Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

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NewBee_101
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:46 pm

Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by NewBee_101 »

Hello,
I am new to this forum.
Sorry, if this question is not in the right section.

I have a relative with stage 4 cancer, who may potentially require full time care, personal care.
He is 70 yrs old, has Medicare insurance, and their (his and his wife's) combined household savings are approx. few hundreds thousands.
Their family income is 42 000 annually. We are in California. They own no properties.

My questions are about the possible payments for his future care:
- In case if he will be admitted to a nursing home, Is he qualified to pay for full time stay there just with his medicare insurance?
Or will he be require to pay a full price ($100 to $185++ a day) for such services?
(because he is not low income and because of their savings)

- Would buying Long Term Care insurance help to cover some of his possible caregiving related payments?
(If we buy it now; So, that his savings won't be draining potentially)

Any suggestions / info would be very helpful,
Freetime76
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by Freetime76 »

Medicare should pay for up to 100 days in a skilled nursing facility.
I’m not sure is a person can get LTC insurance with a stage 4 diagnosis.
Kind thoughts to you and your relative...should it be needed: Medicare also covers hospice for a few months: https://www.medicare.gov/what-medicare- ... pice-works

At home health services also can be covered sometimes by Medicare. It’s a morass of rules, and we only learned from being in it for family. https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/home-health-services
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cheese_breath
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by cheese_breath »

Talk to an elder law attorney. Depending on how the family's finances are structured (s)he might be able to identify ways to shield some from Medicaid which would mean the relative might be able to go on Medicaid without paying down the whole estate.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by ResearchMed »

As suggested by cheese_breath, do speak with an elder care attorney.

But also check with any state or local agencies ("Elder Services" or such).
There may be programs that are not Federal, to provide a variety of services, such as some in home care or other services.
They'll explain any eligibility requirements, which may be different from what Federal programs require.

States, and even locales within a state, can have quite different programs available.

Good luck to all.

RM
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Sgal8713
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by Sgal8713 »

Skilled nursing and long term care (nursing home) are 2 different things with vastly different rules. Medicare pays for skilled nursing, but not nursing home.

I would also talk with the oncology office for information on services as well. They commonly have a social worker or case manager than can provide resources. They also commonly have palliative care services which can provide additional resources and help the transition to hospice (which Medicare generously covers) if and when that time comes.

Agree with Elder Care lawyer as well.

Also best wishes to you and your family in the trying time. Cancer sucks.
Katietsu
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by Katietsu »

Freetime76 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm Medicare should pay for up to 100 days in a skilled nursing facility.
I’m not sure is a person can get LTC insurance with a stage 4 diagnosis.
Kind thoughts to you and your relative...should it be needed: Medicare also covers hospice for a few months: https://www.medicare.gov/what-medicare- ... pice-works

At home health services also can be covered sometimes by Medicare. It’s a morass of rules, and we only learned from being in it for family. https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/home-health-services
I will be more blunt, I can not imagine any way a person with stage 4 cancer could get LTC insurance.

As to what Medicare will pay for, it depends. It depends as to whether they have traditional or a medicare advantage plan. It depends on the medicare supplement policy if there is one. In some cases, it can depend on whether a qualified hospitalization preceded the move to a nursing facility. And it depends on the care and reason for it. I really wish it was not so complicated. Do they have a desired nursing facility selected in case needed? If so, they probably have a finance person that could help with information even if there was not an immediate need. Others have suggested the elder care attorney.

I think your numbers are off for CA for nursing home care. I do not know if there are any low cost areas with $100/day for assisted living. But I can not imagine $100/day for nursing home level care.

I do not mean to be insensitive. I obviously know nothing about the cancer diagnosis or prognosis. But planning for a six month stay for a terminally ill cancer patient will look very different than for a 10 year stay for a dementia patient.

Surprisingly, medicare only pays for about a week of inpatient hospice. I think most of us are shocked to find that out. Speaking with hospice before it is needed, can be helpful. It can be a lot easier to absorb the information when not in crisis mode.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by JoeRetire »

NewBee_101 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:05 pm - Would buying Long Term Care insurance help to cover some of his possible caregiving related payments?
(If we buy it now; So, that his savings won't be draining potentially)
He won't be able to purchase LTCi now.
Medicare will cover some. His assets will cover some. Then Medicaid will cover the rest, once most of the assets are depleted.
This might help: https://www.elderlawanswers.com/spendin ... caid-12003

As with most insurance, the time to purchase LTCi is before the need exists. No free lunches.

