For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

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Wanderingwheelz
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

:!: ion
JDCarpenter wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:13 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:54 am
JDCarpenter wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:47 am ....

FWIW, we spend about twice as much in retirement than when we were working (excluding taxes, which were our biggest expense when working). Our nontravel expenses are just slightly more than the cutoff; travel will easily double [ambiguity here--I should have said "easily equal," or "more than match"] that in most years. Although we slept in our own bed for 7 1/2 months in 2020, we strive for 6 months or less.

...
Does a bed in a second home or an RV still count as your bed?
Dunno? We don't have either of those, although we did rent an RV for 2 or 3 weeks in Alaska last summer. Sure didn't consider that to be our own bed.
The only reason I asked is because I live in a resort community and most of my neighbors are second home owners who consider the bulk of their travel to be their time spent here (in a home they own but likely are carrying a mortgage on). Since my wife and I already live where other people want to be when they’re not home we decided to buy an RV so we could have a second home too.
3 Fund Portfolio. 70%/30% AA. No mortgage. Simple.
Lexx
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Lexx »

We actually were able to squeeze my AGI slightly under the limit for the supplement so we get a little bit. The problem is we're in that zone where when you make more, you get less supplement. So the whole thing is a wash so to speak. But it's also a disincentive to actually earn more. It's a crazy system! I'm anticipating that within the next 5 years my AGI will completely surpass the upper limit for the supplement. It's a good "problem" to have I guess but it goes to show that there are issues with the system as it is.
iamblessed wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:11 am
Lexx wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:36 am I'm in a rather unique situation because I retired at 56. I'm 59 right now with triplet 9 year old kids! Our biggest expense is healthcare premiums. Our total premium is $42k/yr for the family on a platinum Obamacare plan. That's a huge part of expenses - more than the total I'm paying for our small remaining mortgage, insurance and property taxes. We also live in a HCOL area so that doesn't help. Right now we spend just about all that we take in. But at least we're not touching our savings or retirement funds. I plan on drawing social security at 62, and with 3 kids, I should get a good chunk of change. At 65 I'll qualify for Medicare which will be another savings. I'm comfortable, probably considered HNW, but I'm nervous. It's impossible to predict the future. Lots of changes in tax laws are coming our way which will massively affect my inheritance and how I have to position our estate for our kids.
Wow I did not know it could be that high on the ACA. So you are still under the ACA cliff?
Lexx
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Lexx »

Well being a health care provider in VHCOL California with onerous regulations and a dwindling supply of employees, makes it VERY difficult to run a business here. The fees from insurance companies have not been materially raised in well over a decade while our overhead has gone up massively. My dad retired at 52. One week after his 70th birthday, I drove him to the hospital to have what was supposed to be routine surgery. That turned into a disaster resulting in him being wheelchair bound and developing dementia. He lived another 11 years but had no quality of life. So I looked at the whole situation. We have no guarantees of a healthy future. I've had friends drop dead or get cancer and die. With 3 young kids, I decided it was more important for me to be involved in their lives instead of being at the office. So I sold the practice and walked away. I do not regret it at all. I got out at the perfect time. I'd hate to have to run a practice now with this covid crisis hanging over everything.

The lessons are, be a saver, invest well, know when to walk away, and learn to smell the roses before it's too late.
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am
Lexx wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:36 am I'm in a rather unique situation because I retired at 56. I'm 59 right now with triplet 9 year old kids! Our biggest expense is healthcare premiums. Our total premium is $42k/yr for the family on a platinum Obamacare plan. That's a huge part of expenses - more than the total I'm paying for our small remaining mortgage, insurance and property taxes. We also live in a HCOL area so that doesn't help. Right now we spend just about all that we take in. But at least we're not touching our savings or retirement funds. I plan on drawing social security at 62, and with 3 kids, I should get a good chunk of change. At 65 I'll qualify for Medicare which will be another savings. I'm comfortable, probably considered HNW, but I'm nervous. It's impossible to predict the future. Lots of changes in tax laws are coming our way which will massively affect my inheritance and how I have to position our estate for our kids.
What caused you to retire?
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goodenyou
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by goodenyou »

Lexx wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:12 pm Well being a health care provider in VHCOL California with onerous regulations and a dwindling supply of employees, makes it VERY difficult to run a business here. The fees from insurance companies have not been materially raised in well over a decade while our overhead has gone up massively. My dad retired at 52. One week after his 70th birthday, I drove him to the hospital to have what was supposed to be routine surgery. That turned into a disaster resulting in him being wheelchair bound and developing dementia. He lived another 11 years but had no quality of life. So I looked at the whole situation. We have no guarantees of a healthy future. I've had friends drop dead or get cancer and die. With 3 young kids, I decided it was more important for me to be involved in their lives instead of being at the office. So I sold the practice and walked away. I do not regret it at all. I got out at the perfect time. I'd hate to have to run a practice now with this covid crisis hanging over everything.

