Refinance Mega Thread

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JoeJohnson
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JoeJohnson »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:48 am
OrangeKiwi wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:33 am
lurkman wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:27 am P.S. The rate table also offered 2% with about $2750 in credits; we paid a small amount ($680) in points to lower the rate to 1.875%. This turned out to be a sub-optimal choice because the rates fell the evening after we closed. Now Better is offering 1.875% (15 yr) with zero points.
Points are a trade off between money now versus money in the future. I assume the lender knows what they are doing more often than not, and I am worse than the lender at pricing money now vs money in the future. Therefore, I assume I am better off with no points and investing any cash I may have used to buy points in VTI.

I am interested to know if my theory has any holes.
Only that the rate table is not linear. For instance, lurkman has a $3,430 pricing improvement moving up 0.125%. If went up another 0.125% to 2.125%, maybe the pricing would only have improved $1k.

When I have them compete, I sometime does so at a rate with points. Better is particularly easy to work with this way. I had them pricematch a 1.875% offer from Bankrate, then picked a higher rate instead. The offer at that higher rate was more expensive to me, but I knew I was far off from the sweet spot in pricing my loan and I would save more switching rates after.
I am quoting you, BB, because I'd like your thoughts on my concern about serial refinancing. I've certainly benefited from this thread and your contributions as well.

Background: Refinanced 7/2020 from a 4% 30 year to 2.5% 15 year for $350k, <80% LTV. This was better than no-cost, netted me about $500 after lender credits.

I've been watching closely for the last year, and a month ago started the process with Better. But stopped very quickly precisely because Better is so good at showing your different rate options and your break-even period. It's not the break-even period that has me concerned.

It's the extra year of payments.

My current loan has 14 years left at $2321 per month, principal and interest. Better is offering a no-cost refi at 2.25%, which is 0.25% lower than my current rate, payment $2185 per month, saving me $136 per month for 15 years. If I multiply $136 x 12 x 15 I get $24,480, the total savings over the loan period. Or maybe it should only be 14 years. But that's splitting hairs. The real problem is that I have an extra year of payments, which is $26,220.

$26,220-24,480 = 1740

So lowering my rate costs me money. I also don't get as much of a tax deduction.

What am I missing?
You are correct about the extra year being a drag.

Pay the new loan at your current payment of $2,321/month and it will be paid off in less than 14 years
Inframan4712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Inframan4712 »

JoeJohnson wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:39 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:48 am
OrangeKiwi wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:33 am
lurkman wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:27 am P.S. The rate table also offered 2% with about $2750 in credits; we paid a small amount ($680) in points to lower the rate to 1.875%. This turned out to be a sub-optimal choice because the rates fell the evening after we closed. Now Better is offering 1.875% (15 yr) with zero points.
Points are a trade off between money now versus money in the future. I assume the lender knows what they are doing more often than not, and I am worse than the lender at pricing money now vs money in the future. Therefore, I assume I am better off with no points and investing any cash I may have used to buy points in VTI.

I am interested to know if my theory has any holes.
Only that the rate table is not linear. For instance, lurkman has a $3,430 pricing improvement moving up 0.125%. If went up another 0.125% to 2.125%, maybe the pricing would only have improved $1k.

When I have them compete, I sometime does so at a rate with points. Better is particularly easy to work with this way. I had them pricematch a 1.875% offer from Bankrate, then picked a higher rate instead. The offer at that higher rate was more expensive to me, but I knew I was far off from the sweet spot in pricing my loan and I would save more switching rates after.
I am quoting you, BB, because I'd like your thoughts on my concern about serial refinancing. I've certainly benefited from this thread and your contributions as well.

Background: Refinanced 7/2020 from a 4% 30 year to 2.5% 15 year for $350k, <80% LTV. This was better than no-cost, netted me about $500 after lender credits.

I've been watching closely for the last year, and a month ago started the process with Better. But stopped very quickly precisely because Better is so good at showing your different rate options and your break-even period. It's not the break-even period that has me concerned.

It's the extra year of payments.

My current loan has 14 years left at $2321 per month, principal and interest. Better is offering a no-cost refi at 2.25%, which is 0.25% lower than my current rate, payment $2185 per month, saving me $136 per month for 15 years. If I multiply $136 x 12 x 15 I get $24,480, the total savings over the loan period. Or maybe it should only be 14 years. But that's splitting hairs. The real problem is that I have an extra year of payments, which is $26,220.

$26,220-24,480 = 1740

So lowering my rate costs me money. I also don't get as much of a tax deduction.

What am I missing?
You are correct about the extra year being a drag.

Pay the new loan at your current payment of $2,321/month and it will be paid off in less than 14 years
Certainly a good suggestion if the goal is to have a paid off house. So I went and found a mortgage prepayment calculator on the web. If I refinance at 2.25 but continue to make the original payment amount, my house will in fact be paid off a little earlier. But it only saves me about $3500 over that time, out of $330,000. A savings of 1% over 12-14 years. Inflation would easily counterbalance that. Plus the hassle of the refinance. I'll sit tight where I am.

Thanks for the input.
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:55 amCertainly a good suggestion if the goal is to have a paid off house. So I went and found a mortgage prepayment calculator on the web. If I refinance at 2.25 but continue to make the original payment amount, my house will in fact be paid off a little earlier. But it only saves me about $3500 over that time, out of $330,000. A savings of 1% over 12-14 years. Inflation would easily counterbalance that. Plus the hassle of the refinance. I'll sit tight where I am.
That's similar to my situation...a minor decrease in interest rate (if minimizing points), so there was *some* long-term savings to be had, but not enough to get me super-excited about it.

