All in on VTSAX

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Folly
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by Folly »

If you decide to invest in both US and international equities, you need to be comfortable with the fact that one will most likely underperform the other for any given period of time. Stick with your plan, or decide on one that you are more comfortable committing to.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by KlangFool »

Folly wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:27 pm If you decide to invest in both US and international equities, you need to be comfortable with the fact that one will most likely underperform the other for any given period of time. Stick with your plan, or decide on one that you are more comfortable committing to.
Folly,

What do you do if OP had proven that he is one of those people that changes his plan regularly? As per my recommendation, goes with an all-in-one fund.

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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by yogesh »

Target retirement or balanced or lifestrategy if you feel like tinkering multiple times a year.
Mine is no rebalancing ever portfolio catering to spouse needs :-)
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by 1789 »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:23 pm
FYI, I am 100% VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index Fund) and I am very happy with my investment results.
Trader Joe:

I don't know your age or financial situation, but it is a good idea to never have more in stocks than you can afford to lose. (I remember when the Dow plunged 89%).

Best Wishes
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "As we age, we usually have (1) more wealth to protect, (2) less time to recoup severe losses, (3)greater need for investment income, and (4) perhaps an increased nervousness as markets jump around. All four of those factors clearly suggest more bonds as we age."
Hi Taylor

I remember this was the first “lesson learned” in your book :wink:
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"lesson learned"

Post by Taylor Larimore »

1789:

Few things make me happier than knowing someone had a "lesson learned" from my Boglehead books.

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by HuckFinn »

Ours hasn't been a perfect decision but it's been a healthy one so far and one I might recommend to others considering abandoning International entirely. (In essence, it is a patient decline)

Over the last 13 years we've gradually inched International down from about 40% in 2007 to 13.5% today. We've been tempted a few times over the last few years to go all-in on VTSAX (or in our case VTI... the ETF equivalent).

Our present and future strategy is to feed VTI (US) any new contributions.
We are not taking anything out of VXUS (INT'L) and it's dividends reinvest but we do not contribute to it.
The percentage we wish to keep International at is flexible - no more than 15%, no less than 10%.

YR US/INTL
2007 - 60/40
2010 - 66/34
2013 - 70/30
2016 - 80/20
2019 - 85/15

2020 - 86.5/13.5
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

1789 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:49 pm
Taylor Larimore wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:23 pm
FYI, I am 100% VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index Fund) and I am very happy with my investment results.
Trader Joe:

I don't know your age or financial situation, but it is a good idea to never have more in stocks than you can afford to lose. (I remember when the Dow plunged 89%).

Best Wishes
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "As we age, we usually have (1) more wealth to protect, (2) less time to recoup severe losses, (3)greater need for investment income, and (4) perhaps an increased nervousness as markets jump around. All four of those factors clearly suggest more bonds as we age."
Hi Taylor

I remember this was the first “lesson learned” in your book :wink:
I have learned a wealth of investing and important, life, knowledge from Taylor! I will forever be indebted to this great man!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D

You have made an excellent investment decision in my opinion. You will take comfort in knowing that both Jack Bogle and Warren Buffett would agree as discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=188176
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D

The further I continue on our investment journey, the more I realize it is not so much what funds an investor holds but rather if they can sleep at night and stay with the strategy in all markets. Whether that strategy is US only, Global, Small Value, it really does not matter!

Dr. Bernstein, who knows a wealth of investing knowledge, said (as I read recently) that the most important decision is the allocation between stocks and bonds. How one divides up the stock allocation is not nearly as important.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D

I have friends and family who have invested US only forever and have done well in all types of markets and challenges. But they stuck with it and bought in good times and bad. Whether one is US only or Global does not matter.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:19 am Because I do not want to invest money in international stocks.
Agree because they just plain old stink!

International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
* Bell Curve chart where international wins and then US wins (but interestingly never includes a cumulative chart because well.....)
* Diversification (which I am beginning to understand the risk of “over-diversification”.

I think some days if given a choice, I would rather own a technology fund than international.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:27 am
JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D
VTSAX and chill, sounds like a winning strategy! :sharebeer
Disclaimer: I hold 0 international
And your wealth is much higher and future more financially secure!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

All Seasons wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:31 am This sounds like a really imprudent plan motivated by recency bias and performance chasing.
For me, I reviewed 35 years of cumulative data and simply said enough is enough. Our portfolio would be much higher.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by btq96r »

International funds have zero appeal to me in current times, and where I think the road is leading...so I have none. My US funds are well exposed internationally since US based businesses are often global businesses.