The lessons are, be a saver, invest well, know when to walk away, and learn to smell the roses before it's too late.
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am
Lexx wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:36 am I'm in a rather unique situation because I retired at 56. I'm 59 right now with triplet 9 year old kids! Our biggest expense is healthcare premiums. Our total premium is $42k/yr for the family on a platinum Obamacare plan. That's a huge part of expenses - more than the total I'm paying for our small remaining mortgage, insurance and property taxes. We also live in a HCOL area so that doesn't help. Right now we spend just about all that we take in. But at least we're not touching our savings or retirement funds. I plan on drawing social security at 62, and with 3 kids, I should get a good chunk of change. At 65 I'll qualify for Medicare which will be another savings. I'm comfortable, probably considered HNW, but I'm nervous. It's impossible to predict the future. Lots of changes in tax laws are coming our way which will massively affect my inheritance and how I have to position our estate for our kids.
What caused you to retire?
How old are/were you when you retired from the practice of medicine?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
Lexx
Posts: 352
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Lexx »

Dentistry - retired at age 56
goodenyou wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:56 am
Lexx wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:12 pm Well being a health care provider in VHCOL California with onerous regulations and a dwindling supply of employees, makes it VERY difficult to run a business here. The fees from insurance companies have not been materially raised in well over a decade while our overhead has gone up massively. My dad retired at 52. One week after his 70th birthday, I drove him to the hospital to have what was supposed to be routine surgery. That turned into a disaster resulting in him being wheelchair bound and developing dementia. He lived another 11 years but had no quality of life. So I looked at the whole situation. We have no guarantees of a healthy future. I've had friends drop dead or get cancer and die. With 3 young kids, I decided it was more important for me to be involved in their lives instead of being at the office. So I sold the practice and walked away. I do not regret it at all. I got out at the perfect time. I'd hate to have to run a practice now with this covid crisis hanging over everything.

The lessons are, be a saver, invest well, know when to walk away, and learn to smell the roses before it's too late.
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am
Lexx wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:36 am I'm in a rather unique situation because I retired at 56. I'm 59 right now with triplet 9 year old kids! Our biggest expense is healthcare premiums. Our total premium is $42k/yr for the family on a platinum Obamacare plan. That's a huge part of expenses - more than the total I'm paying for our small remaining mortgage, insurance and property taxes. We also live in a HCOL area so that doesn't help. Right now we spend just about all that we take in. But at least we're not touching our savings or retirement funds. I plan on drawing social security at 62, and with 3 kids, I should get a good chunk of change. At 65 I'll qualify for Medicare which will be another savings. I'm comfortable, probably considered HNW, but I'm nervous. It's impossible to predict the future. Lots of changes in tax laws are coming our way which will massively affect my inheritance and how I have to position our estate for our kids.
What caused you to retire?
How old are/were you when you retired from the practice of medicine?
retire57
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by retire57 »

Retired couple in our 60s + no debt = 55K. Includes taxes and medical insurance.
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goodenyou
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by goodenyou »

Lexx wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:12 pm Dentistry - retired at age 56
goodenyou wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:56 am
Lexx wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:12 pm Well being a health care provider in VHCOL California with onerous regulations and a dwindling supply of employees, makes it VERY difficult to run a business here. The fees from insurance companies have not been materially raised in well over a decade while our overhead has gone up massively. My dad retired at 52. One week after his 70th birthday, I drove him to the hospital to have what was supposed to be routine surgery. That turned into a disaster resulting in him being wheelchair bound and developing dementia. He lived another 11 years but had no quality of life. So I looked at the whole situation. We have no guarantees of a healthy future. I've had friends drop dead or get cancer and die. With 3 young kids, I decided it was more important for me to be involved in their lives instead of being at the office. So I sold the practice and walked away. I do not regret it at all. I got out at the perfect time. I'd hate to have to run a practice now with this covid crisis hanging over everything.

The lessons are, be a saver, invest well, know when to walk away, and learn to smell the roses before it's too late.
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am
Lexx wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:36 am I'm in a rather unique situation because I retired at 56. I'm 59 right now with triplet 9 year old kids! Our biggest expense is healthcare premiums. Our total premium is $42k/yr for the family on a platinum Obamacare plan. That's a huge part of expenses - more than the total I'm paying for our small remaining mortgage, insurance and property taxes. We also live in a HCOL area so that doesn't help. Right now we spend just about all that we take in. But at least we're not touching our savings or retirement funds. I plan on drawing social security at 62, and with 3 kids, I should get a good chunk of change. At 65 I'll qualify for Medicare which will be another savings. I'm comfortable, probably considered HNW, but I'm nervous. It's impossible to predict the future. Lots of changes in tax laws are coming our way which will massively affect my inheritance and how I have to position our estate for our kids.
What caused you to retire?
How old are/were you when you retired from the practice of medicine?
Congratulations on your decision to do what would make you happy. Too many plug their noses and muscle thorough their misery in practice. You were wise to save and be prepared. Many of our colleagues are a product of their own bad planning and decision making.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
kilkoyne
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by kilkoyne »

This is a great topic.

I'm single and an ultra-saver. My calculations for 2020 would have me at $42K spending. I included budgeting for $7K house maintenance and $3K vacation and $2K healthcare. I still have a mortgage and live in a HCOL area. I believe my expenses may go up when I retire with more vacationing but not drastically.

I'm estimating on the high side $50k-$60K/year spending after taxes (in today's dollars) with a mortgage but the mortgage could be gone if I wanted that. I'm so used to saving and living on frugally that I doubt more money would make me any happier.
SpaceCowboy
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by SpaceCowboy »

When I read these threads, I just don’t understand how people live on such tight budgets. Granted I live in a HCOL area, SoCal, in a nice suburb, but if I just look at insurance costs (health, house, car, earthquake, umbrella) and property taxes, that adds up to over $40k annually. That’s without food. The biggest discretionary pieces of our budget are travel and restaurants. Taxes are the hardest items to predict, as I do get self-employment income some years. I also don’t include education expenses, which are separately funded from 529s. Our spending tends to be $180-200k annually since retiring 7 years ago. This past Covid year was cheaper, as we stopped eating out largely and only had one significant road trip vacation plus one international trip early in the year.
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bampf
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by bampf »

