when you say 'rent forever'

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alexfoo39
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when you say 'rent forever'

Post by alexfoo39 »

how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Kelrex
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by Kelrex »

alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.

I can only speak for my region, but landlords here can't just kick people out or dramatically raise their rents, so if renters want to stay, then they just stay, and leases renew annually automatically with a capped (~2%) rent increase each year.

However, if they are renting a private home or condo, then the landlord can evict them on the basis of selling or moving back into the home themselves, so there is more risk in renting from a private owner rather than a commercial entity like an apartment building.

I think people who elect to rent long term are also just the kind of people who don't need to feel totally settled into a space and aren't overly perturbed by moving.
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lthenderson
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by lthenderson »

I don't think I have ever signed a rental contract that didn't specify the amount of notice required to avoid penalties. I've had contracts that specified six months all the way down to 30 days notice.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.

I can only speak for my region, but landlords here can't just kick people out or dramatically raise their rents, so if renters want to stay, then they just stay, and leases renew annually automatically with a capped (~2%) rent increase each year.

However, if they are renting a private home or condo, then the landlord can evict them on the basis of selling or moving back into the home themselves, so there is more risk in renting from a private owner rather than a commercial entity like an apartment building.

I think people who elect to rent long term are also just the kind of people who don't need to feel totally settled into a space and aren't overly perturbed by moving.
most rents are for 1 year (unless short term rents) and then renew on a month to month basis at which time a 30 day notice is all that's required. Either landlord or tenant can terminate the lease at that time within 30 days.

A long term lease helps tenants because the rent can't be increased within the lease period. There also could be a discount given to a tenant (if requested) for agreeing to a longer term lease.

Most landlords like long term tenants because it's guaranteed income provided no money (or little) is spent on repairs/rennovations.

I used this to our advantage when I looked at the apartment I currently live in. I viewed it along with lots of other prospective tenants but I did a few things differently....I presented copies of our credit reports for myself and my girlfriend and told the landlords we were interested in a long term situation. I think that really helped seal the deal because (I didn't know until later) they had dealt with some turnover over the prior few years and being that they were out of state landlords (live in the next state over) they didn't want to be having to travel great distances to show the apartment frequently. Now there's a property management company, but at that time, they were d-i-y.

when you leave, typically landlords have to change carpets, repaint, etc. dress it up for prospective new tenants.

landlords don't want to spend money unless they have to.

vacancies can cause loss of income if there's gaps between when a tenant leaves and a new tenant takes possession.

do these issues answer your question?
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
adamthesmythe
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by adamthesmythe »

Nothing you do will eliminate the risk of needing to move. A large landlord can decide the building is going to go condominium. Small landlords are risky because they might want to sell, move in, or rent to relatives.

A long lease eliminates one of the touted advantages of renting: the ability to move for a job or escape an unpleasant situation.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.
sailaway
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by sailaway »

The one year lease that defaults to month to month always seemed ideal to me, but is not the standard everywhere.

Your ideal length depends on your situation. We have a two year lease in a state where they can charge us until the place is rented. We are in a financial position, where would be one of several factors if we were to decide to break the lease, not a deciding factor. (ie, is that how we want to spend our money vs do we have the money).
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batpot
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by batpot »

sailaway wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:13 am The one year lease that defaults to month to month always seemed ideal to me, but is not the standard everywhere.
I don't think it's standard anywhere.

We were under a 6 months lease, and needed an extra month.
We were able to negotiate 1 extra month with the rental company at a significantly higher rate than we paid for the 6 months.
A 12 month lease would have been even cheaper.
Most of the places we looked at were 12 months leases only.

Payment Stability = lower payment.
JackoC
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by JackoC »

Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
1. I can only speak for my region, but landlords here can't just kick people out or dramatically raise their rents, so if renters want to stay, then they just stay, and leases renew annually automatically with a capped (~2%) rent increase each year.

2. However, if they are renting a private home or condo, then the landlord can evict them on the basis of selling or moving back into the home themselves, so there is more risk in renting from a private owner rather than a commercial entity like an apartment building.
1. But rent caps or control is pretty rare nationally. CA and OR are the only states with statewide rent control and state limits are much higher than 2%. Various municipalities in CA and a relatively few other states have their own rent control laws including famously/infamously the largest municipality, NY. In most cases where it exists local rent control is more like what you said, CPI (eg. my municipality in NJ) or less (in NY(C) it's set by a political board for Rent Stabilized properties, was zero a few years recently).

