Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but as a single female helping her widowed mom and managing both of our portfolios, and on behalf of the many single women out there (whether never married, divorced, or widowed) ...
Any chance of having the first portfolio be "hers" instead of "his"? As a woman I find it frustrating to see the default is not only married, but with the man first. Among other issues, cis married women are statistically likely to outlive their spouses more often than not.
Just a thought ...
cj
Any chance of having the first portfolio be "hers" instead of "his"? As a woman I find it frustrating to see the default is not only married, but with the man first. Among other issues, cis married women are statistically likely to outlive their spouses more often than not.
Just a thought ...
cj
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
So even the use of "spouse" is wrong?
So ask OP to modify the suggested generic "his/her" template to clearly and consistently identifying the owner of each investment. In this way, the OP produces the description they want, and the BHs adapt to the OP's situation.
Again... if you can't win the battle---some fault is found with all suggested changes---then don't fight the battle. Keep the generic template* and request the OP modify it to suit their unique situation.
* Why? The template was good enough when Laura wrote it, and if some fault is found with all suggested changes, then there is insufficient reason to change it.
So ask OP to modify the suggested generic "his/her" template to clearly and consistently identifying the owner of each investment. In this way, the OP produces the description they want, and the BHs adapt to the OP's situation.
Again... if you can't win the battle---some fault is found with all suggested changes---then don't fight the battle. Keep the generic template* and request the OP modify it to suit their unique situation.
* Why? The template was good enough when Laura wrote it, and if some fault is found with all suggested changes, then there is insufficient reason to change it.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
It's been a day, and we seem to have a consensus on this issue, so the Subject: Asking Portfolio Questions post has now been updated. Thanks everyone for your input.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Oh dear, I messed up. The wording should be above taxable because sometimes we get people who have separate taxable accounts. So sorry I didn't see that before. I thought it was right on top of the portfolio, not under taxable.
Link to Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
^^^ And one more administrative suggestion: Add a blank line after the bullet point.
Laura wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:53 pm * The format below is shown using his/her pronouns. Use whatever whatever pronouns or identifying names you prefer as long as it is clear which assets belong to which person.
Taxable
xx% cash (for investing – do not include emergency funds)
xx% fund name (ticker symbol) (expense ratio)
xx% stock company name (ticker symbol)
His 401k
xx% fund name (ticker symbol) (expense ratio)
Company match?
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
^ No worries, it's fixed now.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Thanks! The wiki has been updated. See: Asking portfolio questions
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I like the changes to both sticky and wiki.
Suggested changes to both sticky and wiki.
Current retirement assets
* The format below is shown using his/her pronouns. Use whatever whatever pronouns or identifying names you prefer as long as it is clear which assets belong to which person.
Suggested changes to both sticky and wiki.
Current retirement assets
* The format below is shown using his/her pronouns. Use whatever whatever pronouns or identifying names you prefer as long as it is clear which assets belong to which person.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
^^^ No worries, remember that it also got by myself and Misenplace. I did a quick fix to the forum post. Barry Barnitz fixed the wiki.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Yikes, I was just cutting and pasting and didn't see it anymore. Good to have second and third review!
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
[Moved into this thread from: Suggestions for the Wiki --admin LadyGeek]
Dear All,
I would like to propose a small change to the format for asking portfolio questions. In particular, the section in regard to size of current portfolio. Link below for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
More specifically:
"Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)"
While perfectly acceptable, I believe that a slightly more specific figure is preferable if someone is comfortable sharing it. 600K vs mid-six figures for example). Of course, many posters do exactly this while at times other well meaning people who try to follow the format guidance may do something like the excerpt below (copied from a very recent post):
Size of your current total portfolio:
"Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)"
Just into seven figures
Current portfolio (minus emergency funds) including all investments:
1. "High yield" savings @ 0.57%: high five figures
2. 1-yr CD (till July 17) @1.00: low six figures
3. Other no-interest savings and checking: mid-four figures
4. Cash at Schwab: mid-five figures
5. Invested at Schwab: mid-high six figures.
While I am not suggesting this is a significant issue, I very much appreciate those who provide a bit more clarity in their figures so one can more quickly assess and provide specific feedback. In essence, I would like to modify the current guidance to suggest the option of providing a somewhat more specific figure while still allowing for the "hint" if that is what they prefer.
A such, I would propose an amendment along the lines of the following:
Please provide us with a sense as to the size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 675k, 1.4M, etc.) or at least a hint (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)
Best wishes and thanks for your consideration.
