How to get over finance envy

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
SQRT
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Re: "What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Post by SQRT »

Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:32 pm

My advice is to spend more time reading this forum, and less time watching people around you who are squandering their future.
I would agree with you except many people who spend like they are rich, are indeed rich and aren’t squandering anything. Obviously not all but most (the actual proportion is indeterminant of course)I suspect. Certainly just better not to compare yourself at all and just stop thinking about it. No need to impute a judgement on others to make yourself feel better. Probably just semantics at this point.
sailaway
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Re: "What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Post by sailaway »

Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:32 pm
My advice is to spend more time reading this forum, and less time watching people around you who are squandering their future.
Or, you could accept that different people have different priorities and ensure that you are living according to your own.
oldfort
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Re: "What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Post by oldfort »

Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:32 pm The answer to your question is obvious to anyone who has worked toward some level of financial security.

You are doing nothing wrong, "THEY" are doing nothing right.

The reality is that you are indeed doing everything right, including living in a rental, for now.

If you can "stay the course," you and your family are headed toward a successful future, including home ownership and a comfortable retirement.

You earn a significant income, and you have established excellent investing habits.

My advice is to spend more time reading this forum, and less time watching people around you who are squandering their future.
This forum can be a cause of financial envy. Think of all the threads with $5M+ in assets or $500k+ in household income.
littlebird
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by littlebird »

I once heard a snippet of conversation that has stayed with me for many years to illustrate how, for people who watch other people’s lives, there’s always more to want.

Volunteering for a nonprofit, I got to go to a fundraising soirée put on for high net worth donors, largely professional athletes and their spouses. Overheard in restroom:

Spouse 1: I heard you and Frank bought a getaway in (prestigious resort town). Congratulations!

Spouse 2: Yeah, It’s cool. I really like it. But it takes so long to get there. I heard Bonnie and Barry bought a small plane to fly to their getaway house. I’ve been telling Frank we should buy one too.
Mjar
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Mjar »

and when you have a nice nest egg and retire early or on time while they are still slaving away at work trying to keep up with their lifestyles they will think what are they doing wrong and what you did right.

I used to feel the same way until I set a goal of what is important to me with what I do with money. My goals are not their goals and vice versa. Focus on your goal and get there. Their goal may be to have all these things that they can or can't afford.

Instead of thinking the grass is greener on the other side, think how can I make my grass greener to me.
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Taylor Larimore
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Are you "outer directed" or "inner directed" ?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Bogleheads:

There are very rich people and very poor people. You and I are somewhere in the middle.

A very good friend of mine was a teacher of Silva Mind Control. He likes to say:
"There are two kinds of people--those who are "outer directed' and those who are "inner directed."
"Inner directed" people are happier.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "By worshiping at the altar of numbers and by discounting the immeasurable (trust, wisdom, character, ethical values), we have in effect created a numeric economy that can easily undermine the real one."
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: "What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

oldfort wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:04 pm
Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:32 pm The answer to your question is obvious to anyone who has worked toward some level of financial security.

You are doing nothing wrong, "THEY" are doing nothing right.

The reality is that you are indeed doing everything right, including living in a rental, for now.

If you can "stay the course," you and your family are headed toward a successful future, including home ownership and a comfortable retirement.

You earn a significant income, and you have established excellent investing habits.

My advice is to spend more time reading this forum, and less time watching people around you who are squandering their future.
This forum can be a cause of financial envy. Think of all the threads with $5M+ in assets or $500k+ in household income.
How about the $5,000 Watch thread? I’m particularly fond of the Can I Retire with $5M+ in assets threads.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Junimo15PF
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Junimo15PF »

I see this is an older thread but it's amazing how consistent human nature is and these are all good things to be thinking about!

I've personally had to fend off the envy when it comes to housing...I'm 31, married, and my husband I and rent a 4 bed condo--that we also share with another couple, their godson, and their kid! I live in HCOL area so people my age still renting is not totally uncommon, but plenty of my colleagues my age are buying homes, and I certainly don't know anybody sharing common areas with friends! Maybe people think we're nuts, but we like living with our friends, and it's what helps us achieve our financial goals while still living comfortably--4 incomes get a way nicer place than 2, go figure.
Dontridetheindexdown
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Dontridetheindexdown »

Junimo15PF wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:52 pm I see this is an older thread but it's amazing how consistent human nature is and these are all good things to be thinking about!