No issues with 100% VTSAX if you are comfortable assuming the risk therein. I do believe bonds still have a place to protect net worth as you get older, and/or need to reduce risk. If either of those needs make you stop and think, consider a bond fund at 10-20% of your AA to start out. My personal target AA is 85% (Stock Funds)/10% (Bonds)/5% (Cash).
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by JoMoney »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 pm...
International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
...
I always thought there was a funny-irony in using "Japan" as an example of why you should divest of some of your US holdings to buy more of an international fund predominately invested in Japan.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

ruralavalon wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:36 am
You need an asset allocation that makes you comfortable, not an asset allocation that makes other people comfortable.
THIS IS HUGE! This is my exact thoughts the further I continue on our investment journey. Any strategy is an excellent one if the investor can stick with it. I appreciate investor behavior more and more. It makes zero difference and does not matter what any book, online interview, article, CNBC, or my gosh some random internet poster says if you are up at night or not comfortable.

Another Boglehead, whose posts I enjoy and have learned much from, Ferdinand2014 has written extensively about his simple 100% S&P 500 index fund with “enough” cash. He has been very successful because that strategy aligns with his personality and investor behavior.

This is never ever ever talked about enough!!!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

LiveSimple wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:54 am You plan is good as golden, just "Stay the course"

After reading some books and here, you have come with your plan that you can "stay on" for a long time.

Also you do not need to collect funds, to invest wisely, less is more. Enjoy.
We fell into this trap when we returned to Vanguard years back. We had come from individual stock picking and ended up with literary 15 - 18 funds.

US stocks, mid cap, S&P 500, international, international growth, global funds, GNMA, need Em! Energy and gold, must have! Short term bonds, total Bond, and Treasuries, can’t do without.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

aktx97 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm I'm 31 and just now starting my investing journey. I plan on buying FZROX and nothing else every month for at least the next decade.
You have made an excellent choice. Years down the road you will be very thankful for this. Build cash or bonds too to control risk and keep it simple and effective. International is not needed. Many US companies have international operations and many international companies list on US stock exchanges! I would rather have Jamie Dimon, Sam Zell, Brian Moynihan, and Warren Buffett make capital allocations than me! They do a “little” better job than I could! :D :D
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: "How Much International Stock?"

Post by james8266 »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:12 am Bogleheads:

Stocks in The Three Fund Portfolio are 80% U.S. and 20% International. You can read my reasoning here (it's a compromise):

How Much International Stock? A Suggestion

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom (2010): "I continue to believe it is not necessary to stray too far from home."
This was a good read, thank you.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

HuckFinn wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:39 pm Ours hasn't been a perfect decision but it's been a healthy one so far and one I might recommend to others considering abandoning International entirely. (In essence, it is a patient decline)

Over the last 13 years we've gradually inched International down from about 40% in 2007 to 13.5% today. We've been tempted a few times over the last few years to go all-in on VTSAX (or in our case VTI... the ETF equivalent).

Our present and future strategy is to feed VTI (US) any new contributions.
We are not taking anything out of VXUS (INT'L) and it's dividends reinvest but we do not contribute to it.
The percentage we wish to keep International at is flexible - no more than 15%, no less than 10%.

YR US/INTL
2007 - 60/40
2010 - 66/34
2013 - 70/30
2016 - 80/20
2019 - 85/15

2020 - 86.5/13.5
I am reading this more and more on the forum! That is there are investors who have abandoned and then there is clearly a group of investors who have not yet abandoned but are no longer adding and as a result the fund is decreasing more an more in a well diversified portfolio.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

