Family car

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
p14175
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:33 am
Location: Now in southeast Arizona

Re: Family car

Post by p14175 »

I'm going to go out there and suggest a used Chevy Suburban. You say you will only be using it for trips so you may as well get a vehicle that is comfortable and can carry everything without having to install a rooftop carrier and a basket hanging off the rear.
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

p14175 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:31 pm I'm going to go out there and suggest a used Chevy Suburban. You say you will only be using it for trips so you may as well get a vehicle that is comfortable and can carry everything without having to install a rooftop carrier and a basket hanging off the rear.
I agree. I think for decades the Suburban has probably been the best all-purpose family hauler you can buy. Everyone suggests a minivan but the Suburban is much more capable at about everything. Not to mention you can tow a boat/trailer/camper/etc. I really couldn't think of a better family vehicle than this. If we ever expand ours enough, an Escalade ESV is definitely on my short list for the DW. :beer
stoptothink
Posts: 9160
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Family car

Post by stoptothink »

Workaholic wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:38 pm
p14175 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:31 pm I'm going to go out there and suggest a used Chevy Suburban. You say you will only be using it for trips so you may as well get a vehicle that is comfortable and can carry everything without having to install a rooftop carrier and a basket hanging off the rear.
I agree. I think for decades the Suburban has probably been the best all-purpose family hauler you can buy. Everyone suggests a minivan but the Suburban is much more capable at about everything. Not to mention you can tow a boat/trailer/camper/etc. I really couldn't think of a better family vehicle than this. If we ever expand ours enough, an Escalade ESV is definitely on my short list for the DW. :beer
If you've got $55k+ (Suburban) or $80k+ (Escalade) laying around. I'll take the minivan.
kgw
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:23 am

Re: Family car

Post by kgw »

Agree with one of the previous posts - the Tesla Model Y 7 seater might meet your requirements.

Also, might want to consider a gently used or CPO Model S with a 7 seat configuration. You can post a “looking to buy” on the Tesla Motors Club forum under the “Tesla for sale” thread. I went this route.

Another option I would consider is a used Lexus RX 450L (hybrid) with second row captains chairs.
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:09 pm
Workaholic wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:38 pm
p14175 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:31 pm I'm going to go out there and suggest a used Chevy Suburban. You say you will only be using it for trips so you may as well get a vehicle that is comfortable and can carry everything without having to install a rooftop carrier and a basket hanging off the rear.
I agree. I think for decades the Suburban has probably been the best all-purpose family hauler you can buy. Everyone suggests a minivan but the Suburban is much more capable at about everything. Not to mention you can tow a boat/trailer/camper/etc. I really couldn't think of a better family vehicle than this. If we ever expand ours enough, an Escalade ESV is definitely on my short list for the DW. :beer
If you've got $55k+ (Suburban) or $80k+ (Escalade) laying around. I'll take the minivan.
The best choice isn't usually the cheapest :beer . The minivan is good at one singular task which is hauling people. The Suburban can do that as well as tow boats/campers/etc and has a capable 4WD system if you go up in the mountains or somewhere the terrain isn't perfect.

I don't mind spending $80K on a vehicle that has everything I want and with how well they sell, it appears many other don't have that issue either.
Topic Author
stanthecaddy
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:11 pm

Re: Family car

Post by stanthecaddy »

Thanks everyone so much! After looking at everyone’s recommendations, turns out that a minivan was what I needed. The Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid is my top contender now. I see the Limited trim in my area for around $45k. Going to test drive soon
Tingting1013
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Re: Family car

Post by Tingting1013 »

stanthecaddy wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:28 pm Thanks everyone so much! After looking at everyone’s recommendations, turns out that a minivan was what I needed. The Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid is my top contender now. I see the Limited trim in my area for around $45k. Going to test drive soon
Great choice! Good luck
angelescrest
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: MCOL, no state income tax

Re: Family car

Post by angelescrest »

stanthecaddy wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:22 am Lots of great responses. Thanks everyone. I’ll admit I didn’t consider minivans merely for the “cool” factor. I suppose I can’t really hide the soccer dad I am.