I'll keep monitoring things, though. If rates and/or closing costs get lower, I may jump in again.
Inframan4712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Inframan4712 »

CT-Scott wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:59 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:55 amCertainly a good suggestion if the goal is to have a paid off house. So I went and found a mortgage prepayment calculator on the web. If I refinance at 2.25 but continue to make the original payment amount, my house will in fact be paid off a little earlier. But it only saves me about $3500 over that time, out of $330,000. A savings of 1% over 12-14 years. Inflation would easily counterbalance that. Plus the hassle of the refinance. I'll sit tight where I am.
That's similar to my situation...a minor decrease in interest rate (if minimizing points), so there was *some* long-term savings to be had, but not enough to get me super-excited about it.

I'll keep monitoring things, though. If rates and/or closing costs get lower, I may jump in again.
Makes sense. I did see a couple of posts upthread about an interest-only mortgage for $1.2 million, 5 years at 1.6% with BofA. I'm disciplined enough to park the difference in payment in savings. But I doubt I could get that rate, for my lowly loan amount of $330,000.
KNMLHD
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KNMLHD »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:48 am When I have them compete, I sometime does so at a rate with points. Better is particularly easy to work with this way. I had them pricematch a 1.875% offer from Bankrate, then picked a higher rate instead. The offer at that higher rate was more expensive to me, but I knew I was far off from the sweet spot in pricing my loan and I would save more switching rates after.
Quick question... I haven't been keeping an eye on this thread for a couple months.

So in this scenario, you apply to Better... they respond with a not so great initial offer/rate table. You then return by saying "Hey... I see Better (or Lender Y) is advertising X on Bankrate, can you match that and provide a rate table based off that?"

Are you no longer having to get Loan Estimates from all sorts of lenders in order for Better to match?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 am I am quoting you, BB, because I'd like your thoughts on my concern about serial refinancing. I've certainly benefited from this thread and your contributions as well.

Background: Refinanced 7/2020 from a 4% 30 year to 2.5% 15 year for $350k, <80% LTV. This was better than no-cost, netted me about $500 after lender credits.

I've been watching closely for the last year, and a month ago started the process with Better. But stopped very quickly precisely because Better is so good at showing your different rate options and your break-even period. It's not the break-even period that has me concerned.

It's the extra year of payments.

My current loan has 14 years left at $2321 per month, principal and interest. Better is offering a no-cost refi at 2.25%, which is 0.25% lower than my current rate, payment $2185 per month, saving me $136 per month for 15 years. If I multiply $136 x 12 x 15 I get $24,480, the total savings over the loan period. Or maybe it should only be 14 years. But that's splitting hairs. The real problem is that I have an extra year of payments, which is $26,220.

$26,220-24,480 = 1740

So lowering my rate costs me money. I also don't get as much of a tax deduction.

What am I missing?
Get an amortization calculator that lets you punch in an extra monthly payment and gives a monthly breakdown. Put in your 15-year 2.5% loan and see what the cumulative interest for July 2021 is and subtract that from the listed total interest of the mortgage. That is your remaining interest.

Alternatively, punch in your current principle and 14 years at 2.5%, then adjust to make sure you are using the same monthly payment you already have.

Then punch in the new 2.25% loan at your July 2021 principle balance for 15 years, with $136 as an extra monthly payment. Compare the total interest on this new loan to the remaining interest on the old one.

This is an apples-to-apples comparison using the same payment amount. Then you can see what 2.25% without the extra $136/mo produces as total interest and see if the increased cash flow is worth that cost to you.

Assuming 2.25% remains no-cost to you, I believe you will have a nice chunk of savings, but probably on the order of under $15k savings.

It is easiest to think of these things not as loan X has a payment of Y, but that loan X has a MINIMUM payment of Y, like credit cards have a minimum payment amount. That often helps to not get stuck on the effect of extending the term vs. reducing the rate. As I outlined it above, reducing your rate seems to be a good move here. Whether to then extend the term by not paying $136/mo extra is debatable.
Inframan4712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Inframan4712 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:06 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 am I am quoting you, BB, because I'd like your thoughts on my concern about serial refinancing. I've certainly benefited from this thread and your contributions as well.

Background: Refinanced 7/2020 from a 4% 30 year to 2.5% 15 year for $350k, <80% LTV. This was better than no-cost, netted me about $500 after lender credits.

I've been watching closely for the last year, and a month ago started the process with Better. But stopped very quickly precisely because Better is so good at showing your different rate options and your break-even period. It's not the break-even period that has me concerned.

It's the extra year of payments.

My current loan has 14 years left at $2321 per month, principal and interest. Better is offering a no-cost refi at 2.25%, which is 0.25% lower than my current rate, payment $2185 per month, saving me $136 per month for 15 years. If I multiply $136 x 12 x 15 I get $24,480, the total savings over the loan period. Or maybe it should only be 14 years. But that's splitting hairs. The real problem is that I have an extra year of payments, which is $26,220.

$26,220-24,480 = 1740

So lowering my rate costs me money. I also don't get as much of a tax deduction.

What am I missing?
Get an amortization calculator that lets you punch in an extra monthly payment and gives a monthly breakdown. Put in your 15-year 2.5% loan and see what the cumulative interest for July 2021 is and subtract that from the listed total interest of the mortgage. That is your remaining interest.

Alternatively, punch in your current principle and 14 years at 2.5%, then adjust to make sure you are using the same monthly payment you already have.

Then punch in the new 2.25% loan at your July 2021 principle balance for 15 years, with $136 as an extra monthly payment. Compare the total interest on this new loan to the remaining interest on the old one.

This is an apples-to-apples comparison using the same payment amount. Then you can see what 2.25% without the extra $136/mo produces as total interest and see if the increased cash flow is worth that cost to you.

Assuming 2.25% remains no-cost to you, I believe you will have a nice chunk of savings, but probably on the order of under $15k savings.