I've personally had to fend off the envy when it comes to housing...I'm 31, married, and my husband I and rent a 4 bed condo--that we also share with another couple, their godson, and their kid! I live in HCOL area so people my age still renting is not totally uncommon, but plenty of my colleagues my age are buying homes, and I certainly don't know anybody sharing common areas with friends! Maybe people think we're nuts, but we like living with our friends, and it's what helps us achieve our financial goals while still living comfortably--4 incomes get a way nicer place than 2, go figure.
Exactly correct!

That is why I recommend reading this thread.

It conveys innumerable ways to achieve your financial goals.
Normchad
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Re: "What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Post by Normchad »

sailaway wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:58 pm
Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:32 pm
My advice is to spend more time reading this forum, and less time watching people around you who are squandering their future.
Or, you could accept that different people have different priorities and ensure that you are living according to your own.
This is the truth here. Everybody should live their lives as they see fit. All of our independent decisions have pros and cons with them.

There is a very strong undercurrent here, and on this board, that our choices are the only correct ones, and others are being foolish or imprudent. Firstly, everybody should just mind their own business.

Your neighbors decisions in how they spend their money are no more wrong or right than your own, they are just different.

I would rather be your neighbor, living in hock up to my eyeballs, enjoying every day of my life in a frivolous fashion, than to be some misery Scrooge leaving millions unspent on their demise.

Money is meant to be spent and enjoyed. Different people do it differently, and that’s okay. Don’t get your knickers twisted when others make choices that don’t make sense to you. I’m certain your choices wouldn’t make sense to them either. But it’s okay, because you get to do, what you want, with your money.

Spending your life worried about what others do is a waste of your time. That is time you could be spending enjoying your own life. But if you want to spend your time doing that, it’s up to you.
av111
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Re: Are you "outer directed" or "inner directed" ?

Post by av111 »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:28 pm Bogleheads:

Silva Mind Control.

Best wishes.
Taylor


I practiced this earlier in my life. Found it very effective. So thanks Taylor for the reminder!

Re the topic, bay area peeps, have you noticed how 2 million homes are staying on the market for like a weekend?

"What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Answer - Amazon RSUs. More detailed answer is that they earn more
AV111
SQRT
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Re: "What are we doing wrong and what are "THEY" doing right!?"

Post by SQRT »

Normchad wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:08 pm
sailaway wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:58 pm
Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:32 pm
My advice is to spend more time reading this forum, and less time watching people around you who are squandering their future.
Or, you could accept that different people have different priorities and ensure that you are living according to your own.
This is the truth here. Everybody should live their lives as they see fit. All of our independent decisions have pros and cons with them.

There is a very strong undercurrent here, and on this board, that our choices are the only correct ones, and others are being foolish or imprudent. Firstly, everybody should just mind their own business.

Your neighbors decisions in how they spend their money are no more wrong or right than your own, they are just different.

I would rather be your neighbor, living in hock up to my eyeballs, enjoying every day of my life in a frivolous fashion, than to be some misery Scrooge leaving millions unspent on their demise.

Money is meant to be spent and enjoyed. Different people do it differently, and that’s okay. Don’t get your knickers twisted when others make choices that don’t make sense to you. I’m certain your choices wouldn’t make sense to them either. But it’s okay, because you get to do, what you want, with your money.

Spending your life worried about what others do is a waste of your time. That is time you could be spending enjoying your own life. But if you want to spend your time doing that, it’s up to you.
Agree. Well said. Spending decisions are personal. Worry about yourself. Stop comparing yourself to others. Pretty judgemental around here.
ER2023
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by ER2023 »

There is a lot of great advice in this thread. There are times when I need to remember what is really important, so I don't compare myself to others who appear to be more fortunate. The recent thread "Stage 4 Cancer and Young Family" certainly helps put things in perspective.
TheDDC
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by TheDDC »

They generally aren't more fortunate, but just appear to be. The easy answer is most people are in debt to their eyeballs in homes and cars they cannot afford, because "lifestyle reasons". With easy credit offered under the current interest rate environment expect it to continue on fake/borrowed money until it doesn't. Just wait for credit to get pinched, then you can afford the homes for a song after the foreclosures and will find some deals on repo vehicles at the sheriff sale. :P

