Refinance Mega Thread

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Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:46 pm

FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:29 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:20 pm
FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:09 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:53 pm
Update:


Better.com was wiling to match the best offer that I received from LenderFI, and then taking the $2500 AMEX promo into acct I am going forward with better.

Terms as follows:
Loan amount: $419k
Rate: 2.75%
Term: 30 year fixed
Loan costs (A+B+C) = $1079
Lender Credits of $1079 to offset loan costs, so my only $$ required to close is for my prepaids (interest, insurance, and property taxes)

Thanks to all who posted the great info on this thread - So helpful
So you got an estimate from Lender fi and then gave it to better? Better is matching the rate and covering the closing costs? So you get 2500 in your pocket?
Yes that's exactly what I did. I started out with Better with around $2300 in fees and a rate of 2.875% which seemed good, and then LenderFI came in at 2.75% no fees which better was willing to match. On top of that, I'll get the $2500 amex statement credit after closing as I understand it.
That’s incredible. Did lenderfi at the first instance came out with no fees or did you have to negotiate? How soon can you refinance if the rates drop further ?
Between the Amex $2500 and $986 credit after all closing cost covered. I’m walking away with $3486. Plus a rate drop from 4.3 to 2.875.

Lots of people gotten better deals. But I’m extremely happy and will refi again if rates drop low enough.

Berean
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:59 pm

mx711yam wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:42 pm
Better just called me and said they can't touch the loandepot offer, and they wouldn't even try. He said they were told by higher ups to shut down refi matches due to the amex offer. They claimed they were literally losing money on refis and they weren't going to be doing it anymore. I asked him about the $1000 dollars since they couldn't match and he said I just need to send in the closing disclosures and they would cut me a check. I'm pretty shocked, guess I'll got with a local lender.
Better did the same thing to me yesterday. Instead of matching a favorable LE I got from LenderFI, Better told me to just take it.

I read the fine print of Better's guarantee. It says that Better will pay a borrower $1,000 if it is unable to match a competitor's LE. It requires the borrower actually close the loan contained in that same LE, then send paperwork to Better. Better claims it will pay the $1,000 within eight weeks thereafter. That seems quite risky because Better reserves the rights to alter or discontinue its guarantee at any time without notice. Has anyone on this board actually successfully received that $1,000?

Berean
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:10 pm

limeyx wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:48 pm
Berean wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
limeyx wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:47 am
logos wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:53 am
Refi with Better closed last Friday.

$450k at 2.625%, $1.5k lender credit to offset their fees - so essentially no fees.

I was a bit skeptical but better was actually very easy to work with.
Nice. I sent my Quicken LE to Better and they ... bettered it by a bit (it was tricky since QL had the appraisal fee still included but will waive this later)
Then I showed the LE to Quicken and told them about the Amex credit and they offered $2000 in lender credits, so it was close enough and we will keep going with QL
Quicken told me that they too offer the $2,500 AmEx credit.
Interesting, I do see that. I wonder if somehow I can make them give this to me also !
I applied online with Quicken. When they called me, I asked about the AmEx credit. He put a notation in my file. He said that if and when I lock with Quicken, they will ask for my AmEx account number to post the credit.
See this link: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/camp ... ken-loans/

Berean
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:13 pm

Bleedinggums99 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:18 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:12 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:04 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:00 pm
I have been trying to get offers for 30 year mortgages with no fees or points so that I can easily compare apples to apples to my current 30 year mortgage at 3.50%. Seems the best that's out there without fees or points is 3.375%. Hardly seems worth it to refinance for 0.125%.
Depends how big the loan is. Read back a few pages on this thread, most people are getting sub 3% with multiple $1000s of credits on conventional 30yr fixed, myself included. Of course if its a jumbo or very small loan, you can’t get the best rates.
Why am I not getting these rates? Our credit scores are both 800+, less than 80% LTV, $295k remaining on the loan. I don't get it.
You have to have let them pull you credit score and shop their Loan Estimates.The first one I received was a 2.875% for 30 and 2.25 for 15 with either costing over 10,000. After shopping around it has come down to 2.25 for the 15 and 2.75 for the 30 and its only going to cost a few bucks

2.25% 15-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> $27
2.75% 30-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$54
Which lender gave you these great rates?

