The Power of Working Longer

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 71792
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by LadyGeek »

FYI - For those retiring this year, I recommend posting in: Roll Call for the Retirement Class of 2021!
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
Topic Author
bobcat2
Posts: 5507
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: just barely Outside the Beltway

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by bobcat2 »

Delaying retirement for a couple of years—or even a few months—is the most effective way to improve your retirement security.

The Benefits of Working Longer - Kiplinger article (4/29/21)
Link - https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/re ... urce=today

BobK
In finance risk is defined as uncertainty that is consequential (nontrivial). | The two main methods of dealing with financial risk are the matching of assets to goals & diversifying.
User avatar
climber2020
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by climber2020 »

The problem of course is that you’re giving up your best available years: the earlier ones.

I imagine many people toward the end of life’s journey who have health and mobility issues would give quite a bit to have had an extra year or two at the very beginning of retirement.

One has to make a balanced choice, but I’d argue that the most effective way to improve your retirement security is to cut your core expenses as low as comfortably possible.
EddyB
Posts: 1554
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by EddyB »

climber2020 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:51 am The problem of course is that you’re giving up your best available years: the earlier ones.

I imagine many people toward the end of life’s journey who have health and mobility issues would give quite a bit to have had an extra year or two at the very beginning of retirement.

One has to make a balanced choice, but I’d argue that the most effective way to improve your retirement security is to cut your core expenses as low as comfortably possible.
Yeah, but that involves judgment, and multiple considerations, and doesn’t make more money for advisers.
User avatar
Portfolio7
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:53 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Portfolio7 »

It's not so much that I don't want to hear this. It's more that I'm ready to move on.

All my projections say I should work another 7 years or so based purely on retirement savings. Then, there are assets we own that might mean I can retire right now. Or not. It's really just impossible to say. Makes the whole thing a coinflip.

Or I can wait until I have certainty. However, every OMY makes focusing on my health harder to do, and I want to focus on my health.

Once you know you're ready to move on, then it seems to me that it's really a question of balancing finances, health, & longevity concerns.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin
Normchad
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Normchad »

I love all the threads and thoughtful discussions here. I can’t thank all of you enough for all I’ve gained by reading your perspectives.

I’m leaning strongly to retirement soon.

Yesterday, I think somebody here pushed me over the edge. They said “I can make more money, but I can’t make more time”. That hit me hard. I think I’m convinced now......
nigel_ht
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:14 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by nigel_ht »

Portfolio7 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:37 pm It's not so much that I don't want to hear this. It's more that I'm ready to move on.

All my projections say I should work another 7 years or so based purely on retirement savings. Then, there are assets we own that might mean I can retire right now. Or not. It's really just impossible to say. Makes the whole thing a coinflip.

Or I can wait until I have certainty. However, every OMY makes focusing on my health harder to do, and I want to focus on my health.

Once you know you're ready to move on, then it seems to me that it's really a question of balancing finances, health, & longevity concerns.
Oddly, working vs not working had little to do with how much or little I focused on my health. When I was concerned I managed to put the time/effort into exercise and eating right regardless. When I wasn't as concerned, not so much...I should just be more concerned.

For sure, not working would allow more hours at the gym but I hate going to the gym soooooo....
User avatar
celia
Posts: 12533
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:32 am
Location: SoCal

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by celia »

Independent George wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:21 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:52 pm
bobcat2 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:26 pm I'm betting this is the excellent retirement planning advice that many Bogleheads don't want to hear. :wink:
I'm betting you are exactly right.
I'm betting this is advice that many Bogleheads don't need to hear. This is the place where people to ask, "Is $10M enough to retire with $50k/year living expenses?".
+1 to Ind. George

I noticed from the start that this was an older thread and I only read up to this post on the front page.

What BobK is not realizing is that he posted this on Bogleheads, where most of us are not “average”. We tend to be bigger savers here, have more income when working, and higher value retirement accounts. Many (most?) of us don’t want or need to start SS right when we retire. We tend to wait to age 70 (for the higher earning spouse) in order to have a larger cola-adjusted annuity (Ie, SS) for the longer living spouse. We also may need to retire early so we can start doing Roth conversions in lower tax brackets so our RMDs aren’t so big when RMDs start (and push us into higher tax brackets and IRMAA surcharges).

In other words, starting SS right when we retire is detrimental to many Bogleheads (especially those who retire before 62). :wink:
:sharebeer

bobcat2 wrote:
BobK, what was your reason for re-activating this thread today without adding anything new? (Yes, we get that you really, really like the article you linked to.)
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
Cycle
Posts: 1887
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Cycle »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:48 pm
Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:41 pm My current dream is to be a sommelier and 'help' people 'in person' a few days a week ;)

Do you have to go to school for that or can you learn on the job? :wink:
Believe it or not, but there are college courses in how to taste wine and beer for the purpose of becoming a sort of sommelier.
Cornell has a wine tasting course in their school of hospitality management, it is their most sought after undergrad elective
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
mptfan
Posts: 6498
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by mptfan »

Socal77 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:26 pm I'm somewhat biased from being past middle aged (46)...
Lol, I would hardly call 46 "past middle aged," I think it's squarely in the middle.
smitcat
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by smitcat »

nigel_ht wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:47 pm
Portfolio7 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:37 pm It's not so much that I don't want to hear this. It's more that I'm ready to move on.

All my projections say I should work another 7 years or so based purely on retirement savings. Then, there are assets we own that might mean I can retire right now. Or not. It's really just impossible to say. Makes the whole thing a coinflip.

Or I can wait until I have certainty. However, every OMY makes focusing on my health harder to do, and I want to focus on my health.