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

TheDDC wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:59 pm They generally aren't more fortunate, but just appear to be. The easy answer is most people are in debt to their eyeballs in homes and cars they cannot afford, because "lifestyle reasons". With easy credit offered under the current interest rate environment expect it to continue on fake/borrowed money until it doesn't. Just wait for credit to get pinched, then you can afford the homes for a song after the foreclosures and will find some deals on repo vehicles at the sheriff sale. :P

-TheDDC
+1. Just this past week I had a relative show me their new car, only 60 easy payments! :oops:
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Dontridetheindexdown
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Dontridetheindexdown »

This forum helps people to prepare for the future, and those people who share their knowledge and experience are a treasure!

The most amazing aspect of this forum is the wide range of people who work toward financial security as they age, for when they can no longer work.

In my considered opinion, that is an extremely worthwhile goal.

The most admirable people on this forum share with us time and again - live below your means, invest, re-balance to maintain asset allocation

It does not require high income to prepare for your future, it requires commitment and perseverance.

Yes, the lowest priced Vanguard fund does have a $1000 minimum - if you can set aside a $20 bill for 50 weeks, you will have the price of admission.

It is that simple, the choice is yours - you can prepare for your future, or you can squander your future.

If you find that judgmental, so be it!
Barkingsparrow
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Barkingsparrow »

I know a lady, late 50's, who does not contribute a penny to her 401K because she claims she does not have enough money. Which is definitely not true. In talking to her, I suggested that at the least, maybe, contribute to company matching. Last year, she sold her paid-off home (paid off because of a divorce) to move into a bigger, much more expensive home, and took out a new mortgage on it. This despite that her kids are all moved away. All we did was congratulate on her new home, of which is she is obviously proud. You can see down 10, 15 years down the road and potential disaster for her without any retirement savings whatsoever. My experience is that some people only live in the moment, and don't want to bother with planning for the future. As it has been stated, it's her choice. You can sacrifice now for the future, or sacrifice your future for now.
GreenLawn
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by GreenLawn »

I don't live around or hang out with affluent folks so I don't have occasion to be envious. I live in a safe, moderate income neighborhood and shop at moderate income stores. Seems like I've saved myself a lot of stress after reading these comments. Or maybe I just don't care about expensive cars, homes and boats. Fun vacations? Okay, there may be some envy there :D
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FOGU
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by FOGU »

Antidotes to the Deadly Sin of Envy: Cultivating charity, magnanimity, rejoicing in the joy or success of others.
TheDDC
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by TheDDC »

Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:21 pm This forum helps people to prepare for the future, and those people who share their knowledge and experience are a treasure!

The most amazing aspect of this forum is the wide range of people who work toward financial security as they age, for when they can no longer work.

In my considered opinion, that is an extremely worthwhile goal.

The most admirable people on this forum share with us time and again - live below your means, invest, re-balance to maintain asset allocation

It does not require high income to prepare for your future, it requires commitment and perseverance.

Yes, the lowest priced Vanguard fund does have a $1000 minimum - if you can set aside a $20 bill for 50 weeks, you will have the price of admission.

It is that simple, the choice is yours - you can prepare for your future, or you can squander your future.

If you find that judgmental, so be it!
Well said. If the OP buys an ETF he can start buying in sooner than that even!

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
Kelrex
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Kelrex »

GreenLawn wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:20 pm I don't live around or hang out with affluent folks so I don't have occasion to be envious. I live in a safe, moderate income neighborhood and shop at moderate income stores. Seems like I've saved myself a lot of stress after reading these comments. Or maybe I just don't care about expensive cars, homes and boats. Fun vacations? Okay, there may be some envy there :D
Perhaps.

There's also a bit of an inoculation effect of spending a lot of time with people across all levels of wealth.

People are just people, and level of wealth and quality of toys really has very little impact on how happy they are and what they're like as people.

It becomes extremely self evident though that having a solid sense of self, sense of purpose, and perspective of life being rich has virtually no correlation with wealth.
Dandy
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Dandy »

I have never been envious of other people's wealth. I felt that way even when I didn't have wealth. When i think of all the people who have ever lived -- billions of people over the centuries -- I always felt I was better off than 99.9% of them. I have a wonderful wife and family, live in a safe town, have my health, had a decent job, etc. If I get sick I have better care than royalty had in the past. If I'm hungry I have better choices, same if I get bored.