@SpaceCowboy It does matter where you live. I have a very nice house that runs about $6K a year in property tax. High end insurance runs about $5K (Car, umbrella and house but not including healthcare). Healthcare would be about $24K unless I qualified for ACA in which case it would be a lot less. But, if I spent $30K a year on food, utilities, gas, and discretionary that would work out to about $2500 a month. $85 a day or so. That's pretty reasonable if you are frugal and don't go out a lot. So, while it wouldn't be super fat, I could probably live on $40k to $50K a year based on where I live and anticipated expenses.
SpaceCowboy
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by SpaceCowboy »

bampf wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:24 am @SpaceCowboy It does matter where you live. I have a very nice house that runs about $6K a year in property tax. High end insurance runs about $5K (Car, umbrella and house but not including healthcare). Healthcare would be about $24K unless I qualified for ACA in which case it would be a lot less. But, if I spent $30K a year on food, utilities, gas, and discretionary that would work out to about $2500 a month. $85 a day or so. That's pretty reasonable if you are frugal and don't go out a lot. So, while it wouldn't be super fat, I could probably live on $40k to $50K a year based on where I live and anticipated expenses.
That looks like $65k pre-tax to me.
I’ve never managed to get an ACA subsidy and have to pay full freight.
I’m not claiming that we try to live frugally, but we also don’t spend just for the sake of spending. Neither of us is a clotheshorse for example. In our area, there are people who live on less, and plenty who spend more. I certainly feel fortunate that we are able to afford the lifestyle we have.
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bampf
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by bampf »

SpaceCowboy wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 am
bampf wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:24 am @SpaceCowboy It does matter where you live. I have a very nice house that runs about $6K a year in property tax. High end insurance runs about $5K (Car, umbrella and house but not including healthcare). Healthcare would be about $24K unless I qualified for ACA in which case it would be a lot less. But, if I spent $30K a year on food, utilities, gas, and discretionary that would work out to about $2500 a month. $85 a day or so. That's pretty reasonable if you are frugal and don't go out a lot. So, while it wouldn't be super fat, I could probably live on $40k to $50K a year based on where I live and anticipated expenses.
That looks like $65k pre-tax to me.
I’ve never managed to get an ACA subsidy and have to pay full freight.
I’m not claiming that we try to live frugally, but we also don’t spend just for the sake of spending. Neither of us is a clotheshorse for example. In our area, there are people who live on less, and plenty who spend more. I certainly feel fortunate that we are able to afford the lifestyle we have.
LTCG is 0% up to 80K.
You get a subsidy for ACA in Colorado if married filing jointly is under $68K.
So, largely tax free up to $65K.

I wasn't suggesting you weren't being frugal. Im pretty frugal and I spend a lot more than that supporting kids, paying for university, driving a fun car etc. My point was I probably could live on $40K to $50K. I don't want to, but, I probably could and I can see how it can be done.
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Sandi_k
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Sandi_k »

SpaceCowboy wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:14 am When I read these threads, I just don’t understand how people live on such tight budgets. Granted I live in a HCOL area, SoCal, in a nice suburb, but if I just look at insurance costs (health, house, car, earthquake, umbrella) and property taxes, that adds up to over $40k annually. That’s without food. The biggest discretionary pieces of our budget are travel and restaurants. Taxes are the hardest items to predict, as I do get self-employment income some years. I also don’t include education expenses, which are separately funded from 529s. Our spending tends to be $180-200k annually since retiring 7 years ago. This past Covid year was cheaper, as we stopped eating out largely and only had one significant road trip vacation plus one international trip early in the year.
I noted we are planning $150k per year, and we're in NorCal. Once the house is paid off, that's still $12k per year in taxes and insurance. Medical premiums for retirees = $8k annually. Food: $10k annually. Car insurance - $4k annually. Taxes: $40k annually on the pension.

So we're at $75k annually, and we haven't even covered utilities, gas, or travel. :annoyed
Broken Man 1999
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

2017 - $106,694
2018 - $128,919 (remodel, $25,000, $50,000 over two years)
2019 - $122,916 (remodel, $25,000, $50,000 over two years)
2020 - $125,814 (remodel $17,000, extra taxes for TIRA to Roth conversion)

Going forward most likely $70,000 - $80,000. Most heavy spending on home is finished for a couple of years, though additional taxes due to Roth conversions could add to spending.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
InvestInPasta
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by InvestInPasta »

kilkoyne wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:46 pm This is a great topic.

I'm single and an ultra-saver. My calculations for 2020 would have me at $42K spending. I included budgeting for $7K house maintenance and $3K vacation and $2K healthcare. I still have a mortgage and live in a HCOL area. I believe my expenses may go up when I retire with more vacationing but not drastically.

I'm estimating on the high side $50k-$60K/year spending after taxes (in today's dollars) with a mortgage but the mortgage could be gone if I wanted that. I'm so used to saving and living on frugally that I doubt more money would make me any happier.
Would you mind to post more details about your expenses?
I'm asking you, but I could ask the same to others, it's just that your post was the most detailed one.
I'm curious because life in US seems to be so expensive from here. I thought it was caused by healthcare insurance, but you wrote you spend only 2K$ per year on that one.

For example:
1) What's the recurring spending per year for your house (owned, excluding morgage)? I mean bills+Home tax.
2) What's for the car? I mean insurance+tax+gas+fines+maintenance
3) Eating? I mean grocery+restaurant+delivered pizza/food
When I study English I am lazier than my portfolio. Feel free to fix my english and investing mistakes.
Admiral
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Admiral »

InvestInPasta wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:13 am
kilkoyne wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:46 pm This is a great topic.

