Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

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Brandon4454
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Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Brandon4454 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:15 pm

I am 34 and have 120k in assets and another 60k in equity in two houses. I just started maxing out a 401k and a Roth IRA. After all bills are paid I have about $500 left at the end of the month to invest in a taxable account. I'm planning to retire with a full pension at 59. Some things I want to happen is have the money to buy my next car in cash which will probably be another 7 years from now. I about have this much money in my brokerage.

With all that said I would like to buy about 2-4 acres in Dahlonega, GA to build a house when I retire which will be 40-60k. I just don't know when I should do this. I could get a loan for the money but don't want to do that. If I sell my other house I could buy the land outright with the equity. If I keep on my current path I could probably buy it in 7 years, but I'm afraid this will be too long. I could lower my retirement contribution, and buy it much sooner.

I'm just afraid land values are gonna go up in the area too much if I wait too long. I don't have a huge salary but I tend to save around 50% of it. My girlfriend also would like to put some money into it as she would live there to, but shes concentrated on paying off student loans for the next couple of years.

dukeblue219
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by dukeblue219 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:20 pm

Honestly you're 34; buying land to maybe build a house when you're 74 is not worth it. If you'll enjoy the land now for recreation, great, but so much will change in your life in 40 years.

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Brandon4454
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Brandon4454 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 pm

dukeblue219 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:20 pm
Honestly you're 34; buying land to maybe build a house when you're 74 is not worth it. If you'll enjoy the land now for recreation, great, but so much will change in your life in 40 years.
I'm planning on retiring in 25 years at the latest. This land is near my hometown but 16 hours away driving from where I currently live.

sailaway
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by sailaway » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:24 pm

I would not buy land that you might want to do something with 25 years from now. It is possible that your priorities change over that period of time.

It is unlikely that the land will increase in value faster than a balanced portfolio, especially when you consider the carrying costs if you purchase the land now. My area is appreciating very quickly over the last few years, but still nothing close to what my investments returned over the same time period.

stan1
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by stan1 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:26 pm

Personally I think 25 years is a long time and a lot could change between now and then. I would not buy so far ahead of need. There are innumerable reasons why you might want to live somewhere else (family, medical, lifestyle, etc).

If you want to speculate on appreciation of vacant land then I'd be asking a different set of questions.

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Brandon4454
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Brandon4454 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:29 pm

sailaway wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:24 pm
I would not buy land that you might want to do something with 25 years from now. It is possible that your priorities change over that period of time.

It is unlikely that the land will increase in value faster than a balanced portfolio, especially when you consider the carrying costs if you purchase the land now. My area is appreciating very quickly over the last few years, but still nothing close to what my investments returned over the same time period.
The taxes on the land would only be about $400 a year. That should be my only cost until I build on it, but you may be right about shifting priorities.

DarkHelmetII
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by DarkHelmetII » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:31 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:29 pm
sailaway wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:24 pm
I would not buy land that you might want to do something with 25 years from now. It is possible that your priorities change over that period of time.

It is unlikely that the land will increase in value faster than a balanced portfolio, especially when you consider the carrying costs if you purchase the land now. My area is appreciating very quickly over the last few years, but still nothing close to what my investments returned over the same time period.
The taxes on the land would only be about $400 a year. That should be my only cost until I build on it, but you may be right about shifting priorities.
I might propose that opportunity cost is another cost

tibbitts
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by tibbitts » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:40 pm

Well somebody has to say it: buying any property with a girlfriend is a terrible idea.

You are way early on this. You have no idea where you'll want to live, much less where your significant other will want to live, when you retire in a quarter of a century. Things like grandchildren can come along and change your plans.

bighatnohorse
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by bighatnohorse » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:04 pm

If you buy land on which to build, the local authorities consider you a developer.
Developers are often viewed as criminals and destroyers of the land. Things could change in the next decade.
That said,
if you buy land, get the permits and start the building process. Things can change and rules and regulations and zoning can change.
Raw land can be risky business.

ballons
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by ballons » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:23 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:15 pm
My girlfriend also would like to put some money into it as she would live there to, but shes concentrated on paying off student loans for the next couple of years.
25 years is a long time for things to change in not the direction you plan.

