iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

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Outer Marker
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Outer Marker »

02nz wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:17 pm
Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:56 am A small, dedicated, point-and-shoot camera is going to be infinitely better than the best phone camera.
This might have been true 5 years ago when the iPhone 6S came out, but not these days. Within their limitations (e.g., lack of true optical zoom, only fixed focal lengths), a good camera phone like the iPhone 11/12 or Pixel 3a (or newer) will take significantly better pictures than most point-and-shoots, not to mention their ease of use for sharing those photos. Even with an enthusiast P&S like the RX100 (which can run over $1K for the newer models), it's a pretty close fight, with the phones often coming out ahead under the most challenging circumstances, where the software more than makes up for the point-and-shoot's hardware advantages.
I may be behind the times, but in my dinosaur old photographer’s brain, big glass to take in the image and photo cells to process the image matter. I don’t have current side-by-sides to compare. But my Luminex crushes my iPhone on photos.
02nz
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by 02nz »

Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:48 pm
02nz wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:17 pm
Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:56 am A small, dedicated, point-and-shoot camera is going to be infinitely better than the best phone camera.
This might have been true 5 years ago when the iPhone 6S came out, but not these days. Within their limitations (e.g., lack of true optical zoom, only fixed focal lengths), a good camera phone like the iPhone 11/12 or Pixel 3a (or newer) will take significantly better pictures than most point-and-shoots, not to mention their ease of use for sharing those photos. Even with an enthusiast P&S like the RX100 (which can run over $1K for the newer models), it's a pretty close fight, with the phones often coming out ahead under the most challenging circumstances, where the software more than makes up for the point-and-shoot's hardware advantages.
I may be behind the times, but in my dinosaur old photographer’s brain, big glass to take in the image and photo cells to process the image matter. I don’t have current side-by-sides to compare. But my Luminex crushes my iPhone on photos.
A quick Google search does not show any camera called Luminex. Maybe you meant Lumix, which is Panasonic's brand for its digital cameras, everything from $200 point and shoots to full-on interchangeable lens cameras. Which one are you talking about? And which iPhone?
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crystalbank
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by crystalbank »

02nz wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:17 pm
Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:56 am A small, dedicated, point-and-shoot camera is going to be infinitely better than the best phone camera.
This might have been true 5 years ago when the iPhone 6S came out, but not these days. Within their limitations (e.g., lack of true optical zoom, only fixed focal lengths), a good camera phone like the iPhone 11/12 or Pixel 3a (or newer) will take significantly better pictures than most point-and-shoots, not to mention their ease of use for sharing those photos. Even with an enthusiast P&S like the RX100 (which can run over $1K for the newer models), it's a pretty close fight, with the phones often coming out ahead under the most challenging circumstances, where the software more than makes up for the point-and-shoot's hardware advantages.
Did you shoot with any P&S cameras lately? I still think a 'decent' P&S camera is leaps and bounds ahead of any smartphone camera. If you're taking about $1k range, it's not even close.
02nz
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by 02nz »

crystalbank wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:26 pm
02nz wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:17 pm
Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:56 am A small, dedicated, point-and-shoot camera is going to be infinitely better than the best phone camera.
This might have been true 5 years ago when the iPhone 6S came out, but not these days. Within their limitations (e.g., lack of true optical zoom, only fixed focal lengths), a good camera phone like the iPhone 11/12 or Pixel 3a (or newer) will take significantly better pictures than most point-and-shoots, not to mention their ease of use for sharing those photos. Even with an enthusiast P&S like the RX100 (which can run over $1K for the newer models), it's a pretty close fight, with the phones often coming out ahead under the most challenging circumstances, where the software more than makes up for the point-and-shoot's hardware advantages.
Did you shoot with any P&S cameras lately? I still think a 'decent' P&S camera is leaps and bounds ahead of any smartphone camera. If you're taking about $1k range, it's not even close.
Of course a $1200 RX100 Mk7 can take better pictures than a $600 iPhone 11, and as a dedicated photography tool it can do lots of things the iPhone cannot. But for the things normal people do with their cameras, the typical point-and-shoot is not "infinitely better" than a modern smartphone camera.

