Refinance Mega Thread

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:33 pm As a datapoint for others, Better collected $550 from me as an appraisal deposit to lock my rate. I knew no appraisal would be needed and, sure enough, it was waived. This morning I got my closing disclosures and this evening there was an additional document with a credit card receipt for a $550 refund. I know some people have had issues with the appraisal refunds, but thankfully this went smoothly.

Only negative is that they didn't just mail me a check. I used a 2.625% rebate card for that. Oh well, $14 won't make a difference either way on getting the refi.
Congrats, sounds like you snuck in 1 more refi before rates spiked!
Yeah. And I bumped up my rate to 2.625% to get a nice chunk of cash profit up front. My options were 2.25% at $200 in closing costs or 2.375% at $400 profit to be near-no-cost refis. Between all 4 refis the past few months, I got paid over $12k to refi! :moneybag
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:57 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:33 pm As a datapoint for others, Better collected $550 from me as an appraisal deposit to lock my rate. I knew no appraisal would be needed and, sure enough, it was waived. This morning I got my closing disclosures and this evening there was an additional document with a credit card receipt for a $550 refund. I know some people have had issues with the appraisal refunds, but thankfully this went smoothly.

Only negative is that they didn't just mail me a check. I used a 2.625% rebate card for that. Oh well, $14 won't make a difference either way on getting the refi.
Congrats, sounds like you snuck in 1 more refi before rates spiked!
Yeah. And I bumped up my rate to 2.625% to get a nice chunk of cash profit up front. My options were 2.25% at $200 in closing costs or 2.375% at $400 profit to be near-no-cost refis.
How much money did you make off this time? 2.625% is still pretty good, imagine telling your 2019 self that 2.625% would be a high rate for a refi! I hope you don't end up with Mr. Cooper again. :sharebeer
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:04 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:57 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:33 pm As a datapoint for others, Better collected $550 from me as an appraisal deposit to lock my rate. I knew no appraisal would be needed and, sure enough, it was waived. This morning I got my closing disclosures and this evening there was an additional document with a credit card receipt for a $550 refund. I know some people have had issues with the appraisal refunds, but thankfully this went smoothly.

Only negative is that they didn't just mail me a check. I used a 2.625% rebate card for that. Oh well, $14 won't make a difference either way on getting the refi.
Congrats, sounds like you snuck in 1 more refi before rates spiked!
Yeah. And I bumped up my rate to 2.625% to get a nice chunk of cash profit up front. My options were 2.25% at $200 in closing costs or 2.375% at $400 profit to be near-no-cost refis.
How much money did you make off this time? 2.625% is still pretty good, imagine telling your 2019 self that 2.625% would be a high rate for a refi! I hope you don't end up with Mr. Cooper again. :sharebeer
At 2.625% I get $1,600 in profit. Keep in mind that at my $140k loan size, 2.375% -> 2.625% is about $3k in interest increase over all 15 years. I'll get almost half of that up front instead.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:11 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:04 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:57 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:33 pm As a datapoint for others, Better collected $550 from me as an appraisal deposit to lock my rate. I knew no appraisal would be needed and, sure enough, it was waived. This morning I got my closing disclosures and this evening there was an additional document with a credit card receipt for a $550 refund. I know some people have had issues with the appraisal refunds, but thankfully this went smoothly.

Only negative is that they didn't just mail me a check. I used a 2.625% rebate card for that. Oh well, $14 won't make a difference either way on getting the refi.
Congrats, sounds like you snuck in 1 more refi before rates spiked!
Yeah. And I bumped up my rate to 2.625% to get a nice chunk of cash profit up front. My options were 2.25% at $200 in closing costs or 2.375% at $400 profit to be near-no-cost refis.
How much money did you make off this time? 2.625% is still pretty good, imagine telling your 2019 self that 2.625% would be a high rate for a refi! I hope you don't end up with Mr. Cooper again. :sharebeer
At 2.625% I get $1,600 in profit. Keep in mind that at my $140k loan size, 2.375% -> 2.625% is about $3k in interest increase over all 15 years. I'll get almost half of that up front instead.
and even more dramatic than that if you itemize.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:11 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:04 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:57 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:33 pm As a datapoint for others, Better collected $550 from me as an appraisal deposit to lock my rate. I knew no appraisal would be needed and, sure enough, it was waived. This morning I got my closing disclosures and this evening there was an additional document with a credit card receipt for a $550 refund. I know some people have had issues with the appraisal refunds, but thankfully this went smoothly.

Only negative is that they didn't just mail me a check. I used a 2.625% rebate card for that. Oh well, $14 won't make a difference either way on getting the refi.
Congrats, sounds like you snuck in 1 more refi before rates spiked!
Yeah. And I bumped up my rate to 2.625% to get a nice chunk of cash profit up front. My options were 2.25% at $200 in closing costs or 2.375% at $400 profit to be near-no-cost refis.
How much money did you make off this time? 2.625% is still pretty good, imagine telling your 2019 self that 2.625% would be a high rate for a refi! I hope you don't end up with Mr. Cooper again. :sharebeer
At 2.625% I get $1,600 in profit. Keep in mind that at my $140k loan size, 2.375% -> 2.625% is about $3k in interest increase over all 15 years. I'll get almost half of that up front instead.
Great job Brandon. You have done amazing with such a low balance, very impressive.