Berean
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:27 pm

An official loan estimate breaks down costs into ten sections represented by letters A through J. When a borrow gets a no-closing-cost loan, exactly which section(s) show a figure of zero?

Jags4186
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:28 pm

Berean wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:27 pm
An official loan estimate breaks down costs into ten sections represented by letters A through J. When a borrow gets a no-closing-cost loan, exactly which section(s) show a figure of zero?
Nothing shows zero. D + E - lender credit = $0 is a “no cost” loan.

berg
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by berg » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:46 pm

Hi all - this thread has been so helpful. I can't believe I am even here, I refi'd last October from 3.75% to 3.25%!

Anyway - would love any thoughts comparing these two options. Both LenderFi and Loan Depot are offering me 30 year 2.75% no closing costs. Loan Depot is actually coming out with a credit of $433, but they require me to escrow taxes and insurance (so it will reduce my my prepaids). I currently escrow just taxes, but not insurance get a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay (plus the credit card points!).

LenderFi is offering 2.75% with $0 closing costs as well, with no escrow required.

I have spent more time on the phone with Loan Depot, but they have been more salesly and dragging feet on loan estimate. LenderFi took a bit longer to get on the phone, but provided the Loan Estimate quickly and is ready for me to e-sign.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward LenderFi for the benefit of no escrow and the bird in the hand loan estimate.

DoctorPhysics
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoctorPhysics » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:11 pm

berg wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:46 pm
Hi all - this thread has been so helpful. I can't believe I am even here, I refi'd last October from 3.75% to 3.25%!

Anyway - would love any thoughts comparing these two options. Both LenderFi and Loan Depot are offering me 30 year 2.75% no closing costs. Loan Depot is actually coming out with a credit of $433, but they require me to escrow taxes and insurance (so it will reduce my my prepaids). I currently escrow just taxes, but not insurance get a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay (plus the credit card points!).

LenderFi is offering 2.75% with $0 closing costs as well, with no escrow required.

I have spent more time on the phone with Loan Depot, but they have been more salesly and dragging feet on loan estimate. LenderFi took a bit longer to get on the phone, but provided the Loan Estimate quickly and is ready for me to e-sign.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward LenderFi for the benefit of no escrow and the bird in the hand loan estimate.

I'm actually talking to LenderFi and LoanDepot.

I have LE from LenderFi with 20 year, 2.75%, no escrow, pre-paid of $500, everything else zero after credits. This is my bird in hand. Already locked and getting underwriter approval.

Loan Depot is pushing the sales hard (putting down the other guy "biting off more than they can chew" and "can't close in time", they are dragging their feet on the LE, it has been 2 days since I provided all the information neccesary. Clock is ticking. They are "talking" to reduce the pre-paid of $500 to $0, but not official LE. They want me to confirm I will go with them before providing the LE, which is kind of silly because I know we have a right of refusal, even up to 3 days after signing final documents.

Honestly... I'm going to go with the bird in hand until the other bird lands!

teCh0010
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by teCh0010 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 pm

My refi is complete.
6/5 locked with Better.com (3.0%, $822 credit + 2500 Amex)
6/22 closing paperwork complete
6/26 Loan funded
6/25 Old servicer showing paid in full

Went very fast, and smooth. Last task on portal wanted last 4 of Amex to apply credit. Not sure how long on the credit.

Based on the rates people posted last week it looks like I jumped the gun by a few weeks.