To bring this back to the OP's needs - Outer Marker advised that "if photos are what is important to you, you are much further ahead investing in a small dedicated point and shoot camera than a new phone. It is both more cost effective and more quality enhancing. It's not even close." But OP has a 5-year-old phone that is likely near the end of its usable life and will benefit from improvements in processing speed, storage, functionality, battery life, possibly 5G, and much more, IN ADDITION to a much better camera.
Starfish
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Starfish »

Jags4186 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:19 am
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:53 am
Supurdueper wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:42 am I have the iPhone 6s as well, and I just got an offer from AT&T to trade in for a $350 credit, so the price of a new 12 124gb is $500. Im definitely considering.
How much does the phone plan cost? Is there a minimum amount of time you would be required to stay with AT&T if you accept the trade-in offer?
I’ve yet to find a carrier trade-in deal that is better than just buying outright from Apple and using an MVNO like Mint Mobile. In fairness, Mint Mobile won’t offer the same level of service as a postpaid carrier, but the cost is much less and I’ve yet to be disappointed after using Mint for a year.

In my case the price comparison was as follows:

2 lines, 36 months of Mint Mobile, two new iPhone 12 Pros with two trade ins valued at $250 each purchased direct from Apple:

3gb plan: $2519.44 for 36 months service + phones
8gb plan: $2892.40 for 36 months of service + phones
35gb plan: $3,621.64 for 36 months of service + phones

The best carrier deal I could find was on T-Mobile (same network as Mint)

Even with them giving me $680 for each phone I’d trade in (vs. the $250 Apple is giving me for buying full price direct)

2 lines, T-Mobile “Essentials” plan, cost of service for 36 months + phones: $4,562.22

Because the carrier trade-in deals are all based on monthly credits, the cost of increased trade-in is baked into the monthly cost of service. Cancel the service, lose the boosted trade-in credit.

The $900-$2000 in savings can easily pay for international data, Netflix subscriptions, or whatever other “freebies” T-Mobile gives it’s customers. Or it can just sit in my pocket.
The value of the carrier plays no role?
After suffering with Sprint I have no intention to use another carrier than Verizon or ATT ever gain. A free phone has no use in a bad network.
My boost mobile phone (former virgin, mnvo on Sprint) has no signal 1 mile behind my house on a road I use often. It has no data on a beach I go with my kid very often. It has no signal at my wife's work.
Jags4186
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Jags4186 »

Starfish wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:26 am The value of the carrier plays no role?
After suffering with Sprint I have no intention to use another carrier than Verizon or ATT ever gain. A free phone has no use in a bad network.
My boost mobile phone (former virgin, mnvo on Sprint) has no signal 1 mile behind my house on a road I use often. It has no data on a beach I go with my kid very often. It has no signal at my wife's work.
Yes, the value of the carrier plays a role. That’s why I compared Mint Mobile to T-Mobile as they run on the same network. If T-Mobile’s network doesn’t work for you (which is the network Mint Mobile runs on), you could go look at RedPocket which offers plans on AT&T’s and Verizon’s network and compare to AT&T’s and Verizon’s postpaid plans. I would point out that T-Mobile has by far the largest 5G network in the United States and, where I live in a NYC suburb coverage is near universal. Of course, if I lived in rural Nebraska, T-Mobile/Mint Mobile would not be suitable for me.

The question I was answering was “does it make sense to take advantage of a postpaid carrier offer on the iPhone 12”. I don’t think it does. Of course, if you want unlimited fastest possible connection at all time you would need to go with (and pay for) AT&T, Verizon, or T-Mobile postpaid service. I myself and spending more time at home these days and am on WiFi most of the time. I would think that’s the case for most people. Ironically, my WiFi connection is actually slower than my Mint Mobile LTE connection (I can clock 120mbps down on T-Mobile/Mint Mobile from my house and I only have 100mbps Verizon FIOS landline). I assume when I get a 5G iPhone my speeds will be at least as good if not better.
Topic Author
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

Starfish wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:26 am
Jags4186 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:19 am
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:53 am
Supurdueper wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:42 am I have the iPhone 6s as well, and I just got an offer from AT&T to trade in for a $350 credit, so the price of a new 12 124gb is $500. Im definitely considering.
How much does the phone plan cost? Is there a minimum amount of time you would be required to stay with AT&T if you accept the trade-in offer?
I’ve yet to find a carrier trade-in deal that is better than just buying outright from Apple and using an MVNO like Mint Mobile. In fairness, Mint Mobile won’t offer the same level of service as a postpaid carrier, but the cost is much less and I’ve yet to be disappointed after using Mint for a year.

