Undergrad College List

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Topic Author
goru1
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Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

I am asking this question for a girl in high school. Does this undergrad college list make sense?

Undergrad application plan:
- GPA: Weighted 4.35/5.00
- SAT practice tests: 1510
- AP 11th plan: 3, Statistics, Biology and History.
- AP 12th plan: 5, BC Calculus, Physics, Psychology, English and Spanish.
- College course with credit: Intro to psychology.
- ECs: All 4 years, Volunteer, Speech club, Environmental club and Dance.

Undergrad plan:
- BS Psychology
- Premed courses
- Premed ECs: Volunteer, Physician shadowing, Patient exposure, Research and Leadership experience.
- No job available after BS Psychology.

Grad plan:
- MD or DO, Psychiatrist, High loan.

Grad backup plan:
- PhD, Psychologist, Loan.
- PsyD, Psychologist, High loan.
- MSW, LICSW, Loan.

Undergrad college list steps:
- US news national universities
- Will not get need based aid.
- Out of pocket bill.
- Relatively easy grading system.
- Have their own Psychiatry Residency. For premed ECs.

National, Public, Low to high rank:
- Indiana University Bloomington
- University of Minnesota Twin Cities
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
- University of Connecticut Storrs
- Rutgers University New Brunswick Piscataway, NJ
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh
- Purdue University West Lafayette, IN
- Pennsylvania State University University Park
- Florida State University Tallahassee
- Ohio State University Columbus
- University of Georgia Athens
- University of Illinois Urbana Champaign
- University of Wisconsin Madison
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg VA
- University of Florida Gainesville
- University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

National, Private, Low to high rank:
- University of Miami Coral Gables
- Case Western Reserve University Cleveland
- Boston University
Last edited by goru1 on Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
newyorker
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by newyorker »

I think you can aim higher. I got into 1 top 10 school and 3 top 20 schools with 1500. (Asian, no affirmative action) but that was 15 years ago.

If goal is MD, go to state school and save money on Tuition imo.
Normchad
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Normchad »

That’s a long list.

I wouldn’t recommend anybody getting a BS in psychology. If you do it, you absolutely have to get an advanced degree to get any kind of job. Even a masters in Psychology has fairly limited job choices.

If the long term plan is to be a psychiatrist or psychologist, see if you can find one of those people and figure out what path most reliably leads there.

I’d recommend getting an undergrad that could lead to employment all by itself, but also allows for the other pursuits if that’s still the desire after graduation.
newyorker
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by newyorker »

Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:28 pm That’s a long list.

I wouldn’t recommend anybody getting a BS in psychology. If you do it, you absolutely have to get an advanced degree to get any kind of job. Even a masters in Psychology has fairly limited job choices.

If the long term plan is to be a psychiatrist or psychologist, see if you can find one of those people and figure out what path most reliably leads there.

I’d recommend getting an undergrad that could lead to employment all by itself, but also allows for the other pursuits if that’s still the desire after graduation.

Yeah psychology major is a waste of money. BS in chem is a better bet. I dont know whats up with psych but it sure attracts lots of young girls. No idea why.
fwellimort
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by fwellimort »

If goal is MD, save money.
No one cares about your undergrad degree as long as the school is reputable.

Save as much money early as possible. And go to a school with relatively easy grading system.
GPA + Test score is all that matters. MD is mostly a numbers game: one of reasons I think a lot of pre-med students at MIT/CalTech/Cornell/Princeton complain due to grade deflation (compared to other schools).

I think in-state flagship should be the first priority. State schools are mostly all (there are exceptions like EECS majors at Berkeley) the same in the eyes of the workforce.
Honestly, all the colleges in the middle are all the same. No one really differentiates "Rank 50" and "Rank 72" in the real world. There's a handful of schools everyone recognizes as good and then next batch being 'those are decent schools' (and then the don't-go schools like for-profit schools, etc).

Also, I would avoid a degree in psychology if possible. If you don't make it to grad school (reality != expectations), the degree is quite... uhmm... ya...
The child better be dedicated (and warned/told ahead of time) that she would need "minimum" a phd. Not undergrad. Not masters. But a phd.