Dear All,
I would like to propose a small change to the format for asking portfolio questions. In particular, the section in regard to size of current portfolio. Link below for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
More specifically:
"Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)"
While perfectly acceptable, I believe that a slightly more specific figure is preferable if someone is comfortable sharing it. 600K vs mid-six figures for example). Of course, many posters do exactly this while at times other well meaning people who try to follow the format guidance may do something like the excerpt below (copied from a very recent post):
Size of your current total portfolio:
"Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)"
Just into seven figures
Current portfolio (minus emergency funds) including all investments:
1. "High yield" savings @ 0.57%: high five figures
2. 1-yr CD (till July 17) @1.00: low six figures
3. Other no-interest savings and checking: mid-four figures
4. Cash at Schwab: mid-five figures
5. Invested at Schwab: mid-high six figures.
While I am not suggesting this is a significant issue, I very much appreciate those who provide a bit more clarity in their figures so one can more quickly assess and provide specific feedback. In essence, I would like to modify the current guidance to suggest the option of providing a somewhat more specific figure while still allowing for the "hint" if that is what they prefer.
A such, I would propose an amendment along the lines of the following:
Please provide us with a sense as to the size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 675k, 1.4M, etc.) or at least a hint (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)
Best wishes and thanks for your consideration.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Simple enough change and might provide more information sometimes.
Link to Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
^^^ I merged invest4's thread into the relevant discussion.
We'll need to get a consensus first.
We'll need to get a consensus first.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I like the suggestion, but perhaps replace 675k with 700k or ~$700k? Really, what's useful is one or two significant digits and the exponent. 675k is more precise than necessary.
EDIT: one or two digits
EDIT: one or two digits
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Re: Suggestions for the Wiki
I agree.invest4 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:45 am
A such, I would propose an amendment along the lines of the following:
Please provide us with a sense as to the size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 675k, 1.4M, etc.) or at least a hint (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.)
Best wishes and thanks for your consideration.
The other thing that I’d like to see is “expected expenses in retirement”, “expected pensions” and “expected SS benefits” when the poster is asking for assistance with constructing a portfolio to cover unmet needs.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Agree with this proposed change. It’s minor but maybe it will encourage posters to provide a numerical value/range which sometimes may be more useful than “low six-figures” (as noted by retiredjg). For example, there is a current thread about retiring where posting the numerical value rather than “low 7-figures” in the OP (rather than mid thread after requests for the value) would have changed my (and perhaps other) response(s). No offense intended to the OP in that thread as their originalinvest4 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:45 am … A such, I would propose an amendment along the lines of the following:
Please provide us with a sense as to the size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 675k, 1.4M, etc.) or at least a hint (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.) …
post fine and in the current requested format.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I'd like to use more concise wording, as "hint" may not be clear to new investors. Would this be OK?
From:
From:
To:Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.) What might be appropriate for a very large portfolio might not be appropriate for a new investor.
Please provide an approximate size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 700k, 1.4M, etc.) or as (high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.). What might be appropriate for a very large portfolio might not be appropriate for a new investor.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
"Approximate size" does seem clearer than "hint".
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
+1
The reason for disclosing portfolio size in a portfolio review request seems straight forward so consider striking the second sentence (“What might be appropriate…”)
The reason for disclosing portfolio size in a portfolio review request seems straight forward so consider striking the second sentence (“What might be appropriate…”)
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I agree.HomeStretch wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:12 pm +1
The reason for disclosing portfolio size in a portfolio review request seems straight forward so consider striking the second sentence (“What might be appropriate…”)
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
OK, 2nd sentence struck. I'll wait for other opinions. From:
To:Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.) What might be appropriate for a very large portfolio might not be appropriate for a new investor.
Please provide an approximate size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 700k, 1.4M, etc.) or as (high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.).
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
The new phrasing is good.LadyGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:27 pm OK, 2nd sentence struck. I'll wait for other opinions. From:To:Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.) What might be appropriate for a very large portfolio might not be appropriate for a new investor.Please provide an approximate size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 700k, 1.4M, etc.) or as (high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.).
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
That's the best suggestion so farsycamore wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:39 pmThe new phrasing is good.LadyGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:27 pm OK, 2nd sentence struck. I'll wait for other opinions. From:To:Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.) What might be appropriate for a very large portfolio might not be appropriate for a new investor.Please provide an approximate size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 700k, 1.4M, etc.) or as (high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.).
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Laura's post and the wiki have been updated.
See: Asking Portfolio Questions (forum post) and Asking portfolio questions
See: Asking Portfolio Questions (forum post) and Asking portfolio questions
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Yes. What is important from my perspective is we are consequently seeing more of the first (preferred) vs the second (totally fine is they do not wish to share too much). They are not created equal.ruralavalon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:33 pmThat's the best suggestion so farsycamore wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:39 pmThe new phrasing is good.LadyGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:27 pm OK, 2nd sentence struck. I'll wait for other opinions. From:To:Please provide a hint as to the size of your current total portfolio (as in high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.) What might be appropriate for a very large portfolio might not be appropriate for a new investor.Please provide an approximate size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 700k, 1.4M, etc.) or as (high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.).
