charging an EV

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Normchad
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

randomguy wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:27 pm
Normchad wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:06 am
BamaGuy22 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:06 am
randomguy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:38 am
That is the EV fantasy. Reality so far hasn't matched up to it. Go look at any of the maintenance logs for the 200k+ mile Teslas and you will not find a single one that is on the original drive train. Most of them are on 3 or 4.
Yeah I'm gonna need to see these maintenance logs you're talking about. You're telling us "most" Tesla owners are replacing their drive trains every 50-70K miles? I highly doubt it. I own a Tesla and follow that stuff pretty closely. i haven't seen any reports of drive trains being regularly replaced by most owners, but I'm happy to be educated if you know of any actual data.
The data shows that the Tesla power trains to date have been extremely reliable. There is a company called Tesloop that runs a taxi like service between LA and Vegas. They have many Teslas, most over 300,000 miles, some nearly at 500,000 miles. This is a quote from the owner.

When we first started our company, we predicted the drivetrain would practically last forever,” Tesloop founder Haydn Sonnad told Quartz. “That’s proven to be relatively true.” Except for one vehicle that was totaled in a collision, every Tesla the company has bought is still running - not one has succumbed to old age.
Is that the same teslaloop that had to replace a drive train at 36k miles? If you bought a gas powered car that needed an engine replacement at 36k would you say that it is "Extremely" reliable?

The teslaloop guy definitely found a great use where between the free charging, battery replacement, and drive train warranty, he was able to drive operating costs way down. You can go through his list and go man that isn't bad for 400k or you can go man that is a 4 year old car and look at all the crap he had to replace.
The data speaks for itself. Unfortunately, there are cases of Toyota V6 engines blowing up with sludge at similar ages. And BHs hold Toyota out as the gold standard of reliability.

A lot of us are curious about EVs. And a question that instantly comes up, is, “are the reliable? With the batteries last?” Until we have a lot of these on the road for a long time, we just won’t know for certain. But Tesloop does have about the best dataset we can find, and so far, it’s gone really well. And since they started buying early, this included older vehicles too.

We are all lucky that they share this data. And everybody is free to go look at it and decide fir themselves how they feel about it. I looked at it, and it helped me decide to buy a Tesla.

But it should be telling that fleet operators who buy them, are very happy with them.
CheckMate404
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:49 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by CheckMate404 »

dsmclone wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:20 pm
CheckMate404 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:30 pm
Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
la.

We spent more time looking for and getting gas, than we spent waiting for a charge. By a lot.
This seems a little odd to me. I can't remember the last time I wasn't within 15 minutes of a gas station and I just went on a 9 day road trip to Yellowstone. On the other hand, there were times where I would have been 100 miles away from a Tesla Supercharger in these remote locations. With that said, I love Tesla and once they clean up their fit/finish I'll probably get one.
The math is pretty simple.

1. How often do your drive more than 6.5 hours in a single day?

2. When you drive more than 6.5 hours in a single day, are there any Superchargers align your route, in areas you would’ve stopped anyway?

For my driving habits, and I’d surmise the vast majority of driving habits, the answers to these two questions result in a situation where they’d spend more time looking for and getting gas, than time spent waiting for a charge. By a lot.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: charging an EV

Post by rob »

Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:15 pm One big downside with an EV right now is this, if you run out of juice, you’re just stuck. You can’t walk up the highway and get more to put in it. You’re gonna need to be towed to a charger.....
I'm not likely to ever buy an EV and certainly never a hybrid but I read somewhere recently that Telsla unlocked some range for those getting out of the way of a storm - so there must be something not used in there... isn't there an emergency limp home charge somewhere??
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Boglelicious123
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Boglelicious123 »

rob wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 pm
Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:15 pm One big downside with an EV right now is this, if you run out of juice, you’re just stuck. You can’t walk up the highway and get more to put in it. You’re gonna need to be towed to a charger.....
I'm not likely to ever buy an EV and certainly never a hybrid but I read somewhere recently that Telsla unlocked some range for those getting out of the way of a storm - so there must be something not used in there... isn't there an emergency limp home charge somewhere??
Yes, Tesla’s do have an emergency charge at the very “bottom” of the battery. Obviously not something you would ever want to use, but it is there (based on common thought from Tesla owners)

I have a Tesla SR+ Model 3 and reading through this thread makes me shake my head a bit. When you don’t have an electric car (especially a Tesla due to its battery reliability & supercharger network) you worry about the range, battery life, charging, etc. When you actually buy a Tesla and you drive one day in and day out those worries go straight out the window.

