Refinance Mega Thread

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zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

bgh11 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:39 pm
zrzhu111 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:33 pm Should i try to pay down loan balance a little more, so i can have 50% LTV. Will i have a better chance of getting better rates?
Keep in mind, small loan size <200k often hard to get a good rate. Even at 70% LTV can get some decent offers depending on loan size, location, w2 income, etc.
Thanks. I will have around $350k loan for 50% LTV. the reasoning i'm asking is Owning seems gives better rates on 50% LTV or lower based on what I read. Is this true?
jbuzolich
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jbuzolich »

zrzhu111 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:22 pm
jbuzolich wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:12 pm Started a refinance request with Owning yesterday. First call back failed so I worked with them today in a chat portal instead. Rates on their website were listed as down below 2.4%. Chat agent came back with offers for me at some good rates but one was $3000 in costs and the other was $6000 in costs. Seemed high! I emailed asking for clarification if that was actually costs or including prepaid items. 57% LTV. The agent also stated that they are no longer offering no cost refinance loans. The $3000 cost option was 2.625%.

I would prefer low or no cost so I guess I'll be trying other lenders.
Thanks for sharing. I wanted to get started with Owning with no cost. Can you keep us updated on the rates with no costs (if they can still do it)? Thanks.
The rep who gave me the quote today from Owning said they are no longer offering no cost refi for anyone. Only option given to me were either one point or two points in fees but then they pay all other expenses.

Not an official quote but the online application calculator at Better tonight was showing no cost refi available for 3%
Ignis
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ignis »

Ignis wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:12 am Looks like I will be closing 9/8 on my 2.625% 30 year FRM (~70% LTV, $290k loan including escrows/prepaids rolled in).

A+B+C+E= $2221
Lender Credit = $2371
Difference: -$150

I've had a payment since my initial LE so I will actually end up with a check for about $750 when all is said and done, which is fine with me.

My timeline:

8/10 - Received initial Lender Estimate
8/13 - Received locked rate Lender Estimate
9/03 - Received Closing Disclosure

9/08 - Closing Date from CD (haven't heard from title company/notary yet...)
9/14 - Disbursement Date
Update:

LenderFi failed to provide loan documents to the Title company in a timely manner and pushed my closing to today, 9/10. Disbursement date will be 9/15.
skierincolorado
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by skierincolorado »

GoodOmens wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:21 pm
skierincolorado wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:14 pm
GoodOmens wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:38 pm Yikes - was given a Title and Closing cost from LC at $1800 (Section C). LenderFi was aprox $775.

Anyone know a good third party to check for Title and Closing? Emailed Radian and they are only doing quotes if they have an active relationship with the lender, and LC was not one of them. Awaiting on Amrock (LenderFi's company)

LF: 2.75, $1400 credit to cover A+B+C+D+E
LC: 2.5, $1100 credit, A+B+C+D+E= $2337

So If I could lower LC by even $800~$1000, going with LC would begin to make sense.

$283k loan.
If I'm doing the math right the breakeven on those two offers is 18 months. I might already be going with LC. Lowering by even $500 would make the decision easy.
How'd you come to 18 months? I'm getting about 32 months to break even.

LF A-E: 0 after credit.
LC A-E: ~1237 after credit, so LC is $1237 more expensive to close.

2.5% loan would be ~ $37 less a month then the 2.75. What am I missing (Honest question, not a financial wiz).
You're missing that the interest portion of your payment is even smaller and more of your payment will go towards principal. The payment will only get $37 smaller, but the amount of interest you pay each month will go down by about $70. If you care about your net-worth, or the size of the check you receive when you sell the house or do a cash out refinance, this is the number that matters. If you have a short-term spending crunch to meet, I could see how the payment size is what matters - but then bogleheads probably isn't the right forum for someone like that ;)

Bankrate has a pretty good calculator. Column 1 is the breakeven based on the payment alone. Columns 2-4 pertain to your net worth. Be sure to set the tax rate to 0% if you don't itemize.
https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mo ... lator.aspx

The logical next question I had was if more of the payment is going to principal, how is the term still 30 years. It's because later in the loan term, the payments on both loans become nearly 100% principal and the loan with the larger payment size catches up such that the payoff date is still the same.
Last edited by skierincolorado on Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Calirefi2020
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Calirefi2020 »

bgh11 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:57 pm
Goal33 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:51 pm
ossipago wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:12 pm
Calirefi2020 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:03 pm
jfmiii wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:04 pm Anyone have any luck on sub-3% jumbo 30yr FRM refis? I’m in IL. Thanks!
I’m locked in with LD at 2.625% on $620k refi in CA
I'm guessing this is a super conforming loan in a high-cost area (sellable to Fannie/Freddie) and not actually a jumbo.
I sure hope so otherwise I made a mistake paying down my loan
higher conforming limits for certain areas https://www.fhfa.gov/DataTools/Tools/Pa ... s-Map.aspx
Yes, mine is not technically jumbo loan..I’m in San Diego County which has higher loan limit
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

jbuzolich wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:35 pm
zrzhu111 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:22 pm
jbuzolich wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:12 pm Started a refinance request with Owning yesterday. First call back failed so I worked with them today in a chat portal instead. Rates on their website were listed as down below 2.4%. Chat agent came back with offers for me at some good rates but one was $3000 in costs and the other was $6000 in costs. Seemed high! I emailed asking for clarification if that was actually costs or including prepaid items. 57% LTV. The agent also stated that they are no longer offering no cost refinance loans. The $3000 cost option was 2.625%.

