Refinance Mega Thread

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themesrob
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by themesrob »

We are currently in process with Consumer Direct. ~$425k loan on our $620k primary residence, 790+ credit scores. We had sought estimates via the Costco lender program a couple months ago, which were okay but not enough of an improvement to get us to take action. After catching up on this thread in early September, I sent a couple emails back to the most competitive offerors from before to see if things had improved.

ConsumerDirect offered:
30 year, 2.75%, $2,225 lender credits
~$1980 in loan costs (they waived survey and appraisal, so it's basically just title insurance, credit check, and the $350 origination fee)
~$2500 in taxes and govt fees (Florida)
plus prepaids

It will still be a substantial out-of-pocket payment, but we will recover it fairly quickly with the savings off our last refi to 3.75%. The loan officer gave us an estimated closing date of 11/1, though, with a lock through 11/6. We submitted our documents right away, so hopefully we close by that date. I was pretty impressed with their document/e-sign portal, actually. And the loan officer has been responsive.
Last edited by themesrob on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ThreeBears
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ThreeBears »

We "closed" yesterday. We signed all the documents. I have not received the "all clear." But, I think i will soon.

15 year, 2.675% and they paid me $1,000 to close.

They actually increased by $$ by over $400 from the initial offer. I didn't even have to negotiate it.

The LE showed they'd give me $600. I'm pretty impressed!

Loan Depot was the lender. The initial offer they gave was pretty bad. But, i competed them against Lenderfi, and the second offer was amazing.

Yes, I had locked the rate. I have no idea why they increased the lender credit by over $400.

I locked around July 15th. so, the overall process took a while.
Last edited by ThreeBears on Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
hgsavita
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by hgsavita »

ThreeBears wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 pm We "closed" yesterday. We signed all the documents. I have not received the "all clear." But, I think i will soon.

15 year, 2.675% and they paid me $1,000 to close.

They actually increased by $$ by over $400 from the initial offer. I didn't even have to negotiate it.

The LE showed they'd give me $600. I'm pretty impressed!
Who is lender and when did you lock the rate ?
ThreeBears
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ThreeBears »

I updated my initial post with answers. good question.
atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

After 3 weeks of wait, was contacted by Loan Cabin over the phone to go over available rates & closing costs. The agent locked 2.5% 30Yr for $26 closing cost. I just received the LE, and am surprised to see the loan amount is 2K more than the outstanding balance on my current mortgage.

That doesn't sound right - this is more like no cash refi. Adding closing costs to the loan principal is sketchy. Ive scanned the forum, but saw no one else mention this about LC. Am i the only one or did any of you notice the loan amount increase?
e5116
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by e5116 »

atx1202 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:48 pm After 3 weeks of wait, was contacted by Loan Cabin over the phone to go over available rates & closing costs. The agent locked 2.5% 30Yr for $26 closing cost. I just received the LE, and am surprised to see the loan amount is 2K more than the outstanding balance on my current mortgage.

That doesn't sound right - this is more like no cash refi. Adding closing costs to the loan principal is sketchy. Ive scanned the forum, but saw no one else mention this about LC. Am i the only one or did any of you notice the loan amount increase?
This has been covered before. It's probably stated as "Loan amount to be financed" at the bottom of your loan estimate. Pretty standard for them to include that at times, but you should be able to ask them to align the two loan amounts. You'll simply have to bring more money to close for prepaids and the like. But it's likely not some hidden fee or trying to sneak in a larger mortgage or something like that. Your final CD should make sure everything ticks and ties.
ThreeBears
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ThreeBears »

atx1202 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:48 pm After 3 weeks of wait, was contacted by Loan Cabin over the phone to go over available rates & closing costs. The agent locked 2.5% 30Yr for $26 closing cost. I just received the LE, and am surprised to see the loan amount is 2K more than the outstanding balance on my current mortgage.

That doesn't sound right - this is more like no cash refi. Adding closing costs to the loan principal is sketchy. Ive scanned the forum, but saw no one else mention this about LC. Am i the only one or did any of you notice the loan amount increase?
My mortgage was no cost and also paid me $1,000. Despite that, my mortgage increased about $3,000. Why?

Well, a lot of money moves around. At closing, they may pay property taxes early. They need to re-stock your escrow. And you'll have to wait to get the escrow money returned from your prior bank. Also, you may over-pay on your pay-off and receive a refund.

Overall, our mortgage increased $3,000 but we will receive $4,000 in reimbursements. If it bothers me, I can use that cash to immediately pay down my new mortgage. Does that make sense?

FYI - my transaction was NOT considered a cash out, even though it did cash out a minimal amount.
InvestDoc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

traveler00 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:01 pm
LandOLakes wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:31 pm Would love the group's input on my situation -- I have a 30-year mortgage at 3.5% (about 27 3/4 years and $530K in principal to go). I got an offer from Better.com because all I'd heard about low rates. For the existing mortgage, they couldn't do much better than my current rate, which I didn't see much point in pursuing. However, if we put in $20K cash to get the loan balance below the conforming limit, the options seem more attractive.

