Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

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michaelingp
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by michaelingp »

jlawrence01 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:11 pm

My 2007 Toyota Corolla has 160k miles on it after this weekend. Since I have moved to Tucson from Chicago, I use a Toyota dealership and the same service rep all the time. Whenever he recommends a repair, he will let me know if there is a serious safety issue which will be repaired that day, whether a repair can wait for another 5000 miles, and he lets me know the status of my brake pads, tires and battery.

Three years ago, he had a child and I had to use another service rep and I received a laundry list of things that could be done. I looked at the guy and just asked him what was essential and nothing was. So i paid for the oil change and that was it.
This is pretty much exactly my strategy with dealers. They will "suggest" a lot of expensive stuff, but for reasons I don't totally understand, they back off quickly if you ask them "Is this a safety issue?" or "Can this wait another 6 months?" Usually I just tell them, "Thanks for checking, I'll try to save up the money for it." (That's a little white lie, but I figure they weren't totally honest with me either.)

That said, I had a 2004 Honda CR-V with 186,000 miles that was incredibly reliable over its lifetime, and then seemed to just hit the wall in terms of strange problems I didn't want to fix myself. So I sold it to CarMax for $1,800 which seemed a lot to me. Apparently there is more of a market for 16 y.o. cars with 186,000 miles and the check engine light on than I expected. We bought a new car and are over the moon with safety features such as adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, side-ways looking backup sensors and automatic braking before a collision.
GG1273
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by GG1273 »

GG1273 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:32 pm I've had Corolla's most of my adult life but generally, I'd get to 110,000 of my miles (150,000 total) and look for a newer one. I find the 4 to 5 year old ones to be negotiable and try to keep the mileage at 60K or less when shopping.

I finally traded my 2008 in 2019 for a Camry which I like too but if money was an issue, I'd have worked on getting a used Corolla.

Can use autotrader.com to look around, go to advanced search and set the priorities you want, mileage, year, miles from your house, price. Great tool and usually carries a much larger selection than other car sites. I tend to only use Dealers with at least a limited warranty included in the price.

Advanced search page https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... ced-search

In general, I tend to find that Hondas are more common on the site than Toyotas even though Toyota outsells them. A co-worker of mine needed to find something last winter and simply looked for her price range and got a good deal on a 6-year old Accord with just over 40,000 miles on it.

Best of luck...

Forgot to mention and it is an important one for negotiating, take a look at the CarFax report to get an idea of how long the used car has been on the lot

This 2017 Accord w/39,000 miles, near me, has been on lot since end of Aug 2020, great tool to use to say that you'd offer several thousand less than they are asking to take it off their hands

https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/a ... F6a_QlgtC4
Jeepergeo
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by Jeepergeo »

Well, if you buy a new-to-you used car, it too will come with a history that could be good or bad. You know the history of your car.

At 136,000 miles, that car is still a teenager and has more miles left in it...300K miles is not unusual for a well cared for Corolla.

Are those action items from the dealer? If so, most are likely very conservative and don't need action in the near future. Many dealers quote action items not based on an inspection, but rather based on mileage and time and those action items may not apply to a low mileage, well maintained car.

The car is perfect for a new teen driver which I suspect won't be driving too far from home. Get the teen AAA coverage and if the car breaks down they can get towed home or jump started.

Find a good local independent shop and take the car in for a check up and see if they agree with the list, and have them tell you which items, if any, need to be done now and which can be held off...tell them you are on a tight budget.
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Newlife
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by Newlife »

Thank you so much again for your valuable comments and suggestions.

I was given the following information by an independent auto shop that recommends me to do the repairs.
1. Alternator (Soon): The alternator charging rate found to be slightly weak. It fluctuates from 13.5 to 13.7.
2. Serpentine Belts: The drive belt interior housing found to have slight cracks. Very minor. The exterior housing seems to be in fair condition. Due to cracks showing on the interior belt, replace the serpentine belt when possible.
3. Suspension Structs (Front): Both Sides: The front struts have hydraulic fluid seeping around the top shaft of the structs tower. The boot is also torn. The structs have played when pressure is applied. Replace both front struts, complete assembly.
4. Stabilizer Links (Front) Both Sides: The bushing on the front stabilizer links is torn. Grease is seeping out. Replace both sway bar links with front struts replacement.
5. Rear Struts (Both Sides). The rear struts conditions are fair. Due to age and worn front struts, replace both rear struts with front struts assembly to even ride quality and tires, suspension components wear.
Future recommendations
6. Steering rack and pinion: minor fluid resides is found on the right side of the string rack boot. This indicates failing or worn seals inside the shaft. Replacement of string rack when issue worsens.
7. The rear brake show estimate life span at 30-40%. Recommend to have brake service when show life reaches 20%.
8. Front cv half shaft is grease seeping out from the inner shaft boot. Replacement of front cv half shaft when possible.
The information might answer some of your questions.
(I typed the information earlier but did not get saved.)
The battery light is not on yet. I can still play the radio. I am going to a different shop for a second opinion. I will make a decision afterwards.