Some other states basically require a landlord to renew the lease if it hasn't been violated (NJ statewide for example) but without a cap on rents that doesn't mean much.

Most states ban their municipalities from passing rent control ordinances besides not having them statewide.
https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/a ... -by-state/

Anyway OP has to specify the location to see if it's one of the relative few with mandatory lease extension and rent control (the only kind of mandatory lease extension that makes any real difference) or there's a municipality nearby where it does.

2. True, even the most tenant friendly jurisdictions allow owners some rights to make tenants leave by moving (back) into a unit themselves or converting the property to another use, although again to use the extreme of NY those rights are quite limited. A Rent Stabilized apartment is a multi-generational family asset for the tenant, largely (landlord also has to extend the same lease to younger residents of the apt taking over the lease eventually).

The other side of the coin being though that if OP happens to be in a city with rent control, controlled apartments are often hard to get. Again at the extreme there's no realistic chance a person moving to NY with no personal connection there is going to land a Rent Stabilized apt.
Last edited by JackoC on Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
oldfort
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by oldfort »

The risk seems minimal with a large, multi-unit apartment building.
Last edited by oldfort on Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
GlennK
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by GlennK »

When I was just starting my career after college, all the apartments I looked at required a one year lease which then went to month to month. The one I chose did not raise the rates until about 17 or 18 months after I first rented, and then not again for another 1.5 years. I bought my first house shortly after that second increase.

When I moved to my current area for a job move, I had a house built and needed to rent for 3 months. I had a bit of time finding an apartment that would rent out for that short of time. And my company had to pay dearly for that. An increase of about 30% per month was what I paid. The unfortunate situation was that I closed on the 3rd day of the 4th month. The apartment manager required a full month payment for that barely used month.

Anyhow, you could probably find a shorter lease than 1 year, but you will pay nicely for that.
BrooklynInvest
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by BrooklynInvest »

In NYC we have what I always thought was a good approach -

If the tenant leaves before the lease period ends the tenant is liable BUT the landlord has to make a good faith effort to rent the unit. Which in the 1-2 times it's happened to me has worked out fine.
Kelrex
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by Kelrex »

JackoC wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:38 am
Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
1. I can only speak for my region, but landlords here can't just kick people out or dramatically raise their rents, so if renters want to stay, then they just stay, and leases renew annually automatically with a capped (~2%) rent increase each year.

2. However, if they are renting a private home or condo, then the landlord can evict them on the basis of selling or moving back into the home themselves, so there is more risk in renting from a private owner rather than a commercial entity like an apartment building.
1. But rent caps or control is pretty rare nationally. CA and OR are the only states with statewide rent control and state limits are much higher than 2%. Various municipalities in CA and a relatively few other states have their own rent control laws including famously/infamously the largest municipality, NY. In most cases where it exists local rent control is more like what you said, CPI (eg. my municipality in NJ) or less (in NY(C) it's set by a political board for Rent Stabilized properties, was zero a few years recently).

Some other states basically require a landlord to renew the lease if it hasn't been violated (NJ statewide for example) but without a cap on rents that doesn't mean much.

Most states ban their municipalities from passing rent control ordinances besides not having them statewide.
https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/a ... -by-state/

Anyway OP has to specify the location to see if it's one of the relative few with mandatory lease extension and rent control (the only kind of mandatory lease extension that makes any real difference) or there's a municipality nearby where it does.

2. True, even the most tenant friendly jurisdictions allow owners some rights to make tenants leave by moving (back) into a unit themselves or converting the property to another use, although again to use the extreme of NY those rights are quite limited. A Rent Stabilized apartment is a multi-generational family asset for the tenant, largely (landlord also has to extend the same lease to younger residents of the apt taking over the lease eventually).

The other side of the coin being though that if OP happens to be in a city with rent control, controlled apartments are often hard to get. Again at the extreme there's no realistic chance a person moving to NY with no personal connection there is going to land a Rent Stabilized apt.
I'm in Canada, so when I refer to my region, it could be very, very different from the US.

I should clarify though, I said that leases renew annually, that's true in my former city, but not my current city. Here they are all 1 year, but then go month to month after that, but still have a capped rent increase, and the month to month is uni-directional, the landlord can't just give you 30 days notice and kick you out, they have to have a justifiable reason, like selling, etc.

Apartment buildings in my city pretty much never get converted to condos, so a lot of people here will live in an apartment for decades. This is not desirable at this point though since rents have risen much faster than the caps allow, so the buildings love when seniors move out after 30 years and they can finally raise the rent to market value.