Personally, I would recommend majoring in a field that is relatively employable with just a bachelor's.
Unfortunately, the bio/chem fields are quite bi-polar when it comes to employability: many of the fields like med/dentistry/psych/etc pay very well if you can get the graduate degree. However, if you only have an undergrad degree, the fields are very unforgiving and the child can be underpaid/overworked out of college.
At the same time, I don't want to crush the child's dream. I would suggest maybe asking the child if she wants to instead minor in the field of interest (psychology) and major in something more employable the first year or two so that depending on GPA, she can then consider whether she has the potential to get into a phd program in psychology. Supply and demand curve does not favour psychology majors. There's a huge supply of psychology majors for very little demand in the market (and for some reason, a lot of girls are attracted to psychology degree in college).

The few peers I knew in college pursuing pre-med and/or phd in the natural sciences usually took a minor in Computer Science. Just putting it out there.
drk
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by drk »

newyorker wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:25 pm If goal is MD, go to state school and save money on Tuition imo.
fwellimort wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:51 pm If goal is MD, save money.
No one cares about your undergrad degree as long as the school is reputable.

Save as much money early as possible. And go to a school with relatively easy grading system.
GPA + Test score is all that matters. MD is mostly a numbers game: one of reasons I think a lot of pre-med students at MIT/CalTech/Cornell/Princeton complain due to grade deflation (compared to other schools).
Offering a third vote for both of these. If the goal is med school, optimize for pre-med academic performance and defer prestige for the MD and psych residency. Getting an A in biology at State U is more valuable than a B at Prestige U, and there will be more time for MCAT prep. Major/concentration doesn't matter as long as those stats are good: I had pre-med friends with hard science majors end up at no-name med schools while those with social science majors went to top-10 schools because the latter had the numbers.
otinkyad
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by otinkyad »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:15 pm I am asking this question for a girl in high school. Does this undergrad college list make sense?
Can you be specific about what you didn’t get from your earlier long thread on this same topic?
Topic Author
goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

go to a school with relatively easy grading system.
How do I find which school has relatively easy grading system?
avoid a degree in psychology if possible.
How will 'Grad backup plan' work with non psychology degree?

Grad plan:
- MD or DO, Psychiatrist.

Grad backup plan:
- PhD, Psychologist
- PsyD, Psychologist
- MSW, LICSW
fwellimort
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by fwellimort »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:29 pm How do I find which school has relatively easy grading system?
http://gradeinflation.com/
avoid a degree in psychology if possible
How will 'Grad backup plan' work with non psychology degree?
Sorry. Don't know about the field of psychology to comment much.
But it is generally possible to major/minor in something employable while maintaining high GPAs and doing another major.
One just has to take more courses than the norm in the 4 years while having research experience in the field of his/her desire.
Doubleeagle4me
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Doubleeagle4me »

Ohio state. With high sat. Will get scholarship for in state tuition. Go bucks!
drk
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by drk »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:29 pm Grad backup plan:
- PhD, Psychologist
- PsyD, Psychologist
- MSW, LICSW
You don't need a psychology degree for any of those. Taking a few psych courses or working in a psych lab is sufficient.
mecht3ach
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by mecht3ach »

With that list of schools, it is hard to figure out where you are located. Why are you just focused on public universities? I can DEFINITELY understand doing public in your own state (and recommend it!), but many of those schools have tuition + fees for out-of-state students that are nearly equivalent to private school tuition, and also tend to be less generous in financial aid than a lot of private schools (there are some exceptions to that - like the aforementioned Ohio State and also Pitt, but in general that has been my observation).
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by KlangFool »

https://honors.vcu.edu/admissions/prefe ... -medicine/

https://honors.vcu.edu/admissions/guara ... uirements/


OP,

Some colleges like VCU has a medical school. And, they have a guarantee admission program for an undergraduate student to their medical school.

KlangFool
Topic Author
goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

Have their own Psychiatry Residency. For premed ECs.
Premed ECs: Volunteer, Physician shadowing, Patient exposure, Research and Leadership experience.
How important is it to look for school that has their own Psychiatry Residency?
Topic Author
goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

Some colleges like VCU has a medical school. And, they have a guarantee admission program for an undergraduate student to their medical school.
Are there any more 'Guaranteed Admission Program to Medicine' programs?
Domadosolo
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Domadosolo »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:16 pm
Some colleges like VCU has a medical school. And, they have a guarantee admission program for an undergraduate student to their medical school.
Are there any more 'Guaranteed Admission Program to Medicine' programs?
Wayne State University, Detroit is another that I am aware of
absolute zero
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by absolute zero »

What's her class rank? E.g. X out of Y students.GPA is sort of meaningless without this data point, since every school calculates GPA in a different way.