Triple digit golfer
Posts: 5330
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Triple digit golfer » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:23 pm

Berean wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:42 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:11 pm
Berean wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:41 am
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:02 pm
Really dumb question. Are you all letting multiple lenders run hard credit checks to give you rate quotes? I'd like to compare lenders but I'm finding that they all want to run credit before working with me on quotes.
Really good question. I faced the same issue. I had several lenders refuse to give me even a loose estimate until they checked my credit, so I finally relented and gave them all my consent. A guy at Equifax told me that multiple hard inquiries from lenders within a few days of each other only count as one inquiry. If that is true, I hope it won't ding my credit score too much.
Thank you. Mine and my wife's credit is frozen at all three major bureaus. Do I just unfreeze them all for 14 days, reach out to various lenders in that time and let them do their checks?
Yes, that is what I did. First, I removed the freeze on my credit report at all three bureaus for seven days. Then I applied for refis with five lenders, giving each one permission to check my credit. Today, I opened my credit report and saw that all five lenders had already pulled my report. So now I am re-freezing my credit at all three bureaus. It is scary but necessary.
Thanks. I just unfroze my wife and my credit for all three bureaus for seven days, coincidentally, before I read your message.

Already got a verbal quote of 3.0% for a 30 year with $1,950 closing costs.

Triple digit golfer
Posts: 5330
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Triple digit golfer » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:24 pm

Getting rate quotes from:

Better
NorthPointe
Lenderfi
Rocket
Guaranteed Rate - have a good relationship with the banker there already, a local guy who did my original loan four years ago with Wells Fargo

GRAZ
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GRAZ » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:53 pm

FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:29 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:20 pm
FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:09 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:53 pm
Update:


Better.com was wiling to match the best offer that I received from LenderFI, and then taking the $2500 AMEX promo into acct I am going forward with better.

Terms as follows:
Loan amount: $419k
Rate: 2.75%
Term: 30 year fixed
Loan costs (A+B+C) = $1079
Lender Credits of $1079 to offset loan costs, so my only $$ required to close is for my prepaids (interest, insurance, and property taxes)

Thanks to all who posted the great info on this thread - So helpful
So you got an estimate from Lender fi and then gave it to better? Better is matching the rate and covering the closing costs? So you get 2500 in your pocket?
Yes that's exactly what I did. I started out with Better with around $2300 in fees and a rate of 2.875% which seemed good, and then LenderFI came in at 2.75% no fees which better was willing to match. On top of that, I'll get the $2500 amex statement credit after closing as I understand it.
That’s incredible. Did lenderfi at the first instance came out with no fees or did you have to negotiate? How soon can you refinance if the rates drop further ?
Initially I was just using the online rates published on the LenderFI website which Better was willing to match, but then after reading on here that people were getting better rates through LenderFI by actually speaking with someone I filled out an application. On Friday, I spoke with LenderFI and was offered the 30 yr 2.75% no fee option. Today Better offered to match that offer, and with the $2500 AMEX I will come out ahead. I think I was fortunate in the timing as rates were dipping down last week. I'm very happy with this, although it sounds like it's possible for rates to drop even more.

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:18 pm

teCh0010 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 pm
My refi is complete.
6/5 locked with Better.com (3.0%, $822 credit + 2500 Amex)
6/22 closing paperwork complete
6/26 Loan funded
6/25 Old servicer showing paid in full

Went very fast, and smooth. Last task on portal wanted last 4 of Amex to apply credit. Not sure how long on the credit.

Based on the rates people posted last week it looks like I jumped the gun by a few weeks.
When I locked with my better rep, he asked for my Amex number and said he will tag my account. I also confirm with a processing rep the following day. They said it was good to go. Where you able to see the Amex promo on the better portal? I can find it anywhere. I’ll take his word for it but would feel comfortable seeing it myself.

Monsterflockster
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Monsterflockster » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:20 pm

GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:53 pm
FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:29 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:20 pm
FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:09 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:53 pm
Update:


Better.com was wiling to match the best offer that I received from LenderFI, and then taking the $2500 AMEX promo into acct I am going forward with better.

