The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Broken Man 1999
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

AB609 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:02 pm When I was starting out, I drove old beaters purchased with cash I had on hand. Now I buy new and drive them into the ground. Current car is 14 yrs old with 220K+ miles. We did purchase an additional new car last year. I wanted something reliable with the latest safety features. DS is a fairly new driver and things like blind spot monitoring, lane assist and automatic braking add an additional safety margin. Avoiding having someone injured in accident is worth a few bucks to me.
My bold!

Apparently for your son, but not yourself?

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Scott S
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Scott S »

Watty wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:10 pm
Scott S wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:17 am
burritoLover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:13 amSorry, I value my life over money. The difference in safety in a crash between a similar new and 10-15 year old vehicle is massive.
Let's not get into a false sense of security about that. Today's car will be a "death trap" compared to a new car another 10-15 years from now. ;)
It is a bit morbid but once measure of of car safety is the driver death rate per million registered vehicles. Overall it has declined from 87 in 2002 to 36 in 2017 which is the latest year that data is available.

You can also look up the statistics for other years and specific models here.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-dea ... -and-model

The new advanced safety features started becoming more common in 2018 so it will be interesting to see how much those impact the statistics.
And my dad tells me that the highways were absolute carnage in the 1950s. :wink: But as far too many people still die in car crashes each year, I think we ought to drive as if our cars can't protect us. That mindset informs more attentive and cautious driving. That's what I was getting at, if vaguely.

I worry that some of the recent safety improvements such as lane departure warnings and automatic braking are just taking the place of defensive driving, and thus enabling more distraction. But that's probably outside the scope of this thread...
"Worry is interest paid on trouble before it becomes due." -- William R. Inge
Lee_WSP
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Lee_WSP »

Rephrasing OPs post in percentages


OP spends 5% of median household income once per ten years or so and compares it to spending 5% EVERY year per car, so 10% total. Based off the national median household wage.
phxjcc
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by phxjcc »

bg5 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:11 am Good Morning,

Everyone has their "thing" that they enjoy to spend money on so if cars are your "thing" then please don't be offended. I have no problem dropping $500 on a round of golf at Whistling Straits or spending $200 on a meal every now and then.

With that being said I am always shocked at the amount of money people throw into cars. The vast majority of people cannot afford the cars they drive and it really takes away at their ability to become financially independent. I totally understand that on this boglehead board that most people can easily afford the cars they drive.

My goal with this post is to make people realize that if you want to get rid of your $700 car payments its very easy to buy a car in the $2000-$4000 price range and have it last for many years....often times being able to resell it for almost what you bought it at.

I have found that both Honda and Toyota's are almost indestructable and will often times reach well over 300,000 miles if you keep up on standard oil changes. There are plenty of cheap Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys on FB Marketplace right now in the price range I described above. I have been doing this for years and have found that the vast majority of my wealth has come from not having car payments and taking that money and investing it. See my story below and please understand that these cars are not rust buckets...I live and work in a wealthy area and these cars fit in just fine and dont stick out like a sore thumb.

2010 I bought a 2000 honda accord with 180,000 miles on it for $2200 and I drove it for 3 years and put 60,000 miles on it. The car still worked great and I ended up selling it in 2013 for $1700.

2013 - I bought a 2002 Honda pilot with 200,000 miles on it for $2800 and drove it for 2 years and put 40,000 miles on it. In 2015 I sold it for $2200.

2015 - I bought a 2005 Honda Pilot for $3300 and it had 210,000 miles on it. I drove it for 3 years and put 60,000 miles on it and in 2018 I sold it for $2600.

2018 - I bought a 2007 Honda pilot for $2300 and it had 210,000 miles on it. I drove it for 15 months and the engine blew......I sold the car in 1 day after the engine blew for $1000 :) Unreal as the resale value of Hondas is nuts....basically had people fighting over the car with the blow engine and still got a stinking grand.

2020 - I bought a 2009 Honda Pilot for $4000 and it had 220,000 miles on it


Bottom line is I realized that my cars Im driving are costing me very little amounts of money and I am taking all the money that I would of put into car payments and just invest it. Cars drop in value like crazy but what I have found is that there is always a HUGE market for cars that are selling in the $2000-$4000 range. If I showed you pics of these cars you would say to yourself that these are nice cars....they are not rust buckets and they look and fit in just fine.

So if you are someone who is trying to free up some cash then I would start with cars....they lost a lot of value and there are plenty of deals out there for reliable cars at a cheap price. I buy all my cars off of private sellers on Facebook marketplace and I know very little about cars. I could not even change the oil if I needed to. Buy a Honda or Toyota and it will run and last a lifetime while still having a great resale value.

If you have questins please let me know.
Just got back from Costco—can’t believe the number of young families in $50,000+++ SUV’s.
Do the math....at 84 months, you are > $500 month.

