charging an EV

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Tenesmus83
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:32 pm

charging an EV

Post by Tenesmus83 »

I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
RocketShipTech
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Re: charging an EV

Post by RocketShipTech »

Charge at home overnight

Rent a gas car for long distance trips. $30/day
cadreamer2015
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Location: North County San Diego

Re: charging an EV

Post by cadreamer2015 »

Or buy a Plug-in Hybrid.
De gustibus non est disputandum
mbasherp
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Re: charging an EV

Post by mbasherp »

If you are a two car household, making one an EV is a great approach.

If only one car, you might prefer one of the plug in hybrid (PHEV) vehicles out there, where you can get ~40 miles around town (Potentially all your normal daily drives) on electric and still have an internal combustion engine onboard for trips.

To me, the best approach currently is for a two car household to have one EV and one PHEV.
adamthesmythe
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Re: charging an EV

Post by adamthesmythe »

Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
This is why I did not consider electric for a recent purchase. I take long trips in the southwest (well, I DID take long trips before the zombie apocalypse, and hope to do so again).
Normchad
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

I bought an EV a year ago. I absolutely love it.

A lot of people share that concern, and range anxiety as well. For most people, it takes about four months after you buy one to stop thinking about it. It happened that way for me too.

In my case, I’ve got an EV, and my wife has a traditional car. I charge at home, usually just need to do it once a week. I have only used the supercharger 4 times during that year. So yes, basically all of my charging is done at home.

Using the supercharger is easy, and for me fun. I actually like gas stations, so it’s no trouble for me to go to one. But I understand most people wouldn’t enjoy that.

I can go any where in America with my EV. I have no concerns about that.
But honestly, if I was going to go someplace more than 500 miles away, I’d just take the wife’s car. I don’t mind stopping once, but I don’t want to stop twice. The convenience of gasoline is just absolutely superb.

On the other hand, I basically never drive anywhere that far anyway. For trips like that, I just fly.

Lots of people though do,like road tripping. They should think long and hard about doing it in an EV. Although I’ve heard lots of people love doing it in their EV.

I’d also recommend against buying an EV if you can’t charge at home.

I have zero regrets about buying an EV.
squirm
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Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

That's why people buy Tesla's. Tesla has charging figured out.
squirm
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Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

Or buy a plug in electric, do most of your driving on ev and when you take a road trip, you don't worry about charging. Best of both worlds.
Normchad
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

squirm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 pm That's why people buy Tesla's. Tesla has charging figured out.
Very true. Long range charging for other makers appears to be a complete mess.
TravelforFun
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Re: charging an EV

Post by TravelforFun »

Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:22 pm
squirm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 pm That's why people buy Tesla's. Tesla has charging figured out.
Very true. Long range charging for other makers appears to be a complete mess.
True! Tesla Trip Planner lays out everything for you so you would know where to stop and charge on the way to your destination.

TravelforFun
CheckMate404
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Re: charging an EV

Post by CheckMate404 »

Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
We had two cars. A Tesla Model 3, and a Volvo XC90. We commonly take 5+ hour long road trips, even cross country (coast to coast). After our first road trip in the Tesla, we realized we greatly preferred it to the Volvo. We eventually sold the Volvo after we realized we drove it 0 times since receiving the Tesla.

We spent more time looking for and getting gas, than we spent waiting for a charge. By a lot.

If you’re concerned, keep your gas car around for a few months. I suspect you’ll have the same experience we did.
sambb
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Re: charging an EV

Post by sambb »

hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
Normchad
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

sambb wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:32 pm hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
A hybrid is certainly a great option. It would reduce pollution, a states goal of the OP.
alexander29
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Re: charging an EV

Post by alexander29 »

I recently got a long-range (315 mile) Tesla and love it. So far I've only charged at home, and for local trips a charge will easily last a week or more. But you do need to think about where you want to go. The company advises routinely charging the battery only to 90 percent to extend its life, and most of us wouldn't want to go below 10 percent and risk being stranded. So 80 percent of 315 becomes 252, although you CAN charge to 100 percent for the occasional trip. The range will degrade slightly over time. Heat, cold, weight, wet roads, hills, and wind can also trim range: on the worst days your "real world" risk-free range with a normal charge might drop towards 220 miles or so. For most of us that's adequate, and represents three or four hours of nonstop driving, but you need to examine your own needs. It's also easiest to charge at home with a 220 outlet.