Thank you very much for the information about tax credits for EVs. Unfortunately, I am in San Diego and nothing is available here. I hope that the federal tax credits will be renewed for Telsa.
Topic Author
Newlife
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by Newlife »

Thank you so much for the tips about how to buy a used car.
We'll See
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by We'll See »

Newlife wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:57 pm Dear Bogleheads,

I would like to seek your help in making a decision, especially from those who know cars well. I have a 2003 Toyota Corolla with 136,000 miles. This is my only car. I was planning to buy a new car at the end of the year and give Corolla to my daughter early next year when she turns 16. However, I was told that I need to fix several items.

Now
Serpentine Belt, $81.16
Suspension Strut Complete Assembly R&R (Front, Both Sides), $553.78
Suspension Strut Complete Assembly R&R (Rear, Both Sides), $505.53
Stabilizer Bar Link Kit R&R (Both Sides), $132.13
Alternator R&R, $312.71

Future recommendations
Steering Rack and pinion: $795
Rear brakes: $200

Questions
1. Should I repair the car? The repair price is more than the car's value. The mechanic told me that Corolla can be driven by 300,000 miles. Will I have more repairs coming up? Is it worthwhile to repair the car?
2. Should I just fix the alternator now? I need a car before I buy one. Then sell the car after I get a new one.
3. Rear struts conditions are fair but recommended to replace them along with front structs for even rides. Is this a fair recommendation?

I am the first owner of the car. My husband purchased it. He died one year ago so it is sad to let go of the car. However, I don't think he would want me to spend more money if it is not worthwhile. I appreciate your suggestions/ideas.

Newlife
I think it's funny that when children are newborns and toddlers parents put them in the latest and greatest car seats and generally purchase and drive them around in vehicles with high safety ratings. Then once they are old enough to drive parents give them the old crappy run down cars that have little to no safety features.

OP, if you have the money, put your daughter into something newer and safer and sell or donate this old car.
iamlucky13
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by iamlucky13 »

We'll See wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:26 am I think it's funny that when children are newborns and toddlers parents put them in the latest and greatest car seats and generally purchase and drive them around in vehicles with high safety ratings. Then once they are old enough to drive parents give them the old crappy run down cars that have little to no safety features.

OP, if you have the money, put your daughter into something newer and safer and sell or donate this old car.
A highly rated car seat costs around $200-300. They often get put into brand new cars with all the latest safety features, because after all, infants are more vulnerable to injury than teens and adults, and because many families are upgrading their cars at around the same time they are having children.

16 years later, that same car is old and possibly run down, yet still worth 10-20 times as much as the car seat ever was. Baring any failures left unrepaired, it still has all the safety features it originally had (it's hyperbolic to say little to no safety features). Buying a car enough newer that it would have significantly different safety features is likely to raise the imbalance in the cost comparison being made with that car seat to 40 times or more.

Obviously safety is a high enough priority to some people that they'll make financial sacrifices to regularly attain incremental improvements in safety, but for the different magnitudes of costs we're discussing and other considerations like relative susceptibility to injury, it's no surprise to me that others will continue to accept what has been established as their baseline level of safety.

Not to mention, if the car is too dangerous for the owner to use for themselves or their family, how can anyone possibly recommend foisting off such a death trap on someone else's family?
chipperd
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by chipperd »

Jeepergeo wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:32 pm Well, if you buy a new-to-you used car, it too will come with a history that could be good or bad. You know the history of your car.

At 136,000 miles, that car is still a teenager and has more miles left in it...300K miles is not unusual for a well cared for Corolla.

Are those action items from the dealer? If so, most are likely very conservative and don't need action in the near future. Many dealers quote action items not based on an inspection, but rather based on mileage and time and those action items may not apply to a low mileage, well maintained car.