I am a car geek, but that is ******g your money away.

My 700HP/800 TQ toy? $32K

My Texas friend says it is because some feel that they will never be able to buy a house, they decided to buy a fancy car.
boglegirl
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by boglegirl »

lessismore22 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:39 am New cars often remind of the hedonic treadmill. That exuberance wears off pretty quick.

'The hedonic treadmill, also known as hedonic adaptation, is the observed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes.'
I guess some of us have a slow walking pace hedonic treadmill. :happy My current drive was purchased new 9 years ago. I *loved* this car for 8 years, and it's only been in the last year or so that I've thought of replacing it. But it's been reliable and my annual depreciation hit is now so low, that I'll probably stick with it for another few years. Like some other posters have said, I prefer to purchase new cars but then keep them for at least 10-12 years.
quantAndHold
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by quantAndHold »

bg5 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:55 am But I always hear people (even on this forum) say that they dont know how people got so much money. I think its fair to say that an easy place to look is in the driveway and if you are struggling to save for retirement your cars are probably a bug reason for this. Another poster mentioned people buying to much house which again makes total sense.
The thing, though, is that how people “got so much money” is almost never by saving, but by earning more. Broken Man’s caregivers are never going to build wealth, no matter how cheap their car is, because they just don’t make enough money, just like nobody, no matter how much or little they make, is going to become wealthy by cutting out their morning Starbucks.

One of the Boglehead tenets is living within your means, and like Klang Fool said, saving has to come before discretionary spending. But once that’s in place, there are limits to how much of an effect even extreme frugality is going to have. If someone is making $40k, they’re already living a pretty frugal existence by necessity, and being even more frugal is only going to have a small incremental impact. By the same token, if someone is making $300k, they can build wealth by just following some basic principles and not being a complete idiot with their money. For these people, a $2000 car isn’t necessary for success.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
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eye.surgeon
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by eye.surgeon »

Tingting1013 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:10 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:04 am
MishkaWorries wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:02 am I'm in shock someone would waste $500 on a round of golf and $200 on a dinner.
I'm guessing most folks who will drop $500 on a round of golf have enough income and/or wealth that a $700 car payment won't be the difference between accumulating wealth or not.

I did the cheap car thing until my late 20s, but once I had small kids, I decided it was worth it to spend more on something newer and with new car safety features. I hit a point in income/wealth where new cars wouldn't take a big bite out of my finances.
And yet the OP still buys beater cars...

OP, I play the opposite game with my cars. Instead of buying beaters that need to be replaced every year, I buy brand new cars that can be flipped a year or two later for the same price that I bought it. Better financial outcome and quality of life.
I've had a couple friends make the same claim. When I actually talked the details with one of them it turned out something like this...He bought a 911 GT3 for $170k, drove it for 9 months, sold it for $170k. And he was very proud of this. What he chose not to dwell on is it cost him $15k in tax and $3k in insurance. So his "free" car cost him $2,000/month of ownership. Not to mention he had a small home's worth of money tied up in the ownership. But he gladly told anyone who would listen that he drove it for free.

To the OP, your advice is excellent and most would be wise to heed it. Once you reach a certain net worth it becomes less important. My net worth is well into 7 figures but I'm still daily driving a Honda, but buying a Mercedes wouldn't change my retirement.
Last edited by eye.surgeon on Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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RobLyons
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by RobLyons »

Katietsu wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:16 am I am fascinated by the average age of cars in places like Texas. In my world, a Toyota driven for 15,000 miles a year as a daily driver in all weather gets taken out by corrosion well before it can get to 200k or 300k miles.

Exactly this. Here in New England cars start rusting out under 100k sometimes. Potholes galore so parts break earlier, alignments are needed more frequently, tires, rims, etc. It's nearly impossible to be a classic car enthusiast (I am one) unless one has a garage and drives the vehicle only during the late spring - early fall months.
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Tingting1013
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Tingting1013 »

eye.surgeon wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:17 pm
Tingting1013 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:10 am
alfaspider wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:04 am
MishkaWorries wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:02 am I'm in shock someone would waste $500 on a round of golf and $200 on a dinner.
I'm guessing most folks who will drop $500 on a round of golf have enough income and/or wealth that a $700 car payment won't be the difference between accumulating wealth or not.

I did the cheap car thing until my late 20s, but once I had small kids, I decided it was worth it to spend more on something newer and with new car safety features. I hit a point in income/wealth where new cars wouldn't take a big bite out of my finances.
And yet the OP still buys beater cars...