Personally I am glad I went for the lowest 30 year no cost rate (bird in hand) in July instead of trying to get paid for my 2nd refi. But glad I got paid for my March refi, that $2.1k went straight into VTSAX... and we know how well the market did in 2020 since March... I guess the gravy train had to end some time.
tonythomas1221
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tonythomas1221 »

I have refi offer from broker and ex-neighbor.

First quotes where based on my estimate of $270K. I used Zillow and recent sales of my same floor plan, block, condition are not above $265K. These are 2500sq ft town homes, 4 year old. So pretty easy to guesstimate. I paid $240K on 10/2019. At that time, appraised for $250K. Currently I have FHA, 3.85%, primary residence in South Carolina.

He's always hard to get in touch with, and usually just text/emails me at best... Today he emails me the quote and calls saying its easier to explain over the phone that due to Fanny/Freddie lending 'loopholes' we can get a no appraisal refinance (30y fixed) with no PMI. I was driving so couldn't review. The new quote today is based on a home value of $295K (magic number to get me to 80% LTV for no PMI).

Obviously my radar is going off!! Any thoughts on my risks here? Could Freedie/Fanny come back and contest this? Or ask for appraisal later in the app process?

Terms---
Rate: 2.875%
Closing total fees: $3800
Lender credits: $1279

NO appraisal, no cash out, no point purchased.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

tonythomas1221 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:36 pm I have refi offer from broker and ex-neighbor.

First quotes where based on my estimate of $270K. I used Zillow and recent sales of my same floor plan, block, condition are not above $265K. These are 2500sq ft town homes, 4 year old. So pretty easy to guesstimate. I paid $240K on 10/2019. At that time, appraised for $250K. Currently I have FHA, 3.85%, primary residence in South Carolina.

He's always hard to get in touch with, and usually just text/emails me at best... Today he emails me the quote and calls saying its easier to explain over the phone that due to Fanny/Freddie lending 'loopholes' we can get a no appraisal refinance (30y fixed) with no PMI. I was driving so couldn't review. The new quote today is based on a home value of $295K (magic number to get me to 80% LTV for no PMI).

Obviously my radar is going off!! Any thoughts on my risks here? Could Freedie/Fanny come back and contest this? Or ask for appraisal later in the app process?

Terms---
Rate: 2.875%
Closing total fees: $3800
Lender credits: $1279

NO appraisal, no cash out, no point purchased.
it's just an appraisal waiver. Nothing to worry about on that front. I said my house was $999,999 a couple days after purchasing it for 50k less and it was fine.

Not sure if that rate is great given the closing costs. I imagine you can do better. Try LenderFi and see if you can same rate or even 3% at no closing costs. Use the 295k estimate, though. Good luck
revheck
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by revheck »

All, I have been putting off refinancing my 3.5% mortgage until we finish a remodel end of this month, but now I see rates going up and think I need to jump.

Can anyone recommend a broker in Northern Virginia who can help me lock a good rate fast? PM me if necessary.

Or advise me how to lock something in fast myself. We are in this house long term, so I don't mind paying some fees or even points to lock in a low rate for the long term. Here are the numbers:

Current Mortgage: $585K @ 3.5%
HELOC $55K at prime - 1%, but with a 4% floor.
Purchase price: $755K
Current Value: $830 according to Zillow, $815 according to Redfin

I would like to cashout and roll the HELOC and Mortgage into a single loan, but if that ruins my rate or slows things down I will likely have enough cash from an inheritance later this month sufficient to just pay off the HELOC.

Thanks.
TMMB
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TMMB »

I got better to beat LC by offering $4600 in lender credit. They also quoted me $2800 in section D cost. I shopped and selected Radian to do title service and was able to reduce section D cost down to $1200.

In light of reduced section D cost from $2800 to $1200, does Better has the right to reduce Lender credit as well by the same amount, in this case $1600?
mgbt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mgbt »

I posted this as a new post before noticing this mega thread.

I'm refinancing $1.1m 3.49% 30 year $5015 per month. I have two loan pricings. Which one would you go for?

2.75%, 0 pts, $5500 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $730 appraisal fee
$730 out of pocket cost for appraisal (appraisal not covered by lender credits)
$2867 ($3597 - $730) of $5500 lender credit is applied to closing cost
$2633 of $5500 lender credit is applied to reduce principle
$4494 per month

2.625%, 0 pts, $0 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $810 appraisal fee
$4424 per month

2.625 is $70 per month less but costs $4770 ($5500 - $730) more compared to 2.75. About 5.7 years to break even.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

TMMB wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:40 pm I got better to beat LC by offering $4600 in lender credit. They also quoted me $2800 in section D cost. I shopped and selected Radian to do title service and was able to reduce section D cost down to $1200.

In light of reduced section D cost from $2800 to $1200, does Better has the right to reduce Lender credit as well by the same amount, in this case $1600?
No, that won’t change things. Just keep in mind that you had to switch to Radian vs. having Better’s default provider from matching the Radian cost as they typically do that via lender credits and Better has a $5k cap of credits.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mgbt wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:13 am I posted this as a new post before noticing this mega thread.

I'm refinancing $1.1m 3.49% 30 year $5015 per month. I have two loan pricings. Which one would you go for?