I'm single and an ultra-saver. My calculations for 2020 would have me at $42K spending. I included budgeting for $7K house maintenance and $3K vacation and $2K healthcare. I still have a mortgage and live in a HCOL area. I believe my expenses may go up when I retire with more vacationing but not drastically.

I'm estimating on the high side $50k-$60K/year spending after taxes (in today's dollars) with a mortgage but the mortgage could be gone if I wanted that. I'm so used to saving and living on frugally that I doubt more money would make me any happier.
Would you mind to post more details about your expenses?
I'm asking you, but I could ask the same to others, it's just that your post was the most detailed one.
I'm curious because life in US seems to be so expensive from here. I thought it was caused by healthcare insurance, but you wrote you spend only 2K$ per year on that one.

For example:
1) What's the recurring spending per year for your house (owned, excluding morgage)? I mean bills+Home tax.
2) What's for the car? I mean insurance+tax+gas+fines+maintenance
3) Eating? I mean grocery+restaurant+delivered pizza/food
I can answer but are you asking about CURRENT (while working) expenses or RETIREMENT expenses? There will be a significant reduction, at least for me.

Also don’t forget high earners tend to spend much more!
Escapevelocity
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Escapevelocity »

Sandi_k wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:23 pm
SpaceCowboy wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:14 am When I read these threads, I just don’t understand how people live on such tight budgets. Granted I live in a HCOL area, SoCal, in a nice suburb, but if I just look at insurance costs (health, house, car, earthquake, umbrella) and property taxes, that adds up to over $40k annually. That’s without food. The biggest discretionary pieces of our budget are travel and restaurants. Taxes are the hardest items to predict, as I do get self-employment income some years. I also don’t include education expenses, which are separately funded from 529s. Our spending tends to be $180-200k annually since retiring 7 years ago. This past Covid year was cheaper, as we stopped eating out largely and only had one significant road trip vacation plus one international trip early in the year.
I noted we are planning $150k per year, and we're in NorCal. Once the house is paid off, that's still $12k per year in taxes and insurance. Medical premiums for retirees = $8k annually. Food: $10k annually. Car insurance - $4k annually. Taxes: $40k annually on the pension.

So we're at $75k annually, and we haven't even covered utilities, gas, or travel. :annoyed
$40K tax on a pension???? How much is the pension $200k?
scifilover
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by scifilover »

I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
Somethingwitty92912
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Somethingwitty92912 »

MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
About 9k. I enjoy things like reading an gardening, so, I guess it comes back to values.
Admiral
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Admiral »

Somethingwitty92912 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:57 am
MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
About 9k. I enjoy things like reading an gardening, so, I guess it comes back to values.
Assume you mean “what you value” and not your values. I also value reading and gardening but spend way more that $9k and none of those things are related to my personal values.
stoptothink
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by stoptothink »

bampf wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:24 am @SpaceCowboy It does matter where you live. I have a very nice house that runs about $6K a year in property tax. High end insurance runs about $5K (Car, umbrella and house but not including healthcare). Healthcare would be about $24K unless I qualified for ACA in which case it would be a lot less. But, if I spent $30K a year on food, utilities, gas, and discretionary that would work out to about $2500 a month. $85 a day or so. That's pretty reasonable if you are frugal and don't go out a lot. So, while it wouldn't be super fat, I could probably live on $40k to $50K a year based on where I live and anticipated expenses.
It definitely matters where you live. We're in Utah, my property taxes were $1700 last year and car/home insurance was <$1100. My family of 4 is looking at <$30k in expenses this year, granted we are many years from retirement (mid-late 30's) so healthcare isn't a huge expense (our premiums are currently $120/yr) and our home is paid off. Income taxes are currently more than all of our living expenses combined, we're saving ~60% of gross income and probably <5yrs from FI (but likely won't retire for 15yrs or so).
Escapevelocity
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Escapevelocity »

scifilover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
Thanks for sharing. Just curious, do you ever eat at restaurants? For us, that will be a category probably rivaling groceries. Also, nothing for entertainment?
scifilover
Posts: 372
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by scifilover »

Escapevelocity wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:49 pm
scifilover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
Thanks for sharing. Just curious, do you ever eat at restaurants? For us, that will be a category probably rivaling groceries. Also, nothing for entertainment?
RE: Restaurants......been on a low sodium diet for a long time....hard to do at restaurants...
RE: Entertainment.....We use to have symphony tickets, theater tickets, etc, but those events are in our relatively nearby metro area and the traffic, which was always bad, is really terrible. There are no transit options except for rush hour week days. We have big screens, and spend freely on cable/ streaming, and I don't parse those items for entertainment classification.
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Marmot
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Marmot »

smitcat wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:27 am Without income taxes our spending is pretty much what we expected/budgeted:
$60K per year covers all expenses to live comfortably but no extras
$120K per year is what we budget to do everything we want to do
Close to your budget. 75 per year with 120 cap. 2 houses, retired 6 years,big travel budget which we don’t seem to use enough :happy
Marty....don't go to the year 2020....Dr. Emmett Brown
Somethingwitty92912
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Somethingwitty92912 »

Admiral wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:00 am
Somethingwitty92912 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:57 am
MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
About 9k. I enjoy things like reading an gardening, so, I guess it comes back to values.
Assume you mean “what you value” and not your values. I also value reading and gardening but spend way more that $9k and none of those things are related to my personal values.
No, I didn’t miss-speak. (Miss wrote?) what you spend money on (to me) tells the world what you value. So, it shows your values.

You seem to be taking this judgmentally. Please don’t, this should allow someone to reflect on their own choices, at least that line of thinking has helped me to achieve freedom.

