Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

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AZPediatrician
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Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by AZPediatrician »

Hi all, I need your advice! I’m a self taught investor like most of you and have been following my 3 fund portfolio plan for about 5 years now. Got married 2 years ago and have always handled investments until this pandemic peaked my husband’s interest. I’m getting a lot of resistance from his side (he is trying to time the market, his knowledge on investing is limited to random articles online) and as a result we have a very large chunk of saved money that is sitting in the bank doing absolutely nothing for us, which makes me so anxious and frustrated!

We would like to start real estate investing in the future but I’m due to deliver our first baby any day now so that is currently on hold.

Any recommendations on what I could do for now with that money that is easy and low maintenance? I was thinking even just putting into a bond index fund would be less “risky” in his eyes and at least earn us something. Online savings account rates have dropped so low but I’m considering that as an option too. Any other recs?
dbr
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by dbr »

There are pretty much no alternatives for low risk placements of money that return more than piffulous amounts. CDs paying 5% are long gone. Even worse the yield curve is fairly flat right now so looking at longer maturity bonds isn't worth it. https://stockcharts.com/freecharts/yieldcurve.php

You can read through the dozens of threads currently running that are variations on a theme here.

One feature of real estate now is that mortgage rates are also low. Speculating on future interest rates or real estate values is tough.
livesoft
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by livesoft »

Have the baby first! Congratulations!

Worry about investing later.
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BlueCable
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by BlueCable »

Would it help if "your investment plan" was "our investment plan"? Maybe if he was more involved in the process he'd be onboard with the Boglehead approach.

I would start by investing in the book "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing," "The Four Pillars of Investing," or "A Random Walk Down Wall Street" and read it with my spouse as a family book club. Next, we would write an Investment Policy Statement for the family. Maybe that IPS includes a "husband market timing fund" that is limited to less than 5% of the portfolio. Then, I would start executing that strategy.

I would keep this disputed money in cash (short term bond fund or something like a no-penalty CD at Marcus bank) until the steps above were complete.
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ruralavalon
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by ruralavalon »

Congratulations on the imminent birth of your first child :) .

AZPediatrician wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pm Hi all, I need your advice! I’m a self taught investor like most of you and have been following my 3 fund portfolio plan for about 5 years now. Got married 2 years ago and have always handled investments until this pandemic peaked my husband’s interest. I’m getting a lot of resistance from his side (he is trying to time the market, his knowledge on investing is limited to random articles online) and as a result we have a very large chunk of saved money that is sitting in the bank doing absolutely nothing for us, which makes me so anxious and frustrated!

We would like to start real estate investing in the future but I’m due to deliver our first baby any day now so that is currently on hold.

Any recommendations on what I could do for now with that money that is easy and low maintenance? I was thinking even just putting into a bond index fund would be less “risky” in his eyes and at least earn us something. Online savings account rates have dropped so low but I’m considering that as an option too. Any other recs?
For a cash-like savings vehicle consider Marcus/Goldman Sachs high-yield on line savings at 0.80%, or 3 year or 5 year CD. See: www.bankrate.com.

See if you can get him to read a good book about investing, something like "Winning the Losers Game" by Charles Ellis.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
delamer
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by delamer »

Ask him to take 30 minutes to read “If You Can” with an open mind: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf

And then discuss it with you.

That might help bring him around.
MathWizard
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by MathWizard »

Max out your tax deferred options, and have him as well. Let him make his own decision and you make yours.
Between 2 401k's and 2 IRAs you can sock a lot of money away. These are individual accounts, so make the choices individually.
All the 401k's that I know just have funds of one kind or another, do not allow day-trading, and greatly limit the number of
times you can move money back and forth. That would tend to help with the active investing on hot tips.

After 10 years, look back to see how you both are doing. I suspect that he will lag behind you because of fees,
but perhaps not by much. Then he may come around to your way of thinking.

My wife did not want to use tax deferred (no match anyway) but I made sure our ROTHs were filled up most years
(expect when the kids were in college). She liked the fact that we could pull contributions if needed, so we did not tie
up principal long-term.
mptfan
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by mptfan »

Is this joint money, as opposed to pre-marital investments owned by one of you before the marriage? What type of account is it, a regular savings account? A retirement account? How much money are we talking about? What percentage does it represent of your combined portfolio? When will you need this money, is it earmarked for retirement? How old are each of you?
inbox788
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by inbox788 »

AZPediatrician wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pmwe have a very large chunk of saved money that is sitting in the bank doing absolutely nothing for us, which makes me so anxious and frustrated!