000
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by 000 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:26 pm

I agree with others. If you're not planning to move there forthwith and the land produces no cash flow, it is hard to justify purchasing it.

dukeblue219
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by dukeblue219 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:37 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 pm
dukeblue219 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:20 pm
Honestly you're 34; buying land to maybe build a house when you're 74 is not worth it. If you'll enjoy the land now for recreation, great, but so much will change in your life in 40 years.
I'm planning on retiring in 25 years at the latest. This land is near my hometown but 16 hours away driving from where I currently live.
I misread something in your post as forty years from now. Apologies on that part. In any case (and I'm 34 as well for what it's worth) I think it's an awfully risky idea to tie up that much wealth in property you won't use, and plan to share ownership with your gf. Can't tell you what to do, but I personally wouldnt consider it.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:41 pm

Why not wait and buy the land closer to the time you plan to retire and build on it? Land in a place like Dahlonega, GA is not likely to increase in price faster than inflation.

fundseeker
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by fundseeker » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:40 pm

For some reason the term money pit comes to mind, and land value can go down as well as up. You have way too much life ahead of you in the next 25 years to have a few acres hanging around your neck complicating life, especially if you go into a real estate deal with a girlfriend. So, stay focused, and don't consider stopping your 401k contribution for anything. Good luck!

Pu239
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Pu239 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:57 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:29 pm


The taxes on the land would only be about $400 a year. That should be my only cost until I build on it, but you may be right about shifting priorities.
Being in Dahlonega, any chance of gold on the property?
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot

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JonnyDVM
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by JonnyDVM » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:35 am

Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 pm
dukeblue219 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:20 pm
Honestly you're 34; buying land to maybe build a house when you're 74 is not worth it. If you'll enjoy the land now for recreation, great, but so much will change in your life in 40 years.
I'm planning on retiring in 25 years at the latest. This land is near my hometown but 16 hours away driving from where I currently live.
This is not a good idea. Your tastes and feelings on where you want to retire will probably change vastly in 25 years. I doubt land there will appreciate faster than money invested in the stock market would. So you can invest and buy land there in 25 years of you still want it. If you think land there is an amazing investment and will blow market returns away....agree to disagree. Land prices in North Georgia feel strangely inflated.
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns

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galawdawg
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by galawdawg » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:39 am

Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:15 pm
I am 34 and have 120k in assets and another 60k in equity in two houses. I just started maxing out a 401k and a Roth IRA. After all bills are paid I have about $500 left at the end of the month to invest in a taxable account. I'm planning to retire with a full pension at 59. Some things I want to happen is have the money to buy my next car in cash which will probably be another 7 years from now. I about have this much money in my brokerage.

With all that said I would like to buy about 2-4 acres in Dahlonega, GA to build a house when I retire which will be 40-60k. I just don't know when I should do this. I could get a loan for the money but don't want to do that. If I sell my other house I could buy the land outright with the equity. If I keep on my current path I could probably buy it in 7 years, but I'm afraid this will be too long. I could lower my retirement contribution, and buy it much sooner.

I'm just afraid land values are gonna go up in the area too much if I wait too long. I don't have a huge salary but I tend to save around 50% of it. My girlfriend also would like to put some money into it as she would live there to, but shes concentrated on paying off student loans for the next couple of years.
A couple of observations from someone who lives pretty close to the Dahlonega area....

1. Do you have a parcel in mind to purchase? Right now land values are running about $10,000/acre for 2-10 acre parcels. For that price per acre, I'm assuming you are looking at something on a large creek or river.

2. Realize that along with the possible increase of land values comes more and more development from folks moving north up 400. While it is still a great area, the character is certainly changing with the influx of new folks. The Dahlonega that you retire to may not at all resemble the Dahlonega you grew up near. In twenty-five years, you may need to be closer to Blue Ridge to find the type of area you prefer. And the area surrounding the parcel of land you purchase now may change, even if the overall community doesn't. What if the parcel you purchase ends up being near a landfill, an industrial park or surrounded by chicken houses?

3. Also, as land values increase in the future, so will your salary and thus your buying power. So when you are close to retirement, the land may then cost twice what it is today per acre, but your annual income may be three times what it is today. Also, if you are moving there for retirement, you can use the equity in your primary residence to purchase land and build your retirement home.

4. Your retirement plans may change. Assuming now that you will have a full pension in twenty-five years to enable you to retire may not be the wisest approach. Considering what has happened in the world of pensions over the past twenty-five years, planning on having one twenty-five years from now is risky. Pension plans can and will change. That also assumes that you remain at your same employer. If you change jobs or are laid off or terminated, that is the end of the full pension plan for you. In that case, will you still retire at 59 or might you need to work another five years after that? I say that to caution you about "locking in" retirement plans now that may not occur as planned.

5. DO NOT purchase real estate with a girlfriend, particularly if there is no plan to live there for decades. Bad idea.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

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Watty
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Watty » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:51 am

I know of a situation where someone bought land to build their retirement home on where they held it for several decades then when they were ready to build new restrictions were put in and they could not build on it. They basically ended up with a very expensive campsite.