2.75%, 0 pts, $5500 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $730 appraisal fee
$730 out of pocket cost for appraisal (appraisal not covered by lender credits)
$2867 ($3597 - $730) of $5500 lender credit is applied to closing cost
$2633 of $5500 lender credit is applied to reduce principle
$4494 per month

2.625%, 0 pts, $0 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $810 appraisal fee
$4424 per month

2.625 is $70 per month less but costs $4770 ($5500 - $730) more compared to 2.75. About 5.7 years to break even.
I wouldn’t look at the first offer the way you laid it out. Is $3,597 what Sections A + B + C + E add up too? If $3,597 includes Sections F and G, subtract those out. Don’t focus on the appraisal being paid outside of closing. You are being paid to refi, which is always a good place to be.

Personally I would choose 2.75% in this case, but I also have a balance only 10% of yours, so the interest penalty is much less for me.

Are both of these with the same lender? If not, what would the first lender reduce your credits to for 2.625%?
as9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by as9 »

ma21n2 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:27 pm Has anyone started refi application process without first locking the rate? (i.e., floating the rate) I have a 2nd mortgage that needs to be subordinated, so my broker thinks I need a 45-day lock, instead of 30-day. A 45-day lock reduces lender credit by more than $1,000, so I figured I'd just wait a couple weeks for the paperwork to proceed a bit and then do a 30-day lock (or maybe wait even longer and do a 15 day lock). Not sure if I'm being smart or not.

(I'm guessing this strategy won't really work if you want to negotiate a better rate, rather than take the advertised rate)
I'm now on my second refi with LenderFi with subordination of a 2nd mortgage. The first one took about 3 months to close, mainly because the other lender took forever to respond (partially due to offices being closed from Covid - this was in the spring). LenderFi honored the rate even though it went way past the lock date.

Did no cost both times, but they bumped up the rate a bit each time. Locked in a 30 year, 2.75 at the end of last week. Hopefully this one doesn't take as long.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

mgbt wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:13 am I posted this as a new post before noticing this mega thread.

I'm refinancing $1.1m 3.49% 30 year $5015 per month. I have two loan pricings. Which one would you go for?

2.75%, 0 pts, $5500 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $730 appraisal fee
$730 out of pocket cost for appraisal (appraisal not covered by lender credits)
$2867 ($3597 - $730) of $5500 lender credit is applied to closing cost
$2633 of $5500 lender credit is applied to reduce principle
$4494 per month

2.625%, 0 pts, $0 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $810 appraisal fee
$4424 per month

2.625 is $70 per month less but costs $4770 ($5500 - $730) more compared to 2.75. About 5.7 years to break even.
Using the interest rate differential versus a $5500 lender credit difference, I calculate 4 years to break even (longer than that if you itemize). In either case, my view is that the breakeven is long enough that the 2.75% deal is better. It is great to get paid thousands of dollars to refi!
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:36 pm
presto987 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:04 am Interactive Mortgage is again advertising 2.375%
I don't get how they moved down in rate... amazing
They’re back at 2.625. Maybe 2.375 didn’t happen again.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:26 am
Goal33 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:36 pm
presto987 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:04 am Interactive Mortgage is again advertising 2.375%
I don't get how they moved down in rate... amazing
They’re back at 2.625. Maybe 2.375 didn’t happen again.
Interesting - I bet they meant to change it from 2.5% to 2.625% and accidentally put 2.375%.
asahopkins
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by asahopkins »

asahopkins wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:02 am
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm
All_About_Benjis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm We are refinancing our home, and I'm trying to work out whether to do a no-cost refi or pay points for a lower rate.

Situation:
Loan would be for ~$670k; LTV ~0.6. FICO 760+. Super-conforming.
We're going to be in this house forever (or let's assume so).

LenderFi is offering a no-cost at 3.0%, no points (costs ~$1600) for 2.875%, and 0.56 points ($3800 + $1600 costs) for 2.75%

Argument for the no-cost option: preserves the ability to refinance again in ~6 months if rates are lower. Right now, the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is about 0.5 points above the long-term average. If Treasuries stay low (which seems likely given the pandemic) then mortgage rates should fall further.

Argument for paying for points: We'll be in the house for long enough to get the payoff. Only have to shop for refinance and do paperwork once. Rates may not fall further (or they may fall far enough that refinancing is worth it anyway -- e.g. if the no-cost level got down below 2.75%).

I welcome your thinking on this topic/choice. Thank you!
Quick question - are you getting these rates online or by calling? I've been on the hunt for a 3.0% with no cost to us, but LenderFi's online estimates include about $2000 in closing costs.
By calling. Rates about 0.125% (or so) less calling than they were online. Well: I filled out the online application, then they started emailing and calling me, and we got to where we are.
Just an update to share what we did, and what we just signed:

We just locked a 2.99% 30 year fixed with Loan Depot, with about $5700 in lender credit that more than cancels about $3700 in closing costs (A+B+C+D; not counting escrow, prepaid interest, etc). Basically, they'll pay us $2000 to refinance down from 3.75% to 2.99% and save almost $500/month.

You may see above that I was citing offers from LenderFi. We had a parallel conversation ongoing with a very committed salesperson at Loan Depot who said "whatever the other lender is offering, we'll match it or do better". So, I was carrying him along with LenderFi. He was able to match the 2.75% deal, with points. What I figured out was that the rate sheet of how interest rates vary with points paid (or credited) were different between LenderFi and Loan Depot. LenderFi was offering the same deal at 2.75% and 2.875% as Loan Depot, but at 3.0%, LenderFi was offering just "no cost" but not a credit. LoanDepot was offering a credit, so we shifted to their offer.