With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!
Monsterflockster
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by Monsterflockster »

Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm
rob wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 pm
Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:15 pm One big downside with an EV right now is this, if you run out of juice, you’re just stuck. You can’t walk up the highway and get more to put in it. You’re gonna need to be towed to a charger.....
I'm not likely to ever buy an EV and certainly never a hybrid but I read somewhere recently that Telsla unlocked some range for those getting out of the way of a storm - so there must be something not used in there... isn't there an emergency limp home charge somewhere??
Yes, Tesla’s do have an emergency charge at the very “bottom” of the battery. Obviously not something you would ever want to use, but it is there (based on common thought from Tesla owners)

I have a Tesla SR+ Model 3 and reading through this thread makes me shake my head a bit. When you don’t have an electric car (especially a Tesla due to its battery reliability & supercharger network) you worry about the range, battery life, charging, etc. When you actually buy a Tesla and you drive one day in and day out those worries go straight out the window.

With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!
I’m sure the same people won’t ever buy a cell phone either because they are afraid if they use it a lot it will die. Land lines FTW!
Boglelicious123
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Boglelicious123 »

Monsterflockster wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:03 am
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm
rob wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 pm
Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:15 pm One big downside with an EV right now is this, if you run out of juice, you’re just stuck. You can’t walk up the highway and get more to put in it. You’re gonna need to be towed to a charger.....
I'm not likely to ever buy an EV and certainly never a hybrid but I read somewhere recently that Telsla unlocked some range for those getting out of the way of a storm - so there must be something not used in there... isn't there an emergency limp home charge somewhere??
Yes, Tesla’s do have an emergency charge at the very “bottom” of the battery. Obviously not something you would ever want to use, but it is there (based on common thought from Tesla owners)

I have a Tesla SR+ Model 3 and reading through this thread makes me shake my head a bit. When you don’t have an electric car (especially a Tesla due to its battery reliability & supercharger network) you worry about the range, battery life, charging, etc. When you actually buy a Tesla and you drive one day in and day out those worries go straight out the window.

With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!
I’m sure the same people won’t ever buy a cell phone either because they are afraid if they use it a lot it will die. Land lines FTW!
LOL, you are so right! It’s just so funny because I would have thought some of those same things if I hadn’t started doing research into it on my own. After owning one, it’s so apparent that this is the future I would be insane to own anything else.

And seriously, when was the last time you ran out of gas on the road? Anyone? That would be the equivalent of running out of electricity in a Tesla. Except there are so many warnings and helpful hints to charge you would have to be sleeping to run out of battery in one of those
bagle
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:59 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by bagle »

Monsterflockster wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:03 am
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm
rob wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 pm
Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:15 pm One big downside with an EV right now is this, if you run out of juice, you’re just stuck. You can’t walk up the highway and get more to put in it. You’re gonna need to be towed to a charger.....
I'm not likely to ever buy an EV and certainly never a hybrid but I read somewhere recently that Telsla unlocked some range for those getting out of the way of a storm - so there must be something not used in there... isn't there an emergency limp home charge somewhere??
Yes, Tesla’s do have an emergency charge at the very “bottom” of the battery. Obviously not something you would ever want to use, but it is there (based on common thought from Tesla owners)

I have a Tesla SR+ Model 3 and reading through this thread makes me shake my head a bit. When you don’t have an electric car (especially a Tesla due to its battery reliability & supercharger network) you worry about the range, battery life, charging, etc. When you actually buy a Tesla and you drive one day in and day out those worries go straight out the window.

With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!
I’m sure the same people won’t ever buy a cell phone either because they are afraid if they use it a lot it will die. Land lines FTW!
There are legitimate reasons for not buying an EV such as a Tesla, but range anxiety isn't one of them any more.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 21015
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: charging an EV

Post by willthrill81 »

mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
Boglelicious123
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Boglelicious123 »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
If you are looking at getting an EV but want to pay less than buying a Tesla you should take a serious look at the Bolt. Although a 60-70 mile range sounds decent, I would personally constantly have range anxiety in that vehicle. If it’s cold outside you won’t get 60-70 miles. You’ll never want to charge to 100% or go below 10% either with helps limit actual range as well. Once you get above 200 mi range all that goes away.

I will add that if you don’t want to pay for a Tesla don’t ever, under any circumstances, drive a Tesla. You will be a buyer before you even know what’s happening
Tingting1013
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Tingting1013 »

Boglelicious123 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:07 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
If you are looking at getting an EV but want to pay less than buying a Tesla you should take a serious look at the Bolt. Although a 60-70 mile range sounds decent, I would personally constantly have range anxiety in that vehicle. If it’s cold outside you won’t get 60-70 miles. You’ll never want to charge to 100% or go below 10% either with helps limit actual range as well. Once you get above 200 mi range all that goes away.