We would like to start real estate investing in the future but I’m due to deliver our first baby any day now so that is currently on hold.

Any recommendations on what I could do for now with that money that is easy and low maintenance? I was thinking even just putting into a bond index fund would be less “risky” in his eyes and at least earn us something. Online savings account rates have dropped so low but I’m considering that as an option too. Any other recs?
Take a deep breath, and don't worry yet. Nothing is good for the moment. It may not appear so, but when the volatility ticks up, you'll be glad it's doing nothing. The market could see a 20% gain or a 20% loss, and will sooner or later, but right now, you've got other things to worry about.

Together, make a budget and figure out your priorities. How much of the chunk is for new expenses and emergency fund, how much you need for real estate (home or income property? timeframe?), what's long term retirement investing, and anything else (be as specific in amount and time as you can).

Big Banks Start Charging Clients for Euro Deposits
BNY Mellon, Credit Suisse and J.P. Morgan Among Banks Beginning Practice
https://www.wsj.com/articles/big-banks- ... 1413569321

There are no good short term places to keep cash, and not going negative is good enough for now. Once you can commit certain amounts to a longer time, explore CDs and other safer investment for short-mid range goals. You can try duration matching, but that's not going to improve returns all that much in the current environment. Do what you can to add any remaining funds into your 3-fund portfolio plan.

The hardest part is keeping husband from taking too much risk with funds you can't afford to lose, and shouldn't be gambling with. If you have a Robinhood or other brokerage account that's not for retirement, I suggest you transfer out and close the accounts.
bloom2708
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by bloom2708 »

Have your husband create a Bogleheads login.

Have him join the party. :moneybag

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy

"Read only" for 90 days while he reads up on topics. If he is very interested, he will find plenty of good content here.

Congrats on the upcoming baby.
Last edited by bloom2708 on Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gr7070
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by gr7070 »

Ask your husband to read Mike Piper's 100-page book Investing Made Simple.

If he's unwilling to spend that minimal amount of time education himself tell him he's divested himself of the right to vote on these matters.
ddurrett896
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by ddurrett896 »

Show him this article. Your strategy vs his....and I'm sure he can admit, he's no hedge fund manager.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/i ... a-brkb.asp

Make a 1 year bet. Winner takes all and controls the $$.
mptfan
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by mptfan »

gr7070 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:08 pm If he's unwilling to spend that minimal amount of time education himself tell him he's divested himself of the right to vote on these matters.
Lol! I'm sure that will go over well.
sailaway
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by sailaway »

If you plan to buy real estate with this money as soon as the baby is settled in, then leaving it in a savings acct is an acceptable option.

Try rephrasing the conversation. It sounds like it is currently a my way or the highway for both of you (and a lot of posters here are encouraging that attitude). You need to agree on an IPS. That might not end up looking like an ideal bogleheads portfolio, but that doesn't mean it is automatically a recipe for disaster, either.
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onthecusp
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by onthecusp »

Even a bad active manager can knock it out of the park over a short period like a year or two. This is a choice for the long haul.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by MotoTrojan »

ddurrett896 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:24 pm
Make a 1 year bet. Winner takes all and controls the $$.
This is one of the worst ideas I've heard on this subject.
burritoLover
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by burritoLover »

If you have both have jobs, separate retirement accounts.
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livesoft
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by livesoft »

MotoTrojan wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:34 pm
ddurrett896 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:24 pm
Make a 1 year bet. Winner takes all and controls the $$.
This is one of the worst ideas I've heard on this subject.
My spouse and I did something like that. Winner would get to keep the difference and spend any way they wanted. The result:

We both lost money, so no winner. :(
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sailaway
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by sailaway »

livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:38 pm
MotoTrojan wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:34 pm
ddurrett896 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:24 pm
Make a 1 year bet. Winner takes all and controls the $$.
This is one of the worst ideas I've heard on this subject.
My spouse and I did something like that. Winner would get to keep the difference and spend any way they wanted. The result:

We both lost money, so no winner. :(
That's a lot different than "winner gets 100% control of family finances."
epictetus
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by epictetus »

would you/he be comfortable with him taking 5% of the money and investing it however he wants to and you invest the 95%?

if he does great, great. if he tanks, it won't wreck your finances.
Focus on what you can control
Walkure
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by Walkure »

Maybe put him in charge of researching how to set up a 529 plan for new baby? Nothing like a tax deduction to incentivize putting money to work... and (depending on the state) he might be able to play the prepaid tuition vs. market game, which is at least a better option than keeping it in non-yielding cash.
BuyandHold37
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by BuyandHold37 »

Short answer if it's commingled money, split it into 2 accounts. You manage half, and let him manage half.