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Cross posting on this thread just for awareness...I made a post on my bogle.tools/portfolio-review thread asking about grouping/ordering of accounts/investments in a portfolio review post. (i'm not arguing for a change, just trying to understand the desired grouping/ordering)
Update: added a link on “the discussion” to the discussion.
LadyGeek replied, and the discussion led to some discoveries of the suggested order of accounts. Still trying to nail down the exact preferred order…Rob Relyea wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:51 pm Back to a /portfolio-review topic.
The tool can easily order accounts/investments in a way that is easiest to review.
What would you portfolio reviewers suggest as the order that bogle.tools/portfolio-review uses for account/investments?
...
Update: added a link on “the discussion” to the discussion.
Last edited by Rob Relyea on Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I see the proposed tool on the link, but don't see any discussion. Here is how I like to see it.
Taxable
work plan
old work plans
Roth IRA(s) or Traditional IRA(s)
traditional IRA(s) or Roth IRA(s)
HSA if used for retirement
same repeated for person #2 if there is one
This is more or less how it has been done since I joined and is just where my brain looks for things.
Taxable
work plan
old work plans
Roth IRA(s) or Traditional IRA(s)
traditional IRA(s) or Roth IRA(s)
HSA if used for retirement
same repeated for person #2 if there is one
This is more or less how it has been done since I joined and is just where my brain looks for things.
Link to Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I agree to leave the sort order alone. We have too much prior history with the current format and need to avoid changes.
^^^ 2 up. Rob Relyea has updated his post with the link to his discussion.
^^^ 2 up. Rob Relyea has updated his post with the link to his discussion.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I'm tracking the details of this change in bogle.tools/portfolio-review in a github issue: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/107]
Won't get to it do the change right away, but hope to soon. When I do, I'll circle back here with:
1) pointer to the changes I make to /portfolio-review to follow this guidance
2) possible wording clarifications to Asking Portfolio Questions. (??? - haven't thought deeply yet)
Won't get to it do the change right away, but hope to soon. When I do, I'll circle back here with:
1) pointer to the changes I make to /portfolio-review to follow this guidance
2) possible wording clarifications to Asking Portfolio Questions. (??? - haven't thought deeply yet)
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Ok, I think I've collected the "ideal" ordering of accounts and investments for portfolio review from retiredjg and LadyGeek.
I've modified bogle.tools/portfolio-review to use this new order, and will tweak based on further feedback.
Please let me know anything I missed, or of any other improvements you would suggest.
Account ordering:
"Annuity (Non-Qualified)" or "Brokerage" or "Taxable":
1. our
2. Person1
3. Person2
Person1:
4. "401k" or "403b" or "457b" or "Roth 401k" or "SIMPLE IRA" or "Solo 401k" or "SEP IRA"
5. "Annuity (Qualified)" or "Inherited IRA" or "Traditional IRA" or "Rollover IRA"
6. "Inherited Roth IRA" or "Roth IRA"
7. "HSA"
8. any other accounts
Person2:
9. "401k" or "403b" or "457b" or "Roth 401k" or "SIMPLE IRA" or "Solo 401k" or "SEP IRA"
10. "Annuity (Qualified)" or "Inherited IRA" or "Traditional IRA" or "Rollover IRA"
11. "Inherited Roth IRA" or "Roth IRA"
12. "HSA"
13. any other accounts
Within each of those 13 account categories, further sorted by largest value to smallest value.
bogle.tools doesn't currently identify the active work plan vs older 401ks, etc... So I have a tracking issue for that future improvement: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/121
Within each account, Investment ordering:
1. USStock or USStock_ETF or USStock_Fund
2. InternationalStock or InternationalStock_ETF or InternationalStock_Fund
3. Bond or Bond_ETF or Bond_Fund
4. StocksAndBonds_ETF or StocksAndBonds_Fund
5. Cash or Cash_BankAccount or Cash_MoneyMarket
6. any others or unknown
Within each of those 6 investment categories, further sorted by largest value to smallest value.
Relevant quotes from retiredjg:
I've modified bogle.tools/portfolio-review to use this new order, and will tweak based on further feedback.
Please let me know anything I missed, or of any other improvements you would suggest.