Here is what they are currently offering me for a 30-year $510K loan:

2.875% -$3,180 credits
2.75% -$189 credits
2.625% +$3,440 points
2.5% +6,303 points

The 2.75% offer is intriguing. If I'm understanding it correctly, if I'm willing to put up $20K in extra home equity, I can lower my interest rate by 0.75% for free (actually, for $189 in my pocket), which would reduce my monthly payment by about $420 including the reduced principal.It would stretch the loan term out a bit and also the savings would be slightly less because of the mortgage interest deduction, but that still feels like a good return for just moving $20K on the balance sheet.

Better is giving me a bit of a hard sell to lock before Monday when the FHA fee goes into effect. However, I have some cash lying around and wouldn't need to deplete my emergency fund to do this. Also, to lock just requires a $550 deposit which is refundable if I don't go forward. So seems like it might be worth pulling the trigger just to preserve the option.

Am I missing anything? Am I being silly by not shopping around more?

Thanks in advance!
Check with Lenderfi instead. I have noticed that their rates on balances above $510k are very competitive and you probably won't need to pay down your loan. Everyone's situation is different. My friend locked in with them today ($590k loan balance) at 2.75% @ $0 cost (all fees paid via a lender credit.) I locked in with them about 2 weeks ago at 2.625% $0 cost with a similar loan balance.
Were the rates on the website higher than what they offered you by phone? Seems like a lot of people here are getting lower rates once they call or apply.

Their website matches the terms I’m getting in the refi I’m processing now but I wonder if they’d be able to beat that deal if their published rates run higher than what they offer once you apply.
dstac
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dstac »

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It is a real blessing to tap the wealth and variety of experiences here. To add some data points, I wanted to share a few details on a couple of refis we just went through. Credit scores 780+

AIMLoan:
Investment Condo, Refi-Cash Out to 74% LTV
30yr @ 3.625% w/ A+B+C-Lender Credit of about 0.9% of total loan amount
Applied 6/22
Funded 9/15
They were a little all over the place, but kept working it until the last minute as seems to be the case on these. The initial person I was working with also had a medical issue (non-covid) that suddenly took her completely out of the picture about 3wks in. Oh, and an appraiser that went MIA needing another appraisal. Yeah, this whole things was goofy, but finally done. Wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd do it again for a good rate.

Of note, I actually started with another company, Lending.com, but that went sideways after the LE costs suddenly went up without a mention from the person working the file. Quickly dumped them.

Better
Primary Residence, Straight Refi at <50% LTV
30yr @ 2.875 w/ A+B+C of 0.4% of total loan amount and lender credit of 0.8% of total loan amount, so came out ahead. (Also this was under the Better/AMEX offer, so waiting for another $2500 credit on top of this.)
Applied 7/23
Funded 9/4
I really liked the task system and online setup. Though when it came down to the final days, there was again a bit of push to actually get things lined up. Would definitely work with them again.

Thanks again to all; I hope this helps future rate shoppers. (If there are specific Qs, please PM me)
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

atx1202 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:48 pm After 3 weeks of wait, was contacted by Loan Cabin over the phone to go over available rates & closing costs. The agent locked 2.5% 30Yr for $26 closing cost. I just received the LE, and am surprised to see the loan amount is 2K more than the outstanding balance on my current mortgage.

That doesn't sound right - this is more like no cash refi. Adding closing costs to the loan principal is sketchy. Ive scanned the forum, but saw no one else mention this about LC. Am i the only one or did any of you notice the loan amount increase?
The devil is in the details. We would need the numbers in Sections A, B, C, E and any credits listed in J to give you an informed answer and would also need the "payoff amount" from the loan estimate to give you a complete answer.
need403bhelp
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by need403bhelp »

2quiker wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:40 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:03 pm
2quiker wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:51 pm I have also had issues with Better not wanting to give out LE's. Honestly I would probably try to go with another lender. I wouldn't recommend them at all the loan person was kind of sketchy with me, avoid them.
I’m confused by this statement. Better’s system is automated. You don’t need to request an LE from them, you just click the link and download it right off your portal.
After receiving a count offer from Watermark I emailed Better the Watermarks LE. When I first sent Better Watermarks LE they just responded by email that they would be it by $100 I then asked for an LE showing that counter offer showing the $100. They didn't provide an LE instead emailed me a screen shot of the LE they also responded by saying that one
'This would be the final offer'. Watermark was the lender who closed my app when I requested a new LE because I was going to us it to send to Better.
You can always get the full LE on better.com by logging in and click on the link for Loan Estimate.

I think this link only disappears after you sign your closing disclosure.
catvado
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by catvado »

Hoping someone can help explain the Cash to Close on my Closing Disclosure from LF (I'm using rounded numbers). My closing costs are $3k, which is entirely prepaids and escrow, F+G. That all makes sense when I look at my current escrow amount and 10/1 property tax bill. The lender credit equaled A+B+C+E, so I'm not paying anything there.

And yet, my Cash to Close is $5k. The "Loan Amount" is listed as the correct loan amount, but the "Total Payoffs and Payments" is my loan amount plus $2k, so I assume this is where the difference comes from (the difference matches exactly, even with non-rounded numbers). The "Payoffs and Payments" table lists my current lender and this higher amount, with no additional information.