Once you know you're ready to move on, then it seems to me that it's really a question of balancing finances, health, & longevity concerns.
Oddly, working vs not working had little to do with how much or little I focused on my health. When I was concerned I managed to put the time/effort into exercise and eating right regardless. When I wasn't as concerned, not so much...I should just be more concerned.

For sure, not working would allow more hours at the gym but I hate going to the gym soooooo....
"Oddly, working vs not working had little to do with how much or little I focused on my health."
+1 - exactly this.
User avatar
Topic Author
bobcat2
Posts: 5507
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: just barely Outside the Beltway

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by bobcat2 »

celia wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:01 pm
BobK, what was your reason for re-activating this thread today without adding anything new? (Yes, we get that you really, really like the article you linked to.)
Hi celia,
Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.
bobcat2 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:41 am Delaying retirement for a couple of years—or even a few months—is the most effective way to improve your retirement security.

The Benefits of Working Longer - Kiplinger article (4/29/21)
Link - https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/re ... urce=today
BobK
As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
In finance risk is defined as uncertainty that is consequential (nontrivial). | The two main methods of dealing with financial risk are the matching of assets to goals & diversifying.
User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by CyclingDuo »

bobcat2 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am
celia wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:01 pm
BobK, what was your reason for re-activating this thread today without adding anything new? (Yes, we get that you really, really like the article you linked to.)
Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.
bobcat2 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:41 am Delaying retirement for a couple of years—or even a few months—is the most effective way to improve your retirement security.

The Benefits of Working Longer - Kiplinger article (4/29/21)
Link - https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/re ... urce=today
BobK
As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the read - and especially the graphic at the end with the example of the couple entitled "The Payoff From Putting Off Retirement".

Image

CyclingDuo
Last edited by CyclingDuo on Tue May 04, 2021 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
User avatar
Portfolio7
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:53 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Portfolio7 »

nigel_ht wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:47 pm
Portfolio7 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:37 pm It's not so much that I don't want to hear this. It's more that I'm ready to move on.

All my projections say I should work another 7 years or so based purely on retirement savings. Then, there are assets we own that might mean I can retire right now. Or not. It's really just impossible to say. Makes the whole thing a coinflip.

Or I can wait until I have certainty. However, every OMY makes focusing on my health harder to do, and I want to focus on my health.

Once you know you're ready to move on, then it seems to me that it's really a question of balancing finances, health, & longevity concerns.
Oddly, working vs not working had little to do with how much or little I focused on my health. When I was concerned I managed to put the time/effort into exercise and eating right regardless. When I wasn't as concerned, not so much...I should just be more concerned.

For sure, not working would allow more hours at the gym but I hate going to the gym soooooo....
Everyone has to understand themselves and their own way of getting things done. I like to get outside and exercise, and generally do a lot more of it on weekends and vacations. I like to cook healthy meals, but when I'm working I often just have to throw stuff together, which is still relatively healthy, but not as varied since I'm relying on my fallbacks.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin
GaryA505
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by GaryA505 »

qwertyjazz wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:33 pm Or with 8% return, each 1% increase in savings let’s me retire 6 months earlier.

I'm going to cash in on that 8% x 4 starting later this year!
"Get most of it right and don't make any big mistakes."
secondopinion
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:18 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by secondopinion »

Cycle wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:31 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:48 pm
Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:41 pm My current dream is to be a sommelier and 'help' people 'in person' a few days a week ;)

Do you have to go to school for that or can you learn on the job? :wink:
Believe it or not, but there are college courses in how to taste wine and beer for the purpose of becoming a sort of sommelier.
Cornell has a wine tasting course in their school of hospitality management, it is their most sought after undergrad elective
I sought after "abstract algebra" myself. Each their own.

I say to work a job that you would not mind doing and likely able to do until you are dead. If it adds to your happiness, working longer is easier.
It is better to be half-wrong than have a 50% chance of being all-wrong. With the former, you will learn and have money to try again. Otherwise, you will never learn and will have nothing eventually.
txhill
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by txhill »

Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
surfstar
Posts: 2583
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by surfstar »

txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
Sounds sad. You should donate your crypto earnings to my FIRE fund and I'll let you know if my health goes down rapidly. I kinda doubt it, but we need the data to test my theory.
txhill
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by txhill »

surfstar wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:23 pm
txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
Sounds sad. You should donate your crypto earnings to my FIRE fund and I'll let you know if my health goes down rapidly. I kinda doubt it, but we need the data to test my theory.
I think not having any crypto also is bad for one's health. So no can do! Or I totally would.
Dottie57
Posts: 9911
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Dottie57 »

climber2020 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:51 am The problem of course is that you’re giving up your best available years: the earlier ones.

I imagine many people toward the end of life’s journey who have health and mobility issues would give quite a bit to have had an extra year or two at the very beginning of retirement.

One has to make a balanced choice, but I’d argue that the most effective way to improve your retirement security is to cut your core expenses as low as comfortably possible.
I am glad I retired at 61 instead of 67 as I had planned. Slimmer 401k funds but now a happier more relaxed person. Personal issues got in the way of my first 3 yrs. But it seems like now is the time I can move forward. :arrow:
smitcat
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by smitcat »

txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
"It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work."
Not at all...
Independent George
Posts: 1239
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Independent George »

txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
Were these voluntary or involuntary retirements?
User avatar
Scott S
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:28 am
Location: building my position

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Scott S »

smitcat wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:16 pm
txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pmPurely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
"It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work."
Not at all...
Well, he might be right about "most folks." The status quo is that people get a lot of their social interaction, mental stimulation, and at least some physical activity from working a job. I suspect that determining one's purpose is scary for many people, so they let their work or other organizations do that for them.
"Worry is interest paid on trouble before it becomes due." -- William R. Inge
smitcat
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by smitcat »