I didn't drive my gasoline cars their maximum range either. Nor did they achieve their ideal EPA mpg estimates. For me, the excellent driving characteristics of an EV (you must test drive one!), their quiet, their zero emissions, and the satisfaction of skipping gas stations and oil changes makes the Tesla a joy. Electricity is cheaper for me than gas, so far saving about $100 a month. The car software is constantly being upgraded. And there are either Tesla superchargers or other auto chargers in most places, with more added all the time.
BuckyBadger
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Re: charging an EV

Post by BuckyBadger »

Plug in hybrids and regular hybrids are certainly excellent for fuel conservation, but they do lack one of the best aspects of having a true EV. The lack of maintenance and the longevity.

An electric engine had about 20 moving parts. An ICE engine has about 2,000. EVs should last considerably longer with significantly less maintenance aside from tires and brakes pads.
Katietsu
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Katietsu »

Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm
sambb wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:32 pm hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
A hybrid is certainly a great option. It would reduce pollution, a states goal of the OP.
But if you concern is reducing your carbon footprint, I would not by a 7 passenger vehicle unless absolutely necessary.

Whether EV is less polluting than ICE depends partially on how your electric is produced. I live in part of the country where the only difference is whether the pollution will be coming from the tailpipe or the smokestack. Driving a vehicle that gets over 50 mpg and keeping mileage driven down are the primary ways I stay green. That said, I do like my PHEV for the lack of engine noise on electric.
clutchied
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Re: charging an EV

Post by clutchied »

Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
I've had an EV since 2017 and a Tesla model 3 since early 2019.

In practice if you can charge at home having an EV is better than a gas car. The pandemic has brought this into crystal focus for me.


A tesla for longer distance travel will have "Superchargers" they are Tesla specific rapid chargers that go from 10%-75% ish in about 20 mins. It may "sound" like a long time but it's not. In practice I'm often not done with what I'm doing and the car is ready to go. We misjudge the time we spend at gas stations and pretend it's 5 mins but it's really not.

I've had zero issues switching to a Tesla and I won't go back to a gas car. My other EV was local travel only so no thoughts on that.

Mostly the bigger battery the more flexibility you have. It takes time to switch from a "tank of gas" thought process to a battery. You wake up with whatever charge level you want for the day every day. I run my battery 70%-30% charge cycles but during the pandemic I've switched to 55%-45% as I just don't drive everywhere and batteries do better in their middle ranges.
clutchied
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Re: charging an EV

Post by clutchied »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:37 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm
sambb wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:32 pm hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
A hybrid is certainly a great option. It would reduce pollution, a states goal of the OP.
But if you concern is reducing your carbon footprint, I would not by a 7 passenger vehicle unless absolutely necessary.

Whether EV is less polluting than ICE depends partially on how your electric is produced. I live in part of the country where the only difference is whether the pollution will be coming from the tailpipe or the smokestack. Driving a vehicle that gets over 50 mpg and keeping mileage driven down are the primary ways I stay green. That said, I do like my PHEV for the lack of engine noise on electric.
with that being said there is only one option that gets cleaner with age and that's an EV. As the US grid migrates to renewables your EV will "use less emissions." Also a centralized power producer is more efficient than a local gas engine regardless of whether it's coal or not.
flyingaway
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Re: charging an EV

Post by flyingaway »

I read some reports that charging an EV commercially (out of your house) is more expensive than filling gas. In other words, running an EV is more expensive than running a gas car for the same mileages, can someone confirm or disconfirm this?
onourway
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Re: charging an EV

Post by onourway »

flyingaway wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:51 am I read some reports that charging an EV commercially (out of your house) is more expensive than filling gas. In other words, running an EV is more expensive than running a gas car for the same mileages, can someone confirm or disconfirm this?
This entirely depends on your specific electric rate, the EV you buy and its efficiency, and the gasoline car you compare it to - it's efficiency and the cost of gas for you locally.