OP, I play the opposite game with my cars. Instead of buying beaters that need to be replaced every year, I buy brand new cars that can be flipped a year or two later for the same price that I bought it. Better financial outcome and quality of life.
I've had a couple friends make the same claim. When I actually talked the details with one of them it turned out something like this...He bought a 911 GT3 for $170k, drove it for 9 months, sold it for $170k. And he was very proud of this. What he chose not to dwell on is it cost him $15k in tax and $3k in insurance. So his "free" car cost him $2,000/month of ownership. Not to mention he had a small home's worth of money tied up in the ownership. But he gladly told anyone who would listen that he drove it for free.
A completely different use case than the one I practice.
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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by MortgageOnBlack »

Bought my 91 Honda Civic, 125k in 09/2014 for $2200... Still driving it at 190k today (can probably resell for $1500)
Bought my 01 Infiniti QX4, 125k in 07/2014 for $6200... was totaled out because of fender bender in 2016 (paid out $5500). still driving it at 183k.

Prior to these, bought a 90 Honda civic for $1300 and drove it 10 plus years before it was totaled for $1000. not bad for $300 before I donated it.

With all this being said... I feel I'm doing well, but I don't think buying a $15k/$20k car would change my lifestyle/financial picture too much...
Broken Man 1999
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

phxjcc wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:40 pm
bg5 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:11 am Good Morning,

Everyone has their "thing" that they enjoy to spend money on so if cars are your "thing" then please don't be offended. I have no problem dropping $500 on a round of golf at Whistling Straits or spending $200 on a meal every now and then.

With that being said I am always shocked at the amount of money people throw into cars. The vast majority of people cannot afford the cars they drive and it really takes away at their ability to become financially independent. I totally understand that on this boglehead board that most people can easily afford the cars they drive.

My goal with this post is to make people realize that if you want to get rid of your $700 car payments its very easy to buy a car in the $2000-$4000 price range and have it last for many years....often times being able to resell it for almost what you bought it at.

I have found that both Honda and Toyota's are almost indestructable and will often times reach well over 300,000 miles if you keep up on standard oil changes. There are plenty of cheap Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys on FB Marketplace right now in the price range I described above. I have been doing this for years and have found that the vast majority of my wealth has come from not having car payments and taking that money and investing it. See my story below and please understand that these cars are not rust buckets...I live and work in a wealthy area and these cars fit in just fine and dont stick out like a sore thumb.

2010 I bought a 2000 honda accord with 180,000 miles on it for $2200 and I drove it for 3 years and put 60,000 miles on it. The car still worked great and I ended up selling it in 2013 for $1700.

2013 - I bought a 2002 Honda pilot with 200,000 miles on it for $2800 and drove it for 2 years and put 40,000 miles on it. In 2015 I sold it for $2200.

2015 - I bought a 2005 Honda Pilot for $3300 and it had 210,000 miles on it. I drove it for 3 years and put 60,000 miles on it and in 2018 I sold it for $2600.

2018 - I bought a 2007 Honda pilot for $2300 and it had 210,000 miles on it. I drove it for 15 months and the engine blew......I sold the car in 1 day after the engine blew for $1000 :) Unreal as the resale value of Hondas is nuts....basically had people fighting over the car with the blow engine and still got a stinking grand.

2020 - I bought a 2009 Honda Pilot for $4000 and it had 220,000 miles on it


Bottom line is I realized that my cars Im driving are costing me very little amounts of money and I am taking all the money that I would of put into car payments and just invest it. Cars drop in value like crazy but what I have found is that there is always a HUGE market for cars that are selling in the $2000-$4000 range. If I showed you pics of these cars you would say to yourself that these are nice cars....they are not rust buckets and they look and fit in just fine.

So if you are someone who is trying to free up some cash then I would start with cars....they lost a lot of value and there are plenty of deals out there for reliable cars at a cheap price. I buy all my cars off of private sellers on Facebook marketplace and I know very little about cars. I could not even change the oil if I needed to. Buy a Honda or Toyota and it will run and last a lifetime while still having a great resale value.

If you have questins please let me know.
Just got back from Costco—can’t believe the number of young families in $50,000+++ SUV’s.
Do the math....at 84 months, you are > $500 month.

I am a car geek, but that is ******g your money away.

My 700HP/800 TQ toy? $32K

My Texas friend says it is because some feel that they will never be able to buy a house, they decided to buy a fancy car.
My bold!

You do know Costco's membership demographics, right? A bit more affluent than the average bear. Not necessarily those who struggle to pay for SUVS.

A couple of educated people can knock it out of the park, even if individually they cannot.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
manuvns
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by manuvns »

got a 2007 lexus RX in 2014 for 12k and it is still going strong after 7 years and 200k miles, I think now it is paying me back. I can't find a decent car for the 2-4k range most decent used cars cost a minimum of 10-12k right now. if a good car shows up it is sold the day it is listed.
Workaholic
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Workaholic »

Nobody gets wealthy by buying cheap cars....

People get wealthy by increasing their income and living below their means.