I would prefer low or no cost so I guess I'll be trying other lenders.
Thanks for sharing. I wanted to get started with Owning with no cost. Can you keep us updated on the rates with no costs (if they can still do it)? Thanks.
The rep who gave me the quote today from Owning said they are no longer offering no cost refi for anyone. Only option given to me were either one point or two points in fees but then they pay all other expenses.

Not an official quote but the online application calculator at Better tonight was showing no cost refi available for 3%
Thanks. The rates on Owning site now are 2.375% and 2.474% APR. Why you got 2.625% with $3k cost? is it because your LTV is higher than 50%? I would assume that they would give you 2.375% rate and the $3k cost pushes the APR to 2.474%. My LTV is above 50% now. Thinking about paying down to 50% LTV and hope i'll get better rate.
mrmicro
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mrmicro »

I understand this is a very subjective question, but what would you guys choose between
1. 2.5% (30 year) with enough lender credits to cover costs + some extra
2. 2.375 (30 year) with some cost

The break-even point for me based on the interest is around 40 months. This is a long enough time frame that I feel I should go with the 2.5% option. Sounds right or should I still be selecting 2.375 assuming I would be in for a long haul. Thanks
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mrmicro wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:52 pm I understand this is a very subjective question, but what would you guys choose between
1. 2.5% (30 year) with enough lender credits to cover costs + some extra
2. 2.375 (30 year) with some cost

The break-even point for me based on the interest is around 40 months. This is a long enough time frame that I feel I should go with the 2.5% option. Sounds right or should I still be selecting 2.375 assuming I would be in for a long haul. Thanks
At 40 months, I would personally choose the 2.5%. Or better yet, shop that 2.375% elsewhere to get the cost down.
mega317
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

Regarding Owning: I was also told today they are no longer offering no cost. Advertised rates on their site went down but it’s apples to oranges.

I did just sign closing docs with them today but have not wired money—they don’t have the final payoff number. Also I was discussing issues with my documentation this morning so still underwriting I guess?
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

mrmicro wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:52 pm I understand this is a very subjective question, but what would you guys choose between
1. 2.5% (30 year) with enough lender credits to cover costs + some extra
2. 2.375 (30 year) with some cost

The break-even point for me based on the interest is around 40 months. This is a long enough time frame that I feel I should go with the 2.5% option. Sounds right or should I still be selecting 2.375 assuming I would be in for a long haul. Thanks
2.5% for me
BHLearner2020
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BHLearner2020 »

I wanted an opinion, my refinance company messed up on the closing document (multiple times). The deed had Condominium Rider listed instead of Planned Unit, they had me sign the Condominium paper as well as hazard insurance for condominium. I had mentioned this to the LO during the initial loan estimate to have it corrected. The lock is expiring tomorrow. Should i continue with the refinance or should i just send them the cancellation notice and try with another lender. Thank you in advance.
coconutpolito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by coconutpolito »

easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

BHLearner2020 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:36 am I wanted an opinion, my refinance company messed up on the closing document (multiple times). The deed had Condominium Rider listed instead of Planned Unit, they had me sign the Condominium paper as well as hazard insurance for condominium. I had mentioned this to the LO during the initial loan estimate to have it corrected. The lock is expiring tomorrow. Should i continue with the refinance or should i just send them the cancellation notice and try with another lender. Thank you in advance.
The lender should be able to extend the lock as it sounds like their mistake causes the delay. Unless their is a better offer from another lender, starting with another lender now means more waiting time. Who is the lender?
iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
Can you share the lender please?
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:41 pm
Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:08 pm
Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm
LPCes81 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm

I'm still waiting to close with Better since Late July. I got a $3700 lender credit because they wanted to beat Lenderfi. I never heard of a $2500 Amex credit until now but is that on top of other credits?
The Amex credit was a deal offered by Quicken Loans and Better. If you started an application by July 25th and close by some time in October and have an Amex card, Amex will give you a $2,500 credit to your card balance. This is completely separate from the lender credits on the loan itself. Talk to your Better rep and ask if you can apply for the Amex credit. If you applied with Better before July 25 and had an Amex card (not an affiliate like an airline or hotel card) by then, you might be eligible.
I was told by the initial salesguy at Better that my Hilton honors amex card was eligible. Is this not the case? I'm still working towards the finish line with Better.com. If not I have another Amex card I could use.
Every time I've heard it mentioned, it was quite clear that it had to be a straight-Amex branded card. Your Better rep should be able to confirm.
The better guy was hedging with words like "should." I called AMEX today and verified that it does qualify. I have an Amex blue card too - perhaps should have used that just to be sure.
Closing today with Better. $1800 in lender credits will put $900 in my pocket after costs. Also should receive the Amex credit. So kind of a long process but will pay off. 2.875% on a 30, so there may be room to do this again soon too.
Johny
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Johny »