I think a failure to view money like this allows people to spend on things that are not only harmful to themselves and the world that surrounds them.
mtmingus
Posts: 470
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by mtmingus »

scifilover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
Thanks for sharing! Surprised at the high housing cost percentage and low travel cost percentage.
delamer
Posts: 11069
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by delamer »

mtmingus wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:35 am
scifilover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
Thanks for sharing! Surprised at the high housing cost percentage and low travel cost percentage.
It’s always interesting to me that people are surprised at how other people spend their money.

I read an article about two sisters who had radically different habits. One loved to travel and spend a big chunk of her budget to indulge that habit. The other was a “nester” and really enjoyed spending the money and effort to have a very comfortable home.

It took them a little while to understand that neither was right or wrong; they were just different.
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Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by jebmke »

delamer wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:58 am It’s always interesting to me that people are surprised at how other people spend their money.
Some (certainly not all) of that may be that some people end up spending money quite differently in retirement than they expected to when they were still working. I know for us, there are a couple of categories of spend that I expected to be dominant (travel, for example) that are very minor or non-existent for us in retirement. We traveled a lot when I was working (me especially) and I had in my mind that we would continue that after retiring but it just didn't work out that way.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
bwalling
Posts: 190
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by bwalling »

scifilover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
What categories have you found that increased once you retired? What decreased? I'm always curious to hear these - I'm perpetually fine tuning the plan, and I'm getting closer to actually retiring early (next 2-3 years), so I'm even more than ever attuned to exactly how it will play out.
H-Town
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by H-Town »

MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
We reached FI recently (50x annual expense of 60k). We're in our mid-30s. Our spending is still the same as pre-FI. 30k fixed + 30k discretionary (traveling, charitable donation, etc.). We put new saving towards rental properties now. We may up traveling budget after the pandemic.
EnjoyIt
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by EnjoyIt »

mak1277 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:20 am I'm planning on:

Current expenses
+ $25k annually for healthcare
+ $15-20k over current expenses annually for traveling.
This is very similar to how I see it. $20k for health care with a $6k deductible. $24k on travel. Once the mortgage is paid off, living expenses at home are just not that high. The big expenses is car replacement every 8-10 years for two people. New roof every 15-20 years. New AC every 15 years. Etc.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
kd2008
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by kd2008 »

Lexx wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:12 pm Dentistry - retired at age 56
goodenyou wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:56 am
Lexx wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:12 pm Well being a health care provider in VHCOL California with onerous regulations and a dwindling supply of employees, makes it VERY difficult to run a business here. The fees from insurance companies have not been materially raised in well over a decade while our overhead has gone up massively. My dad retired at 52. One week after his 70th birthday, I drove him to the hospital to have what was supposed to be routine surgery. That turned into a disaster resulting in him being wheelchair bound and developing dementia. He lived another 11 years but had no quality of life. So I looked at the whole situation. We have no guarantees of a healthy future. I've had friends drop dead or get cancer and die. With 3 young kids, I decided it was more important for me to be involved in their lives instead of being at the office. So I sold the practice and walked away. I do not regret it at all. I got out at the perfect time. I'd hate to have to run a practice now with this covid crisis hanging over everything.

The lessons are, be a saver, invest well, know when to walk away, and learn to smell the roses before it's too late.
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am
Lexx wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:36 am I'm in a rather unique situation because I retired at 56. I'm 59 right now with triplet 9 year old kids! Our biggest expense is healthcare premiums. Our total premium is $42k/yr for the family on a platinum Obamacare plan. That's a huge part of expenses - more than the total I'm paying for our small remaining mortgage, insurance and property taxes. We also live in a HCOL area so that doesn't help. Right now we spend just about all that we take in. But at least we're not touching our savings or retirement funds. I plan on drawing social security at 62, and with 3 kids, I should get a good chunk of change. At 65 I'll qualify for Medicare which will be another savings. I'm comfortable, probably considered HNW, but I'm nervous. It's impossible to predict the future. Lots of changes in tax laws are coming our way which will massively affect my inheritance and how I have to position our estate for our kids.
What caused you to retire?
How old are/were you when you retired from the practice of medicine?
Lexx, would it make sense to pick a HSA eligible HDHP plan? Family out of pocket maximum + premiums - tax savings of HSA contribution would be far less than 42k/yr. Why a platinum plan?
Lexx
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:21 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Lexx »

kd2008 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am
Lexx, would it make sense to pick a HSA eligible HDHP plan? Family out of pocket maximum + premiums - tax savings of HSA contribution would be far less than 42k/yr. Why a platinum plan?
Good question. I'm not sure I have enough other medical expenses to make use of an HSA, since the HSA itself can not be used to pay for the insurance premiums. I don't have long term care because I do not qualify. I have some medical issues that land me in the hospital every so often so I'd rather pay up front for the platinum coverage than the lesser tier plans because their copays are so high.
kd2008
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by kd2008 »

Lexx wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:45 pm
kd2008 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am
Lexx, would it make sense to pick a HSA eligible HDHP plan? Family out of pocket maximum + premiums - tax savings of HSA contribution would be far less than 42k/yr. Why a platinum plan?
Good question. I'm not sure I have enough other medical expenses to make use of an HSA, since the HSA itself can not be used to pay for the insurance premiums. I don't have long term care because I do not qualify. I have some medical issues that land me in the hospital every so often so I'd rather pay up front for the platinum coverage than the lesser tier plans because their copays are so high.
Thank you for explaining that.

