Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

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tomtoms
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Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am

Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html

02nz
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:30 am

You could do the same math with almost any investment, with leverage. The S&P 500 with 2X leverage looks pretty good most years!

And what happens when your tenant can't/won't pay and also can't be evicted due to COVID restrictions?

The real estate market is so varied (state to state, even block to block) that a figure of 4.7% is almost completely meaningless.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:38 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am
Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html
23.5% gain.
Wow!!

Article states statistics come from a "10 City Composite".
Doesn't specify details of the number picking.

The same favorable statistics could be quoted for any certain week of the S&P500.
Or Bitcoin
Or REITs
Or. . . .

But, the article does have great pictures and sounds really fantastic and is well written.
j :happy
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bloom2708
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am

A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.

I think VRBO and AirBNB were hit very hard. "Rental properties" is a very broad space.

2020 is only 50% complete. Hopefully H2 is better.
"We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you." Unknown Boglehead

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:44 am

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:30 am
You could do the same math with almost any investment, with leverage. The S&P 500 with 2X leverage looks pretty good most years!

And what happens when your tenant can't/won't pay and also can't be evicted due to COVID restrictions?

The real estate market is so varied (state to state, even block to block) that a figure of 4.7% is almost completely meaningless.
1) What bank is going to lend you 80% of your investment at low interest rate so you can play the stock market?

2) Let's look at the data. Rent payment tracking finds 92% paid rent as of June 20th, same pace as in June 2019.

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html

I recommend only buying positive cash flow properties (rent > expenses). I also recommend putting at least 20% of rent away for repairs and vacancy.

3) Yes, 4.7% return is average which also means there are cities that have a higher price growth than 4.7%.

02nz
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:44 am
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:30 am
You could do the same math with almost any investment, with leverage. The S&P 500 with 2X leverage looks pretty good most years!

And what happens when your tenant can't/won't pay and also can't be evicted due to COVID restrictions?

The real estate market is so varied (state to state, even block to block) that a figure of 4.7% is almost completely meaningless.
1) What bank is going to lend you 80% of your investment at low interest rate so you can play the stock market?

2) Let's look at the data. Rent payment tracking finds 92% paid rent as of June 20th, same pace as in June 2019.

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html

I recommend only buying positive cash flow properties (rent > expenses). I also recommend putting at least 20% of rent away for repairs and vacancy.

3) Yes, 4.7% return is average which also means there are cities that have a higher price growth than 4.7%.
So, to keep this actionable: You should definitely go and buy some rental properties. :moneybag

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:04 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:38 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am
Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html
23.5% gain.
Wow!!

Article states statistics come from a "10 City Composite".
Doesn't specify details of the number picking.
4.7% growth is the national average. Here is more data if you are interested:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... x.html?m=1

02nz
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:21 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
A reminder that we're only 3 months into the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:27 am

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:21 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
A reminder that we're only 3 months into the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
Can you imagine how much real estate will grow when this is over? A home is no longer just a place to sleep. It is now also an office, among other changes due to this pandemic.
Last edited by tomtoms on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:28 am

As other examples:

I could invest zero, get a weekend part time job and make infinite percentage from the pay.

I could sell tradelines on my credit cards. I invest zero, spend time to add AUs, keep track so that cards with AUs have enough spend to report to the credit bureaus and remove AUs at the appropriate time.

Personally, I would rather do the above. Neither has the risk of a tenant trashing the place, using all the heating oil (which I paid for up front) and then leaving without notice. All of this happened to me. Landlording is work. If I'm going to work, I'd rather risk nothing and be able to stop without any notice and without any follow up (like evicting tenants or selling the property).
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:37 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:28 am
As other examples:

I could invest zero, get a weekend part time job and make infinite percentage from the pay.

I could sell tradelines on my credit cards. I invest zero, spend time to add AUs, keep track so that cards with AUs have enough spend to report to the credit bureaus and remove AUs at the appropriate time.

Personally, I would rather do the above. Neither has the risk of a tenant trashing the place, using all the heating oil (which I paid for up front) and then leaving without notice. All of this happened to me. Landlording is work. If I'm going to work, I'd rather risk nothing and be able to stop without any notice and without any follow up (like evicting tenants or selling the property).
You can hire a property manger to do those things.