I've also emailed LF to ask, but why might this difference come about? Is my current lender charging some additional fee that's showing up here? Is there any room to negotiate this with LF?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

catvado wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:24 pm The "Loan Amount" is listed as the correct loan amount, but the "Total Payoffs and Payments" is my loan amount plus $2k, so I assume this is where the difference comes from (the difference matches exactly, even with non-rounded numbers). The "Payoffs and Payments" table lists my current lender and this higher amount, with no additional information.

I've also emailed LF to ask, but why might this difference come about? Is my current lender charging some additional fee that's showing up here? Is there any room to negotiate this with LF?
When you contact your old lender and ask for a payoff quote, what amount (and breakdown) are they providing you?
AlphaLess
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AlphaLess »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:57 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:32 pm
FrugalProfessor wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:23 pm
nic3456 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:44 pm Not sure how quick other lenders will follow but just got this email from Better

“Lock now — prices go up on 9/21
As you may know, the FHFA has introduced a 0.5% fee on all refinance loans funded after November 30, 2020. That means you must lock a rate before September 21 to avoid additional costs.
The fee will raise the cost of refinancing by 0.5% of the loan amount — $1650 on average.

Rates are still near record lows, so don’t wait. Lock instantly online today — and lock in those savings.”
I got the same email from Better. I've learned over the past week or two that this is a well known fee that was initially intended to be implemented on Sept 1 but was pushed back to Dec 1. Consequently, it puts some time pressure on refinancing before that 0.5% fee is implemented.
The real question is, why is FHFA implementing a refinancing fee of 0.5%.
https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx

The fee is necessary to cover projected COVID-19 losses of at least $6 billion at the Enterprises. Specifically, the actions taken by the Enterprises during the pandemic to protect renters and borrowers are conservatively projected to cost the Enterprises at least $6 billion and could be higher depending on the path of the economic recovery.

Those expenses are expected to at least include:

$4 billion in loan losses due to projected forbearance defaults;
$1 billion in foreclosure moratorium losses; and
$1 billion in servicer compensation and other forbearance expenses.
Thanks, that explanation makes a lot more sense (not that I agree with it).
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
AlphaLess
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AlphaLess »

dstac wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:22 pm the Better/AMEX offer, so waiting for another $2500 credit on top of this.)
Nice!

What's the better / AMEX offer?

TIA!
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
need403bhelp
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by need403bhelp »

AlphaLess wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:03 pm
dstac wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:22 pm the Better/AMEX offer, so waiting for another $2500 credit on top of this.)
Nice!

What's the better / AMEX offer?

TIA!
Briefly: it has expired
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

wootwoot wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:07 pm Locked a 2.5% 30 year no cost with Interactive Mortgage yesterday, 60% LTV.
Thanks for sharing. They're not licensed in NY. :(
invest4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by invest4 »

presto987 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:38 pm
invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm Better matched / beat by $100 (somewhat expected). If no real appreciable difference, is there a general consensus on a preference between the two?
I would go with Better. Seems like most people are having a smooth experience with them, whereas LenderFi seems to be struggling with the volume of loans they are trying to close (see the other thread in this forum regarding LenderFi). Also, if LenderFi waived your appraisal on the LE and Better did not, and if you do get an appraisal waiver with Better, then you will make an extra $550 on the deal. Finally, if Radian offers cheaper title services than Better's company, you might be able to knock another couple hundred dollars off your Better title costs by having them price match Radian.
Locked and loaded. All of you were spot on...appraisal waived and hopeful the Radian bit can work out as well. Thanks so much. At what point in the process would I approach Radian, etc?
gazelle1991
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gazelle1991 »

traveler00 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:59 pm
gazelle1991 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:20 pm i am getting closing disclosure from lenderfi today. Locked with them on 9/4, now just waiting for final approval to close. I had a cash out refi in aug. Doesnt seem like they cared that it was a cashout refi less than 6 months ago.

Thinking of putting my home this month or next though so might have done all these refinances for nothing but who knows maybe the house will sit on the market for a while and i may need to wait til Spring to sell. Since this is a no cost refinance, nothing to lose. I’d better lock in the low rates.
Let us know if your loan goes thru even though it was a cash out less than 6 months.
will do!
totallynotsure
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

am i missing something?

how is everyone getting <3%?

wife and i have a combined income of $250K. excellent credit (780+) and are looking to put 20% down on a $700-750K home.

the best we've found is 3.25%. we've checked Better, Alliant, Citi, Chase and Rocket.

we're in NY if it matters.

totally at a loss. are most folks buying points? putting more down? am i reaching out to the wrong places?

thanks!
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:56 pm
presto987 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:38 pm
invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm Better matched / beat by $100 (somewhat expected). If no real appreciable difference, is there a general consensus on a preference between the two?
I would go with Better. Seems like most people are having a smooth experience with them, whereas LenderFi seems to be struggling with the volume of loans they are trying to close (see the other thread in this forum regarding LenderFi). Also, if LenderFi waived your appraisal on the LE and Better did not, and if you do get an appraisal waiver with Better, then you will make an extra $550 on the deal. Finally, if Radian offers cheaper title services than Better's company, you might be able to knock another couple hundred dollars off your Better title costs by having them price match Radian.
Locked and loaded. All of you were spot on...appraisal waived and hopeful the Radian bit can work out as well. Thanks so much. At what point in the process would I approach Radian, etc?
Curious, how did you get an appraisal waived by Better, and when did you find out? I locked on Monday and instantaneously the website said the appraisal was ordered.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

totallynotsure wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am am i missing something?

