Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

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NYCaviator
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Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

Recently opened an account at a small regional bank. They have great service, and good rates, but I'm worried about their tech and security. They outsource their online banking to some firm called Netteller. From what I understand, Netteller provides IT solutions to banks (including online banking platforms). The problem is, there is no two factor authentication for their online portal. It's just a username and password. That worries me a bit.

Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.

Am I being overly worried, or is this common in smaller banks? It just seems like in 2020 two factor authentication should be standard as is a 24/7 number to report stolen cards.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by 123 »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm ...Am I being overly worried...
You are not being overly worried. I would severely limit the amount of my assets I would hold in such an environment. Even though the accounts are FDIC insured that doesn't really help provide timely restoration of funds if there is a "hacking". Who needs another headache?

They may be fine for CDs but if you hold a checking account with significant funds for bill pay or whatever it doesn't seem the ideal environment.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by TomatoTomahto »

When we moved to this rural town, we opened accounts at a small bank. After an online deposit “disappeared” (which I still had the paper copy of, so fixable), I decided to keep lower balances in the accounts.

We have legacy accounts at BoA and TDbank and that’s where we do the majority of our banking.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I would ditch the debit card. Use a rewards credit card.

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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by mpsz »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.
For the 9-5 hours, is that the bank's main number or the specific phone number printed on your debit card? Sometimes that is a different phone number which will be staffed 24/7 (likely by a service provider who operates some portion of the debit card system for the bank).
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

mpsz wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.
For the 9-5 hours, is that the bank's main number or the specific phone number printed on your debit card? Sometimes that is a different phone number which will be staffed 24/7 (likely by a service provider who operates some portion of the debit card system for the bank).
Nope! That’s the only number on the card and the only number on their website. Maybe you can call MasterCard directly? It just seems odd. What happens if your card gets stolen on Friday at 6. Do you wait until Monday at 9 when your account is probably empty?
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 pm I would ditch the debit card. Use a rewards credit card.

Broken Man 1999
I only use a credit card but I carry my debit card because sometimes you need cash in a pinch, ie farmers market or something like that. I rarely carried cash, and carry none since the pandemic started but I find myself occasionally being in a situation where you need cash.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by HawkeyePierce »

Just close the account and move on.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by Stinky »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 pm I would ditch the debit card. Use a rewards credit card.
I would ditch the whole bank.

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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:45 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 pm I would ditch the debit card. Use a rewards credit card.

Broken Man 1999
I only use a credit card but I carry my debit card because sometimes you need cash in a pinch, ie farmers market or something like that. I rarely carried cash, and carry none since the pandemic started but I find myself occasionally being in a situation where you need cash.
Thus far I have never used a debit card. Instead, the credit unions I use have provided me with an ATM-only card. Periodically they replace cards, and send me a combo ATM/debit card. I destroy the new card, and call them to reissue an ATM-only card.

Perhaps your bank can do the same thing for you.

Good luck!

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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by jebmke »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:45 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 pm I would ditch the debit card. Use a rewards credit card.

Broken Man 1999
I only use a credit card but I carry my debit card because sometimes you need cash in a pinch, ie farmers market or something like that. I rarely carried cash, and carry none since the pandemic started but I find myself occasionally being in a situation where you need cash.
Sounds like what you need is an ATM card. Some banks will issue ATM cards with no debit feature.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by mpsz »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:44 pm Nope! That’s the only number on the card and the only number on their website. Maybe you can call MasterCard directly? It just seems odd. What happens if your card gets stolen on Friday at 6. Do you wait until Monday at 9 when your account is probably empty?
It sounds like maybe you could call MasterCard https://sea.mastercard.com/en-region-se ... urity.html (scroll all the way to the orange banner at the very bottom). I have not tried this, I don't know if they would just direct you back to your bank or could actually suspend your card.

I'd suggest switching banks anyway. This shows they haven't really given any thought to security and preventing fraud.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by softwaregeek »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Recently opened an account at a small regional bank. They have great service, and good rates, but I'm worried about their tech and security. They outsource their online banking to some firm called Netteller. From what I understand, Netteller provides IT solutions to banks (including online banking platforms). The problem is, there is no two factor authentication for their online portal. It's just a username and password. That worries me a bit.

Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.

Am I being overly worried, or is this common in smaller banks? It just seems like in 2020 two factor authentication should be standard as is a 24/7 number to report stolen cards.
Netteller is a product of JHI. Believe it or not, virtually every bank except possibly the giant megabanks runs software from one of five vendors. JHI is one of the big four and is used by hundreds if not thousands of banks. 2FA is a module of this and even the smallest bank can get it if they want. That's why outside of the mega-four all of the banks have pretty much the same features. For what its' worth, I don't think BofA has 24 hour service either.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

softwaregeek wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Recently opened an account at a small regional bank. They have great service, and good rates, but I'm worried about their tech and security. They outsource their online banking to some firm called Netteller. From what I understand, Netteller provides IT solutions to banks (including online banking platforms). The problem is, there is no two factor authentication for their online portal. It's just a username and password. That worries me a bit.

Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.

Am I being overly worried, or is this common in smaller banks? It just seems like in 2020 two factor authentication should be standard as is a 24/7 number to report stolen cards.
Netteller is a product of JHI. Believe it or not, virtually every bank except possibly the giant megabanks runs software from one of five vendors. JHI is one of the big four and is used by hundreds if not thousands of banks. 2FA is a module of this and even the smallest bank can get it if they want. That's why outside of the mega-four all of the banks have pretty much the same features. For what its' worth, I don't think BofA has 24 hour service either.
That is what is odd. This bank has three "security questions" if you want to change your password online, and there is 2FA to use the mobile app, but nothing for the website. if someone had your password, they are in.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by jebmke »

NYCaviator wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:35 am That is what is odd. This bank has three "security questions" if you want to change your password online, and there is 2FA to use the mobile app, but nothing for the website. if someone had your password, they are in.
Good reason to shop elsewhere. Even in my small town there are banks, mostly regional or local on every block, and every small shopping center. I’ve never figured out how they all survive.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by inverter »

I work in technology and just moved some of my money to an African American owned bank to support social justice in my community. Same thing... older tech/interface where there is no 2FA, just username, password and 3 security questions.

It sounds like your bank is using the same system. My suggestion would be to make the 3 security questions your 2FA basically. Uncheck the “remember this computer” and use 1Password or LastPass to make that answer 32 characters.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

inverter wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:52 am I work in technology and just moved some of my money to an African American owned bank to support social justice in my community. Same thing... older tech/interface where there is no 2FA, just username, password and 3 security questions.

It sounds like your bank is using the same system. My suggestion would be to make the 3 security questions your 2FA basically. Uncheck the “remember this computer” and use 1Password or LastPass to make that answer 32 characters.
There isn't even an option on my bank's website to remember or not remember the computer. And I checked again and there is only one security question. According to the website, the only time it will require the security question is if it suspects "unauthorized activity" or I want to change my password. That makes me incredibly uncomfortable. If someone was able to get the password there is nothing preventing them from emptying the account.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by inverter »

Oof. Can you contact the bank and express your concerns?
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by softwaregeek »

NYCaviator wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:35 am
softwaregeek wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Recently opened an account at a small regional bank. They have great service, and good rates, but I'm worried about their tech and security. They outsource their online banking to some firm called Netteller. From what I understand, Netteller provides IT solutions to banks (including online banking platforms). The problem is, there is no two factor authentication for their online portal. It's just a username and password. That worries me a bit.

Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.

Am I being overly worried, or is this common in smaller banks? It just seems like in 2020 two factor authentication should be standard as is a 24/7 number to report stolen cards.
Netteller is a product of JHI. Believe it or not, virtually every bank except possibly the giant megabanks runs software from one of five vendors. JHI is one of the big four and is used by hundreds if not thousands of banks. 2FA is a module of this and even the smallest bank can get it if they want. That's why outside of the mega-four all of the banks have pretty much the same features. For what its' worth, I don't think BofA has 24 hour service either.
That is what is odd. This bank has three "security questions" if you want to change your password online, and there is 2FA to use the mobile app, but nothing for the website. if someone had your password, they are in.
Netteller, as do many banks, integrates with Symantec physical tokens. It may be a cost issue for the bank. Smaller banks are getting squeezed by the increasing cost of technology. Virtually every feature is available for even the smallest bank from the big providers, but every feature is an additional module that costs extra.

