Car Insurance - Liability or more?

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Superleaf444
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Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 am

Heyo,

I recently bought a used 2012 Prius for $5,000 from a private party. It has been years since I've owned a car, because public transit and city life, but coronavirus put a wrinkle in it.

Anyway, I was astonished to get such cheap car insurance after shopping around. I signed up for liability to get home, which came to $187 a year. After sleeping on it I was like, man that insurance is so low how much is full coverage. They gave me a quote of $444 for the year with a $1,000 deductible.

I feel like it is worth it, but it is def right on the line. I'm going by the rule of 10's, which states your premium shouldn't be more than 10% of your car or if your car is 10 years old. Legit, it is right on the brink. But, idk, it is not that much more to cover a significant amount.

Thoughts? Feelings? Anything?

conservativeinvestor
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by conservativeinvestor » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:08 am

It works out to about $21 a month extra for the full coverage with a $1000 deductible.

How upset would you be if you wrecked the car and had to pay $5000 out of pocket for a new car vs $1000 out of pocket but you have to continue to pay $21 a month extra for the amount of time you own the car.

I would base this decision on how often you drive and in what kinds of traffic conditions and how much money you have in your emergency fund. If you have a decent emergency fund and don't drive very often or drive in low amounts of traffic I would probably drop the full coverage.

My personal threshold for dropping full coverage is when the cars value reaches $3000.

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Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:31 am

conservativeinvestor wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:08 am
It works out to about $21 a month extra for the full coverage with a $1000 deductible.

How upset would you be if you wrecked the car and had to pay $5000 out of pocket for a new car vs $1000 out of pocket but you have to continue to pay $21 a month extra for the amount of time you own the car.

I would base this decision on how often you drive and in what kinds of traffic conditions and how much money you have in your emergency fund. If you have a decent emergency fund and don't drive very often or drive in low amounts of traffic I would probably drop the full coverage.

My personal threshold for dropping full coverage is when the cars value reaches $3000.

Yeah, I would be furious if the car was wrecked recently. Lol.

I don't drive often and I have a decent fund, but still up in the air, prolly because it is fairly cheap.

hnd
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by hnd » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:54 am

$5000 in value is when i bump down to liability. Is $5000 all the car is worth or did you get a deal? It may behoove you to look at comprehensive for a year or so.

I bought a $20k truck for $12k because it had a rebuilt title and through my research found no company to give me full coverage on it so i had to go liability which was nerve racking but basically thought to myself, i was willing to spend 20, i'll just put that 8k back into investments and be able to buy another one when the time comes.

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Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:02 am

hnd wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:54 am
$5000 in value is when i bump down to liability. Is $5000 all the car is worth or did you get a deal? It may behoove you to look at comprehensive for a year or so.

I bought a $20k truck for $12k because it had a rebuilt title and through my research found no company to give me full coverage on it so i had to go liability which was nerve racking but basically thought to myself, i was willing to spend 20, i'll just put that 8k back into investments and be able to buy another one when the time comes.
I would say I got an an aight' deal. It is closer to being worth around $5,400. Nothing compared to your deal. Also, like congrats on that.

armeliusc
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by armeliusc » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:22 am

Our personal rule is to only buy insurance for something that would be a financial catastrophe otherwise. There are the obvious ones: health, home, some umbrella, life term, and liability for driving. In the past the list of catastrophe would include a need for a full coverage with high enough deductible. More recently, not so, even when our car was 2 - 3 years old from new. It would certainly be very upsetting if we had to lose our car with, say ~$10-13K in value, but it wouldn't be a financial catastrophic. So even if using this rule, this is something you need to assess for yourself: would losing a $5000 car constitute a financial catastrophe for you? Note also that, if you are not at fault, there would be some relief from the other insurance company (hopefully, but this also brings up a point that you'd need an non/under-insured insurance).

Rather than full coverage, I'd suggest increasing the liability coverage, to something like $100/300k. This is usually fairly inexpensive. Also take a look at what you have for the underinsured coverage.
Last edited by armeliusc on Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dwickenh
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by dwickenh » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:24 am

Superleaf444 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 am
Heyo,

I recently bought a used 2012 Prius for $5,000 from a private party. It has been years since I've owned a car, because public transit and city life, but coronavirus put a wrinkle in it.

Anyway, I was astonished to get such cheap car insurance after shopping around. I signed up for liability to get home, which came to $187 a year. After sleeping on it I was like, man that insurance is so low how much is full coverage. They gave me a quote of $444 for the year with a $1,000 deductible.