how is everyone getting <3%?

wife and i have a combined income of $250K. excellent credit (780+) and are looking to put 20% down on a $700-750K home.

the best we've found is 3.25%. we've checked Better, Alliant, Citi, Chase and Rocket.

we're in NY if it matters.

totally at a loss. are most folks buying points? putting more down? am i reaching out to the wrong places?

thanks!
The most common lenders I've been seeing in this thread are LenderFi, Loan Depot, Loan Cabin, Better (only with a competing offer). Probably some more but I don't think anybody is going for any of your list other than Better with a competing match type of offer. I don't think you're going to get as good of rates with some of those big names.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

MrJedi wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:19 am
totallynotsure wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am am i missing something?

how is everyone getting <3%?

wife and i have a combined income of $250K. excellent credit (780+) and are looking to put 20% down on a $700-750K home.

the best we've found is 3.25%. we've checked Better, Alliant, Citi, Chase and Rocket.

we're in NY if it matters.

totally at a loss. are most folks buying points? putting more down? am i reaching out to the wrong places?

thanks!
The most common lenders I've been seeing in this thread are LenderFi, Loan Depot, Loan Cabin, Better (only with a competing offer). Probably some more but I don't think anybody is going for any of your list other than Better with a competing match type of offer. I don't think you're going to get as good of rates with some of those big names.
I would start out with getting quotes from LenderFi and Loan Cabin. Then try to match/beat with Better and Loan Depot.
catvado
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by catvado »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:31 pm
catvado wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:24 pm The "Loan Amount" is listed as the correct loan amount, but the "Total Payoffs and Payments" is my loan amount plus $2k, so I assume this is where the difference comes from (the difference matches exactly, even with non-rounded numbers). The "Payoffs and Payments" table lists my current lender and this higher amount, with no additional information.

I've also emailed LF to ask, but why might this difference come about? Is my current lender charging some additional fee that's showing up here? Is there any room to negotiate this with LF?
When you contact your old lender and ask for a payoff quote, what amount (and breakdown) are they providing you?
Ah, this helped clarify. The payoff statement shows the unpaid principal balance, "interest at 3.5%" and a $100 "Document Cancel Fee" which together equal the discrepancy. So I assume this is the interest I would have paid my current lender for September. LF can adjust the principal balance upwards to include the interest, which would increase our loan by $2k (actually more like $1.5k) and decrease our cash to close accordingly. The difference in our monthly payment will be negligible, but it feels demoralizing to increase the loan balance...
jco
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jco »

Is there a "best" day of the week to close the loan? Or perhaps more specifically, a best day of the week for the loan to fund?

I think I read that you don't want the loan to fund on a Monday because you get charged interest by both lenders over the weekend?

I expect to schedule closing soon, so I want to be prepared.

Also, how do you know if you're getting charged double interest?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

totallynotsure wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am am i missing something?

how is everyone getting <3%?

wife and i have a combined income of $250K. excellent credit (780+) and are looking to put 20% down on a $700-750K home.

the best we've found is 3.25%. we've checked Better, Alliant, Citi, Chase and Rocket.

we're in NY if it matters.

totally at a loss. are most folks buying points? putting more down? am i reaching out to the wrong places?

thanks!
Income doesn't really matter for the rate, just to qualify for the mortgage payment size. However, a few things are hurting you - (1) you haven't looked at the other online lenders listed in this thread, (2) if you are looking for no-cost on a purchase, the rate will be much higher given the large additional taxes and fees associated with a purchase, and (3) you are not in a conforming loan (though perhaps you are in a superconforming one?).

That last one in particular is hurting you right now as jumbo mortgages have been quite negatively affected by the mortgage market impact from Covid-19 and many companies are not currently offering jumbos (or doing so with adverse terms to drive away business). You may also find that some of the most competitive lenders at the moment may not be doing superconforming loans.

That all said, LenderFi does offer jumbos, so they should at least be on your list to check with. However, you may be best served by a local mortgage broker. This is because LenderFi has been overwhelmed the past 6 months with refis that their communication has been hit-or-miss depending on the folks working your loan. That would be particularly stressful on a purchase when expedient communication and process is of the essence (vs. a refi that could just get its rate lock extended without too much impact, if any).
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

catvado wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:40 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:31 pm
catvado wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:24 pm The "Loan Amount" is listed as the correct loan amount, but the "Total Payoffs and Payments" is my loan amount plus $2k, so I assume this is where the difference comes from (the difference matches exactly, even with non-rounded numbers). The "Payoffs and Payments" table lists my current lender and this higher amount, with no additional information.