It is easiest to think of these things not as loan X has a payment of Y, but that loan X has a MINIMUM payment of Y, like credit cards have a minimum payment amount. That often helps to not get stuck on the effect of extending the term vs. reducing the rate. As I outlined it above, reducing your rate seems to be a good move here. Whether to then extend the term by not paying $136/mo extra is debatable.
Thanks for the reply. I already addressed this in a post just a couple after my first. The difference is $3500 out of $389,000 paid in principal and interest. Not worth the hassle of a refinance. Probably not worth it at all given inflation and the marginal loss of the tax deduction difference. And yes I do benefit from itemizing.

Have you actually done this with all of your refinances? How much will you really have saved over your 15 or 30 year horizon vs just taking one refinance at an attractive rate and starting the clock?

The important thing I want to stress is that the break even point is not what the websites tell you. It’s not the simple calculation of closing costs divided by monthly payment savings. Because your current rate is effectively lower than when you started because you have paid some of the interest. If you refinance and don’t shorten the term you haven’t accomplished much and you may lose money.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 am Thanks for the reply. I already addressed this in a post just a couple after my first. The difference is $3500 out of $389,000 paid in principal and interest. Not worth the hassle of a refinance. Probably not worth it at all given inflation and the marginal loss of the tax deduction difference. And yes I do benefit from itemizing.

Have you actually done this with all of your refinances? How much will you really have saved over your 15 or 30 year horizon vs just taking one refinance at an attractive rate and starting the clock?

The important thing I want to stress is that the break even point is not what the websites tell you. It’s not the simple calculation of closing costs divided by monthly payment savings. Because your current rate is effectively lower than when you started because you have paid some of the interest. If you refinance and don’t shorten the term you haven’t accomplished much and you may lose money.
$3,500 is nothing to sneeze about, but each of us needs to determine how much work/frustrating we are willing to deal for it.

Personally, I would do it since I know Better’s process well and typically after about three or four hours of work, I’m just waiting for closing. But I’m a cookie-cutter customer with a W2 and plenty of taxable and tax-advantaged assets to throw at qualifications. I also don’t list everything. I list one or two big accounts and ignore the rest to avoid needing to send more statements. Also, three of my five Better refis have been with the same loan office, and two with the same processor.

For each of my refis, I’ve walked away with thousands. The profit from them paid for my solar system (10 kW), new gutters, and this one will pay some of my new windows being installed in August.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:46 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 am The difference is $3500
$3,500 is nothing to sneeze about
I just punched in the numbers into my amortization spreadsheet and I get different numbers than you. I used Aug 1 as the first payment on the new mortgage vs July 1st and assumed your first payment was Aug 1, 2020. That way, exactly one year's worth of payments would be applied.

I got $9,289.87 interest paid out of $69,875.68 total, leaving $60,585.81 of interest left on the existing 2.5% mortgage at 14 more years of $2,321.26/mo payments.

Taking the $327,238.49 that would be outstanding on Aug 1, 2021, and making an extra $177.57/mo payment to make a 2.25% payment of $2,143.69 become a $2,321.26 payment, total interest over 164 payments = $53,310.88, giving a $7,275 difference.

Now I'm using the details you gave in the prior post to determine these "exact" amounts, but that is over a 2x difference. Did I misread/miscalculate something, did you have a typo in the prior post, or did you make a miscalculation?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 am Have you actually done this with all of your refinances? How much will you really have saved over your 15 or 30 year horizon vs just taking one refinance at an attractive rate and starting the clock?

The important thing I want to stress is that the break even point is not what the websites tell you. It’s not the simple calculation of closing costs divided by monthly payment savings. Because your current rate is effectively lower than when you started because you have paid some of the interest. If you refinance and don’t shorten the term you haven’t accomplished much and you may lose money.
Refi 1 = $50 profit
Refi 2 = $7,250 profit
Refi 3 = $3,600 profit
Refi 4 = $1,600 profit
Refi 5 = TBD

I also refi'd back in 2012.

For the purposes of this, I am going to ignore all the above profit and treat all the refis as 100% no-cost refis. I am also going to ignore the 2012 refi and use the rate I lowered to in 2012 as the rate from the beginning. This is just so I focus on the last year of serial refinancing.

So, original 30 year with original rate and balance - interest already paid between the "original" and current mortgage - remaining payments on 15 year with current rate = 5 years saved (25 years total) and $25k saved. Again, that's taking into account the years of interest paid at the higher rate and 30 year term.

So yes, slicing it with some generous numbers against (vs. for) my pocketbook, I saved a large chunk of change. Add in the profit from the refis and I even more ahead. This is all with a mortgage less than half the size of yours, so the dollar amounts would be bigger if I used your numbers instead.

Please note, I am not trying to be argumentative with these details. Just trying to paint a clear picture. I don't think you were speaking negatively and I hope I am not coming off that way. I am an engineer, so I'm just used to "showing my work".
:sharebeer
Inframan4712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Inframan4712 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:00 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:46 am
Inframan4712 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 am The difference is $3500
$3,500 is nothing to sneeze about
I just punched in the numbers into my amortization spreadsheet and I get different numbers than you. I used Aug 1 as the first payment on the new mortgage vs July 1st and assumed your first payment was Aug 1, 2020. That way, exactly one year's worth of payments would be applied.

I got $9,289.87 interest paid out of $69,875.68 total, leaving $60,585.81 of interest left on the existing 2.5% mortgage at 14 more years of $2,321.26/mo payments.

Taking the $327,238.49 that would be outstanding on Aug 1, 2021, and making an extra $177.57/mo payment to make a 2.25% payment of $2,143.69 become a $2,321.26 payment, total interest over 164 payments = $53,310.88, giving a $7,275 difference.

Now I'm using the details you gave in the prior post to determine these "exact" amounts, but that is over a 2x difference. Did I misread/miscalculate something, did you have a typo in the prior post, or did you make a miscalculation?
I also have an engineering background and do appreciate your showing your work and no offense taken.

Note that Better has my payment difference as $136 not $177.