Scott S wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm
smitcat wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:16 pm
txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pmPurely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
"It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work."
Not at all...
Well, he might be right about "most folks." The status quo is that people get a lot of their social interaction, mental stimulation, and at least some physical activity from working a job. I suspect that determining one's purpose is scary for many people, so they let their work or other organizations do that for them.
I have no method of value to comment for 'most folks' , only the ones that I know.
User avatar
telemark
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by telemark »

Quotes are from the referenced article in Kiplingers. For context, I retired in 2018 at the age of 58, which I did not regard as particularly early.
Do the math

For every additional year (or even month) you work, you'll shrink the amount of time in retirement you?ll need to finance with your savings. Meanwhile, you'll be able to continue to contribute to your nest egg (see below) while giving that money more time to grow. In addition, working longer will allow you to postpone filing for Social Security benefits, which will increase the amount of your payouts.
For every additional year (or even month) I worked, I shrank the amount of time I had to enjoy retirement. I could no longer contribute to my nest egg, but guess what? I already had enough. Enough to live on comfortably without needing to file for Social Security, which I currently plan to take at 70.
Calculate the cost of health care

Many retirees believe, sometimes erroneously, that they'll spend less when they stop working. But even if you succeed in cutting costs, health care expenses can throw you a costly curve. Working longer is one way to prevent those costs from decimating your nest egg.
I believe, not at all erroneously, that I am spending less in retirement, because that's what my expense tracking shows. That definitely includes health care. My employee sponsored plan cost me $220 a month, although I didn't particularly notice because it was deducted from my paycheck. With the subsidy, my ACA plan costs me less than that *and* it lets me contribute to an HSA.
And working longer could not only help cover the cost of long-term care but also reduce the risk that you?ll need it in the first place. A long-term study of civil servants in the United Kingdom found that verbal memory, which declines naturally with age, deteriorated 38% faster after individuals retired. Other research suggests that people who continue to work are less likely to experience social isolation, which can contribute to cognitive decline. Research by the Age Friendly Foundation and RetirementJobs.com, a website for job seekers 50 and older, found that more than 60% of older adults surveyed who were still working interacted with at least 10 different people every day, while only 15% of retirees said they spoke to that many people on a daily basis (the study was conducted before the pandemic). Even unpleasant colleagues and a bad boss ?are better than social isolation because they provide cognitive challenges that keep the mind active and healthy,? economists Axel B�rsch-Supan and Mortn Schuth contended in a 2014 article for the National Bureau of Economic Research.
He may be on to something there. At this point in my life I've learned far more things than I can easily recall: they're still there, but it can take some time for me to dredge them up. But I was noticing this long before I decided to retire, so I'm not convinced that retirement is the cause. And my hobbies, including social and competitive ballroom dancing, give me ample scope for social interaction. Before the pandemic, I was healthier and happier following retirement, and I expect that to be the case after the pandemic. Would I have been better off during the pandemic if I were also struggling to keep a job? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. Why work if you don't enjoy it and you don't need to?
Exchme
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:00 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by Exchme »

txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
Even if this were statistically valid (I'll bet it wouldn't hold if studied population wide), why couldn't cause and effect be the other way around? That those that felt health issues creeping up on them decided to stop working to enjoy the time they had left?
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by willthrill81 »

CyclingDuo wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am
bobcat2 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am
celia wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:01 pm
BobK, what was your reason for re-activating this thread today without adding anything new? (Yes, we get that you really, really like the article you linked to.)
Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.
bobcat2 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:41 am Delaying retirement for a couple of years—or even a few months—is the most effective way to improve your retirement security.

The Benefits of Working Longer - Kiplinger article (4/29/21)
Link - https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/re ... urce=today
BobK
As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the read - and especially the graphic at the end with the example of the couple entitled "The Payoff From Putting Off Retirement".

Image

CyclingDuo
Of course, a very sizable portion of that increased annual income in that graphic comes from deferring SS benefits for as long as possible. Getting an 8% higher benefit for each year that benefits are deferred from age 62 to 70 is substantial. In that graphic, SS benefits are at least 50% of the couple's projected retirement income.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by CyclingDuo »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:10 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am
bobcat2 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am
celia wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:01 pm
BobK, what was your reason for re-activating this thread today without adding anything new? (Yes, we get that you really, really like the article you linked to.)
Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.
bobcat2 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:41 am Delaying retirement for a couple of years—or even a few months—is the most effective way to improve your retirement security.

The Benefits of Working Longer - Kiplinger article (4/29/21)
Link - https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/re ... urce=today
BobK
As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the read - and especially the graphic at the end with the example of the couple entitled "The Payoff From Putting Off Retirement".

Image

CyclingDuo
Of course, a very sizable portion of that increased annual income in that graphic comes from deferring SS benefits for as long as possible. Getting an 8% higher benefit for each year that benefits are deferred from age 62 to 70 is substantial. In that graphic, SS benefits are at least 50% of the couple's projected retirement income.
Correct. No disagreement from me regarding the amount that SS adds by delaying. I would also not contain the graphic to only include a retirement savings portfolio of $1M, but alter that for each individual household's number - be it higher or lower - to get the more personalized individual household situation.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
TN_Boy
Posts: 2146
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by TN_Boy »

txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
What's "very early?"

The earlier retirees I've seen (which I'll arbitrarily define as pre-60) don't seem to have the health deterioration problem .... at all. Not seeing this.

If work defines a person, that person should keep working. Not everybody fits that description.
H-Town
Posts: 3555
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by H-Town »

txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
I laughed :mrgreen: Isn't sitting a new smoking? Is spending 10-14 hours in the office better for your health than exercising and doing activities outside? You have a choice: live a healthy lifestyle or don't; continue to work longer or don't. But the later, at least put yourself in the position to have a choice.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by willthrill81 »

TN_Boy wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:33 am
txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
What's "very early?"