Typically, the goal is minimizing the total healthcare outlay (premiums + out-of-pocket cost). The fact that you will have to pay high copays with high deductible plan is irrelevant or that HSA money cannot be used for premiums is also irrelevant. HSA can used to pay those high copays. I suspect the savings would be substantial if high deductible plan plus HSA is used as a) the savings in premiums over a platinum plan and b) tax savings from HSA contributions would be substantial. The savings can easily be 10s of thousands of dollars compared to platinum plan. But your specific situation may be unique and outside the norm that this may not apply.

Easy enough to compare and check at https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/ or your state exchange website if it has one.
kilkoyne
Posts: 149
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by kilkoyne »

InvestInPasta wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:13 am
kilkoyne wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:46 pm This is a great topic.

I'm single and an ultra-saver. My calculations for 2020 would have me at $42K spending. I included budgeting for $7K house maintenance and $3K vacation and $2K healthcare. I still have a mortgage and live in a HCOL area. I believe my expenses may go up when I retire with more vacationing but not drastically.

I'm estimating on the high side $50k-$60K/year spending after taxes (in today's dollars) with a mortgage but the mortgage could be gone if I wanted that. I'm so used to saving and living on frugally that I doubt more money would make me any happier.
Would you mind to post more details about your expenses?
I'm asking you, but I could ask the same to others, it's just that your post was the most detailed one.
I'm curious because life in US seems to be so expensive from here. I thought it was caused by healthcare insurance, but you wrote you spend only 2K$ per year on that one.

For example:
1) What's the recurring spending per year for your house (owned, excluding morgage)? I mean bills+Home tax.
2) What's for the car? I mean insurance+tax+gas+fines+maintenance
3) Eating? I mean grocery+restaurant+delivered pizza/food
This is showing 2019 numbers because 2020 was not normal with Covid. The $2k hospital bill in 2019 was not a normal occurrence either but I included it. Outside of medical insurance I probably only spend $100/year.

My health insurance is appr $60/PPD ($60 x 26 = $1,560/year). My coworker on the other hand spends 14K/year for family. I'm a nurse and take care of myself - Rarely ever go to primary care. If I have an issue I run it by the docs at work. My one medication, lab work, and care visits are all covered by insurance.

The only thing than is not included is heat. I have a wood stove with plenty of wood on my lot to last my lifetime. At some point I'll have to but oil though when I'm sick of burning wood.


Automotive Expenses $159.58 (Cheap Honda Civic and a used truck which are easy and cheap to fix)
 Bills & utilities $3,160.00 (Car/Home/Health Ins/Electric)
 Food & drink $261.66 (I don't go out to eat often, I prefer making my own meals)
 Gas $1,215.56
 Groceries $900.34
 Health & wellness $1,958.49 (Not a normal expenditure, I had a Hospital Admission in 2019)
 Home $7,564.58 (Allow 7K/year for home improvements -Bought kitchen cabinets and maple flooring which I installed myself)
 Shopping $1,112.50 (Everyday things and some tools and stuff that I like)
 Travel $3,106.12 (Allow myself 3K/year to travel)
"Rent"/Mortgage $18,000.00
Internet $1,650.00
Total $39,088.83
Last edited by kilkoyne on Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
plasticofantastico
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by plasticofantastico »

My wife and I are 59, retiring in the next 6-12 months, living in a HCOL area. For planning purposes, we made the conservative assumption that we will need what we currently make, minus what we are actively saving for retirement, minus the mortgage we recently paid off, minus support for our daughter that is graduating college soon, plus some money for travel. For us that’s $17,500/month after taxes, which will be partially offset by some small pensions and other income sources. It’s probably more than we actually need, so I expect we will adjust this down after a few years.
stoptothink
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by stoptothink »

plasticofantastico wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:25 pm My wife and I are 59, retiring in the next 6-12 months, living in a HCOL area. For planning purposes, we made the conservative assumption that we will need what we currently make, minus what we are actively saving for retirement, minus the mortgage we recently paid off, minus support for our daughter that is graduating college soon, plus some money for travel. For us that’s $17,500/month after taxes, which will be partially offset by some small pensions and other income sources. It’s probably more than we actually need, so I expect we will adjust this down after a few years.
$17,500/month in expenses without a mortgage or supporting a college student :shock: ?
plasticofantastico
Posts: 14
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by plasticofantastico »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:09 pm
plasticofantastico wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:25 pm My wife and I are 59, retiring in the next 6-12 months, living in a HCOL area. For planning purposes, we made the conservative assumption that we will need what we currently make, minus what we are actively saving for retirement, minus the mortgage we recently paid off, minus support for our daughter that is graduating college soon, plus some money for travel. For us that’s $17,500/month after taxes, which will be partially offset by some small pensions and other income sources. It’s probably more than we actually need, so I expect we will adjust this down after a few years.
$17,500/month in expenses without a mortgage or supporting a college student :shock: ?
I’m sure it will be less. We’re just playing it safe for planning purposes.
scifilover
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:56 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by scifilover »

bwalling wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:36 am
scifilover wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am I just reread this entire thread and found it interesting in what it said and did not say. We have been retired for over 19 years I totaled up our spending for that time (from Quicken), and it averaged $90k per year. The devil, as they say, is in the details.....
So here are the major categories...
Housing.................................16.4% Includes repairs, alterations, furniture, garden, HOA fees....etc
Income taxes..........................16.2% Includes significant Roth conversions, no state
Groceries................................9.1
Gifts Given..............................8.9 Includes 529 funding for grandkids
Medical..................................8.2 Includes med insurance
Prop Taxes...............................7.2 Includes a 2nd home
Travel....................................6.8
Util.......................................4.5
Autos.....................................4.1 Includes insurance
Insurance other than auto, med.....3.9
Telephone and Internet...............2.5
Computers..............................1.4
And a bunch of other little stuff for the balance.