I've also emailed LF to ask, but why might this difference come about? Is my current lender charging some additional fee that's showing up here? Is there any room to negotiate this with LF?
When you contact your old lender and ask for a payoff quote, what amount (and breakdown) are they providing you?
Ah, this helped clarify. The payoff statement shows the unpaid principal balance, "interest at 3.5%" and a $100 "Document Cancel Fee" which together equal the discrepancy. So I assume this is the interest I would have paid my current lender for September. LF can adjust the principal balance upwards to include the interest, which would increase our loan by $2k (actually more like $1.5k) and decrease our cash to close accordingly. The difference in our monthly payment will be negligible, but it feels demoralizing to increase the loan balance...
You can take the cash saving and immediately apply it as principal payment. Unless you are aggressively prepaying your mortgage or extremely debt averse, my guess is you are happy with the interest rate and thus don't really have a true issue rolling more into the loan.
BobStrauss
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BobStrauss »

We have 11 years left on our 15-year 3% APR mortgage, a balance now of $88k. I'm seeing some lower rates available in the 2.6-2.8% APR range for 10 year mortgages, but I'm getting the impression it's not worth it for banks or credit unions to deal with us on this? Any thoughts you guys have would be much appreciated.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:56 pm
presto987 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:38 pm
invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm Better matched / beat by $100 (somewhat expected). If no real appreciable difference, is there a general consensus on a preference between the two?
I would go with Better. Seems like most people are having a smooth experience with them, whereas LenderFi seems to be struggling with the volume of loans they are trying to close (see the other thread in this forum regarding LenderFi). Also, if LenderFi waived your appraisal on the LE and Better did not, and if you do get an appraisal waiver with Better, then you will make an extra $550 on the deal. Finally, if Radian offers cheaper title services than Better's company, you might be able to knock another couple hundred dollars off your Better title costs by having them price match Radian.
Locked and loaded. All of you were spot on...appraisal waived and hopeful the Radian bit can work out as well. Thanks so much. At what point in the process would I approach Radian, etc?
You can email Radian immediately for a quote. If you search this thread, I think you will find a post that contains their email address and a summary of the info you need to send them in order for them to give you a quote.

Once you have that, forward it to your Better Processing Expert and ask if they can price match it. Or if you prefer, you can ask them to use Radian. Either way will work, but usually it is more expedient to get the price match, as often the title work has already begun by the time you do this.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

BobStrauss wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:11 am We have 11 years left on our 15-year 3% APR mortgage, a balance now of $88k. I'm seeing some lower rates available in the 2.6-2.8% APR range for 10 year mortgages, but I'm getting the impression it's not worth it for banks or credit unions to deal with us on this? Any thoughts you guys have would be much appreciated.
11 years at 3% for $88k = $15,592 interest paid
11 years* at 2.625% for $88k = $13,571 interest paid

* lets assume you pay extra to keep the same term length

$15,592 - $13,751 = $2,021.

Given that it will not be easy to find a 2.625% no-cost refi for $88k, it doesn't seem worth bothering honestly. But it doesn't hurt to check the websites of some local credit unions to see what they advertise for cost and rate. I would not bother with credit pulls though and just check what they list for rates and fees.
totallynotsure
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:56 am
totallynotsure wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am am i missing something?

how is everyone getting <3%?

wife and i have a combined income of $250K. excellent credit (780+) and are looking to put 20% down on a $700-750K home.

the best we've found is 3.25%. we've checked Better, Alliant, Citi, Chase and Rocket.

we're in NY if it matters.

totally at a loss. are most folks buying points? putting more down? am i reaching out to the wrong places?

thanks!
Income doesn't really matter for the rate, just to qualify for the mortgage payment size. However, a few things are hurting you - (1) you haven't looked at the other online lenders listed in this thread, (2) if you are looking for no-cost on a purchase, the rate will be much higher given the large additional taxes and fees associated with a purchase, and (3) you are not in a conforming loan (though perhaps you are in a superconforming one?).

That last one in particular is hurting you right now as jumbo mortgages have been quite negatively affected by the mortgage market impact from Covid-19 and many companies are not currently offering jumbos (or doing so with adverse terms to drive away business). You may also find that some of the most competitive lenders at the moment may not be doing superconforming loans.

That all said, LenderFi does offer jumbos, so they should at least be on your list to check with. However, you may be best served by a local mortgage broker. This is because LenderFi has been overwhelmed the past 6 months with refis that their communication has been hit-or-miss depending on the folks working your loan. That would be particularly stressful on a purchase when expedient communication and process is of the essence (vs. a refi that could just get its rate lock extended without too much impact, if any).
thanks for the insight.

1. agreed but some of the recommend vendors (LenderFi, etc don't do business in NY)
2. not looking for no cost, just no points. happy to pay typical closing costs (taxes, etc.)
3. we are in conforming/super conforming. here in NY the limit is MUCH higher than most other areas.

with that additional insight, any other thoughts?

i am now >45 days since my last quote so i assume i'll have to eat another hard inquiry if i want to get a new quote elsewhere...
BobStrauss
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BobStrauss »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:21 am
BobStrauss wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:11 am We have 11 years left on our 15-year 3% APR mortgage, a balance now of $88k. I'm seeing some lower rates available in the 2.6-2.8% APR range for 10 year mortgages, but I'm getting the impression it's not worth it for banks or credit unions to deal with us on this? Any thoughts you guys have would be much appreciated.
11 years at 3% for $88k = $15,592 interest paid
11 years* at 2.625% for $88k = $13,571 interest paid

* lets assume you pay extra to keep the same term length

$15,592 - $13,751 = $2,021.