Funny seeing this post....my wife recently turned her brokerage and IRA accounts over to a group of FAs who manages her parents assets (which are considerable). To date her accounts were all in 3 very sleepy stocks that have basically been flat over the last 20+ years. I have been telling her for years that she needed to get out of those positions, but she wouldn't listen to me...clammed up and shut me down as soon as I would bring it up, but as soon as this FA got her accounts she told him to do whatever and he put her into 20 ETFs and 20 mutual funds....meanwhile if she had listened to me all this time her principal would be at least 6-7X by now. I along with another trustee manage my family's assets. I follow the market every day, have my series 7, etc....I have a track record over many years of growing my family's assets despite having to make ~7% in annual distributions/fees, so I know what I am doing. BUT, our marriage is more important than me being "right", so while it was a bit of a slap in the face to me, I have decided to let it go. It's her money, and she can do with it as she pleases.......I feel for you, and it is a delicate situation.
Last edited by BuyandHold37 on Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
shorty313
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by shorty313 »

I am in the same boat with husband, but we are 20+ years invested. It became a huge argument, and for now he has pulled all his tax deferred stocks to stable funds, waiting to time the market. It’s his money after all. For now the compromise is that by next he March will be back in the market. For now I have changed all my holdings to stocks to keep our AA somewhat in line. No advice, just commiseration. In his eyes everything can vanish, in my eyes we are missing growth.

Congrats on baby news!
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FelixTheCat
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by FelixTheCat »

You can have a His and Hers brokerage account. He does his thing and you invest how you want.
Felix is a wonderful, wonderful cat.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by MotoTrojan »

shorty313 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:57 pm I am in the same boat with husband, but we are 20+ years invested. It became a huge argument, and for now he has pulled all his tax deferred stocks to stable funds, waiting to time the market. It’s his money after all. For now the compromise is that by next he March will be back in the market. For now I have changed all my holdings to stocks to keep our AA somewhat in line. No advice, just commiseration. In his eyes everything can vanish, in my eyes we are missing growth.

Congrats on baby news!
Does you mention of March mean he made this change in March of this year? Hope not!

I am fortunate to have a DW that let's me manage finances totally.
anoop
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by anoop »

Bond funds are very tax-inefficient when held in taxable. Your best bet is high yield savings.

I have trouble agreeing with myself on an investment plan. :)
wfpbFI
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by wfpbFI »

There are some great books/read suggestions already but I'll add one more. JL Collins "A Simple Path to Wealth" is another good read to start with, straight forward and reasonably easy read.

My wife loves this line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding, "the man may be the head of the house, but the woman is the neck, and she can turn the head anyway she wants."
tibbitts
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by tibbitts »

AZPediatrician wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pm I was thinking even just putting into a bond index fund would be less “risky” in his eyes and at least earn us something. Online savings account rates have dropped so low but I’m considering that as an option too. Any other recs?
If you think a bond index fund could substantially outperform a savings account, I assume you're counting on significantly falling interest rates? Otherwise it's not going to happen.

My suggestion is to separate the finances and each of you invest your own funds the way you choose. As for real estate I suggest only completely passive investments.
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gr7070
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by gr7070 »

mptfan wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:29 pm
gr7070 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:08 pm If he's unwilling to spend that minimal amount of time education himself tell him he's divested himself of the right to vote on these matters.
Lol! I'm sure that will go over well.
There may have been a little tongue in cheek there.

At the same time I expect my spouse to act like a big girl, she expects the same. ; )
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dratkinson
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by dratkinson »

AZPediatrician wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pm ...
We would like to start real estate investing in the future but I’m due to deliver our first baby any day now so that is currently on hold.
...
This money should remain in insured accounts. Why? Over the short term, you care more about return OF your principal, than return ON your principal.

Recommended goal horizons and savings vehicles.
--1-5yrs: insured accounts.
--5-10yrs: safe bond funds.
-->10yrs: safe equity funds.


Betting on the future. The market index wins over the long term. Over the short term, someone else, something else may get lucky.

Search: https://www.google.com/search?q=warren+ ... dollar+bet

If you follow the bet from its beginning, you'll learn the hedge funds were ahead for a few years.

