[Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

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harikaried
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Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by harikaried »

Vanguard has updated VTI holdings page as of end of August showing Tesla as the 8th largest at 1.10% weighting out of 25.20% of top 10:
Image

https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profi ... d-holdings

Although those values seem to be rounded to the tenth vs hundredth on https://advisors.vanguard.com/investmen ... #portfolio
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harikaried
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Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by harikaried »

Looks like S&P 500 will be adding TSLA after all although uncertain if it will be added in one go or two separate batches, which I suppose highlights this as a significant index change:
Tesla Inc.(NASD:TSLA) will be added to the S&P 500 effective prior to the open of trading on Monday, December 21 to coincide with the December quarterly rebalance. Due to the large size of the addition, S&P Dow Jones Indices is seeking feedback through a consultation to the investment community to determine if Tesla should be added all at once on the rebalance effective date or in two separate tranches ending on the rebalance effective date.
https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/docum ... onsult.pdf

For reference, compared to when this thread started in July with Tesla at US #23 with $200B market cap, it's now #10 with $387B and ~12th weighting in VTI with 0.9%. And apparently after hours likes the news so far with +14% for $441B market cap…
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Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by CardinalRule »

harikaried wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:51 pm Looks like S&P 500 will be adding TSLA after all although uncertain if it will be added in one go or two separate batches, which I suppose highlights this as a significant index change:
Tesla Inc.(NASD:TSLA) will be added to the S&P 500 effective prior to the open of trading on Monday, December 21 to coincide with the December quarterly rebalance. Due to the large size of the addition, S&P Dow Jones Indices is seeking feedback through a consultation to the investment community to determine if Tesla should be added all at once on the rebalance effective date or in two separate tranches ending on the rebalance effective date.
https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/docum ... onsult.pdf

For reference, compared to when this thread started in July with Tesla at US #23 with $200B market cap, it's now #10 with $387B and ~12th weighting in VTI with 0.9%. And apparently after hours likes the news so far with +14% for $441B market cap…
S&P must really have to lock down the confidentiality and security of these inclusion decisions, prior to them being announced. Such valuable, market-moving, inside information.
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JoMoney
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Tesla IS getting added to the S&P

Post by JoMoney »

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

It seems (a bit to my own consternation :annoyed ) that the S&P announced Tesla is to be added to the S&P 500 in the December quarterly rebalance. There was a bit of hubbub earlier this year when they were not added even after having met the methodologies eligibility requirements.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-to ... 47773.html
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Re: Tesla IS getting added to the S&P

Post by rkhusky »

Good. That will remove some distortion from the Extended Market Index. Maybe Zoom will be next.
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Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged JoMoney's thread into the on-going discussion.
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columbia
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by columbia »

As a Vanguard 500 owner, this pleases me.

It also pleases me that I won't ever own all of the "hot" companies, that flame out before it even being a possibility.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by TheoLeo »

When exactly will they add Tesla to the index? December 21 st? And do funds have to wait until then before they start buying?

Interesting snippet from a bloomberg article:
" The index funds have the advantage of free-riding, but the disadvantage of being predictable. Stocks should go up when they join an index. That's the price that the index funds pay to active traders for picking stocks. Stock picking is valuable; active investors pay for it in fees, while passive investors pay for it in, you know, front-running or whatever."
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by alex_686 »

TheoLeo wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:07 pm When exactly will they add Tesla to the index? December 21 st? And do funds have to wait until then before they start buying?

Interesting snippet from a bloomberg article:
" The index funds have the advantage of free-riding, but the disadvantage of being predictable. Stocks should go up when they join an index. That's the price that the index funds pay to active traders for picking stocks. Stock picking is valuable; active investors pay for it in fees, while passive investors pay for it in, you know, front-running or whatever."
They can’t. The SEC has marketing rules which bar this. If you claim to be a index fund you have to follow the index. Further - why would they? Index funds are not judged on return but on their tracking error.

As for the second part, yes - this is well known. Indexes are a idealized version of the world. There are dozens of known exploits for arbitrage trading. Because they are well known there is a industry to squeeze out the quarters, and as tine has gone on, fraction of a penny. Tesla is a bit of a oddity because it is so big.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by TheoLeo »

alex_686 wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:31 pm
TheoLeo wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:07 pm When exactly will they add Tesla to the index? December 21 st? And do funds have to wait until then before they start buying?