The car is perfect for a new teen driver which I suspect won't be driving too far from home. Get the teen AAA coverage and if the car breaks down they can get towed home or jump started.

Find a good local independent shop and take the car in for a check up and see if they agree with the list, and have them tell you which items, if any, need to be done now and which can be held off...tell them you are on a tight budget.

Where are people getting the highlighted info above? I can't find it anywhere, in fact:
Repairs won't stop at the list you posted (lots of rubber based parts in the suspension will need replacement soon as well) and the Corolla isn't on the list of the top 20 cars predicted to go for 300,000 miles.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Do yourself a favor and find something safer and likely more reliable to put your daughter in. I'm all in favor of giving a beater to a kid to bang around town in early on in their driving career, but this would be a bridge too far for me.
New Providence
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by New Providence »

We'll See wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:26 am
Newlife wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:57 pm Dear Bogleheads,

I would like to seek your help in making a decision, especially from those who know cars well. I have a 2003 Toyota Corolla with 136,000 miles. This is my only car. I was planning to buy a new car at the end of the year and give Corolla to my daughter early next year when she turns 16. However, I was told that I need to fix several items.

Now
Serpentine Belt, $81.16
Suspension Strut Complete Assembly R&R (Front, Both Sides), $553.78
Suspension Strut Complete Assembly R&R (Rear, Both Sides), $505.53
Stabilizer Bar Link Kit R&R (Both Sides), $132.13
Alternator R&R, $312.71

Future recommendations
Steering Rack and pinion: $795
Rear brakes: $200

Questions
1. Should I repair the car? The repair price is more than the car's value. The mechanic told me that Corolla can be driven by 300,000 miles. Will I have more repairs coming up? Is it worthwhile to repair the car?
2. Should I just fix the alternator now? I need a car before I buy one. Then sell the car after I get a new one.
3. Rear struts conditions are fair but recommended to replace them along with front structs for even rides. Is this a fair recommendation?

I am the first owner of the car. My husband purchased it. He died one year ago so it is sad to let go of the car. However, I don't think he would want me to spend more money if it is not worthwhile. I appreciate your suggestions/ideas.

Newlife
I think it's funny that when children are newborns and toddlers parents put them in the latest and greatest car seats and generally purchase and drive them around in vehicles with high safety ratings. Then once they are old enough to drive parents give them the old crappy run down cars that have little to no safety features.

OP, if you have the money, put your daughter into something newer and safer and sell or donate this old car.
I agree. Safety of the daughter may be more valuable than money.
iamlucky13
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Location: Western Washington

Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by iamlucky13 »

chipperd wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:39 pm
Where are people getting the highlighted info above? I can't find it anywhere, in fact:
Repairs won't stop at the list you posted (lots of rubber based parts in the suspension will need replacement soon as well) and the Corolla isn't on the list of the top 20 cars predicted to go for 300,000 miles.
Are you referring to this analysis?
https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study

It's not the top 20 or over 300,000, but the closest I found. They identified models where over 2.5% of for sale listings are over 200,000 miles. I would not call that a great method of determining longevity, but probably a decent rough estimate. The list comprises 16 models.

From that list, 75% are pickups, or pickup based body-on-frame SUV's. That makes some sense, considering trucks, including their engines and transmissions, are generally built for heavier duty use.

Of the rest, 3/4 are Toyota's. The fourth is a Honda.

The fact that Toyota comprises fully half of that list is good example of why people have high expectations for longevity from them. My own Corolla was totaled at only around 160,000 miles by a driver running a stop sign. At the time, it was running perfectly.
inbox788
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by inbox788 »

chipperd wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:39 pm
Jeepergeo wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:32 pmAt 136,000 miles, that car is still a teenager and has more miles left in it...300K miles is not unusual for a well cared for Corolla.
Where are people getting the highlighted info above? I can't find it anywhere, in fact:
Repairs won't stop at the list you posted (lots of rubber based parts in the suspension will need replacement soon as well) and the Corolla isn't on the list of the top 20 cars predicted to go for 300,000 miles.
Vehicles hitting 300,000 is unusual (period).

Only 1% of vehicles make it over 200k, 0.03% hit 300k. Not sure how 0.2%+ for individual models listed vs 0.03% translates to twice as likely in the comment, but the Tundra, 4runner, Yukon XL, Suburban and Expedition 0.2%, Sequoia 0.4% and top is the Landcruise at 1.4%.