Edit - I see I misunderstood your question.

Yes, at most charging stations you have to pay for charging can be quite expensive. You should be able to search and find rates for charge networks in your region, and make the comparison based on the above factors.
Last edited by onourway on Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
bikesandbeers
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Re: charging an EV

Post by bikesandbeers »

Yes, Most public fast charge stations are as expensive as a gas station, although some networks (Like Electrify America or EVGO) offer free charging for two years year when you buy your car (depending on brand).
Tesla has cut out free charging, but has the most extensive nationwide network. and it is cheaper than Electrify America or EVGO.
But hopefully you do 60-75% of your miles from home using lower cost electricity.

Take a look at PlugShare (or the Tesla page, if considering a Tesla) for your road trip routes and see what is there.

I have the Pacific PHEV with a 30 mile range, I I managed to do 900 electric miles out of a 1500 mile road trip (over a week). The key was planning overnights at hotels with free charging, plus staying with family where i could stretch a level 1 cord to a wall outlet.
Hotels are likely to have free charging.

Also had lunch almost every day near a charging stations. This was in CA,(with a little corner of NV near Tahoe, but included some pretty remote parts. You can also plug in at RV parks if you are going super remote.
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4nursebee
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Re: charging an EV

Post by 4nursebee »

Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
How old are you?
Do you still have an Iron Arse and an ever expandable bladder?
Nobody except TSLA has fast charging.
We just took our 3 on longest trip. Range is 300. Bladder and walk around time coincided with charging, time of charge was acceptable.
Renting on Turo convinced us. Best $800 week rental ever.
If you relish 800 miles non stop my guess is the tech and wiz bang stuff that comes with a TSLA will outweigh the non stop concerns.
How often does one need 800 mile non stop? We rarely need more than 90 miles or 180 round trip. All easily handled from home, with solar power.

Oh yeah, no brand other than TSLA has fast charging solved.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

Take a look around the map where you are.
Pale Blue Dot
WhyNotUs
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Re: charging an EV

Post by WhyNotUs »

Doesn't sounds the an EV is right for the OP. The potential of a 20 minute charge is too daunting.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
bagle
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Re: charging an EV

Post by bagle »

To the OP, if you know what long-distance routes you might take, have a look at abetterrouteplanner.com.

It will tell you just how many recharging stops you'll need and their duration. You can do this for any EV make and model. Of course, you'll generally have shorter stops if you choose a Tesla due to its fast Supercharger network.
investor997
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Re: charging an EV

Post by investor997 »

I've owned my Tesla Model 3 for almost two years.

Make no mistake, road trips in the Tesla are more annoying. The range is less than advertised and charging stations are fewer and further between. But road trips are pretty rare compared to around town activity. I'm close to home 99% of the time and for that use case, the Tesla can't be beat.
Normchad
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

flyingaway wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:51 am I read some reports that charging an EV commercially (out of your house) is more expensive than filling gas. In other words, running an EV is more expensive than running a gas car for the same mileages, can someone confirm or disconfirm this?
I’d never say never, but I can’t imagine that being true for me. The few times I’ve been to the supercharger, I’ve never paid more than 7 or 8 dollars, for about 200 miles of additional range. But I suppose if you had a hybrid Camry and git 50 miles per gallon, it would be close. Ive never had a car that ever got more than 30mpg in the real, world though.

Ang again, almost all of my charging is done at home. When I did my initial calculations, I think I pay about 3 cents/mile with this car, and was paying about 11 cents/mile with my gas powered Honda.