Interesting snippet from a bloomberg article:
" The index funds have the advantage of free-riding, but the disadvantage of being predictable. Stocks should go up when they join an index. That's the price that the index funds pay to active traders for picking stocks. Stock picking is valuable; active investors pay for it in fees, while passive investors pay for it in, you know, front-running or whatever."
They can’t. The SEC has marketing rules which bar this. If you claim to be a index fund you have to follow the index. Further - why would they? Index funds are not judged on return but on their tracking error.

As for the second part, yes - this is well known. Indexes are a idealized version of the world. There are dozens of known exploits for arbitrage trading. Because they are well known there is a industry to squeeze out the quarters, and as tine has gone on, fraction of a penny. Tesla is a bit of a oddity because it is so big.
If some companies are bid up 2-5 x as soon as they start making profits (Tesla, Square recently) and passive funds will HAVE to buy them, isnt that a lot more than penny arbitrage?
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by firebirdparts »

TheoLeo wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:51 pm If some companies are bid up 2-5 x as soon as they start making profits (Tesla, Square recently) and passive funds will HAVE to buy them, isnt that a lot more than penny arbitrage?
It's not arbitrage, really. Tesla is trading at 10X the value of the company is a money-making enterprise, so somebody might say
1. It HAS TO be addded to the S&P500
2. When it's added, it HAS TO go up
3. Profit
But that's not really right. It doesn't HAVE TO do anything. For it to be arbitrage, you should be able to just execute it right now, not wait around for six months for something that might happen.

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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by alex_686 »

TheoLeo wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:51 pm If some companies are bid up 2-5 x as soon as they start making profits (Tesla, Square recently) and passive funds will HAVE to buy them, isnt that a lot more than penny arbitrage?
You statement is a bit off. The problem is not when they start making profits. That is just a inflection point from speculative start up to a viable business. Rather, it is being added to a index. This requires 100s of funds to buy the stock, causing demand, causing a spike in price. 10%. Maybe 20%. Not 200%.

In the 80s and 90s this was a easy way to make a few bucks. There were funds that were earnings 10% a year almost risk free by front running S&P. Ah, those salad days. Now barely a blip. Kind of. Elisabeth Kashner did a really good 4-part article on "heart beat trades", how ETFs, markets, and indexes are manipulated. You can only see these movements only with big moves in the index, which are rare. Tesla will be a example of this rare case.

https://insight.factset.com/the-heartbe ... efficiency
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Re: Tesla IS getting added to the S&P

Post by hagridshut »

JoMoney wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:59 pm [Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

It seems (a bit to my own consternation :annoyed ) that the S&P announced Tesla is to be added to the S&P 500 in the December quarterly rebalance. There was a bit of hubbub earlier this year when they were not added even after having met the methodologies eligibility requirements.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-to ... 47773.html
I don't entirely understand why the addition of Tesla to the S&P 500 is a problem. It should make up something like 1.1-1.2% of VOO. I get that people think the company is controversial, but isn't part of the Boglehead strategy to own the haystack, for better or worse?
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alex_686
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Re: Tesla IS getting added to the S&P

Post by alex_686 »

hagridshut wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:46 am I don't entirely understand why the addition of Tesla to the S&P 500 is a problem. It should make up something like 1.1-1.2% of VOO. I get that people think the company is controversial, but isn't part of the Boglehead strategy to own the haystack, for better or worse?
It is more typical to add/subtract a company when it is 1/100 the size. 1% is a pretty large number relatively speaking.
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Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by Forester »

harikaried wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:23 pm Vanguard has updated VTI holdings page as of end of August showing Tesla as the 8th largest at 1.10% weighting out of 25.20% of top 10:
Image

https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profi ... d-holdings

Although those values seem to be rounded to the tenth vs hundredth on https://advisors.vanguard.com/investmen ... #portfolio
IMO Tesla's inclusion is an argument for preferring VTI to VOO, or avoiding cap weighted altogether and holding Min Vol. At least with VTI one would have owned this garbage from the beginning. 1% of one's portfolio could go up in smoke and the presence of Tesla is due to a committee.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by marcopolo »

How has TSLA performed since the active managers of the passive index rejected TSLA for inclusion?