I don't really know what rent stabilized apartments are, I don't think we have those here. We have low-income housing, but it cannot be passed down to family members or sublet. I believe a family member might get priority if they already lived there and qualified for subsidized housing, but it's a whole social program here, not something you can just go and rent. As I said though, I have no idea how rent stabilizing actually works apart from what I've seen on American tv shows.

The point stands though, that the benefit of renting long term really does come down to what the regional rules/laws and costs are, combined with the individual's tolerance for the risks and benefits of those factors.
JackoC
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by JackoC »

Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:04 pm
JackoC wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:38 am
Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
1. I can only speak for my region, but landlords here can't just kick people out or dramatically raise their rents, so if renters want to stay, then they just stay, and leases renew annually automatically with a capped (~2%) rent increase each year.

2. However, if they are renting a private home or condo, then the landlord can evict them on the basis of selling or moving back into the home themselves, so there is more risk in renting from a private owner rather than a commercial entity like an apartment building.
1. But rent caps or control is pretty rare nationally. CA and OR are the only states with statewide rent control and state limits are much higher than 2%. Various municipalities in CA and a relatively few other states have their own rent control laws including famously/infamously the largest municipality, NY. In most cases where it exists local rent control is more like what you said, CPI (eg. my municipality in NJ) or less (in NY(C) it's set by a political board for Rent Stabilized properties, was zero a few years recently).

Some other states basically require a landlord to renew the lease if it hasn't been violated (NJ statewide for example) but without a cap on rents that doesn't mean much.

Most states ban their municipalities from passing rent control ordinances besides not having them statewide.
https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/a ... -by-state/

Anyway OP has to specify the location to see if it's one of the relative few with mandatory lease extension and rent control (the only kind of mandatory lease extension that makes any real difference) or there's a municipality nearby where it does.

2. True, even the most tenant friendly jurisdictions allow owners some rights to make tenants leave by moving (back) into a unit themselves or converting the property to another use, although again to use the extreme of NY those rights are quite limited. A Rent Stabilized apartment is a multi-generational family asset for the tenant, largely (landlord also has to extend the same lease to younger residents of the apt taking over the lease eventually).

The other side of the coin being though that if OP happens to be in a city with rent control, controlled apartments are often hard to get. Again at the extreme there's no realistic chance a person moving to NY with no personal connection there is going to land a Rent Stabilized apt.
I'm in Canada, so when I refer to my region, it could be very, very different from the US.
(there now being non-US sub forums here), I guess maybe it's still useful to OP virtually certainly in the US to know what the rent law is in some part of another country, or maybe not so much practically. :happy Anyway no debating that the person asking 'how does it work between tenants and landlords?' should probably say where they plan to rent. Very pro-landlord (some parts of US ) and extremely pro-tenant (the biggest US city) regimes exist even in the same country.
Kelrex
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by Kelrex »

JackoC wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:48 pm
Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:04 pm
JackoC wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:38 am
Kelrex wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 am
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
1. I can only speak for my region, but landlords here can't just kick people out or dramatically raise their rents, so if renters want to stay, then they just stay, and leases renew annually automatically with a capped (~2%) rent increase each year.

2. However, if they are renting a private home or condo, then the landlord can evict them on the basis of selling or moving back into the home themselves, so there is more risk in renting from a private owner rather than a commercial entity like an apartment building.
1. But rent caps or control is pretty rare nationally. CA and OR are the only states with statewide rent control and state limits are much higher than 2%. Various municipalities in CA and a relatively few other states have their own rent control laws including famously/infamously the largest municipality, NY. In most cases where it exists local rent control is more like what you said, CPI (eg. my municipality in NJ) or less (in NY(C) it's set by a political board for Rent Stabilized properties, was zero a few years recently).

Some other states basically require a landlord to renew the lease if it hasn't been violated (NJ statewide for example) but without a cap on rents that doesn't mean much.

Most states ban their municipalities from passing rent control ordinances besides not having them statewide.
https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/a ... -by-state/

Anyway OP has to specify the location to see if it's one of the relative few with mandatory lease extension and rent control (the only kind of mandatory lease extension that makes any real difference) or there's a municipality nearby where it does.