I don’t have any experience with non-Tesla chargers however.
Uniballer
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Uniballer »

My concern about an electric vehicle is different.

In November 2000 I was trapped on a major limited access highway during a surprise afternoon snow storm, less than 20 miles from my home in Western New York. A tractor-trailer had jack-knifed ahead of me and closed the road until it could be removed. By the time the truck was removed there was about 2 feet of snow on the road. There were hundreds (thousands?) of other people in the same boat. We got rolling at around 11AM the next morning.

I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
delamer
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Re: charging an EV

Post by delamer »

TravelforFun wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:28 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:22 pm
squirm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 pm That's why people buy Tesla's. Tesla has charging figured out.
Very true. Long range charging for other makers appears to be a complete mess.
True! Tesla Trip Planner lays out everything for you so you would know where to stop and charge on the way to your destination.

TravelforFun
Was it another thread here that mentioned that over the last couple holiday weekends (pre-pandemic), there were 1-hour-plus waits at the charging stations because of high traffic volume?

We are having solar panels installed this fall and there will be a built-in vehicle charger (in the garage) as part of the system.

We are looking around and will probably go with a PHEV, but have not ruled out an EV.
MotoTrojan
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Re: charging an EV

Post by MotoTrojan »

Uniballer wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
Not sure how long it can run the heating but I do know that lithium ion batteries lose a lot of capacity in the cold in general so this would not be a good situation. Maybe carry a gas generator so you can keep warm on the side of the road :mrgreen:.
cusetownusa
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Re: charging an EV

Post by cusetownusa »

Uniballer wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm My concern about an electric vehicle is different.

In November 2000 I was trapped on a major limited access highway during a surprise afternoon snow storm, less than 20 miles from my home in Western New York. A tractor-trailer had jack-knifed ahead of me and closed the road until it could be removed. By the time the truck was removed there was about 2 feet of snow on the road. There were hundreds (thousands?) of other people in the same boat. We got rolling at around 11AM the next morning.

I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
I remember this...was living in Buffalo at the time.

I have lived most of my life in this area and I have never been stranded like this. How often do you expect this to happen to you that it becomes a factor in your decisions.

Either way, I would think an EV (like a Tesla) could keep the car warm for a long time. Maybe someone that owns a Tesla would have a better idea how long. However, it will obviously depend on the battery charge just as a gas engine vehicle running to heat the cabin would depend on how much gas was in the tank.
atikovi
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Re: charging an EV

Post by atikovi »

investor997 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:54 pm The range is less than advertised and charging stations are fewer and further between.
If you think charging stations are fewer and further between, try driving a CNG car.
bikesandbeers
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Re: charging an EV

Post by bikesandbeers »

4nursebee wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:15 am
Oh yeah, no brand other than TSLA has fast charging solved.
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

Take a look around the map where you are.
I don't know what qualifies as solved. As noted, some busy superchargers often have waits, especially holiday weekends, although Tesla is working to expand capacity.

If you have to drive more than 300 miles more than a few times a years a year, and EV may not be right for you. The Honda Clarity PhEV is great

I had a Nissan Leaf (range 80-100 miles) and made some 200 mile trips not a huge problem. stopped for a cup of coffe and a bathroom break and was on my way. Also did a 350 mile trip in a Chevy Bolt with a 9 month old. Stopped for a a diaper + bottle twice. Again if you do 300+ mile trips all the time and don't want to stop, maybe skip the E But don't let it be a barrier.

I would worry about blizzards. Maybe think about an aux 12v lithium battery with a heated blanket or a propane buddy heather in case of emergency.
fareastwarriors
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Re: charging an EV

Post by fareastwarriors »

Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
Best way is just drive less.


No, I have no hesitation but I also don't do long road trips. Not my style.
squirm
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Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

Uniballer wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm My concern about an electric vehicle is different.