The short answer. If your husband knows more about investing than Warren Buffett, then let him do his own thing. If not, then he should restrict his bets to 5% of your (plural) total investments. It'll let him scratch his itch to "do something", but will prevent him from doing too much damage to your (plural) retirement plans.


Other mistakes available to high income earners:

Search: https://www.google.com/search?q=stupid+doctor+tricks


Congratulation on junior.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.
Macbrother
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by Macbrother »

This type of situation is exactly why I prefer to maintain separate accounts even in marriage. Provided everyone is contributing to the expense of maintaining the household equitably (time, money, labor, however that is worked out) do what you want with your money, I'll do what I want with mine.
shorty313
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by shorty313 »

MotoTrojan wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:11 pm
shorty313 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:57 pm I am in the same boat with husband, but we are 20+ years invested. It became a huge argument, and for now he has pulled all his tax deferred stocks to stable funds, waiting to time the market. It’s his money after all. For now the compromise is that by next he March will be back in the market. For now I have changed all my holdings to stocks to keep our AA somewhat in line. No advice, just commiseration. In his eyes everything can vanish, in my eyes we are missing growth.

Congrats on baby news!
Does you mention of March mean he made this change in March of this year? Hope not!

I am fortunate to have a DW that let's me manage finances totally.
Fortunately he was able to wait until he had recovered to pre-March levels. I had managed the money our entire marriage so his resistance is new.
makingmistakes
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by makingmistakes »

AZPediatrician wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pm Hi all, I need your advice! I’m a self taught investor like most of you and have been following my 3 fund portfolio plan for about 5 years now. Got married 2 years ago and have always handled investments until this pandemic peaked my husband’s interest. I’m getting a lot of resistance from his side (he is trying to time the market, his knowledge on investing is limited to random articles online) and as a result we have a very large chunk of saved money that is sitting in the bank doing absolutely nothing for us, which makes me so anxious and frustrated!

We would like to start real estate investing in the future but I’m due to deliver our first baby any day now so that is currently on hold.

Any recommendations on what I could do for now with that money that is easy and low maintenance? I was thinking even just putting into a bond index fund would be less “risky” in his eyes and at least earn us something. Online savings account rates have dropped so low but I’m considering that as an option too. Any other recs?
On the bright side, since his interest peaked, it should now decrease until he has no interest again. If it had piqued his interest, you’d have a bigger problem 😄
dwc13
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by dwc13 »

It's good that your husband has recently taken an interest in the family finances. Encourage him to check out investing strategies you believe in. Likewise, you should try and understand where he is coming from. Note that I'm not saying you have to buy into (and do) what he's proposing, especially if you have legitimate reason(s) for objecting. Timing the market? Piece of cake, if one has solid & timely inside information -- and can act on it. But is that what he's really attempting to do? Understand having a different approach to investing (that yours) is not, by itself, inherently wrong. I know that might be sacrilege to some (many?) on this forum, but get over it. In reality, there are plenty of different ways to invest and become financially secure. Obviously, some are more likely to succeed than others. His approach to investing (as you described) is likely more risky and volatile compared with what you've been doing since the two of you were married. And its likelihood of consistent success is probably not very high.

Here's an idea (once this pandemic is over): Go to a (real) casino with your husband and play craps for a few hours. See how good his "timing" instincts are. There is better information available at a craps table than from a publicly traded company. Seriously. You know what all the craps rules are in advance, which is definitely not the case in the global business environment; the rules can change quickly (trade tariffs, global pandemic anyone?). And there are far fewer variables potentially affecting the outcome of the dice to consider compared with what can affect the value of a company's stock. If he's up at the end of the night, tell him to invest the profits as he likes. If he's down, he has to read an investment book you select and do a book report. Okay, I'm only kidding about going to a casino and playing craps. This is Bogleheads. You should be playing baccarat, lol.

With an baby on the way, perhaps picking a name and finding cute baby clothes should be your more immediate focus in the near term.
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PicassoSparks
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by PicassoSparks »

I think that the posters giving you tough love for your husband advice might be better investors than they are partners. :D I agree with dwc3 it’s great that your husband is finally taking an interest. It’s frustrating that he’s not up to speed yet, but this is a long learning road.

Balancing your need to manage a new baby and all the rest of it, I’d devote some time to conversations with him, sharing articles you found useful in your own education. If you need new material, you might want to share the YouTube channel Common Sense Investing by Ben Felix who is essentially a Boglehead (with a factor tilting) and offers lots of great visuals backed up by academic papers. A lot of great simple introductions to index investing, the history of market performance etc. I prefer the videos, my wife prefers the podcast.