So, we ended up $2000 better off once we decided to go the "no cost" route. This takes the payback for points (if we had bought them) out past 8 years, and also means we preserve the option to refinance again in a few months if rates fall further.
Update: we refinanced again in December-January with LenderFi. We got a pure no-cost refi at 2.5%, down 0.5% from our first refi. We rolled closing costs (escrow, etc) into the loan, so the balance is slightly higher, but borrowing an extra few thousand over 30 years at 2.5% with deductible interest seems a good deal to us. Across 2 refinances, we come out $2000 ahead and cut interest from 3.75% to 2.5%, cutting monthly payments by about $700 and total interest paid by about $100k over the remaining life of the loan.

Comparing LoanDepot and LenderFi, the most notable was the speed. LenderFi managed to complete the whole process in less than a month, whereas it took 2 months for LoanDepot. Pleased they were so fast, to be able to get done before this recent increase in rates.
mgbt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mgbt »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:50 am
mgbt wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:13 am I posted this as a new post before noticing this mega thread.

I'm refinancing $1.1m 3.49% 30 year $5015 per month. I have two loan pricings. Which one would you go for?

2.75%, 0 pts, $5500 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $730 appraisal fee
$730 out of pocket cost for appraisal (appraisal not covered by lender credits)
$2867 ($3597 - $730) of $5500 lender credit is applied to closing cost
$2633 of $5500 lender credit is applied to reduce principle
$4494 per month

2.625%, 0 pts, $0 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $810 appraisal fee
$4424 per month

2.625 is $70 per month less but costs $4770 ($5500 - $730) more compared to 2.75. About 5.7 years to break even.
I wouldn’t look at the first offer the way you laid it out. Is $3,597 what Sections A + B + C + E add up too? If $3,597 includes Sections F and G, subtract those out. Don’t focus on the appraisal being paid outside of closing. You are being paid to refi, which is always a good place to be.

Personally I would choose 2.75% in this case, but I also have a balance only 10% of yours, so the interest penalty is much less for me.

Are both of these with the same lender? If not, what would the first lender reduce your credits to for 2.625%?
Yes, $3,597 includes sections F and G. They are different lenders. The first lender's option of 2.625% adds 1 point and removes lender's credit, really not an option. When you say "If $3,597 includes Sections F and G, subtract those out", can you explain what you mean by it?
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ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Another data point from a serial refinancer. My 6-month wait period with Lenderfi expires next month so I called them up to discuss if they could redo my loan. I'm currently at 2.75% on a 30-year, high conforming balance ($712k). The guy said rates went up so they wouldn't be able to offer it to me since their rate insurance program requires a benefit of 0.25% or more.

After reading about Interactive Mortgage on this thread I reached out to them. Their website showed 2.375% so figured it was worth a call. After talking with the rep he confirmed they could offer me 2.375% with lender credit to cover all closing costs. Only thing they won't cover is the HOA certification fee, which they put in a $250 placeholder for now. The rate requires an LTV of 60% which will be tight for me depending on the appraisal. That said, if it trickles higher than 60% they only add 1/8th to the rate, so I'd get 2.5%. I'd also have the option to pay down some principal on the loan to get to 60% LTV and receive the 2.375% rate if I want.

Given it looks like rates are heading up, I went ahead and locked and submitted required docs (W-2s, Homeowner Insurance, Pay Stubs, etc.). Very easy process so far. Next step is waiting on appraisal. Will follow-up and report out how this proceeds in case it's helpful for others.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mgbt wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:08 pm Yes, $3,597 includes sections F and G. They are different lenders. The first lender's option of 2.625% adds 1 point and removes lender's credit, really not an option. When you say "If $3,597 includes Sections F and G, subtract those out", can you explain what you mean by it?
Sections F and G are things you pay for regardless of a refi, so you should count them as costs when comparing offers.

The two lenders may have different amounts in there, but that won’t matter since they aren’t true costs of the refi.

Based on what you have shared, 2.75% is a much more lucrative deal.
HockeyFan99
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by HockeyFan99 »

I've been reading through the pages and pages and trying to piece things together, but since I see there may be an incentive to move quickly if rates are rising I'm hoping for a quick read on whether a refi is likely to make sense for me and, if so, where to start (it seems like order of approaching different lenders may matter).

Quick details:

1. Purchased townhome/condo in New Jersey in late 2020, so only made 3 payments and LTV (at least based on purchase price) is basically 80% still.
2. Currently in a 2.75% fixed rate 30 year mortgage (was obtained with aid of relationship discount from mortgage lender).
3. Unlikely to want to pay down additional principal (or pay points) to lower rate - would like to stay in 30 year fixed with essentially same loan balance (approx. $550K now).

Think I am likely to do meaningfully better and, if so, any recommendations on where to start? :sharebeer
"I'm spending a year dead for tax reasons." - Hotblack Desiato
Jb526
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jb526 »

I'm currently trying to refinance a primary residence and likely an investment property also. This will be the first time refinancing the primary residence. And the last time refinancing the investment property was over a decade ago. Back then, I blindly went with a couple very big, popular nationwide banks, but now I'm noticing the value of comparing lenders and negotiating things a bit.