In my case the price comparison was as follows:

2 lines, 36 months of Mint Mobile, two new iPhone 12 Pros with two trade ins valued at $250 each purchased direct from Apple:

3gb plan: $2519.44 for 36 months service + phones
8gb plan: $2892.40 for 36 months of service + phones
35gb plan: $3,621.64 for 36 months of service + phones

The best carrier deal I could find was on T-Mobile (same network as Mint)

Even with them giving me $680 for each phone I’d trade in (vs. the $250 Apple is giving me for buying full price direct)

2 lines, T-Mobile “Essentials” plan, cost of service for 36 months + phones: $4,562.22

Because the carrier trade-in deals are all based on monthly credits, the cost of increased trade-in is baked into the monthly cost of service. Cancel the service, lose the boosted trade-in credit.

The $900-$2000 in savings can easily pay for international data, Netflix subscriptions, or whatever other “freebies” T-Mobile gives it’s customers. Or it can just sit in my pocket.
The value of the carrier plays no role?
After suffering with Sprint I have no intention to use another carrier than Verizon or ATT ever gain. A free phone has no use in a bad network.
My boost mobile phone (former virgin, mnvo on Sprint) has no signal 1 mile behind my house on a road I use often. It has no data on a beach I go with my kid very often. It has no signal at my wife's work.
None of the networks seem to work well from the first floor of my home so it doesn’t matter. As far as I’m concerned, that makes them all bad. I’m in the Bay Area, not in some remote place.
hunoraut
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by hunoraut »

Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:48 pm I may be behind the times, but in my dinosaur old photographer’s brain, big glass to take in the image and photo cells to process the image matter. I don’t have current side-by-sides to compare. But my Luminex crushes my iPhone on photos.
pure physics, you want the biggest sensor to gather the most light. dinosaur equivalent would be the size of film stock.

most "point & shoot" class are 1/2.3" sensor, and the largest are 1/1.7" sensor. (1" being a rare prosumer class)
current iphone sensor are now 7mm*5mm and thus roughly the same size as the largest point & shoot sensor.

the actual glass, you want as little as possible. more glass elements = less light transmitted. engineers only fit as many glass elements as necessary to control color, flare, distortion, other aberrations, etc.

most of these artifacts can be corrected via software. in fact photographers do correct it in software, even for photos shot from traditional systems. it's just that smartphones do most of this stuff automatically.

exposures and color rendition? again, post-processing stuff that is now done automatically. dynamic range? all these phones do bracketed stacking, i.e. HDR.


given the same composition, what determines how pleasing a photo looks isn't the per-pixel accuracy, but overall contrast level, tonality, etc. and these elements the iphone software does crushes the JPG engine in a P&S from sony, olympus, pentax, whatever...
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crystalbank
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by crystalbank »

hunoraut wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:14 pm
Outer Marker wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:48 pm I may be behind the times, but in my dinosaur old photographer’s brain, big glass to take in the image and photo cells to process the image matter. I don’t have current side-by-sides to compare. But my Luminex crushes my iPhone on photos.
pure physics, you want the biggest sensor to gather the most light. dinosaur equivalent would be the size of film stock.

most "point & shoot" class are 1/2.3" sensor, and the largest are 1/1.7" sensor. (1" being a rare prosumer class)
current iphone sensor are now 7mm*5mm and thus roughly the same size as the largest point & shoot sensor.

the actual glass, you want as little as possible. more glass elements = less light transmitted. engineers only fit as many glass elements as necessary to control color, flare, distortion, other aberrations, etc.

most of these artifacts can be corrected via software. in fact photographers do correct it in software, even for photos shot from traditional systems. it's just that smartphones do most of this stuff automatically.