In another situation I heard of someone that was in a rural area that was having difficulty in getting a permit to have a new driveway connect to a state highway. Nearby neighbors had old driveways that did that but the rules had changed and they were not allowing new driveways to connect to the state highway because it was fairly busy. I never heard how that turned out.

When raw land is purchased the sale is often contingent on being able to get all the needed permits to build the house. Getting the permits takes time and money so even if you find a nice piece of property you cannot even be sure that it would be buildable today until you get all the needed permits. Those would only be good for a limited time so even if you do that now the permits would expire long before you would be ready to build and the rules may have changed by then.

Undeveloped land can also be very difficult to sell if your plans change.

wolfeman
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by wolfeman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:25 am

Watty wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:51 am
I know of a situation where someone bought land to build their retirement home on where they held it for several decades then when they were ready to build new restrictions were put in and they could not build on it. They basically ended up with a very expensive campsite.

In another situation I heard of someone that was in a rural area that was having difficulty in getting a permit to have a new driveway connect to a state highway. Nearby neighbors had old driveways that did that but the rules had changed and they were not allowing new driveways to connect to the state highway because it was fairly busy. I never heard how that turned out.

When raw land is purchased the sale is often contingent on being able to get all the needed permits to build the house. Getting the permits takes time and money so even if you find a nice piece of property you cannot even be sure that it would be buildable today until you get all the needed permits. Those would only be good for a limited time so even if you do that now the permits would expire long before you would be ready to build and the rules may have changed by then.

Undeveloped land can also be very difficult to sell if your plans change.
I agree with this. I purchased vacant land, thinking I would build a new home on it within the next "few years" once I had the land paid off and a decent amount saved up for the house. The land was in the country, so I made sure to get a septic permit before I closed on the land. Getting that permit was no easy task, as it required soil samples/borings to be taken and specific plans/drawings to be submitted to the county. Those permits were only good for so long. I was worried that things could change down the road, and different rules could be implemented that would not allow me to get a septic permit (making the land basically worthless for building a home on). I would have also needed a building permit and a driveway permit to connect to the county road. While I owned the land two different municipalities "fought" over the desires to annex the area, which means an entirely new set of building rules would apply.

In the end, I decided to not even build on the lot as I decided the cost to build a new home was not worth the expense. As mentioned above, I agree that a vacant lot is harder to sell than an existing home. There are fewer interested buyers, it's harder to get a loan, etc.

So, unless you get some enjoyment out of the land now, I would not recommend purchasing until you are ready to build. 25 years is a long time, and you may not want to live in the area by then, the area may be significantly different, building rules may change, etc.

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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by cricket49 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:51 am

Agree with other comments. Many things can and will happen over the years.

We bought 10 acres when I was 34 to build a house for retirement in the future. Who knew a business opportunity would come up and we would move to another city. We sold the land.

Eight years ago we bought 9 acres in the area where we would eventually retire. It seemed like a perfect property when we were younger. When we retired two years ago things were different. The area did not have many good qualified builders and the wait list was over a year for a good one. Also the property was very isolated down a gravel hidden road and over 40 minutes to a hospital. We knew even an ambulance would never find the house. Lastly, we realized after retirement we did not want to be married to a huge yard. We wanted to travel and play. We sold the land two months ago.

Life happens. Plans change.
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:18 am

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (land).
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Hockey10 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:34 am

Don't buy. I did this in North Carolina when I was in my 20s. It was one of the dumbest financial mistakes in my life.

A fast talking real estate sales guy convinced me to buy a vacant lot in a retirement community as an investment. He had all kinds of fancy articles that showed how vacant land in NC was going to increase in value faster than any other kind of investment. It was in a growing retirement community where new houses were being built. He said the street I was buying on would be full of houses in a few years. I just looked at the Google Maps view of the street. There are 3 houses and 12 vacant lots. This is 36 years later. I am very happy that I sold it in the 1990s for a loss.

squirm
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by squirm » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:29 am

Wait you'll change your mind where you want to retire or consider it an investment.

THY4373
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by THY4373 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:44 am

I'll just echo the others here about 20-25 years is an eternity for changing your mind and/or the situation changing. About 20 years ago I was close to your age and dating my future ex-spouse (we were married for 16 years). I was totally convinced I knew exactly how my life would go. In some respects I was spot on and in others completely wrong. My plans for retirement now are mostly different than they were 20 years ago or even seven years ago.

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Brandon4454
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Brandon4454 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:15 pm

Pu239 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:57 pm
Brandon4454 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:29 pm


The taxes on the land would only be about $400 a year. That should be my only cost until I build on it, but you may be right about shifting priorities.
Being in Dahlonega, any chance of gold on the property?
Probably not, but its possible. I think all the gold in Dahlonega was mined decades ago.