I've perused this thread, but I don't understand some things on how the negotiation works. Can you lock a rate with a lender and still continue to present LEs from other lenders for them to match or beat? And how does the negotiation work when it spans a number of days and you're working with LEs produced on different dates? Isn't the information considered expired? Then, further, how do you deal with the rate fluctuations? If rates drop while all this matching and beating is going on, it seems like a borrower would have to start a whole new application in order to get the then-current rates if they've dropped. Or are both the rate/points and the loan fees being negotiated? Or, worse, what if rates rise during such tactics?

I feel so naive asking such questions, but this is definitely new territory for me.
Last edited by Jb526 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kir_royale
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kir_royale »

Have been reading this thread and completing a home renovation in 2020, and just locked last weekend. $691,000 balance, $1.2 million value (as of Jan 2020 appraisal), existing 30 year fixed, 3.75%. Shopping same term, just lower rate. California. Got rates from

Amerisave
2.625% APR
$2,666 closing costs
$2,830 payment

Quicken
2.75% APR
$4,116 closing costs
$2,869 payment

Loan Depot
2.625% APR
$481 closing costs
$2,783 payment

Interactive Mortgage
2.5% APR
$337 closing costs
$2,738 payment

We're going with Interactive Mortgage.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

HockeyFan99 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm I've been reading through the pages and pages and trying to piece things together, but since I see there may be an incentive to move quickly if rates are rising I'm hoping for a quick read on whether a refi is likely to make sense for me and, if so, where to start (it seems like order of approaching different lenders may matter).

Quick details:

1. Purchased townhome/condo in New Jersey in late 2020, so only made 3 payments and LTV (at least based on purchase price) is basically 80% still.
2. Currently in a 2.75% fixed rate 30 year mortgage (was obtained with aid of relationship discount from mortgage lender).
3. Unlikely to want to pay down additional principal (or pay points) to lower rate - would like to stay in 30 year fixed with essentially same loan balance (approx. $550K now).

Think I am likely to do meaningfully better and, if so, any recommendations on where to start? :sharebeer
Unfortunately with this week's rates you're probably best where you're at now.

That said, here are the best places to look for rates without actually applying:
-Lender Fi
-Loan Depot (will have to talk to a person, but can get a rate without applying)
-Costco, if you're a member
-Other standard websites: bankrate, zillow, etc.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Jb526 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:42 pm the last time refinancing ... was over a decade ago. Back then, I blindly went with a couple very big, popular nationwide banks, but now I'm noticing the value of comparing lenders and negotiating things a bit.

...

I feel so naive asking such questions, but this is definitely new territory for me.
This will vary from lender to lender. Generally speaking, a locked LE carries more weight as its terms are valid until the expiration date of the LE in the top right of page 1.

However, many lenders will accept an LE if it is from within a business day or two. They may not beat it, or by much, but may entertain competing against it.

Meanwhile, some lenders will continue to work with you if you find better offers along the way. A notable lender here is Better.com (who sadly, rarely gives a competitive offer without competing with someone else).

Other lenders may not negotiate further only you give them the intent to proceed. A notable lender here is LenderFi (who thankfully usually give a reasonably competitive offer on their website without even applying - and often improve the offer when they process your app).

It will vary depending on which lenders you are working with if you get anywhere with improving things once you got the ball rolling. At the very least, an initial round of shopping around does typically provide significant savings.

If at any point you get an offer you could live with, consider locking it immediately. Rates and points/credits can change even infra-day, so if you don’t lock right away, the offer may not be there anymore when you do.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

drk wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:56 pm For those who paid the appraisal deposit with LoanDepot but withdrew/cancelled the application, how long did it take for them to refund the deposit? Did they do it automatically?
Answering my own question: they're supposed to do it automatically, but ping your LO if you don't see it after a week or so. I did and got the refund later that day.
chazas
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chazas »

I was super happy with loanDepot, and the process was not particularly difficult. I first requested rates on 12/17 from LoanDepot, Amerisave and LenderFi. LoanDepot beat LenderFi's offer which was already good. Had a few follow-up requests for additional information since I'm a law firm partner, not a W2 employee, but got that straightened out. Signed on 1/7. Had a couple of requests from the title company after that related to a recent divorce. Funded 1/12, hoping to see my existing loan payoff reflected very shortly. 15 year, 2.875% down to 2.125%, no out of pocket costs and am expecting a couple of hundred dollars back.
HockeyFan99
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by HockeyFan99 »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:47 pm
HockeyFan99 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm I've been reading through the pages and pages and trying to piece things together, but since I see there may be an incentive to move quickly if rates are rising I'm hoping for a quick read on whether a refi is likely to make sense for me and, if so, where to start (it seems like order of approaching different lenders may matter).

Quick details:

1. Purchased townhome/condo in New Jersey in late 2020, so only made 3 payments and LTV (at least based on purchase price) is basically 80% still.
2. Currently in a 2.75% fixed rate 30 year mortgage (was obtained with aid of relationship discount from mortgage lender).
3. Unlikely to want to pay down additional principal (or pay points) to lower rate - would like to stay in 30 year fixed with essentially same loan balance (approx. $550K now).

Think I am likely to do meaningfully better and, if so, any recommendations on where to start? :sharebeer
Unfortunately with this week's rates you're probably best where you're at now.