My first payment was July 1, 2020.
Also, Better has me refinancing $330k. It might be $327k by the time it closes but it’s hard to time those things.

I don’t have your spreadsheet in front of me and so it’s hard to compare to the website I used which showed $389000 in total payments of principal and interest of $2185 each over 15 years. Adding in $136 per month on this same website gives a total of $385,XXX over 14 years for a difference of roughly $3500.

Perhaps the website is wrong. Edit: it’s on bankrate.com so not likely wrong but you and I have some different inputs or your spreadsheet has a problem.
thrillhou
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by thrillhou »

I really like
https://www.calculator.net/mortgage-pay ... lator.html
for seeing the amortization and easily being able to turn on and off extra payments.
Inframan4712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Inframan4712 »

thrillhou wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:21 pm I really like
https://www.calculator.net/mortgage-pay ... lator.html
for seeing the amortization and easily being able to turn on and off extra payments.
Thank you for the link. Here is what I get:

(If I don't refinance)

Normal loan repayment without extra payments:

Monthly Pay $2,320.43
Total Payments $417,676.76
Total Interest $69,676.76
Remaining Payments $389,831.64
Remaining Interest $61,197.66

-------------------------
(If I refinance and pay extra each month to keep the same payment)

The remaining balance is $328,000.00. By paying extra $172.00 per month, the loan will be paid off in 13 years and 9 months. It is 1 year and 3 months earlier. This results in savings of $5,322.21 in interest.

If Pay Extra $172.00 per month
Monthly Pay $2,320.68
Total Payments $381,439.84
Total Interest $53,439.84

------------

I can't figure out why it says a savings of "5322.21 in interest"
but the difference in Remaining Interest of $61.197 - $52,439 does not equal that figure.

So, a savings of $5-8k over 14 years. Not nothing. Decisions, decisions...

Really enjoyed the discussion. Thanks to all.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Inframan4712 wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:54 am I can't figure out why it says a savings of "5322.21 in interest"
but the difference in Remaining Interest of $61.197 - $52,439 does not equal that figure.

So, a savings of $5-8k over 14 years. Not nothing. Decisions, decisions...

Really enjoyed the discussion. Thanks to all.
IMO, most people in the US focus on cash-flow vs. real costs (what do you want your car payment to be vs. how much are you willing to spend). These calculators focus on simple calculations like payment differences, which don’t tell the whole story.

It is simpler to say (and easier for many folks to understand) payment A is $X and payment B is $X + $20, so over 5 years, your savings are $20 x $5. But when we look at large dollar amount like a 15 year mortgage, how much we are paying in interest between the two is not $20/mo.

So if you do the underlying calculations and compare the interest itself, you find the simpler calculation above under-reports the savings.

Similarly, you find some tools simplify it further and don’t consider the term extension and would compare 14 years of payments vs. 15 years of payments.

Overall, this is my I prefer the Vertex spreadsheets. Punch in your details and tweak things as you need. Since you can directly work with the raw data, you can do an analysis on whatever level of detail you prefer. In my spreadsheet, I create a tab for each loan option and it’s full amortization table. Then I have a summary tab that pulls info from these other tabs. That makes it very easy to compare specific details between them.
thrillhou
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by thrillhou »

I think I'm in agreement with BB, but I'll reiterate at risk of just repeating what BB wrote. To me, the choices for the OP is to not refi and pay a total of $389,831.64 and be finished in 14 years.
https://www.calculator.net/mortgage-pay ... 3#loanterm

Or, refi and pay the new monthly payment and pay a total of $386,762.05 for the new 15 year loan -- a savings of ~$3.1k. Or, continue paying the current monthly amount, and pay a total of $381,439.84 for the new loan (and be finished in 13 yr 9 mo) -- a saving of ~$8.4k compared to current loan.
https://www.calculator.net/mortgage-pay ... 9#loanterm

In a similar personal situation, and I have my own custom spreadsheet too ;) , and I notice a big decrease in savings each month that goes by.
(running the numbers here... making the current status on original loan 13 yr 11 mo: that total is $387,511.22. So now, there's only ~$0.8k or ~$6.1k in savings by refiing)
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

For those who refinanced with Better.com, were you able to negotiate down the title insurance fees?

We already refinanced once this year with AimLoan and the title insurance fees were around $950.

We now got a great quote with Better.com, but they want $3200 for title insurance!

How can we "shop around" for title insurance? Any advice? Thanks!
new
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by new »

Can someone tell me what the general consensus is for choosing a 15 vs. 30 year refinance?

What are the best quotes you are getting these days for both term options? Is it without points and a true no cost refinance?

Thank you!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

apres_all_day wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:48 pm For those who refinanced with Better.com, were you able to negotiate down the title insurance fees?

We already refinanced once this year with AimLoan and the title insurance fees were around $950.

We now got a great quote with Better.com, but they want $3200 for title insurance!

How can we "shop around" for title insurance? Any advice? Thanks!
If they service your state, get a quote from Radian. If they are cheaper and your report is not back yet, you’ll likely just switch Radian. If you share the quote after your title report gets back, they may just match the quote by increasing your lender credits/reduce your points by the difference.

Better Settlement Services does NC and they’ve matched every time I sent competing title quotes except for the one time we sent it before my report came in. So that time, we just used Radian.
ensign_lee
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

apres_all_day wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:48 pm For those who refinanced with Better.com, were you able to negotiate down the title insurance fees?

We already refinanced once this year with AimLoan and the title insurance fees were around $950.

We now got a great quote with Better.com, but they want $3200 for title insurance!

How can we "shop around" for title insurance? Any advice? Thanks!
You don't really negotiate them down so much as you bring your own title insurance company and Better will either get their company to match or use yours. I used Radian in TX and it saved me several hundred $.

As far as shopping around, you just start calling Title companies and seeing what they've got lol. It was kind of a weird experience. I'd highly recommend Radian - they operate in most states; the call took only about 30 minutes.