It does seem to me that the technologies are rapidly changing and there’s some inherent unpredictability to it. I usually buy a car and run it to the ground 15 years later. But now might be a good time to lease.
Father of two here. Used to drive a sports car. Cant tell you how much I love the Minivan, it’s been the best thing I’ve ever purchased for the family. The sliding doors take the cake. The thing most people don’t emphasize is the visibility for the kids. Sedans and SUVs don’t allow the kids to see much, but a minivan? They can see the world through their massive and low side windows. Super easy to get in and out of. Happy kids, less stressed dad. Hauling champion.

Sienna hybrid would be my choice.
teCh0010
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Family car

Post by teCh0010 »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:09 pm
Workaholic wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:38 pm
p14175 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:31 pm I'm going to go out there and suggest a used Chevy Suburban. You say you will only be using it for trips so you may as well get a vehicle that is comfortable and can carry everything without having to install a rooftop carrier and a basket hanging off the rear.
I agree. I think for decades the Suburban has probably been the best all-purpose family hauler you can buy. Everyone suggests a minivan but the Suburban is much more capable at about everything. Not to mention you can tow a boat/trailer/camper/etc. I really couldn't think of a better family vehicle than this. If we ever expand ours enough, an Escalade ESV is definitely on my short list for the DW. :beer
If you've got $55k+ (Suburban) or $80k+ (Escalade) laying around. I'll take the minivan.
If you want to spend 80k on a road trip vehicle a medium roof transit conversion is much more comfortable than an Escalade.

Something like this:
http://www.explorerconversionvanspa.com ... pe=Contact
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

teCh0010 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:18 am
stoptothink wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:09 pm
Workaholic wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:38 pm
p14175 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:31 pm I'm going to go out there and suggest a used Chevy Suburban. You say you will only be using it for trips so you may as well get a vehicle that is comfortable and can carry everything without having to install a rooftop carrier and a basket hanging off the rear.
I agree. I think for decades the Suburban has probably been the best all-purpose family hauler you can buy. Everyone suggests a minivan but the Suburban is much more capable at about everything. Not to mention you can tow a boat/trailer/camper/etc. I really couldn't think of a better family vehicle than this. If we ever expand ours enough, an Escalade ESV is definitely on my short list for the DW. :beer
If you've got $55k+ (Suburban) or $80k+ (Escalade) laying around. I'll take the minivan.
If you want to spend 80k on a road trip vehicle a medium roof transit conversion is much more comfortable than an Escalade.

Something like this:
http://www.explorerconversionvanspa.com ... pe=Contact
It's definitely nice but I don't think my DW would want to drive it. Like they say...happy wife, happy life. :beer
lisarothchildco
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:01 pm

Re: Family car

Post by lisarothchildco »

If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
Blue456
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Family car

Post by Blue456 »

lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
Well I don’t know. My wife said she requires 4 kids...
stoptothink
Posts: 9160
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Family car

Post by stoptothink »

lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
We're the prototypical outdoorsy family whose vacations almost exclusively include dozens of miles of hiking and a tent. We currently do it, with our two kids, out of a VW jetta and did it out of a 3-door hyundai accent hatch before that. But, she recently saw pictures of the upcoming VW ID.buzz (the reinvented microbus) and hinted that maybe it would be nice after sharing a single compact care for almost our entire marriage...I doubt she'd be able to stomach spending $45k+ on a car if it actually came down to it (and we could easily afford the escalade)
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
I think looking for a new wife would be MUCH more expensive than buying mine a Cadillac every few years so therefore financially it's better to keep happy the wife I have :sharebeer . Not to mention I love her and she's the mother of my children...
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

stoptothink wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:40 pm
lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
We're the prototypical outdoorsy family whose vacations almost exclusively include dozens of miles of hiking and a tent. We currently do it, with our two kids, out of a VW jetta and did it out of a 3-door hyundai accent hatch before that. But, she recently saw pictures of the upcoming VW ID.buzz (the reinvented microbus) and hinted that maybe it would be nice after sharing a single compact care for almost our entire marriage...I doubt she'd be able to stomach spending $45k+ on a car if it actually came down to it (and we could easily afford the escalade)
To each their own...