exposures and color rendition? again, post-processing stuff that is now done automatically. dynamic range? all these phones do bracketed stacking, i.e. HDR.


given the same composition, what determines how pleasing a photo looks isn't the per-pixel accuracy, but overall contrast level, tonality, etc. and these elements the iphone software does crushes the JPG engine in a P&S from sony, olympus, pentax, whatever...
I guess the latest iPhone has pretty big sensor size and has phenomenal "post". But, have you ever tried to zoom-in or print said pictures from a smart phone? The fake bokeh, "adjusted" skin tones and the AI or whatever makes everything look really flat. I'm sure eventually P&S cameras will be replaced by smart phones, but this new era of 'computational photography' is really in its infancy. Similar to how digital cameras were circa early 2000s compared to the film cameras of the time.
hunoraut
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by hunoraut »

crystalbank wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:03 pm I guess the latest iPhone has pretty big sensor size and has phenomenal "post". But, have you ever tried to zoom-in or print said pictures from a smart phone? The fake bokeh, "adjusted" skin tones and the AI or whatever makes everything look really flat. I'm sure eventually P&S cameras will be replaced by smart phones, but this new era of 'computational photography' is really in its infancy. Similar to how digital cameras were circa early 2000s compared to the film cameras of the time.
I do my printing on an A3+ system. A modern 12MP smartphone sensor is very sufficient. And if we're talking specifically about comparisons to P&S, it is equal or better. The P&S has been dead for years. It's seen no development on the sensor side - manufacturers aren't putting R&D into things that don't sell.

There is no good "real" bokeh with a P&S. The characteristics of bokeh (shape, definition, smoothness, etc) is lens design, and nobody is designing a zoom lens on a $300 P&S for pleasing bokeh. As shallow depth of the field is ultimately governed by sensor size (and intrinsically tied to aperture and distance to subject), a P&S is now no longer providing a stronger DOF effect than a phone -- given they have the same sensor size.

A final layer on all this is the viewing context for these things. People typically are not printing smartphones OR P&S photos at 24" wide for gallery exhibition. They're sharing it across mobile services (that already apply additional compression) to other viewers looking through a device 6" diagonal. At this scale, the overall impression is formed by the intensity and tonality, not by pixel level acuity.

The only useful remaining application for P&S are ultra-rugged adventure cameras. The rest of them are dead, and bridge cameras are next on that list.
lazydavid
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by lazydavid »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:53 am None of the networks seem to work well from the first floor of my home so it doesn’t matter. As far as I’m concerned, that makes them all bad. I’m in the Bay Area, not in some remote place.
Then you want to choose a carrier that works well the other places you go, and a device for that carrier that has Wifi calling.
bo105954027
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by bo105954027 »

crystalbank wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:12 pm iPhone SE (2nd Gen) Pros:
+ Touch ID
+ Cheaper

iPhone SE (2nd Gen) Cons:
- Mediocre Design (Highly subjective)
- Lackluster Camera (Repurposed iPhone 8 sensor)
- Bigger than the original SE

iPhone 12 Mini Pros:
+ Very close to original SE design and size
+ Newer Camera
+ Better screen (OLED)
+ More Color choices
+ 5G (?)

iPhone 12 Mini Cons:
- FaceID only (Subjective)
- Expensive

Personally, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on 5G. It's still a new technology. But I really like the size, camera and design of iPhone 12 Mini so I'd choose the iPhone 12 Mini.
Actually, I prefer SE20's traditional design over 12mini's ugly notch screen.

I've been using SE20 since it came out and very happy with it. I won't turn to 1X mini until Apply finally uses true whole display (please please eliminate the ugly notch) and apply under screen touch ID which is already a mature technology.
Time in market beats timing the market.
jjface
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by jjface »

I think the lack of a night mode photography on the SE 2020 can be a big deal. And some people don't want a dated design, smaller screen and lcd. But for most people it is a decent phone for the price especially.

The 12 mini would be good if you prefer a newer design with face unlock and gestures with a larger screen in a smaller body. As well as a slightly better camera system - night mode photography, deep fusion and an ultra wide angle lens. But other than that not really worth it to me. 5g isn't going to change your life. $730 starting cost sounds ridiculous if you ask me. But some want the latest in the smallest body so there you go.