I think people need to differentiate between an accidental landlord vs an investor landlord.

An accidental landlord is someone who inherited a property or turned their home into a rental property. Often these accidental landlords didn’t run the numbers or didn’t use a good property manager to do a background check on the tenants. You also need to keep in mind that not all homes are good rental properties...they don’t cash flow, they are too big or too small, they need a lot of maintenance work.

donaldfair71
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by donaldfair71 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:41 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:37 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:28 am
As other examples:

I could invest zero, get a weekend part time job and make infinite percentage from the pay.

I could sell tradelines on my credit cards. I invest zero, spend time to add AUs, keep track so that cards with AUs have enough spend to report to the credit bureaus and remove AUs at the appropriate time.

Personally, I would rather do the above. Neither has the risk of a tenant trashing the place, using all the heating oil (which I paid for up front) and then leaving without notice. All of this happened to me. Landlording is work. If I'm going to work, I'd rather risk nothing and be able to stop without any notice and without any follow up (like evicting tenants or selling the property).
You can hire a property manger to do those things.

I think people need to differentiate between an accidental landlord vs an investor landlord.

An accidental landlord is someone who inherited a property or turned their home into a rental property. Often these accidental landlords didn’t run the numbers or didn’t use a good property manager to do a background check on the tenants. You also need to keep in mind that not all homes are good rental properties...they don’t cash flow, they are too big or too small, they need a lot of maintenance work.
What if people can differentiate, and are simply still not interested?

Jags4186
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am

EDV, Vanguard’s Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund, is up over 27% year to date. So, no, rental real estate is not the best performing asset class of 2020.

bloom2708
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
"We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you." Unknown Boglehead

stoptothink
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by stoptothink » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:57 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Tomtoms already has a thread where they argue with everybody about real estate, don't let them have another one.

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am
EDV, Vanguard’s Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund, is up over 27% year to date. So, no, rental real estate is not the best performing asset class of 2020.
I oversimplified it. It is actually a lot more than 23.5%. The 23.5% is only the appreciation. I did not count mortgage pay down by tenants and extra rent money.

Jags4186
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am
EDV, Vanguard’s Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund, is up over 27% year to date. So, no, rental real estate is not the best performing asset class of 2020.
I oversimplified it. It is actually a lot more than 23.5%. The 23.5% is only the appreciation. I did not count mortgage pay down by tenants and extra rent money.
TMF is a 3x leveraged 20yr+ Treasury fund and it is up more than 60% YTD and that isn’t nearly as leveraged as your real estate.

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:08 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am
EDV, Vanguard’s Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund, is up over 27% year to date. So, no, rental real estate is not the best performing asset class of 2020.
I oversimplified it. It is actually a lot more than 23.5%. The 23.5% is only the appreciation. I did not count mortgage pay down by tenants and extra rent money.
TMF is a 3x leveraged 20yr+ Treasury fund and it is up more than 60% YTD and that isn’t nearly as leveraged as your real estate.
Again, what bank is going to lend you the money to leverage with low interest rate?

Jags4186
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:09 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:08 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am
EDV, Vanguard’s Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund, is up over 27% year to date. So, no, rental real estate is not the best performing asset class of 2020.
I oversimplified it. It is actually a lot more than 23.5%. The 23.5% is only the appreciation. I did not count mortgage pay down by tenants and extra rent money.
TMF is a 3x leveraged 20yr+ Treasury fund and it is up more than 60% YTD and that isn’t nearly as leveraged as your real estate.
Again, what bank is going to lend you the money to leverage with low interest rate?
You don’t need to borrow any money to participate. The fund borrows the money you buy the fund.

cheezit
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by cheezit » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:17 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:44 am
1) What bank is going to lend you 80% of your investment at low interest rate so you can play the stock market?
Between M1 and the 'banks' of Proshares and DirexionDaily, you can probably achieve 10x leverage cheaply if you're OK with the various ways that can blow up in your face.