Some Bogleheads seem to wear their badge of frugality with pride but to me, it's fairly silly to shun purchases that could improve your lifestyle and are, in the long term, inconsequential to a goal of financial independence/retirement. I'm not saying everyone should be buying a new luxury car every other year but spending $45,000 on something that you will utilize and enjoy seems to be a small price to pay in my eyes.

I would rather have a healthy balance between saving and spending than leaning too far to either extreme.
iamlucky13
Posts: 2353
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Family car

Post by iamlucky13 »

Workaholic wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:40 pm
lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
We're the prototypical outdoorsy family whose vacations almost exclusively include dozens of miles of hiking and a tent. We currently do it, with our two kids, out of a VW jetta and did it out of a 3-door hyundai accent hatch before that. But, she recently saw pictures of the upcoming VW ID.buzz (the reinvented microbus) and hinted that maybe it would be nice after sharing a single compact care for almost our entire marriage...I doubt she'd be able to stomach spending $45k+ on a car if it actually came down to it (and we could easily afford the escalade)
To each their own...

Some Bogleheads seem to wear their badge of frugality with pride but to me, it's fairly silly to shun purchases that could improve your lifestyle and are, in the long term, inconsequential to a goal of financial independence/retirement. I'm not saying everyone should be buying a new luxury car every other year but spending $45,000 on something that you will utilize and enjoy seems to be a small price to pay in my eyes.

I would rather have a healthy balance between saving and spending than leaning too far to either extreme.
The balance varies wildly among Bogleheads. We not only have very different income ranges, but also very different life stages. It is really hard to know what a healthy balance through the early to middle part of the accumulation phase.

The specific vehicles mentioned represent probably a couple thousand dollars per year in average annual TCO, which is a lot of money for some of us. It does mean compromising in other spending habits or in saving, even if compared fixed costs, it qualifies as easily affordable.

The most annoying part from my perspective is the fact that history indicates I am probably oversaving by a decent amount, but also that there is a non-trivial chance that I am undersaving.

That said, my wife talked me upwards by about $5k from our original target when we replaced her car. Sometimes "common" sense does prevail. In this case I mean "common" to indicate what any normal person would do in my situation, not necessarily what is most logical.
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:00 pm
Workaholic wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:40 pm
lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
We're the prototypical outdoorsy family whose vacations almost exclusively include dozens of miles of hiking and a tent. We currently do it, with our two kids, out of a VW jetta and did it out of a 3-door hyundai accent hatch before that. But, she recently saw pictures of the upcoming VW ID.buzz (the reinvented microbus) and hinted that maybe it would be nice after sharing a single compact care for almost our entire marriage...I doubt she'd be able to stomach spending $45k+ on a car if it actually came down to it (and we could easily afford the escalade)
To each their own...

Some Bogleheads seem to wear their badge of frugality with pride but to me, it's fairly silly to shun purchases that could improve your lifestyle and are, in the long term, inconsequential to a goal of financial independence/retirement. I'm not saying everyone should be buying a new luxury car every other year but spending $45,000 on something that you will utilize and enjoy seems to be a small price to pay in my eyes.

I would rather have a healthy balance between saving and spending than leaning too far to either extreme.
The balance varies wildly among Bogleheads. We not only have very different income ranges, but also very different life stages. It is really hard to know what a healthy balance through the early to middle part of the accumulation phase.

The specific vehicles mentioned represent probably a couple thousand dollars per year in average annual TCO, which is a lot of money for some of us. It does mean compromising in other spending habits or in saving, even if compared fixed costs, it qualifies as easily affordable.

The most annoying part from my perspective is the fact that history indicates I am probably oversaving by a decent amount, but also that there is a non-trivial chance that I am undersaving.