What you fail to mention is the safety of many $2000-$4000 vehicles is lacking compared to even a modern $25K sedan. I know I'd certainly not want to put my family in a vehicle that would not fare well in a crash. Not saying you have to spend $50K on a vehicle but buying some moderately new and with newer safety features is a much better proposition than buying a cheap clunker.

OP- your logic seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Pikel
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Pikel »

I'm with the others in the rust belt. 5 year old vehicles will start developing rust bubbles up here. Yet another reason to move south.
djeayzonne
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by djeayzonne »

Workaholic wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:41 pm Nobody gets wealthy by buying cheap cars....

People get wealthy by increasing their income and living below their means.

What you fail to mention is the safety of many $2000-$4000 vehicles is lacking compared to even a modern $25K sedan. I know I'd certainly not want to put my family in a vehicle that would not fare well in a crash. Not saying you have to spend $50K on a vehicle but buying some moderately new and with newer safety features is a much better proposition than buying a cheap clunker.

OP- your logic seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Completely agree with this.
Just for ease of calculations, let's take a 500/month car payment, which is only 6,000 a year. After 10 years, we have a whopping 60K.

If that represents the majority of your wealth, you aren't wealthy, don't have much of an income, and with spending 500 on a single round of golf implies that you manage money much worse than the people you seem to feel the need to advise.
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watchnerd
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by watchnerd »

Lee_WSP wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:17 pm Maybe, but when the household is earning $400,000 per year or 33.3k per month, $700 is a drop in the bucket, representing just 3% of the total after tax monthly budget. Which is my whole point; $700 a month for a car is nothing to such households.
Well, we're in the 35% tax bracket and don't finance cars.

Money is still money and cars are pricey negative-return assets.

Paying cash is a behavioral hack we use to force us to acknowledge and face how much we're going to blow on a pricey asset that depreciates.
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Candor
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Candor »

I was inexplicably driving through a Dodge/Jeep dealership last weekend taking a casual look at some of the Wranglers when a nice looking Dodge Ram caught my eye. Not a dually but a sport/off road type but I didn't catch all the ins and outs of the options/model etc. because I didn't linger long when I saw the sticker price of $85,000+. I see lots of nice looking new trucks roaming around with all the bells and whistles and many are driven by younger folks. I wonder how many are wrestling with their finances to squeeze into these trucks. None of my business I suppose and a little OT.
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BatBuckeye
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by BatBuckeye »

One nice thing I appreciated about my '99 Camry was parking. It was still in great shape but I didn't think twice about where I had to leave it when I went to various parks to hike.
When car prices dropped last April I got a new Camry. Prices quickly rebounded mid Summer. I knew I would have to replace the old car with 295,000 miles some day so when the prices dropped I shopped. Now I have to worry about getting dents and dings.
I had not planned on buying new, it just based on prices and a rebate at that time.
I had '99 Camry 15 years and 200,000 quality miles. I had a decent car that got me to work. I was happy to put the savings in my 401-k.
H-Town
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by H-Town »

djeayzonne wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:08 pm
Workaholic wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:41 pm Nobody gets wealthy by buying cheap cars....

People get wealthy by increasing their income and living below their means.

What you fail to mention is the safety of many $2000-$4000 vehicles is lacking compared to even a modern $25K sedan. I know I'd certainly not want to put my family in a vehicle that would not fare well in a crash. Not saying you have to spend $50K on a vehicle but buying some moderately new and with newer safety features is a much better proposition than buying a cheap clunker.

OP- your logic seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Completely agree with this.
Just for ease of calculations, let's take a 500/month car payment, which is only 6,000 a year. After 10 years, we have a whopping 60K.

If that represents the majority of your wealth, you aren't wealthy, don't have much of an income, and with spending 500 on a single round of golf implies that you manage money much worse than the people you seem to feel the need to advise.
Nobody gonna become wealthy if they spend all money they make. House, car, education, and healthcare happen to have expensive price tags compared to income of W-2 employees.

What's the price of a new house nowadays? $200k for starter single family house in a metro area?
What's the price of a new car nowadays? $30k for ordinary Toyota/Honda to $60k for entry level luxury car?
What's the price of college education nowadays? $15-$20k public universities and $20k-$35k private universities?
And don't get me started on overpriced cost of healthcare.

What's the starting salary for a white collar professional job? 50k? Let's say you're pretty good and can get to 100k salary within 3 years, and then 150k within 5 years.

If you were to buy $30k economy new car and $200k starter house, you'd be in a hole fo $230k. It doesn't count student loan hole that you accumulated during college yet. How long will it take you to get out of this hole and save your first million dollar? Do the math and you'll know.

This why we hear about rat race for average working Americans.