Topic Author
tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:19 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:09 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:08 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am
EDV, Vanguard’s Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund, is up over 27% year to date. So, no, rental real estate is not the best performing asset class of 2020.
I oversimplified it. It is actually a lot more than 23.5%. The 23.5% is only the appreciation. I did not count mortgage pay down by tenants and extra rent money.
TMF is a 3x leveraged 20yr+ Treasury fund and it is up more than 60% YTD and that isn’t nearly as leveraged as your real estate.
Again, what bank is going to lend you the money to leverage with low interest rate?
You don’t need to borrow any money to participate. The fund borrows the money you buy the fund.
There is a reason why people don’t do it. It is not as stable as RE. It can lose all your investment overnight.

Topic Author
tomtoms
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.

02nz
Posts: 4755
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.
Serious question: Did you come here for advice or confirmation?

Topic Author
tomtoms
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:28 am

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.
Serious question: Did you come here for advice or confirmation?
I am merely here to provide data that other members are not providing.

02nz
Posts: 4755
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:29 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:28 am
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am


Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.
Serious question: Did you come here for advice or confirmation?
I am merely here to provide data that other members are not providing.
Then you're in the wrong forum. Personal investments is where you ask for advice on how to invest your own money.

stoptothink
Posts: 7847
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by stoptothink » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:31 am

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.
Serious question: Did you come here for advice or confirmation?
The troll already has their own thread, stop feeding them.

Topic Author
tomtoms
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 am

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:29 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:28 am
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am


Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.
Serious question: Did you come here for advice or confirmation?
I am merely here to provide data that other members are not providing.
Then you're in the wrong forum. Personal investments is where you ask for advice on how to invest your own money.
First, rental properties are investment.

Second, feel free to follow other threads if you are not interested.

Jags4186
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:42 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:19 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:09 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:08 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am


I oversimplified it. It is actually a lot more than 23.5%. The 23.5% is only the appreciation. I did not count mortgage pay down by tenants and extra rent money.
TMF is a 3x leveraged 20yr+ Treasury fund and it is up more than 60% YTD and that isn’t nearly as leveraged as your real estate.
Again, what bank is going to lend you the money to leverage with low interest rate?
You don’t need to borrow any money to participate. The fund borrows the money you buy the fund.
There is a reason why people don’t do it. It is not as stable as RE. It can lose all your investment overnight.
If you own a $100,000 home with an $80,000 mortgage and the home drops 10% in value you’ve lost 50% of your investment. Oh and when you sell that home you’ll further lose 6% in agent fees, 1-2% in transfer taxes, and you’ll likely spend 1-2% getting it ready to sell.

Seems like you could lose your entire investment overnight in rental real estate as well.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am
Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html
I own a variety of syndicated rental properties. None have outperformed long treasury bonds this year (up 21.86% year to date).

Your simplistic example is quite frankly wrong. You forgot to include the costs of that leverage. It isn't free. In fact, a property with 20% down probably doesn't even have a positive cash flow, i.e. the tenants are not paying all expenses. Existing home pricing is also only applicable to single family homes, not multi-family properties, where most renters are.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Enzo IX » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:44 am

Some of the wealthiest people I know made their fortune off of real estate. Most of them started small with single family real estate, then as they learned the business, moved to commercial real estate.

They did this starting with basically nothing and built their holdings, in a relatively short time frame, ie. 20-25 years.

As much as I like the ease and benefits of index fund investing, as far as wealth building goes, IMHO it does not come close to the wealth building power of real estate. As the OP stated it is because of the huge leverage most people use.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:45 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.

I think VRBO and AirBNB were hit very hard. "Rental properties" is a very broad space.

2020 is only 50% complete. Hopefully H2 is better.
Yes, short term rental income is way down.
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:45 am

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:57 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Tomtoms already has a thread where they argue with everybody about real estate, don't let them have another one.
Agreed. :thumbsup

This thread should be merged with that one.

But who is 'they'?
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by Scatterbrain » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:46 am

How is this thread much different than the “why are you not investing in rental properties?” one that was closed a couple weeks ago? I love RE and have half my net worth in rentals but these threads are just a little strange IMO. OP you know there are other real estate investing forums, right?