That said, my wife talked me upwards by about $5k from our original target when we replaced her car. Sometimes "common" sense does prevail. In this case I mean "common" to indicate what any normal person would do in my situation, not necessarily what is most logical.
I understand what you're saying and I think many Bogleheads are, by nature, oversavers. I'm probably an outlier. I feel life is a marathon, not a sprint. I want to spread my enjoyment and money out over my lifespan instead of having an enormous nest egg to spend down when I'm 60+ years old. Is there some inherent risk in not having enough? Sure but I would think that risk is fairly small over the larger chance of having more than enough. This balance works for me, obviously YMMV.
stoptothink
Posts: 9160
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Family car

Post by stoptothink »

Workaholic wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:40 pm
lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
We're the prototypical outdoorsy family whose vacations almost exclusively include dozens of miles of hiking and a tent. We currently do it, with our two kids, out of a VW jetta and did it out of a 3-door hyundai accent hatch before that. But, she recently saw pictures of the upcoming VW ID.buzz (the reinvented microbus) and hinted that maybe it would be nice after sharing a single compact care for almost our entire marriage...I doubt she'd be able to stomach spending $45k+ on a car if it actually came down to it (and we could easily afford the escalade)
To each their own...

Some Bogleheads seem to wear their badge of frugality with pride but to me, it's fairly silly to shun purchases that could improve your lifestyle and are, in the long term, inconsequential to a goal of financial independence/retirement. I'm not saying everyone should be buying a new luxury car every other year but spending $45,000 on something that you will utilize and enjoy seems to be a small price to pay in my eyes.

I would rather have a healthy balance between saving and spending than leaning too far to either extreme.
We can just think of about a zillion things that would improve our quality of life more for $40k+ than the difference between (say) a VW. ID. buzz and an escalade as a family hauler. I'm a total "car guy" but I can't wrap my head around the opportunity cost; that is a ton of awesome family vacations.

I also recall you posting in another thread that you would consider Net Jets at $5M net worth; you value how you travel far more than I do. Just different strokes.
hi_there
Posts: 671
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Family car

Post by hi_there »

angelescrest wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:05 am
stanthecaddy wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:22 am Lots of great responses. Thanks everyone. I’ll admit I didn’t consider minivans merely for the “cool” factor. I suppose I can’t really hide the soccer dad I am.

It does seem to me that the technologies are rapidly changing and there’s some inherent unpredictability to it. I usually buy a car and run it to the ground 15 years later. But now might be a good time to lease.
Father of two here. Used to drive a sports car. Cant tell you how much I love the Minivan, it’s been the best thing I’ve ever purchased for the family. The sliding doors take the cake. The thing most people don’t emphasize is the visibility for the kids. Sedans and SUVs don’t allow the kids to see much, but a minivan? They can see the world through their massive and low side windows. Super easy to get in and out of. Happy kids, less stressed dad. Hauling champion.

Sienna hybrid would be my choice.
I read some article about how minivans are a lot like super cars, since the platform needs so much specialization to accommodate the packaging goals. For super cars, it's to reduce weight and make things more compact. For minivans, it's the same, but for fuel economy and to make more interior room. That's something to appreciate also.
Living Free
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: Family car

Post by Living Free »

DoubleComma wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:15 am
stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm I’m looking to buy a family car to transport 5 people including two kids in car seats. My top contenders are Kia Telluride/ Hyundai Palisade. It’s killing me that I’m not only buying a gas guzzler, but about to drop $45k on it. I really thought my next car would be an electric car, but there aren’t any with a third row seat that I need + seems to me that the infrastructure is at least 3-5 years away.

Thoughts on what should I do? I need the car right away.

P.S: we plan to use it on road trips other than daily use. Not gonna use it for commuting.
Not every buying choice you make has to be the most BH friendly and still consider yourself a BH.

Buy the vehicle that makes you happy. If you don’t want a minivan don’t get one. We are a family of 5 and have suburban, previous was a Highlander, and I wound declare the suburban better for us in every way.

My wife drives it as her kid hauler daily abs we use it for family travel regularly. In fact we just made a 10 hour each way road trip in it this week.

Gas mileage is a rounding error in annual budget between most large SUV and Minivan. For example our Suburban blended fuel economy is 17, where most minivans I see reported at 26, so for 15,000 annual miles that’s less than 300 gallons of fuel. At $4/gal that’s less than $1200 a year.