JoMoney wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:34 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 pm...
International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
...
I always thought there was a funny-irony in using "Japan" as an example of why you should divest of some of your US holdings to buy more of an international fund predominately invested in Japan.
Take a look at Total International Bond Fund that Vanguard is telling investors to allocate 30% of your portfolio! Japan is 17.5% of the fund!!!! Say what? Japan is a zero or it may be a negative interest rate country. The “yield” a shareholder of the fund can expect to get it from the financial engineering of currency hedging.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by 1789 »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:34 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 pm...
International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
...
I always thought there was a funny-irony in using "Japan" as an example of why you should divest of some of your US holdings to buy more of an international fund predominately invested in Japan.
Take a look at Total International Bond Fund that Vanguard is telling investors to allocate 30% of your portfolio! Japan is 17.5% of the fund!!!! Say what? Japan is a zero or it may be a negative interest rate country. The “yield” a shareholder of the fund can expect to get it from the financial engineering of currency hedging.
Maybe China will help increase the return not Japan :oops:
"My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do i want?" (Andrei Tarkovsky)
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by ivgrivchuck »

Compared to majority of people in this forum, I'm tempted to overweight international, because p/e ratio is just so much more attractive.

I'll stick with the market caps though: 55/45 VTI/VXUS, because maybe there are solid reasons for those p/e ratios.
44% VTI | 36% VXUS | 10% I-bonds | 10% EE-bonds
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

1789 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:58 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:34 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 pm...
International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
...
I always thought there was a funny-irony in using "Japan" as an example of why you should divest of some of your US holdings to buy more of an international fund predominately invested in Japan.
Take a look at Total International Bond Fund that Vanguard is telling investors to allocate 30% of your portfolio! Japan is 17.5% of the fund!!!! Say what? Japan is a zero or it may be a negative interest rate country. The “yield” a shareholder of the fund can expect to get it from the financial engineering of currency hedging.
Maybe China will help increase the return not Japan :oops:
Total International Stock Fund:

Japan - 17.2%
China - 11.5%

China is literally an investment in the “party” and state. I recently read that the audited financial statements of Chinese companies are mandated for disclosure on our stocks exchanges, yet that has been circumvented. While I do not want to get into politics, that is concerning when considering investing your capital.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

1789 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:58 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:34 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 pm...
International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
...
I always thought there was a funny-irony in using "Japan" as an example of why you should divest of some of your US holdings to buy more of an international fund predominately invested in Japan.
Take a look at Total International Bond Fund that Vanguard is telling investors to allocate 30% of your portfolio! Japan is 17.5% of the fund!!!! Say what? Japan is a zero or it may be a negative interest rate country. The “yield” a shareholder of the fund can expect to get it from the financial engineering of currency hedging.
Maybe China will help increase the return not Japan :oops:
Honestly it get to a point some days if given a choice I think I would select a tech fund (like my kid online game0 than an international fund.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by 1789 »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:03 pm
1789 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:58 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:34 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:29 pm...
International proponents will often say only three things and it never changes (unfortunately for the argument to include them):
* Japan (there is never any other examples)
...
I always thought there was a funny-irony in using "Japan" as an example of why you should divest of some of your US holdings to buy more of an international fund predominately invested in Japan.
Take a look at Total International Bond Fund that Vanguard is telling investors to allocate 30% of your portfolio! Japan is 17.5% of the fund!!!! Say what? Japan is a zero or it may be a negative interest rate country. The “yield” a shareholder of the fund can expect to get it from the financial engineering of currency hedging.
Maybe China will help increase the return not Japan :oops:
Honestly it get to a point some days if given a choice I think I would select a tech fund (like my kid online game0 than an international fund.
Its not the subject of the this thread but i heard AAPL bonds are safer than American treasury. :twisted:
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by Hiker8 »

lostdog wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:56 am
Hiker8 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:36 pm I think it’s a fine move. Simple and diversified. Most companies in the index are globally diversified as it is. You’ll find a lot of folks here wringing their hands huffing and puffing about not sticking to your IPS. Most have good intentions but some are just stubborn and speaking from their own experience and can’t seem to understand why anybody else might think differently. A little change here and there is fine in my opinion. Sure, maybe it breaks the “rules” a little, but you’re still adhering to index fund investing and are still broadly diversified.
It actually sounds like you're justifying that it's OK to tinker and move in and out of funds to chase performance.
If the end result is to be fully invested in one index fund representing the total stock market, well, there could be worse things.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

1789 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:06 pm
Its not the subject of the this thread but i heard AAPL bonds are safer than American treasury. :twisted:
I would not doubt it. Why is that? Apple has over $200 BILLION in cash and a little over $100 billion in debt? Add on top a $2 TRILLION market capitalization. That is incredible!!!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by TIAX »

l1am wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 am
JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.
What could make you regret your decision?
International doing well for a few years?
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Re: "How Much International Stock?"