The earlier retirees I've seen (which I'll arbitrarily define as pre-60) don't seem to have the health deterioration problem .... at all. Not seeing this.

If work defines a person, that person should keep working. Not everybody fits that description.
This is possibly just a reflection of my own values, but the proverbial idea that no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time at the office seems to apply here. Careers can seem really important, but at the end of the day, there seem to be exceedingly few who would be willing to make that their truly #1 priority in life if they contemplated the matter thoroughly.
H-Town wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:08 am I laughed :mrgreen: Isn't sitting a new smoking? Is spending 10-14 hours in the office better for your health than exercising and doing activities outside? You have a choice: live a healthy lifestyle or don't; continue to work longer or don't. But the later, at least put yourself in the position to have a choice.
Good point! Not all work is healthy. Few would claim that sitting, dealing with a significant job stress, eating poorly due to a lack of time, etc. is a recipe for longevity.

Anecdotally, I know a number of people who have been retired for many years and are as active and healthy as anyone else their age who is still trading their time for money. I also know a few people who essentially dropped dead while still working in their careers.

Personally, as soon as I retire, I want to do a 2,000+ mile thru hike, then my wife want to combine touring the country for half the year with volunteering and much of the rest of the year downhill skiing at nearby resorts. That sounds pretty active to me. :D
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by CyclingDuo »

willthrill81 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:04 am
TN_Boy wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:33 am
txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
What's "very early?"

The earlier retirees I've seen (which I'll arbitrarily define as pre-60) don't seem to have the health deterioration problem .... at all. Not seeing this.

If work defines a person, that person should keep working. Not everybody fits that description.
This is possibly just a reflection of my own values, but the proverbial idea that no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time at the office seems to apply here. Careers can seem really important, but at the end of the day, there seem to be exceedingly few who would be willing to make that their truly #1 priority in life if they contemplated the matter thoroughly.
H-Town wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:08 am I laughed :mrgreen: Isn't sitting a new smoking? Is spending 10-14 hours in the office better for your health than exercising and doing activities outside? You have a choice: live a healthy lifestyle or don't; continue to work longer or don't. But the later, at least put yourself in the position to have a choice.
Good point! Not all work is healthy. Few would claim that sitting, dealing with a significant job stress, eating poorly due to a lack of time, etc. is a recipe for longevity.

Anecdotally, I know a number of people who have been retired for many years and are as active and healthy as anyone else their age who is still trading their time for money. I also know a few people who essentially dropped dead while still working in their careers.

Personally, as soon as I retire, I want to do a 2,000+ mile thru hike, then my wife want to combine touring the country for half the year with volunteering and much of the rest of the year downhill skiing at nearby resorts. That sounds pretty active to me. :D
I say, why wait? Some of us do 5000-6000 miles a year on the bike and have been doing that throughout our working careers.

:sharebeer
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by willthrill81 »

CyclingDuo wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:24 am
willthrill81 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:04 am
TN_Boy wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:33 am
txhill wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm Purely anecdotal, but everyone I know who retired very early seems to have deteriorated in health rapidly. It seems like it's hard for most folks to maintain their purpose in life without work. It sounds sad but I know it is true for me too. So I think that is one benefit to working longer (at least for many people).
What's "very early?"

The earlier retirees I've seen (which I'll arbitrarily define as pre-60) don't seem to have the health deterioration problem .... at all. Not seeing this.

If work defines a person, that person should keep working. Not everybody fits that description.
This is possibly just a reflection of my own values, but the proverbial idea that no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time at the office seems to apply here. Careers can seem really important, but at the end of the day, there seem to be exceedingly few who would be willing to make that their truly #1 priority in life if they contemplated the matter thoroughly.
H-Town wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:08 am I laughed :mrgreen: Isn't sitting a new smoking? Is spending 10-14 hours in the office better for your health than exercising and doing activities outside? You have a choice: live a healthy lifestyle or don't; continue to work longer or don't. But the later, at least put yourself in the position to have a choice.
Good point! Not all work is healthy. Few would claim that sitting, dealing with a significant job stress, eating poorly due to a lack of time, etc. is a recipe for longevity.

Anecdotally, I know a number of people who have been retired for many years and are as active and healthy as anyone else their age who is still trading their time for money. I also know a few people who essentially dropped dead while still working in their careers.

Personally, as soon as I retire, I want to do a 2,000+ mile thru hike, then my wife want to combine touring the country for half the year with volunteering and much of the rest of the year downhill skiing at nearby resorts. That sounds pretty active to me. :D
I say, why wait? Some of us do 5000-6000 miles a year on the bike and have been doing that throughout our working careers.

:sharebeer
Sounds like fun! 8-)

Unfortunately, a 2k mile thru hike takes most 20-somethings a good 5 months. That pretty much requires a sabbatical in my profession, and that would only delay the time until I retire. Right now, I'm trying to make as much hay as I can while the sun is still shining. There are already dark clouds on the horizon of higher ed, as you know better than most.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
User avatar
BogleFanGal
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by BogleFanGal »

"Even unpleasant colleagues and a bad boss ?are better than social isolation because they provide cognitive challenges that keep the mind active and healthy,? "

Couldn't disagree with this more - I'd surmise that toxic bosses and colleagues cause the kind of mental and physical stress that absolutely decimates people's health. Was never more relaxed than when I quit the corporate world years ago and made a fraction of the money. Well worth the tradeoff.
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain
User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by CyclingDuo »

willthrill81 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am Sounds like fun! 8-)

Unfortunately, a 2k mile thru hike takes most 20-somethings a good 5 months. That pretty much requires a sabbatical in my profession, and that would only delay the time until I retire. Right now, I'm trying to make as much hay as I can while the sun is still shining. There are already dark clouds on the horizon of higher ed, as you know better than most.
:beer As of the end of April (and the final grades I just submitted this week), I am now fully out from under those clouds and working under what are, for the moment, sunnier skies.