Also, heads up - at least here in TX, if your last refinance/original finance was within 12 months, the cost drops by about half.
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

FWIW - Better Mortgage has some GREAT 15-yr refinance rates listed on Bankrate.com. 1.75% w/ low points.

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/15-y ... nce-rates/

Fill in your zip code, property value, and loan amount.

The trick is not to necessarily accept the 1.75% w/ low points. Rather, use a screenshot of the Bankrate page to get Better.com to match their advertised rate on Bankrate. (Remember to include date/timestamp from your computer in screenshot)

Once they match the rate, your entire rate table (on better.com portal) updates and you are now shown 2.0%, 2.125%, 2.25% rates w/ lender credits. Select the rate that gives you a no-cost refi and BINGO!
BeerTooth
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BeerTooth »

Better.com does not currently write loans in New Hampshire, so I can't take advantage of these deals.

The best rates I'm seeing on a 15-year refi are 2.5% no-cost, or 2.25% with $1700 closing costs.

Anyone recently refi'd in NH and have any recommendations on other lenders to apply with?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mceagle555 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am FWIW - Better Mortgage has some GREAT 15-yr refinance rates listed on Bankrate.com. 1.75% w/ low points.

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/15-y ... nce-rates/

Fill in your zip code, property value, and loan amount.

The trick is not to necessarily accept the 1.75% w/ low points. Rather, use a screenshot of the Bankrate page to get Better.com to match their advertised rate on Bankrate. (Remember to include date/timestamp from your computer in screenshot)

Once they match the rate, your entire rate table (on better.com portal) updates and you are now shown 2.0%, 2.125%, 2.25% rates w/ lender credits. Select the rate that gives you a no-cost refi and BINGO!
This is how I did my current refi with Better. In the past, I've had them do the same with competing offers elsewhere. It's a great way of doing better (pun not intended) than a straight match.
FS51
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FS51 »

BeerTooth wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:06 pm Better.com does not currently write loans in New Hampshire, so I can't take advantage of these deals.

The best rates I'm seeing on a 15-year refi are 2.5% no-cost, or 2.25% with $1700 closing costs.

Anyone recently refi'd in NH and have any recommendations on other lenders to apply with?
I've been happy with Lenderfi although rates tend to be slightly higher than better.com right now. I'm also in a state where better does not write loans.
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

Follow up on my post about shopping for title insurance services.

Better.com gave me a great deal yesterday on a 30-yr loan: 2.75% paying $400 for a point. 2.875% was offered with $4K in credits.

However, Better’s title fees are atrocious:
Title-Closing Protection Letter: $50
Title-Lenders Title Insurance: $3177
Title-Search Abstract: $100
Title-Settlement Fee: $500
Total: $3827 :shock:

I emailed Radian for a price quote, ClientRelations@radian.com

Radian will ask for amount borrowed, property address, and lender.

I got the following price quote:
Deed prep: $100
Settlement fee: $450
Closing protection letter: $50
Lenders title insurance: $580
Total: $1180

Just saved myself $2700 by writing a two minute email. Better.com has no issues switching me to Radian.
apres_all_day
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

FS51 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:26 pm
BeerTooth wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:06 pm Better.com does not currently write loans in New Hampshire, so I can't take advantage of these deals.

The best rates I'm seeing on a 15-year refi are 2.5% no-cost, or 2.25% with $1700 closing costs.

Anyone recently refi'd in NH and have any recommendations on other lenders to apply with?
I've been happy with Lenderfi although rates tend to be slightly higher than better.com right now. I'm also in a state where better does not write loans.
LenderFi seems to be significantly higher than Better right now. AimLoan is somewhere in the middle.

We literally wrapped up a refinance last month with AimLoan at 3.125%, I’ve only made one mortgage payment. We couldn’t pass up Better.com’s offer of 2.75%, even though it’s costing us around $2100 out of pocket. We have a high balance conforming loan, so the interest savings are real.
boston85
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by boston85 »

I am trying to figure out whether to refinance or not. Currently 1 year into a 10/1 ARM at 2.625%. Remaining balance is $1.02M and home value is $1.45M per recent appraisal as part of HELOC process.

It looks like I could get down to around 2.875% on a 30 year, maybe 2.75 with points. While I don't really want to increase the rate, I am trying to think about 9 years from now when my rate resets. I have to imagine I don't be able to get anywhere near my current rate. So I feel like 2.75 or 2.875 for 30 years is better than 2.625 for 9 years and then who knows what after that. Thankfully at least now DW and I are in a pretty good spot where 9 years from now we should be able to pay off almost all of the mortgage and significantly reduce the balance that we have to refinance. Still though I feel like even if I do increase rate now, 10 years from now I will look back at how great it was that I have a mortgage at 2.875%
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

boston85 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:24 am I am trying to figure out whether to refinance or not. Currently 1 year into a 10/1 ARM at 2.625%. Remaining balance is $1.02M and home value is $1.45M per recent appraisal as part of HELOC process.

It looks like I could get down to around 2.875% on a 30 year, maybe 2.75 with points. While I don't really want to increase the rate, I am trying to think about 9 years from now when my rate resets. I have to imagine I don't be able to get anywhere near my current rate. So I feel like 2.75 or 2.875 for 30 years is better than 2.625 for 9 years and then who knows what after that. Thankfully at least now DW and I are in a pretty good spot where 9 years from now we should be able to pay off almost all of the mortgage and significantly reduce the balance that we have to refinance. Still though I feel like even if I do increase rate now, 10 years from now I will look back at how great it was that I have a mortgage at 2.875%
I am not recommending you do this, but have you thought of carrying the existing ARM until your balance comes down to the conforming limit for your zip code and then refinancing? I haven't really tracked the jumbo market, but for much of the past year it has suffered from a lack of "liquidity" and thus, offered higher rates than the confirming market.