Given that it will not be easy to find a 2.625% no-cost refi for $88k, it doesn't seem worth bothering honestly. But it doesn't hurt to check the websites of some local credit unions to see what they advertise for cost and rate. I would not bother with credit pulls though and just check what they list for rates and fees.
Thanks! That's what we kinda figured but I wanted to make sure.
invest4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by invest4 »

dks05c wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:14 am
invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:56 pm
presto987 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:38 pm
invest4 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm Better matched / beat by $100 (somewhat expected). If no real appreciable difference, is there a general consensus on a preference between the two?
I would go with Better. Seems like most people are having a smooth experience with them, whereas LenderFi seems to be struggling with the volume of loans they are trying to close (see the other thread in this forum regarding LenderFi). Also, if LenderFi waived your appraisal on the LE and Better did not, and if you do get an appraisal waiver with Better, then you will make an extra $550 on the deal. Finally, if Radian offers cheaper title services than Better's company, you might be able to knock another couple hundred dollars off your Better title costs by having them price match Radian.
Locked and loaded. All of you were spot on...appraisal waived and hopeful the Radian bit can work out as well. Thanks so much. At what point in the process would I approach Radian, etc?
Curious, how did you get an appraisal waived by Better, and when did you find out? I locked on Monday and instantaneously the website said the appraisal was ordered.
The way it was explained to me is that the decision is made by Fannie / Freddie based upon some criteria. I found out a few hours after they made the hard pull on my credit.

I quickly googled it and came up with this, which may be helpful:

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9456/display
b2bserver
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by b2bserver »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 pm I just wanted to share folks that I’ve had a good experience with Network Capital.
...
I sent my info to Network Capital and got a callback the next business day. Their rates weren't bad. Not the lowest but that could just be due to market rate fluctuations since my previous quotes.

The most annoying part is I told their rep I'll think it over and will submit an application if I want to continue. I've then received no less than three additional calls from three different reps who all had no idea I've already talked to someone from their company. Haven't had this issue with any other lender.

That's to say, give them a try to see what they're offering but be prepared for phone calls after!
Last edited by b2bserver on Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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changingtimes
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by changingtimes »

presto987 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:12 am
You can email Radian immediately for a quote. If you search this thread, I think you will find a post that contains their email address and a summary of the info you need to send them in order for them to give you a quote.

Once you have that, forward it to your Better Processing Expert and ask if they can price match it. Or if you prefer, you can ask them to use Radian. Either way will work, but usually it is more expedient to get the price match, as often the title work has already begun by the time you do this.
If you can get Radian to reply. I used the address in this thread (and included the items the post said to), and then tried again with a different-but-similar address from their web site, and have received no response to either.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

changingtimes wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:42 am
presto987 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:12 am
You can email Radian immediately for a quote. If you search this thread, I think you will find a post that contains their email address and a summary of the info you need to send them in order for them to give you a quote.

Once you have that, forward it to your Better Processing Expert and ask if they can price match it. Or if you prefer, you can ask them to use Radian. Either way will work, but usually it is more expedient to get the price match, as often the title work has already begun by the time you do this.
If you can get Radian to reply. I used the address in this thread (and included the items the post said to), and then tried again with a different-but-similar address from their web site, and have received no response to either.
Interesting. I have emailed them 6 times during the last month and a half, and each time I've gotten a response within an hour (usually within 15 minutes). The email address I used is clientrelations@radian.com. Maybe someone there is on vacation, or maybe your post went to spam :)
mets914
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mets914 »

Has anyone had this happen? I locked with Loan Depot in July and the 60 day rate lock was about to expire. My loan officer gave me the name of the processer who sent me the loan estimate with the rate lock extended by $1500 less lender credit. She referred me back to the loan officer. Ugh. I left him a message as well as his manager.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

b2bserver wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:41 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 pm I just wanted to share folks that I’ve had a good experience with Network Capital.
...
I sent my info to Network Capital and got a callback the next business day. Their rates weren't bad. Not the lowest but that could just be due to market rate fluctuations since my previous quotes.

The most annoying part is I told their rep I'll think it over and will submit an application if I want to continue. I've then received no less than three additional calls from three different reps who all had no idea I've already talked to someone from their company. Haven't had this issue with any other lender.

That's to say, give them a try to see what they're offering but be prepared for phone calls after!
Ouch! Yeah, they STRONGLY prefer talking to you on the phone. They really should have a means of assigning even just a “lead” to a rep so you stop getting the calls. How was the interaction with the rep? Was mine just a fluke?

Side note: I did submit an app right from the first person, so that likely stopped the calls for me. But I was already in processing elsewhere, so this was just last ditch effort to improve pricing.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

changingtimes wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:42 am
presto987 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:12 am
You can email Radian immediately for a quote. If you search this thread, I think you will find a post that contains their email address and a summary of the info you need to send them in order for them to give you a quote.