I'd just pick the one that you are drawn to the most. Many keep these for 5+ years so cost isn't too much of a factor at the end of the day. I mean if you keep your phone for 5 years then you are only paying $66 more a year for the iphone 12 mini over the iphone se 2020. Not that much in the scheme of things.
Last edited by jjface on Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jjface
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by jjface »

hunoraut wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:07 am
I do my printing on an A3+ system. A modern 12MP smartphone sensor is very sufficient. And if we're talking specifically about comparisons to P&S, it is equal or better. The P&S has been dead for years. It's seen no development on the sensor side - manufacturers aren't putting R&D into things that don't sell.
I disagree. I think the 1" sensor cameras are excellent and where the P&S format excels. The quality of the photos is a lot better and the auto modes are a lot less processed than most phone cameras which go way over the top one way or the other. Apple loves to make fire colors very bold and skin tones more orangey. You can tell a photo from a phone right away - they have that look. Many add a lot of sharpening and aggressive noise reduction. Sure a good photographer can get good A3 prints out of a smartphone though. Kit is only a small part of the equation. And sure phone cameras are good for memories and online posting. Most people prefer a phone for the convenience and aren't that picky anyway. But that doesn't mean POS aren't better. They just aren't appreciated as much or aren't necessary for the user.

The 1" sensor cameras don't have to be $1000+ cameras either. Even the oldest RX100 is a great camera and can be bought for a few hundred bucks. They have better zooming capabilities - some going up to 10x (maybe more nowadays). Though most won't do ultrawide. Smartphones do have some advantages such as fast photo stacking (like apple deep fusion), night modes, video stabilization and ability to post process to some extent on the device. Personally I like having both.
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wander
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by wander »

If your phone carrier will give 5G service without any additional charge, then you better get a 5G compatible phone.
hunoraut
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by hunoraut »

jjface wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:17 pm I disagree. I think the 1" sensor cameras are excellent and where the P&S format excels. The quality of the photos is a lot better and the auto modes are a lot less processed than most phone cameras which go way over the top one way or the other. Apple loves to make fire colors very bold and skin tones more orangey. You can tell a photo from a phone right away - they have that look. Many add a lot of sharpening and aggressive noise reduction. Sure a good photographer can get good A3 prints out of a smartphone though. Kit is only a small part of the equation. And sure phone cameras are good for memories and online posting. Most people prefer a phone for the convenience and aren't that picky anyway. But that doesn't mean POS aren't better. They just aren't appreciated as much or aren't necessary for the user.

The 1" sensor cameras don't have to be $1000+ cameras either. Even the oldest RX100 is a great camera and can be bought for a few hundred bucks. They have better zooming capabilities - some going up to 10x (maybe more nowadays). Though most won't do ultrawide. Smartphones do have some advantages such as fast photo stacking (like apple deep fusion), night modes, video stabilization and ability to post process to some extent on the device. Personally I like having both.
I did say the 1" is a prosumer class and is an exception. At this moment, from the manufacturer website, they survive in P&S formfactor as:

* Canon G7x - $750
* Panasonic ZS100 - $700
* Sony RX100 V/VI/VII - $850/$1000/$1200
* Sony ZV1 - $700

That's it. And I find even these are being encroached on, as smartphones are fitting stabilized telephotos on them. I had the original RX100 but really didn't enjoy the user experience. For the volume that it occupied in a jacket pocket, I found it more pleasant to carry a 4/3rd camera like the LX100. Or quite a few other choice with fixed-lens APS-C.

The remaining 1" are used in bridge camera where they serve a pretty safe niche for high magnification, but even those sales volumes seem to be tanking.

The actual <$500 P&S that used to litter the market now litter the wayside. All the Canon ELPH that every person used to have? Seems to be gone.
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Ron Ronnerson
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

lazydavid wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:16 am
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:53 am None of the networks seem to work well from the first floor of my home so it doesn’t matter. As far as I’m concerned, that makes them all bad. I’m in the Bay Area, not in some remote place.
Then you want to choose a carrier that works well the other places you go, and a device for that carrier that has Wifi calling.
That's a fair point but the price difference is an important consideration. It comes down to a calculation about how much better the coverage is and how much more that better coverage costs. As someone who is rarely out of the Bay Area, I personally wouldn't want to pay too much extra for better coverage.
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Ron Ronnerson
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

jjface wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:07 pm I think the lack of a night mode photography on the SE 2020 can be a big deal. And some people don't want a dated design, smaller screen and lcd. But for most people it is a decent phone for the price especially.