I will add that if you don’t want to pay for a Tesla don’t ever, under any circumstances, drive a Tesla. You will be a buyer before you even know what’s happening
The Leaf Plus has a range of 215 electric only miles, and over $15k cheaper than a Model 3 SRP.
Normchad
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
I have a friend that bought a used Leaf. He got it for about $15K. I think his useful range is about 60 miles, but that’s perfect for how he uses it. The leaf was a very smart choice for his situation. He is an extremely satisfied Leaf owner.
Afty
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Afty »

+1 to buying more range than you think you'll need. Others have mentioned weather and not charging to 100% or below 10% as reasons. Other reasons include planning for battery degradation and incurring less stress on the battery. A 60-70 mile claimed range could be only 30-40 in realistic/suboptimal conditions.
User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: charging an EV

Post by Ged »

fareastwarriors wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:57 pm
Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
Best way is just drive less.


No, I have no hesitation but I also don't do long road trips. Not my style.
This thread is interesting to me since I am 70. No more iron ass and elastic bladder; indeed no more long road trips. A plug in electric may work well except that every few years here in NJ a hurricane goes through and we lose power for a week.

Food for thought.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 11149
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Ged wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 pm
fareastwarriors wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:57 pm
Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
Best way is just drive less.


No, I have no hesitation but I also don't do long road trips. Not my style.
This thread is interesting to me since I am 70. No more iron ass and elastic bladder; indeed no more long road trips. A plug in electric may work well except that every few years here in NJ a hurricane goes through and we lose power for a week.
Food for thought.
We also lose power in MA, and have an all electric house, so we have solar, batteries, and propane generator. If I didn’t already have a Tesla X, I would seriously look at a Polestar 2 (Volvo). IMO, Volvo makes the best car seats, great for the missing iron ass.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
Helo80
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Helo80 »

Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!

Except I don't want to play video games or watch YouTube while I fill up. I don't want to spend 20+ minutes at a gas station.

Some on here exclusively fill up at Costco. Can you imagine if every car took 20 minutes to fill up? It's already bad enough when it's 2/3 minutes per car.
Helo80
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Helo80 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:42 am
MBB_Boy wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:27 am Those early adopters who got free supercharging for life are probably even happier
I’m an early adopter, and short of selling my car, I can’t think of a way to monetize the free supercharging. Iirc, the last time I supercharged was 2 years ago. I’ll probably sell when my CyberTruck arrives :D

Are you interested in CyberTruck, because you actually need a truck or because Tesla makes it?
investor997
Posts: 573
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by investor997 »

Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!

Except I don't want to play video games or watch YouTube while I fill up. I don't want to spend 20+ minutes at a gas station.

Some on here exclusively fill up at Costco. Can you imagine if every car took 20 minutes to fill up? It's already bad enough when it's 2/3 minutes per car.
I think you missed the point of the previous poster. I'll re-state: With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Another way to look at it: It takes 10 seconds to charge the car: 5 seconds when you plug in the cable when you get home, and 5 seconds when you unplug it the next morning.

20 minutes for a fill-up at Costco is probably not out of the ordinary around these parts given how long the lines are there.
Tingting1013
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Tingting1013 »

investor997 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:26 pm
Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!

Except I don't want to play video games or watch YouTube while I fill up. I don't want to spend 20+ minutes at a gas station.

Some on here exclusively fill up at Costco. Can you imagine if every car took 20 minutes to fill up? It's already bad enough when it's 2/3 minutes per car.
I think you missed the point of the previous poster. I'll re-state: With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Another way to look at it: It takes 10 seconds to charge the car: 5 seconds when you plug in the cable when you get home, and 5 seconds when you unplug it the next morning.

20 minutes for a fill-up at Costco is probably not out of the ordinary around these parts given how long the lines are there.
Not to mention the drive to and from the Costco.
fareastwarriors
Posts: 1267
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:31 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by fareastwarriors »

Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!

Except I don't want to play video games or watch YouTube while I fill up. I don't want to spend 20+ minutes at a gas station.

Some on here exclusively fill up at Costco. Can you imagine if every car took 20 minutes to fill up? It's already bad enough when it's 2/3 minutes per car.
Then maybe an EV is not right for you Today. Maybe someday but not today. And that's okay.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 21015
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: charging an EV

Post by willthrill81 »

Normchad wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:30 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
I have a friend that bought a used Leaf. He got it for about $15K. I think his useful range is about 60 miles, but that’s perfect for how he uses it. The leaf was a very smart choice for his situation. He is an extremely satisfied Leaf owner.
Do you know whether his 60 mile range includes use of the air conditioning or heater?
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 11149
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:18 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:42 am
MBB_Boy wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:27 am Those early adopters who got free supercharging for life are probably even happier
I’m an early adopter, and short of selling my car, I can’t think of a way to monetize the free supercharging. Iirc, the last time I supercharged was 2 years ago. I’ll probably sell when my CyberTruck arrives :D
Are you interested in CyberTruck, because you actually need a truck or because Tesla makes it?
I volunteer to deliver firewood to townspeople. I’m tired of being careful when stacking firewood in macho looking trucks that have to be treated gingerly. I want a truck to just throw firewood into.