This is from a comment on an article on the mortgage news daily website this morning 9/11/20:

"Ted Rood

Mortgage Banker, The Federal Savings Bank

I'm seeing the .5% "refi tax" coming back into play on rate sheets. Remember, lenders have to pay it on refinances over 125K on loans sent to Fannie/Freddie Dec 1 or later. Since the delivery process can take place several weeks after closing, to be safe, most lenders are adding the charge back in sooner rather than later. Pricing still good, but as Matt said, we're nowhere near early August levels, and bond markets would have to improve markedly to even get close to that now, at least for refis."
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
I’m not surprised that you’ve found the 25-year more expensive than the 30-year. The 30-years are more marketable and thus, greater competition to keep prices down. Even if you wanted to pay it in 25 years, I’d take the 30-year and pay more than the minimum due.
Johny wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:24 am This is from a comment on an article on the mortgage news daily website this morning 9/11/20:

"Ted Rood

Mortgage Banker, The Federal Savings Bank

I'm seeing the .5% "refi tax" coming back into play on rate sheets. Remember, lenders have to pay it on refinances over 125K on loans sent to Fannie/Freddie Dec 1 or later. Since the delivery process can take place several weeks after closing, to be safe, most lenders are adding the charge back in sooner rather than later. Pricing still good, but as Matt said, we're nowhere near early August levels, and bond markets would have to improve markedly to even get close to that now, at least for refis."
Interestingly, I found pricing for my loan improved in the past 10 days. I’ve now increased my lender credits by $1,000 to more than cover my closing costs and suspect a lender I spoke to last night will actually offer another $700 in lender credits (they offered it and said they locked me in, but I’m waiting for the loan estimate to say that). Weird as I have only a $150k 50% LTV loan.
Astronaut4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Astronaut4 »

Hi, new member here. Signed up to participate in this thread and learn all I can. Started a refi with better and waiting for response. Also working with local mortgage broker. Hope to see some good numbers like you guys are getting.
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batpot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by batpot »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:37 am
Johny wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:24 am This is from a comment on an article on the mortgage news daily website this morning 9/11/20:

"Ted Rood

Mortgage Banker, The Federal Savings Bank

I'm seeing the .5% "refi tax" coming back into play on rate sheets. Remember, lenders have to pay it on refinances over 125K on loans sent to Fannie/Freddie Dec 1 or later. Since the delivery process can take place several weeks after closing, to be safe, most lenders are adding the charge back in sooner rather than later. Pricing still good, but as Matt said, we're nowhere near early August levels, and bond markets would have to improve markedly to even get close to that now, at least for refis."
Interestingly, I found pricing for my loan improved in the past 10 days. I’ve now increased my lender credits by $1,000 to more than cover my closing costs and suspect a lender I spoke to last night will actually offer another $700 in lender credits (they offered it and said they locked me in, but I’m waiting for the loan estimate to say that). Weird as I have only a $150k 50% LTV loan.
Not seeing it today, either.
Been sporadically monitoring https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/mortgage-rates/ and https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/#/location for an aggregate "best rate", and it hasn't changed much since yesterday. It is interesting how some lender will pop to the top of the list at certain times during the day...Semper had a no fee 2.5% loan yesterday, but haven't gotten the LE yet.

Some lenders, maybe, are increasing their rates, but it's far from a trend at this point.
easye418
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by easye418 »

coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
Incredible. I've called around other lenders, I am still hitting the 2.875% no cost for here in TX.

Does anyone feel like they are the only ones who get lost in the black hole of lender's voicemails while everyone else is scoring unreal rates? Because I do.
b2bserver
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by b2bserver »

I'm rate locked with Better and they just said I'm preliminary approved to close. However, rates have dropped since I locked and now I'm debating what to do.

Loan: 382k with 75% LTV in IL @ 3.875%

Better (locked):
30 fixed, A+B+C+E = $1600, no appraisal
1. 2.875% w/ $1100 credit. total closing = $500 cost
2. 3.000% w/ $2900 credit. total closing = $1300 credit (does this go into escrow?)

LenderFi:
30 fixed, A+B+C+E = $1300, no appraisal
1. 2.750% w/ $800 credit. total closing: $500 cost

Waiting on New American Funding and Loan Depot for updated rates but they were similar to Better when I locked. LC had the lowest according to their online calc (2.35%) but I still haven't hear back from them officially and doesn't sound like I will anytime soon.