I’m not letting $1,200 prevent me from buying what I want. Same with purchase price less residual value when I’m done with a vehicle. I’m not going to let net worth rounding errors impact vehicle of choice.
I added the bold. That would come to $12k over a 10 year period. Over a 60 year driving lifetime, you're looking at $72k. It adds up.
lazydavid
Posts: 3658
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Family car

Post by lazydavid »

kgw wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:34 pm Another option I would consider is a used Lexus RX 450L (hybrid) with second row captains chairs.
This is a horrible option. The RXL only exists so Lexus can advertise a "3-row SUV" without actually having to build one. They just added 4 inches to the existing RX and crammed a pair of tiny seat in there, with literally zero legroom (3rd row seat touches the back of the 2nd row when both are in their normal position).

The only way you can put (very small) people in the third row of the RXL is by significantly cutting into the legroom of the second AND first rows. This is a big problem, since the RX already has less legroom in the first and second rows than all of its competitors.

Add me to the minivan crowd on this one.
Workaholic
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Family car

Post by Workaholic »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:16 pm
Workaholic wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:40 pm
lisarothchildco wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:28 pm If you're wife requires a Escalade ESV I think I would be looking for a new wife.
We're the prototypical outdoorsy family whose vacations almost exclusively include dozens of miles of hiking and a tent. We currently do it, with our two kids, out of a VW jetta and did it out of a 3-door hyundai accent hatch before that. But, she recently saw pictures of the upcoming VW ID.buzz (the reinvented microbus) and hinted that maybe it would be nice after sharing a single compact care for almost our entire marriage...I doubt she'd be able to stomach spending $45k+ on a car if it actually came down to it (and we could easily afford the escalade)
To each their own...

Some Bogleheads seem to wear their badge of frugality with pride but to me, it's fairly silly to shun purchases that could improve your lifestyle and are, in the long term, inconsequential to a goal of financial independence/retirement. I'm not saying everyone should be buying a new luxury car every other year but spending $45,000 on something that you will utilize and enjoy seems to be a small price to pay in my eyes.

I would rather have a healthy balance between saving and spending than leaning too far to either extreme.
We can just think of about a zillion things that would improve our quality of life more for $40k+ than the difference between (say) a VW. ID. buzz and an escalade as a family hauler. I'm a total "car guy" but I can't wrap my head around the opportunity cost; that is a ton of awesome family vacations.

I also recall you posting in another thread that you would consider Net Jets at $5M net worth; you value how you travel far more than I do. Just different strokes.
Oh I agree, different strokes for different folks. It all comes down to what you enjoy spending your disposable income on. I drive an F-150 and I wouldn't trade it for a Mercedes or any luxury car. My wife enjoys having something flashier and that's fine by me. We tend to splurge on travel but we own a modest home that suits us just fine. I have no desire to have the fanciest home on the block because it's not something we value.

We max out all retirement accounts as well as contribute to a taxable account. As long as we aren't living higher than our budget allows, it doesn't matter.
tdmp
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:12 am

Re: Family car

Post by tdmp »

mattsm wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:31 pm Got a loaded #1 ( Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Limited ) for $33k OTD after the federal tax rebate. So far only gone a few miles on gas. Like it so far.
Oh wow that's cheap. very boglehead-ish!!
iamlucky13
Posts: 2353
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Family car

Post by iamlucky13 »

hi_there wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:20 pm
angelescrest wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:05 am Father of two here. Used to drive a sports car. Cant tell you how much I love the Minivan, it’s been the best thing I’ve ever purchased for the family. The sliding doors take the cake. The thing most people don’t emphasize is the visibility for the kids. Sedans and SUVs don’t allow the kids to see much, but a minivan? They can see the world through their massive and low side windows. Super easy to get in and out of. Happy kids, less stressed dad. Hauling champion.

Sienna hybrid would be my choice.
I read some article about how minivans are a lot like super cars, since the platform needs so much specialization to accommodate the packaging goals. For super cars, it's to reduce weight and make things more compact. For minivans, it's the same, but for fuel economy and to make more interior room. That's something to appreciate also.
More engineering goes into a conventional car than a supercar.