That said, here are the best places to look for rates without actually applying:
-Lender Fi
-Loan Depot (will have to talk to a person, but can get a rate without applying)
-Costco, if you're a member
-Other standard websites: bankrate, zillow, etc.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback. I did wind up speaking with Rocket/Quicken and Loan Depot, as well as doing some other online investigation. It seems like maaaybe I could get to 2.625% without any/much in the way of points/fees, but unlikely any better than that, and the 1/8th of a point (potentially) doesn't seem worth the work.
"I'm spending a year dead for tax reasons." - Hotblack Desiato
LiveMusic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LiveMusic »

I am currently in the underwriting stage with Better. However, I noticed today that the "Estimated total Payoffs and Payments" on my LE went up by about 500$.(So its higher than the loan amount by 500$ now). None of the numbers from Sections A through J, nor the loan amount has changed, so I am a bit perplexed why this happened.Could someone help me understand.

Thanks in advance.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

HockeyFan99 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:32 pm and the 1/8th of a point (potentially) doesn't seem worth the work.
Some of us here would disagree (me included). But yeah, that's a totally personal call!
MBster
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MBster »

LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm I am currently in the underwriting stage with Better. However, I noticed today that the "Estimated total Payoffs and Payments" on my LE went up by about 500$.(So its higher than the loan amount by 500$ now). None of the numbers from Sections A through J, nor the loan amount has changed, so I am a bit perplexed why this happened.Could someone help me understand.

Thanks in advance.
They may have had to delay their originally anticipated settlement date thus incurring some additional interest. Another explanation could be that the current lender has some additional administrative costs associated with putting together and processing the payoff. I know both of these applied to me (just signed/closed with Better yesterday).
randdusing
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by randdusing »

I have a mortgage with a current balance of ~$95k at 4.0%. With my current payment schedule, the 30 year loan will be paid off after 24 years total. I've been making payments for 3 years, thus 21 years to go.

I can refinance to ~2.625% at 15 years for $3,500 (D) in closing costs rolled into the loan. This seems expensive, but my payment will be the same as what I was already (over)paying, and I'll end the loan 6 years earlier (21 minus 15). Assuming I have no plans to sell the property, does this refinance make sense?
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

MBster wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:29 am
LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm I am currently in the underwriting stage with Better. However, I noticed today that the "Estimated total Payoffs and Payments" on my LE went up by about 500$.(So its higher than the loan amount by 500$ now). None of the numbers from Sections A through J, nor the loan amount has changed, so I am a bit perplexed why this happened.Could someone help me understand.

Thanks in advance.
They may have had to delay their originally anticipated settlement date thus incurring some additional interest. Another explanation could be that the current lender has some additional administrative costs associated with putting together and processing the payoff. I know both of these applied to me (just signed/closed with Better yesterday).
Doesn't hurt to ask them to wave it or give you more credit to cover the $500 or you wont sign?
If you do get it waved or credited report back so folks know to ask please.
Last edited by 2quiker on Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

randdusing wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:05 am I have a mortgage with a current balance of ~$95k at 4.0%. With my current payment schedule, the 30 year loan will be paid off after 24 years total. I've been making payments for 3 years, thus 21 years to go.

I can refinance to ~2.625% at 15 years for $3,500 (D) in closing costs rolled into the loan. This seems expensive, but my payment will be the same as what I was already (over)paying, and I'll end the loan 6 years earlier (21 minus 15). Assuming I have no plans to sell the property, does this refinance make sense?
Have you shopped around at credit unions? One of the credit unions in my state offers 2.5% for 15 years at $1,200 (they have a flat fee for the refi).

If that is truly the best you are able to find, ask the lender for 2.875% or even 3% to cover all the closing costs.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm I am currently in the underwriting stage with Better. However, I noticed today that the "Estimated total Payoffs and Payments" on my LE went up by about 500$.(So its higher than the loan amount by 500$ now). None of the numbers from Sections A through J, nor the loan amount has changed, so I am a bit perplexed why this happened.Could someone help me understand.

Thanks in advance.
You owe interest from now until the loan is paid off at your existing lender. What you're describing sounds like Better just got an updated payoff statement from your current lender with the projected interest that you'll owe for the time between your last payment to your current servicer and Better wiring the the money.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

drk wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:12 pm
LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm I am currently in the underwriting stage with Better. However, I noticed today that the "Estimated total Payoffs and Payments" on my LE went up by about 500$.(So its higher than the loan amount by 500$ now). None of the numbers from Sections A through J, nor the loan amount has changed, so I am a bit perplexed why this happened.Could someone help me understand.

Thanks in advance.
You owe interest from now until the loan is paid off at your existing lender. What you're describing sounds like Better just got an updated payoff statement from your current lender with the projected interest that you'll owe for the time between your last payment to your current servicer and Better wiring the the money.
The old lender may also charge fees to close out the mortgage. People in the thread have reported that before. Note that this is from the existing/old lender, not the new one.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:17 pm The old lender may also charge fees to close out the mortgage. People in the thread have reported that before. Note that this is from the existing/old lender, not the new one.
That's true. My last lender got me for $205 in fees on the way out. :oops:
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:17 pm
drk wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:12 pm
LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm I am currently in the underwriting stage with Better. However, I noticed today that the "Estimated total Payoffs and Payments" on my LE went up by about 500$.(So its higher than the loan amount by 500$ now). None of the numbers from Sections A through J, nor the loan amount has changed, so I am a bit perplexed why this happened.Could someone help me understand.