Bogleheads members are outliners (top 5% of the bell curve). Many here make $200k or more, and many here save more than 50% of their gross income.
newyorker
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by newyorker »

Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
lazydavid
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by lazydavid »

Candor wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:18 pm I was inexplicably driving through a Dodge/Jeep dealership last weekend taking a casual look at some of the Wranglers when a nice looking Dodge Ram caught my eye. Not a dually but a sport/off road type but I didn't catch all the ins and outs of the options/model etc. because I didn't linger long when I saw the sticker price of $85,000+. I see lots of nice looking new trucks roaming around with all the bells and whistles and many are driven by younger folks. I wonder how many are wrestling with their finances to squeeze into these trucks. None of my business I suppose and a little OT.
The truck you saw was most likely a TRX. This is a special-edition offroad version of the Ram 1500 with a 702-hp supercharged Hellcat engine. It accelerates faster than most sports cars and even a few supercars. By and large, this is not a truck that "Average Joe" is buying.
stoptothink
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by stoptothink »

newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
Are you going to downgrade when you are older? Psychologically, that is very difficult.

If you can "afford" it, who cares? Not much of an issue on Bogleheads, but it certainly is in the general population.
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Devil's Advocate »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Candor wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:18 pm I was inexplicably driving through a Dodge/Jeep dealership last weekend taking a casual look at some of the Wranglers when a nice looking Dodge Ram caught my eye. Not a dually but a sport/off road type but I didn't catch all the ins and outs of the options/model etc. because I didn't linger long when I saw the sticker price of $85,000+. I see lots of nice looking new trucks roaming around with all the bells and whistles and many are driven by younger folks. I wonder how many are wrestling with their finances to squeeze into these trucks. None of my business I suppose and a little OT.
The truck you saw was most likely a TRX. This is a special-edition offroad version of the Ram 1500 with a 702-hp supercharged Hellcat engine. It accelerates faster than most sports cars and even a few supercars. By and large, this is not a truck that "Average Joe" is buying.
You are probably right most aren't driving this version of truck, but have you looked on a lot lately? A truck (4x4) less than 50 grand is tough to find.

And a SUV?? An expedition is pushing 90k!

DA
Workaholic
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Workaholic »

newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
Yes there is...to get the women that are in their 20's and 30's...

My parents winter in Scottsdale, AZ and you wouldn't believe the number of 60/70 year old guys driving a luxury sports car with a 20/30 year old women in the passenger seat who definitely is NOT their daughter...
Workaholic
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Workaholic »

Devil's Advocate wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:37 pm
lazydavid wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Candor wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:18 pm I was inexplicably driving through a Dodge/Jeep dealership last weekend taking a casual look at some of the Wranglers when a nice looking Dodge Ram caught my eye. Not a dually but a sport/off road type but I didn't catch all the ins and outs of the options/model etc. because I didn't linger long when I saw the sticker price of $85,000+. I see lots of nice looking new trucks roaming around with all the bells and whistles and many are driven by younger folks. I wonder how many are wrestling with their finances to squeeze into these trucks. None of my business I suppose and a little OT.
The truck you saw was most likely a TRX. This is a special-edition offroad version of the Ram 1500 with a 702-hp supercharged Hellcat engine. It accelerates faster than most sports cars and even a few supercars. By and large, this is not a truck that "Average Joe" is buying.
You are probably right most aren't driving this version of truck, but have you looked on a lot lately? A truck (4x4) less than 50 grand is tough to find.

And a SUV?? An expedition is pushing 90k!

DA
I'd agree...even a fairly basic XLT F-150 is over $50k without rebates...

To step up to a Lariat with a few bells and whistles, you're easily pushing $60K...
H-Town
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by H-Town »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Candor wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:18 pm I was inexplicably driving through a Dodge/Jeep dealership last weekend taking a casual look at some of the Wranglers when a nice looking Dodge Ram caught my eye. Not a dually but a sport/off road type but I didn't catch all the ins and outs of the options/model etc. because I didn't linger long when I saw the sticker price of $85,000+. I see lots of nice looking new trucks roaming around with all the bells and whistles and many are driven by younger folks. I wonder how many are wrestling with their finances to squeeze into these trucks. None of my business I suppose and a little OT.
The truck you saw was most likely a TRX. This is a special-edition offroad version of the Ram 1500 with a 702-hp supercharged Hellcat engine. It accelerates faster than most sports cars and even a few supercars. By and large, this is not a truck that "Average Joe" is buying.
I was curious and look it up on youtube. This is a very fun video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4kW6CUq5F0
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Devil's Advocate »

Workaholic wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:39 pm
newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
Yes there is...to get the women that are in their 20's and 30's...