In November 2000 I was trapped on a major limited access highway during a surprise afternoon snow storm, less than 20 miles from my home in Western New York. A tractor-trailer had jack-knifed ahead of me and closed the road until it could be removed. By the time the truck was removed there was about 2 feet of snow on the road. There were hundreds (thousands?) of other people in the same boat. We got rolling at around 11AM the next morning.

I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
An EV in a snow storm don't mix.
Normchad
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Re: charging an EV

Post by Normchad »

squirm wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:06 pm
Uniballer wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm My concern about an electric vehicle is different.

In November 2000 I was trapped on a major limited access highway during a surprise afternoon snow storm, less than 20 miles from my home in Western New York. A tractor-trailer had jack-knifed ahead of me and closed the road until it could be removed. By the time the truck was removed there was about 2 feet of snow on the road. There were hundreds (thousands?) of other people in the same boat. We got rolling at around 11AM the next morning.

I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
An EV in a snow storm don't mix.
I have driven my Model 3 in two snow storms, and it was excellent. It is all wheel drive, and most of the weight is very low to the road, and the weight distribution is close to 50/50. It was very confidence inspiring.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to be stranded in a blizzard for ten plus hours in anything, including this. I frankly don’t know how well it would do.

One big downside with an EV right now is this, if you run out of juice, you’re just stuck. You can’t walk up the highway and get more to put in it. You’re gonna need to be towed to a charger.....

But on the third hand, it does have a huge battery, and supposedly keeping yourself warm with just the seat heaters is very easy in the battery......

I have zero hesitations about driving it in inclement weather and snow.
hunoraut
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Re: charging an EV

Post by hunoraut »

Uniballer wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm My concern about an electric vehicle is different.

In November 2000 I was trapped on a major limited access highway during a surprise afternoon snow storm, less than 20 miles from my home in Western New York. A tractor-trailer had jack-knifed ahead of me and closed the road until it could be removed. By the time the truck was removed there was about 2 feet of snow on the road. There were hundreds (thousands?) of other people in the same boat. We got rolling at around 11AM the next morning.

I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
if heating consumes 4000 watts, 25% of battery will power the heater for 5 straight hours. or, if used in 1/4th hour spurts, then a duration of 20 hours. electric cars are also exceptionally efficient at crawling traffic speeds, because the baseline consumption is near minimal. a computer is easier to power than an idling motor.

that said, the real-world test probably isn't a swan event that happened 19 years ago. the real world test happens in places like norway where you cant swing a cat without hitting a tesla.

***

i wouldn't endorse PHEV aka Hybrids. you lose the proposition of a simplified drivetrain. you still have the mechanically-complex combustion drivetrain, but undersized and underpowered, and you add 400 pounds of electric drivetrain on top which is under-capacity and underpowered....worst of both worlds.

***

my advice is to examine when and how you actually make these trips. what is the real world context of the travel and how an electric car might fit in them. these are the trips i made/make all the time:

(1) 150-200mi one way trips. visiting family, weekend house, ski destination, etc.

[*]conventional car: car starts at random tank (because thats life). could be full, could be half, could be near empty. meaning atleast half of the time, i would make a 5 minute gas stop along the route.
[*]electric car: car starts at full (because it plugs in at home, work, etc). i could make it all the way. or at worst, at 15 minute top-up charge.

[*]difference: complete wash.

(2) 500-600mi one way trips. this is long road trip, essentially all day on the road.