I feel like it is worth it, but it is def right on the line. I'm going by the rule of 10's, which states your premium shouldn't be more than 10% of your car or if your car is 10 years old. Legit, it is right on the brink. But, idk, it is not that much more to cover a significant amount.

Thoughts? Feelings? Anything?
Having been a Collision shop owner and Insurance company claims rep, I would advise you that it won't take a lot of impact to total
that vehicle due to it's reduced value and repair costs associated with Hybrids. So the realization of a total loss claim is a fairly
high percentage occurrence on that vehicle. That may help you with your decision. Maybe carry full coverage for a year or two,
and then drop back to liability after that.

Good luck,

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

hnd
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by hnd » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:49 am

Superleaf444 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:02 am
hnd wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:54 am
$5000 in value is when i bump down to liability. Is $5000 all the car is worth or did you get a deal? It may behoove you to look at comprehensive for a year or so.

I bought a $20k truck for $12k because it had a rebuilt title and through my research found no company to give me full coverage on it so i had to go liability which was nerve racking but basically thought to myself, i was willing to spend 20, i'll just put that 8k back into investments and be able to buy another one when the time comes.
I would say I got an an aight' deal. It is closer to being worth around $5,400. Nothing compared to your deal. Also, like congrats on that.
its been 2 years and so far so good. My buddy only buys rear ended rebuilt vehicles and has for years. When I say its worth 20k, i mean if it didn't have a rebuilt title. it was probably actually worth 14-15.

Outer Marker
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Outer Marker » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:58 pm

I would save your money and bank the premium savings. I don't believe in insuring small losses that I can easily absorb. Not sure what your overall financial situation is, but does not sound like a $4,000 loss would bankrupt you or leave you without transport. Insurance is always calculated based on the probabilities to come out to the issuer's benefit. That's how it works. While I can afford to take $5,000 loss on my car, I cant afford a $1M loss if my house burns down. So, I pay for that insurance, even though I know the probabilities work to the insurance company's benefit. Consider too that if you file a claim for small loss, e.g. $1,500 worth of damage with $1,000 deductable, its probably to your benefit to pay the small loss out of pocket to keep your premiums from going up. Finally, if you have an accident serious enough to total the vehicle, you could be dead, at which point you don't care.

Katietsu
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Katietsu » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:17 pm

I would go back and review your current coverage. Maybe it is fine and you are in a very low cost area, a very low cost demographic and you have low mileage discounts. Maybe they gave you a great one year rate but will raise it later. But, that is very low, in my experience, particularly for someone who has not had a policy at all for awhile. I wonder if you only have something like the state minimum coverage. Carrying only the state minimum is a bad idea for most people who have enough of a net worth/income or project having income/wealth in the future to be on this website.

hayhayday
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by hayhayday » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:05 pm

The salvage value on your vehicle is likey around 1-2k unless it were to catch fire or something coupled with the 1k ded the net coverage is very small. The increase in your rates after a claim could easily surpass the payout. I would consider liability only

FarmWife
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by FarmWife » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:29 pm

We bought our 16 yr old a $5000 truck for a school vehicle. It has liability only because we could cashflow any replacement/repair on it and teenage boy insurance is already high enough. He was the victim in a small fender bender a year later and it was totalled. Other party's insurance covered it and we were made whole. We fixed enough to keep it safely driveable and have a nearly free vehicle as a result.

Outer Marker
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Outer Marker » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:31 pm

hayhayday wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:05 pm
The salvage value on your vehicle is likey around 1-2k unless it were to catch fire or something coupled with the 1k ded the net coverage is very small. The increase in your rates after a claim could easily surpass the payout. I would consider liability only
+1. Well put.

iamblessed
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by iamblessed » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm

My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?

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dwickenh
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by dwickenh » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:38 am

hayhayday wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:05 pm
The salvage value on your vehicle is likey around 1-2k unless it were to catch fire or something coupled with the 1k ded the net coverage is very small. The increase in your rates after a claim could easily surpass the payout. I would consider liability only
Good luck selling it yourself for 1-2K salvage. An insurance company may get that amount through contract or auction, but an individual
will be hard pressed to recover more than 200-500 on the salvage. Most of that will be eaten up by towing and storage on a totaled vehicle.
(I handled total loss claims for a major Insurance company) He may still be fine with liability only, but I wouldn't count on the salvage value
changing the equation.

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

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jeffyscott
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:14 am

I would not keep that coverage on a $5000 car. But, for purely psychological reasons, it's possible that I might decide to take it for maybe the first 6 months after having just bought a used car.