Post by finite_difference »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:12 am Bogleheads:

Stocks in The Three Fund Portfolio are 80% U.S. and 20% International. You can read my reasoning here (it's a compromise):

How Much International Stock? A Suggestion

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom (2010): "I continue to believe it is not necessary to stray too far from home."
Like almost everything, I’m with Taylor on this one. For US investors, 20% Intl both adds significant diversification and won’t significantly reduce returns if the US continues to outperform forever. As a result it seems pretty optimal from an efficient frontier perspective.
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Re: "How Much International Stock?"

Post by absolute zero »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:12 am Bogleheads:

Stocks in The Three Fund Portfolio are 80% U.S. and 20% International. You can read my reasoning here (it's a compromise):

How Much International Stock? A Suggestion

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom (2010): "I continue to believe it is not necessary to stray too far from home."
20% international is no longer a strategy that both Vanguard and the late Jack Bogle agree upon. Vanguard now recommends no less than 30% in international.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by pokebowl »

All these posts about going full 100% US/ guaranteed out-performance tell me, perhaps I need to increase my ex-US holdings. :beer
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by kimura king »

All in on VTSAX is probably fine in my view.

One consideration, JL Collins also likes 0% international, but he also likes 20% bonds to, as he puts it, "smooth the ride." You may want 20% in international just because it kind of does smooth the ride since it tracks differently.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by Noobvestor »

JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D
Buy high, sell low as they (don't) say. If you do switch back, well, that'll be a double-mistake. So whatever you do, just stay the course.

And no, I haven't reached the same conclusion - a decade of US outperformance is often followed by the reverse. Buy low, sell high.
"In the absence of clarity, diversification is the only logical strategy" -= Larry Swedroe
l1am
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by l1am »

kimura king wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:17 pm All in on VTSAX is probably fine in my view.

One consideration, JL Collins also likes 0% international, but he also likes 20% bonds to, as he puts it, "smooth the ride." You may want 20% in international just because it kind of does smooth the ride since it tracks differently.
Yup, that's the efficient frontier. 20-30%.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by lostdog »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:23 pm
JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D

You have made an excellent investment decision in my opinion. You will take comfort in knowing that both Jack Bogle and Warren Buffett would agree as discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=188176
Not staying the course and buying high and selling low. But if you do it in the name of Jack and Warren, it's ok. :oops:
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JoMoney
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by JoMoney »

l1am wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:59 am
kimura king wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:17 pm All in on VTSAX is probably fine in my view.

One consideration, JL Collins also likes 0% international, but he also likes 20% bonds to, as he puts it, "smooth the ride." You may want 20% in international just because it kind of does smooth the ride since it tracks differently.
Yup, that's the efficient frontier. 20-30%.
The 'efficient frontier' moves around all over the place over different time periods. It's also the case that the difference between the optimal and sub-optimal allocations is a negligible amount most would never notice without measuring and zooming way in on a graph.
In recent years the optimal spot on the EF has been 0 international.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by 7eight9 »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:30 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:27 am
JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D
VTSAX and chill, sounds like a winning strategy! :sharebeer
Disclaimer: I hold 0 international
And your wealth is much higher and future more financially secure!
You have a crystal ball? :happy
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by aj76er »

When investing globally in a fund like VT you’re investing in the largest, most successful businesses in the world. So it’s really a story of trying to capture the best companies no matter where they happen to domicile.

For example, in the top 10 holdings of VT, 8 of the companies are U.S. domiciled while 2 are from China. Of the two from China, over the past five years:

BABA had a CAGR of 19.82%
TENCENT had a CAGR of 31.05%

Over the same time span the S&P 500 had a CAGR of 10.99%

So, I’m pleased with the returns I’ve gotten from these companies. Market weighting (when held over long time periods) is a pretty darn good filter for identifying great companies, no matter where they reside. By only holding U.S. companies you are actively managing your portfolio. In general, there’s no problem with that, as long as you recognize the potential pitfalls of doing so.
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by frugalor »

ruralavalon wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:47 pm
anthonyphamy wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:39 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:35 pm
aktx97 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm I'm 31 and just now starting my investing journey. I plan on buying FZROX and nothing else every month for at least the next decade.
FYI in a taxable account FZROX has the potential to be less tax effcient than an ETF. You might consider buying an ETF (VTI or ITOT) instead.
How come an ETF would be more tax efficient? I currently hold both VTSAX and VTIAX in my taxable account. Thank you!
At Vanguard the ETF is just a share class of the mutual fund, and the mutual fund is just as tax-efficient a the ETF.