The 12 mini would be good if you prefer a newer design with face unlock and gestures with a larger screen in a smaller body. As well as a slightly better camera system - night mode photography, deep fusion and an ultra wide angle lens. But other than that not really worth it to me. 5g isn't going to change your life. $730 starting cost sounds ridiculous if you ask me. But some want the latest in the smallest body so there you go.

I'd just pick the one that you are drawn to the most. Many keep these for 5+ years so cost isn't too much of a factor at the end of the day. I mean if you keep your phone for 5 years then you are only paying $66 more a year for the iphone 12 mini over the iphone se 2020. Not that much in the scheme of things.
You articulate my dilemma well. The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones. That is a ridiculous amount to me too. However, the less expensive SE 2020 would still cost $1k for two phones. If we keep the phones for 5 years, the price difference comes to $600 over five years for two people (or $5/month per person). It doesn't seem so bad when you consider it that way. Also, for that entire time, we'd be using a better phone. There is also the fact that since the SE has last year's chip, we may not be able to use it for quite as long as we could the 12 mini (maybe we'd replace it after 4 years instead of 5). This tilts things a bit more in favor of the 12 as well.

Thanks for replying to my question. It's taken some mulling but all the previous comments along with your response (especially the part about night mode) have nudged me more toward the 12. My wife was thinking the SE might be the way to go due to the price difference but it seems like once you get past the initial sticker shock, the difference isn't so great when it is spread out over 5 years.
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climber2020
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by climber2020 »

hunoraut wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:14 pm
most "point & shoot" class are 1/2.3" sensor, and the largest are 1/1.7" sensor. (1" being a rare prosumer class)
current iphone sensor are now 7mm*5mm and thus roughly the same size as the largest point & shoot sensor.
Don't forget the Ricoh GR. Fits in a pocket, is significantly thinner than an RX100, has an APS-C sensor, and a really good f2.8 lens.
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by jebmke »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones.
Over five years, about the price of my haircut (which is free, now that spouse learned how to do it). Less than a year of her haircuts.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
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Ron Ronnerson
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

jebmke wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:38 pm
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones.
Over five years, about the price of my haircut (which is free, now that spouse learned how to do it). Less than a year of her haircuts.
Wow! That’s quite a hair budget! I think it would take our family of three about eight years to spend that much on haircuts. I still see you point, though.
lazydavid
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Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by lazydavid »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:46 pm
lazydavid wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:16 am
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:53 am None of the networks seem to work well from the first floor of my home so it doesn’t matter. As far as I’m concerned, that makes them all bad. I’m in the Bay Area, not in some remote place.
Then you want to choose a carrier that works well the other places you go, and a device for that carrier that has Wifi calling.
That's a fair point but the price difference is an important consideration. It comes down to a calculation about how much better the coverage is and how much more that better coverage costs. As someone who is rarely out of the Bay Area, I personally wouldn't want to pay too much extra for better coverage.
Then you want the carrier with better coverage inside the Bay area in general (your first floor notwithstanding), or at least the parts of it you frequent. It's like the old adage of a consumer not actually being interested in a drill. What they are really buying is holes. You want the most cost-effective solution that meets as much of your needs as possible. Presumably there is a carrier (likely more than one) that provides good service in the places you regularly go, that also offers wifi calling for the one place you are regularly where you already know nobody has good service.
whereskyle
Posts: 1253
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:29 am

Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by whereskyle »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm
jjface wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:07 pm I think the lack of a night mode photography on the SE 2020 can be a big deal. And some people don't want a dated design, smaller screen and lcd. But for most people it is a decent phone for the price especially.

