Subaru Outback engine stop/start

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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

The old Honda CR-Z hybrid was available with an excellent 6 speed manual transmission. This had the auto stop, start feature. I don't remember exactly, but I think if you stop and put the shifter in neutral, it shuts the car off. Put the shifter in 1st and it starts again. This is similar to the first generation Crosstrek hybrid with only a small battery in the spare tire well, good for 20-ish miles of drive. It's mostly used to boost power when needed and to capture braking power with regeneration of the battery. It's a good tuner car. I've seen K series swaps in to it. I wish the car was still manufactured, but like the prior CR-X, a 2 seater hot hatch is pretty limited in market acceptance.
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Nowizard
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Nowizard »

Can't speak for the Outback, but a 2019 Forester had the permanent turn-off located near the buttons controlling the moon roof. It remained off. It took awhile to locate it, but the stop/start was annoying, and it started up rather roughly which suggested an eventual issue might occur with the starter.

Tim
Audioarc
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Audioarc »

On the 2021 it’s easy to press the button to turn it off when you start the car.
adamthesmythe
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by adamthesmythe »

I have driven both automatic and manual transmission cars in Europe that had this feature. After a short period I became accustomed to (and not annoyed by) this feature.

Considerably more annoying was continually confusing the windshield wipers and turn signal (in the UK).

Y'all are allowed to become outraged by whatever you choose.

My new car doesn't have this although I don't think I would be disturbed if it did.
michaelingp
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by michaelingp »

For Forester, at least, there is an after-market device for $100 that preserves the setting after turning off the car. In other words, if you turn off the "feature" with the button below the dash (on a Forester anyway), it will be off the next time you start the car. It's a clever implementation, in that it attaches to the computer under the driver's seat, but doesn't really modify the car in any way. You can remove it and the car goes back to its normal behavior. I was going to buy it, but my wife actually likes the feature, and it's not that big a deal to turn it off manually every time you start the car, or after the first time it stalls, if you forget.

There's a lot of people who hate the feature, many fearing that if the car doesn't restart it could put them in a dangerous situation, essentially dead in the water in the middle of an intersection.

Interestingly, the car keeps track of how much gas you save, and so far in six months I doubt we've saved $1.
Soobs
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Soobs »

Stop/Start is best suited on hybrid vehicles and on hybrids it works incredibly well. It stops & starts the engine in a completely different way than regular gas cars with this system. On regular vehicles I am concerned that it's just a silly feature-sell that is ultimately causing excessive wear, specifically to the camshaft and starter. If you don't keep vehicles beyond 100k miles this may not even matter to you, but I tend to drive vehicles well over 200k miles. I can assure you that any fuel cost saved from this feature will be easily lost if you're replacing a camshaft or even a starter. At best I would call this feature an emissions reduction system. It's not saving you anything on gas that you won't have to spend on something else with the vehicle for the sake of having this system.

As an example, consider the battery requirements for a regular vehicle without this feature and one with it. On my 2017 Highlander with Stop/Start the dealer battery is a Japanese imported EFB (Enhanced Flooded Cell Battery) and they charge $300 + labor. Another dealer the next town over charges $400 for the same battery. Either way they will not put in the less expensive Toyota TrueStart battery. Your best bet to save a few bucks is to replace it with an AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery yourself ($179-$229), but that's still a premium only required due to the power requirements and wear of stop/start. Had this been a 2016 Highlander (the year before Stop/Start) you could still slap in a $70-$90 Costco or Walmart battery.

In any event, if you really want to save gas and reduce emissions buy a hybrid or EV. My next vehicle will absolutely be one of the two.
Last edited by Soobs on Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
palanzo
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by palanzo »

smalliebigs wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:32 pm I am an engineer working in the automotive industry. I am on the engine combustion side, not on electrical. However, I think I can give some context regarding the engine stop/start.

By federal regulations, this stop/start functionality cannot be permanently turned off.

With regards to the wear, the systems are designed to be robust enough to tolerate a long term usage with stop/starts. It might not seem like much, but the stop/start system is design to help us tackle the emissions and CO2 output during federal drive cycle tests. Every bit helps.
Scotty Kilmer disagrees with you. There have been problems on various models due to this feature that the owner ends up paying for.
Soobs
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Soobs »

smalliebigs wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:32 pm I am an engineer working in the automotive industry. I am on the engine combustion side, not on electrical. However, I think I can give some context regarding the engine stop/start.