[*]conventional car: 1-3 stops for gas (15 minutes). 1-2 additional stops for break/rest, one of which is extended for lunch. (5-40min)
[*]electric car: 3 - 5 stops of 25 minutes each. all rest and eating is coincident with stops.
[*]difference: net surplus of 1-2 hours. but spread out over the context of an all-day drive, it's really nothing. portland to san francisco, you could theoretically make a beeline and stop only for gas... but im not racing against the clock.


for trip #1, even if you make it a round trip, its another 25 minute stop. in no actual real life circumstance has it been onerous. i dont foresee a circumstance where it becomes burdensome, like driving 3 hours, for a 30 minute business meeting, then immediately driving another 3 hours for another business meeting. its not a thing in my life.


as far as the cost, in europe the tesla supercharger cost work out to be approx the same as fueling a 100hp diesel car. except you get access to 500hp+ instead. in the US with cheap fuel, its probably equivalent to fueling a 250hp car. if you blend in home charging, lifetime that number is closer to 200hp or less.
squirm
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Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

Use about 2kw for heating once cabin is warmed up. more if battery is being kept warm too. bjorn camped out in the snow with his 3.
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4nursebee
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Re: charging an EV

Post by 4nursebee »

Uniballer wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm My concern about an electric vehicle is different.

In November 2000 I was trapped on a major limited access highway during a surprise afternoon snow storm, less than 20 miles from my home in Western New York. A tractor-trailer had jack-knifed ahead of me and closed the road until it could be removed. By the time the truck was removed there was about 2 feet of snow on the road. There were hundreds (thousands?) of other people in the same boat. We got rolling at around 11AM the next morning.

I had 1/4 tank of gas when I left home. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes every hour to stay warm. I still had enough gas to make it off the highway and find a gas station. Will an electric vehicle in this circumstance be able to keep the passengers warm all night, and still have usable range? If not, then I would say that they are not real-world ready.
Because the situation you describe is real world?
Pale Blue Dot
02nz
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Re: charging an EV

Post by 02nz »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:37 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm
sambb wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:32 pm hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
A hybrid is certainly a great option. It would reduce pollution, a states goal of the OP.
But if you concern is reducing your carbon footprint, I would not by a 7 passenger vehicle unless absolutely necessary.

Whether EV is less polluting than ICE depends partially on how your electric is produced. I live in part of the country where the only difference is whether the pollution will be coming from the tailpipe or the smokestack. Driving a vehicle that gets over 50 mpg and keeping mileage driven down are the primary ways I stay green. That said, I do like my PHEV for the lack of engine noise on electric.
I don't have the exact figures at hand, but I recall (when I looked this up a few years ago) that even an EV that runs 100% on power from coal results in less CO2 emissions than a very efficient hybrid like the Prius. And power generation tends to put out other pollutants farther away from population centers.

Pure EVs are clearly the way of the future, but in the meantime, because of limited available battery capacity, hybrids and plug-in hybrids have a bigger impact in reducing CO2 emissions. This because a PHEV can be used in EV mode for most of your mileage (about 95% of the miles covered in my Chevy Volt has been electric), while using much less battery, which remains a scarce "resource" at the moment.
flyingaway
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Re: charging an EV

Post by flyingaway »

02nz wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:42 pm
Katietsu wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:37 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm
sambb wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:32 pm hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
A hybrid is certainly a great option. It would reduce pollution, a states goal of the OP.
But if you concern is reducing your carbon footprint, I would not by a 7 passenger vehicle unless absolutely necessary.

Whether EV is less polluting than ICE depends partially on how your electric is produced. I live in part of the country where the only difference is whether the pollution will be coming from the tailpipe or the smokestack. Driving a vehicle that gets over 50 mpg and keeping mileage driven down are the primary ways I stay green. That said, I do like my PHEV for the lack of engine noise on electric.
I don't have the exact figures at hand, but I recall (when I looked this up a few years ago) that even an EV that runs 100% on power from coal results in less CO2 emissions than a very efficient hybrid like the Prius. And power generation tends to put out other pollutants farther away from population centers.