I'll definitely send the LF LE to Better to see if they can match but I'm already locked so I don't have my hopes up. If they won't budge, I'm considering some options:

1. Finish the refi w/ Better (2.875 or 3?) and start a new refi right after. Maybe I'll finally hear back from LC by then
2. Bail on Better and go with LF. Saves me 0.125% but pushes closing out so might not be able to get a refi in before the 0.5% fee
3. Wait for LC to get back to me, then decide. Big unknown is how long LC will take and if they are actually lower. If they take too long, I could lose the Better lock or LF rates have changed
InvestDoc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

:?:
mega317 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:09 am Regarding Owning: I was also told today they are no longer offering no cost. Advertised rates on their site went down but it’s apples to oranges.

I did just sign closing docs with them today but have not wired money—they don’t have the final payoff number. Also I was discussing issues with my documentation this morning so still underwriting I guess?
How are you signing closing docs if they’re still in underwriting? Now I’m wondering if that’s what happened when I used them a couple months back, because I closed and the loan didn’t fund for 2 weeks. But I gave them a check based on the date I signed, which became a mess because they had to recalculate everything based on the funding date 2 weeks later and they calculated the prepaids wrong.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

About to close with better with my 2nd refi.
After some back and forth with LC and better.

Closing at 2.5% 20 years with $4,700 lender credit. No escrow.
Appraisal waiver.

Enough lender credit to cover closing cost and Section F property tax since its due soon anyways.

If my math is correct. I should still walk away with a couple hundred plus having my property tax paid for from lender credit.

Win for me.
Next goal is to refi to a 15 year if rates can drop sub 2 without cost.
mega317
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

InvestDoc wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:26 am :?:
mega317 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:09 am Regarding Owning: I was also told today they are no longer offering no cost. Advertised rates on their site went down but it’s apples to oranges.

I did just sign closing docs with them today but have not wired money—they don’t have the final payoff number. Also I was discussing issues with my documentation this morning so still underwriting I guess?
How are you signing closing docs if they’re still in underwriting? Now I’m wondering if that’s what happened when I used them a couple months back, because I closed and the loan didn’t fund for 2 weeks. But I gave them a check based on the date I signed, which became a mess because they had to recalculate everything based on the funding date 2 weeks later and they calculated the prepaids wrong.
Yep someone else posted a few pages ago this happened with them also. When did you pay them, on closing day? Because I signed yesterday but haven't given them a dime. Processor said not to wire money until they get the final payoff number. The cash to close on my disclosure is still way off, I think the payoff number doesn't reflect my September payment maybe.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
mega317
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

b2bserver wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:01 am Loan: 382k with 75% LTV in IL @ 3.875%

Better (locked):
30 fixed, A+B+C+E = $1600, no appraisal
1. 2.875% w/ $1100 credit. total closing = $500 cost
2. 3.000% w/ $2900 credit. total closing = $1300 credit (does this go into escrow?)

LenderFi:
30 fixed, A+B+C+E = $1300, no appraisal
1. 2.750% w/ $800 credit. total closing: $500 cost

Waiting on New American Funding and Loan Depot for updated rates but they were similar to Better when I locked. LC had the lowest according to their online calc (2.35%) but I still haven't hear back from them officially and doesn't sound like I will anytime soon.

I'll definitely send the LF LE to Better to see if they can match but I'm already locked so I don't have my hopes up. If they won't budge, I'm considering some options:

1. Finish the refi w/ Better (2.875 or 3?) and start a new refi right after. Maybe I'll finally hear back from LC by then
2. Bail on Better and go with LF. Saves me 0.125% but pushes closing out so might not be able to get a refi in before the 0.5% fee
3. Wait for LC to get back to me, then decide. Big unknown is how long LC will take and if they are actually lower. If they take too long, I could lose the Better lock or LF rates have changed
When would the break even be? I think you can cross off 2.8 with Better since you have 2.7 with same closing costs. So is it worth paying 1800 to go from 3.0 to 2.7? Probably close, but do the math. I wouldn't worry about delaying closing. It seems like we are near the end of the road with these rates and at your loan size 1/8 isn't a huge deal.

Edit: If my math is right, 3% is a payment of $1610, 2.75% payment is $1559. Difference of $51. If the difference in costs is +1300 vs -500 you are talking about a 3 year break even. Only you can prevent forest fires and decide if this works for you.
Last edited by mega317 on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
GoodOmens
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GoodOmens »

skierincolorado wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:55 pm
GoodOmens wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:21 pm
skierincolorado wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:14 pm
GoodOmens wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:38 pm Yikes - was given a Title and Closing cost from LC at $1800 (Section C). LenderFi was aprox $775.

Anyone know a good third party to check for Title and Closing? Emailed Radian and they are only doing quotes if they have an active relationship with the lender, and LC was not one of them. Awaiting on Amrock (LenderFi's company)

LF: 2.75, $1400 credit to cover A+B+C+D+E
LC: 2.5, $1100 credit, A+B+C+D+E= $2337

So If I could lower LC by even $800~$1000, going with LC would begin to make sense.

$283k loan.
If I'm doing the math right the breakeven on those two offers is 18 months. I might already be going with LC. Lowering by even $500 would make the decision easy.
How'd you come to 18 months? I'm getting about 32 months to break even.

LF A-E: 0 after credit.
LC A-E: ~1237 after credit, so LC is $1237 more expensive to close.