I probably need a smaller truck, but will see.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
Normchad
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:13 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:30 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
I have a friend that bought a used Leaf. He got it for about $15K. I think his useful range is about 60 miles, but that’s perfect for how he uses it. The leaf was a very smart choice for his situation. He is an extremely satisfied Leaf owner.
Do you know whether his 60 mile range includes use of the air conditioning or heater?
We live in northern Virginia, so we use the AC for a lot of the year. In my experience with the Tesla, AC doesn't really hurt range much at all.

the heat on the other hand, is a big drag in the Tesla. I don't know about the Leaf. He hasn't complained about to me though. That would definitely be worth reading up on if considering a Leaf in a cold climate. Like I say, all I know is, he got it cheap, and he is very happy with it.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 21015
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: charging an EV

Post by willthrill81 »

Normchad wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:18 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:13 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:30 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
I have a friend that bought a used Leaf. He got it for about $15K. I think his useful range is about 60 miles, but that’s perfect for how he uses it. The leaf was a very smart choice for his situation. He is an extremely satisfied Leaf owner.
Do you know whether his 60 mile range includes use of the air conditioning or heater?
We live in northern Virginia, so we use the AC for a lot of the year. In my experience with the Tesla, AC doesn't really hurt range much at all.

the heat on the other hand, is a big drag in the Tesla. I don't know about the Leaf. He hasn't complained about to me though. That would definitely be worth reading up on if considering a Leaf in a cold climate. Like I say, all I know is, he got it cheap, and he is very happy with it.
Our winters aren't typically that cold, usually 20-40F, and in really cold situations, we could use our gas vehicle. It's something I'll definitely watch out for should our needs require a second vehicle. Thanks.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
squirm
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

AC doesn't hurt our range much either. Heat on the other hand is a killer.
Boglelicious123
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Boglelicious123 »

investor997 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:26 pm
Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!

Except I don't want to play video games or watch YouTube while I fill up. I don't want to spend 20+ minutes at a gas station.

Some on here exclusively fill up at Costco. Can you imagine if every car took 20 minutes to fill up? It's already bad enough when it's 2/3 minutes per car.
I think you missed the point of the previous poster. I'll re-state: With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Another way to look at it: It takes 10 seconds to charge the car: 5 seconds when you plug in the cable when you get home, and 5 seconds when you unplug it the next morning.

20 minutes for a fill-up at Costco is probably not out of the ordinary around these parts given how long the lines are there.
You nailed it. With an EV the only time you have to “fill up” is on road trips. You wake up to a “full tank” literally every day. Ask yourself, how many times do you have to stop for gas? For me it was about 2-3 times per month. Say it takes 5 min at the gas station...that adds up pretty quick. The only time I ever have to wait on a charge is on a road trip. Are you going on more than 1 road trip per month? Even with just 1 per month it basically evens out when you look at time. And do you not stop to use the bathroom/get food during a road trip? Most EV chargers (especially Tesla Superchargers) are located in an area where you can grab some food or use the bathroom. So unless you never stop to use the bathroom or get food on a road trip, you are going to be stopping anyway. This doesn’t even include the obvious cost savings of not having to buy gas. The cost of charging with electricity is roughly 1/3 of gas depending on where you are located.

The only situation where I would recommend not getting an EV based on charging alone is if you live in an apartment or house without in-home charging available to you. I wouldn’t want to depend on public chargers on a weekly or day-to-day basis
Helo80
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Helo80 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:16 pm I volunteer to deliver firewood to townspeople. I’m tired of being careful when stacking firewood in macho looking trucks that have to be treated gingerly. I want a truck to just throw firewood into.

I probably need a smaller truck, but will see.

You've jogged my memory now and have said this before. Depending on the truck, some of these are approaching Mercedes S-class level comfort and luxury. An F-250/350 will likely not ever have the prestige of Merc's flagship sedan, but it's getting there both pricing and comfort wise. That could be why people are gentle with their truck. It's not entirely uncommon or unheard of to hit $70k to $80k on a well equipped F-250.

The thing is that I'd be curious how tough CyberTruck really is since they're going have the Big 3's bread and butter. Elon is well known to run loose with his mouth on promises and delivery dates. Right now, all we have is a basic design and high level promises from Elon of what it will do. AFAIK, no interior photos exist.
Helo80
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Helo80 »

fareastwarriors wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:09 pm Then maybe an EV is not right for you Today. Maybe someday but not today. And that's okay.