If she actually ends up scoring a 1510 on her SAT, probably worth tossing in an application to 1 or 2 top 10 universities, if she's interested in any of them. All else equal, a 1510 is competitive at any elite school.

Also, maybe I missed it, but hopefully that list is a "first pass" and she isn't really considering applying to 20 different schools. Seems a bit overkill. 8-10 schools should be plenty.
Last edited by absolute zero on Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Domadosolo
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Domadosolo »

She should aim higher. The process of aiming higher will make her focus on her differentiating story
She will need really persuasive essays that demonstrate a consistent thread which would make an admissions evaluator to say "Hey look at this one!, Whadya think?".

She must use language that pops with enthusiasm, shows consistency of passion.
Every essay should lead to the same "passion" end point, although every story will be different.
Every essay must be clear, simple, and use precise language, not flowery prose.
She must not use the word "passion".

Her GPA will be evaluated based on how competitive her school is, and what opportunities were presented, that she took/did not take
Finally,
The list should be shorter, but evaluated in 3 parts
#1 Stretch schools (1-3)
#2 I'll probably get in (3-5)
#3 Backup schools (3)

Good Luck, Amazing that she has so much insight 5-7 years ahead.
Topic Author
goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

What's her class rank?
Her school doesn't give class rank.
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celia
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by celia »

The University of California's (and probably other states) give preference to in-state students. Aim for the best university in your state first.

Why no privates (eg, Johns Hopkins)? Often you can attend them for a lower cost than at some public schools if the student applies for and gets some grants (through the financial aid office). Local hospitals (to her) may also offer scholarships that not many students apply for.
Frugalbear
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Frugalbear »

If MD is the goal:

1. In state for Undergrad (save money)
2. Choose a different undergrad program or double major:

For instance, Neuroscience and Psych.

Reason being, if something changes you cant do much with a psych degree. In my opinion.
bitdocmd
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by bitdocmd »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:15 pm I am asking this question for a girl in high school. Does this undergrad college list make sense?

Undergrad application plan:
- GPA: 4.35/5.00
- SAT practice tests: 1510
- AP 11th plan: 3, Statistics, Biology and History.
- AP 12th plan: 5, BC Calculus, Physics, Psychology, English and Spanish.
- College course with credit: Intro to psychology.
- ECs: All 4 years, Volunteer, Speech club, Environmental club and Dance.

Undergrad plan:
- BS Psychology
- Premed courses
- Premed ECs: Volunteer, Physician shadowing, Patient exposure, Research and Leadership experience.

Grad plan:
- MD or DO, Psychiatrist.

Grad backup plan:
- PhD, Psychologist
- PsyD, Psychologist
- MSW, LICSW

Undergrad college list steps:
- US news national universities ranking
- Public
- SAT GPA match
- Have their own Psychiatry Residency. For premed ECs.
- Out of pocket bill

Approximate list, low to high ranking:
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
- University of Connecticut Storrs
- University of Washington Seattle
- Rutgers University New Brunswick
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh
- Purdue University West Lafayette
- Pennsylvania State University University Park
- Florida State University Tallahassee
- Ohio State University Columbus
- University of Georgia Athens
- University of Texas Austin
- University of Illinois Urbana Champaign
- University of Wisconsin Madison
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg
- University of California Davis
- University of California San Diego
- University of California Irvine
- University of Florida Gainesville
Doctor here, who took a long winding road to my eventual professional destination.

WAY too much planning in this post. Planning for a specific specialty in medicine while in high school doesn't make sense to me.

Would just pick any school where you can excel regardless of ranking, etc.
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

Why no privates (eg, Johns Hopkins)? Often you can attend them for a lower cost than at some public schools if the student applies for and gets some grants (through the financial aid office).
She will not get need based aid. What is the process of finding private schools that could offer merit based aid?
rhe
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by rhe »

fwellimort wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:51 pm GPA + Test score is all that matters. MD is mostly a numbers game: one of reasons I think a lot of pre-med students at MIT/CalTech/Cornell/Princeton complain due to grade deflation (compared to other schools).
This appears to be "common knowledge" for posters on this board, but I still find it very surprising. I was part of a graduate admissions committee (not in medicine) for a number of years. If you get 10+ applications from undergrads at Berkeley each year, you are going to start to notice differences in course choice between those applicants. In these cases, low grades in difficult courses were sometimes excused, and high grades in easy courses were routinely criticized.