The 12 mini would be good if you prefer a newer design with face unlock and gestures with a larger screen in a smaller body. As well as a slightly better camera system - night mode photography, deep fusion and an ultra wide angle lens. But other than that not really worth it to me. 5g isn't going to change your life. $730 starting cost sounds ridiculous if you ask me. But some want the latest in the smallest body so there you go.

I'd just pick the one that you are drawn to the most. Many keep these for 5+ years so cost isn't too much of a factor at the end of the day. I mean if you keep your phone for 5 years then you are only paying $66 more a year for the iphone 12 mini over the iphone se 2020. Not that much in the scheme of things.
You articulate my dilemma well. The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones. That is a ridiculous amount to me too. However, the less expensive SE 2020 would still cost $1k for two phones. If we keep the phones for 5 years, the price difference comes to $600 over five years for two people (or $5/month per person). It doesn't seem so bad when you consider it that way. Also, for that entire time, we'd be using a better phone. There is also the fact that since the SE has last year's chip, we may not be able to use it for quite as long as we could the 12 mini (maybe we'd replace it after 4 years instead of 5). This tilts things a bit more in favor of the 12 as well.

Thanks for replying to my question. It's taken some mulling but all the previous comments along with your response (especially the part about night mode) have nudged me more toward the 12. My wife was thinking the SE might be the way to go due to the price difference but it seems like once you get past the initial sticker shock, the difference isn't so great when it is spread out over 5 years.
If price really isn't an issue, I'd consider the 12 over the 12 mini. Having recently graduated from a 6s to an 11, I think the bigger screen is a wonderful aspect of the upgrade package. Improvements in a display are limited by the size of the screen. If the $ isn't the problem, get the bigger and better screen and just get the full package.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
Starfish
Posts: 1987
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Starfish »

bo105954027 wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:27 am
crystalbank wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:12 pm iPhone SE (2nd Gen) Pros:
+ Touch ID
+ Cheaper

iPhone SE (2nd Gen) Cons:
- Mediocre Design (Highly subjective)
- Lackluster Camera (Repurposed iPhone 8 sensor)
- Bigger than the original SE

iPhone 12 Mini Pros:
+ Very close to original SE design and size
+ Newer Camera
+ Better screen (OLED)
+ More Color choices
+ 5G (?)

iPhone 12 Mini Cons:
- FaceID only (Subjective)
- Expensive

Personally, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on 5G. It's still a new technology. But I really like the size, camera and design of iPhone 12 Mini so I'd choose the iPhone 12 Mini.
Actually, I prefer SE20's traditional design over 12mini's ugly notch screen.

I've been using SE20 since it came out and very happy with it. I won't turn to 1X mini until Apply finally uses true whole display (please please eliminate the ugly notch) and apply under screen touch ID which is already a mature technology.
You can always go from one design to the other, but not vice-versa. Just tape that notch!
jebmke
Posts: 11399
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Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by jebmke »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:12 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:38 pm
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones.
Over five years, about the price of my haircut (which is free, now that spouse learned how to do it). Less than a year of her haircuts.
Wow! That’s quite a hair budget! I think it would take our family of three about eight years to spend that much on haircuts. I still see you point, though.
< 27 per month
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Starfish
Posts: 1987
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by Starfish »

jebmke wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:38 pm
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones.
Over five years, about the price of my haircut (which is free, now that spouse learned how to do it). Less than a year of her haircuts.
20$/moth for haircuts for a man?
I use to have a 20$ haircut every 4-6 months, but if I had more I would have gone to plenty of 8$ places.
A lot of my haircuts were timed by the oil change, so every 10k miles I would drop the car to the dealer and walk across the street for a haircut.
jebmke
Posts: 11399
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: iPhone SE 2020 or iPhone 12 Mini?

Post by jebmke »

Starfish wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:19 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:38 pm
Ron Ronnerson wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm The 12 mini would cost us $1600 for two phones.
Over five years, about the price of my haircut (which is free, now that spouse learned how to do it). Less than a year of her haircuts.
20$/moth for haircuts for a man?
I use to have a 20$ haircut every 4-6 months, but if I had more I would have gone to plenty of 8$ places.
A lot of my haircuts were timed by the oil change, so every 10k miles I would drop the car to the dealer and walk across the street for a haircut.
25 +tip=1800 over five years
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
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