Terms as follows:
Loan amount: $419k
Rate: 2.75%
Term: 30 year fixed
Loan costs (A+B+C) = $1079
Lender Credits of $1079 to offset loan costs, so my only $$ required to close is for my prepaids (interest, insurance, and property taxes)

Thanks to all who posted the great info on this thread - So helpful
So you got an estimate from Lender fi and then gave it to better? Better is matching the rate and covering the closing costs? So you get 2500 in your pocket?
Yes that's exactly what I did. I started out with Better with around $2300 in fees and a rate of 2.875% which seemed good, and then LenderFI came in at 2.75% no fees which better was willing to match. On top of that, I'll get the $2500 amex statement credit after closing as I understand it.
That’s incredible. Did lenderfi at the first instance came out with no fees or did you have to negotiate? How soon can you refinance if the rates drop further ?
Initially I was just using the online rates published on the LenderFI website which Better was willing to match, but then after reading on here that people were getting better rates through LenderFI by actually speaking with someone I filled out an application. On Friday, I spoke with LenderFI and was offered the 30 yr 2.75% no fee option. Today Better offered to match that offer, and with the $2500 AMEX I will come out ahead. I think I was fortunate in the timing as rates were dipping down last week. I'm very happy with this, although it sounds like it's possible for rates to drop even more.
If rates drop when you are locked you could go back to LenderFI?

GRAZ
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GRAZ » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:26 pm

Monsterflockster wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:20 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:53 pm
FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:29 pm
GRAZ wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:20 pm
FordMustang12 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:09 pm

So you got an estimate from Lender fi and then gave it to better? Better is matching the rate and covering the closing costs? So you get 2500 in your pocket?
Yes that's exactly what I did. I started out with Better with around $2300 in fees and a rate of 2.875% which seemed good, and then LenderFI came in at 2.75% no fees which better was willing to match. On top of that, I'll get the $2500 amex statement credit after closing as I understand it.
That’s incredible. Did lenderfi at the first instance came out with no fees or did you have to negotiate? How soon can you refinance if the rates drop further ?
Initially I was just using the online rates published on the LenderFI website which Better was willing to match, but then after reading on here that people were getting better rates through LenderFI by actually speaking with someone I filled out an application. On Friday, I spoke with LenderFI and was offered the 30 yr 2.75% no fee option. Today Better offered to match that offer, and with the $2500 AMEX I will come out ahead. I think I was fortunate in the timing as rates were dipping down last week. I'm very happy with this, although it sounds like it's possible for rates to drop even more.
If rates drop when you are locked you could go back to LenderFI?
I suppose I could, although with the $2500 amex credit I'm not sure if LenderFI would be competitive. As of now my intent is to continue with Better and get this closed.

teCh0010
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by teCh0010 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:26 pm

Familyman2012 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:18 pm
teCh0010 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 pm
My refi is complete.
6/5 locked with Better.com (3.0%, $822 credit + 2500 Amex)
6/22 closing paperwork complete
6/26 Loan funded
6/25 Old servicer showing paid in full

Went very fast, and smooth. Last task on portal wanted last 4 of Amex to apply credit. Not sure how long on the credit.

Based on the rates people posted last week it looks like I jumped the gun by a few weeks.
When I locked with my better rep, he asked for my Amex number and said he will tag my account. I also confirm with a processing rep the following day. They said it was good to go. Where you able to see the Amex promo on the better portal? I can find it anywhere. I’ll take his word for it but would feel comfortable seeing it myself.
The last task that popped up for me in the better portal (after closing) asked for the last four of the card I wanted the credit on. That was the first time I saw anything about the promo in the portal.

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:34 pm

teCh0010 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:26 pm
Familyman2012 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:18 pm
teCh0010 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 pm
My refi is complete.
6/5 locked with Better.com (3.0%, $822 credit + 2500 Amex)
6/22 closing paperwork complete
6/26 Loan funded
6/25 Old servicer showing paid in full

Went very fast, and smooth. Last task on portal wanted last 4 of Amex to apply credit. Not sure how long on the credit.

Based on the rates people posted last week it looks like I jumped the gun by a few weeks.
When I locked with my better rep, he asked for my Amex number and said he will tag my account. I also confirm with a processing rep the following day. They said it was good to go. Where you able to see the Amex promo on the better portal? I can find it anywhere. I’ll take his word for it but would feel comfortable seeing it myself.
The last task that popped up for me in the better portal (after closing) asked for the last four of the card I wanted the credit on. That was the first time I saw anything about the promo in the portal.
Okay cool. Thanks makes me feel better

Sharp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Sharp » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:35 pm

Quote review request:

Have a refinance quote from Loan Depot for $334k at 20 years and 3.25%. Note that we plan on selling/moving in roughly 4 years.