I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this exercise was the cost of housing when you consider that the houses are paid for.
What categories have you found that increased once you retired? What decreased? I'm always curious to hear these - I'm perpetually fine tuning the plan, and I'm getting closer to actually retiring early (next 2-3 years), so I'm even more than ever attuned to exactly how it will play out.
We added the 2nd house about halfway through our retirement years. It needed substantial updating, and furnishings. So that would be one area of increase. Prior to buying we were traveling more during the Winter exploring various locations for a possible Winter escape. As far as decreases go, when you don't commute, cars can last a long time with reduced expenses.

Just one further thought. Activities drive expenses or the lack of them. We spent the first third of our retirement helping our parents as they went through their end of life periods. Fortunately, a lot of our expenses doing this were recovered from one of the trusts that I managed. We had to make a lot of trips to deal with disposal of real estate and managing their healthcare. Fortunately the CA Probate Code allowed for up to 2% of trust assets each year for trustee admin expenses. And, this was designed into the trust documents by their lawyer. During this period, we didn't have time to do other travel....
InvestInPasta
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:42 pm
Location: Italy

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by InvestInPasta »

kilkoyne wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:11 pm This is showing 2019 numbers because 2020 was not normal with Covid. The $2k hospital bill in 2019 was not a normal occurrence either but I included it. Outside of medical insurance I probably only spend $100/year.

My health insurance is appr $60/PPD ($60 x 26 = $1,560/year). My coworker on the other hand spends 14K/year for family. I'm a nurse and take care of myself - Rarely ever go to primary care. If I have an issue I run it by the docs at work. My one medication, lab work, and care visits are all covered by insurance.

The only thing than is not included is heat. I have a wood stove with plenty of wood on my lot to last my lifetime. At some point I'll have to but oil though when I'm sick of burning wood.


Automotive Expenses $159.58 (Cheap Honda Civic and a used truck which are easy and cheap to fix)
 Bills & utilities $3,160.00 (Car/Home/Health Ins/Electric)
 Food & drink $261.66 (I don't go out to eat often, I prefer making my own meals)
 Gas $1,215.56
 Groceries $900.34
 Health & wellness $1,958.49 (Not a normal expenditure, I had a Hospital Admission in 2019)
 Home $7,564.58 (Allow 7K/year for home improvements -Bought kitchen cabinets and maple flooring which I installed myself)
 Shopping $1,112.50 (Everyday things and some tools and stuff that I like)
 Travel $3,106.12 (Allow myself 3K/year to travel)
"Rent"/Mortgage $18,000.00
Internet $1,650.00
Total $39,088.83
these numbers make more sense to me.
Do you live in US, don't you?
If you take off the rent/mortgage (let's say one day you'll own an house and no debt) you would spend 21K per year that about the same I spend per year in northern Italy.

Since I read here that most people are spending 60K to 90K per year, and they retire with 50x expenses which means 3-5 million $ I was just wondering if this one is the situation of the average American. :mrgreen:
When I study English I am lazier than my portfolio. Feel free to fix my english and investing mistakes.
smitcat
Posts: 7581
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by smitcat »

InvestInPasta wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:02 pm
kilkoyne wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:11 pm This is showing 2019 numbers because 2020 was not normal with Covid. The $2k hospital bill in 2019 was not a normal occurrence either but I included it. Outside of medical insurance I probably only spend $100/year.

My health insurance is appr $60/PPD ($60 x 26 = $1,560/year). My coworker on the other hand spends 14K/year for family. I'm a nurse and take care of myself - Rarely ever go to primary care. If I have an issue I run it by the docs at work. My one medication, lab work, and care visits are all covered by insurance.

The only thing than is not included is heat. I have a wood stove with plenty of wood on my lot to last my lifetime. At some point I'll have to but oil though when I'm sick of burning wood.


Automotive Expenses $159.58 (Cheap Honda Civic and a used truck which are easy and cheap to fix)
 Bills & utilities $3,160.00 (Car/Home/Health Ins/Electric)
 Food & drink $261.66 (I don't go out to eat often, I prefer making my own meals)
 Gas $1,215.56
 Groceries $900.34
 Health & wellness $1,958.49 (Not a normal expenditure, I had a Hospital Admission in 2019)
 Home $7,564.58 (Allow 7K/year for home improvements -Bought kitchen cabinets and maple flooring which I installed myself)
 Shopping $1,112.50 (Everyday things and some tools and stuff that I like)
 Travel $3,106.12 (Allow myself 3K/year to travel)
"Rent"/Mortgage $18,000.00
Internet $1,650.00
Total $39,088.83
these numbers make more sense to me.
Do you live in US, don't you?
If you take off the rent/mortgage (let's say one day you'll own an house and no debt) you would spend 21K per year that about the same I spend per year in northern Italy.

Since I read here that most people are spending 60K to 90K per year, and they retire with 50x expenses which means 3-5 million $ I was just wondering if this one is the situation of the average American. :mrgreen:
"Since I read here that most people are spending 60K to 90K per year, and they retire with 50x expenses which means 3-5 million $ I was just wondering if this one is the situation of the average American."

A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - median household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - median HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
The figures for average and median were incorrectly switched - they are now corrected above and below.
Last edited by smitcat on Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
delamer
Posts: 11069
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by delamer »

InvestInPasta wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:02 pm
kilkoyne wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:11 pm This is showing 2019 numbers because 2020 was not normal with Covid. The $2k hospital bill in 2019 was not a normal occurrence either but I included it. Outside of medical insurance I probably only spend $100/year.