Seems active management (even in a passive index) may have cost the investors real money yet again.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by Xrayman69 »

Tesla went up 8+% on the news. It doesn’t enter the S&P500 until early December and currently is not part of the index. If it stays at this level on the first day it enters this implies that we in S&P500 will be buying the shares at this elevated price on this day with no upside on this news today. Where as those that own the entire pile today will have this portion of their pile increased today. Is this logic correct?
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Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by hagridshut »

Forester wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:47 amIMO Tesla's inclusion is an argument for preferring VTI to VOO, or avoiding cap weighted altogether and holding Min Vol. At least with VTI one would have owned this garbage from the beginning. 1% of one's portfolio could go up in smoke and the presence of Tesla is due to a committee.
I believe that TSLA is actually likely to be a very good investment over the long haul. The company's technology portfolio and pace of progress over the past decade is undeniable. Many people have been saying since 2006-7 that Tesla is junk, but that argument just doesn't hold up to scrutiny based on what they've accomplished over the past 13 years.

Tesla has the most efficient electric powertrains in the automotive industry. Their motors, inverters, battery management systems, and control electronics (hardware and software) are superior to the competition, and getting better.

Tesla now has proven ability to get new manufacturing facilities up and running quickly. The initial phase of the new Shanghai plant took only about a year from construction start to the first rollout of new Model 3 sedans, and the massive expansion of that plant to produce Model Y crossovers only took about another year. This effectively doubles Tesla's production capacity, and Tesla has 2 more plants under construction: Berlin, Germany and Austin, Texas.

Batteries and battery production should become even more efficient with the tabless, dry-cell technology under pilot construction now.

There is also great potential in Tesla Energy solutions, although they are currently only a small portion of Tesla's overall business. Industrial Stationary Storage batteries, such as Tesla's PowerPack and MegaPack allow utilities to replace expensive peaker plants. The batteries also make Wind and Solar generation more practical, since energy generated during the day can be buffered for use at night. The artificial intelligence software that controls these systems may be just as important.

Finally, Tesla is further along in its Autonomy efforts than I think most people realize. Custom silicon in both the cars and at in the Machine Learning process, combined with new software that has just begun rolling out, is yielding promising initial results. It will take time for the system to train and improve, but I think the company has some probability of creating a general purpose self-driving vehicle in the next few years. Their Machine Learning efforts, particularly the training system known as "Dojo", will have applicability beyond driving. Think delivery robots and factory robots with far more general capability than is available today.

In short, Tesla has built, and continues to build, the infrastructure that will help push modern civilization into an era where (1) transportation is Electrically powered, (2) where power grids can support Renewably generated Electricity, and (3) where AI makes autonomous machines far more capable than they are today.

The company now has plenty of cash on hand, and excellent free cash flow.

Obviously, nothing is guaranteed, but Tesla cannot be credibly dismissed after looking at all the evidence. I've driven the cars, and talked to people who use their vehicles and PowerWalls. The last time I remember a portfolio of products this game changing was Apple in the mid to late 2000's.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by Nate79 »

As a total stock market investor: who cares.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by Prettyfrtnt »

marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:26 pm How has TSLA performed since the active managers of the passive index rejected TSLA for inclusion?

Seems active management (even in a passive index) may have cost the investors real money yet again.
Yup!

Happy days guys. We tried to explain... Check up thread. Hope all you BHs out there are VTI and not VOO.

UNPRECEDENTED. Check the s and p press release. 30+ days, two tranches?! They are spooked.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by harikaried »

Gary Black: S&P senior index analyst Howard Silverblatt was asked whether $TSLA CEO @elonmusk could weigh in on how S&P should add TSLA to the S&P 500 (one or two tranches, % each tranche). https://twitter.com/garyblack00/status/ ... 5619067909

Elon Musk: Wise words from Bogle. The point of companies is products & services. They have no point in & of themselves, nor do these indices. Buy & hold stock in companies where you love the product roadmap, sell where you don’t. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1329114904817758208

Where Elon Musk linked to an article that Jack Bogle responded:
… My essay ended with a lengthy (32-line) ringing defense of what the index fund has meant to investors, and that, despite the issues involved in concentration, “nothing should be done to jeopardize the existence of the index fund.” viewtopic.php?f=10&t=265063&p=4242279#p4242279
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by TheoLeo »

Sold my S&P500 fund today and won´t buy any US index until February 2021 or until the Tesla stock price goes down again, whichever happens first. I know this doesn´t have a meaningfull impact on my portfolio, but I do this out of principle. Don´t want to be gamed like this.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by 000 »

TheoLeo wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:45 pm Sold my S&P500 fund today and won´t buy any US index until February 2021 or until the Tesla stock price goes down again, whichever happens first. I know this doesn´t have a meaningfull impact on my portfolio, but I do this out of principle. Don´t want to be gamed like this.
Do you not have access to a broader market US stock fund?
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by TheoLeo »