Basically, consider how much extra interest you will pay at a higher rate on your entire balance vs. what it would be down the road. But none of us have a crystal ball to know what that down the road rate will be.

Additionally, if you happen to be in California, previous commenters in this thread have found some great deals, even as a jumbo, from providers that focus on that market.
jay22
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jay22 »

Locked 2.75% for a 30 year fixed with no points and enough credit to cover the closing costs with Better.com. Good company to work with - the process was pretty straight forward and seamless.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jay22 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:23 pm Locked 2.75% for a 30 year fixed with no points and enough credit to cover the closing costs with Better.com. Good company to work with - the process was pretty straight forward and seamless.
Congrats!

For those keeping track, I got my closing disclosures from Better. 18 days, though now we wait for closing.

Looking at around $2k profit after costs, plus a massive cash out (larger than my current balance) that will be partially put into VTI.
jay22
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jay22 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:35 pm
jay22 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:23 pm Locked 2.75% for a 30 year fixed with no points and enough credit to cover the closing costs with Better.com. Good company to work with - the process was pretty straight forward and seamless.
Congrats!

For those keeping track, I got my closing disclosures from Better. 18 days, though now we wait for closing.

Looking at around $2k profit after costs, plus a massive cash out (larger than my current balance) that will be partially put into VTI.
I was hoping for 2.625% but glad I was able to lock at 2.75%. Don't think I would need to refi again at these rates! :D
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:47 pm Follow up on my post about shopping for title insurance services.

However, Better’s title fees are atrocious:
Title-Closing Protection Letter: $50
Title-Lenders Title Insurance: $3177
Title-Search Abstract: $100
Title-Settlement Fee: $500
Total: $3827 :shock:
Must vary by state. I closed with Better two weeks ago:

Title-Attorney Fee: $410
Title-Closing Protection Letter: $50
Title-Coordination Fee: $100
Title-Doc prep fee: $55
Title-Lenders Title Insurance: $1098
Title-Search Abstract: $150
Total: $1863
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jay22 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:50 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:35 pm
jay22 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:23 pm Locked 2.75% for a 30 year fixed with no points and enough credit to cover the closing costs with Better.com. Good company to work with - the process was pretty straight forward and seamless.
Congrats!

For those keeping track, I got my closing disclosures from Better. 18 days, though now we wait for closing.

Looking at around $2k profit after costs, plus a massive cash out (larger than my current balance) that will be partially put into VTI.
I was hoping for 2.625% but glad I was able to lock at 2.75%. Don't think I would need to refi again at these rates! :D
You say that, but just you wait. I said that last year and I’m on refi #5, with already planning there to be a #6.
jay22
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jay22 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:05 pm
jay22 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:50 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:35 pm
jay22 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:23 pm Locked 2.75% for a 30 year fixed with no points and enough credit to cover the closing costs with Better.com. Good company to work with - the process was pretty straight forward and seamless.
Congrats!

For those keeping track, I got my closing disclosures from Better. 18 days, though now we wait for closing.

Looking at around $2k profit after costs, plus a massive cash out (larger than my current balance) that will be partially put into VTI.
I was hoping for 2.625% but glad I was able to lock at 2.75%. Don't think I would need to refi again at these rates! :D
You say that, but just you wait. I said that last year and I’m on refi #5, with already planning there to be a #6.
One can only hope!
e5116
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by e5116 »

Not sure this is the most applicable thread but thought I'd provide a datapoint in case somebody searches for it in the future....

I refi'ed with LenderFi last year, which was immediately transferred/serviced by AmeriHome. I recently was able to remove my escrow account. I had to have escrow to get my 2.5% rate (for 25-year). So, wasn't too bad to simply have to wait basically 6 payments....Not sure the criteria they used -- it was pretty opaque and I had to wait several weeks for them to waive it. But glad that I didn't have to keep escrow forever! And for my absurd property tax rates (IL...) that is a big deal.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

e5116 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:20 pm Not sure this is the most applicable thread but thought I'd provide a datapoint in case somebody searches for it in the future....

I refi'ed with LenderFi last year, which was immediately transferred/serviced by AmeriHome. I recently was able to remove my escrow account. I had to have escrow to get my 2.5% rate (for 25-year). So, wasn't too bad to simply have to wait basically 6 payments....Not sure the criteria they used -- it was pretty opaque and I had to wait several weeks for them to waive it. But glad that I didn't have to keep escrow forever! And for my absurd property tax rates (IL...) that is a big deal.
Sweet! Just a note though that if your servicing is ever sold to someone else from AmeriHome, you may need to apply again. When one of my loans was at TMS, it got the escrow waived. When it got to Mr Cooper, the escrow was back. MrC made me wait another 90 days before I could apply to waive it.
RJC
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by RJC »

apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:47 pm Follow up on my post about shopping for title insurance services.

Better.com gave me a great deal yesterday on a 30-yr loan: 2.75% paying $400 for a point. 2.875% was offered with $4K in credits.

However, Better’s title fees are atrocious:
Title-Closing Protection Letter: $50
Title-Lenders Title Insurance: $3177
Title-Search Abstract: $100
Title-Settlement Fee: $500
Total: $3827 :shock:

I emailed Radian for a price quote, ClientRelations@radian.com

Radian will ask for amount borrowed, property address, and lender.

I got the following price quote:
Deed prep: $100
Settlement fee: $450
Closing protection letter: $50
Lenders title insurance: $580
Total: $1180

Just saved myself $2700 by writing a two minute email. Better.com has no issues switching me to Radian.
How is that possible? I just closed with Better and their Title-Lenders Title Insurance was $605.
RJC
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by RJC »

Just closed with Better in 19 days and it was the most frictionless process ever. Just filled out a few forms, uploaded about 5 documents, and the rest was automated.