My health insurance is appr $60/PPD ($60 x 26 = $1,560/year). My coworker on the other hand spends 14K/year for family. I'm a nurse and take care of myself - Rarely ever go to primary care. If I have an issue I run it by the docs at work. My one medication, lab work, and care visits are all covered by insurance.

The only thing than is not included is heat. I have a wood stove with plenty of wood on my lot to last my lifetime. At some point I'll have to but oil though when I'm sick of burning wood.


Automotive Expenses $159.58 (Cheap Honda Civic and a used truck which are easy and cheap to fix)
 Bills & utilities $3,160.00 (Car/Home/Health Ins/Electric)
 Food & drink $261.66 (I don't go out to eat often, I prefer making my own meals)
 Gas $1,215.56
 Groceries $900.34
 Health & wellness $1,958.49 (Not a normal expenditure, I had a Hospital Admission in 2019)
 Home $7,564.58 (Allow 7K/year for home improvements -Bought kitchen cabinets and maple flooring which I installed myself)
 Shopping $1,112.50 (Everyday things and some tools and stuff that I like)
 Travel $3,106.12 (Allow myself 3K/year to travel)
"Rent"/Mortgage $18,000.00
Internet $1,650.00
Total $39,088.83
these numbers make more sense to me.
Do you live in US, don't you?
If you take off the rent/mortgage (let's say one day you'll own an house and no debt) you would spend 21K per year that about the same I spend per year in northern Italy.

Since I read here that most people are spending 60K to 90K per year, and they retire with 50x expenses which means 3-5 million $ I was just wondering if this one is the situation of the average American. :mrgreen:
Even though Bogleheads are an affluent bunch, assuming that most of us retire with 50X expenses is drawing the wrong conclusion.
sycamore
Posts: 1944
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by sycamore »

smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:48 pm ...
A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - average household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - average HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
What's the difference between "average" and "mean" here? Should one of those be "median" ?
smitcat
Posts: 7581
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by smitcat »

sycamore wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:57 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:48 pm ...
A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - average household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - average HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
What's the difference between "average" and "mean" here? Should one of those be "median" ?
Corrected below...
Last edited by smitcat on Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sailaway
Posts: 2993
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by sailaway »

smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:09 pm
sycamore wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:57 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:48 pm ...
A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - average household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - average HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
What's the difference between "average" and "mean" here? Should one of those be "median" ?
You are correct, mean is median.
Are you sure? Usually for these kinds of things, the mean is higher than the median.
smitcat
Posts: 7581
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by smitcat »

sailaway wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:15 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:09 pm
sycamore wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:57 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:48 pm ...
A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - average household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - average HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
What's the difference between "average" and "mean" here? Should one of those be "median" ?
You are correct, mean is median.
Are you sure? Usually for these kinds of things, the mean is higher than the median.
You are correct , here is one link but not the orginal one scratched some notes from above....
https://www.personalcapital.com/blog/re ... nt-income/
sailaway
Posts: 2993
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by sailaway »

Irrespective of the numbers, seems like it is going to be more and more important to look at spending, rather than income, as fewer people have pensions and hopefully more have savings, in a mix of traditional, Roth and taxable accounts.
InvestInPasta
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:42 pm
Location: Italy

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by InvestInPasta »

smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:48 pm A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - median household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - median HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
The figures for average and median were incorrectly switched - they are now corrected above and below.
Thank you, interesting.
Is the income gross? What's the average tax you pay on it?
In this way we can deduct the mean and median net income.

I have also read here "...the average monthly Social Security payment by only $20 to $1,543". If social security is 18K$ per year, I suppose most of the income in retirement comes from a portfolio/401k of savings (and maybe rental propreties).

It seems to be pretty expensive to retire in US nowadays. 8-)
When I study English I am lazier than my portfolio. Feel free to fix my english and investing mistakes.
Bbddl
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Bbddl »

Awesome thread...I'm going to take a much closer look at our current spending and projected spending in retirement. We would like to keep our income in retirement at the 12% tax bracket and hopefully not exceed it, roughly 80k. Im a state worker with both a pension and a 457 account. Spouse has a 401k. We have additional accounts as well. Retirement for both of us is within 1-2 years, I'm currently 60, wife is 51. We live in an HCOL area, that will change when retired. We do like travel, and are currently leaving tomorrow for Aruba. We have a few more trips already planned this year. Will post some figures later today and see how we compare with others.
smitcat
Posts: 7581
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by smitcat »

InvestInPasta wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:13 am
smitcat wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:48 pm A few stats based on 2020 data:
$43.8K - median household (HH) income in retirement
$67.2K - mean HH income in retirement
$34.8K - median HH income for 75+ year old
$54.4K - mean HH income for 75+ year old
The figures for average and median were incorrectly switched - they are now corrected above and below.
Thank you, interesting.
Is the income gross? What's the average tax you pay on it?
In this way we can deduct the mean and median net income.

I have also read here "...the average monthly Social Security payment by only $20 to $1,543". If social security is 18K$ per year, I suppose most of the income in retirement comes from a portfolio/401k of savings (and maybe rental propreties).

It seems to be pretty expensive to retire in US nowadays. 8-)

It appears to be problematic to retire in Italy now, not too optimistic at all ....
"According to our survey, retirees in Italy are also the least happy when it comes to being
able to afford the lifestyle they want in retirement. Almost 50% of retired respondents
stated they are unhappy with this aspect of retirement, the highest out of the eight
countries we looked at."
Source of quote and data:
https://www.ssga.com/library-content/pd ... apshot.pdf
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