Regarding hiking, I meant, are there not shorter hikes you could be doing during your downtime (summer, spring break, weekends) each and every year? Perhaps you already do this, but was just thinking about all the recreation one could be enjoying while still working. Ditto on the option of renting a recreational vehicle to do some month or two month long summer trips such as your longer term travel plans in retirement. Again, maybe you already do this, but was simply casting my vote to enjoy some of that now while you can.

Or for that matter, is it considered sacrilege to break up the 5 month, 2190 mile hike of the Appalachian Trail into a few shorter hikes where you could spend your next few summers doing that? If the odds say only 1 in 4 make it all the way on a single hike through attempt, why not play the odds and do a section this summer, another section next year, a third section in 2023 and if that doesn't take care of it, use a fourth summer to complete it. Don't know your academic schedule, but where I was working classes are completed by the end of April which provides the month of May (good time to hike a section of the AT) to do it in segments.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
59Gibson
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:41 am

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by 59Gibson »

CyclingDuo wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:36 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:10 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am
bobcat2 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am
celia wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:01 pm
BobK, what was your reason for re-activating this thread today without adding anything new? (Yes, we get that you really, really like the article you linked to.)
Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.
bobcat2 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:41 am Delaying retirement for a couple of years—or even a few months—is the most effective way to improve your retirement security.

The Benefits of Working Longer - Kiplinger article (4/29/21)
Link - https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/re ... urce=today
BobK
As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the read - and especially the graphic at the end with the example of the couple entitled "The Payoff From Putting Off Retirement".

Image

CyclingDuo
Of course, a very sizable portion of that increased annual income in that graphic comes from deferring SS benefits for as long as possible. Getting an 8% higher benefit for each year that benefits are deferred from age 62 to 70 is substantial. In that graphic, SS benefits are at least 50% of the couple's projected retirement income.
Correct. No disagreement from me regarding the amount that SS adds by delaying. I would also not contain the graphic to only include a retirement savings portfolio of $1M, but alter that for each individual household's number - be it higher or lower - to get the more personalized individual household situation.

CyclingDuo
Interesting graph. If I'm reading it correctly, I do not see much incentive there to cont full time at 65 or 70 as opposed to dropping back to p/t.
smitcat
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by smitcat »

CyclingDuo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:48 am
willthrill81 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am Sounds like fun! 8-)

Unfortunately, a 2k mile thru hike takes most 20-somethings a good 5 months. That pretty much requires a sabbatical in my profession, and that would only delay the time until I retire. Right now, I'm trying to make as much hay as I can while the sun is still shining. There are already dark clouds on the horizon of higher ed, as you know better than most.
:beer As of the end of April (and the final grades I just submitted this week), I am now fully out from under those clouds and working under what are, for the moment, sunnier skies.

Regarding hiking, I meant, are there not shorter hikes you could be doing during your downtime (summer, spring break, weekends) each and every year? Perhaps you already do this, but was just thinking about all the recreation one could be enjoying while still working. Ditto on the option of renting a recreational vehicle to do some month or two month long summer trips such as your longer term travel plans in retirement. Again, maybe you already do this, but was simply casting my vote to enjoy some of that now while you can.

Or for that matter, is it considered sacrilege to break up the 5 month, 2190 mile hike of the Appalachian Trail into a few shorter hikes where you could spend your next few summers doing that? If the odds say only 1 in 4 make it all the way on a single hike through attempt, why not play the odds and do a section this summer, another section next year, a third section in 2023 and if that doesn't take care of it, use a fourth summer to complete it. Don't know your academic schedule, but where I was working classes are completed by the end of April which provides the month of May (good time to hike a section of the AT) to do it in segments.

CyclingDuo


"Regarding hiking, I meant, are there not shorter hikes you could be doing during your downtime (summer, spring break, weekends) each and every year? Perhaps you already do this, but was just thinking about all the recreation one could be enjoying while still working. Ditto on the option of renting a recreational vehicle to do some month or two month long summer trips such as your longer term travel plans in retirement. Again, maybe you already do this, but was simply casting my vote to enjoy some of that now while you can.

Or for that matter, is it considered sacrilege to break up the 5 month, 2190 mile hike of the Appalachian Trail into a few shorter hikes where you could spend your next few summers doing that? If the odds say only 1 in 4 make it all the way on a single hike through attempt, why not play the odds and do a section this summer, another section next year, a third section in 2023 and if that doesn't take care of it, use a fourth summer to complete it"

Great ideas and all things that we did similarly while working ....
Congtrats on your new path.
smitcat
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by smitcat »

59Gibson wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:27 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:36 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:10 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am
bobcat2 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am

Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.



As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the read - and especially the graphic at the end with the example of the couple entitled "The Payoff From Putting Off Retirement".

Image

CyclingDuo
Of course, a very sizable portion of that increased annual income in that graphic comes from deferring SS benefits for as long as possible. Getting an 8% higher benefit for each year that benefits are deferred from age 62 to 70 is substantial. In that graphic, SS benefits are at least 50% of the couple's projected retirement income.
Correct. No disagreement from me regarding the amount that SS adds by delaying. I would also not contain the graphic to only include a retirement savings portfolio of $1M, but alter that for each individual household's number - be it higher or lower - to get the more personalized individual household situation.