2.5% loan would be ~ $37 less a month then the 2.75. What am I missing (Honest question, not a financial wiz).
You're missing that the interest portion of your payment is even smaller and more of your payment will go towards principal. The payment will only get $37 smaller, but the amount of interest you pay each month will go down by about $70. If you care about your net-worth, or the size of the check you receive when you sell the house or do a cash out refinance, this is the number that matters. If you have a short-term spending crunch to meet, I could see how the payment size is what matters - but then bogleheads probably isn't the right forum for someone like that ;)

Bankrate has a pretty good calculator. Column 1 is the breakeven based on the payment alone. Columns 2-4 pertain to your net worth. Be sure to set the tax rate to 0% if you don't itemize.
https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mo ... lator.aspx

The logical next question I had was if more of the payment is going to principal, how is the term still 30 years. It's because later in the loan term, the payments on both loans become nearly 100% principal and the loan with the larger payment size catches up such that the payoff date is still the same.
Cool - makes perfect sense, and explains more how the interest between the two is more than $37 a month over 30 years. Thanks for the details! More food for thought - also got a more reasonable quote on title closing that's about ~$500 less.

I'm going to see if LenderFi will float down to 2.625, given what's been posted that might not happen.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
what lender?
ossipago
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ossipago »

Can you lock with two lenders?

Is there any reason to do so, if the rates are the same and appraisal is waived in both cases? E.g. concerns over time to close?

Does it matter at all if one lender is a broker (i.e. LenderFi) and another is a direct lender (e.g. Loan Depot)?
atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

Hello,

I have the below 2 quotes and am looking for suggestions on which one would y’all suggest?

Loan amount: 265k
State: TX

Option 1:
2.875% 30yr fixed,
$60k cashout
Duration to close: >60days per lender
Closing cost: 0 (all fees offset by lender credit)

Option 2:
2.625% 30yr fixed
NO CASHOUT
Duration to close: 30-40 days
Closing cost: $300 (including prepaids)

Would it help (lower 3rd party fees, lower rate, etc) if I refi with option 2 (no cashout) and immediately after closing, apply for a cash out refi? (Assuming rates are about the same then).

Texas has a restriction that I cannot refinance a cashout refi until 12 months.
Last edited by atx1202 on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

ossipago wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:13 am Can you lock with two lenders?

Is there any reason to do so, if the rates are the same and appraisal is waived in both cases? E.g. concerns over time to close?

Does it matter at all if one lender is a broker (i.e. LenderFi) and another is a direct lender (e.g. Loan Depot)?
Yes, you can.

I was actually locked with 3 lenders. But at the end. Better came out victorious.
atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

Familyman2012 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:23 am
ossipago wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:13 am Can you lock with two lenders?

Is there any reason to do so, if the rates are the same and appraisal is waived in both cases? E.g. concerns over time to close?

Does it matter at all if one lender is a broker (i.e. LenderFi) and another is a direct lender (e.g. Loan Depot)?
Yes, you can.

I was actually locked with 3 lenders. But at the end. Better came out victorious.
Is there a rate lock fee with LD, LF when the appraisal is waived? Just wondering how lenders would lock the rate without a blackout penalty? Sorry, I’m just starting to refinance for the first time ever.
gilberto_rebelo
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gilberto_rebelo »

coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
Which lender please?
InvestDoc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

mega317 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:58 am
InvestDoc wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:26 am :?:
mega317 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:09 am Regarding Owning: I was also told today they are no longer offering no cost. Advertised rates on their site went down but it’s apples to oranges.

I did just sign closing docs with them today but have not wired money—they don’t have the final payoff number. Also I was discussing issues with my documentation this morning so still underwriting I guess?
How are you signing closing docs if they’re still in underwriting? Now I’m wondering if that’s what happened when I used them a couple months back, because I closed and the loan didn’t fund for 2 weeks. But I gave them a check based on the date I signed, which became a mess because they had to recalculate everything based on the funding date 2 weeks later and they calculated the prepaids wrong.
Yep someone else posted a few pages ago this happened with them also. When did you pay them, on closing day? Because I signed yesterday but haven't given them a dime. Processor said not to wire money until they get the final payoff number. The cash to close on my disclosure is still way off, I think the payoff number doesn't reflect my September payment maybe.
They told me I had to give a cashiers check to the notary who came to my house for closing, which I didn’t question as I thought the disbursement date listed (3 days after signing) was going to be accurate. My loan team never told me that it would take 2 weeks to disburse the funds after closing. You’re in a better situation for being able to review the numbers for the exact day of funding before sending a check. Since they already had my money and my signatures on the closing disclosures, I had to call them multiple times to get the numbers corrected when they overcharged me on interest on the final statement. I finally got the refund back but it was a pain to get them to send a check.