If someone else has a bit more money or bling - good for them -- I'm happy.
tryingtogetahead
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by tryingtogetahead »

LFKB wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:36 am Lots of great advice in this thread, especially from Taylor (as always).

As a child of someone who lived above their means, I've seen the damage it can do. Struggling with finances and worrying about debt makes things tough, especially when income goes down or unexpected expenses pop up.

I am fortunate enough to have a high income but still live well below by means and am able to help them out financially. I can't solve all their problems, but have seen firsthand the damage having money work against you (interest and financing costs) vs. for you (dividends, stock appreciation, interest payments, etc) can do.

Having said that, everyone needs to find a happy medium of the right amount to save/invest and the right amount to spend to allow them to reach their goals. I'm not sure where exactly you stand on this spectrum, but i do feel some people on here are too conservative and could stand to live a bit more. To each his/her own though.
I’d like to echo this. I grew up in a very working class family. Neither of my parents graduated from HS. When I met my in-laws shortly after meeting my now wife, they were living the dream — huge house, expensive German cars, constantly eating out, vacations, high end clothing, etc. I thought they had it all figured out. My parents lived modestly and I inherited that gene. We both bought homes for well below our means and drive economy cars. We enjoy life but watch our spending. Several years have passed since my wife and I got together. My in-laws have since filed bankruptcy, gone into foreclosure and now rent a condo with our assistance. They are ostracized by their rich friends. They will work until they die. My parents are retired. When not with grandchildren, they are wintering in Aruba and summering in Europe.
tryingtogetahead
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by tryingtogetahead »

Barkingsparrow wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:04 pm I know a lady, late 50's, who does not contribute a penny to her 401K because she claims she does not have enough money. Which is definitely not true. In talking to her, I suggested that at the least, maybe, contribute to company matching. Last year, she sold her paid-off home (paid off because of a divorce) to move into a bigger, much more expensive home, and took out a new mortgage on it. This despite that her kids are all moved away. All we did was congratulate on her new home, of which is she is obviously proud. You can see down 10, 15 years down the road and potential disaster for her without any retirement savings whatsoever. My experience is that some people only live in the moment, and don't want to bother with planning for the future. As it has been stated, it's her choice. You can sacrifice now for the future, or sacrifice your future for now.
I have a colleague who goes to Europe every year, gets take out every night, drives two leased Mercedes and keeps complaining that she has $0 saved for her son for college who starts this month and she cannot understand how anyone is expected to have money for college. Maybe this is everyone I know. :oops:
SQRT
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by SQRT »

TheDDC wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:59 pm They generally aren't more fortunate, but just appear to be. The easy answer is most people are in debt to their eyeballs in homes and cars they cannot afford, because "lifestyle reasons". With easy credit offered under the current interest rate environment expect it to continue on fake/borrowed money until it doesn't. Just wait for credit to get pinched, then you can afford the homes for a song after the foreclosures and will find some deals on repo vehicles at the sheriff sale. :P

-TheDDC
There we go inputting moral judgements on other possibly wealthier people again. Most people who have a wealthy lifestyle can afford it. Get over it. This kind of thinking reinforces the whole envy mindset. Just ignore how other people spend.
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batpot
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by batpot »

SQRT wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:44 am
TheDDC wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:59 pm They generally aren't more fortunate, but just appear to be. The easy answer is most people are in debt to their eyeballs in homes and cars they cannot afford, because "lifestyle reasons". With easy credit offered under the current interest rate environment expect it to continue on fake/borrowed money until it doesn't. Just wait for credit to get pinched, then you can afford the homes for a song after the foreclosures and will find some deals on repo vehicles at the sheriff sale. :P

-TheDDC
There we go inputting moral judgements on other possibly wealthier people again. Most people who have a wealthy lifestyle can afford it. Get over it. This kind of thinking reinforces the whole envy mindset. Just ignore how other people spend.
to be fair, the title of the thread is "how to get over finance envy".
One great way to do it is assume everyone in a luxury car is swimming in debt...