I’ll tell you our story. Hopefully it helps. After a long period of neither of us doing much investing, just saving, she pushed us to start taking full advantage of our tax shelters. But what asset allocation? There, she stalled out so it sat in cash. I got to the Boglehead attitude a bit faster than my wife. She was initially quite resistant to doing anything before we had a “perfect plan” but there were lots of other priorities in our lives, so getting to understanding and then agreement on a perfect plan never came. Investing new cash felt risky, and both of our previous retirement investments were a mess so we just stalled.

Plus she found it all very stressful. (So do I but I have more interest in making decisions under uncertainty, so I had an easier time doing the research, meanwhile, she is the only reason our taxes get done well and on time. Division of labor!)

So we had the conversation in fits and starts. As I said, she found the podcast enjoyable, and so started absorbing knowledge from them and their interviews. Meanwhile, I developed a phased set of “good enough” actions that allowed us to knock off the lowest hanging fruit along with checkpoints for when we’d re-evaluate progress and decide what to do with the next chunk. This released some of the big pressure. We agreed to the first phase and when we’ll re-visit. As time goes by, both of us are getting more comfortable with the money and concepts, and we’re building up some lived experience with what it’s like to invest. Our conversations are becoming less and less stressful.

People can learn. If you learned what you know up until now, your husband can to. And soon you’ll be a team working on this. The learning curve might be frustrating but it’s an investment in a stronger partnership and that will pay off long term.
whereskyle
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by whereskyle »

AZPediatrician wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:09 pm Hi all, I need your advice! I’m a self taught investor like most of you and have been following my 3 fund portfolio plan for about 5 years now. Got married 2 years ago and have always handled investments until this pandemic peaked my husband’s interest. I’m getting a lot of resistance from his side (he is trying to time the market, his knowledge on investing is limited to random articles online) and as a result we have a very large chunk of saved money that is sitting in the bank doing absolutely nothing for us, which makes me so anxious and frustrated!

We would like to start real estate investing in the future but I’m due to deliver our first baby any day now so that is currently on hold.

Any recommendations on what I could do for now with that money that is easy and low maintenance? I was thinking even just putting into a bond index fund would be less “risky” in his eyes and at least earn us something. Online savings account rates have dropped so low but I’m considering that as an option too. Any other recs?
He needs to read the little book of common sense investing by Jack Bogle, A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel, and The Four Pillars of Investing by William Bernstein, in any order.

These deeper-than-webpage dives will hopefully open his eyes to the money-draining silliness that is market timing. I'm sure you are frustrated, but at least he's not stock picking. Hopefully he will understand just how conservative a three-fund portfolio can be and you two will come to an agreement that reflects your shared risk tolerance.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
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Ramjet
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by Ramjet »

Lots of people in this thread saying "it's his money" or "it's her money" and they can do as they like. Do you guys normally keep separate savings/checking accounts as well? We've always taken the approach of shared checking/savings and all money including retirement accounts is "our money"
NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

The White Coat Investor site has a lot of good resources, both for index/3 fund types of investments and for real estate investing. This forum is rich in information but the least flashy spot on the web. WCI has content that is appropriate to your income group, and is a little livelier.
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Brianmcg321
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by Brianmcg321 »

Show him every month how much money you’ve lost by not having that money invested.
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.
shorty313
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by shorty313 »

Ramjet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:50 am Lots of people in this thread saying "it's his money" or "it's her money" and they can do as they like. Do you guys normally keep separate savings/checking accounts as well? We've always taken the approach of shared checking/savings and all money including retirement accounts is "our money"
All of our money is shared. But our arguments about about it were becoming so heated that for the sake of our marriage I agreed to make the change and reevaluate by next March as a compromise. He also compromised that all new contributions could still be invested in stock, he just preferred to preserve his balances to date. Money isn't everything.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by MotoTrojan »

shorty313 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:13 pm
MotoTrojan wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:11 pm
shorty313 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:57 pm I am in the same boat with husband, but we are 20+ years invested. It became a huge argument, and for now he has pulled all his tax deferred stocks to stable funds, waiting to time the market. It’s his money after all. For now the compromise is that by next he March will be back in the market. For now I have changed all my holdings to stocks to keep our AA somewhat in line. No advice, just commiseration. In his eyes everything can vanish, in my eyes we are missing growth.

Congrats on baby news!
Does you mention of March mean he made this change in March of this year? Hope not!