That unique fund structure doesn't exist at other fund companies, and in general an ETF will be more tax-efficient than a regular mutual fund.

Wiki article, ETFs vs mutual funds, "Tax-efficiency" .
When I compare VTSAX and VTI on yahoo finance chart, they look nearly identical. If VTI distributes less in capital gains to me for tax purposes, does it mean I am actually getting less from VTI?
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by ruralavalon »

frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:40 am
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:47 pm
anthonyphamy wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:39 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:35 pm
aktx97 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm I'm 31 and just now starting my investing journey. I plan on buying FZROX and nothing else every month for at least the next decade.
FYI in a taxable account FZROX has the potential to be less tax effcient than an ETF. You might consider buying an ETF (VTI or ITOT) instead.
How come an ETF would be more tax efficient? I currently hold both VTSAX and VTIAX in my taxable account. Thank you!
At Vanguard the ETF is just a share class of the mutual fund, and the mutual fund is just as tax-efficient a the ETF.

That unique fund structure doesn't exist at other fund companies, and in general an ETF will be more tax-efficient than a regular mutual fund.

Wiki article, ETFs vs mutual funds, "Tax-efficiency" .
When I compare VTSAX and VTI on yahoo finance chart, they look nearly identical. If VTI distributes less in capital gains to me for tax purposes, does it mean I am actually getting less from VTI?
No.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
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anon_investor
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by anon_investor »

frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:40 am
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:47 pm
anthonyphamy wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:39 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:35 pm
aktx97 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm I'm 31 and just now starting my investing journey. I plan on buying FZROX and nothing else every month for at least the next decade.
FYI in a taxable account FZROX has the potential to be less tax effcient than an ETF. You might consider buying an ETF (VTI or ITOT) instead.
How come an ETF would be more tax efficient? I currently hold both VTSAX and VTIAX in my taxable account. Thank you!
At Vanguard the ETF is just a share class of the mutual fund, and the mutual fund is just as tax-efficient a the ETF.

That unique fund structure doesn't exist at other fund companies, and in general an ETF will be more tax-efficient than a regular mutual fund.

Wiki article, ETFs vs mutual funds, "Tax-efficiency" .
When I compare VTSAX and VTI on yahoo finance chart, they look nearly identical. If VTI distributes less in capital gains to me for tax purposes, does it mean I am actually getting less from VTI?
VTSAX has no capital gains distributions... so there is no difference.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by Pushkin »

I’m still quite new, I only have about $25K invested. I’ve never been in international because I don’t understand it. I’m 90/10, and my 90 is all VTSAX in my Ruth, and VOO in my taxable.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

lostdog wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:14 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:23 pm
JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am At one point in time I held all VT or 50/50 us/international. I have never felt totally comfortable with international equities. At the beginning of this year I dropped my exposure to under 25%. Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now. I think this plan is good enough, and beautifully simple. When I am older I will add some fixed income, either cds or BND. Right now just some cash and the rest in VTSAX.

Have any of you reached the same conclusion?

I know many disagree and that is OK with me. I just sold some deeply discounted shares in VXUS for you to pick up and get rich on.

If I regret my decision and decide to switch back, I will come here and eat crow with another update.

John D

You have made an excellent investment decision in my opinion. You will take comfort in knowing that both Jack Bogle and Warren Buffett would agree as discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=188176
Not staying the course and buying high and selling low. But if you do it in the name of Jack and Warren, it's ok. :oops:
Well said! I agree with you that the Two Fund Portfolio works! Own Total Stock and the S&P 500 at the lowest course, stick with it, and you will be fine. I did read you had a simple Balanced Index or Two Fund Portfolio as well.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by frugalor »

I am a new member here and I don't know how to start a new topic. So pardon me if it seems like I am hijacking this thread.

