Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

Looking at today's market - the joy is over! :D
Seasonal
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Seasonal »

Carguy85 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:40 pm Everyone I talk to biz is crazy here in good ol middle America...record home sales, car dealerships are having record months. Construction trades are extremely busy. Manufacturing is busy. Most everyone is BUSY. Even a regional manager of fast food chains has had record months even the months without dining areas open. Talked to a hair stylist today... busy busy. Depending on where you live (east or west coast for instance) this certainly may not be the vibe.
Anecdotes and data.

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Dottie57
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Dottie57 »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:55 am
skor99 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:03 pm Market is setting new records everyday. In normal times, this would be a joyful time but this time feels different for obvious reasons. How long can this separation between the real world and the market persist ? Can anyone justify s&p 500 and nasdaq shattering records everyday and dow getting close to all time highs ?
How long can this separation between the real world and the market persist ?

As long as the government keeps propping up the market. According to some people, this can go on forever with no conquences (debt doesn't matter, inflation doesn't matter, etc). You be the judge.
This morning market down a lot. Happier?
Seasonal
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Seasonal »

In addition to the market not being the economy, the biggest companies by market cap are tech companies. They are a large percentage of the market and seem to have some of the highest returns. Both their workers and customers can be at home, which is an advantage under current conditions.
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Seasonal »

manatee2005 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:57 pmActually I would love record lows so I can buy more! I want record highs 1 minute before I retire.
Record lows only help if they lead to increased returns. If the market is lower because it accurately expects returns to be subpar, lower prices don't do much for you.
Fallible
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Fallible »

skor99 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:03 pm Market is setting new records everyday. In normal times, this would be a joyful time but this time feels different for obvious reasons. How long can this separation between the real world and the market persist ? Can anyone justify s&p 500 and nasdaq shattering records everyday and dow getting close to all time highs ?
Joy - defined as "a feeling of great pleasure and happiness" - is not what I've ever felt about a record-high stock market. It's simply too beautiful a word to apply to something that basically runs on fear and greed. It's nice to see the market doing well with my money, so I do feel some relief. But I know what follows and it's that I don't know what follows, other than, sooner or later, a record low.

Thanks to poster Jeff Albertson upthread for the article by Barry Ritholtz reminding us that "The unprecedented occurs all the time." That's the big picture, as his blog is aptly titled.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Looking for joy in all the wrong places?

I never considered that the stock market would be a place to seek joy. But I've only been investing in it for 46 years, so maybe it will show up unexpectedly one day.
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Cam894
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Cam894 »

Normchad wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 pm I have no problem justifying this stock market performance.

We are in a very business friendly environment. Interest rates are very low. Companies are sitting on mountains of cash.

And people have not stopped spending money. Housing sales are going nuts; as a sign that people are not afraid to spend money.

I agree it seems surreal, to simultaneously have so much bad news and uncertainty in the world, and also have an economy that is doing so well for so many.

I know though that a lot of people really are hurting; and may never recover. I'm not complaining, my life is going very well. But even I have been affected in tangible ways by this pandemic. So yes, my balance sheet is rocking, but there is no joy in it when I know how bad others are hurting.
Well said
mptfan
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by mptfan »

burritoLover wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:13 pmUnless you are not in the market, I'm not sure why you would be complaining about record highs? Would you rather it be record lows?
Those are not the only two options.
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22twain
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by 22twain »

What, you all don't enjoy the "Slingshot"? :twisted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1GMdjRLXHU
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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

manatee2005 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:27 pm
Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:03 pm
manatee2005 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:58 pm
Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:46 pm
Carguy85 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:40 pm Everyone I talk to biz is crazy here in good ol middle America...record home sales, car dealerships are having record months. Construction trades are extremely busy. Most everyone is BUSY. Even a regional manager of fast food chains has had record months even months without dining areas open. Talked to a hair stylist today... busy busy. Depending on where you live (east or west coast for instance) this certainly may not be the vibe.
They are gouging on cheap credit, I've seen more than a few examples of that level of spending going on here too. Not everyone, but this has the feel of the early 80's euphoria, but it's not going to last forever.
80s euphoria lasted till 2000 right?

They don't call them roaring 20s for nothing.
Not exactly, we did have recessions during that time. Interest rates were also high, as in very high! Today we have the opposite.
Doesn't matter, the stocks went up 4x in the 90s.
Then you live in an alternate space where only securities markets are what motivates you. Good luck to you.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Dottie57 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:45 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:55 am
skor99 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:03 pm Market is setting new records everyday. In normal times, this would be a joyful time but this time feels different for obvious reasons. How long can this separation between the real world and the market persist ? Can anyone justify s&p 500 and nasdaq shattering records everyday and dow getting close to all time highs ?
How long can this separation between the real world and the market persist ?

As long as the government keeps propping up the market. According to some people, this can go on forever with no conquences (debt doesn't matter, inflation doesn't matter, etc). You be the judge.
This morning market down a lot. Happier?
When the market dives enough to push out the fringe day traders and those margin calls come rolling in then yes, I’ll be happy. It’s those yahoos who are playing the casino game.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Chicken Little
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by Chicken Little »

brad.clarkston wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:35 pm When did this forum turn into a bunch of chicken little's? This much angst isn't good for your health.
Genuine article here.

No angst, just plan for everything. I don't sweat downturns, and am a buyer. I don't expect market to jump right back up to previous high, so if it doesn't, no problem.

Will we ever see real pain? Not sure, just know most aren't prepared (portfolio-wise) based on comments. Not by a longshot.

Why bother preparing for something that is unlikely? Is that "joy"?
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David Jay
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by David Jay »

Feeling better now, after today’s 3%-4% (depending on index) pullback?
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius
brad.clarkston
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by brad.clarkston »

Chicken Little wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:23 pm
brad.clarkston wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:35 pm When did this forum turn into a bunch of chicken little's? This much angst isn't good for your health.
Genuine article here.

No angst, just plan for everything. I don't sweat downturns, and am a buyer. I don't expect market to jump right back up to previous high, so if it doesn't, no problem.

Will we ever see real pain? Not sure, just know most aren't prepared (portfolio-wise) based on comments. Not by a longshot.

Why bother preparing for something that is unlikely? Is that "joy"?
lol, didn't know someone actually used the moniker :oops:
balbrec2
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by balbrec2 »

brad.clarkston wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:05 pm The joy is in doing more with your family or getting a hobby.

Constantly worrying of the market is just going to give you an ulcer. As long as your diversified across the index's who cares?
Agreed. Successful investing should be boring. Look for joy somewhere else.
livesoft
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Re: Where is the joy ? How long can this joyless ride last ?

Post by livesoft »

I don't use Facebook, but this thread seems like what happens on Facebook. We need lots more threads like this to make the market go up. Keep it up! Thank you!
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