Pure EVs are clearly the way of the future, but in the meantime, because of limited available battery capacity, hybrids and plug-in hybrids have a bigger impact in reducing CO2 emissions. This because a PHEV can be used in EV mode for most of your mileage (about 95% of the miles covered in my Chevy Volt has been electric), while using much less battery, which remains a scarce "resource" at the moment.
For the reducing pollution part, I think it is just a hype. Driving a Tesla is more about status than saving the planet. I don't believe manufacturing a Tesla is more green than manufacturing a gas car. I was thinking driving an electric car would be supposed to be for the poor people because they could not afford gas. I guess that I was totally wrong.
02nz
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Re: charging an EV

Post by 02nz »

flyingaway wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:52 am
02nz wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:42 pm
Katietsu wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:37 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm
sambb wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:32 pm hybrid. look at camry or highlander. accomplishes what you need to accomplish
A hybrid is certainly a great option. It would reduce pollution, a states goal of the OP.
But if you concern is reducing your carbon footprint, I would not by a 7 passenger vehicle unless absolutely necessary.

Whether EV is less polluting than ICE depends partially on how your electric is produced. I live in part of the country where the only difference is whether the pollution will be coming from the tailpipe or the smokestack. Driving a vehicle that gets over 50 mpg and keeping mileage driven down are the primary ways I stay green. That said, I do like my PHEV for the lack of engine noise on electric.
I don't have the exact figures at hand, but I recall (when I looked this up a few years ago) that even an EV that runs 100% on power from coal results in less CO2 emissions than a very efficient hybrid like the Prius. And power generation tends to put out other pollutants farther away from population centers.

Pure EVs are clearly the way of the future, but in the meantime, because of limited available battery capacity, hybrids and plug-in hybrids have a bigger impact in reducing CO2 emissions. This because a PHEV can be used in EV mode for most of your mileage (about 95% of the miles covered in my Chevy Volt has been electric), while using much less battery, which remains a scarce "resource" at the moment.
For the reducing pollution part, I think it is just a hype. Driving a Tesla is more about status than saving the planet. I don't believe manufacturing a Tesla is more green than manufacturing a gas car. I was thinking driving an electric car would be supposed to be for the poor people because they could not afford gas. I guess that I was totally wrong.
Manufacturing a Tesla is probably less "green" than manufacturing a gas car. The environmental benefit comes when the car is OPERATED, because it puts out no tailpipe emissions. Of course generating the electricity that powers an EV still causes CO2 and other emissions, but 1) that's still far cleaner and more efficient (about 3-4 times as efficient) more than an ICE car; and 2) power generation is becoming greener over time, so an EV is also in a sense becoming greener over its lifecycle.

As for status - well people buy Tesla for all sorts of reasons. But the environmental benefits of ICE vs EV/PHEV/hybrid are not a matter of opinion, regardless of individual decisions.
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AerialWombat
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Re: charging an EV

Post by AerialWombat »

It is not uncommon for me to take 2,500 mile, 3-day road trips on a whim, driving 400+ miles between stops. That lifestyle is utterly incompatible with current electric vehicles. Plus, I’ve yet to see an EV that looks even remotely capable of being slept in. Thus, I do not anticipate ever owning an EV.

Normal people don’t drive like me. For normals, an EV is a perfect solution to their daily driving needs and occasional short road trips.
fasteddie911
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Re: charging an EV

Post by fasteddie911 »

02nz wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:42 pm I don't have the exact figures at hand, but I recall (when I looked this up a few years ago) that even an EV that runs 100% on power from coal results in less CO2 emissions than a very efficient hybrid like the Prius. And power generation tends to put out other pollutants farther away from population centers.

Pure EVs are clearly the way of the future, but in the meantime, because of limited available battery capacity, hybrids and plug-in hybrids have a bigger impact in reducing CO2 emissions. This because a PHEV can be used in EV mode for most of your mileage (about 95% of the miles covered in my Chevy Volt has been electric), while using much less battery, which remains a scarce "resource" at the moment.
https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electr ... sions.html

The above website would suggest otherwise. Take WV running 91% on coal, it's cleaner to drive a hybrid than EV. Add to that the carbon/environmental impact of battery production and an EV isn't so "clean" anymore, a hybrid or PHEV can be very competitive in that regard. I think PHEVs don't get enough credit but it may actually be the "cleanest" car out there. Low emissions from battery production and EV mode could probably handle a majority of people's driving.
neilpilot
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Re: charging an EV

Post by neilpilot »

It appears that people have a very simplistic way of comparing emissions of autos operating via EV vs ICE. They equate their EV emissions to that of electrical generation (EV side), and ICE to tailpipe emissions of post-environmental controlled emissions.