My parents winter in Scottsdale, AZ and you wouldn't believe the number of 60/70 year old guys driving a luxury sports car with a 20/30 year old women in the passenger seat who definitely is NOT their daughter...
Probably a few Bogleheads too!!
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Candor »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Candor wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:18 pm I was inexplicably driving through a Dodge/Jeep dealership last weekend taking a casual look at some of the Wranglers when a nice looking Dodge Ram caught my eye. Not a dually but a sport/off road type but I didn't catch all the ins and outs of the options/model etc. because I didn't linger long when I saw the sticker price of $85,000+. I see lots of nice looking new trucks roaming around with all the bells and whistles and many are driven by younger folks. I wonder how many are wrestling with their finances to squeeze into these trucks. None of my business I suppose and a little OT.
The truck you saw was most likely a TRX. This is a special-edition offroad version of the Ram 1500 with a 702-hp supercharged Hellcat engine. It accelerates faster than most sports cars and even a few supercars. By and large, this is not a truck that "Average Joe" is buying.
Yes, that's the one. The sticker sheet was in the seat and upside down so I couldn't read it well to see all the special options. A great looking truck and probably already promised to someone I would guess.
Time is your friend, impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle
MathWizard
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by MathWizard »

Old Guy wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:03 pm I’m 78 years old. I’ve accumulated my wealth. Now I want to spend it.
Good for you! :D
inbox788
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by inbox788 »

phxjcc wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:40 pmMy Texas friend says it is because some feel that they will never be able to buy a house, they decided to buy a fancy car.
They've got it backwards. They'll never be able to buy a house BECAUSE they decided to overspend on fancy cars.

For the price of a couple of fancy cars, they can probably buy a home in a LCOL area.

FWIW, OP is driving average age vehicles (10-13 years old), though likely higher than average mileage. Just think, half the cars you drive past today might be older than what OP is driving.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3345 ... d-12-years

25% of cars in the U.S. are at least sixteen years old as vehicle age hits record high
PUBLISHED TUE, JUL 28 2020
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/25perce ... -high.html
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Workaholic wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:39 pm
newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
Yes there is...to get the women that are in their 20's and 30's...

My parents winter in Scottsdale, AZ and you wouldn't believe the number of 60/70 year old guys driving a luxury sports car with a 20/30 year old women in the passenger seat who definitely is NOT their daughter...
Not a daughter, probably a "niece." :D

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
newyorker
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by newyorker »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 pm
newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
Are you going to downgrade when you are older? Psychologically, that is very difficult.

If you can "afford" it, who cares? Not much of an issue on Bogleheads, but it certainly is in the general population.

Maybe maybe not.

Just wanted to make a point that some bogleheads save up money as if they can take it to the grave.

Life is too short for that. Enjoy it when young. Some people say $1000 in 20s is worth $50000 in 70s. But you know what, I dont care. I will have more fun spending 1k in my 20s than spending 50k in nursing home.
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:46 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 pm
newyorker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm Its all priorities. I drive 200k+ car. Dont wanna drive a junk in my prime 30s. No point driving ferrari when you are old and bald lol.
Are you going to downgrade when you are older? Psychologically, that is very difficult.

If you can "afford" it, who cares? Not much of an issue on Bogleheads, but it certainly is in the general population.

Maybe maybe not.

Just wanted to make a point that some bogleheads save up money as if they can take it to the grave.

Life is too short for that. Enjoy it when young. Some people say $1000 in 20s is worth $50000 in 70s. But you know what, I dont care. I will have more fun spending 1k in my 20s than spending 50k in nursing home.
Life is for living. DW and I did not have any desire to live a life that just piled up dollars. We provided as full a life as we could for DDs. Not just in material things, but learning experiences. Our savings were removed from our paychecks and were invested immediately, and automatically. When our salaries went up, our savings went up in lockstep.

Thing is, you can drive something other than a hooptie, you can live in a nice home, you can help your children with college, and STILL have a comfortable retirement. This is especially true if you have some drive and initiative to acquire more education and improve your earnings ability. Even a low savings rate on higher earnings works to your benefit.

Spend money on education that leads to a better salary. That is an easier task than having uber savings rate.

Max out your opportunities that will lead to better earnings before you max out your savings. Education can be pricy, but ignorance is very expensive.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by watchnerd »

If you're going to spend six-to-seven figures on a car, at least get something genuinely cool.

My neighbor has a 1967 Shelby Cobra.

I'd buy one of those any day over a current production super car.
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Slacker
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Slacker »

First car at 19 cost me $600. Had an oil leak and I had no idea. Oil light comes on and a mile later engine seized. Car lasted me 3 months.

Next car cost $900. Was just fine for the next 6 months of ownership, but I joined the military and left it at home.

In the military, a staff sgt sold me a broken junker and pretended it was perfectly fine. Paid him $1500 for a 10 yr old car that I later learned had some mechanical defects that doomed the car to only another 9 months of life. I'm still incredulous that a NCO took advantage of a brand new private like that.