You're right, one day, but that day is not today, tomorrow or next year. I'm going to let the free market get some more products on the road before I pull the plug on ICE.
squirm
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:16 pm
Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:18 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:42 am
MBB_Boy wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:27 am Those early adopters who got free supercharging for life are probably even happier
I’m an early adopter, and short of selling my car, I can’t think of a way to monetize the free supercharging. Iirc, the last time I supercharged was 2 years ago. I’ll probably sell when my CyberTruck arrives :D
Are you interested in CyberTruck, because you actually need a truck or because Tesla makes it?
I volunteer to deliver firewood to townspeople. I’m tired of being careful when stacking firewood in macho looking trucks that have to be treated gingerly. I want a truck to just throw firewood into.

I probably need a smaller truck, but will see.
Or use a trailer, or an old pickup that you can just beat the snot out of without caring.
User avatar
4nursebee
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: charging an EV

Post by 4nursebee »

Everyone should stop trying to convince ice to ev, let them keep their horses.
Pale Blue Dot
phxjcc
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by phxjcc »

hunoraut wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:31 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:38 pm
:oops: This is getting hilarious. Great entertainment.
It's nauseating at times, reading this stuff.
Agree.

Math works.

Take a Model 3, base of $40,000.
Take an Accord, base of $25,000.

Now, do the math.

This is a lifestyle choice and the EV crowd is rationalizing a lifestyle choice.

The lack of self awareness is stunning.

Having said that, I want a 3/4 ton body on frame truck that can go 350 miles in desert heat or mountain cold per charge, towing 7K.

For $40,000.
With 300,000 of usable drivetrain life.
To replace my 1999 truck.
(That I paid $12,500 for 14 years ago)

I can buy that today—a nice used truck.
Elon’s “magic” truck?
It will be new, cost $100k, haul nothing, and have no practical use.
Valuethinker
Posts: 41194
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by Valuethinker »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
Look at a used BMW i3 as well? Nice package of a car - you see a lot of them zipping around London.

Friend has Leaf in a cold climate (Newfoundland). Range is c 80 miles. I understand that Nissan made some basic mistakes in design (battery venting?) w limit the vehicle.

There are a *lot* of new EVs coming onto the market.
Valuethinker
Posts: 41194
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by Valuethinker »

Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:00 pm
fareastwarriors wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:09 pm Then maybe an EV is not right for you Today. Maybe someday but not today. And that's okay.

You're right, one day, but that day is not today, tomorrow or next year. I'm going to let the free market get some more products on the road before I pull the plug on ICE.
Actually it is forced innovation.

Like WW2. Or the Space Programme. Or the Internet. Or the Covid-19 vaccine.

A number of countries will have phased out new ICE vehicles by 2035 or 2040. Manufacturers are scrambling to ready themselves for that new world.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 11149
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by TomatoTomahto »

squirm wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:16 pm I volunteer to deliver firewood to townspeople. I’m tired of being careful when stacking firewood in macho looking trucks that have to be treated gingerly. I want a truck to just throw firewood into.
I probably need a smaller truck, but will see.
Or use a trailer, or an old pickup that you can just beat the snot out of without caring.
Trailer wouldn’t work for many of the deliveries (meaning I don’t want to learn how to get it close enough, many driveways are really tricky).

I don’t want an “extra” old pickup to clog up my driveway.

A smaller CyberTruck would be perfect, and there has been some discussion of shrinking the size.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 11149
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Normchad wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:18 pm We live in northern Virginia, so we use the AC for a lot of the year. In my experience with the Tesla, AC doesn't really hurt range much at all.

the heat on the other hand, is a big drag in the Tesla. I don't know about the Leaf. He hasn't complained about to me though. That would definitely be worth reading up on if considering a Leaf in a cold climate. Like I say, all I know is, he got it cheap, and he is very happy with it.
Tip: for the very few times I’ve wanted to stretch the Tesla range in cold weather, I turned off cabin heat and warmed my seat and the steering wheel. I don’t know if that’s an option on a Leaf (which also has a smaller cabin).

My understanding is that the newer Tesla designs use a heat pump for heat, rather than resistance heaters, so heating should be less of an issue going forward.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
mbasherp
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:48 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by mbasherp »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
mbasherp wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:08 pm If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.
We're only a one car household right now, but we may need a second vehicle next year. If we do, I'll look hard at an EV, maybe a Nissan Leaf. A 60-70 mile range would be great for most of our vehicle needs.
Indeed, a lightly used Leaf in good condition is cheap and a perfect around town driver. Ours was $12k. Range either works or not for a given user. It changed our car situation from his/hers to EV/ICE. We have no problems with this setup; it’s saved us a lot of money via operating/maintenance costs and has been good for the environment as well.

Someday I hope to make the ICE a PHEV and then we’ll really be cooking!
Boglelicious123
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Boglelicious123 »

phxjcc wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:50 pm
hunoraut wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:31 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:38 pm
:oops: This is getting hilarious. Great entertainment.
It's nauseating at times, reading this stuff.
Agree.

