Simplicity

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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abuss368
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Re: Simplicity

Post by abuss368 »

000 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:51 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:56 pm
000 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:42 pm I think excessive simplicity is another form of complexity.
Interesting. Please explain in more detail.
Two thoughts:

1. The process of simplification can itself be complex. For example, deciding which funds to keep and which to sell. Or, going through old documents and deciding which to keep and which to throw out. The simplest action may be to do nothing.

2. Getting rid of something that ends up being useful (had it been kept) in the future creates more complexity at that future point. Examples: selling an asset class that provides valuable diversification in the future, discarding old records that the owner later wishes he could consult, or throwing out tools/equipment that are later needed.
Those are valid thoughts and I would perhaps at a higher cost of things need to be repurchased.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Tejfyy
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Re: Simplicity

Post by Tejfyy »

I think a first and vital step is to address one's desire for "stuff," the fallout of consuming, which to me has spiritual and political dimensions, the latter of which includes my role as a human being on a planet suffocating from human consumption and waste.

Beyond that I say no much more than I say yes, making room for quality in life. I also relish emptiness, it's where the unexpected happens, where creativity can thrive.
Kelrex
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Re: Simplicity

Post by Kelrex »

000 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:51 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:56 pm
000 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:42 pm I think excessive simplicity is another form of complexity.
Interesting. Please explain in more detail.
Two thoughts:

1. The process of simplification can itself be complex. For example, deciding which funds to keep and which to sell. Or, going through old documents and deciding which to keep and which to throw out. The simplest action may be to do nothing.

2. Getting rid of something that ends up being useful (had it been kept) in the future creates more complexity at that future point. Examples: selling an asset class that provides valuable diversification in the future, discarding old records that the owner later wishes he could consult, or throwing out tools/equipment that are later needed.
Exactly.

There's a good reason most people don't live minimally, things build up over time and it takes work and energy to prevent that. You have to think about everything.

If downsizing, you have to consider every item, how much you might regret getting rid of it and whether it might be useful. To pare down A LOT, you have to be comfortable with the idea of possibly having to repurchase, rent, or borrow items in the future that you once owned. You simply can't keep everything that may someday be useful if you are planning on living in a smaller space.

Things also buildup over time, in order to maintain minimalism, you have to constantly assess and pare down what is no longer necessary.

Living simply isn't necessarily more complicated though, it's trading off certain complications for others. Sure, you can't just be lazy and let papers build up in the house, but on the flip side, you always know exactly where important papers are.

That said, there really is a difference between minimalism and organization. Marie Kondo is decidedly *not* a minimalist, she's an organizer who advocates to not bother keeping things you don't need or like so that you can effectively organize them. Minimalism is all about stoicism, while Kondo is all about decluttering so that you can get more access to the things you love and need.

Minimalism tends to be more organized by simple virtue of having less stuff, but I've been in some really suboptimal minimalist spaces that are very poorly organized, and personally, would rather live in a well-optimized Konmari'd space with a lot of stuff in it than a poorly optimized minimalist space where I can't find a can opener.

Which is simpler? Well, that really depends on what the individual personally finds complicated.

If cleaning and tidying their things is complicated to them, then minimalism might be better. If having to plan their life around possessing very little is complicated to them, then optimization may be the better option. If not knowing where anything in their house is, buying doubles of things when they can't be bothered to look for them, and dust aren't a concern for them, then it might be simplest to just let the stuff build up.
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SmallCityDave
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Re: Simplicity

Post by SmallCityDave »

Kelrex wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:22 am My life is extremely streamlined, and quite minimalist.

SO and I downsized to a one bedroom apartment, and have very few possessions that we don't actually need. It's systematically organized by function, not category, so the flow of day to day is optimized and incredibly easy.

There's virtually no looking for anything. Anything you could need is easy to find and close to where you would want it. I'm an expert on workflow and optimization, so I design my home that it's easier to put things away properly than to not. There is no mess, ever.

I have zero love of gardening, so there's no landscaping, no snow removal, no leaf raking, no gutters, or general outdoor maintenance. Also no HVAC or hot water heater in the unit to worry about, and parking is in a heated garage. Garbage goes down a chute and recycling has bins indoors, so there's no garbage days to remember.