Once you have that, forward it to your Better Processing Expert and ask if they can price match it. Or if you prefer, you can ask them to use Radian. Either way will work, but usually it is more expedient to get the price match, as often the title work has already begun by the time you do this.
If you can get Radian to reply. I used the address in this thread (and included the items the post said to), and then tried again with a different-but-similar address from their web site, and have received no response to either.
Odd. I sent an email to the client relations address mentioning my lender, loan amount, zip code, single-family home, no second lien, etc. and got a reply within 15 minutes. Sent that PDF off to my lender for them to either switch to Radian or price-match it.
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changingtimes
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by changingtimes »

presto987 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:57 am Interesting. I have emailed them 6 times during the last month and a half, and each time I've gotten a response within an hour (usually within 15 minutes). The email address I used is clientrelations@radian.com. Maybe someone there is on vacation, or maybe your post went to spam :)
It's possible it went to spam, because I have kind of a weird e-mail set up. I just tried again from my work e-mail address, which, without revealing too much, will probably get their attention. :) We'll see what happens.
ras4250
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ras4250 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:56 am
totallynotsure wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am am i missing something?

how is everyone getting <3%?

wife and i have a combined income of $250K. excellent credit (780+) and are looking to put 20% down on a $700-750K home.

the best we've found is 3.25%. we've checked Better, Alliant, Citi, Chase and Rocket.

we're in NY if it matters.

totally at a loss. are most folks buying points? putting more down? am i reaching out to the wrong places?

thanks!
Income doesn't really matter for the rate, just to qualify for the mortgage payment size. However, a few things are hurting you - (1) you haven't looked at the other online lenders listed in this thread, (2) if you are looking for no-cost on a purchase, the rate will be much higher given the large additional taxes and fees associated with a purchase, and (3) you are not in a conforming loan (though perhaps you are in a superconforming one?).

That last one in particular is hurting you right now as jumbo mortgages have been quite negatively affected by the mortgage market impact from Covid-19 and many companies are not currently offering jumbos (or doing so with adverse terms to drive away business). You may also find that some of the most competitive lenders at the moment may not be doing superconforming loans.

That all said, LenderFi does offer jumbos, so they should at least be on your list to check with. However, you may be best served by a local mortgage broker. This is because LenderFi has been overwhelmed the past 6 months with refis that their communication has been hit-or-miss depending on the folks working your loan. That would be particularly stressful on a purchase when expedient communication and process is of the essence (vs. a refi that could just get its rate lock extended without too much impact, if any).
LenderFi says they are not licensed in NY on their website. Do they do NY and just not list it?
kmanjir
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

Does anyone know if Ally also refunds the appraisal fee (like Better) that is charged at the start of the process, if the appraisal is ordered but not actually done, or if the borrower pulls out of the refi process and does not complete the refi with them?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

ras4250 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:35 am LenderFi says they are not licensed in NY on their website. Do they do NY and just not list it?
I hadn’t looked before I posted that. Sad that they don’t do NY. I only mentioned them since others have reported they do jumbos. But turns out this would be a suerconforming loan anyways.
invest4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by invest4 »

presto987 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:28 pm
atx1202 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:48 pm Reporting: 3.5% 30 yr fixed $800 closing cost after $4k lender credit.

I have locked the rate over the weekend (no fee to lock - appraisal waived).

Would appreciate help with the questions I had in mind

...

Sry for the naive questions, this is my first refinancing
1. Best to do title after, so Better beats/matches the other offer first, then get more off from title. Personally, I would recommend waiting about 5-7 days after Better’s portal says “we’ve ordered your title” before reaching out to your processor with other title quotes.

2. If an appraisal is ordered, that money is gone if you leave. Other than that, only anything you have to pay up front to proceed would be lost. Everything else they would eat if you walk. Generally there is no downside to you to walk away from an offer.

3. Generally, you will need to simply provide the loan amount, what kind of property (some areas charge different for condos vs. single family homes, etc.), if there are other loans on the property, and sometimes to tell them which lender you are working with. Some settlement agents will only work with certain lenders, so they will want to know you are working with one of those.
Agree with all of this. On #1, I agree that you want to bring the competing title quote after they’ve already price matched. In most cases, I agree that you should wait several days before sending them the quote. At that point they won’t want to switch title providers, so they will be inclined to price match. However, there is one exception. If you’re bumping up near the $5000 max lender credit, then they might not be able to price match fully (they price match by giving you additional lender credit). In that case, you might actually want to use your own title company to get their price, in which case you should let them know earlier in the process.

Radian gives good quotes for Better. Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
I don't quite understand the benefit of waiting to provide the competing title company quote so they will not switch title companies? Don't you realize the savings regardless of whether they price match or instead utilize your lower cost titling company?
Sweetpotato
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Sweetpotato »

* Sorry, I am not sure if this is the right place to post mine... I tried to delete this and move to elsewhere, but I can't delete what I wrote. My apologies if it is not the right place....

Hi Everyone,

We just received Closing Disclosure (CD) and have some questions. Our current mortgage rate is 3.499 @30. We have paid mortgage at this rate about 10 months. We have excellent credits.