CyclingDuo
Interesting graph. If I'm reading it correctly, I do not see much incentive there to cont full time at 65 or 70 as opposed to dropping back to p/t.
I tried to find it in the article but could not - what do they define as part time work? How many $$ per year? Are both working and contributing to SS?
TN_Boy
Posts: 2146
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by TN_Boy »

smitcat wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:39 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:48 am
willthrill81 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am Sounds like fun! 8-)

Unfortunately, a 2k mile thru hike takes most 20-somethings a good 5 months. That pretty much requires a sabbatical in my profession, and that would only delay the time until I retire. Right now, I'm trying to make as much hay as I can while the sun is still shining. There are already dark clouds on the horizon of higher ed, as you know better than most.
:beer As of the end of April (and the final grades I just submitted this week), I am now fully out from under those clouds and working under what are, for the moment, sunnier skies.

Regarding hiking, I meant, are there not shorter hikes you could be doing during your downtime (summer, spring break, weekends) each and every year? Perhaps you already do this, but was just thinking about all the recreation one could be enjoying while still working. Ditto on the option of renting a recreational vehicle to do some month or two month long summer trips such as your longer term travel plans in retirement. Again, maybe you already do this, but was simply casting my vote to enjoy some of that now while you can.

Or for that matter, is it considered sacrilege to break up the 5 month, 2190 mile hike of the Appalachian Trail into a few shorter hikes where you could spend your next few summers doing that? If the odds say only 1 in 4 make it all the way on a single hike through attempt, why not play the odds and do a section this summer, another section next year, a third section in 2023 and if that doesn't take care of it, use a fourth summer to complete it. Don't know your academic schedule, but where I was working classes are completed by the end of April which provides the month of May (good time to hike a section of the AT) to do it in segments.

CyclingDuo


"Regarding hiking, I meant, are there not shorter hikes you could be doing during your downtime (summer, spring break, weekends) each and every year? Perhaps you already do this, but was just thinking about all the recreation one could be enjoying while still working. Ditto on the option of renting a recreational vehicle to do some month or two month long summer trips such as your longer term travel plans in retirement. Again, maybe you already do this, but was simply casting my vote to enjoy some of that now while you can.

Or for that matter, is it considered sacrilege to break up the 5 month, 2190 mile hike of the Appalachian Trail into a few shorter hikes where you could spend your next few summers doing that? If the odds say only 1 in 4 make it all the way on a single hike through attempt, why not play the odds and do a section this summer, another section next year, a third section in 2023 and if that doesn't take care of it, use a fourth summer to complete it"

Great ideas and all things that we did similarly while working ....
Congtrats on your new path.
Many people, of course, section hike the AT, a week or two at a time. It's a very good strategy.

That said, for those not in academia (and many of the people I know who teach at the college level do research and such during the summer and wind up with less long vacation slots than you'd think) vacation time is still pretty precious. My vacation time for most of my later working years was five weeks, more than a lot of people have. And with family visits, a few shorter trips, etc this time gets eaten up pretty fast. It did for us, anyway.

I agree there is zero need to wait until retirement to do fun things -- we have had a lot of excellent trips -- but being actually retired is ... actually different :-)
User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Most Effective Way to Improve Your Retirement Security

Post by CyclingDuo »

59Gibson wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:27 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:36 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:10 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am
bobcat2 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am

Here I quote my new post from Sunday May 2.



As anyone can plainly see my recent post is about a new Kiplinger article written on April 29 - not the original paper that started this thread.

BobK
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the read - and especially the graphic at the end with the example of the couple entitled "The Payoff From Putting Off Retirement".

Image

CyclingDuo
Of course, a very sizable portion of that increased annual income in that graphic comes from deferring SS benefits for as long as possible. Getting an 8% higher benefit for each year that benefits are deferred from age 62 to 70 is substantial. In that graphic, SS benefits are at least 50% of the couple's projected retirement income.
Correct. No disagreement from me regarding the amount that SS adds by delaying. I would also not contain the graphic to only include a retirement savings portfolio of $1M, but alter that for each individual household's number - be it higher or lower - to get the more personalized individual household situation.

CyclingDuo
Interesting graph. If I'm reading it correctly, I do not see much incentive there to cont full time at 65 or 70 as opposed to dropping back to p/t.
That's the way I read it as well. They didn't specify how much income was coming in from part-time wages compared to the $200K for the two full time salaries (spouse one: $150K; spouse two: $50K).

The data behind the graph is in example 9.2 (affluent couple) at this link: https://longevity.stanford.edu/wp-conte ... %20SCL.pdf

The graphic on page 48 of that document shows how much would come from SS and how much would come from portfolio drawdown since the original graphic above did not have that delineation:

Image
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
ad2007
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:59 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by ad2007 »

mak1277 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:27 pm
That ship sailed for me when I got a C in chemistry and switched to the business school...all chances of important work were gone for me.
That's funny, I dropped out of a decent MBA program because it blew my mind. All the chances of getting into the c-suite were gone for me at that point.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by willthrill81 »

CyclingDuo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:48 am
willthrill81 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am Sounds like fun! 8-)

Unfortunately, a 2k mile thru hike takes most 20-somethings a good 5 months. That pretty much requires a sabbatical in my profession, and that would only delay the time until I retire. Right now, I'm trying to make as much hay as I can while the sun is still shining. There are already dark clouds on the horizon of higher ed, as you know better than most.
:beer As of the end of April (and the final grades I just submitted this week), I am now fully out from under those clouds and working under what are, for the moment, sunnier skies.
I'm thankful that you've been able to pivot so well. :beer
CyclingDuo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:48 am Regarding hiking, I meant, are there not shorter hikes you could be doing during your downtime (summer, spring break, weekends) each and every year? Perhaps you already do this, but was just thinking about all the recreation one could be enjoying while still working. Ditto on the option of renting a recreational vehicle to do some month or two month long summer trips such as your longer term travel plans in retirement. Again, maybe you already do this, but was simply casting my vote to enjoy some of that now while you can.