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Brandon4454
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Brandon4454 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:25 pm

Hockey10 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:34 am
Don't buy. I did this in North Carolina when I was in my 20s. It was one of the dumbest financial mistakes in my life.

A fast talking real estate sales guy convinced me to buy a vacant lot in a retirement community as an investment. He had all kinds of fancy articles that showed how vacant land in NC was going to increase in value faster than any other kind of investment. It was in a growing retirement community where new houses were being built. He said the street I was buying on would be full of houses in a few years. I just looked at the Google Maps view of the street. There are 3 houses and 12 vacant lots. This is 36 years later. I am very happy that I sold it in the 1990s for a loss.
Thanks I've decided to put it off for at least another 15 years. In 12 years according to my savings rate I should be able to retire. I grew up in the area and got my bachelor's there and I have watched the prices do nothing but go straight up in the last ten years. I think roughly most houses have doubled. Index funds can just be very boring. I saw someone the other day on here asking about places to retire in Northeast Georgia which got me thinking about it. I think once Florida fills up the rest of the southeast will as well near the mountains and lakes.

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Brandon4454
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Brandon4454 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:27 pm

cricket49 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:51 am
Agree with other comments. Many things can and will happen over the years.

We bought 10 acres when I was 34 to build a house for retirement in the future. Who knew a business opportunity would come up and we would move to another city. We sold the land.

Eight years ago we bought 9 acres in the area where we would eventually retire. It seemed like a perfect property when we were younger. When we retired two years ago things were different. The area did not have many good qualified builders and the wait list was over a year for a good one. Also the property was very isolated down a gravel hidden road and over 40 minutes to a hospital. We knew even an ambulance would never find the house. Lastly, we realized after retirement we did not want to be married to a huge yard. We wanted to travel and play. We sold the land two months ago.

Life happens. Plans change.
Thanks for your comment.

MishkaWorries
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by MishkaWorries » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:53 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:25 pm
Hockey10 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:34 am
Don't buy. I did this in North Carolina when I was in my 20s. It was one of the dumbest financial mistakes in my life.

A fast talking real estate sales guy convinced me to buy a vacant lot in a retirement community as an investment. He had all kinds of fancy articles that showed how vacant land in NC was going to increase in value faster than any other kind of investment. It was in a growing retirement community where new houses were being built. He said the street I was buying on would be full of houses in a few years. I just looked at the Google Maps view of the street. There are 3 houses and 12 vacant lots. This is 36 years later. I am very happy that I sold it in the 1990s for a loss.
Thanks I've decided to put it off for at least another 15 years. In 12 years according to my savings rate I should be able to retire. I grew up in the area and got my bachelor's there and I have watched the prices do nothing but go straight up in the last ten years. I think roughly most houses have doubled. Index funds can just be very boring. I saw someone the other day on here asking about places to retire in Northeast Georgia which got me thinking about it. I think once Florida fills up the rest of the southeast will as well near the mountains and lakes.
I think waiting is a good idea.

I wonder what will happen to house and land prices after the baby-boomers pass on. There could be deflationary pressures on housing with excess inventory.
We plan. G-d laughs.

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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by finite_difference » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:14 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:25 pm
Hockey10 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:34 am
Don't buy. I did this in North Carolina when I was in my 20s. It was one of the dumbest financial mistakes in my life.

A fast talking real estate sales guy convinced me to buy a vacant lot in a retirement community as an investment. He had all kinds of fancy articles that showed how vacant land in NC was going to increase in value faster than any other kind of investment. It was in a growing retirement community where new houses were being built. He said the street I was buying on would be full of houses in a few years. I just looked at the Google Maps view of the street. There are 3 houses and 12 vacant lots. This is 36 years later. I am very happy that I sold it in the 1990s for a loss.
Thanks I've decided to put it off for at least another 15 years. In 12 years according to my savings rate I should be able to retire. I grew up in the area and got my bachelor's there and I have watched the prices do nothing but go straight up in the last ten years. I think roughly most houses have doubled. Index funds can just be very boring. I saw someone the other day on here asking about places to retire in Northeast Georgia which got me thinking about it. I think once Florida fills up the rest of the southeast will as well near the mountains and lakes.
Houses there may have doubled, but stocks have more than doubled, are 100% liquid, and thousands of times more diversified.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

Pu239
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Re: Land in Dahlonega, Georgia

Post by Pu239 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:20 pm

Brandon4454 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:15 pm


Probably not, but its possible. I think all the gold in Dahlonega was mined decades ago.
If any abandoned underground mines are nearby, there might be a chance of old workings beneath a property. Even if all the gold has been extracted, land subsidence from collapse of shallow workings might pose a threat. Due diligence is required whenever considering a land purchase near old mines, factories, etc.
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot

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