Vehicles most likely to hit 300,000 miles
https://www.autoblog.com/photos/photos- ... 000-miles/

The Corolla is on some lists that can make it to 300k, but that doesn't mean all will make it or that there aren't significant repairs and preventive maintenance along the way. OPs Corolla isn't likely to make it, and it does look like it's about time for regular car owners to give up on it and pass it on to someone who can do more themselves so it's more cost effective.

25 Cars That Can Take You to 300,000 Miles
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career ... iles.html/

21 Cars That Will Last Longer Than 300,000 Miles
https://www.hotcars.com/most-reliable-cars-last-miles/

There are quite a number of 200k vehicles still running and being bought and sold. Currently, 16,275 Results on Autotrader and 974 (39 pages less one car) over 300k. 3% (figure above 1% vs 0.03%) of 16,275 is 488, so twice as many listed as would be expected in this sampling.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... Records=25

1,439 Honda (several in the 3rd page made it 300k+; 25/page, so over 50)
2,738 Toyota (over 6 pages; 150+)
2,833 Chevrolet (had to go to page 8 before it dropped below 300k; 175+)
84 BMW (handful listed over 300k)
3,581 Ford (page 11; over 250!)
1 Tesla (S 202,089 miles, $23k, https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... =580716521)

Actual number are lower because I found a high number errors; several newer cars probably extra digit entered. Ford and Chevy helped by lots of trucks and vans.

I think this Accord with 543,254 miles currently holds the crown if you're in the market for an Extremely High Mileage Vehicle.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... =579397419
https://www.tameronhonda.com/vehicle-de ... 344A014100 [click the Autocheck button below Test Drive; Odometer Check and Detailed Vehicle History sections]
jlawrence01
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by jlawrence01 »

michaelingp wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:50 pm
This is pretty much exactly my strategy with dealers. They will "suggest" a lot of expensive stuff, but for reasons I don't totally understand, they back off quickly if you ask them "Is this a safety issue?" or "Can this wait another 6 months?" Usually I just tell them, "Thanks for checking, I'll try to save up the money for it." (That's a little white lie, but I figure they weren't totally honest with me either.)

That said, I had a 2004 Honda CR-V with 186,000 miles that was incredibly reliable over its lifetime, and then seemed to just hit the wall in terms of strange problems I didn't want to fix myself. So I sold it to CarMax for $1,800 which seemed a lot to me. Apparently there is more of a market for 16 y.o. cars with 186,000 miles and the check engine light on than I expected. We bought a new car and are over the moon with safety features such as adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, side-ways looking backup sensors and automatic braking before a collision.

One practice that has saved me literally THOUSANDS of dollars has been telling a car repair place that I just don't have the money right now. Surprisingly, I have never had anyone continue to apply pressure after that. This especially works when you are in a high pressure environment and you just want to get your car out of the shop before they work on the car. That practice
allows you to call around and at least get quotes for the repairs. That was especially useful when dealing with GM dealers.

Now that I am at 160k miles, I could also note that I am getting rid of the car soon.

=========================================

I wish that a lot of the parents who are always advocating buying a new car for their little price or princess would instead invest in SIGNIFICANT driver's education and significant one-on-one test drives with their children. All of the safety devices don't mean a thing when you have someone who lacks any significant behind the wheel experience in real life traffic..

I am currently watching a YouTuber who has under eight hours of driver's education driving a Toyota Vios (think Yaris) around the countryside. She always has the car filled with family members but has difficulty backing up the car while missing ditches, running bicyclists off the road and the like. And this is all done while vlogging.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by Mr. Rumples »

My vehicle is now 20 years old. Last year, I spent less than $70 on her - oil, a belt and a light. She has less than 100,000 original miles.

Two days ago, the check engine light came on; it was a small glitch a friend who is a retired mechanic fixed. Yesterday, it wouldn't start, again he fixed it and said it was nothing.**

I know I need a new timing belt, water pump and so forth. The repair is going to be about $1200. I'm going to do it. My "rule of thumb" is that if repairs cost less than a year's car payment, I will fix it. In this case, if the repairs make the vehicle last three months, they have paid for themselves.

Test driving a new vehicle, I don't like all the bells and whistles which seem standard. I like not having to worry about every ding on the exterior or all the dirt I bring into the interior. This spring's project is to detail her - myself.

There is no right answer. My neighbor is now 90. She has trouble turning her neck, so she got a newer model used vehicle. For her, the new safety features are a great help.