I am fortunate to have a DW that let's me manage finances totally.
Fortunately he was able to wait until he had recovered to pre-March levels. I had managed the money our entire marriage so his resistance is new.
Very fortunate indeed. Honestly the biggest risk to your longterm plan is probably him being right and you both profiting hugely after a market downturn in which you get invested at a lower price. Often times even though you "won" in that case,you end up losing since it creates bad habits.
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bottlecap
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by bottlecap »

Maybe it’s time to get a fee only advisor. You’ll pay extra for this, but it will take it out of both your hands to some extent.

JT
shorty313
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by shorty313 »

MotoTrojan wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:29 am
shorty313 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:13 pm
MotoTrojan wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:11 pm
shorty313 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:57 pm I am in the same boat with husband, but we are 20+ years invested. It became a huge argument, and for now he has pulled all his tax deferred stocks to stable funds, waiting to time the market. It’s his money after all. For now the compromise is that by next he March will be back in the market. For now I have changed all my holdings to stocks to keep our AA somewhat in line. No advice, just commiseration. In his eyes everything can vanish, in my eyes we are missing growth.

Congrats on baby news!
Does you mention of March mean he made this change in March of this year? Hope not!

I am fortunate to have a DW that let's me manage finances totally.
Fortunately he was able to wait until he had recovered to pre-March levels. I had managed the money our entire marriage so his resistance is new.
Very fortunate indeed. Honestly the biggest risk to your longterm plan is probably him being right and you both profiting hugely after a market downturn in which you get invested at a lower price. Often times even though you "won" in that case,you end up losing since it creates bad habits.
That was part of the argument. He had wanted to sell in Feb when he saw COVID approaching. So I was 'wrong' that time. In any case, we won't be poor and all will be well.
zlandar
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by zlandar »

Ramjet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:50 am Lots of people in this thread saying "it's his money" or "it's her money" and they can do as they like. Do you guys normally keep separate savings/checking accounts as well? We've always taken the approach of shared checking/savings and all money including retirement accounts is "our money"
Yep. Makes no sense to me either.

Good luck running that three-legged race in opposite directions.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by Sandtrap »

OP:
1. Send him a link to the "bogleheads forum" to read daily.
(perhaps post a question, "my spouse is a long term boglehead and I am a market timer, what should I do?")

2. Send him a link to the "bogleheads wiki" (getting started).
Say you will consider making some changes with "your money" investment strategies after he reads the entire wiki and the recommended books. If he is not willing to learn what you know, then how is it a 50/50 decision with your money.

3. It is not important that your husband follow your investment plan with your money, all things considered. It is important that you follow your investment plan with your money, and he can follow his investment plan with his money.

4. For now, do not commingle funds, especialle large assets. Keep them in seperate brokerage accounts, etc. Then, have joint accounts as needed for sacrificial and daily use operating funds.
(change this up you both are able to agree on things, and not temporarily agree to get one way or another (manipulate).

5. These things are really important. Do not let it be a forever "thorn in your side", "axe to grind", "underlying unresolved issue", etc. You both do not have to 100% agree except on shared money. It is human nature for one to assume assumed control over things.

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
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ruralavalon
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by ruralavalon »

shorty313 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:22 am
Ramjet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:50 am Lots of people in this thread saying "it's his money" or "it's her money" and they can do as they like. Do you guys normally keep separate savings/checking accounts as well? We've always taken the approach of shared checking/savings and all money including retirement accounts is "our money"
All of our money is shared. But our arguments about about it were becoming so heated that for the sake of our marriage I agreed to make the change and reevaluate by next March as a compromise. He also compromised that all new contributions could still be invested in stock, he just preferred to preserve his balances to date. Money isn't everything.
Except for individual retirement accounts (IRAs) all of our accounts are joint accounts, i.e. joint taxable account and joint checking account. It's all "our" money, with no arguments so far in 52 years of marriage.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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barnaclebob
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by barnaclebob »

shorty313 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:46 am That was part of the argument. He had wanted to sell in Feb when he saw COVID approaching. So I was 'wrong' that time. In any case, we won't be poor and all will be well.
Selling is often the easy decision. When would he have thrown it back in? I think the low point and much of the recovery was when virus speculation was very doomsday like.
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Re: Husband doesn’t want to follow my investment plan

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run its course and is locked (relationship issue). See: Acceptable Topics and Subforum Guidelines
This is an investing and personal finance forum. We also maintain a subforum that allow our members to discuss consumer goods and services and recreational activities. Anything else is considered "Off Topic" and is not acceptable on this forum.
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