That's how every community bank and credit union can offer online services. You didn't think your local 10 banch bank has a software engineering staff, did you?

Edit: for that matter, even the larger banks are getting squeezed. One of the motivations for the Suntrust/BBT merger was increasing software and IT costs. And each of those banks had well over a thousand branches.
Last edited by softwaregeek on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by JoMoney »

It is odd that there is no 24/7 security. My 'small' credit union uses the banks number on their ATM cards, but after hours there's an option to forward to a 24hr call-center to report loss/theft of a card or other fraud alert situations.

Personally, I don't think I would mind what you describe if it was a personal consumer account that would otherwise be protected by things like 'The Electronic Fund Transfer Act' and 'Fair Credit Billing Act'.
If it was a commercial/business account (which don't have the same required protections under the law) I might be concerned enough to move to a different bank.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

JoMoney wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:42 am It is odd that there is no 24/7 security. My 'small' credit union uses the banks number on their ATM cards, but after hours there's an option to forward to a 24hr call-center to report loss/theft of a card or other fraud alert situations.

Personally, I don't think I would mind what you describe if it was a personal consumer account that would otherwise be protected by things like 'The Electronic Fund Transfer Act' and 'Fair Credit Billing Act'.
If it was a commercial/business account (which don't have the same required protections under the law) I might be concerned enough to move to a different bank.
It is odd. You call their local number and it rings and then goes to a voicemail that says leave a message or call back during regular business hours. No option for a 24/7 card center or anything. The bank's account minimums and services clearly indicate they target folks who keep more money in their accounts, which makes their lax security even more concerning.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by anon_investor »

NYCaviator wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:17 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:42 am It is odd that there is no 24/7 security. My 'small' credit union uses the banks number on their ATM cards, but after hours there's an option to forward to a 24hr call-center to report loss/theft of a card or other fraud alert situations.

Personally, I don't think I would mind what you describe if it was a personal consumer account that would otherwise be protected by things like 'The Electronic Fund Transfer Act' and 'Fair Credit Billing Act'.
If it was a commercial/business account (which don't have the same required protections under the law) I might be concerned enough to move to a different bank.
It is odd. You call their local number and it rings and then goes to a voicemail that says leave a message or call back during regular business hours. No option for a 24/7 card center or anything. The bank's account minimums and services clearly indicate they target folks who keep more money in their accounts, which makes their lax security even more concerning.
I would bail on this bank. You know you can get a free Ally Bank online checking account and use their ATM, lots of free ones and reimbursement of up to $10/mo in third party fees. Ally Bank has all the modern security features. They even have a card control feature, where you can disable to debit card or even make it only work as an ATM.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by msi »

The lack of 2FA and 24/7 support would be dealbreakers for me.

I'd also be wondering what else the bank isn't doing properly.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by jebmke »

msi wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:30 am The lack of 2FA and 24/7 support would be dealbreakers for me.

I'd also be wondering what else the bank isn't doing properly.
Unless it is a very small town, it would seem unlikely that there isn't a better local alternative.
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by NYCaviator »

softwaregeek wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:35 am
NYCaviator wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:35 am
softwaregeek wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Recently opened an account at a small regional bank. They have great service, and good rates, but I'm worried about their tech and security. They outsource their online banking to some firm called Netteller. From what I understand, Netteller provides IT solutions to banks (including online banking platforms). The problem is, there is no two factor authentication for their online portal. It's just a username and password. That worries me a bit.

Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.

Am I being overly worried, or is this common in smaller banks? It just seems like in 2020 two factor authentication should be standard as is a 24/7 number to report stolen cards.
Netteller is a product of JHI. Believe it or not, virtually every bank except possibly the giant megabanks runs software from one of five vendors. JHI is one of the big four and is used by hundreds if not thousands of banks. 2FA is a module of this and even the smallest bank can get it if they want. That's why outside of the mega-four all of the banks have pretty much the same features. For what its' worth, I don't think BofA has 24 hour service either.
That is what is odd. This bank has three "security questions" if you want to change your password online, and there is 2FA to use the mobile app, but nothing for the website. if someone had your password, they are in.
Netteller, as do many banks, integrates with Symantec physical tokens. It may be a cost issue for the bank. Smaller banks are getting squeezed by the increasing cost of technology. Virtually every feature is available for even the smallest bank from the big providers, but every feature is an additional module that costs extra.