2. True, even the most tenant friendly jurisdictions allow owners some rights to make tenants leave by moving (back) into a unit themselves or converting the property to another use, although again to use the extreme of NY those rights are quite limited. A Rent Stabilized apartment is a multi-generational family asset for the tenant, largely (landlord also has to extend the same lease to younger residents of the apt taking over the lease eventually).

The other side of the coin being though that if OP happens to be in a city with rent control, controlled apartments are often hard to get. Again at the extreme there's no realistic chance a person moving to NY with no personal connection there is going to land a Rent Stabilized apt.
I'm in Canada, so when I refer to my region, it could be very, very different from the US.
(there now being non-US sub forums here), I guess maybe it's still useful to OP virtually certainly in the US to know what the rent law is in some part of another country, or maybe not so much practically. :happy Anyway no debating that the person asking 'how does it work between tenants and landlords?' should probably say where they plan to rent. Very pro-landlord (some parts of US ) and extremely pro-tenant (the biggest US city) regimes exist even in the same country.
I also never know when things are different in the US, so I preface with a disclaimer about my experience being regional, which I assume is reasonable, since I imagine there's probably enormous variability in these things across states as well.
solargod007
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by solargod007 »

(1) In NYS, Some apartments allow lease break: on a 12 month lease, if you stay for 4 months and provide 2 month notice(then, on 6th month), you pay a month rent as fee/penalty and move out. Check if you have any of these type of special clauses with your leasing office/in your lease agreement. Also, at the expiration of current lease, you can extend month to month for a max. of 3 month (although with higher rent-they say existing market price).

(2) If you live in a good school zone ( & in a decent sized city), you can always sublet. I know many of my friends either moved -out or moved- in, this way. Check that option as well.
michaeljc70
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by michaeljc70 »

In most of the US, you are able to stay based on the whim of your landlord (after the lease ends). Of course, most landlords want to keep good tenants even if they may not be getting top dollar. The hassle to find new tenants, make any repairs, clean, refresh the place, etc. aren't worth it often to get a few more dollars rent. However, landlords are human. Some may see or hear from friends rents rising around them and want to jack up your rent.

I have actually had a couple friends that have very nice furniture/furnishings, bought nice window treatments, etc. for their rental. The landlord has said something like "wow...this place looks great....if I show this apartment I can get more rent." Of course, it is what the tenant did (and almost all will be leaving with the tenant) that made it show better.

The bottom line is you cannot count on living in a particular rental for as long as you want to.
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pointyhairedboss
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by pointyhairedboss »

Just to add another anecdotal data point... When I was renting in Northern VA, the apartment complexes offered a yearly lease. At the end of the term, you would have to renew for another year, usually at a high rate. You had only one day of the year where you could exit the contract, that being at the end of the lease term.

The apartment complexes would also offer a month to month leases, but that the rate on that lease was twice as high as the rate on the yearly lease. So if you needed to stay another 7 months, it would be cheaper to renew at the annual rate even though you wouldn't use if for the latter 5 months.

That is why it was much more optimal for me to rent from an individual renting their condo than it is to rent from an apartment complex. Most condo owners are open to a 12 month lease that automatically extends month to month after the first year. Over time, they would forget about me and before you know it, several years would go by without a rent increase.

Apartment complexes are business looking to make as much profit as possible, with full time staff keeping tabs on the status of their renter's contracts. Condo owners are looking for somebody to cover their rent and aren't always aware when the renter's hit the one year date.
humbledinvestor
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by humbledinvestor »

oldfort wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:42 am The risk seems minimal with a large, multi-unit apartment building.
Yes, very minimal where I am and they are keeping my rent the same. I am going into year 3 of the same rent this November's lease renewal.
Kelrex
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by Kelrex »

pointyhairedboss wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:09 pm Just to add another anecdotal data point... When I was renting in Northern VA, the apartment complexes offered a yearly lease. At the end of the term, you would have to renew for another year, usually at a high rate. You had only one day of the year where you could exit the contract, that being at the end of the lease term.

The apartment complexes would also offer a month to month leases, but that the rate on that lease was twice as high as the rate on the yearly lease. So if you needed to stay another 7 months, it would be cheaper to renew at the annual rate even though you wouldn't use if for the latter 5 months.

That is why it was much more optimal for me to rent from an individual renting their condo than it is to rent from an apartment complex. Most condo owners are open to a 12 month lease that automatically extends month to month after the first year. Over time, they would forget about me and before you know it, several years would go by without a rent increase.