Also maybe the lack of recent driving experience could be a reason to take it temporarily?
Superleaf444 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 am
It has been years since I've owned a car, because public transit and city life, but coronavirus put a wrinkle in it.
I think that 10% rule was invented by insurance agents/companies to convince customer to over insure. My collision/comp comes to $164 per year on a 1 year old car, worth about $24K.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

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jeffyscott
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:18 am

Outer Marker wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:58 pm
Consider too that if you file a claim for small loss, e.g. $1,500 worth of damage with $1,000 deductable, its probably to your benefit to pay the small loss out of pocket to keep your premiums from going up.
The other option there, if the car remains drive-able, would be to pocket the money, drop the coverage, and drive the car with a dent or whatever.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

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gr7070
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by gr7070 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:23 am

If you can write a check for $5k without significantly impacting your cash reserves self-insure.

Ignore the "pain" involved; would it materially impact you?

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Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:33 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:14 am
I would not keep that coverage on a $5000 car. But, for purely psychological reasons, it's possible that I might decide to take it for maybe the first 6 months after having just bought a used car.

Also maybe the lack of recent driving experience could be a reason to take it temporarily?
Superleaf444 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 am
It has been years since I've owned a car, because public transit and city life, but coronavirus put a wrinkle in it.
I think that 10% rule was invented by insurance agents/companies to convince customer to over insure. My collision/comp comes to $164 per year on a 1 year old car, worth about $24K.
Oh, that isn't how I consumed the 10% rule. With your plan, I read it as if you car is worth $1,640 or 10 years old then you should drop the coverage. Not that you should increase your coverage to 10% of the vehicle.

Frugalbear
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Frugalbear » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:39 am

It is a $5000 car...liability only imo!

Just because insurance is cheap, doesnt mean you need all the bells and whistles. It is kind of like buying things because its a good deal-bad approach.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:44 am

Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:33 am
jeffyscott wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:14 am
I would not keep that coverage on a $5000 car. But, for purely psychological reasons, it's possible that I might decide to take it for maybe the first 6 months after having just bought a used car.

Also maybe the lack of recent driving experience could be a reason to take it temporarily?
Superleaf444 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 am
It has been years since I've owned a car, because public transit and city life, but coronavirus put a wrinkle in it.
I think that 10% rule was invented by insurance agents/companies to convince customer to over insure. My collision/comp comes to $164 per year on a 1 year old car, worth about $24K.
Oh, that isn't how I consumed the 10% rule. With your plan, I read it as if you car is worth $1,640 or 10 years old then you should drop the coverage. Not that you should increase your coverage to 10% of the vehicle.
Oh, I know, but what I meant and did not state is there is no way I'd pay for coll/comp on a $1600 car or a $2600 car (if you consider the $1000 deductible).
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

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Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 am

iamblessed wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm
My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?
Egad! Yeah, I have liberty mutual, but from my experience insurance companies tend to have different rates regionally.

Geico was good in the midwest for me, travelers in new york and liberty mutual in new england. I think I used allstate in the south.

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gr7070
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by gr7070 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:12 am

Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 am
iamblessed wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm
My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?
Egad! Yeah, I have liberty mutual, but from my experience insurance companies tend to have different rates regionally.

Geico was good in the midwest for me, travelers in new york and liberty mutual in new england. I think I used allstate in the south.
I don't think they were referring to your liability premium being low. Well, they were; but they were really suggesting your coverage may be too low.

So, what is your liability limits? That's the most important aspect of your auto insurance policy.

Topic Author
Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:24 am

gr7070 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:12 am
Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 am
iamblessed wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm
My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?
Egad! Yeah, I have liberty mutual, but from my experience insurance companies tend to have different rates regionally.

Geico was good in the midwest for me, travelers in new york and liberty mutual in new england. I think I used allstate in the south.
I don't think they were referring to your liability premium being low. Well, they were; but they were really suggesting your coverage may be too low.

So, what is your liability limits? That's the most important aspect of your auto insurance policy.
Oh.
250/500/100
+
uninsured motorist 250/500

Monsterflockster
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Monsterflockster » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:26 am

Bogleheads: where you see threads asking where to invest their millions while driving salvaged cars. Funny place. 🤣

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jeffyscott
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:05 am

Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:24 am
gr7070 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:12 am
Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 am
iamblessed wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm
My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?
Egad! Yeah, I have liberty mutual, but from my experience insurance companies tend to have different rates regionally.

Geico was good in the midwest for me, travelers in new york and liberty mutual in new england. I think I used allstate in the south.
I don't think they were referring to your liability premium being low. Well, they were; but they were really suggesting your coverage may be too low.