It was a 15-year refi at 1.875% (no points).
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

Similar to BrandonBogle (Kudos for your participation in the thread!), I'm currently midway through my 4th refinance with Better.com

I've lowered my rate between .125% & .25% each time, pocketing at least $1K each time at closing. Super simple and great company to work with.
jay22
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jay22 »

RJC wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:01 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:47 pm Follow up on my post about shopping for title insurance services.

Better.com gave me a great deal yesterday on a 30-yr loan: 2.75% paying $400 for a point. 2.875% was offered with $4K in credits.

However, Better’s title fees are atrocious:
Title-Closing Protection Letter: $50
Title-Lenders Title Insurance: $3177
Title-Search Abstract: $100
Title-Settlement Fee: $500
Total: $3827 :shock:

I emailed Radian for a price quote, ClientRelations@radian.com

Radian will ask for amount borrowed, property address, and lender.

I got the following price quote:
Deed prep: $100
Settlement fee: $450
Closing protection letter: $50
Lenders title insurance: $580
Total: $1180

Just saved myself $2700 by writing a two minute email. Better.com has no issues switching me to Radian.
How is that possible? I just closed with Better and their Title-Lenders Title Insurance was $605.
It must be state specific. Here's what I paid for refi in CA with Better:

Title - Lender's title insurance $475
Title - Notary fee $90
Title - Settlement fee $450
Astronaut4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Astronaut4 »

I can’t make inquiries just yet, but will have this scenario after closing purchase loan. Looking for opinions.
810 FICO
Appraisal $517k
Loan balance to refinance $377k
Looking to reduce interest rate of 3.25%
Would taking $36k cash out impact the lower rate I’m seeking in a negative or positive way?
Stormfloatter
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Stormfloatter »

I am looking to refinance from an fha loan

Current loan:
Monthly payment: 2639
Rate: 3.0
Mortgage insurance included in payment 227( will fall of in 10 years)
29 years left
Balance 345000

New Loan:
Monthly payment: 2310
Ltv: 70%
Rate: 2.875%
New Loan Amount: 350000 ( rolling in closing cost - lender credit
30 years
Will get back 2500 from current escrow.
Will not have to make 2 Mortgage payments

2639+2639+2500 = 7778

Increase in loan amounts: 5000

Net: 2778

Am I calculating the net to me correctly? I was thinking to immediately pay that amount back into the loan, but I think I will pay a credit card balance.

Does the above make sense. Is it worth it to restart the amortization schedule? Looking just at the payment it would seem that I am doing good, but I am afraid I missed something.
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

mceagle555 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:40 am Similar to BrandonBogle (Kudos for your participation in the thread!), I'm currently midway through my 4th refinance with Better.com

I've lowered my rate between .125% & .25% each time, pocketing at least $1K each time at closing. Super simple and great company to work with.
How long do you have to wait to refinance again with Better?

We are currently in our first refinance with Better. If rates dip later this year, I'd love to go again for another refinance!
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

apres_all_day wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:04 am
mceagle555 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:40 am Similar to BrandonBogle (Kudos for your participation in the thread!), I'm currently midway through my 4th refinance with Better.com

I've lowered my rate between .125% & .25% each time, pocketing at least $1K each time at closing. Super simple and great company to work with.
How long do you have to wait to refinance again with Better?

We are currently in our first refinance with Better. If rates dip later this year, I'd love to go again for another refinance!
I've done all 4 of mine within the last 8 months. They don't have any language I've seen as far as waiting time...though I haven't necessarily publicized it to them each time I've switched.

That all being said, I've made sure that I had a compelling reason (something other than pocketing $$ at closing) to refi again. For example: Moving from a 30yr to a 15yr; lowering rate from 2.375% to 2.25%; etc... I personally wouldn't think it would look good to refi to a higher rate, simply to pocket $$ at closing.
drizzleray
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drizzleray »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:23 pm
e5116 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:20 pm Not sure this is the most applicable thread but thought I'd provide a datapoint in case somebody searches for it in the future....

I refi'ed with LenderFi last year, which was immediately transferred/serviced by AmeriHome. I recently was able to remove my escrow account. I had to have escrow to get my 2.5% rate (for 25-year). So, wasn't too bad to simply have to wait basically 6 payments....Not sure the criteria they used -- it was pretty opaque and I had to wait several weeks for them to waive it. But glad that I didn't have to keep escrow forever! And for my absurd property tax rates (IL...) that is a big deal.
Sweet! Just a note though that if your servicing is ever sold to someone else from AmeriHome, you may need to apply again. When one of my loans was at TMS, it got the escrow waived. When it got to Mr Cooper, the escrow was back. MrC made me wait another 90 days before I could apply to waive it.
What was the process to remove escrow at Mr. Cooper?
lurkman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lurkman »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:23 pm
e5116 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:20 pm Not sure this is the most applicable thread but thought I'd provide a datapoint in case somebody searches for it in the future....

I refi'ed with LenderFi last year, which was immediately transferred/serviced by AmeriHome. I recently was able to remove my escrow account. I had to have escrow to get my 2.5% rate (for 25-year). So, wasn't too bad to simply have to wait basically 6 payments....Not sure the criteria they used -- it was pretty opaque and I had to wait several weeks for them to waive it. But glad that I didn't have to keep escrow forever! And for my absurd property tax rates (IL...) that is a big deal.
Sweet! Just a note though that if your servicing is ever sold to someone else from AmeriHome, you may need to apply again. When one of my loans was at TMS, it got the escrow waived. When it got to Mr Cooper, the escrow was back. MrC made me wait another 90 days before I could apply to waive it.

Interesting. So a no-escrow mortgage loan can be made escrow-mandatory after it is sold to some new servicing company?

Since you were able to remove escrow with Mr. Cooper, does it mean their default is escrow-mandatory but they have a process to remove escrow for the no-escrow loans that they buy?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

drizzleray wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:22 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:23 pm
e5116 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:20 pm Not sure this is the most applicable thread but thought I'd provide a datapoint in case somebody searches for it in the future....