When comparing EV vs ICE, consider the ICE emissions contributed from the gasoline and ethanol refining processes. Also the emissions from fuel blending, storage and distribution of gasoline. This contribution is not insignificant.
squirm
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Re: charging an EV

Post by squirm »

My EV charges and I can see via the meters the electricity produced is going straight into the car batteries.
ballons
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Re: charging an EV

Post by ballons »

BuckyBadger wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:05 pm An electric engine had about 20 moving parts. An ICE engine has about 2,000. EVs should last considerably longer with significantly less maintenance aside from tires and brakes pads.
Except for that whole expensive battery replacement thing.
MathWizard
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Re: charging an EV

Post by MathWizard »

Tenesmus83 wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm I like the idea of reducing pollution so I'm looking at buying an electric vehicle. My main concern is that the small number of charging
stations which would limit long-distance trips. Also, having to wait more than 20 min for a full charge is just too much time.
Anyone have similar hesitation?
Yes, same hesitation.

Within the decade we should have 500 mile range EVs.
The problem will be that it will take forever to charge them.

The other option is if it is possible to swap batteries. This is more complicated than you might think, because
of the High Voltage flash hazard. I'm not sure there is a good solution to that.

I bought a hybrid because of my hesitation. I had considered a Chevy Volt, but they are discontinued, and probably
would not have been comfortable for my old frame on long trips.

Without at least a 220V charging station, charging at home takes a long time, and if you can get to a charging station
and are willing to wait, how long does this add to your trip? Charging stations will need to be as ubiquitous as gas stations
and be able to handle customers as fast as a regular fillup does.

I considered a Tesla model 3, but with the features I wanted, long range, self-driving features,
it was $60K and it was a pre-order.
emoore
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Re: charging an EV

Post by emoore »

Lots of EV misconceptions here.

Like mentioned earlier Tesla has by far the best charging network in the US right now. That will probably get challenged in the next 5 years with electrify america and some oil companies getting into the charging station market to offset losses from oil.

As for stopping for 20 plus minutes to fully charge, you have to change your driving habit. Instead of driving to empty and the fill up 100% like ICE, you would drive to 10-20% and charge up to 80% which is the fastest. Getting from 80 to 100% takes a long time. So assuming you stop every 3-4 hours, that's ~250 miles, then stopping for 20 minutes probably is a good idea anyway (bathroom breaks, food, stretch, etc). There are some (very few) that want to be able to fill up and go in 5 minutes and then drive another 300 miles. That's an extreme case that you can't really do right now with an EV but there will be 500+ mile EVs in a few years time.

Overall I would say just get an EV and not worry about it. Like said earlier, if necessary rent an ICE and use that until the charging network matures. And your EV will have less and less of an environmental impact as the grid gets cleaner, ICE environment impacts are fixed for the life of the car.
BuckyBadger
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Re: charging an EV

Post by BuckyBadger »

ballons wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:18 pm
BuckyBadger wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:05 pm An electric engine had about 20 moving parts. An ICE engine has about 2,000. EVs should last considerably longer with significantly less maintenance aside from tires and brakes pads.
Except for that whole expensive battery replacement thing.
That's just a lazy straw man argument.

Batteries don't routinely require replacement and technology continues improving. There is an initial degradation that then levels out and new battery technology is reducing even that.

Surely you could work a little harder to find a better dig at EVs?
BuckyBadger
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Re: charging an EV

Post by BuckyBadger »

emoore wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:18 pm Lots of EV misconceptions here.
Perhaps some misconceptions.

Lots of intentional ignorance, too.
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