If you get an applicant from some school you don't normally see large numbers of applications from, then you don't know much about the school and don't have anything to go off of other than what's in the application. For applicants from the "usual suspects", though, you have a pretty good sense of how they compare to other students who generally apply from that school, as well as some understanding of how good the applicants from that school generally are. There's no way we would have taken someone with a 4.0 from some random school over an applicant with worse grades from MIT, unless the bad grades indicated legitimate weakness.

Now obviously the details might be different in medicine, but consider the extreme case: does the MD admissions committee at Cornell really have no understanding of Cornell undergrad transcripts, to the extent that they treat them just like grades from Directional State?

Maybe there's someone here who's served on one of these committees and will tell me that the above is all wrong, but my guess would be that the committee does a fairly good job of adjusting for undergrad quality, and high school students would be better off choosing a college based on considerations other than medical school admissions.
BrainDrain
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by BrainDrain »

This spreadsheet is an incredible (and recently updated) resource for determining which schools offer merit aid, the percentage of of non-need admitted students who receive aid, and the average merit aid package.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Sheet1.pdf

That being said, I agree with other posters that the initial focus should be on an affordable undergrad degree that can lead to a job even without an MD. Most pre-med students don't end up in medical school. Might be nice have a little less competition when going up against other premeds in O Chem. Psychiatry is among the more modest paying specialties, so you should wary of her taking on too much debt.

We can help you more if you share (1) what state you live in and (2) how much you're prepared to pay for undergrad and grad school.
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

I have found these private colleges that offer merit aid.

- College, Tuition, % of non need receiving merit aid, average merit aid
- Boston University, 56k, 9%, 24k
- Case Western Reserve University, 51k, 62%, 25k
- Tulane University, 57k, 59%, 25k
- Pepperdine University, 56k, 65%, 20k
- Southern Methodist University, 56k, 59%, 28k
- Worcester Polytechnic Institute, 52k, 88%, 17k

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Sheet1.pdf
Valuethinker
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Valuethinker »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:15 pm I am asking this question for a girl in high school. Does this undergrad college list make sense?

Undergrad application plan:
- GPA: 4.35/5.00
- SAT practice tests: 1510
- AP 11th plan: 3, Statistics, Biology and History.
- AP 12th plan: 5, BC Calculus, Physics, Psychology, English and Spanish.
- College course with credit: Intro to psychology.
- ECs: All 4 years, Volunteer, Speech club, Environmental club and Dance.

Undergrad plan:
- BS Psychology
- Premed courses
- Premed ECs: Volunteer, Physician shadowing, Patient exposure, Research and Leadership experience.

Grad plan:
- MD or DO, Psychiatrist.

Grad backup plan:
- PhD, Psychologist
- PsyD, Psychologist
- MSW, LICSW

Undergrad college list steps:
- US news national universities ranking
- Public
- Will not get need based aid.
- SAT GPA match
- Have their own Psychiatry Residency. For premed ECs.
- Out of pocket bill

Approximate list, low to high ranking:
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
- University of Connecticut Storrs
- University of Washington Seattle
- Rutgers University New Brunswick
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh
- Purdue University West Lafayette
- Pennsylvania State University University Park
- Florida State University Tallahassee
- Ohio State University Columbus
- University of Georgia Athens
- University of Texas Austin
- University of Illinois Urbana Champaign
- University of Wisconsin Madison
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg
- University of California Davis
- University of California San Diego
- University of California Irvine
- University of Florida Gainesville
(from the perspective of a UK resident who has seen American friends go through this with college choices for their children)

1. your financial position counts in this -- what debt load she might be carrying upon graduation.

In her terms there will be a huge debt load from the MD but a high income (although i don't think psychiatry is particularly well paid among medical disciplines). Whereas if she does not go down the MD route she will not make the money and it will be more important not to run up a big undergrad debt load (w PhD programmes if they don't offer funding, they really don't want you).

2. you should have a "reach" school. Why not apply to Princeton? Swarthmore?* If they want her, they will offer financial aid. One of the private colleges (and I forget which one) has an extraordinary percentage of undergrads who go on to do MD or PhD.

My general understanding of US colleges is that private universities have higher grades - they would argue they have better students, but I also think there is grade inflation.

GPA is all important in terms of getting into Medicine, as I understand it. She should do the undergraduate major she most enjoys (with the minimum course requirements for medical school) that she can excel at. In an environment she is happy with- that really matters a lot - safe campus, degree of sociability for students etc. For example some of those colleges are heavily "Greek" (fraternity. sorority based) and that may or may not suit.