You mention a final payoff number, so maybe they’re waiting for your September payment to post to recalculate everything. I signed my papers a week before the end of the month but when the disbursement was delayed after the first of the month I kept calling Owning to find out when it would disburse so that my old lender wouldn’t register a late payment. My loan officer had no idea when the loan would disburse and didn’t seem to care that their delay was pushing the limit for when I could make my monthly payment. They basically told me that it was my choice whether to send the payment due to the old lender (or be faced with late fees while waiting for the payoff to be sent). They finally ended up sending the money a day or two before my old lender would have charged late fees for that month.
b2bserver
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by b2bserver »

mega317 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:00 am
b2bserver wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:01 am Loan: 382k with 75% LTV in IL @ 3.875%

Better (locked):
30 fixed, A+B+C+E = $1600, no appraisal
1. 2.875% w/ $1100 credit. total closing = $500 cost
2. 3.000% w/ $2900 credit. total closing = $1300 credit (does this go into escrow?)

LenderFi:
30 fixed, A+B+C+E = $1300, no appraisal
1. 2.750% w/ $800 credit. total closing: $500 cost

Waiting on New American Funding and Loan Depot for updated rates but they were similar to Better when I locked. LC had the lowest according to their online calc (2.35%) but I still haven't hear back from them officially and doesn't sound like I will anytime soon.

I'll definitely send the LF LE to Better to see if they can match but I'm already locked so I don't have my hopes up. If they won't budge, I'm considering some options:

1. Finish the refi w/ Better (2.875 or 3?) and start a new refi right after. Maybe I'll finally hear back from LC by then
2. Bail on Better and go with LF. Saves me 0.125% but pushes closing out so might not be able to get a refi in before the 0.5% fee
3. Wait for LC to get back to me, then decide. Big unknown is how long LC will take and if they are actually lower. If they take too long, I could lose the Better lock or LF rates have changed
When would the break even be? I think you can cross off 2.8 with Better since you have 2.7 with same closing costs. So is it worth paying 1800 to go from 3.0 to 2.7? Probably close, but do the math. I wouldn't worry about delaying closing. It seems like we are near the end of the road with these rates and at your loan size 1/8 isn't a huge deal.

Edit: If my math is right, 3% is a payment of $1610, 2.75% payment is $1559. Difference of $51. If the difference in costs is +1300 vs -500 you are talking about a 3 year break even. Only you can prevent forest fires and decide if this works for you.
I just heard back from LF and they're now offering 2.625% w/ $1300 credit making it no cost. However, it was verbal only and they won't update the LE until after I lock (sign some docs and put in a deposit).

Seems like if that rate is as promised, the best steps would be to lock with LF, wait for their updated LE, see if Better will match then go with whoever is lowest?
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

Hi all,

FL resident here, 345K current loan, LTV 60%. Just got a 15 yr refinance loan estimate of 2.125% with no origination fees/points. I'm wondering if anyone has seen better than this or if I should lock in. Is it worth it to shop around, and if so who would beat it? Unfortunately this lender won't do no closing cost refinancing.

Loan cabin shows a 1.99 rate but they haven't responded since I applied last week, and I'm not sure if there would be additional fees.
Last edited by dks05c on Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
postal007
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by postal007 »

ossipago wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:13 am Can you lock with two lenders?

Is there any reason to do so, if the rates are the same and appraisal is waived in both cases? E.g. concerns over time to close?

Does it matter at all if one lender is a broker (i.e. LenderFi) and another is a direct lender (e.g. Loan Depot)?
There's nothing preventing you from locking with multiple lenders. The restrictions on the lock mainly apply to the lender, not the homeowner. I locked with Owning, Interactive Mortgage, and Loan Depot early last week. Owning moved by the far the fastest, signing on Monday if everything goes well, even before my apps were in processing at the other two. I'll plan to let the two know when I close to cancel/withdraw my app. But I thinking locking with multiple folks is smart - lock in a low rate now, and continue shopping for something better if some lender hasn't gotten back to you yet.
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sunny_socal
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sunny_socal »

Profile:
- Home value 625k
- Mortgage 457k
- Current rate 3.125, 30 years remaining (recent refi, but situation was complicated at the time so couldn't reach for better rate...)
- Central TX

We have a recent home sale and paid off our 2nd mortgage on existing home. None of these transactions are reflected on our credit report :|

Applied with these banks:
- Amerisave: Credit was frozen so application didn't go through. They kept calling me from some Indian call center, bad voice quality. Will drop it.
- Loan Cabin: Unfroze credit before start. Cumbersome application, not expecting much although their teaser rates look good. No preapproval.
- Lenderfi: Easy application, allowed me to exclude my paid-off mortgages. No preapproval, must wait.
- Better: Easiest application, excluded paid-off mortgages. Preapproved! But A+B+C = $6000, rate 2.75% with $1300 in points. Crappy deal IMO.

Credit score 760, LTV 73%, DTI ratio 21% Seems like we should be able to get a great rate, but I suspect that the 'bots' computing my custom rate don't truly take into account the paid-off mortgages.