Next car I purchased for $2700 from friends. This one was fine but then they had major car troubles with the family car they had replaced it with so I sold it back to them 9 months later for $2200.

After that, I decided to only buy brand new from the dealer. Paid $15,000 on a 4% loan over 4 years. That car lasted me 12 years until it was totaled by an inattentive driver (in the other vehicle that hit me).

Replaced that one with another brand new car that cost $22,000 at 1.9% over 5 years. It lasted 11 years before I passed it on to my eldest child. Still going strong several years later.

Seems like buying and enjoying a new car had been the same cost as buying old junkers on a yearly basis considering maintenance & repair cost differences, insurance, and gas cost. My first 3 cars couldn't get 20mpg even if you put it in neutral and rolled them down hill. My first brand new car easily hit 40mpg on the highway at 70mph.

Our current vehicle, purchased for $26,000 after tax credits, will hopefully last us at least 12 years.

I've mostly had bad experiences buying old cars. Even without detailing all the systems not essential to driving that have been broken on them (windows that won't roll down, emissions system equipment bypassed, torn up seats, barely working ac, heater cores that give out on the highway requiring emergency shut down of the vehicle to prevent catastrophic failure, etc).
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Tingting1013 »

Slacker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:56 pm
Our current vehicle, purchased for $26,000 after tax credits, will hopefully last us at least 12 years.
Electric vehicle? If so put the VIN through Carvana and see how much you could get for it now!
New Providence
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by New Providence »

In old movies or old pictures you rarely see new cars.

Now, I look around. Never see a car older than 10 yrs. Never see, for example an old Benzo or old Bmer around. I go to the mall and don't see one single clunker.

It is strange.
stocknoob4111
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by stocknoob4111 »

TLDR
I bought a new car in 2017, paid $27K for it and it's been a royal waste of money, I don't even drive due to Covid and it has all of 16.1K miles on it so it just sits there collects dust and depreciates. Well, lesson learned - cars are the biggest waste of money, you may as well take money and set it on fire.

To make matters worse, someone bumped me and ran away a couple years ago, another person dinged my driver side door and also ran away and there is a problem with the Blind Spot Sensor that is estimated to cost hundreds to fix (so more money $$$).
DownToThis
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by DownToThis »

Interesting topic, I just traded in my 2010 highlander with 165,000 miles for a 2021 Kia telluride and couldn't be happier. It's great to drive (so much quieter) and I love all the cameras that provide surround views. The Toyota was good and I liked not having a car payment but driving a new car is definitely worth it (IMO). Plus it makes my commute easier to deal with!
Slacker
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Slacker »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:38 pm TLDR
I bought a new car in 2017, paid $27K for it and it's been a royal waste of money, I don't even drive due to Covid and it has all of 16.1K miles on it so it just sits there collects dust and depreciates. Well, lesson learned - cars are the biggest waste of money, you may as well take money and set it on fire.

To make matters worse, someone bumped me and ran away a couple years ago, another person dinged my driver side door and also ran away and there is a problem with the Blind Spot Sensor that is estimated to cost hundreds to fix (so more money $$$).
Depending on the state you live in UIM coverage may cover hit and run. I only know it is covered in WA but not covered in AZ.
azianbob
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by azianbob »

I think there is a balance between spending too much money on a car (wasting money) vs spending too little and in effect having to repair (wasting time) and potentially getting in an accident and getting hurt or dying.

For me, it would be annoying to buy a $2000 car and then have to be stranded several times a year cuz something breaks down and I have to go in for repair, or its so old it doesn't have things like a backup camera or airbags that would make it dangerous. Or the car is so old it has bad airbags so my family gets seriously injured in an accident.

However I do agree with the OP that instead of buying/leasing some fancy luxury car if you were to buy something cheaper and invest the rest your wealth increases over time.

My personal strategy is to buy cars that are 2-3 years old (so have most of the depreciation gone) and then maintain them well and drive them for 10+ years until the repair frequency or cost becomes counterproductive and I will sell and buy another 2-3 year old car. I do not prefer to buy luxury cars (repair and maintenance are high) but still aim for cars that have nicer features for my comfort and safety (camera, airbags, ABS, leather seats, etc). I also tend to focus on sedans as they have the best deals, as trucks and SUVs have a premium built into them since everyone likes them so much. Trucks an SUVs are also more money to insure. The only time I would buy an SUV is one that is built on a frame (4Runner, Tahoe, etc) as those have a tendency to last a very long time.
mushripu
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by mushripu »

To each his own!
Got two kids. This from pre corona days. One kid has to be picked up from pre school and other kid from a bus stop 3 miles from home. Wife works 30 miles away and can never make it back to pick up kids. I cannot think of taking a chance with a 2k-4k car. It is basically apple cart ready to topple over and lead to a bad next day. The day care people are anal about kid staying there after 6 pm and threaten to discontinue. The kid if does not get picked up from bus stop would be taken back to school and they shall start calling emergency contacts and eventually child services.. cannot do with 2000 dollar car.
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Cycle »

watchnerd wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:56 am
Cycle wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:35 am

That being said I'm going to purchase a $5k bakfiet this year if the ebike tax credit bill comes thru, that's almost a car... Just less obnoxious and not horrible for the environment like EVs
I didn't know electric bakfiet existed.