That's how every community bank and credit union can offer online services. You didn't think your local 10 banch bank has a software engineering staff, did you?

Edit: for that matter, even the larger banks are getting squeezed. One of the motivations for the Suntrust/BBT merger was increasing software and IT costs. And each of those banks had well over a thousand branches.
I am still trying to figure this out because I like my bank but this lack of 2FA worries me. I looked on the NetTeller website, and it doesn't mention anything about 2FA. It says it has "multi factor" authentication which is basically some behind the scenes security monitoring, but it doesn't say anything about text or email 2FA. basically you enter a username, it goes to another page with a photo you choose (to make sure it isn't fishing), you type a password, and it goes to your account.

In reality, is the lack of 2FA that big of a deal? I suppose someone could log in and find my account numbers, but they couldn't move money to another account without me knowing (any transfers get an email alert). Does anyone have a bank that uses the NetTeller software that has text or email 2FA?
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by anon_investor »

NYCaviator wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:00 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:35 am
NYCaviator wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:35 am
softwaregeek wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm Recently opened an account at a small regional bank. They have great service, and good rates, but I'm worried about their tech and security. They outsource their online banking to some firm called Netteller. From what I understand, Netteller provides IT solutions to banks (including online banking platforms). The problem is, there is no two factor authentication for their online portal. It's just a username and password. That worries me a bit.

Also, they only have 9-5 hours, and if a debit card is stolen, there is no 24/7 number to call and get it deactivated. I don't know if you can call Mastercard directly to deactivate the card, but that is concerning.

Am I being overly worried, or is this common in smaller banks? It just seems like in 2020 two factor authentication should be standard as is a 24/7 number to report stolen cards.
Netteller is a product of JHI. Believe it or not, virtually every bank except possibly the giant megabanks runs software from one of five vendors. JHI is one of the big four and is used by hundreds if not thousands of banks. 2FA is a module of this and even the smallest bank can get it if they want. That's why outside of the mega-four all of the banks have pretty much the same features. For what its' worth, I don't think BofA has 24 hour service either.
That is what is odd. This bank has three "security questions" if you want to change your password online, and there is 2FA to use the mobile app, but nothing for the website. if someone had your password, they are in.
Netteller, as do many banks, integrates with Symantec physical tokens. It may be a cost issue for the bank. Smaller banks are getting squeezed by the increasing cost of technology. Virtually every feature is available for even the smallest bank from the big providers, but every feature is an additional module that costs extra.

That's how every community bank and credit union can offer online services. You didn't think your local 10 banch bank has a software engineering staff, did you?

Edit: for that matter, even the larger banks are getting squeezed. One of the motivations for the Suntrust/BBT merger was increasing software and IT costs. And each of those banks had well over a thousand branches.
I am still trying to figure this out because I like my bank but this lack of 2FA worries me. I looked on the NetTeller website, and it doesn't mention anything about 2FA. It says it has "multi factor" authentication which is basically some behind the scenes security monitoring, but it doesn't say anything about text or email 2FA. basically you enter a username, it goes to another page with a photo you choose (to make sure it isn't fishing), you type a password, and it goes to your account.

In reality, is the lack of 2FA that big of a deal? I suppose someone could log in and find my account numbers, but they couldn't move money to another account without me knowing (any transfers get an email alert). Does anyone have a bank that uses the NetTeller software that has text or email 2FA?
I think it is a pretty big deal. Would you rather have the security measures in place to prevent someone stealing your money, or being alerted that it has happened and having to deal with it after the fact?
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Re: Small Bank Technology - No 2FA and 24/7 Support

Post by sam1838 »

Maybe it's because I came of age when bank apps and websites came on the scene, but I've never seen the point of a small bank. The accounts I've opened at them for bonuses have abysmal websites, terrible apps, and as you've noticed, lack basic features. Just pick a good national bank and call it a day.
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