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 am

Scatterbrain wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:46 am
How is this thread much different than the “why are you not investing in rental properties?” one that was closed a couple weeks ago? I love RE and have half my net worth in rentals but these threads are just a little strange IMO. OP you know there are other real estate investing forums, right?
I mean this seriously: If the OP has any interest (beyond own investments) or affiliation with the real estate industry, that needs to be disclosed. These threads read like advertisements to me, and not very good ones at that.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:58 am

White Coat Investor wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am
Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html
I own a variety of syndicated rental properties. None have outperformed long treasury bonds this year (up 21.86% year to date).

Your simplistic example is quite frankly wrong. You forgot to include the costs of that leverage. It isn't free. In fact, a property with 20% down probably doesn't even have a positive cash flow, i.e. the tenants are not paying all expenses. Existing home pricing is also only applicable to single family homes, not multi-family properties, where most renters are.
Of course you are NOT going to make the same return with syndicated rental properties. A lot of your return goes to fees.

What is the cost of leverage nowadays? Have you seen the record low interest rate?

There are still plenty of properties that give you a positive cash flow with 20% down payment. It is certainly not as easy as before but there are still opportunities.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by JBTX » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:03 pm

Strikes me as a trolling thread, and if so, well done. Nonetheless I'll play.

The fact that real estate went up 4.7% and 92% make "full or partial payment" gives me zero evidence that as a class rental property is best performing. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Apples and oranges.

- it is just assumed that all expenses, including interest, are 100% covered by tenant. I have no evidence that is a reasonable assumption.

- I'm not sure what percent 92% "full or partial" rent payments add up to.

- the article mentions that prior months were less than 92% due to covid impacts. That factors into 2020 performance

- assume a $250k home, or $50k equity. 23% return amounts to about $12k. How much mental and physical effort goes into that $12k? How much risk? Having to deal with a rental property for a net inflow of $12k doesn't strike me as an attractive trade off.

- it is highly unlikely you can compound that growth rate. Most typically don't keep buying more and more leveraged properties.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by stoptothink » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:10 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:45 am
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:57 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
Real data doesn't do much for the individual. I suggest you buy 5,10,20 rental properties and report back the results annually. You can join the millions of small business owners operating out there.

Biggerpockets.com is a good hub for everything rental property related.
Tomtoms already has a thread where they argue with everybody about real estate, don't let them have another one.
Agreed. :thumbsup

This thread should be merged with that one.

But who is 'they'?
Figured it was safer to not assume the gender of Tomtoms.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:15 pm

Enzo IX wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:44 am
Some of the wealthiest people I know made their fortune off of real estate. Most of them started small with single family real estate, then as they learned the business, moved to commercial real estate.

They did this starting with basically nothing and built their holdings, in a relatively short time frame, ie. 20-25 years.

As much as I like the ease and benefits of index fund investing, as far as wealth building goes, IMHO it does not come close to the wealth building power of real estate. As the OP stated it is because of the huge leverage most people use.
This is exactly right. The great Jerry Buss used the money he made from real estate to buy the Lakers:

“ He worked in aerospace technology for Douglas Aircraft in California as a young man. But his life changed in the wake of a small investment he made in 1959 to buy a West Los Angeles apartment building with a former college friend, Frank Mariani. Profiting from a Los Angeles real estate boom, their company eventually owned hotels, office buildings, apartments and one-family homes.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... 0.amp.html

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:10 pm

JBTX wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:03 pm
- assume a $250k home, or $50k equity. 23% return amounts to about $12k. How much mental and physical effort goes into that $12k? How much risk? Having to deal with a rental property for a net inflow of $12k doesn't strike me as an attractive trade off.

- it is highly unlikely you can compound that growth rate. Most typically don't keep buying more and more leveraged properties.
Of course every investment has risk. I am certainly not advocating taking on more risk than you are willing to take (a good night sleep is important). This is why I am telling you to only buy rental properties that give you positive cash flow where you can save at least 20% of rent toward repairs and vacancy.

Also, $12 k return on a $50 k initial investment on the first year is pretty good. That initial return should keep on going up as the value of your property also goes up but your time horizon should be over 10, 20 years.