May need to wait a while :annoyed
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:02 pm Profile:
- Home value 625k
- Mortgage 457k
- Current rate 3.125, 30 years remaining (recent refi, but situation was complicated at the time so couldn't reach for better rate...)
- Central TX

We have a recent home sale and paid off our 2nd mortgage on existing home. None of these transactions are reflected on our credit report :|

Applied with these banks:
- Amerisave: Credit was frozen so application didn't go through. They kept calling me from some Indian call center, bad voice quality. Will drop it.
- Loan Cabin: Unfroze credit before start. Cumbersome application, not expecting much although their teaser rates look good. No preapproval.
- Lenderfi: Easy application, allowed me to exclude my paid-off mortgages. No preapproval, must wait.
- Better: Easiest application, excluded paid-off mortgages. Preapproved! But A+B+C = $6000, rate 2.75% with $1300 in points. Crappy deal IMO.

Credit score 760, LTV 73%, DTI ratio 21% Seems like we should be able to get a great rate, but I suspect that the 'bots' computing my custom rate don't truly take into account the paid-off mortgages.

May need to wait a while :annoyed
I'm no expert but maybe go with a local lender to get down from the 3.125 as a starting point... you'll probably be doing a refinance more than once.
coconutpolito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by coconutpolito »

iridum wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:59 am
coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
Can you share the lender please?
Sent you a dm
User avatar
BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

b2bserver wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:01 am I'll definitely send the LF LE to Better to see if they can match but I'm already locked so I don't have my hopes up. If they won't budge, I'm considering some options:
Did you send that to your “processing expert”? On my current refi with Better, my processing expert is working on meeting/beating a competing offer for the 3rd time since I locked. If they do, I’ll be golden and happy to be done as this will put me at the same pricing as my prior refi.
InvestDoc wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:55 am You mention a final payoff number, so maybe they’re waiting for your September payment to post to recalculate everything. I signed my papers a week before the end of the month but when the disbursement was delayed after the first of the month I kept calling Owning to find out when it would disburse so that my old lender wouldn’t register a late payment. My loan officer had no idea when the loan would disburse and didn’t seem to care that their delay was pushing the limit for when I could make my monthly payment. They basically told me that it was my choice whether to send the payment due to the old lender (or be faced with late fees while waiting for the payoff to be sent). They finally ended up sending the money a day or two before my old lender would have charged late fees for that month.
Personally, I would always pay the old loan payment and just let the old lender send me an overage refund two weeks after payoff as it’s a much less stressful process.
dks05c wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:13 pm Hi all,

FL resident here, 345K current loan, LTV 60%. Just got a 15 yr refinance loan estimate of 2.125% with no origination fees/points. I'm wondering if anyone has seen better than this or if I should lock in. Is it worth it to shop around, and if so who would beat it? Unfortunately this lender won't do no closing cost refinancing.
Personally, whenever I get offered a good rate/cost package (and yours is a GREAT one!), I lock immediately. You can always continue to shop around with this as a fallback and not lose such a great offer.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

atx1202 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:27 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:23 am
ossipago wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:13 am Can you lock with two lenders?

Is there any reason to do so, if the rates are the same and appraisal is waived in both cases? E.g. concerns over time to close?

Does it matter at all if one lender is a broker (i.e. LenderFi) and another is a direct lender (e.g. Loan Depot)?
Yes, you can.

I was actually locked with 3 lenders. But at the end. Better came out victorious.
Is there a rate lock fee with LD, LF when the appraisal is waived? Just wondering how lenders would lock the rate without a blackout penalty? Sorry, I’m just starting to refinance for the first time ever.
I’m not sure with LD or LF. But with better, If you qualify for the appraisal waiver. You still have to pay $550 to lock. But it’s refundable if you decide to not go with them. If you do go with them, they refund the $550 during closing.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:28 pm
atx1202 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:27 am Is there a rate lock fee with LD, LF when the appraisal is waived? Just wondering how lenders would lock the rate without a blackout penalty? Sorry, I’m just starting to refinance for the first time ever.
I’m not sure with LD or LF. But with better, If you qualify for the appraisal waiver. You still have to pay $550 to lock. But it’s refundable if you decide to not go with them. If you do go with them, they refund the $550 during closing.
Loan Depot makes you pay their credit report fee to lock, so about $21. I wouldn’t bat an eye at paying it. In my prior refi, that $21 led me to getting an extra $1,000 off elsewhere. Well worth it!
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:37 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:28 pm
atx1202 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:27 am Is there a rate lock fee with LD, LF when the appraisal is waived? Just wondering how lenders would lock the rate without a blackout penalty? Sorry, I’m just starting to refinance for the first time ever.
I’m not sure with LD or LF. But with better, If you qualify for the appraisal waiver. You still have to pay $550 to lock. But it’s refundable if you decide to not go with them. If you do go with them, they refund the $550 during closing.
Loan Depot makes you pay their credit report fee to lock, so about $21. I wouldn’t bat an eye at paying it. In my prior refi, that $21 led me to getting an extra $1,000 off elsewhere. Well worth it!
I agree with you. For $21, I would pay it especially if you know you’re going to shop around still.