Kind of like the "imagine they're naked" technique to public speaking.
Chuck107
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Chuck107 »

.....
Last edited by Chuck107 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alas, I find moderation of this forum too restrictive for my tastes, farewell.
SQRT
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by SQRT »

batpot wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:25 am
SQRT wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:44 am
TheDDC wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:59 pm They generally aren't more fortunate, but just appear to be. The easy answer is most people are in debt to their eyeballs in homes and cars they cannot afford, because "lifestyle reasons". With easy credit offered under the current interest rate environment expect it to continue on fake/borrowed money until it doesn't. Just wait for credit to get pinched, then you can afford the homes for a song after the foreclosures and will find some deals on repo vehicles at the sheriff sale. :P

-TheDDC
There we go inputting moral judgements on other possibly wealthier people again. Most people who have a wealthy lifestyle can afford it. Get over it. This kind of thinking reinforces the whole envy mindset. Just ignore how other people spend.
to be fair, the title of the thread is "how to get over finance envy".
One great way to do it is assume everyone in a luxury car is swimming in debt...

Kind of like the "imagine they're naked" technique to public speaking.
Good point. An attitude of “everybody who spends a lot is in debt up to their ears” solves a lot of problems I guess. I could probably come up with some other rationalizations? How about “I worked hard for everything I got but others were just lucky” Or “she does look pretty good. Must be a face lift”. Any others?
Last edited by SQRT on Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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unclescrooge
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by unclescrooge »

tryingtogetahead wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:35 am
Barkingsparrow wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:04 pm I know a lady, late 50's, who does not contribute a penny to her 401K because she claims she does not have enough money. Which is definitely not true. In talking to her, I suggested that at the least, maybe, contribute to company matching. Last year, she sold her paid-off home (paid off because of a divorce) to move into a bigger, much more expensive home, and took out a new mortgage on it. This despite that her kids are all moved away. All we did was congratulate on her new home, of which is she is obviously proud. You can see down 10, 15 years down the road and potential disaster for her without any retirement savings whatsoever. My experience is that some people only live in the moment, and don't want to bother with planning for the future. As it has been stated, it's her choice. You can sacrifice now for the future, or sacrifice your future for now.
I have a colleague who goes to Europe every year, gets take out every night, drives two leased Mercedes and keeps complaining that she has $0 saved for her son for college who starts this month and she cannot understand how anyone is expected to have money for college. Maybe this is everyone I know. :oops:
I actively disassociate myself from everyone with bad money habits.

Or they actively disassociate themselves because they're tired of my constant nagging regarding their poor money habits.
MMiroir
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by MMiroir »

tryingtogetahead wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:26 amI’d like to echo this. I grew up in a very working class family. Neither of my parents graduated from HS. When I met my in-laws shortly after meeting my now wife, they were living the dream — huge house, expensive German cars, constantly eating out, vacations, high end clothing, etc. I thought they had it all figured out. My parents lived modestly and I inherited that gene. We both bought homes for well below our means and drive economy cars. We enjoy life but watch our spending. Several years have passed since my wife and I got together. My in-laws have since filed bankruptcy, gone into foreclosure and now rent a condo with our assistance. They are ostracized by their rich friends. They will work until they die. My parents are retired. When not with grandchildren, they are wintering in Aruba and summering in Europe.
Another echo here. My first employer told this story 30 years ago, and it has stuck with me ever since. He was financial professional with a small company and was married to his childhood sweetheart who also had an twin sister. The twin was married to a successful attorney, and they liked to spend on the fancy house, cars and vacations. Even though they were identical, the twin married to the attorney had a facelift, looked and dressed at least 5 years younger, and drove a Mercedes while his wife drove a Volkswagen. According to my boss, his wife was always complaining about how her sister did this, that or the other, but they didn't have the money to do much of anything.

One day, after lunch with the sister, his wife came home and was worried about retirement. Apparently, the sister confided that even though they were in their 50's, they had less than $100,000 saved for retirement, and she was worried about how my boss and his wife were doing since he made so much less than her husband, the attorney. His response was to pull out some financial statements which showed more than $1,000,000 in liquid assets. For the first time, she realized that she was in a much better position than her free-spending sister.