Consider the Bugatti Veyron: they built 450 of them and sold them for somewhere around $2 million each. The entire program cost less than $1 billion including manufacturing, and there was almost no commonality to leverage with other models or prior generations.

GM has a capital budget of $8 billion per year, which as I understand means mostly R&D. That covers a long list of models, but many of them have a high degree of commonality via shared platforms, so their R&D amounts to maybe 3-4 platforms per year. Platform development is mostly evolutionary - a platform sees only small changes over a space of 4-10 years depending on the market segment, then gets a new generation released.

So designing a new body and interior for a couple related models is often getting over $1 billion worth of engineering effort. A complete overhaul of a platform with a a new body and interior plus a new or significantly updated engine, transmission, and suspension can be in the ballpark of $5 billion.

The priorities for those development dollars are quite different, however, so it's not particularly useful to compare them head-to-head, but there is a certain perspective from which a $20,000 commuter sedan is a more incredible engineering achievement than a $2 million super car.
angelescrest
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: MCOL, no state income tax

Re: Family car

Post by angelescrest »

hi_there wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:20 pm
angelescrest wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:05 am
stanthecaddy wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:22 am Lots of great responses. Thanks everyone. I’ll admit I didn’t consider minivans merely for the “cool” factor. I suppose I can’t really hide the soccer dad I am.

It does seem to me that the technologies are rapidly changing and there’s some inherent unpredictability to it. I usually buy a car and run it to the ground 15 years later. But now might be a good time to lease.
Father of two here. Used to drive a sports car. Cant tell you how much I love the Minivan, it’s been the best thing I’ve ever purchased for the family. The sliding doors take the cake. The thing most people don’t emphasize is the visibility for the kids. Sedans and SUVs don’t allow the kids to see much, but a minivan? They can see the world through their massive and low side windows. Super easy to get in and out of. Happy kids, less stressed dad. Hauling champion.

Sienna hybrid would be my choice.
I read some article about how minivans are a lot like super cars, since the platform needs so much specialization to accommodate the packaging goals. For super cars, it's to reduce weight and make things more compact. For minivans, it's the same, but for fuel economy and to make more interior room. That's something to appreciate also.
Oh one more thing: a ridiculously awesome turning radius. Who would’ve thought? Compare that to a truck.
DoubleComma
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: Family car

Post by DoubleComma »

Living Free wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:34 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:15 am
stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm I’m looking to buy a family car to transport 5 people including two kids in car seats. My top contenders are Kia Telluride/ Hyundai Palisade. It’s killing me that I’m not only buying a gas guzzler, but about to drop $45k on it. I really thought my next car would be an electric car, but there aren’t any with a third row seat that I need + seems to me that the infrastructure is at least 3-5 years away.

Thoughts on what should I do? I need the car right away.

P.S: we plan to use it on road trips other than daily use. Not gonna use it for commuting.
Not every buying choice you make has to be the most BH friendly and still consider yourself a BH.

Buy the vehicle that makes you happy. If you don’t want a minivan don’t get one. We are a family of 5 and have suburban, previous was a Highlander, and I wound declare the suburban better for us in every way.

My wife drives it as her kid hauler daily abs we use it for family travel regularly. In fact we just made a 10 hour each way road trip in it this week.

Gas mileage is a rounding error in annual budget between most large SUV and Minivan. For example our Suburban blended fuel economy is 17, where most minivans I see reported at 26, so for 15,000 annual miles that’s less than 300 gallons of fuel. At $4/gal that’s less than $1200 a year.

I’m not letting $1,200 prevent me from buying what I want. Same with purchase price less residual value when I’m done with a vehicle. I’m not going to let net worth rounding errors impact vehicle of choice.
I added the bold. That would come to $12k over a 10 year period. Over a 60 year driving lifetime, you're looking at $72k. It adds up.
Thank you for reinforcing my position...$72k over 60 years is nothing. Most families will spend more than that on pizza.
Jeepergeo
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Re: Family car

Post by Jeepergeo »

stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm I’m looking to buy a family car to transport 5 people including two kids in car seats. My top contenders are Kia Telluride/ Hyundai Palisade. It’s killing me that I’m not only buying a gas guzzler, but about to drop $45k on it. I really thought my next car would be an electric car, but there aren’t any with a third row seat that I need + seems to me that the infrastructure is at least 3-5 years away.