Math works.

Take a Model 3, base of $40,000.
Take an Accord, base of $25,000.

Now, do the math.

This is a lifestyle choice and the EV crowd is rationalizing a lifestyle choice.

The lack of self awareness is stunning.

Having said that, I want a 3/4 ton body on frame truck that can go 350 miles in desert heat or mountain cold per charge, towing 7K.

For $40,000.
With 300,000 of usable drivetrain life.
To replace my 1999 truck.
(That I paid $12,500 for 14 years ago)

I can buy that today—a nice used truck.
Elon’s “magic” truck?
It will be new, cost $100k, haul nothing, and have no practical use.
Your price disparity between the base Accord & Model 3 is an interesting thought experiment because it’s far more complex than just a starting price. I’ll ignore the facts that the base Model 3 goes for 38K and I have a significant state tax incentive in my state and we’ll play with your numbers.

I plan on keeping my Model 3 for 10 years (like every other car I’ve had). Estimating VERY conservatively I’ll save around 1K/year on gas and maintenance. Now the total cost given your starting numbers is 25K vs 30K

Adding in on top of these numbers are so many factors including the fact that the Model 3 actually gets BETTER over time because of automatic software updates, holds its value better than any car on the road, is incredibly fun to drive, is the safest car in the world, is better for the environment, etc. Honestly I could list 10 more reasons but this post would be too long

Looking at the price on the surface you could say “hey, that’s quite a difference” but in reality that’s just not true. Even with all the conservative estimates I just made (and not including the overwhelming positives about driving a Tesla) you are only talking about $5K over 10 years. That’s a payment I’m willing to make for a ton more enjoyment over a decade
User avatar
batpot
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by batpot »

bagle wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 am There are legitimate reasons for not buying an EV such as a Tesla, but range anxiety isn't one of them any more.
Not true if camping.
Our next car will be a PHEV for this reason.

The other car which is purely used for commuting, will almost certainly be a full EV, though.
Still, I doubt it will be a Tesla.
FreemanB
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 5:55 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by FreemanB »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:36 amTip: for the very few times I’ve wanted to stretch the Tesla range in cold weather, I turned off cabin heat and warmed my seat and the steering wheel. I don’t know if that’s an option on a Leaf (which also has a smaller cabin).

My understanding is that the newer Tesla designs use a heat pump for heat, rather than resistance heaters, so heating should be less of an issue going forward.
I have a 2019 Leaf, and it has the same options for heat. I've only driven it one winter so far in Northern VA, but on the coldest days, I would generally rely more on the seat and steering wheel heaters than the cabin heat to keep me comfortable.(Why heat 100% of the cabin when I'm using less than 25% of it?) I wouldn't turn it all of the way off, but I would keep it much lower than I would without the other heat sources. I didn't notice any significant differences in range during the winter under those conditions, and with the generally mild winters we usually have, I don't expect it to be an issue here in the long term. I don't have a Leaf Plus, just a regular leaf, with an estimated range of around 160 miles, but my normal round-trip commute is less than 40 miles. I generally only charge every 2-3 days or so, even though I could plug it in at home every night if needed.
Tingting1013
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Tingting1013 »

batpot wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:48 am
bagle wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 am There are legitimate reasons for not buying an EV such as a Tesla, but range anxiety isn't one of them any more.
Not true if camping.
Our next car will be a PHEV for this reason.

The other car which is purely used for commuting, will almost certainly be a full EV, though.
Still, I doubt it will be a Tesla.
Some great deals on Honda Clarities this month. Here in the Bay Area I’m getting quotes of $27k + sales taxes - Federal and state tax incentives: ~$20k OTD. Almost $10k cheaper than a comparable Accord or Camry.
squirm
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

Tingting1013 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:24 pm
batpot wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:48 am
bagle wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 am There are legitimate reasons for not buying an EV such as a Tesla, but range anxiety isn't one of them any more.
Not true if camping.
Our next car will be a PHEV for this reason.

The other car which is purely used for commuting, will almost certainly be a full EV, though.
Still, I doubt it will be a Tesla.
Some great deals on Honda Clarities this month. Here in the Bay Area I’m getting quotes of $27k + sales taxes - Federal and state tax incentives: ~$20k OTD. Almost $10k cheaper than a comparable Accord or Camry.
I think the Clarity offers a great value. You get Honda quality, good EV range (for a phev) and all the tax advantages. Plus it's a great road trip car, no worrying about where to plug in.
BamaGuy22
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:22 am

Re: charging an EV

Post by BamaGuy22 »

investor997 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:26 pm
Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm
Boglelicious123 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 pm With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Not to mention there are tons of charging stations around town all over the U.S. if you ever needed a quick charge (which you won’t during any typical day). If you are curious download the PlugShare app to check out charging in your area. For long travel there are supercharger stations which take around 20 min to “fill up”...keep in mind there’s a huge screen for watching Netflix, YouTube, or playing games right in front of you while charging.