With Better, I paid the fee knowing it’s going to be refunded back to me weather i go with them or not because of the appraisal waiver.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:15 pm
b2bserver wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:01 am I'll definitely send the LF LE to Better to see if they can match but I'm already locked so I don't have my hopes up. If they won't budge, I'm considering some options:
Did you send that to your “processing expert”? On my current refi with Better, my processing expert is working on meeting/beating a competing offer for the 3rd time since I locked. If they do, I’ll be golden and happy to be done as this will put me at the same pricing as my prior refi.
InvestDoc wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:55 am You mention a final payoff number, so maybe they’re waiting for your September payment to post to recalculate everything. I signed my papers a week before the end of the month but when the disbursement was delayed after the first of the month I kept calling Owning to find out when it would disburse so that my old lender wouldn’t register a late payment. My loan officer had no idea when the loan would disburse and didn’t seem to care that their delay was pushing the limit for when I could make my monthly payment. They basically told me that it was my choice whether to send the payment due to the old lender (or be faced with late fees while waiting for the payoff to be sent). They finally ended up sending the money a day or two before my old lender would have charged late fees for that month.
Personally, I would always pay the old loan payment and just let the old lender send me an overage refund two weeks after payoff as it’s a much less stressful process.
dks05c wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:13 pm Hi all,

FL resident here, 345K current loan, LTV 60%. Just got a 15 yr refinance loan estimate of 2.125% with no origination fees/points. I'm wondering if anyone has seen better than this or if I should lock in. Is it worth it to shop around, and if so who would beat it? Unfortunately this lender won't do no closing cost refinancing.
Personally, whenever I get offered a good rate/cost package (and yours is a GREAT one!), I lock immediately. You can always continue to shop around with this as a fallback and not lose such a great offer.
Thanks for the note. I went ahead and locked in. I am a little jealous of everyone on here getting these huge credits to offset closing costs. Unfortunately Florida has big refinance taxes (2K) for me, so I'm probably looking at around 3K in closing costs, which I can either pay at closing or roll into the loan. That being said, we do plan on staying in the house long term, and I doubt I would ever refinance again.
BHLearner2020
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BHLearner2020 »

bgh11 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:54 am
BHLearner2020 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:36 am I wanted an opinion, my refinance company messed up on the closing document (multiple times). The deed had Condominium Rider listed instead of Planned Unit, they had me sign the Condominium paper as well as hazard insurance for condominium. I had mentioned this to the LO during the initial loan estimate to have it corrected. The lock is expiring tomorrow. Should i continue with the refinance or should i just send them the cancellation notice and try with another lender. Thank you in advance.
The lender should be able to extend the lock as it sounds like their mistake causes the delay. Unless their is a better offer from another lender, starting with another lender now means more waiting time. Who is the lender?
It's Watermark. The lender extended the the locked and closed today with corrections.
GoodOmens
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GoodOmens »

So question - are there any good articles on how exactly compies like LenderFi, Loan Cabin and Better make their money when they minimize the above the line charges (underwriting, origination etc) that typical banks use to guarantee some sort of return?

I know they sell loans into MBS for the profit - but at what discount? If it's a 100k loan do they sell it for like $10k, 20k or something? I assume the price fluctuates based on rate, term, credit worthiness etc. Just curious.
Puffy
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Puffy »

coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:10 pm
iridum wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:59 am
coconutpolito wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am
easye418 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:45 pm you guys are getting great rates.

In TX, LTV 78%, 2.875% 30 year, with a $2800 lender credit.
I was just offered a 30 yr for 2.5% (no closing costs) or a 25 yr loan for 2.625 (no closing costs). I'm in SoCal.
Can you share the lender please?
Sent you a dm
Hi, am in SoCal too, got quoted a 2.625 30yr. 2.5% sounds great! Could you let me know your lender info too? Thanks.
easye418
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by easye418 »

just locked 2.625% 30 year in TX with LenderFi.

:sharebeer

Started with 3.75%>3.25% no cost + $2500 AMEX credit> 2.625% no cost
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Not sure how quick other lenders will follow but just got this email from Better

“Lock now — prices go up on 9/21
As you may know, the FHFA has introduced a 0.5% fee on all refinance loans funded after November 30, 2020. That means you must lock a rate before September 21 to avoid additional costs.
The fee will raise the cost of refinancing by 0.5% of the loan amount — $1650 on average.

Rates are still near record lows, so don’t wait. Lock instantly online today — and lock in those savings.”
Janus887
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Janus887 »

I'm so confused seeing all these posts by people getting no costs refis (A+B+C+E=0) at rates well under 3%. I haven't been able to find anything approaching a deal like that, and I'm getting quotes from all the recommended lenders in this thread (Better, LenderFi, LoanCabin, LoanDepot). I'm seeing anywhere from $5-$10k in closing costs! I'm also being told lender credits are completely off the table. What the heck am I doing wrong here? This is with an 800+ credit score, a very high income to loan ratio and solid employment and assets to back the loan.

Is it simply a consequence of the loan being smaller? (Looking at about 135k). Or the state I'm in? (Florida).

Anyone have any ideas what could be going on here?
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