Asking for a raise?

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gogreen
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:38 pm

Asking for a raise?

Post by gogreen »

Some context - I've been in industry for a while but got >5% bumps only by changing jobs :?
I'm in low management role in IT (~20 direct reports) and doing good (exceeding expectations). However the list of demands from my manager keeps growing every month :annoyed and I got only 3% annual increase last year.
I definitely feel that the latest bag of demands is waaaay above my role and paycheck so how to approach the conversation? 10% will make me happy :sharebeer
Normchad
Posts: 2224
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by Normchad »

gogreen wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 pm Some context - I've been in industry for a while but got >5% bumps only by changing jobs :?
I'm in low management role in IT (~20 direct reports) and doing good (exceeding expectations). However the list of demands from my manager keeps growing every month :annoyed and I got only 3% annual increase last year.
I definitely feel that the latest bag of demands is waaaay above my role and paycheck so how to approach the conversation? 10% will make me happy :sharebeer
Do you have a good grasp on what you are worth in the market place? I recommend you spend some time, and go do some interviews. See what other companies are willing to pay you, then decide what to do.

Unless/until you do this, you will never know. You might be paid correctly or right now, or you might be 50% underpaid. If you’re managing 20 other people, that’s decently significant.

What I’m saying is, 10% is probably the wrong number. Take the time to find the right number.
Tingting1013
Posts: 1139
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by Tingting1013 »

20 direct reports sounds crazy, how do you even have time for weekly 1:1s with them all?
Topic Author
gogreen
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:38 pm

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by gogreen »

Normchad wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:18 pm
gogreen wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 pm Some context - I've been in industry for a while but got >5% bumps only by changing jobs :?
I'm in low management role in IT (~20 direct reports) and doing good (exceeding expectations). However the list of demands from my manager keeps growing every month :annoyed and I got only 3% annual increase last year.
I definitely feel that the latest bag of demands is waaaay above my role and paycheck so how to approach the conversation? 10% will make me happy :sharebeer
Do you have a good grasp on what you are worth in the market place? I recommend you spend some time, and go do some interviews. See what other companies are willing to pay you, then decide what to do.

Unless/until you do this, you will never know. You might be paid correctly or right now, or you might be 50% underpaid. If you’re managing 20 other people, that’s decently significant.

What I’m saying is, 10% is probably the wrong number. Take the time to find the right number.
I'm slightly behind the market. My friend with similar role but stinky tech stack makes 15% more. Another friend makes 5% less. Similar role in a local bank pays -5% to +20% more
DoubleComma
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by DoubleComma »

In your company are there compensation grades and are each position assigned to a grade?

If so, make sure you have a solid grasp of ranges in those grades to ensure you asking for the right thing. It might be that you don’t need to ask for a salary adjustment; you need to show how you role has grown and it is really a grade change that you need. Inevitably that will create a raise, but it will also put you at the low end of the grade range, making future raises potentially more fruitful.
Topic Author
gogreen
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:38 pm

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by gogreen »

DoubleComma wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:29 pm In your company are there compensation grades and are each position assigned to a grade?

If so, make sure you have a solid grasp of ranges in those grades to ensure you asking for the right thing. It might be that you don’t need to ask for a salary adjustment; you need to show how you role has grown and it is really a grade change that you need. Inevitably that will create a raise, but it will also put you at the low end of the grade range, making future raises potentially more fruitful.
Yup, it's big enterprise with bells and whistles. I even know the ranges for all the grades below me, mine and the grade above. Not sure how tough the promotion might be - any suggestions on how to frame this talk?
Normchad
Posts: 2224
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by Normchad »

gogreen wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:27 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:18 pm
gogreen wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 pm Some context - I've been in industry for a while but got >5% bumps only by changing jobs :?
I'm in low management role in IT (~20 direct reports) and doing good (exceeding expectations). However the list of demands from my manager keeps growing every month :annoyed and I got only 3% annual increase last year.
I definitely feel that the latest bag of demands is waaaay above my role and paycheck so how to approach the conversation? 10% will make me happy :sharebeer
Do you have a good grasp on what you are worth in the market place? I recommend you spend some time, and go do some interviews. See what other companies are willing to pay you, then decide what to do.

Unless/until you do this, you will never know. You might be paid correctly or right now, or you might be 50% underpaid. If you’re managing 20 other people, that’s decently significant.

What I’m saying is, 10% is probably the wrong number. Take the time to find the right number.
I'm slightly behind the market. My friend with similar role but stinky tech stack makes 15% more. Another friend makes 5% less. Similar role in a local bank pays -5% to +20% more
I bet if you put in the effort, you can more than a 15% bump by looking around. None of us are smarter than the market. Go out into the market, and let it tell you the right number. (Maybe all your friends are underpaid).