Her career will be shaped by where she did her MD & residency, not where she did her undergrad. If she goes the PhD psychology route, the same is true (her PhD and the academic work she does while there + post doc).

3. I don't know what the position would be if she attended medical school in the UK, say, vis a vis US certification. British medical schools are good, albeit expensive for a foreign student. Canadian I am just assuming they are impossible to get into for a non-resident (but I don't know). There might be other English-language medical schools in Europe as well. I am not suggesting here one of the Caribbean schools which could be seen as a "failed to get into a real medical school" - that's a fall back position, and US certification is the most important aspect.

Medicine is an undergrad discipline in the UK (a friend's daughter was prevented from attending until she was 18, but she enjoyed the year off). Thus she could apply from 1st or 2nd year undergrad. I had classmates (& a British friend's child) who did this at McGill (1 or 2 years undergrad then straight into medicine).

* I would add Johns Hopkins University. However much as I loved Baltimore, I formed an opinion that the campus would not be terribly safe (this was many years ago)- perhaps a better choice for medical school.
camden
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by camden »

Yes, I would imagine that Johns Hopkins might be a pretty good choice for medical school.

Seriously, we are getting way ahead of ourselves here. If the young lady is the type of student smart and industrious enough to be capable of compiling an undergrad record and MCAT scores which give her a fighting chance of gaining admission to Johns Hopkins for med school, it won’t matter a bit where she does her undergrad; she will have plenty of med schools to choose from.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by White Coat Investor »

goru1 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:15 pm I am asking this question for a girl in high school. Does this undergrad college list make sense?

Undergrad application plan:
- GPA: 4.35/5.00
- SAT practice tests: 1510
- AP 11th plan: 3, Statistics, Biology and History.
- AP 12th plan: 5, BC Calculus, Physics, Psychology, English and Spanish.
- College course with credit: Intro to psychology.
- ECs: All 4 years, Volunteer, Speech club, Environmental club and Dance.

Undergrad plan:
- BS Psychology
- Premed courses
- Premed ECs: Volunteer, Physician shadowing, Patient exposure, Research and Leadership experience.

Grad plan:
- MD or DO, Psychiatrist.

Grad backup plan:
- PhD, Psychologist
- PsyD, Psychologist
- MSW, LICSW

Undergrad college list steps:
- US news national universities ranking
- Public
- Will not get need based aid.
- SAT GPA match
- Have their own Psychiatry Residency. For premed ECs.
- Out of pocket bill

Approximate list, low to high ranking:
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
- University of Connecticut Storrs
- University of Washington Seattle
- Rutgers University New Brunswick
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh
- Purdue University West Lafayette
- Pennsylvania State University University Park
- Florida State University Tallahassee
- Ohio State University Columbus
- University of Georgia Athens
- University of Texas Austin
- University of Illinois Urbana Champaign
- University of Wisconsin Madison
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg
- University of California Davis
- University of California San Diego
- University of California Irvine
- University of Florida Gainesville
I cannot from that list of schools figure out what state you're in, but I see little reason to go to an out of state state university barring some crazy good scholarship or unique program (pre-med is not unique). So most of the list doesn't make sense to me. Out of state tuition is often similar to private tuition.

You certainly don't need a psych residency at your undergrad to get into med school.

I can't imagine that someone who would be happy at UT Austin is also going to be happy at UC Davis and University of Connecticut. Why not start by choosing a region of the country at least?
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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LilyFleur
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by LilyFleur »

goru1 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:24 am I have found these private colleges that offer merit aid.

- College, Tuition, % of non need receiving merit aid, average merit aid
- Boston University, 56k, 9%, 24k
- Case Western Reserve University, 51k, 62%, 25k
- Tulane University, 57k, 59%, 25k
- Pepperdine University, 56k, 65%, 20k
- Southern Methodist University, 56k, 59%, 28k
- Worcester Polytechnic Institute, 52k, 88%, 17k

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Sheet1.pdf
If this person is going out of state to a private university, be sure to add travel costs on to the yearly cost. My son went to school 7 hours away on the freeway, and we had to fly him back and forth several times a year, as it was quite expensive to have a car at his university (high parking fees). I would drive him there in the fall and drive him home in the spring, so I needed to budget days off work to do that as well as some airbnb nights. Sometimes he was too tired from finals to help drive home. As I drove past UCLA on my way to UC Berkley (he got into both), I kind of wished he had picked a university closer to home. But, his dream--not mine-- and he loved his time at Berkeley.
codmaxkor
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by codmaxkor »