How do you charge them?

Can they use auto EV charging stations that exist in parking lots etc?
Just pop the battery out and charge it wherever one has an outlet. Or run an extension cord. I would think one just charges between uses, since the range is longer than we would ever take one.

For people doing commercial work, like Netherlands post, the bikes hold multiple battery packs.

I was actually going to buy an acoustic one, but if there is a 30% tax credit on ebikes might as well go electric. We have a cargo bike shop here with all the brands, urban arrow, Larry vs harry, bullet, work cycles, yuba, reise and muller.

We have decent off street cycle paths here, which make this a safe alternative to a car for local trips with the family. They just put a new one in that will allow me to bike 7.5 miles to the zoo all on off street cycle paths or car free transit ways. Very European.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
quantAndHold
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by quantAndHold »

New Providence wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:38 pm In old movies or old pictures you rarely see new cars.

Now, I look around. Never see a car older than 10 yrs. Never see, for example an old Benzo or old Bmer around. I go to the mall and don't see one single clunker.

It is strange.
A quick Google tells me that the average age of cars in the US is 11.9 years, and 25% of cars are 16 years or older. So they’re out there, even if you’re not noticing them. I see old cars all the time.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
Kookaburra
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Kookaburra »

“Sorry is the fool who trades his soul for a corvette
Thinks he’ll get the girl he’ll only get the mechanic
What’s missing? He is living a day he’ll soon forget.”

Soon Forget, by Pearl Jam
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by bogledogle »

quantAndHold wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:02 pm
New Providence wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:38 pm In old movies or old pictures you rarely see new cars.

Now, I look around. Never see a car older than 10 yrs. Never see, for example an old Benzo or old Bmer around. I go to the mall and don't see one single clunker.

It is strange.
A quick Google tells me that the average age of cars in the US is 11.9 years, and 25% of cars are 16 years or older. So they’re out there, even if you’re not noticing them. I see old cars all the time.
Also, older cars sucked. Paint would peel off and metal would rust. You don't see that these days - cars have higher quality now.
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by cshell2 »

New Providence wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:38 pm In old movies or old pictures you rarely see new cars.

Now, I look around. Never see a car older than 10 yrs. Never see, for example an old Benzo or old Bmer around. I go to the mall and don't see one single clunker.

It is strange.
Strange is right. I'm wondering where you live that you never see a car older than a 2011 around? Definitely not my experience.
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sunny_socal
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by sunny_socal »

I've driven such cars, mostly when I was younger.

Now I tend to buy new and hang on to the car. I do my own maintenance, that's where I "save." Brakes, fluids, filters, lube, rotations - everything except putting on new tires.

Life's too short to be driving a POS. I appreciate things like auto high beams, good electronics & connectivity, the safety features, the comfort and above all, the reliability. Honda & Toyota in our family.

Oh - and I buy coffee from a coffee shop! I know I could squirrel away that $2/day as well but I've known several people who have died before they hit 50 (usually cancer, not a virus.) I don't know how long I have so I might as enjoy the days I'm given.
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Slacker »

Tingting1013 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Slacker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:56 pm
Our current vehicle, purchased for $26,000 after tax credits, will hopefully last us at least 12 years.
Electric vehicle? If so put the VIN through Carvana and see how much you could get for it now!
I did this on your advice and was surprised to see our 2017 vehicle was potentially worth almost 20,000 on carvana. $6000 for 3.5 years of use and 38,000 miles. Of course this was only for my own entertainment since we have no desire to sell our car at this time.
Tingting1013
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Re: The $2000-$4000 Car :) This made me wealthy so jump on board

Post by Tingting1013 »

Slacker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:29 pm
Tingting1013 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Slacker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:56 pm
Our current vehicle, purchased for $26,000 after tax credits, will hopefully last us at least 12 years.
Electric vehicle? If so put the VIN through Carvana and see how much you could get for it now!
I did this on your advice and was surprised to see our 2017 vehicle was potentially worth almost 20,000 on carvana. $6000 for 3.5 years of use and 38,000 miles. Of course this was only for my own entertainment since we have no desire to sell our car at this time.
You can get a brand new EV / PHEV for $20k OTD after tax credits. Nissan Leaf and Honda Clarity are the top contenders.
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