By federal regulations, this stop/start functionality cannot be permanently turned off.

With regards to the wear, the systems are designed to be robust enough to tolerate a long term usage with stop/starts. It might not seem like much, but the stop/start system is design to help us tackle the emissions and CO2 output during federal drive cycle tests. Every bit helps.
Can you define "longterm usage?" If it's anything like the "lifetime" transmission/gear box/coolant/etc fluids manufacturers claim for the sake of deceptively reducing cost of ownership data then yeaaaaah...
palanzo
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by palanzo »

Soobs wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 pm
smalliebigs wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:32 pm I am an engineer working in the automotive industry. I am on the engine combustion side, not on electrical. However, I think I can give some context regarding the engine stop/start.

By federal regulations, this stop/start functionality cannot be permanently turned off.

With regards to the wear, the systems are designed to be robust enough to tolerate a long term usage with stop/starts. It might not seem like much, but the stop/start system is design to help us tackle the emissions and CO2 output during federal drive cycle tests. Every bit helps.
Can you define "longterm usage?" If it's anything like the "lifetime" transmission/gear box/coolant/etc fluids manufacturers claim for the sake of deceptively reducing cost of ownership data then yeaaaaah...
That's exactly what Scotty Kilmer says. Look at his YouTube videos. It's for the lifetime of the manufacturer's warranty period.
lazydavid
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by lazydavid »

palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:36 pm Scotty Kilmer disagrees with you. There have been problems on various models due to this feature that the owner ends up paying for.
Scotty Kilmer disagrees with everyone (including himself) about everything. That's his schtick.
Carguy85
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Carguy85 »

Soobs wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 pm Can you define "longterm usage?" If it's anything like the "lifetime" transmission/gear box/coolant/etc fluids manufacturers claim for the sake of deceptively reducing cost of ownership data then yeaaaaah...
Exactly... unless if it’s a synergy type drive type setup I 100% don’t buy the hype... way too many downfalls trying to do this with a “traditional” powertrain setup. Guaranteed the owner will never see any savings after figuring ALL costs. Btw Scotty seems he is always drunk. My buddy and I refer to him as Scotch drinkin Scotty.
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msi
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by msi »

palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:36 pm
smalliebigs wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:32 pm I am an engineer working in the automotive industry. I am on the engine combustion side, not on electrical. However, I think I can give some context regarding the engine stop/start.

By federal regulations, this stop/start functionality cannot be permanently turned off.

With regards to the wear, the systems are designed to be robust enough to tolerate a long term usage with stop/starts. It might not seem like much, but the stop/start system is design to help us tackle the emissions and CO2 output during federal drive cycle tests. Every bit helps.
Scotty Kilmer disagrees with you. There have been problems on various models due to this feature that the owner ends up paying for.
Did he provide any evidence to substantiate that? What models?
KillerPortfolio
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by KillerPortfolio »

I have this car, you can bypass it by having a defroster on or by being light on the brake. If you press the brake just enough to keep the car still it won't auto stop.
crefwatch
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by crefwatch »

Over the years, we've had a lot of science grow to intermediate our life experiences. Over great opposition from industry and individuals, all cars now have manually-applied seatbelts. We have to go outside our bar to smoke a cigarette. Our kitchens and bathrooms have GFCI outlets that have occasional false trips. Baby cribs and strollers are manufactured more expensively, but far fewer babies die from them. An angry libertarian calls all of this "the nanny state." But the reduction in deaths is real. And as a generation passes, compliance becomes normal behavior.

Are you old enough to remember when there were no seatbelts in cars? Do you remember when opponents said seatbelts would trap you in a burning car? After 20 years of firm statistics on total elimination of "ejection" injuries and deaths, that libertarian canard died a natural death. Other people swore that they always used their new seat belts, but they didn't like being ordered to do so. But a compliance habit has to be developed. Just as retirement plan participation increases vastly when it is the default payroll choice, seat belt usage became natural with enforced compliance. I remember independent young men, Mustang and hot-rod lovers, who had been in the Army during the 70's and 80's. They had developed a seat belt habit in Basic Training, and could not imagine riding without a seat belt anymore.