I refi'ed with LenderFi last year, which was immediately transferred/serviced by AmeriHome. I recently was able to remove my escrow account. I had to have escrow to get my 2.5% rate (for 25-year). So, wasn't too bad to simply have to wait basically 6 payments....Not sure the criteria they used -- it was pretty opaque and I had to wait several weeks for them to waive it. But glad that I didn't have to keep escrow forever! And for my absurd property tax rates (IL...) that is a big deal.
Sweet! Just a note though that if your servicing is ever sold to someone else from AmeriHome, you may need to apply again. When one of my loans was at TMS, it got the escrow waived. When it got to Mr Cooper, the escrow was back. MrC made me wait another 90 days before I could apply to waive it.
What was the process to remove escrow at Mr. Cooper?
It was a form I needed to request. But before those 90 days were up, I refinanced again.
lurkman wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:40 am Interesting. So a no-escrow mortgage loan can be made escrow-mandatory after it is sold to some new servicing company?

Since you were able to remove escrow with Mr. Cooper, does it mean their default is escrow-mandatory but they have a process to remove escrow for the no-escrow loans that they buy?
Negative. This was an escrow mortgage that I then got the escrow waived when it was serviced by TMS. When TMS sold servicing to Mr Cooper, the waiver no longer applied and I had an escrow again.

In my no-escrow mortgages, servicing changes didn’t affect that.

Basically, when the servicing changed, the new servicer went back to what my mortgage note had, which included having an escrow.
Krautz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Krautz »

Hello Everyone!

Been following these boards for a few months now, learning as much as I can. Yesterday Mr Kraut & I attempted to get a refinance with Better & while approved, they are refusing to adjust their APR to the one they promoted on bankrate.com, even when submitting a screenshot.

Our LO initially told us that they cannot match because we chose a 60 day close. We did not, there was nothing in application process allowing us to choose how long to close. This was fine on their end.

Then we were told that their system set the 60 day time period because we have a HELOC (zero balance, never used) that we are keeping. We were told this delays processing because of subordination rules.

Then we were told their pricing team would review our better APR off bankrates site. We just received this email reply:
“The pricing team let me know that we do not match advertised APR on bankrate because it takes into account different considerations than the specific numbers we have on file from you. They can only match points, and because the 2.375% is being offered with credits in the portal they will not be able to make any adjustments.”

I have seen other members post they have success with Better matching their rates on Bankrate. Did we just get unlucky with our Better LO? Any advice on how to proceed?

Thank you in advance for replies! This is my first post, please accept my apologies if my post is ill written or formatted.
Mrs.K
lurkman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lurkman »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am
drizzleray wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:22 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:23 pm
e5116 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:20 pm Not sure this is the most applicable thread but thought I'd provide a datapoint in case somebody searches for it in the future....

I refi'ed with LenderFi last year, which was immediately transferred/serviced by AmeriHome. I recently was able to remove my escrow account. I had to have escrow to get my 2.5% rate (for 25-year). So, wasn't too bad to simply have to wait basically 6 payments....Not sure the criteria they used -- it was pretty opaque and I had to wait several weeks for them to waive it. But glad that I didn't have to keep escrow forever! And for my absurd property tax rates (IL...) that is a big deal.
Sweet! Just a note though that if your servicing is ever sold to someone else from AmeriHome, you may need to apply again. When one of my loans was at TMS, it got the escrow waived. When it got to Mr Cooper, the escrow was back. MrC made me wait another 90 days before I could apply to waive it.
What was the process to remove escrow at Mr. Cooper?
It was a form I needed to request. But before those 90 days were up, I refinanced again.
lurkman wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:40 am Interesting. So a no-escrow mortgage loan can be made escrow-mandatory after it is sold to some new servicing company?

Since you were able to remove escrow with Mr. Cooper, does it mean their default is escrow-mandatory but they have a process to remove escrow for the no-escrow loans that they buy?
Negative. This was an escrow mortgage that I then got the escrow waived when it was serviced by TMS. When TMS sold servicing to Mr Cooper, the waiver no longer applied and I had an escrow again.

In my no-escrow mortgages, servicing changes didn’t affect that.

Basically, when the servicing changed, the new servicer went back to what my mortgage note had, which included having an escrow.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
mceagle555
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

Krautz wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:32 am Hello Everyone!

Been following these boards for a few months now, learning as much as I can. Yesterday Mr Kraut & I attempted to get a refinance with Better & while approved, they are refusing to adjust their APR to the one they promoted on bankrate.com, even when submitting a screenshot.

Our LO initially told us that they cannot match because we chose a 60 day close. We did not, there was nothing in application process allowing us to choose how long to close. This was fine on their end.

Then we were told that their system set the 60 day time period because we have a HELOC (zero balance, never used) that we are keeping. We were told this delays processing because of subordination rules.

Then we were told their pricing team would review our better APR off bankrates site. We just received this email reply:
“The pricing team let me know that we do not match advertised APR on bankrate because it takes into account different considerations than the specific numbers we have on file from you. They can only match points, and because the 2.375% is being offered with credits in the portal they will not be able to make any adjustments.”

I have seen other members post they have success with Better matching their rates on Bankrate. Did we just get unlucky with our Better LO? Any advice on how to proceed?

Thank you in advance for replies! This is my first post, please accept my apologies if my post is ill written or formatted.
Mrs.K
I think you correctly identified that the HELOC is what is causing the issues. There are a WIDE variety of factors that affect the rate you can get, the main ones being credit score, zip code, amount of loan, etc...

Better does a great job matching their OWN rate on Bankrate.com (I had them do it 3 days ago.)

Is there a reason you need the HELOC with a $0 open? Why not close it and then go through with your refi?
wootwoot
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot »

Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
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