Account ordering:
"Annuity (Non-Qualified)" or "Brokerage" or "Taxable":
1. our
2. Person1
3. Person2
Person1:
4. "401k" or "403b" or "457b" or "Roth 401k" or "SIMPLE IRA" or "Solo 401k" or "SEP IRA"
5. "Annuity (Qualified)" or "Inherited IRA" or "Traditional IRA" or "Rollover IRA"
6. "Inherited Roth IRA" or "Roth IRA"
7. "HSA"
8. any other accounts
Person2:
9. "401k" or "403b" or "457b" or "Roth 401k" or "SIMPLE IRA" or "Solo 401k" or "SEP IRA"
10. "Annuity (Qualified)" or "Inherited IRA" or "Traditional IRA" or "Rollover IRA"
11. "Inherited Roth IRA" or "Roth IRA"
12. "HSA"
13. any other accounts
Within each of those 13 account categories, further sorted by largest value to smallest value.
bogle.tools doesn't currently identify the active work plan vs older 401ks, etc... So I have a tracking issue for that future improvement: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/121
Within each account, Investment ordering:
1. USStock or USStock_ETF or USStock_Fund
2. InternationalStock or InternationalStock_ETF or InternationalStock_Fund
3. Bond or Bond_ETF or Bond_Fund
4. StocksAndBonds_ETF or StocksAndBonds_Fund
5. Cash or Cash_BankAccount or Cash_MoneyMarket
6. any others or unknown
Within each of those 6 investment categories, further sorted by largest value to smallest value.
Relevant quotes from retiredjg:
retiredjg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:24 pm I see the proposed tool on the link, but don't see any discussion. Here is how I like to see it.
Taxable
work plan
old work plans
Roth IRA(s) or Traditional IRA(s)
traditional IRA(s) or Roth IRA(s)
HSA if used for retirement
same repeated for person #2 if there is one
This is more or less how it has been done since I joined and is just where my brain looks for things.
retiredjg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:31 pm Regarding investments within an account being in descending value order. Please do not do that.
Again, information is most helpful when it is found easily.
US stocks
Foreign stocks
Bonds
This has worked well for a very long time and there is no reason to change it. Many people do not follow this and that's ok if their records are in descending value order (although it does increase the work of the "helper"). But do not ask them to post that way when the above makes a lot more sense.
Sorry, I have not had time to read the rest of what is posted here. I'll get to it in the next few days.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Changing the structure of the input data set by changing the order of entries depending on their size is an absolute no-no.
It could be this might be done as part of a particular presentation of some of the data, but I think in the case of a portfolio of investments by stocks, bonds, etc. one really does not want to do that.
It could be this might be done as part of a particular presentation of some of the data, but I think in the case of a portfolio of investments by stocks, bonds, etc. one really does not want to do that.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Currently, account order in both Portfolio Tracker and Portfolio Review part of bogle.tools, is based on import order (from CSVs) or data entry order. There is no current way to reorder the accounts manually. I've created a tracking issue about that enhancement: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/122dbr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:49 am Changing the structure of the input data set by changing the order of entries depending on their size is an absolute no-no.
It could be this might be done as part of a particular presentation of some of the data, but I think in the case of a portfolio of investments by stocks, bonds, etc. one really does not want to do that.
Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
In all practicality, I don't see the need for sorting. New investors are confused enough as it is. I don't want to burden them with having to figure out if they should sort by title, expense ratio, or percentage.
It's only a few entries and the "experts" can find what they're looking for in no time flat.
I recommend closing the issue. It's important that your tool matches the format shown in the forum (and wiki). Doing otherwise makes a difficult task even more so for new investors.
It's only a few entries and the "experts" can find what they're looking for in no time flat.
I recommend closing the issue. It's important that your tool matches the format shown in the forum (and wiki). Doing otherwise makes a difficult task even more so for new investors.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
I agree with retiredjg's comments. The existing order works well as is, so I see no benefit in changing this.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Users don't need to do anything.LadyGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:27 am In all practicality, I don't see the need for sorting. New investors are confused enough as it is. I don't want to burden them with having to figure out if they should sort by title, expense ratio, or percentage.
It's only a few entries and the "experts" can find what they're looking for in no time flat.
I recommend closing the issue. It's important that your tool matches the format shown in the forum (and wiki). Doing otherwise makes a difficult task even more so for new investors.
I'm just making it so that the tool outputs as reviewers expect it and is lightly documented in "asking portfolio questions". If I don't do that, the tool will output in random orders.
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Re: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread
Correct, we are not changing the order that is recommended by retiredjg and lightly specified in "Asking Portfolio Questions".ruralavalon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:00 am I agree with retiredjg's comments. The existing order works well as is, so I see no benefit in changing this.
I'm just making bogle.tools/portfolio-review output accounts and investments in that order.