Thanks in advance.
You owe interest from now until the loan is paid off at your existing lender. What you're describing sounds like Better just got an updated payoff statement from your current lender with the projected interest that you'll owe for the time between your last payment to your current servicer and Better wiring the the money.
The old lender may also charge fees to close out the mortgage. People in the thread have reported that before. Note that this is from the existing/old lender, not the new one.
Specifically the recording fee for the reconveyance will be included in the old lender's payoff amount (principal + outstanding interest + recording fee).
giddyup969
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by giddyup969 »

Just passing along some recent experience

Better.com was refusing to either waive the appraisal or credit for the cost. Appraisal was waived by my current lender when I refinanced last year.
Loan Depot waived the appraisal requirement and when I told better.com that I would like to cancel my application, they then wanted to give the lender credit.
Going ahead with loan Depot as it shouldn't take me the step of cancellation for them to pay attention

Locked in 2% 15 year with 67LTV with about $1500 in A+B+C+E.
corgilady2011
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Location: Texas

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by corgilady2011 »

Purchased my property here in TX, used lenderfi for 3% 510K balance, appraised value of property $770K back in July

Locked in my rate last week with Lenderfi again, they waived appraisal for 2.5% 30 yr for my roughly $506K balance, $800 out of pocket cost rolled into loan while removing our escrow acct.

~3 year payback for that approximately, but given that I am 32 years old and this is a 25+ year home for us, feel good with our decision.
Bmonaye
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bmonaye »

I have a minor dilemma that may be some of you can provide some direction on.

I’ve got two disclosures from separate loan companies. My intentions are to refi my high balance conforming loan and include a portion of my heloc loan while keeping the balance under the conforming limit of $822k (I’m in the Bay Area, higher ceiling for conforming loans).

My current mortgage is $795k at 3.625% with a heloc loan of $49k.
Home Value of $1,115,000.

Disclosure #1 Mutual of Omaha
Loan estimate includes all the above mentioned at interest rate of 2.5% with a closing costs of $3600. But I just noticed the loan estimate in the disclosure does not have the rate lock checked. So essentially the refi will be
795k + 23,400(heloc) + 3600 (closing costs) = 822k

Only problem I have with this is the disclosure does not have rate locked. My loan agent says it’s not a problem, and that he will send me an updated disclosure, hopefully by tomorrow, with the rate lock checked off. But I feel like I’m being bated and switched.

Disclosure #2 ICG Group
Refi of only my first mortgage of $795k at 2.5% RATE LOCKED. But higher closing costs at $4800 and not including any of my heloc.


I don’t think rates will be going any lower, in fact as many of you know they’re in an upward trend. I shopped loan estimates around and these were the best I was able to negotiate. Am I being bated and switched with the first one? Should I pay more and go with the other one? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

Bmonaye wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:15 pm I have a minor dilemma that may be some of you can provide some direction on.

I’ve got two disclosures from separate loan companies. My intentions are to refi my high balance conforming loan and include a portion of my heloc loan while keeping the balance under the conforming limit of $822k (I’m in the Bay Area, higher ceiling for conforming loans).

My current mortgage is $795k at 3.625% with a heloc loan of $49k.
Home Value of $1,115,000.

Disclosure #1 Mutual of Omaha
Loan estimate includes all the above mentioned at interest rate of 2.5% with a closing costs of $3600. But I just noticed the loan estimate in the disclosure does not have the rate lock checked. So essentially the refi will be
795k + 23,400(heloc) + 3600 (closing costs) = 822k

Only problem I have with this is the disclosure does not have rate locked. My loan agent says it’s not a problem, and that he will send me an updated disclosure, hopefully by tomorrow, with the rate lock checked off. But I feel like I’m being bated and switched.

Disclosure #2 ICG Group
Refi of only my first mortgage of $795k at 2.5% RATE LOCKED. But higher closing costs at $4800 and not including any of my heloc.


I don’t think rates will be going any lower, in fact as many of you know they’re in an upward trend. I shopped loan estimates around and these were the best I was able to negotiate. Am I being bated and switched with the first one? Should I pay more and go with the other one? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
I highly doubt you are being bait-and-switched, especially from a reputable company. What are you concerned about? If you are ready to lock the rate, why not do it today?

Do those loan fees *include* pre-paids, or just loan origination/recording fees?
Bmonaye
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bmonaye »

truenyer wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:19 pm
I highly doubt you are being bait-and-switched, especially from a reputable company. What are you concerned about? If you are ready to lock the rate, why not do it today?

Do those loan fees *include* pre-paids, or just loan origination/recording fees?
I want it rate locked. My dilemma is that it’s not locked. I thought it was, but by double checking disclosure # 1 the rate was never locked. My loan agent says not to worry about it and that he sending updated disclosures with the rate locked. I hope he does. The disclosure #2 has the rate locked but will not include any of my heloc loan on the refi.


As for fees they are

Disclosure 1
A+B+C= 650+900+1675 = $3225

Disclosure 2
A+B+C =1850+720+1400 = $3970
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

Bmonaye wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 pm
truenyer wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:19 pm
I highly doubt you are being bait-and-switched, especially from a reputable company. What are you concerned about? If you are ready to lock the rate, why not do it today?

Do those loan fees *include* pre-paids, or just loan origination/recording fees?
I want it rate locked. My dilemma is that it’s not locked. I thought it was, but by double checking disclosure # 1 the rate was never locked. My loan agent says not to worry about it and that he sending updated disclosures with the rate locked. I hope he does. The disclosure #2 has the rate locked but will not include any of my heloc loan on the refi.