000 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:59 pm
TheoLeo wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:45 pm Sold my S&P500 fund today and won´t buy any US index until February 2021 or until the Tesla stock price goes down again, whichever happens first. I know this doesn´t have a meaningfull impact on my portfolio, but I do this out of principle. Don´t want to be gamed like this.
Do you not have access to a broader market US stock fund?
I have access to the funds that track the MSCI USA index. I will buy one of those when the time comes. Should have bought those from the beginning. On the other hand, the S&P 500 has the advantage of not holding unprofitable hype stocks like Uber, Splunk or Slack. Don´t know which is worse, but right now I just don´t want to be a bag holder for Tesla.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by wwtraveler »

Funny anecdote I got closed out of my measly 2 share holding of Tesla at around $465 (bought in low 4's) with a limit price of $450. I was like what the heck just happened, what's going on? So yes, you won't be able to prove a thing but I wonder how much money was made on insider info on the announcement. It's not like the S&P is a fiduciary, it's just a analytics firm that has an index "we" all follow.

So that said, with stock probably grabbing up all possible slack what is the play for this if say you had $250k laying around in cash?

Do you buy Tesla even with the run up? Do you look for a Tesla dip? Do you get into an S&P 500 index or leveraged etf? It's like all the facts are there but I'm still not really entirely sure how I should react (except kicking myself for not betting the farm on Tesla about 6-10x now in the past 5 years).

Also from some quick rough math: closing price = $486 x Volume 78M = $37.9B. (I know it's closing price, it's just rough math). Quick google search says total S&P 500 indexed holding is $11.2T and Tesla needs to be about 1%. That's $112B in Tesla that needs to be bought. 112B / 37.9B = 2.95 days worth of trading. So maybe this isn't so daunting for the indexes? Who to drop almost doesn't matter. It's a reallocation that ripples throughout as others have said.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by Prettyfrtnt »

Nate79 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:49 pm As a total stock market investor: who cares.
Hey Nate go back and look at all your old Tesla posts and see how they aged... I love a bunch from February 2018. That was probably the most existentially challenging time. But many before and after.
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harikaried
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by harikaried »

TheoLeo wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:45 pmI know this doesn´t have a meaningfull impact on my portfolio, but I do this out of principle. Don´t want to be gamed like this.
On the flip side, if you buy not-S&P500 index funds, would you be part of the "gaming" and would that be better?
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by columbia »

All the folks shorting TSLA in the BH contest was probably a good indicator to fade the public. :o
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by hagridshut »

wwtraveler wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:52 pm Do you buy Tesla even with the run up? Do you look for a Tesla dip? Do you get into an S&P 500 index or leveraged etf? It's like all the facts are there but I'm still not really entirely sure how I should react (except kicking myself for not betting the farm on Tesla about 6-10x now in the past 5 years).
Prettyfrtnt wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:00 am
Nate79 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:49 pm As a total stock market investor: who cares.
Hey Nate go back and look at all your old Tesla posts and see how they aged... I love a bunch from February 2018. That was probably the most existentially challenging time. But many before and after.
These underscore a point that I think many people who look back with regret need to consider: it was neither easy nor fun to be a TSLA shareholder at many points in time from IPO to the present. Things may be less stressful now that the company is established and on its way, but nothing is ever guaranteed.

From 2010 to 2020, TSLA shareholders have had to cope with: wild price volatility; relentless attacks from the Mainstream Media; countless trolls and haters trashing the company and mocking its investors; crazy behavior from Elon Musk, including his interview with Joe Rogan, the "420" Tweets, Coronavirus tweets, the Cave Diver drama, worries that potential problems at SpaceX would have effects on TSLA, and more.

Shareholders getting a 6 or 10 bagger or even more, did not get this for free. The stress was intense. It may continue to be intense.

One of our colleagues here at Bogleheads even said that they suspect the stress of TSLA and TSLA options may have contributed to the death of a loved one: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=319505#p5355533

