How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

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Da5id
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

Post by Da5id »

visualguy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:13 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:01 pm I also think that sorting out percentage of equities of any type and having a good savings rate are the two most important things for people starting their investing journey.
The equities you choose do matter a lot, though. I started my investing journey almost 30 years ago, and I would have been in a MUCH worse financial situation now if I had invested a high percentage (such as market cap) in ex-US indexing rather than 100% US as I've done. For those who expect things to be different over the next 30 years, make sure you have good reasons for believing in whatever you're indexing (such as Europe/Japan with ex-US) because your choice on this can easily matter a lot to your end result.
I also started out 30 years ago. Was all US stocks until about 6 years ago. Having retired early and pondered my investments I decided that diversifying my risks away from all US was a good choice. Not one everyone has to make, but IMO a good idea. I find the overwhelming confidence some express that the US will outperform come what may unreasonable personally. But if it's does, well it is 60% of my portfolio.
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

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A contentious post was removed. Stay respectful to each other.
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anon_investor
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

Post by anon_investor »

40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:02 pm
anon_investor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:57 pm
40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:55 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:50 pm
40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:41 pm I don't care if you have up to 20% International, as Bogle suggests. It's the maniacs who have 50% International because they thought they would outsmart everyone. Turns out they just played themselves
Why would you care how anyone else invests? How does it change your life?

I have opinions about better and worse investment choices as do we all. But calling people who make different choices than you maniacs is uncivil IMO. And probably not very persuasive to those trying to figure things out, if you care about persuading rather than belittling.
Just trying to help people out who may be in the beginning of their investing journey.
I started off a couple of decades ago VFINX and chill, it works...
That's my plan. I'm using VTSAX, but it's basically the same as VFIAX
I actually switched over to VTSAX later on. So I like your plan! :sharebeer
jibantik
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

Post by jibantik »

40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:55 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:50 pm
40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:41 pm I don't care if you have up to 20% International, as Bogle suggests. It's the maniacs who have 50% International because they thought they would outsmart everyone. Turns out they just played themselves
Why would you care how anyone else invests? How does it change your life?

I have opinions about better and worse investment choices as do we all. But calling people who make different choices than you maniacs is uncivil IMO. And probably not very persuasive to those trying to figure things out, if you care about persuading rather than belittling.
Just trying to help people out who may be in the beginning of their investing journey.
This is like being in bizzaro world. Someone who speculates by overweighting certain segments of the market is calling other people maniacs who think they can outsmart everyone...

How obtuse can you be? People who do not try to pick winners in the market are specifically not trying outsmart everyone... that's the whole point

:oops: :oops: :oops:
Northern Flicker
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

Post by Northern Flicker »

40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:47 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:57 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:47 pm
40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:07 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:34 am

The latest along these lines,

"Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Invests $500 Million In Brazilian Challenger Nubank" link

"Buffett's company also has StoneCo, a Brazil-based digital payments firm, among its tech investments in the region."
What does Buffett investing in one particular international company have to do with anything? Nobody here is Warren Buffett. We are Index Investors. Period.
It is a response to postings about Mr. Buffett's views on so-called American exceptionalism that justify US-only portfolios. Berkshire is a large institutional investor that has the resources to hold a well diversified portfolio of individual stocks. Most retail investors do not, so that index funds are more appropriate.

Thus, discussions about Berkshire investments will center on individual stocks, not index funds. The referenced articles show that global diversification is now a part of Berkshire's portfolio. That Berkshire builds its portfolio out of individual stocks rather than index funds is an orthogonal issue.
+1 Nicely done.
Internationalists justify their 50% ex-US portfolios by pointing toward a couple of international stocks specially selected by Buffett & Co.
Sorry, [disrespectful comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy], you're going to have to try harder than that to convince us. Even Buffett is not buying it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/warren- ... funds.html
So, 0% and 50% are the only possible allocations to int'l stocks? I can see how believing that would lead someone to miss the diversication opportunity. I'm not suggesting it is a terrible error to have a US-only portfolio, but that int'l stocks offer a diversification opportunity. Even Berkshire no longer holds a US-only portfolio.
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

Post by Mel Lindauer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 pm
40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:47 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:57 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:47 pm
40 Years' Gatherin's wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:07 pm

What does Buffett investing in one particular international company have to do with anything? Nobody here is Warren Buffett. We are Index Investors. Period.
It is a response to postings about Mr. Buffett's views on so-called American exceptionalism that justify US-only portfolios. Berkshire is a large institutional investor that has the resources to hold a well diversified portfolio of individual stocks. Most retail investors do not, so that index funds are more appropriate.

Thus, discussions about Berkshire investments will center on individual stocks, not index funds. The referenced articles show that global diversification is now a part of Berkshire's portfolio. That Berkshire builds its portfolio out of individual stocks rather than index funds is an orthogonal issue.
+1 Nicely done.
Internationalists justify their 50% ex-US portfolios by pointing toward a couple of international stocks specially selected by Buffett & Co.
Sorry, [disrespectful comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy], you're going to have to try harder than that to convince us. Even Buffett is not buying it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/warren- ... funds.html
So, 0% and 50% are the only possible allocations to int'l stocks? I can see how believing that would lead someone to miss the diversication opportunity. I'm not suggesting it is a terrible error to have a US-only portfolio, but that int'l stocks offer a diversification opportunity. Even Berkshire no longer holds a US-only portfolio.
Just playing devil's advocate by pointing out that Warren isn't buying the exUS "haystack". Rather, he's being very selective by picking a few individual stocks from various countries, which he's proved to be very adept at. Huge difference, since for most exUS investors, it's an "all-or-nothing" choice (to buy the haystack or not).
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
Northern Flicker
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

Post by Northern Flicker »

Berkshire does not buy the US haystack either. They are bottom-up fundamental investors. They look for stocks that they believe are good businesses that they can buy at reasonable prices, and that offer good long-term value.
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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Re: How many here follow Bogle's "no international" theory?

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