As for fees they are

Disclosure 1
A+B+C= 650+900+1675 = $3225

Disclosure 2
A+B+C =1850+720+1400 = $3970
I'm guessing no lender credits given? 2.5% seems to be at the low end of what's available now, so you might want to ask what they can give you with now points.

That said, I still don't think you are being bait-and-switched. Mutual of Omaha is a reputable lender.
Jb526
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jb526 »

Question here that many will probably think of as having an obvious answer, but I'm just starting out in all of this and want to make sure that I understand before proceeding further.

When the borrower takes Lender No. 1's LE and presents it to Lender No. 2, and if Lender No. 2 is able to beat the offer of Lender No. 1, does Lender No. 2 provide that better offer to the borrower by way of another updated LE? And then the borrower can then take that updated LE from Lender No. 2 and present it to Lender No. 3, and so on?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Jb526 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:19 pm Question here that many will probably think of as having an obvious answer, but I'm just starting out in all of this and want to make sure that I understand before proceeding further.

When the borrower takes Lender No. 1's LE and presents it to Lender No. 2, and if Lender No. 2 is able to beat the offer of Lender No. 1, does Lender No. 2 provide that better offer to the borrower by way of another updated LE? And then the borrower can then take that updated LE from Lender No. 2 and present it to Lender No. 3, and so on?
Yes, you understand correctly.

However, keep in mind that legally, they only have to drop for delivery an LE within 3 days. And if they choose to do that by mail (ahem, looking at you Quicken/Rocket), it just has to be postmarked within those 3 days. Few of the lenders Bogleheads have discussed with would operate this way though.

Thus, you may find that by the time Lender 2 gives you an updated LE, Lender 3 would complain it’s too old for them to do anything with it.
dead4life
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dead4life »

I have a question about the finalizing of my mortgage

I have a refinance with IM in progress. 2.375%, 30 year term, No Cost
This is my timeline

11/24 Rate Locked for 30days and LE signed. Documents submitted.
12/9 More verification documents submitted
12/29 Underwriter conditionally approved and we signed Preliminary Closing Disclosure. Estimated closing 1/2, with being estimated funding 1/7.
12/31 Processor got back to me and said she is clearing internal conditions asked of them from underwriter, but need nothing further from me.
1/13 No updates since... So I emailed them and no response yet.

With rates advertised going up on IM's website to 2.625%. Am I at risk of losing my rate because the refinance is taking a long time? My Preliminary Closing Disclosure did show 2.375% rate, but stated terms and costs are not final until closing. Also why would it take so long after "conditional approval"

Thanks.
Last edited by dead4life on Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
loco00
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by loco00 »

Hello! I'm not refi'ing but getting a mortgage so I thought I'd ask which seemed best:

30 day lock, 2.875% with closing credit of 0.203% ($2793 credit to my costs)
30 day lock, 2.75%, with cost of 0.152% ($2092 in cost for that rate)

45 day lock, 2.875% with a cost of 0.047% ($647 in cost for that rate)
45 day lock, 2.75% with cost of 0.402% ($5532 in cost for that rate)

I'm getting a jumbo loan, around $1.3M

We plan on living there 5+ year. This is a conventional 30 yr fixed loan. We don't qualify for ARMS because we are short of 25% down payment (most banks/lenders seem to require).

Any lender/bank rec would be appreciated too (maybe loandepot?). Thank you.
revsk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by revsk »

dead4life wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:39 pm I have a question about the finalizing of my mortgage

I have a refinance with IM in progress. 2.375%, 30 year term, No Cost
This is my timeline

11/24 Rate Locked for 30days and LE signed. Documents submitted.
12/9 More verification documents submitted
12/29 Underwriter conditionally approved and we signed Preliminary Closing Disclosure. Estimated closing 1/2, with being estimated funding 1/7.
12/31 Processor got back to me and said she is clearing internal conditions asked of them from underwriter, but need nothing further from me.
1/13 No updates since... So I emailed them and no response yet.

With rates advertised going up on IM's website to 2.625%. Am I at risk of losing my rate because the refinance is taking a long time? My Preliminary Closing Disclosure did show 2.375% rate, but stated terms and costs are not final until closing. Also why would it take so long after "conditional approval"

Thanks.
Following - Locked with IM as well. Waiting for underwriter conditional approval. It seems from the negative reviews of IM on various sites that this is not an isolated incident. I'd continue to wait and keep calling your original contact who helped you start the loan. Be the squeaky wheel.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

loco00 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:19 pm Hello! I'm not refi'ing but getting a mortgage so I thought I'd ask which seemed best:

30 day lock, 2.875% with closing credit of 0.203% ($2793 credit to my costs)
30 day lock, 2.75%, with cost of 0.152% ($2092 in cost for that rate)

45 day lock, 2.875% with a cost of 0.047% ($647 in cost for that rate)
45 day lock, 2.75% with cost of 0.402% ($5532 in cost for that rate)

I'm getting a jumbo loan, around $1.3M

We plan on living there 5+ year. This is a conventional 30 yr fixed loan. We don't qualify for ARMS because we are short of 25% down payment (most banks/lenders seem to require).

Any lender/bank rec would be appreciated too (maybe loandepot?). Thank you.
As I was reading through, I was totally “2.875%!” Then I got to $1.3M. With a nearly $5k swing in cost for 2.75%, how long would it take the interest savings to reach $5k?
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