New MD here. This list makes no sense. Out of state roughly equivalent to private in terms of cost of attendance and premed requirements can be fulfilled at any university. Approximately 0% of my colleagues care where their peers went to undergrad (residency program more indicative of career path). It's all about test scores and GPA to get into med school. This can be accomplished with some hard work at in-state U (or privatewithmerit$$ U) with some asking around what sort of grade you can expect with x level of effort in y course. Also an undergrad psych degree is not relevant to the practice of psychiatry. Maybe a minor would be helpful to see if a phd or PsyD career would be something they would want to explore. Otherwise, study a major that is enjoyable and has career prospects if not going academic or MD route.

Your state's flagship university should be able to provide every possible opportunity to both succeed academically and polish the CV. Extracurriculars don't all have to be in medicine either. You have to strike a balence between demonstrating an interest in a career in medicine and showing that you can function in a team setting and interact with others in a reasonably personable manner. I did this with a 'real' job (service industry), some shadowing and research at the affiliated med school.

Get to July 1st 2028 with the least amount of debt possible.
Mr.Chlorine
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Mr.Chlorine »

Unless scholarship pays for more than expected, I suggest a well respected state school for undergrad. Med or grad school will drive up student loans already.

Not related to college list, but why is the student not taking AP chemistry in high school? Organic chem is a huge hurdle for pre med students.
itaos
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by itaos »

rhe wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:27 pm
fwellimort wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:51 pm GPA + Test score is all that matters. MD is mostly a numbers game: one of reasons I think a lot of pre-med students at MIT/CalTech/Cornell/Princeton complain due to grade deflation (compared to other schools).
Now obviously the details might be different in medicine, but consider the extreme case: does the MD admissions committee at Cornell really have no understanding of Cornell undergrad transcripts, to the extent that they treat them just like grades from Directional State?

Maybe there's someone here who's served on one of these committees and will tell me that the above is all wrong, but my guess would be that the committee does a fairly good job of adjusting for undergrad quality, and high school students would be better off choosing a college based on considerations other than medical school admissions.
Having a GPA less than 3.8 hurts your med school application regardless of where you attended undergrad. There are outliers and exceptions but this is a strong guideline.

The folks at https://forums.studentdoctor.net have posted tomes on how to get into med school and where to apply by score. Anyone interested would do well to visit the website
alfaspider
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by alfaspider »

I don't see the point of applying to all these public schools in states where you don't live. If you are going out of state, it's usually a much better plan to go private as those schools are going to have deeper pockets for aid. Out of state public tuition tends to be the price of private, but you often get a lot less value for your money.

If the plan is med school, I would also look at integrated med programs. Rice/Baylor in Houston is one such program I'm familiar with, but there are others. Also consider schools known for grade inflation rather than the reverse.
arf1410
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by arf1410 »

My son was going thru a similar dilemma half dozen years ago... debating between an average quality state school, in a location he liked, and that was rolling out the red carpet for him, or a top tier (TT) school, that there was peer pressure to accept. He made a second trip to visit TT, this time, not with his parents, but to stay in the dorms there with a friend who was a freshman, and attend classes for a day. He learned a couple of things - /1/ kids at TT still do party, and /2/ talking with prof after sitting thru her class, she told him - "If you were my son, I'd tell you to save your $$ for grad school". TT would have cost ~$150k more over 4 years.

He ended up with a great experience at State, and likely had more opportunity there than at TT. He was able to get into a research lab as a freshman, and get published in a journal by his junior year. It would have been much more difficult to stand out from the crowd at a TT school.

Which leads me to my next point. Getting into Med School is more than grades and MCAT. I'm glad a cousin told him this, because son doesnt listen to Dad, but Cousin in residency told him to get into a research lab as soon as possible... which he did...

So, yes grades and MCATs get you thru that initial screening to get invited to submit the tier 2 app... at that point, its essays, interviews, recommendations, research, and community service.

And final point...some advice Son got from a friend of mine who spent 7 years in the 2000s on the admit committee of a higher end Med School - what he said, at least at that Med school, they had no system to "score" undergraduate schools. It was a simply Y/N "is it a 4 year research institution". So While southern Alabama junior college may have gotten a N, Montana State or Harvard each got equal Ys.