My biggest complaint while charging is it doesn’t take long enough because I usually want to play games or watch Netflix for longer than it takes to charge!

Except I don't want to play video games or watch YouTube while I fill up. I don't want to spend 20+ minutes at a gas station.

Some on here exclusively fill up at Costco. Can you imagine if every car took 20 minutes to fill up? It's already bad enough when it's 2/3 minutes per car.
I think you missed the point of the previous poster. I'll re-state: With in-home charging you don’t have to worry about range. Your car wakes up to a “full” tank every morning! Another way to look at it: It takes 10 seconds to charge the car: 5 seconds when you plug in the cable when you get home, and 5 seconds when you unplug it the next morning.

20 minutes for a fill-up at Costco is probably not out of the ordinary around these parts given how long the lines are there.
So many miss this point in these discussions. They imagine trading their 5 minute gas fill ups for 20 minute charging station fill ups. Yuck, who would want that? But in reality most EV drivers rarely use public charging stations at all, and spend virtually no time (and less money) on "fueling" their car. The guy you're relying to imagines EV drivers lined up at Costco for their weekly fill up. That's simply not how it works.
User avatar
batpot
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by batpot »

squirm wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:28 pm
Tingting1013 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:24 pm
batpot wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:48 am
bagle wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 am There are legitimate reasons for not buying an EV such as a Tesla, but range anxiety isn't one of them any more.
Not true if camping.
Our next car will be a PHEV for this reason.

The other car which is purely used for commuting, will almost certainly be a full EV, though.
Still, I doubt it will be a Tesla.
Some great deals on Honda Clarities this month. Here in the Bay Area I’m getting quotes of $27k + sales taxes - Federal and state tax incentives: ~$20k OTD. Almost $10k cheaper than a comparable Accord or Camry.
I think the Clarity offers a great value. You get Honda quality, good EV range (for a phev) and all the tax advantages. Plus it's a great road trip car, no worrying about where to plug in.
Fugly!
And not enough room, nor ground clearance, and not 4wd.
Rav4 is top contender, but trying to convince the wife to consider the Ford Escape. CR-V PHEV is also expected.
Unfortunately the Mitsubishi Outlander only has 25 miles of EV range.

We're not in a rush.
Afty
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Afty »

Apparently there are some great deals on the Bolt right now, for anyone on the fence: https://jalopnik.com/you-can-get-a-bonk ... 1845082072
Tingting1013
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Tingting1013 »

Afty wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 pm Apparently there are some great deals on the Bolt right now, for anyone on the fence: https://jalopnik.com/you-can-get-a-bonk ... 1845082072
+1.

NJ, CO, CA residents can basically get to drive a free car for three years.
mervinj7
Posts: 1547
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by mervinj7 »

Afty wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 pm Apparently there are some great deals on the Bolt right now, for anyone on the fence: https://jalopnik.com/you-can-get-a-bonk ... 1845082072
What an insane deal...
phxjcc
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by phxjcc »

Boglelicious123 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:23 am
phxjcc wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:50 pm
hunoraut wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:31 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:38 pm
:oops: This is getting hilarious. Great entertainment.
It's nauseating at times, reading this stuff.
Agree.

Math works.

Take a Model 3, base of $40,000.
Take an Accord, base of $25,000.

Now, do the math.

This is a lifestyle choice and the EV crowd is rationalizing a lifestyle choice.

The lack of self awareness is stunning.

Having said that, I want a 3/4 ton body on frame truck that can go 350 miles in desert heat or mountain cold per charge, towing 7K.

For $40,000.
With 300,000 of usable drivetrain life.
To replace my 1999 truck.
(That I paid $12,500 for 14 years ago)

I can buy that today—a nice used truck.
Elon’s “magic” truck?
It will be new, cost $100k, haul nothing, and have no practical use.
Your price disparity between the base Accord & Model 3 is an interesting thought experiment because it’s far more complex than just a starting price. I’ll ignore the facts that the base Model 3 goes for 38K and I have a significant state tax incentive in my state and we’ll play with your numbers.