There's also virtually no food waste. Before this week I had a food system that I built over years of curated recipes organized in an app that could generate weekly meal plans and shopping lists within 2-5 minutes. There was never a day that there wasn't a pre-portioned serving of something available to reheat for any given meal. As of this week, I've outsourced all of our cooking to a home chef who delivers, so that's even simpler.

Yes, I only wear one outfit 99.9% of the time, I almost exclusively wear merino wool, and yes, I can pack for a few weeks of travel in a backpack. A recent foray into wearing normal adult clothing for a new executive role ended after two days, yesterday was day 3 and I've already reverted to my "uniform". I also keep my head shaved for simplicity and minimalism.

As a result our evenings and weekends are largely free of hassles. It's not at all boring, it actually makes a lot of space for much more interesting things. We do a lot more with our evenings and weekends than most of our friends and colleagues.

Despite working very demanding jobs, we're pretty low stress and live quite balanced lifestyles as a result of being so unencumbered.

I get that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I certainly couldn't manage the insane demands of my work if home was also an energy suck of unrelenting tasks and stuff. SO and I often say it's like we live in a really nice, big hotel suite.
How interesting, would you mind sharing where you live, how much you pay for rent and how much you earn?
Kelrex
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Re: Simplicity

Post by Kelrex »

SmallCityDave wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:20 am
Kelrex wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:22 am My life is extremely streamlined, and quite minimalist.

SO and I downsized to a one bedroom apartment, and have very few possessions that we don't actually need. It's systematically organized by function, not category, so the flow of day to day is optimized and incredibly easy.

There's virtually no looking for anything. Anything you could need is easy to find and close to where you would want it. I'm an expert on workflow and optimization, so I design my home that it's easier to put things away properly than to not. There is no mess, ever.

I have zero love of gardening, so there's no landscaping, no snow removal, no leaf raking, no gutters, or general outdoor maintenance. Also no HVAC or hot water heater in the unit to worry about, and parking is in a heated garage. Garbage goes down a chute and recycling has bins indoors, so there's no garbage days to remember.

There's also virtually no food waste. Before this week I had a food system that I built over years of curated recipes organized in an app that could generate weekly meal plans and shopping lists within 2-5 minutes. There was never a day that there wasn't a pre-portioned serving of something available to reheat for any given meal. As of this week, I've outsourced all of our cooking to a home chef who delivers, so that's even simpler.

Yes, I only wear one outfit 99.9% of the time, I almost exclusively wear merino wool, and yes, I can pack for a few weeks of travel in a backpack. A recent foray into wearing normal adult clothing for a new executive role ended after two days, yesterday was day 3 and I've already reverted to my "uniform". I also keep my head shaved for simplicity and minimalism.

As a result our evenings and weekends are largely free of hassles. It's not at all boring, it actually makes a lot of space for much more interesting things. We do a lot more with our evenings and weekends than most of our friends and colleagues.

Despite working very demanding jobs, we're pretty low stress and live quite balanced lifestyles as a result of being so unencumbered.

I get that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I certainly couldn't manage the insane demands of my work if home was also an energy suck of unrelenting tasks and stuff. SO and I often say it's like we live in a really nice, big hotel suite.
How interesting, would you mind sharing where you live, how much you pay for rent and how much you earn?
I suppose, sure, but I'll give relative figures.
I'm in a major Canadian city where average housing cost is over a half million (including condos) and we bought for less than a quarter of that last year. Combined, we make hundreds of thousands per year, but my income is highly variable.

What info are you trying to glean from my answers, because maybe I could clarify better?
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abuss368
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Re: Simplicity

Post by abuss368 »

Tejfyy wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:10 pm I think a first and vital step is to address one's desire for "stuff," the fallout of consuming, which to me has spiritual and political dimensions, the latter of which includes my role as a human being on a planet suffocating from human consumption and waste.

Beyond that I say no much more than I say yes, making room for quality in life. I also relish emptiness, it's where the unexpected happens, where creativity can thrive.
That is well said I can identify with that.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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