This rate beats a LenderFI quote I received, and there are no closing costs (for either quote), but Loan Depot is doing one thing different: within that $334k, they've included a $5000 allowance for taxes/insurance, and the rest comes to me at closing (estimated cash back around $2500). Said another way, I only owe $329k on my current mortgage, and they want me to finance an extra $5k.

I don't really care either whether that 5k is financed or not, but wanted to know if that was typical practice/acceptable to the Boglehead community?

I have no problem pre-paying for taxes/insurance out of pocket, and because we'll probably be moving in 4ish years, I would not be paying paying 20 years worth of interest on that 5k.

Does this seem to be a good deal?

Appreciate any feedback.

Jcwcable
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:50 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jcwcable » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm

I must be doing something wrong based on what I’m seeing here. Now I should be able to get the amex credit (I hope) but when I pulled LenderFI rates tonight a 30 year loan ($202k) came back with the best rate of 2.5% but with $7,769 in points/credits. It’s similar from credible 2.5% but with $8,542 in loan costs, and the best that better.com is offering is 2.75% for $6,654.

Is it because a loan of 202k is too small? Credit score is upwards of 780. Current loan is $202700 with 25 years remaining at 4%. Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated!

kevdude
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kevdude » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:30 pm

Hello all. First, I want to thank everyone that is participating in this thread. A couple of weeks ago I was thinking about refinancing and started to read this thread. Last week I started to send out inquiries and got quotes through Costco (Mutual of Omaha, NBKC Bank, Lender.com, Amerisave, Loan Depot and others), Northpointe, Better, AHC Lending, Quicken, our existing lender (Umpqua Bank), and BofA, with whom we have Platinum Honors Rewards.

Our existing mortgage is $262K, house is worth approximately $850,000, and we also have a $95,000 2nd with BofA that we are not paying off (currently floating at 2.49%). Both of our credit scores are over 800 and we live in Washington state. We semi-retired in 2013 and receive the vast majority of our income through income properties. I'm pretty much looking for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage.

Initially Mutual of Omaha, Amerisave, and AHC Lending had the best rates. A couple of lenders (Lender.com and a local mortgage company) said they would not lock rate until they had until they had a signed subordination. AHC Lending said they are not taking applications right now with people that own their own businesses or receive most of their income from rental properties. This kind of bummed me out because they had the best rates/fee initially. I spoke with a couple of loan consultants at Quicken and they both said they do not add back depreciation for rental income, which would kill our loan. I also found out later that they do not know what they are talking about because they actually do. So, I decided not to apply with them if their loan officers are that ignorant. Both BofA and Umpqua were not competitive from the get go. In fact, the BofA guy said they are so swamped right now that closings are taking between 60-90 days. Because of that they do not feel they have the need to compete at this time. The rate on their website is it, no negotiating.

I ended up applying with the following lenders:
Mutual of Omaha - 3%, ($270) in points, $350 loan fee
Northpointe Bank - 2.95%, $470 in points, $1195 in loan fees
Amerisave - 3%, initially $256 in points, $500 in loan fees.
Better - 3%, $4200 in points, and no loan fee. I applied based on the $1000 Rate Guarantee.

Better sent their LE Friday night, Mutual of Omaha sent theirs on Saturday, and I still have not received Northpointe's. I received Amerisave's yesterday but they increased the points to $2200. I questioned this and the loan rep said it was because I had not disclosed the 2nd to them. However, I have texts and emails with him where I am clear we have one and I do not want to pay it off. It seems like he just shrugged his shoulders at this. Saturday I sent Mutual of Omaha's LE to Better and asked them to beat it.

After Amerisave's LE showed up I advised him that they are no longer competitive and asked if they would match/beat other LE's. He said if I wanted to lock the rate and then send them a better offer, they guarantee they will beat it. Because of the earlier mix up I decided not go any further with them.

All lender's have said that the appraisal has been waived.