** Had it been something major, I was ready to go and get a new vehicle. In my mind, the Forester fits my needs and having "test driven" my niece's, I like the handling. Getting in and out of my current vehicle is starting to get to be an issue since it sits so close to the ground.
dknightd
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by dknightd »

You are in a tough situation, fix old car, or buy new car. Never a fun time.
As I understand it, you have one car you can still use. You have one driver (you). You are probably busy, and more or less need a car. You have a child that might want a car at the end of the year.
My normal rule of thumb is if it costs more to fix a car than the car is worth, then it is time to move on.
But there might be sentimental value to this car, which complicates things.

Honestly if I was you, I'd consider driving into a Toyota dealer, test drive the new Corolla, if you like it, explain your situation, trade in your old car, and drive away in a new one.

We had to do this recently. Had a 2007 yaris. Wife loved the car. But it was rusting, and needed other work. The plan was to replace it next year. But it would not pass inspection (do they have safety inspections in your state?) so it needed to be fixed or replaced this month. It was time to replace. Only 14 years old, not ideal, but acceptable. She liked the Honda HRV, they gave us a good deal, and $2k for a car that was essentially scrap metal and spare parts.

I'm trying to think what I'd like my wife to do if I die before her. I'd want her to have a nice new car. Drive it into the ground. Rinse and repeat. Same for the kids.

Edit: a 2003 car has earned its respect and owes you nothing. I was disappointed the yaris only lasted 14 years.
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Still working on mortgage payoff.
chipperd
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by chipperd »

inbox788 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:52 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:39 pm
Jeepergeo wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:32 pmAt 136,000 miles, that car is still a teenager and has more miles left in it...300K miles is not unusual for a well cared for Corolla.
Where are people getting the highlighted info above? I can't find it anywhere, in fact:
Repairs won't stop at the list you posted (lots of rubber based parts in the suspension will need replacement soon as well) and the Corolla isn't on the list of the top 20 cars predicted to go for 300,000 miles.
Vehicles hitting 300,000 is unusual (period).

Only 1% of vehicles make it over 200k, 0.03% hit 300k. Not sure how 0.2%+ for individual models listed vs 0.03% translates to twice as likely in the comment, but the Tundra, 4runner, Yukon XL, Suburban and Expedition 0.2%, Sequoia 0.4% and top is the Landcruise at 1.4%.

Vehicles most likely to hit 300,000 miles
https://www.autoblog.com/photos/photos- ... 000-miles/

The Corolla is on some lists that can make it to 300k, but that doesn't mean all will make it or that there aren't significant repairs and preventive maintenance along the way. OPs Corolla isn't likely to make it, and it does look like it's about time for regular car owners to give up on it and pass it on to someone who can do more themselves so it's more cost effective.

25 Cars That Can Take You to 300,000 Miles
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career ... iles.html/

21 Cars That Will Last Longer Than 300,000 Miles
https://www.hotcars.com/most-reliable-cars-last-miles/

There are quite a number of 200k vehicles still running and being bought and sold. Currently, 16,275 Results on Autotrader and 974 (39 pages less one car) over 300k. 3% (figure above 1% vs 0.03%) of 16,275 is 488, so twice as many listed as would be expected in this sampling.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... Records=25

1,439 Honda (several in the 3rd page made it 300k+; 25/page, so over 50)
2,738 Toyota (over 6 pages; 150+)
2,833 Chevrolet (had to go to page 8 before it dropped below 300k; 175+)
84 BMW (handful listed over 300k)
3,581 Ford (page 11; over 250!)
1 Tesla (S 202,089 miles, $23k, https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... =580716521)

Actual number are lower because I found a high number errors; several newer cars probably extra digit entered. Ford and Chevy helped by lots of trucks and vans.

I think this Accord with 543,254 miles currently holds the crown if you're in the market for an Extremely High Mileage Vehicle.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... =579397419
https://www.tameronhonda.com/vehicle-de ... 344A014100 [click the Autocheck button below Test Drive; Odometer Check and Detailed Vehicle History sections]
Thanks for researching and bringing some facts to an otherwise anecdotal discussion.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
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goonie
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by goonie »

I just noticed this page on the IIHS site and thought it could be helpful.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehicles-for-teens
Topic Author
Newlife
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Re: Repair or Replace 2003 Toyota Corolla

Post by Newlife »

I just noticed this page on the IIHS site and thought it could be helpful.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehicles-for-teens

Thank you so much for the helpful list. This is what I am looking for.
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