I just don’t get the perception on this forum that you need to be some kind of expert to make good money from real estate or real estate investment requires enormous amount of work. Like investing in stocks, there is a right way of doing things and there is a wrong way. Doing things right will save you a lot of time and will make you a lot of money.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by smitcat » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:19 pm

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 am
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:29 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:28 am
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am


Don’t think more units mean more risk. For example, if you own 20 units and one tenant didn’t pay rent then your rent collection is 95%.
Serious question: Did you come here for advice or confirmation?
I am merely here to provide data that other members are not providing.
Then you're in the wrong forum. Personal investments is where you ask for advice on how to invest your own money.
First, rental properties are investment.

Second, feel free to follow other threads if you are not interested.
I am interested in much more details on your rental properties and how they have done please.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by WildBill » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 pm

Howdy

Been a real estate investor for over 40 years, in raw land, commercial and rentals. Made good money. It is a business, and I observed many starry eyed individuals go broke and/or become severely disillusioned because they were sold it as a get rich scheme with the kinds of stuff you are saying.

Your assumptions and claims are silly. Rental properties are illiquid, and quoting some index about increase in values in SFH and translating that as an investment gain is absurd. Your property is only worth what someone will pay you for it, it will cost you to sell it, and you take a substantial haircut on capital gains and depreciation recapture.

Real estate is a good way to get rich, but making ridiculous claims leads experienced folks to conclude 1- You do not know what you are talking about and are posting for whatever reason or 2. - you are trying to sell something.

For what it is worth I have been selling off the past several years as it looks like real estate is topping out. Maybe selling to you😀

Good luck with the bright future of 23.5% annual returns as far as the eye can see.

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

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tomtoms
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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:43 pm

WildBill wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 pm
Howdy

Been a real estate investor for over 40 years, in raw land, commercial and rentals. Made good money. It is a business, and I observed many starry eyed individuals go broke and/or become severely disillusioned because they were sold it as a get rich scheme with the kinds of stuff you are saying.

Your assumptions and claims are silly. Rental properties are illiquid, and quoting some index about increase in values in SFH and translating that as an investment gain is absurd. Your property is only worth what someone will pay you for it, it will cost you to sell it, and you take a substantial haircut on capital gains and depreciation recapture.

Real estate is a good way to get rich, but making ridiculous claims leads experienced folks to conclude 1- You do not know what you are talking about and are posting for whatever reason or 2. - you are trying to sell something.

For what it is worth I have been selling off the past several years as it looks like real estate is topping out. Maybe selling to you😀

Good luck with the bright future of 23.5% annual returns as far as the eye can see.

W B
No one is saying you are going to make 23.5% return every year. There is going to be a point where buying doesn’t make sense.

What am I selling exactly?

And no, real estate investment is NOT a get rich scheme. I have always been advocating for long term horizon.

If you read this forum, people have been predicting there is going to be a housing market crash, even in 2012 when the housing market bottomed out. Can you imagine the money you would have made if you didn’t listen to them?

If you have been selling for the last few years then you certainly got it wrong (so far).

There is already a change of perception. A home is now much more than a place to sleep. Interest rate is also low. This explains why RE has been going up during a pandemic.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by WildBill » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:55 pm

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:43 pm
WildBill wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 pm
Howdy

Been a real estate investor for over 40 years, in raw land, commercial and rentals. Made good money. It is a business, and I observed many starry eyed individuals go broke and/or become severely disillusioned because they were sold it as a get rich scheme with the kinds of stuff you are saying.

Your assumptions and claims are silly. Rental properties are illiquid, and quoting some index about increase in values in SFH and translating that as an investment gain is absurd. Your property is only worth what someone will pay you for it, it will cost you to sell it, and you take a substantial haircut on capital gains and depreciation recapture.

Real estate is a good way to get rich, but making ridiculous claims leads experienced folks to conclude 1- You do not know what you are talking about and are posting for whatever reason or 2. - you are trying to sell something.

For what it is worth I have been selling off the past several years as it looks like real estate is topping out. Maybe selling to you😀

Good luck with the bright future of 23.5% annual returns as far as the eye can see.