The difference continued as their kids grew up. My bosses kids went to good colleges and entered solid careers. Last I heard the sisters kids flunked out of directional schools and were working hourly jobs.
Miguelito
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Miguelito »

I didn't read the whole thread, but while I also believe in not worrying about what others do because many live beyond their means, you need to be cautious of over-generalizing - especially in a HCOLA.

There is a LOT of wealth in these areas. $180k income is not a lot for areas like these. It never ceases to amaze me. There are entire suburban towns in MA, for example, where the median household income is above that. Many of the people you see are probably not living above their means. Others may not exactly be making the most Boglehead decision, but it will not send them to financial ruin - not even close. For others, it may be more than they ought to be spending now, but if they are still in their 30's, incomes could continue to climb and that fancy leased car will not look like such a bad move after all.

Ultimately, you never know people's situations. Most folks build their careers progressively and incomes peak and could climb significantly in their 40's or later. Others, like hot shot lawyers or consultants, for example, could have made a lot of money early on and then moved to less stressful jobs that still pay well but not nearly as much as early on. Except that in those early years, they could have paid off loans, saved for a hefty down payment, etc. That allows for living a much more comfortable life on less.

Also, in those areas, do not underestimate family wealth. Parents could have gifted huge down payments, paid for college, offered to pay for grandchildren's college, take extended family on vacations, offer their vacation home for use, etc. And of course, for some, knowing a huge inheritance awaits them, leads them to not be so worried about saving for old age. You just don't know.
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BogleFanGal
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by BogleFanGal »

Dandy wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:44 am I have never been envious of other people's wealth. I felt that way even when I didn't have wealth. When i think of all the people who have ever lived -- billions of people over the centuries -- I always felt I was better off than 99.9% of them. I have a wonderful wife and family, live in a safe town, have my health, had a decent job, etc. If I get sick I have better care than royalty had in the past. If I'm hungry I have better choices, same if I get bored.

If someone else has a bit more money or bling - good for them -- I'm happy.
this is a wonderful attitude and mindset - thanks for posting
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain
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FelixTheCat
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by FelixTheCat »

I remember envy.

In 2007 my friends had big houses, boats, motorhomes, quad runners and other toys. They were out having fun three weekends a month. I was quietly saving money and wondering how they lived so well. When the crash hit in 2008, I found out years later their truth. They weren't paying their mortgages. Eventually every one of them lost their assets.

This simple lesson taught me to not to compare myself to others.
Felix is a wonderful, wonderful cat.
SQRT
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by SQRT »

FelixTheCat wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:26 pm

In 2007 my friends had big houses, boats, motorhomes, quad runners and other toys. They were out having fun three weekends a month. I was quietly saving money and wondering how they lived so well. When the crash hit in 2008, I found out years later their truth. They weren't paying their mortgages. Eventually every one of them lost their assets.

This simple lesson taught me to not to compare myself to others.
Agree that one should not compare to others. Surprised that all your friends lost their assets. None of my friends did. Your friends sound a lot more fun? :happy
Nicolas
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Nicolas »

Chuck107 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:40 am There used to be a commercial which I find appropriate when things just don't seem fair, or how do they afford so much and I can't.

I am not advocating the finance company putting out the commercial btw.

https://youtu.be/LG-Z-kYSC4s
It’s a great commercial, I laughed a lot when it was broadcast, and so true!
BradJ
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by BradJ »

I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
grettman
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by grettman »

BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
TheDDC
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by TheDDC »

grettman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm
BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
Usually not the case.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
TheLaughingCow
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by TheLaughingCow »

A commercial I enjoyed follows along these lines.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r0HX4a5P8eE
SQRT
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by SQRT »

grettman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm
BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
Well said.
BradJ
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by BradJ »

TheDDC wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:15 pm
grettman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm
BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
Usually not the case.

-TheDDC
My approach is effective, true or not.
TheDDC
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by TheDDC »

BradJ wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:17 pm
TheDDC wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:15 pm
grettman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm
BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
Usually not the case.