Oh - and son is now a second year at a top tier medical school.
Big Dog
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Big Dog »

Not a fan of paying OOS fees to attend another state's public. Unless she can get some merit money, not sure why you'd want to pay sticker for an OOS public. For example, a Univ of California campus will cost $65k. For a few dollars more, she could attend a private college which offers smaller classes, better housing, advising, career counseling, etc. OTOH, a school like the University of Alabama offers a full ride for high stats.

Psych is fine for a premed major, but since she'll be taking 2+ years of science courses, why not go a little harder and look for schools with Neuroscience programs? Take a couple of extra quant courses, including Stats, for increased job opportunities if she changes her mind about med school.

No need for her undergrad choice to have a med school nearby. Plenty of students attend Liberal Arts Colleges in the boonies and get accepted into med school with no issues.
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

Out of state public tuition tends to be the price of private.
I have found only these private colleges that have similar ranking as my list and offer enough merit aid to match out of state public.

College, Tuition, % of non need receiving merit aid, average merit aid

- Case Western Reserve University, 51k, 62%, 25k
- Tulane University, 57k, 59%, 25k
- Pepperdine University, 56k, 65%, 20k
- Southern Methodist University, 56k, 59%, 28k
- Worcester Polytechnic Institute, 52k, 88%, 17k

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Sheet1.pdf
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

avoid a degree in psychology if possible.
She has high interest in psychology. She has high interest in Psychiatrist and Psychologist career. She has no interest in engineering, cs, business and nursing. What are some other major options to consider?
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

What should be the approach to pick from these list of OOS and private? She has already picked one in state.

OOS, low to high ranking:
- University of Maryland College Park, 37k
- University of Massachusetts Amherst, 36k
- University of Connecticut Storrs, 40k
- University of Washington Seattle, 39k
- Rutgers University New Brunswick, 32k
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, 34k
- Purdue University West Lafayette, 29k
- Pennsylvania State University University Park, 35k
- Florida State University Tallahassee, 22k
- Ohio State University Columbus, 32k
- University of Georgia Athens, 31k
- University of Texas Austin, 38k
- University of Illinois Urbana Champaign, 33k
- University of Wisconsin Madison, 38k
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg, 46k
- University of California Davis, 43k
- University of California San Diego, 43k
- University of California Irvine, 43k
- University of Florida Gainesville, 29k

Private, low to high ranking:
- Worcester Polytechnic Institute, 52k
- Southern Methodist University, 57k
- Loyola Marymount University, 50k
- University of Miami, 52k
- Syracuse University, 54k
- Santa Clara University, 54k
- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, 55k
- Pepperdine University, 56k
- Lehigh University, 55k
- Villanova University, 55k
- Tulane University, 57
- Northeastern University, 53k
- Case Western Reserve University, 51k
- Brandeis University, 58k
- Boston University, 56k
- Boston College, 58k

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities
drk
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by drk »

goru1 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:46 pm
avoid a degree in psychology if possible.
She has high interest in psychology. She has high interest in Psychiatrist and Psychologist career. She has no interest in engineering, cs, business and nursing. What are some other major options to consider?
Just FYI: it's better not to delete the quote context (author, time, post ID). Doing so prevents notifications to the person you're replying to and eliminates the link back to the post you're replying to.
Lookingforanswers
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Lookingforanswers »

2 more things:

1. You have a good list of public universities. Since your daughter is a good student, she should look at applying to the honors programs in the public universities she is interested in. Honors programs are really worth checking out -- smaller class sizes, often more experienced faculty teaching the classes, much more engaging classes. It can make the big public university experience more like a small school experience where you want it.

2. My experience with helping two children through the process is that for private schools, geography matters. If you are from region X in the US, then schools in region Y are more likely to be interested in your daughter and perhaps more forthcoming with aid because the admissions team try to round out their classes. The very top tier schools have no problem getting applicants from all over, but the schools just below that often are more generous with aid for students outside their home region.
Last edited by Lookingforanswers on Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bikesandbeers
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by bikesandbeers »

goru1 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:40 pm What should be the approach to pick from these list of OOS and private? She has already picked one in state.
OK, That is a huge list.
Beyond rankings for specific programs, you could narrow based on geography, or small vs large school.

Most of the public's are going to be large schools. I will add to the chorus that an out of state big school might not be the best value when you can get a private for the same price.