W B
No one is saying you are going to make 23.5% return every year. There is going to be a point where buying doesn’t make sense.

What am I selling exactly? There is a history of hucksters of various sorts coming onto the forum to reel in suckers via private messaging. Since you sound like the ads for the “make a fortune in real estate with no money down courses” you leave yourself open to that interpretation. Don’t know what you are selling, but whatever it is I am not buying.

And no, real estate investment is NOT a get rich scheme. I have always been advocating for long term horizon.

If you read this forum, people have been predicting there is going to be a housing market crash, even in 2012 when the housing market bottomed out. Can you imagine the money you would have made if you didn’t listen to them?

If you have been selling for the last few years then you certainly got it wrong (so far). If you say so. Markets are local, transactions are local, and you make your money in real estate when you buy. I am more than satisfied with the sales.

There is already a change of perception. A home is now much more than a place to sleep. This explains why RE has been going up during a pandemic.
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:07 pm

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:58 am
White Coat Investor wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am
Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html
I own a variety of syndicated rental properties. None have outperformed long treasury bonds this year (up 21.86% year to date).

Your simplistic example is quite frankly wrong. You forgot to include the costs of that leverage. It isn't free. In fact, a property with 20% down probably doesn't even have a positive cash flow, i.e. the tenants are not paying all expenses. Existing home pricing is also only applicable to single family homes, not multi-family properties, where most renters are.
Of course you are NOT going to make the same return with syndicated rental properties. A lot of your return goes to fees.

What is the cost of leverage nowadays? Have you seen the record low interest rate?

There are still plenty of properties that give you a positive cash flow with 20% down payment. It is certainly not as easy as before but there are still opportunities.
What interest rates are you getting on rental property mortgages you are purchasing this Spring? Even with a nice mortgage, it's pretty tough to have positive cash flow with only 20% down unless you bought the property for much less than it should have been sold for.

So let's say you put down a more realistic 33% and are precisely cash flow neutral. If the property appreciated 4.7% you're up 14%, but I suspect that's probably a result of a substantial gain in the last half of 2019 and a substantial loss in 2020 and is probably ignoring the sticky pricing that SFHs tend to see anyway.

As far as fees, absolutely. You either put in the time or you put in the money. Same as hiring a property manager. You can find and manage the tenants yourself, or you can hire someone else to do it. If you know what your time is worth, it's a fairly easy decision to make. If I calculated in the value of my time managing a property, there are very few properties I could buy that would return a profit with me managing them. At any rate, none of my syndications are making 24% before fees in 2020. They're just happy that most of the tenants are paying their rent.

There's a reason that the REIT index fund is down 8% over the last 12 months and it isn't because real estate has been the best asset class over that time period.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of real estate investing; I just think it's crazy to think it was the best performing asset class over the last 12 months when there is so much evidence that it isn't.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:11 pm

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 am
Scatterbrain wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:46 am
How is this thread much different than the “why are you not investing in rental properties?” one that was closed a couple weeks ago? I love RE and have half my net worth in rentals but these threads are just a little strange IMO. OP you know there are other real estate investing forums, right?
I mean this seriously: If the OP has any interest (beyond own investments) or affiliation with the real estate industry, that needs to be disclosed. These threads read like advertisements to me, and not very good ones at that.
What? What's being advertised? There isn't a single specific company mentioned by the OP.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by 02nz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:14 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:11 pm
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 am
Scatterbrain wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:46 am
How is this thread much different than the “why are you not investing in rental properties?” one that was closed a couple weeks ago? I love RE and have half my net worth in rentals but these threads are just a little strange IMO. OP you know there are other real estate investing forums, right?
I mean this seriously: If the OP has any interest (beyond own investments) or affiliation with the real estate industry, that needs to be disclosed. These threads read like advertisements to me, and not very good ones at that.
What? What's being advertised? There isn't a single specific company mentioned by the OP.
To point out the obvious: not all advertising is for a specific company. If OP is in the real estate industry, that needs to be disclosed. Scrolling through OP's posts, virtually all are threads like this one.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by bmelikia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:24 pm

tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:27 am
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:21 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am
A friend has 20 units rented. Long term rental units. With Covid, ~25% were behind in rent in May. June seems to be improving. A few caught up.
Why use anecdotal evidence when there is real data you can look at? Here is one from the NMHC. Despite what you have been hearing from the media, current rent payment is on the same pace as in June 2019:

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020 ... ds-92.html
A reminder that we're only 3 months into the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
Can you imagine how much real estate will grow when this is over? A home is no longer just a place to sleep. It is now also an office, among other changes due to this pandemic.
TomTom - do it. Done.
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | "The greatest enemy of a good plan, is the dream of a perfect plan." | -Bogle

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by tomtoms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:24 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:07 pm
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:58 am
White Coat Investor wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am
tomtoms wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:24 am
Prices for existing homes rose 4.7% compared with April 2019. If you had put 20% down payment and your tenants pay for all expenses including long term repairs and vacancy then you just made 5 x 4.7% = 23.5%! Is rental property the best performing asset in 2020?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/coronav ... -says.html
I own a variety of syndicated rental properties. None have outperformed long treasury bonds this year (up 21.86% year to date).

Your simplistic example is quite frankly wrong. You forgot to include the costs of that leverage. It isn't free. In fact, a property with 20% down probably doesn't even have a positive cash flow, i.e. the tenants are not paying all expenses. Existing home pricing is also only applicable to single family homes, not multi-family properties, where most renters are.
Of course you are NOT going to make the same return with syndicated rental properties. A lot of your return goes to fees.

What is the cost of leverage nowadays? Have you seen the record low interest rate?

There are still plenty of properties that give you a positive cash flow with 20% down payment. It is certainly not as easy as before but there are still opportunities.
What interest rates are you getting on rental property mortgages you are purchasing this Spring? Even with a nice mortgage, it's pretty tough to have positive cash flow with only 20% down unless you bought the property for much less than it should have been sold for.

So let's say you put down a more realistic 33% and are precisely cash flow neutral. If the property appreciated 4.7% you're up 14%, but I suspect that's probably a result of a substantial gain in the last half of 2019 and a substantial loss in 2020 and is probably ignoring the sticky pricing that SFHs tend to see anyway.

As far as fees, absolutely. You either put in the time or you put in the money. Same as hiring a property manager. You can find and manage the tenants yourself, or you can hire someone else to do it. If you know what your time is worth, it's a fairly easy decision to make. If I calculated in the value of my time managing a property, there are very few properties I could buy that would return a profit with me managing them. At any rate, none of my syndications are making 24% before fees in 2020. They're just happy that most of the tenants are paying their rent.

There's a reason that the REIT index fund is down 8% over the last 12 months and it isn't because real estate has been the best asset class over that time period.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of real estate investing; I just think it's crazy to think it was the best performing asset class over the last 12 months when there is so much evidence that it isn't.
The housing market is heating up so that is a fair point. Let’s go with your number of 33% down payment and 14% return. That is appreciation alone. That return doesn’t include mortgage pay down by your tenants and extra rent money. I expect you would make at least 2x the return of stock if you include everything. The question is...is it worth your time for the extra return? It might not be if you just own one rental.

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Re: Rental properties: best-performing asset class in 2020?

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:33 pm

02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:14 pm
White Coat Investor wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:11 pm
02nz wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 am
Scatterbrain wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:46 am
How is this thread much different than the “why are you not investing in rental properties?” one that was closed a couple weeks ago? I love RE and have half my net worth in rentals but these threads are just a little strange IMO. OP you know there are other real estate investing forums, right?
I mean this seriously: If the OP has any interest (beyond own investments) or affiliation with the real estate industry, that needs to be disclosed. These threads read like advertisements to me, and not very good ones at that.
What? What's being advertised? There isn't a single specific company mentioned by the OP.
To point out the obvious: not all advertising is for a specific company. If OP is in the real estate industry, that needs to be disclosed. Scrolling through OP's posts, virtually all are threads like this one.
Give me a break. That's like having a disclosure at the bottom of every post I have that I work in the blogging industry or the health care industry.

Unless he owns CNBC, I don't see anything to disclose. Argue with his opinions rather than going ad hominem just because you don't agree with him.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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