-TheDDC
My approach is effective, true or not.
Except it doesn’t match the reality. Overextended is “normal” in those circles.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
Tingting1013
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Tingting1013 »

My Bay Area neighbors almost certainly can afford their Teslas many times over.
Texanbybirth
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by Texanbybirth »

FOGU wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:51 pm Antidotes to the Deadly Sin of Envy: Cultivating charity, magnanimity, rejoicing in the joy or success of others.
Very well said.
“The strong cannot be brave. Only the weak can be brave; and yet again, in practice, only those who can be brave can be trusted, in time of doubt, to be strong.“ - GK Chesterton
rockstar
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by rockstar »

I'm trying to wrap my head around this thread. I'm most happy when I'm sleeping in a tent in the woods and camping with friends. I live in a safe neighborhood in AZ, drive a modest SUV, and spend as much time outdoors as I can. My HHI is almost 6x my neighbors, but they would never know it. I don't want a big house. What makes me happy is being on a trail. I don't get the financial envy. I don't want stuff. It will just end up at Goodwill. One of my friends is building out a used Springer Van and wants to embrace #vanlife for a while. She wants no clutter in their life. She's in her 60s. I get it. The older I get the more I save because I make more, but I don't have lifestyle creep. I enjoyed hiking, camping, and backpacking in my 20s, and I still love it in my 40s.

The reality is that I end up saving a lot and investing it because I don't know what to do with it.

What makes you happy? Have you figured it out yet?
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

BradJ wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:17 pm
TheDDC wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:15 pm
grettman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm
BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
Usually not the case.

-TheDDC
My approach is effective, true or not.
How do you know they are usually over-extended? That is your lame excuse for not being able to make as much money as others. Even if some are over-extended, it is their problem, not yours. Some people make more money than you, sometime a lot more. That is life. No sour grapes or bad mouthing.
TheDDC
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by TheDDC »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:45 pm
BradJ wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:17 pm
TheDDC wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:15 pm
grettman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm
BradJ wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm I just tell myself all of those people make a lot more money than me and therefore can live better. True or not, it’s a logical answer to an ancient question.
Good point. Don’t assume those who spend money on luxuries are over extended. Some people frankly are doing better than you. The neighbor who spends a ton of money might very well have a ton of cash. Move on. Be thankful for what you have. Want more? Work harder and/or smarter. Oh and no matter how rich you are, someone is richer than you!
Usually not the case.

-TheDDC
My approach is effective, true or not.
How do you know they are usually over-extended? That is your lame excuse for not being able to make as much money as others. Even if some are over-extended, it is their problem, not yours. Some people make more money than you, sometime a lot more. That is life. No sour grapes or bad mouthing.
You can believe that if you'd like. We look at statistics to describe an overall population. More often than not it's vanity and it's debt up their eyeballs. Anyway, this thread is mostly pointless. To OP: Maybe it's possible to get as much in debt as these people if you work at it hard?

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
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mgullo
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Re: Are you "outer directed" or "inner directed" ?

Post by mgullo »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:28 pm Bogleheads:

There are very rich people and very poor people. You and I are somewhere in the middle.

A very good friend of mine was a teacher of Silva Mind Control. He likes to say:
"There are two kinds of people--those who are "outer directed' and those who are "inner directed."
"Inner directed" people are happier.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "By worshiping at the altar of numbers and by discounting the immeasurable (trust, wisdom, character, ethical values), we have in effect created a numeric economy that can easily undermine the real one."
Happy to see a post from you, Taylor, and I hope you are well. I always appreciate reading your thoughts. Simple, sensible, and often quite apropos.
Aim above morality. Be not simply good, be good for something. | -Thoreau
the way
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by the way »

This is the Tenth Commandment. People thousands of years ago already figured out this is morally wrong and harmful to society. Envy can lead to jealousy, judgement, schadenfreude, bitterness, hatred, and other evil thoughts. People who seem to rationalize that their neighbor must be living above their means (and will therefore pay for it in the long run), undeserving, or simply lucky should remember that your success does not depend on their failure.
basspond
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Re: How to get over finance envy

Post by basspond »

the way wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:51 am This is the Tenth Commandment. People thousands of years ago already figured out this is morally wrong and harmful to society. Envy can lead to jealousy, judgement, schadenfreude, bitterness, hatred, and other evil thoughts. People who seem to rationalize that their neighbor must be living above their means (and will therefore pay for it in the long run), undeserving, or simply lucky should remember that your success does not depend on their failure.
In my faith there are two commandments about coveting. Remember the root of all evil is not money but the love of if. Keep up your strategy and in the long run you will be successful. Our plan took over 30 years to become reality.
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