Apartment complexes are business looking to make as much profit as possible, with full time staff keeping tabs on the status of their renter's contracts. Condo owners are looking for somebody to cover their rent and aren't always aware when the renter's hit the one year date.
Yeah, there are pros and cons to everything.

Some of my best rentals were from private owners, but also some of my most inconvenient times of being forced to move were also from private owners.

It all depends on which risk is most important.

That's the same with owning vs renting though too. There are risks to both and significant benefits to each as well, it will all depend on the person.

While the risk of having to relocate is very real, so is the freedom to move, downsize, upsize, relocate for work, etc, all without the risks of having to sell at an inconvenient time and without the costs of buying and selling as well.

Not everyone wants to live a settled life in one place that they have to take care of. Some people's careers really benefit from the nimbleness of easy relocation.

I would have chosen to be a forever renter if it weren't for the astronomical financial advantage of owning in my ideal location.
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Tejfyy
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by Tejfyy »

I've been renting for 38 years primarily in CA; the word forever isn't a part of my vocabulary. While I've only been asked to leave a place once (on normal terms) I've always felt the place I was living in was "my place," and I've treated it as such.

I recently negotiated a lower rent with my landlord (private) because I needed to reduce my housing costs. I'm an excellent tenant and we both know it.

I'd recommend a shift in mindset, ditching foreverness and 2/3 of your stuff so as to make the most of the liberty to move at will. I think it's an excellent time to be renting.
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alexfoo39
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by alexfoo39 »

Tejfyy wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:34 pm I've been renting for 38 years primarily in CA; the word forever isn't a part of my vocabulary. While I've only been asked to leave a place once (on normal terms) I've always felt the place I was living in was "my place," and I've treated it as such.

I recently negotiated a lower rent with my landlord (private) because I needed to reduce my housing costs. I'm an excellent tenant and we both know it.

I'd recommend a shift in mindset, ditching foreverness and 2/3 of your stuff so as to make the most of the liberty to move at will. I think it's an excellent time to be renting.
Can you elaborate on the last Para? I want to hear you. 38 years vs me (rent for 8 years to date).

Thank you.
anoop
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by anoop »

alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
I rented for 22 years in different areas before buying. I sort of regret buying. It's a lot of work and I'm single.

If you're in a regular apartment, it's very hard to negotiate good terms in a hot areas (e.g most big cities and/or desirable areas). The lease length is typically no more than a year, but the shorter the lease, the higher the rent. I have heard of cases where, when rents are moving up crazy, they even refuse to offer a 1 year lease.

Management companies change and each one that comes in will want to renovate the apartments and raise rents, and the only way to renovate them is to get you out of there which means they keep raising your rent till you decide the old apartment is not worth it. This doesn't apply to areas with rent control. So here the issue is rent increases, but they won't ask you to leave, although at the last place that I rented there was a clause saying if they decide to change the complex to condos, I may be forced out.

Your best bet is to find a private party landlord that is decent. I'm not sure how to go about doing it. There are landlords that have a few properties in a trust and they typically rent to long term folks, usually aren't as aggressive with rent increases, and allow the lease to go month-to-month without there being any pressure to leave. They'll usually have a clause in the lease saying they can ask you to leave if they sell, but you can always ask how long they have owned the property.

If you're the type that like to "nest" -- make changes to the property, own tons of stuff, have customized furnishings, etc. -- then renting is probably not for you.
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Tejfyy
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Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by Tejfyy »

alexfoo39 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:18 am
I'd recommend a shift in mindset, ditching foreverness and 2/3 of your stuff so as to make the most of the liberty to move at will. I think it's an excellent time to be renting.
Can you elaborate on the last Para? I want to hear you. 38 years vs me (rent for 8 years to date).

Thank you.
[/quote]

I'll try.:). I've just never thought in terms of being in a house/apartment or whatever forever. I think the longest I was in an apartment was 6 years. I don't use the word "home" like most Americans do, though I always feel at home wherever I'm living--you know the saying "grow where you're planted." I like the change of scenery. I like feeling in control of my surroundings. I can move if the new neighbors are jerks. I haven't had to do that though :). I've been fortunate I suppose.
Moving is a drag if you have a lot of stuff and because I have so often, I've never acquired much of it. I don't move furniture, for example. I've lived in furnished places, I've gotten hand me downs, I'll pick up stuff at garage sales and thrift stores and sell it or pass it on when I move.
I'm not attached to most middle class comforts dressed as needs. Or put another way, while I raised middle class, I reject on principle and politics middle class aspirations.