Talk with Hospice and see if they will get involved at this point, or if he must wait until later on. They have lots of services they can recommend.
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Topic Author
NewBee_101
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by NewBee_101 »

Thanks to everyone for all the info!
I researched about up to 100 days that pay for SNF. (Sometimes, they pay for day 1 - 20, then day 21 - 40 around $180 a day or so, then day 41 - 100 - free)

But yes this is a temporary placement (if needed)
In links provided above there some (non FT) nurse or caregiving services available.

My last question - Just wondering if elderly care attorney can advice the better Medicare Advantage Plan that can help paying some of the care giving or SNF services?
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cheese_breath
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by cheese_breath »

NewBee_101 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:16 pm Thanks to everyone for all the info!
I researched about up to 100 days that pay for SNF. (Sometimes, they pay for day 1 - 20, then day 21 - 40 around $180 a day or so, then day 41 - 100 - free)

But yes this is a temporary placement (if needed)
In links provided above there some (non FT) nurse or caregiving services available.

My last question - Just wondering if elderly care attorney can advice the better Medicare Advantage Plan that can help paying some of the care giving or SNF services?
Pay special attention to the words "up to". You're not guaranteed 100 days. It's conditioned upon the need, and Medicare has rules for determining if you need it. I have no idea what their rules might be for stage 4 cancer.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
Katietsu
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by Katietsu »

NewBee_101 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:16 pm Thanks to everyone for all the info!
I researched about up to 100 days that pay for SNF. (Sometimes, they pay for day 1 - 20, then day 21 - 40 around $180 a day or so, then day 41 - 100 - free)

But yes this is a temporary placement (if needed)
In links provided above there some (non FT) nurse or caregiving services available.

My last question - Just wondering if elderly care attorney can advice the better Medicare Advantage Plan that can help paying some of the care giving or SNF services?
Are they currently on original medicare or a medicare advantage plan? If original medicare, do they have a supplement? Can they make changes in the medicare advantage plan or buy a supplement now? In the states that I have experience with, the would not be able to right now except under a limited number of special circumstances. However, I understand that some states require insurance companies to provide more options.

You might try contacting the local Area Agency on Aging. The gentleman likely has too many assets to qualify for any of their programs aimed at low income elderly. But, they still may be able to give you information or direct you were to go. Maybe ask if there is a SHIP counselor who advises on medicare choices. Ask if they have a list of companies that provide the type of services that might be needed. It really depends on the office as to whether they will be mildly helpful or invaluable.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by cheese_breath »

Katietsu wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:08 pm
NewBee_101 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:16 pm Thanks to everyone for all the info!
I researched about up to 100 days that pay for SNF. (Sometimes, they pay for day 1 - 20, then day 21 - 40 around $180 a day or so, then day 41 - 100 - free)

But yes this is a temporary placement (if needed)
In links provided above there some (non FT) nurse or caregiving services available.

My last question - Just wondering if elderly care attorney can advice the better Medicare Advantage Plan that can help paying some of the care giving or SNF services?
... Maybe ask if there is a SHIP counselor who advises on medicare choices...
Here's the SHIP website.
https://www.shiptacenter.org/
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
Katietsu
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Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by Katietsu »

cheese_breath wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:48 pm Here's the SHIP website.
https://www.shiptacenter.org/
Thanks for posting this. I did not realize there was a national site for people to get information.
Topic Author
NewBee_101
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Funds to provide care for elderly terminally sick relative

Post by NewBee_101 »

cheese_breath wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:48 pm
Katietsu wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:08 pm
NewBee_101 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:16 pm Thanks to everyone for all the info!
I researched about up to 100 days that pay for SNF. (Sometimes, they pay for day 1 - 20, then day 21 - 40 around $180 a day or so, then day 41 - 100 - free)

But yes this is a temporary placement (if needed)
In links provided above there some (non FT) nurse or caregiving services available.

My last question - Just wondering if elderly care attorney can advice the better Medicare Advantage Plan that can help paying some of the care giving or SNF services?
... Maybe ask if there is a SHIP counselor who advises on medicare choices...
Here's the SHIP website.
https://www.shiptacenter.org/
Thank you!
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