Is it more financial prudent to keep a large chunk of cash in the bank or to invest all of it in VTSAX tomorrow? Seeing the market is at historical height.
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by Taylor Larimore »

frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pm I am a new member here and I don't know how to start a new topic. So pardon me if it seems like I am hijacking this thread.

Is it more financial prudent to keep a large chunk of cash in the bank or to invest all of it in VTSAX tomorrow? Seeing the market is at historical height.
frugalor:

Welcome to the Bogleheads Forum!

I would like to suggest that you link to our Bogleheads Wiki, "Getting Started." This is the link:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by abuss368 »

aj76er wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:34 am When investing globally in a fund like VT you’re investing in the largest, most successful businesses in the world. So it’s really a story of trying to capture the best companies no matter where they happen to domicile.

For example, in the top 10 holdings of VT, 8 of the companies are U.S. domiciled while 2 are from China. Of the two from China, over the past five years:

BABA had a CAGR of 19.82%
TENCENT had a CAGR of 31.05%

Over the same time span the S&P 500 had a CAGR of 10.99%

So, I’m pleased with the returns I’ve gotten from these companies. Market weighting (when held over long time periods) is a pretty darn good filter for identifying great companies, no matter where they reside. By only holding U.S. companies you are actively managing your portfolio. In general, there’s no problem with that, as long as you recognize the potential pitfalls of doing so.
No doubt. The problem is those two Chinese companies are drowned out by the other 7,000 companies in the index. That does not move the needle.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by JnyVuko »

JohnDindex wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am Recently I dropped it to Zero. I feel much better now.

John D
If one feels better about their investments then they should sleep better at night. I hold 0 in international. I never felt comfortable with it. I feel comfortable with my decision, regardless of what others may say. I have to live with it and I sleep well at night with this approach. That's what matters the most to me. It seems like your doing fine.

All the best to you...
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by ruralavalon »

Welcome to the forum :) .

frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pm I am a new member here and I don't know how to start a new topic. So pardon me if it seems like I am hijacking this thread.
Click on "board index", then pick a forum such as "personal investments"

Then on the on that forum use the "new topic" button.


frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pmIs it more financial prudent to keep a large chunk of cash in the bank or to invest all of it in VTSAX tomorrow? Seeing the market is at historical height.
What sort of account will you be using (an IRA, 401k, taxable brokerage account, something else)? How large is this chunk of cash?

Once you have decided on the funds to use, it's often best to invest your "large chunk of cash" all at one. All at once has worked out best about 2/3 of the time.

"Lump sum investing will always carry a higher expected return, because it immediately moves your funds from asset classes with lower expected returns to ones with higher expected returns. Note that higher expected returns do not guarantee that your actual returns will be higher. According to an investopedia article,[5] studies indicate that lump sum investing has produced higher returns 66% of the time." Wiki article , Dollar-cost averaging, "dollar cost averaging versus lump sum".
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
frugalor
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Re: All in on VTSAX

Post by frugalor »

ruralavalon wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:01 pm Welcome to the forum :) .

frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pm I am a new member here and I don't know how to start a new topic. So pardon me if it seems like I am hijacking this thread.
Click on "board index", then pick a forum such as "personal investments"

Then on the on that forum use the "new topic" button.


frugalor wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pmIs it more financial prudent to keep a large chunk of cash in the bank or to invest all of it in VTSAX tomorrow? Seeing the market is at historical height.
What sort of account will you be using (an IRA, 401k, taxable brokerage account, something else)? How large is this chunk of cash?

Once you have decided on the funds to use, it's often best to invest your "large chunk of cash" all at one. All at once has worked out best about 2/3 of the time.

"Lump sum investing will always carry a higher expected return, because it immediately moves your funds from asset classes with lower expected returns to ones with higher expected returns. Note that higher expected returns do not guarantee that your actual returns will be higher. According to an investopedia article,[5] studies indicate that lump sum investing has produced higher returns 66% of the time." Wiki article , Dollar-cost averaging, "dollar cost averaging versus lump sum".
Thank you! I have figured out how to add a topic now :)

I didn't know there was a study about lump sum vs dollar cost average. I keep hearing people recommending dollar cost average, but in reality, it hasn't served me well. I have described this in my response in this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=328078&p=5554571#p5554571

At this point I have about 300K I need to deploy. It will be in a regular taxable trading account.
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