I have no statistics but I think this next whatever we're moving into requires us to stay "footloose and fancy free." People are building granny flats and erecting tiny houses, renting out rooms all for income. They'll need tenants. Here we are :).
oldfort
Posts: 1746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by oldfort »

alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Why would anyone need or want a 5 year lease? There's always vacancies where I live. You could find a new place to live in a couple of weeks.
adamthesmythe
Posts: 3770
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by adamthesmythe »

oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:28 pm
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Why would anyone need or want a 5 year lease? There's always vacancies where I live. You could find a new place to live in a couple of weeks.
Maybe not everyone lives where you live?

I had to find a rental a few years ago in a college town and it was difficult and stressful.
michaeljc70
Posts: 7102
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by michaeljc70 »

oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:28 pm
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Why would anyone need or want a 5 year lease? There's always vacancies where I live. You could find a new place to live in a couple of weeks.
For the right price you can find anything. Try doing that in a place where property values are going up 10%-20% a year for a reasonable price.
oldfort
Posts: 1746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by oldfort »

michaeljc70 wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:37 pm
oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:28 pm
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Why would anyone need or want a 5 year lease? There's always vacancies where I live. You could find a new place to live in a couple of weeks.
For the right price you can find anything. Try doing that in a place where property values are going up 10%-20% a year for a reasonable price.
If property values are going up 10-20% a year and those increases are consistent, you would be crazy to rent when you could buy a home. I don't expect 10-20% returns from the stock market.
michaeljc70
Posts: 7102
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by michaeljc70 »

oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:42 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:37 pm
oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:28 pm
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Why would anyone need or want a 5 year lease? There's always vacancies where I live. You could find a new place to live in a couple of weeks.
For the right price you can find anything. Try doing that in a place where property values are going up 10%-20% a year for a reasonable price.
If property values are going up 10-20% a year and those increases are consistent, you would be crazy to rent when you could buy a home. I don't expect 10-20% returns from the stock market.
A lot of people cannot afford to buy in those areas (aka SF). Most of the country doesn't see those kind of increases over a sustained period. However, my point is just that when renting you are subject to get hit with that. Where I live (big city in the Midwest), the first place I owned went up 55% in 4 years and the second went up 50% in 11 years. I wouldn't have wanted to be renting during that period and this was not a HCOL place. If you live in North Dakota or wherever maybe it is less of a concern. Though I think in the 2007 era prices got crazy in most of the country. In parts of CA and FL there have been many booms and busts over the last many decades.

To use an analogy, I view renting similar to getting an adjustable rate mortgage. Over the short term, it is probably okay. Over the long term, it can be risky.
oldfort
Posts: 1746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: when you say 'rent forever'

Post by oldfort »

michaeljc70 wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:47 pm
oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:42 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:37 pm
oldfort wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:28 pm
alexfoo39 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 am how to deal with those 'uncertainties' like needing to move on short notice

do you structure a deal with the landlord? what's the ideal length? 2 years? 5 years? 6 months notice?

Thank you.
Why would anyone need or want a 5 year lease? There's always vacancies where I live. You could find a new place to live in a couple of weeks.
For the right price you can find anything. Try doing that in a place where property values are going up 10%-20% a year for a reasonable price.
If property values are going up 10-20% a year and those increases are consistent, you would be crazy to rent when you could buy a home. I don't expect 10-20% returns from the stock market.
A lot of people cannot afford to buy in those areas (aka SF). Most of the country doesn't see those kind of increases over a sustained period. However, my point is just that when renting you are subject to get hit with that. Where I live (big city in the Midwest), the first place I owned went up 55% in 4 years and the second went up 50% in 11 years. I wouldn't have wanted to be renting during that period and this was not a HCOL place. If you live in North Dakota or wherever maybe it is less of a concern. Though I think in the 2007 era prices got crazy in most of the country. In parts of CA and FL there have been many booms and busts over the last many decades.

To use an analogy, I view renting similar to getting an adjustable rate mortgage. Over the short term, it is probably okay. Over the long term, it can be risky.
If you live in SF or any other place where you can't even afford to save up enough for a down-payment, you need to either get a higher-paying job or move to a lower cost-of-living location, so you have a better income/cost-of-living ratio. I think you have it backwards on the long vs short term. The best data on national housing prices, Shiller-Case, shows over the long term housing prices appreciate 0-1% a year adjusted for inflation. This isn't to say over the short term housing prices might not fluctuate with large increases or decreases.
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