Because I grew up in Manhattan, I have a different view of automobiles than do most Americans. I see them more as a sort of refrigerator, rather than as a symbol of freedom, or perhaps male potency. I'm also on my second Prius, but in fairness, they really are designed for engine shutoff from the ground up.

I've bought plenty of universal joints and 12-volt batteries in my car-owning life. But how many starter motors have you bought? How many people (I don't mean "my nanny's sister's brother in law, on Facebook") do you know who ever bought a starter motor?
palanzo
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by palanzo »

crefwatch wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:22 am Over the years, we've had a lot of science grow to intermediate our life experiences. Over great opposition from industry and individuals, all cars now have manually-applied seatbelts. We have to go outside our bar to smoke a cigarette. Our kitchens and bathrooms have GFCI outlets that have occasional false trips. Baby cribs and strollers are manufactured more expensively, but far fewer babies die from them. An angry libertarian calls all of this "the nanny state." But the reduction in deaths is real. And as a generation passes, compliance becomes normal behavior.

Are you old enough to remember when there were no seatbelts in cars? Do you remember when opponents said seatbelts would trap you in a burning car? After 20 years of firm statistics on total elimination of "ejection" injuries and deaths, that libertarian canard died a natural death. Other people swore that they always used their new seat belts, but they didn't like being ordered to do so. But a compliance habit has to be developed. Just as retirement plan participation increases vastly when it is the default payroll choice, seat belt usage became natural with enforced compliance. I remember independent young men, Mustang and hot-rod lovers, who had been in the Army during the 70's and 80's. They had developed a seat belt habit in Basic Training, and could not imagine riding without a seat belt anymore.

Because I grew up in Manhattan, I have a different view of automobiles than do most Americans. I see them more as a sort of refrigerator, rather than as a symbol of freedom, or perhaps male potency. I'm also on my second Prius, but in fairness, they really are designed for engine shutoff from the ground up.

I've bought plenty of universal joints and 12-volt batteries in my car-owning life. But how many starter motors have you bought? How many people (I don't mean "my nanny's sister's brother in law, on Facebook") do you know who ever bought a starter motor?
Anyone with a BMW!! Anyone with a start stop system. Go watch the Scotty Kilmer video on this topic.
Carguy85
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Carguy85 »

Crefwatch,

You will indeed never have to buy a “starter motor”. The Prius is an excellent piece of machinery! We have wildly differing views on cars... I won’t go on vacation without at least a rental car at the destination if not forgetting flying all together and road tripping it (preferred). Of course we grew up in wildly different places.
illumination
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by illumination »

I absolutely hate the start/stop feature, I went out of my way on making sure the Lexus I got didn't have it. I also can't stand the ones you have to disable every time you start the car, at least give the owner the option to turn it off for good. Would make everyone happy.

It's just common sense it will wear things out like the starter quicker. If you rolled your electric windows up and down twenty times every trip, that would also wear those out way quicker than if it was just once per trip. I don't care how well engineered the "new" starters are. Also, starting and stoping your car is a strain on the battery and alternator. Most engine wear occurs at start up, you lose oil pressure at every stop.

The Mercedes I borrowed had it, car felt like it needed a new transmission. Also, the AC starts blowing warm air at the stop light. This is an $85k luxury vehicle, all to save a few bucks a month in gas. So silly.
enjoyinglife
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by enjoyinglife »

I have this on my '19 Forrester and HATE it as it's very rough and jarring when it operates. I was also concerned he if I had to pull away quickly from a standing stop it would slow me down.

As someone mentioned above the following company makes a plug in fix. It's $100 & if you use coupon code "Gmtrucks" it's $85. I installed it a couple of weeks age (easy - took 10-15 minutes) & it works great.

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/collections/subaru
Carguy85
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Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by Carguy85 »

I believe Subaru uses an electric oil pump in the cvt as an attempt to make auto start takeoffs smoother...not really sure who else does...ahhh the needless trickery just to get a good rating on part of an emissions test that doesn’t really translate well to any considerable real world good. Engineers have to feed their families too I suppose :D
tjwolf
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Subaru Outback engine stop/start

Post by tjwolf »

U-Tube has several systems listed to cure thus "problem", such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG_-Ibvrdn4
Tom
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