Thoughts on what should I do? I need the car right away.

P.S: we plan to use it on road trips other than daily use. Not gonna use it for commuting.
How about a Toyota Highlander? Plenty of seating and they really hold their value and get great reviews by Consumer Reports. A Subaru Outback would be another to consider but may be tight with the two car seats.
phxjcc
Posts: 825
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Re: Family car

Post by phxjcc »

stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm I’m looking to buy a family car to transport 5 people including two kids in car seats. My top contenders are Kia Telluride/ Hyundai Palisade. It’s killing me that I’m not only buying a gas guzzler, but about to drop $45k on it. I really thought my next car would be an electric car, but there aren’t any with a third row seat that I need + seems to me that the infrastructure is at least 3-5 years away.

Thoughts on what should I do? I need the car right away.

P.S: we plan to use it on road trips other than daily use. Not gonna use it for commuting.
No comment on the decision to buy.

However, I recommend going to /askcarsales on Reddit.

Supply on everything is severely constrained.
MARP on either of these is a good deal right now - and with the chip supply chain shortage, it could be months.

Honestly, a minivan through Craigslist might be the way to go.
Blue456
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Re: Family car

Post by Blue456 »

stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm I’m looking to buy a family car to transport 5 people including two kids in car seats. My top contenders are Kia Telluride/ Hyundai Palisade. It’s killing me that I’m not only buying a gas guzzler, but about to drop $45k on it. I really thought my next car would be an electric car, but there aren’t any with a third row seat that I need + seems to me that the infrastructure is at least 3-5 years away.

Thoughts on what should I do? I need the car right away.

P.S: we plan to use it on road trips other than daily use. Not gonna use it for commuting.
Chrysler Pacifica is fully electric for first 36 miles. Which means it can be your electric commute car and gasoline for long trips. Not a bad compromise. Like you I am in looking for 3-5 person minivan.
New Providence
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Re: Family car

Post by New Providence »

Acura MDX
hi_there
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Re: Family car

Post by hi_there »

It's interesting how that Kia Telluride with 20/27 mpg is a relatively inefficient car nowadays. From the internet, this is about the same fuel efficiency as a much smaller and lighter typical 1990s sedan like Honda Accord. I recall that Dodge Durango from a while ago used to get 9/10 mpg.

Anyway, if it was my money to buy a new three row vehicle, I'd say the Kia would be the top of my list, based on seemingly unanimous praise from everyone. 2021 Toyota Sienna is also looking pretty good. $35k starting price and 36 mpg, along with all the standard technology is a great value.
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queso
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Re: Family car

Post by queso »

hi_there wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:19 pm It's interesting how that Kia Telluride with 20/27 mpg is a relatively inefficient car nowadays. From the internet, this is about the same fuel efficiency as a much smaller and lighter typical 1990s sedan like Honda Accord. I recall that Dodge Durango from a while ago used to get 9/10 mpg.

Anyway, if it was my money to buy a new three row vehicle, I'd say the Kia would be the top of my list, based on seemingly unanimous praise from everyone. 2021 Toyota Sienna is also looking pretty good. $35k starting price and 36 mpg, along with all the standard technology is a great value.
Unless things have changed since last summer, the Telluride will run you 20k more than the Sienna once you try to buy one. I think the last quote I got on one was about $55k and that didn't include taxes, etc. It got dropped from my list based on that experience and a few others. I get that the Telluride is popular and demand is high, but the way Kia dealers throw on appearance packages, Simonizing (lol..), etc. to try to inflate the price was really off-putting to me. One guy offered to put me on his "$5995 over MSRP wait list". No thanks. If I am paying luxury prices I'd like to get treated like I am buying a luxury car.
Living Free
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: Family car

Post by Living Free »

DoubleComma wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:18 pm
Living Free wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:34 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:15 am
stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm I’m looking to buy a family car to transport 5 people including two kids in car seats. My top contenders are Kia Telluride/ Hyundai Palisade. It’s killing me that I’m not only buying a gas guzzler, but about to drop $45k on it. I really thought my next car would be an electric car, but there aren’t any with a third row seat that I need + seems to me that the infrastructure is at least 3-5 years away.