- Loan Estimate (80% LTV, loan amount around $384,000)
2.5% and APR 2.504% @25

- Closing Disclosure
2.5% and APR 2.513% @25

A: $0
B: $217
C: $937
- A+B+C (D)= $1,154
Lender Credit: $780
E (Recording Fees) = $64
F (Prepaids)= $52.60
G (Initial Escrow Payment at Closing) = $5,886
I Total Other Costs: $6,002
J Total Closing Costs $6,377
Cash to Close: $9,033

Questions:
1) Is it common to see APR go up from LE to CD?
2) Is the interest rate good considering my situation?
3) Do numbers above look okay to you? Any red flags?
4) Is it worth paying to have the escrow waived?

Thank you for any advice you can provide!
Last edited by Sweetpotato on Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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linuxology
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by linuxology »

Is it worth moving from a 3% 15 year to 2% 15 year loan on $180,000. I still have 14.25 years left on loan.
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

linuxology wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:03 pm Is it worth moving from a 3% 15 year to 2% 15 year loan on $180,000. I still have 14.25 years left on loan.
If it won't cost you anything, then yes.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

invest4 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:12 pm
presto987 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:28 pm
atx1202 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:48 pm Reporting: 3.5% 30 yr fixed $800 closing cost after $4k lender credit.

I have locked the rate over the weekend (no fee to lock - appraisal waived).

Would appreciate help with the questions I had in mind

...

Sry for the naive questions, this is my first refinancing
1. Best to do title after, so Better beats/matches the other offer first, then get more off from title. Personally, I would recommend waiting about 5-7 days after Better’s portal says “we’ve ordered your title” before reaching out to your processor with other title quotes.
Agree with all of this. On #1, I agree that you want to bring the competing title quote after they’ve already price matched.
I don't quite understand the benefit of waiting to provide the competing title company quote so they will not switch title companies? Don't you realize the savings regardless of whether they price match or instead utilize your lower cost titling company?
You want to finish getting price matches/concessions prior to getting a pricing change for title so you can avoid the following scenario:
  1. Better beats Offer A and provides 2.75% 30-year with $1,000 cost (A + B + C + E - credits in J)
  2. You provide a competing title quote, either switching to that company or getting a price match, reducing cost $200 for 2.75% 30-year with $800 cost
  3. Provide Better Offer B of 2.75% 30-year with $700 cost. Better matches that offer by increasing lender credits $100
In this scenario, rather than reducing their price $300, they only reduced it $100 since you already had $200 of "savings" on Better's "offer".

Now, you can try and get them to NOT count the $200 discount when comparing Offer B, but YMMV. For reference, I was successful in getting them to match an offer without considering the $300 lender credits I had to "match" the title quote I brought them.

Also, you can use their preferred provider, which the employees working on your loan are more familiar with how to handle (not that they can't handle a different company). This can make for a smoother process as it is the expected workflow vs. the unexpected workflow that may introduce hiccups.
tommy85
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tommy85 »

Thanks to all of you, I have learnt a lot from the discussion/advice here. Just locked rate with Lenderfi at 2.875%, no closing cost, 30 yr fixed, appraisal and escrow waived, loan balance 156k, home value 230k. How did I do?
Mr. Market is Bipolar.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

invest4 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:12 pm
presto987 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:28 pm
atx1202 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:48 pm Reporting: 3.5% 30 yr fixed $800 closing cost after $4k lender credit.

I have locked the rate over the weekend (no fee to lock - appraisal waived).

Would appreciate help with the questions I had in mind

...

Sry for the naive questions, this is my first refinancing
1. Best to do title after, so Better beats/matches the other offer first, then get more off from title. Personally, I would recommend waiting about 5-7 days after Better’s portal says “we’ve ordered your title” before reaching out to your processor with other title quotes.

2. If an appraisal is ordered, that money is gone if you leave. Other than that, only anything you have to pay up front to proceed would be lost. Everything else they would eat if you walk. Generally there is no downside to you to walk away from an offer.

3. Generally, you will need to simply provide the loan amount, what kind of property (some areas charge different for condos vs. single family homes, etc.), if there are other loans on the property, and sometimes to tell them which lender you are working with. Some settlement agents will only work with certain lenders, so they will want to know you are working with one of those.
Agree with all of this. On #1, I agree that you want to bring the competing title quote after they’ve already price matched. In most cases, I agree that you should wait several days before sending them the quote. At that point they won’t want to switch title providers, so they will be inclined to price match. However, there is one exception. If you’re bumping up near the $5000 max lender credit, then they might not be able to price match fully (they price match by giving you additional lender credit). In that case, you might actually want to use your own title company to get their price, in which case you should let them know earlier in the process.

Radian gives good quotes for Better. Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
I don't quite understand the benefit of waiting to provide the competing title company quote so they will not switch title companies? Don't you realize the savings regardless of whether they price match or instead utilize your lower cost titling company?
Yes. The most important thing is that if you're asking them to price match another LE, do that first before you raise the issue of title companies/costs. After that, you are right that your savings are the same regardless of whether you ask them to price match title costs or use your title company. However, it seems that generally using Better's default title company results in a faster and more seamless process, so that is why I'd prefer that approach.
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