My cousin who grew up in southern California picked SMU over UCLA. She feel in love with the smaller school vibe I believe she got some aid but her parents were not happy with the price tag or the distance. What is worse for them is she fell in love with a texan and now their grandkids are in Austin.
Weather is better in California than Boston or Folorida or Texas.

I see some religious schools on there. If she is coming form a private/religious high school she might be more comfortable at one, although.

In terms of non-psyc majors, there is a demand for people working on human-computer interaction. There are Cognitive science degrees, but that as a completely different branch than psychology than say the MSW route.
otinkyad
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by otinkyad »

goru1 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:40 pm What should be the approach to pick from these list of OOS and private? She has already picked one in state.
Decide what she wants. Miami and Tulane are party schools, while Pepperdine is a buttoned-down Christian school with mandatory chapel last I looked (though falling just this side of creationist). SMU straddles the divide. WPI is an engineering school, maybe not even the children of faculty would pick it for Psychology. Probably the same for Rensselaer. I can imagine a mix of geographies and demographics, though other posters do not, and types of schools (ditto), but narrowing this down is mostly personal, and should reflect her choices.

I found Niche reviews helpful, and College Confidential, and other, departmental rankings (though those reflect the graduate programs). Tours, obviously, albeit virtual these days.
adestefan
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by adestefan »

As a graduate of a DIII school don’t forget about the small ones out there. There are a lot of excellent pre-med programs at small liberal arts schools that specialize in science programs. Some of them have very high rates of placement into top tier med schools.

You can also get some great financial aid packages. When you’re 1 of 1200 accepted instead of 1 of 10,000+ you can make your application stand out. I received a half scholarship at a private school that made my tuition less than I would have paid at a state school.
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

Edited list.

National, Public, Low to high rank:
- Indiana University Bloomington
- University of Minnesota Twin Cities
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
- University of Connecticut Storrs
- University of Washington Seattle
- Rutgers University New Brunswick Piscataway, NJ
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh
- Purdue University West Lafayette, IN
- Pennsylvania State University University Park
- Florida State University Tallahassee
- Ohio State University Columbus
- University of Georgia Athens
- University of Texas Austin Austin
- University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
- University of Wisconsin Madison
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg VA
- University of Florida Gainesville
- University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

National, Private, Low to high rank:
- Southern Methodist University Dallas
- University of Miami Coral Gables
- Case Western Reserve University Cleveland
- Boston University
Valuethinker
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Valuethinker »

camden wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:44 am Yes, I would imagine that Johns Hopkins might be a pretty good choice for medical school.

Seriously, we are getting way ahead of ourselves here. If the young lady is the type of student smart and industrious enough to be capable of compiling an undergrad record and MCAT scores which give her a fighting chance of gaining admission to Johns Hopkins for med school, it won’t matter a bit where she does her undergrad; she will have plenty of med schools to choose from.
Was I not clear I meant Johns Hopkins fir undergrad?
Chevelle
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by Chevelle »

OP- to clarify on the GPA, is that a 4.33 weighted or is it a 4.33 unweighted on a 5.0 scale? I (and I assume most here) are more familiar with a 4.0 scale, with anything above a 5 being a weighted grade. The difference between those two is probably not insignificant.

Sorry If I missed this above, but what is the reason for including such a broad geographic mix of state flagships? Are they included for scholarship considerations or something else?
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

Edited list.

National, Public, Low to high rank:
- Indiana University Bloomington
- University of Minnesota Twin Cities
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
- University of Connecticut Storrs
- Rutgers University New Brunswick Piscataway, NJ
- University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh
- Purdue University West Lafayette, IN
- Pennsylvania State University University Park
- Florida State University Tallahassee
- Ohio State University Columbus
- University of Georgia Athens
- University of Illinois Urbana Champaign
- University of Wisconsin Madison
- College of William and Mary Williamsburg VA
- University of Florida Gainesville
- University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

National, Private, Low to high rank:
- University of Miami Coral Gables
- Case Western Reserve University Cleveland
- Boston University
- Johns Hopkins University
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goru1
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by goru1 »

I would add Johns Hopkins University.
It has a low acceptance rate of 9.2%.
https://www.thoughtco.com/johns-hopkins ... ata-786518
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elcadarj
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Re: Undergrad College List

Post by elcadarj »

Dear DIL is now in PhD program in Clinical Psychology at UVa. Undergrad was UNC-CH. No loan in PhD program. They’re paying her.
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