I plan on keeping my Model 3 for 10 years (like every other car I’ve had). Estimating VERY conservatively I’ll save around 1K/year on gas and maintenance. Now the total cost given your starting numbers is 25K vs 30K

Adding in on top of these numbers are so many factors including the fact that the Model 3 actually gets BETTER over time because of automatic software updates, holds its value better than any car on the road, is incredibly fun to drive, is the safest car in the world, is better for the environment, etc. Honestly I could list 10 more reasons but this post would be too long

Looking at the price on the surface you could say “hey, that’s quite a difference” but in reality that’s just not true. Even with all the conservative estimates I just made (and not including the overwhelming positives about driving a Tesla) you are only talking about $5K over 10 years. That’s a payment I’m willing to make for a ton more enjoyment over a decade
1. Your numbers make sense...IFF (sic) your sticker was $40,000.
Helo80
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Helo80 »

Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:00 am
Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:00 pm
fareastwarriors wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:09 pm Then maybe an EV is not right for you Today. Maybe someday but not today. And that's okay.

You're right, one day, but that day is not today, tomorrow or next year. I'm going to let the free market get some more products on the road before I pull the plug on ICE.
Actually it is forced innovation.

Like WW2. Or the Space Programme. Or the Internet. Or the Covid-19 vaccine.

A number of countries will have phased out new ICE vehicles by 2035 or 2040. Manufacturers are scrambling to ready themselves for that new world.

What percentage of total new car sales are EV, right now?
Afty
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Afty »

Helo80 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:32 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:00 am
Helo80 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:00 pm
fareastwarriors wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:09 pm Then maybe an EV is not right for you Today. Maybe someday but not today. And that's okay.

You're right, one day, but that day is not today, tomorrow or next year. I'm going to let the free market get some more products on the road before I pull the plug on ICE.
Actually it is forced innovation.

Like WW2. Or the Space Programme. Or the Internet. Or the Covid-19 vaccine.

A number of countries will have phased out new ICE vehicles by 2035 or 2040. Manufacturers are scrambling to ready themselves for that new world.

What percentage of total new car sales are EV, right now?
Per https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/aut ... n-ev-sales#:

Global electric-light-vehicle sales, as % of total sales:
2015: 0.6%
2016: 0.9%
2017: 1.3%
2018: 2.2%
2019: 2.5%
Boglelicious123
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Boglelicious123 »

phxjcc wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:47 pm
Boglelicious123 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:23 am
phxjcc wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:50 pm
hunoraut wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:31 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:38 pm
:oops: This is getting hilarious. Great entertainment.
It's nauseating at times, reading this stuff.
Agree.

Math works.

Take a Model 3, base of $40,000.
Take an Accord, base of $25,000.

Now, do the math.

This is a lifestyle choice and the EV crowd is rationalizing a lifestyle choice.

The lack of self awareness is stunning.

Having said that, I want a 3/4 ton body on frame truck that can go 350 miles in desert heat or mountain cold per charge, towing 7K.

For $40,000.
With 300,000 of usable drivetrain life.
To replace my 1999 truck.
(That I paid $12,500 for 14 years ago)

I can buy that today—a nice used truck.
Elon’s “magic” truck?
It will be new, cost $100k, haul nothing, and have no practical use.
Your price disparity between the base Accord & Model 3 is an interesting thought experiment because it’s far more complex than just a starting price. I’ll ignore the facts that the base Model 3 goes for 38K and I have a significant state tax incentive in my state and we’ll play with your numbers.

I plan on keeping my Model 3 for 10 years (like every other car I’ve had). Estimating VERY conservatively I’ll save around 1K/year on gas and maintenance. Now the total cost given your starting numbers is 25K vs 30K

Adding in on top of these numbers are so many factors including the fact that the Model 3 actually gets BETTER over time because of automatic software updates, holds its value better than any car on the road, is incredibly fun to drive, is the safest car in the world, is better for the environment, etc. Honestly I could list 10 more reasons but this post would be too long

Looking at the price on the surface you could say “hey, that’s quite a difference” but in reality that’s just not true. Even with all the conservative estimates I just made (and not including the overwhelming positives about driving a Tesla) you are only talking about $5K over 10 years. That’s a payment I’m willing to make for a ton more enjoyment over a decade
1. Your numbers make sense...IFF (sic) your sticker was $40,000.
Just trying to put objective numbers out there for people who might not understand how EV’s work. Generally people think they do, but have no idea unless they actually own one

As for the sticker price, there are no negotiations on Tesla pricing. The price is the price so you place the order in about 5 minutes start to finish
Helo80
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: charging an EV

Post by Helo80 »

Boglelicious123 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:18 pm As for the sticker price, there are no negotiations on Tesla pricing. The price is the price so you place the order in about 5 minutes start to finish

On one hand, I can see BHs really liking that b/c they hem and haw about car negotiating as evidenced in many threads on the matter. On the other, setting one national price has not ended well --- look at Scion and Saturn.

People like to haggle.

PS - I personally love companies/people that burn "traditional business models" to the ground so that interesting case and business studies come from consumer transitions... but kind of like an S&P500 Index fund, I'm neither for nor against one price for all in the car industry.
Post Reply