There is no downside to doing this. None whatsoever. If you don’t get any offers, just go back to work. If you don’t get any offers you like, just go back to work.

But, if you get some great offers, then you can either take them or use them to help your your current employer understand why they should pay you more. Who knows, somebody might offer you better work conditions, and 50%. You will never know unless you look....
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geerhardusvos
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Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by geerhardusvos »

gogreen wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 pm Some context - I've been in industry for a while but got >5% bumps only by changing jobs :?
I'm in low management role in IT (~20 direct reports) and doing good (exceeding expectations). However the list of demands from my manager keeps growing every month :annoyed and I got only 3% annual increase last year.
I definitely feel that the latest bag of demands is waaaay above my role and paycheck so how to approach the conversation? 10% will make me happy :sharebeer
Draw your boundaries, and set expectations. That can be hard to do if you are already overstretched and have let them give you too much. Tell them what raise you expect by what date, otherwise you’ll be considering other offers. Actually getting an offer is also a good way to negotiate a raise if you want to stay in the situation, but it doesn’t sound ideal anyways. From what I can see, time to consider other groups or other companies. But if you really like the people and if the company is in a good position in the market, don’t underestimate your ability to be able to negotiate a raise. It often takes an executive sponsor, so make sure you have well documented the feedback you were getting regarding high-performance.
VTSAX and chill
DoubleComma
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by DoubleComma »

gogreen wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:29 pm In your company are there compensation grades and are each position assigned to a grade?

If so, make sure you have a solid grasp of ranges in those grades to ensure you asking for the right thing. It might be that you don’t need to ask for a salary adjustment; you need to show how you role has grown and it is really a grade change that you need. Inevitably that will create a raise, but it will also put you at the low end of the grade range, making future raises potentially more fruitful.
Yup, it's big enterprise with bells and whistles. I even know the ranges for all the grades below me, mine and the grade above. Not sure how tough the promotion might be - any suggestions on how to frame this talk?
Without knowing what you know about you company and role, it’s hard to give specific advice.

In my case, I’m working on a grade change currently. For the past 6 months I’ve been very open with direct manager (who is a member of the executive team) that I believe my role needs to be re-graded. I was given lip service initially, but I was able to show irrefutable evidence of how my role how grown much bigger than it was initially. Historically to get the grade I want you had to be a manager of managers; however those roles have been systematically replaced by a matrix management system we have now. Today I have 12 direct reports and another 26 indirect who support my team exclusively. Historically those indirect roles would be in my org and would have first line level mangers and supervisors responsible for them who would report to me ... thus a manager of managers. Now these roles, on paper, report to a national management team at my same grade as I, but really I manage them on daily basis. Combine this with an effective doubling of financial deliverables I’m responsible for over the past 4 years believe my role needs to be upgraded.

Our FY starts 7/1; I’m told the grade will be reset then. Right now I only have faith that it will happen, if it doesn’t I’ll have to re-evaluate things.

Hopefully my story gives you some things to think about to develop your own strategy.

By the way, the idea of shopping the market doesn’t work great for me. You mention Bells and Whistles; I have the same thing and some are very hard to re-establish in a new company; if it’s even available. For a typical individual contributor testing the market is wise; but at my level the next step is likely a member of the executive team. Those aren’t jobs you apply for, those of roles that find you through your network and reputation.
123
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Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by 123 »

If you have 20 direct reports it's time to look for a position elsewhere. Twenty direct reports overwhelms a manager with pedestrian administrative and HR issues, there is not time to establish innovative goals and train staff towards them. You can't shine as a manager with 20 direct reports, you're herding cats.

If you look around your organization you'll find that the managers that are respected and get results (maybe even your own manager) likely have around 5 to 7 direct reports. They also likely get raises that they don't need to complain about.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
miket29
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Asking for a raise?

Post by miket29 »

So for a year they've asked you to do more and more, but all they gave you last year in salary was basically a COL adjustment. I hate to break it like this, but they don't see you as an up-and-comer, they see you as a cog in the machine. They figure if you don't like it you'll leave and they'll quickly replace you without missing a beat. And to play the devils advocate, they might be right; you could be falling for the Dunning-Krueger fallacy and believe you're doing a bang-up job and would be hard to replace at what they're paying you when that isn't actually true.

So my advice is test the waters and see what you're worth. Quietly interview and see if you get significantly better offers. Much more than a 10% boost, BTW. And if you do, then take one. Don't negotiate, don't see if they'll match. Even if they do they won't trust you. Instead walk away with nothing but praise for your current employer and management. Simply smile and say business is business, you've got a family to support or whatever. They'll respect you for that, it's what they do when they lay people off and then go on without regrets or sorrow. And if you don't burn any bridges, who knows? They might want you back (at that new higher salary plus a kicker) in a few years.
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