So, what is your liability limits? That's the most important aspect of your auto insurance policy.
Oh.
250/500/100
+
uninsured motorist 250/500
And your $187 is for 12 mo.? That is super cheap, we have low rates in our area, but with similar liability and UIM/UM levels ($500K but no separate per person limit) our cost is $332 per year.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

Topic Author
Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:14 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:05 am
Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:24 am
gr7070 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:12 am
Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 am
iamblessed wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm
My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?
Egad! Yeah, I have liberty mutual, but from my experience insurance companies tend to have different rates regionally.

Geico was good in the midwest for me, travelers in new york and liberty mutual in new england. I think I used allstate in the south.
I don't think they were referring to your liability premium being low. Well, they were; but they were really suggesting your coverage may be too low.

So, what is your liability limits? That's the most important aspect of your auto insurance policy.
Oh.
250/500/100
+
uninsured motorist 250/500
And your $187 is for 12 mo.? That is super cheap, we have low rates in our area, but with similar liability and UIM/UM levels ($500K but no separate per person limit) our cost is $332 per year.
Yeah! I got crazy lucky, I know. Even the insurance guy was like, "How the hell....I want insurance this cheap! omg."

Also, fwiw, I spent about 3 hours getting different quotes and am still waiting on my policy genius quote. So it was a very annoying day, but I needed to waste time while someone was working on my apartment.

iamblessed
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by iamblessed » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:32 am

Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:24 am
gr7070 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:12 am
Superleaf444 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 am
iamblessed wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm
My liability is $600 a year. Sounds like that liability is super low. Be careful. If you don't mind what insurance company is this?
Egad! Yeah, I have liberty mutual, but from my experience insurance companies tend to have different rates regionally.

Geico was good in the midwest for me, travelers in new york and liberty mutual in new england. I think I used allstate in the south.
I don't think they were referring to your liability premium being low. Well, they were; but they were really suggesting your coverage may be too low.

So, what is your liability limits? That's the most important aspect of your auto insurance policy.
Oh.
250/500/100
+
uninsured motorist 250/500
Wow I am shocked you have the same coverage as me. I am just shocked I have never seen liability at so low a price either. I am in the Midwest so it is not like a high cost of living place. I have 10k for medical payment so that is $80 of the $600. Given that you still have a great price.

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Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:46 am

Whelp, I decided to go for full coverage at $440 the year. I'll stick with it for a year and reassess. I think the $265 addition is a fairly low price for a safety net. Now 20 years of that, different, but for this year I'm okay paying it.

sandan
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by sandan » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:38 pm

I had to think long and hard about this as well.

Full coverage is worth it for me (with a high deductible). I rather let the insurance company negotiate a collision repair price than myself.

Marylander1
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Marylander1 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:52 pm

Note collision and comprehensive coverage usually convey to rental cars. If you drop coverage for cars you own, you're generally dropping them for rentals, too.

Marylander1

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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Outer Marker » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:00 pm

sandan wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:38 pm
Full coverage is worth it for me (with a high deductible). I rather let the insurance company negotiate a collision repair price than myself.
I've found the "cash price" to be 1/3 to 1/2 less than the "insurance price." Granted I've been doing business with the same body shop for 20+ years, but I don't think this is uncommon. Also, if you're paying for the repair yourself, you can agree to ignore minor inconsequential damage. I had to repaint a bumper this year after some idiot rear ended me. His insurance paid out $1,500. I negotiated an excellent repair for $600. Rather than replacing a $350 black plastic trim piece, I had the shop fill it with a little putty from the back side. Can hardly tell with the naked eye. A good shop can also blend paint rather the doing wholesale sections of the car. It does not make sense to cosmetically maintain a 10 year old car to showroom new standards. It still a great looking car. But ignoring a few minor flaws saves a lot of money.

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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Outer Marker » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:11 pm

Marylander1 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:52 pm
Note collision and comprehensive coverage usually convey to rental cars. If you drop coverage for cars you own, you're generally dropping them for rentals, too.
If you rent with a major credit card you're likely covered on that as a fringe benefit. Note: Do not use Amex, which does not cover loss-of-use to the rental company. Visa does. Not sure about the others.

novemberrain
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by novemberrain » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:08 pm

Also need to be cognizant of your state demographics. If it has a high percentage of groups who generally are uninsured, and or drive without license then you might wanna take that into account

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Superleaf444
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Re: Car Insurance - Liability or more?

Post by Superleaf444 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:42 am

novemberrain wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:08 pm
Also need to be cognizant of your state demographics. If it has a high percentage of groups who generally are uninsured, and or drive without license then you might wanna take that into account
Lol, living in the only US state that doesn't require car insurance. :oops:

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