Thoughts on what should I do? I need the car right away.

P.S: we plan to use it on road trips other than daily use. Not gonna use it for commuting.
Not every buying choice you make has to be the most BH friendly and still consider yourself a BH.

Buy the vehicle that makes you happy. If you don’t want a minivan don’t get one. We are a family of 5 and have suburban, previous was a Highlander, and I wound declare the suburban better for us in every way.

My wife drives it as her kid hauler daily abs we use it for family travel regularly. In fact we just made a 10 hour each way road trip in it this week.

Gas mileage is a rounding error in annual budget between most large SUV and Minivan. For example our Suburban blended fuel economy is 17, where most minivans I see reported at 26, so for 15,000 annual miles that’s less than 300 gallons of fuel. At $4/gal that’s less than $1200 a year.

I’m not letting $1,200 prevent me from buying what I want. Same with purchase price less residual value when I’m done with a vehicle. I’m not going to let net worth rounding errors impact vehicle of choice.
I added the bold. That would come to $12k over a 10 year period. Over a 60 year driving lifetime, you're looking at $72k. It adds up.
Thank you for reinforcing my position...$72k over 60 years is nothing. Most families will spend more than that on pizza.
$72k is a substantial amount of money. It's okay if some folks find it worth that much to drive particular cars, but it's still a substantial amount of money. (I also value pizza more than I value specific cars :happy )
DH0
Posts: 68
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Re: Family car

Post by DH0 »

stanthecaddy wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:28 pm Thanks everyone so much! After looking at everyone’s recommendations, turns out that a minivan was what I needed. The Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid is my top contender now. I see the Limited trim in my area for around $45k. Going to test drive soon
Excellent choice. "Coolest" car we have ever owned, and the list includes a bunch of luxury SUVs, BMWs and sports cars. The kids are in love with it, tons of space, rear DVDs, power everything, feels like you're driving a rocket ship. And with all of the subsidies/tax credits it will be 20–30% cheaper than anything else on your list.

A heads up on negotiating – you should be able to get at least 7 to 10k off MSRP before the tax credits/rebates. We managed 12k off a 2020 at the end of last year plus another 10k off in credits. It worked out to 27k + TTL for a brand new limited w/ 48k MSRP.
Last edited by DH0 on Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
A440
Posts: 676
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Location: NJ

Re: Family car

Post by A440 »

Watty wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:14 pm
stanthecaddy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:23 pm Thoughts on what should I do?
When buying a car safety is one of my highest priorities.

Here is a list of the top safety picks with lots of choices to choose from.

I would need a really good reason to buy a new car that is not on that list.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks
+1 Purchase the safest car you can afford that meets your current and future anticipated needs (and maybe a want or two). Also, does it have to be new? If you can find something 2 or 3 years old, in most cases someone else has already taken most of the depreciation "hit".
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Family car

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

dukeblue219 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:33 pm BHers allegedly haul more 4x8 plywood and drywall than any other car buyers I've ever met :D
I easily brought home half a dozen 16 foot 2x4's with my Crosstrek. I put my kayak rack on the factory crossbars and used a couple ratchet straps to tie the wood down. Worked great.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Texanbybirth
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Re: Family car

Post by Texanbybirth »

dukeblue219 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:33 pm BHers allegedly haul more 4x8 plywood and drywall than any other car buyers I've ever met :D
That's hilarious. And I'm a huge fan of minivans for their utility. :beer
“The strong cannot be brave. Only the weak can be brave; and yet again, in practice, only those who can be brave can be trusted, in time of doubt, to be strong.“ - GK Chesterton
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