Or for that matter, is it considered sacrilege to break up the 5 month, 2190 mile hike of the Appalachian Trail into a few shorter hikes where you could spend your next few summers doing that? If the odds say only 1 in 4 make it all the way on a single hike through attempt, why not play the odds and do a section this summer, another section next year, a third section in 2023 and if that doesn't take care of it, use a fourth summer to complete it. Don't know your academic schedule, but where I was working classes are completed by the end of April which provides the month of May (good time to hike a section of the AT) to do it in segments.

CyclingDuo
Don't get me wrong; we do lots of fun stuff right now. We've got a 3 week trip to the Columbia River gorge, Crater Lake NP, the Oregon and Washington coasts, and Olympic NP. My DW and I will be spending a few days hiking in the North Cascades NP, and we'll be taking my MiL to Yellowstone and Grand Tetons NPs at the end of the summer. Having a relatively small motorhome should enable us to affordably do a lot of traveling with our young daughter, especially when I'm not teaching in the summers.

While I really do appreciate the suggestion, and section hikes would be possible, there are a lot of reasons why I'm not personally interested in them for the AT or PCT. One is that it's a bit like breaking up a marathon into a dozen sections; yes, you've gone the total distance, but it's certainly not the same experience. Also, my DW does not do tent camping at all, and I don't want to leave her behind many times for 1-2 weeks at a time for a hike. So our plan is for to assist me in a thru hike via our motorhome right after I retire. She can roughly follow me, especially on the AT, so I can spend most nights sleeping in the motorhome, getting a hot shower and meal every night. That would be much more enjoyable for both of us and give me a big retirement goal to pursue over the next ~12 years.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by willthrill81 »

ad2007 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:21 am
mak1277 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:27 pm
That ship sailed for me when I got a C in chemistry and switched to the business school...all chances of important work were gone for me.
That's funny, I dropped out of a decent MBA program because it blew my mind. All the chances of getting into the c-suite were gone for me at that point.
Out of curiosity, would you elaborate? Were there specific subjects that were problematic for you?
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
sailaway
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by sailaway »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:36 am

While I really do appreciate the suggestion, and section hikes would be possible, there are a lot of reasons why I'm not personally interested in them for the AT or PCT. One is that it's a bit like breaking up a marathon into a dozen sections; yes, you've gone the total distance, but it's certainly not the same experience. Also, my DW does not do tent camping at all, and I don't want to leave her behind many times for 1-2 weeks at a time for a hike. So our plan is for to assist me in a thru hike via our motorhome right after I retire. She can roughly follow me, especially on the AT, so I can spend most nights sleeping in the motorhome, getting a hot shower and meal every night. That would be much more enjoyable for both of us and give me a big retirement goal to pursue over the next ~12 years.
I am all for doing it your own way, but am also amused that section hikes are cheating, while sleeping in a motorhome every night isn't....
TN_Boy
Posts: 2146
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by TN_Boy »

sailaway wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:49 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:36 am

While I really do appreciate the suggestion, and section hikes would be possible, there are a lot of reasons why I'm not personally interested in them for the AT or PCT. One is that it's a bit like breaking up a marathon into a dozen sections; yes, you've gone the total distance, but it's certainly not the same experience. Also, my DW does not do tent camping at all, and I don't want to leave her behind many times for 1-2 weeks at a time for a hike. So our plan is for to assist me in a thru hike via our motorhome right after I retire. She can roughly follow me, especially on the AT, so I can spend most nights sleeping in the motorhome, getting a hot shower and meal every night. That would be much more enjoyable for both of us and give me a big retirement goal to pursue over the next ~12 years.
I am all for doing it your own way, but am also amused that section hikes are cheating, while sleeping in a motorhome every night isn't....
Not to pile onto willthrill81, but +1000.

I know some AT hikers. The hard part is having to carry food, set up camp, get and purify water ..... this requires a pack weighing 30 lbs or more, if you know how to organize good quality gear. If one could skip having to carry cooking and camping equipment (tent, etc), only carry minimal food, etc you could greatly reduce the pack weight and thus the effort required.

It's having to do real backpacking with a full pack that makes doing the AT hard ...... you won't get much trail credit from through hikers (or section hikers for that matter) with an RV to crash in most nights :D It's still a lot of walking, but it's not actually a through hike experience as most people think of it.

But we digress .....
ad2007
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:59 am

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by ad2007 »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:36 am
ad2007 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:21 am
mak1277 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:27 pm
That ship sailed for me when I got a C in chemistry and switched to the business school...all chances of important work were gone for me.
That's funny, I dropped out of a decent MBA program because it blew my mind. All the chances of getting into the c-suite were gone for me at that point.
Out of curiosity, would you elaborate? Were there specific subjects that were problematic for you?
Sure. I was a project mech engineer for a large firm, was sent me to get an MBA (management track), but some of the courses were too wishy washy: management responsibility, corporate ethics, globalization. I felt like I was back in those high school debate classes - that blew my mind. I lost interest and dropped out.
I was too idealistic/immature about "enjoying what you do." Thought I wanted to stay technical, didn't think I'd enjoy running a business. It was dumb to not finish the program as I did not stay technical and ultimately started/ran a business. That's life.