Folks should ask themselves: what's a good night's sleep worth?! :confused Would you have trade years of worry, sleepless nights, and relentless stress for that possible, but not guaranteed, 6-10x gain?
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by harikaried »

hagridshut wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:21 amFrom 2010 to 2020, TSLA shareholders have had to cope with: wild price volatility; relentless attacks from the Mainstream Media; countless trolls and haters trashing the company and mocking its investors; crazy behavior from Elon Musk, including his interview with Joe Rogan, the "420" Tweets, Coronavirus tweets, the Cave Diver drama, worries that potential problems at SpaceX would have effects on TSLA, and more.
Ha indeed. We've never directly owned any TSLA, but even watching from the sidelines it gets stressful (but sometimes entertaining). I suppose some of the news does more directly affect us as we do own various Tesla products. At least going forwards, it does seem like there'll be less trolling and hating that would directly impact Tesla's ability to execute as their supply chain and partners probably have more confidence in their experience working with Tesla vs walking away based on fake news.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by bling »

if TSLA is getting added to the S&P 500 that means it would also leave many existing mid cap funds such as VXF, right?
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by harikaried »

bling wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 pm if TSLA is getting added to the S&P 500 that means it would also leave many existing mid cap funds such as VXF, right?
Extended Market funds will probably effectively shift their shares to the S&P 500 funds. Currently VXF has about $4.8billion in TSLA with 5.5% weight. Total Market VTI already has $10.5billion and 1.0% weight for TSLA with similar amount in Visa. So using Visa's weighting in S&P500 VOO as a quick proxy, we should expect roughly $7.1billion and 1.2% if TSLA is added now. This means if Vanguard needed to buy TSLA for VOO today, it would need to buy $2.3billion (4.7million shares ~= 0.6% float) TSLA not from VXF (which is less than 1/3 of the total shares it needs) and likely at the same time selling ~1% shares of each existing holding in VOO.

Similarly, VXF selling TSLA will likely also purchase more shares for the remaining VXF holdings by increasing each by ~6%.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by Prettyfrtnt »

bling wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 pm if TSLA is getting added to the S&P 500 that means it would also leave many existing mid cap funds such as VXF, right?
It’s not in the S&P 400 mid cap fund for the same reasons standard and poors messed this up. So it’s a rare situation where it isn’t going from the mid cap to the large cap. It is 5.5% in the vanguard extended markets so vanguard has a little head start on Blackrock et al.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by Nate79 »

Prettyfrtnt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:42 pm
bling wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 pm if TSLA is getting added to the S&P 500 that means it would also leave many existing mid cap funds such as VXF, right?
It’s not in the S&P 400 mid cap fund for the same reasons standard and poors messed this up. So it’s a rare situation where it isn’t going from the mid cap to the large cap. It is 5.5% in the vanguard extended markets so vanguard has a little head start on Blackrock et al.
The counterpart to the S&P500 is the S&P completion index (Tesla largest holding) followed by funds like VXF that you referenced.
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by harikaried »

Prettyfrtnt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:42 pmSo it’s a rare situation where it isn’t going from the mid cap to the large cap.
I've seen people talk about how Tesla isn't in midcap funds like those tracking S&P 400, but practically does it make much of a difference? S&P 500 VOO has $557 billion in assets while S&P 400 IVOO has $2.1 billion, and Extended VXF has $75 billion. If TSLA was 14% weighting in IVOO, it would be $294 million, which is indeed not insignificant, but it's still pretty small compared to VXF's $4.8 billion in TSLA. Perhaps Vanguard's mid-cap offering just isn't that popular or other places don't offer extended/completion funds but do offer midcap?
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harikaried
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by harikaried »

marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:26 pm How has TSLA performed since the active managers of the passive index rejected TSLA for inclusion?
Here's a 1-year look a month before the shortest day of the year (and S&P 500 TSLA inclusion):

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At least comparing VTI to VOO, the total market fund seems to be 1.5 percentage points higher. And VXF extended 6.1 percentage points higher than VTI. How much can be attributed to TSLA?
Topic Author
harikaried
Posts: 1425
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: What to do with significant index changes, e.g., S&P 500 adding Tesla

Post by harikaried »

Nate79 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:49 pm
Prettyfrtnt wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:55 pm
Nate79 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:46 pm Tesla passes Walmart in market cap where Walmart has about 20x the revenue. Amazing. :shock:
Dude you are using the wrong yardstick. P/e similar to other large growth large caps.
What is the P/E ratio of Tesla and what similar large cap growth stocks have similar P/E?
Here's the Morningstar quote page for TSLA today that includes P/E. I started this thread in July with Tesla having a $200 billion market cap, and now it's more than halfway to $1 trillion:

Image

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnas/tsla/quote
z3r0c00l
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Re: [Tesla added to S&P 500 index]

Post by z3r0c00l »

518 billion market cap meaning it is about 100 billion more than Walmart. 1000+ P/E ratio. Best of luck to those who are gambling on it.*

*Full disclosure I have owned it in an index fund for a while now and riding it up has made all this more palatable. Would hate to buy it for the first time at these lofty heights. And would never speculate on it.
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