Sounds like you are in business education, professor? Are you with an MBA program?
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by willthrill81 »

TN_Boy wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:04 am
sailaway wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:49 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:36 am

While I really do appreciate the suggestion, and section hikes would be possible, there are a lot of reasons why I'm not personally interested in them for the AT or PCT. One is that it's a bit like breaking up a marathon into a dozen sections; yes, you've gone the total distance, but it's certainly not the same experience. Also, my DW does not do tent camping at all, and I don't want to leave her behind many times for 1-2 weeks at a time for a hike. So our plan is for to assist me in a thru hike via our motorhome right after I retire. She can roughly follow me, especially on the AT, so I can spend most nights sleeping in the motorhome, getting a hot shower and meal every night. That would be much more enjoyable for both of us and give me a big retirement goal to pursue over the next ~12 years.
I am all for doing it your own way, but am also amused that section hikes are cheating, while sleeping in a motorhome every night isn't....
Not to pile onto willthrill81, but +1000.

I know some AT hikers. The hard part is having to carry food, set up camp, get and purify water ..... this requires a pack weighing 30 lbs or more, if you know how to organize good quality gear. If one could skip having to carry cooking and camping equipment (tent, etc), only carry minimal food, etc you could greatly reduce the pack weight and thus the effort required.

It's having to do real backpacking with a full pack that makes doing the AT hard ...... you won't get much trail credit from through hikers (or section hikers for that matter) with an RV to crash in most nights :D It's still a lot of walking, but it's not actually a through hike experience as most people think of it.

But we digress .....
Well, I'm not too interested in trail cred from a bunch of 20-somethings now, and I don't think that will change when I'm in my 50s. Hiking 2k miles, even assisted, is still quite a feat, but I'm far more interested in the experience than bragging about how hard it was.

I don't want to derail this thread though, so I won't continue this discussion here.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
surfstar
Posts: 2583
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by surfstar »

TN_Boy wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:04 am
sailaway wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:49 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:36 am

While I really do appreciate the suggestion, and section hikes would be possible, there are a lot of reasons why I'm not personally interested in them for the AT or PCT. One is that it's a bit like breaking up a marathon into a dozen sections; yes, you've gone the total distance, but it's certainly not the same experience. Also, my DW does not do tent camping at all, and I don't want to leave her behind many times for 1-2 weeks at a time for a hike. So our plan is for to assist me in a thru hike via our motorhome right after I retire. She can roughly follow me, especially on the AT, so I can spend most nights sleeping in the motorhome, getting a hot shower and meal every night. That would be much more enjoyable for both of us and give me a big retirement goal to pursue over the next ~12 years.
I am all for doing it your own way, but am also amused that section hikes are cheating, while sleeping in a motorhome every night isn't....
Not to pile onto willthrill81, but +1000.

I know some AT hikers. The hard part is having to carry food, set up camp, get and purify water ..... this requires a pack weighing 30 lbs or more, if you know how to organize good quality gear. If one could skip having to carry cooking and camping equipment (tent, etc), only carry minimal food, etc you could greatly reduce the pack weight and thus the effort required.

It's having to do real backpacking with a full pack that makes doing the AT hard ...... you won't get much trail credit from through hikers (or section hikers for that matter) with an RV to crash in most nights :D It's still a lot of walking, but it's not actually a through hike experience as most people think of it.

But we digress .....
Uh, yeah. Sleeping in a motor home nearly nightly is NOT a thru-hike. That is a bunch of day hikes.
But whatever floats your boat.
As we say in rock climbing - "There are no cheaters in climbing, only liars." Be honest about it and we can't care too much.

I'm very happy and lucky that my wife likes to car camp and backpack, along with climbing.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 24467
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by willthrill81 »

ad2007 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:06 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:36 am
ad2007 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:21 am
mak1277 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:27 pm
That ship sailed for me when I got a C in chemistry and switched to the business school...all chances of important work were gone for me.
That's funny, I dropped out of a decent MBA program because it blew my mind. All the chances of getting into the c-suite were gone for me at that point.
Out of curiosity, would you elaborate? Were there specific subjects that were problematic for you?
Sure. I was a project mech engineer for a large firm, was sent me to get an MBA (management track), but some of the courses were too wishy washy: management responsibility, corporate ethics, globalization. I felt like I was back in those high school debate classes - that blew my mind. I lost interest and dropped out.
I was too idealistic/immature about "enjoying what you do." Thought I wanted to stay technical, didn't think I'd enjoy running a business. It was dumb to not finish the program as I did not stay technical and ultimately started/ran a business. That's life.

Sounds like you are in business education, professor? Are you with an MBA program?
It's ironic that you had those issues. After the 80s and 90s, many employers were complaining that MBA programs were too focused on the 'hard' skills and not enough on the 'soft' skills. So most MBA programs pivoted accordingly.

Yes, I'm a business professor (and am purposefully not more specific than that) and have been on both sides of the fence (i.e., student, professor, and administrator).

Frankly, I and a number of other professors believe that it's difficult to impossible to separate truly meaningful, actionable ethics from religion. Learning what a philosopher thought about ethics or what the majority believe about an issue today (and knowing that what the majority believes can and often does change radically, sometimes in relatively short order; further, I reject wholesale the idea that 'the majority is right') aren't strong motivations for most who are faced with genuine ethical dilemmas in their profession and are incentivized to do the 'wrong' thing. And it's just plain boring to most, so you were definitely not alone. This is not meant to be a religious comment nor an endorsement of any religion, merely a comment on the difficulties of teaching ethics these days.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
carolinaman
Posts: 4563
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:56 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: The Power of Working Longer

Post by carolinaman »

I was going to retire at age 64 in 2008. I delayed retirement 2 years to recover from the market and increase my pension. It made a huge difference for us.

I was fortunate that I had a job that I liked.

I know that some people are forced out of work earlier for a variety of reasons or may have a miserable jobs.

My father told me to find something I really enjoyed doing and then figure out how to get paid to do it. Perhaps younger people should focus more on that aspect of work rather than retiring (to what?) in their 30s and 40s.
Post Reply