Today, before Better got back to me, Mutual advised me that the market worsened a bit and their points went uo to $1000. Better then got back to me and beat Mutuals deal by $100, stating that today they now only guarantee they'll beat a competitor by that amount, not the previous $1000. I advised them that since I had been working with them since last week they really should honor that program. I then sent that LE to Mutual and asked if he could beat it and he said he couldn't even match it because his par deal had gone up throughout the day. Better then cam back and asked me if they do beat Mutual's deal by $1000 would I lock rate today. I said yes especially since Mutual's deal had now gotten worse. :D So, they did and I did. So we are locked at 3% with a $1005 lender credit. And we will receive the Amex $2500 credit, which I was also unaware of before reading this thread.

Better and Mutual of Omaha have been very responsive through all of this. I had questions regarding the 2nd and our income sources and both got back to me quickly. With Mutual I was talking directly to the loan rep which was very nice. At Better, I have talked with associates on my "Loan Team" and have yet to speak with my Loan Expert. This kind of bothered me at first, but things are moving along anyway.

I didn't see any reasonable quotes below 3% that others have seen. We do have the 2nd, which we are not paying off, so I believe that added a little to the rate, and the loan amount isn't that large. That being said, assuming we close we will be pretty happy.

Monsterflockster
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Monsterflockster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:50 am

So it seems like the best rates (no cost) are 2.25% for 15 yr & 2.75 for 30 yr. Obviously location & need to be in the sweet spot for loan size & loan to value.

Anyone see anything lower?

pindevil
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:59 am

pindevil wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:52 am
There may be changes coming to better.com and their price guarantee. While talking to them on the phone yesterday I was told the price guarantee is being replaced by the better price match. They will match a competing offer and beat costs by $100. A big difference compared to the $1000 they had offered.

Not sure if this is just something they are thinking about doing or if it's already in effect. The person I spoke to couldn't give me a price match and had to "open a ticket" with my loan processor. The old price guarantee is still listed on their web site and I don't see anything mentioned about the better price match I was told about over the phone.
And now they updated their web site... the $1000 price guarantee is gone.

Jags4186
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:16 am

Sharp wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:35 pm
Quote review request:

Have a refinance quote from Loan Depot for $334k at 20 years and 3.25%. Note that we plan on selling/moving in roughly 4 years.

This rate beats a LenderFI quote I received, and there are no closing costs (for either quote), but Loan Depot is doing one thing different: within that $334k, they've included a $5000 allowance for taxes/insurance, and the rest comes to me at closing (estimated cash back around $2500). Said another way, I only owe $329k on my current mortgage, and they want me to finance an extra $5k.

I don't really care either whether that 5k is financed or not, but wanted to know if that was typical practice/acceptable to the Boglehead community?

I have no problem pre-paying for taxes/insurance out of pocket, and because we'll probably be moving in 4ish years, I would not be paying paying 20 years worth of interest on that 5k.

Does this seem to be a good deal?

Appreciate any feedback.
We need a breakdown of the loan to tell you whether its a good deal or not.

Please give us the amounts in the loan estimate:

Loan Amount:
Interest Rate:

A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:
H:
I:
J:

Calculated Cash to Close
Loan Amount:
Total Closing Costs:
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments:

In general, unless you’re tight on cash, adding onto your loan is not preferable. Also, and rates may have ticked up I’m not 100% sure, you should be able to get under 3% on a 20 year loan.

Sharp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Sharp » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:30 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:16 am
Sharp wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:35 pm
Quote review request:

Have a refinance quote from Loan Depot for $334k at 20 years and 3.25%. Note that we plan on selling/moving in roughly 4 years.

This rate beats a LenderFI quote I received, and there are no closing costs (for either quote), but Loan Depot is doing one thing different: within that $334k, they've included a $5000 allowance for taxes/insurance, and the rest comes to me at closing (estimated cash back around $2500). Said another way, I only owe $329k on my current mortgage, and they want me to finance an extra $5k.

I don't really care either whether that 5k is financed or not, but wanted to know if that was typical practice/acceptable to the Boglehead community?

I have no problem pre-paying for taxes/insurance out of pocket, and because we'll probably be moving in 4ish years, I would not be paying paying 20 years worth of interest on that 5k.

Does this seem to be a good deal?

Appreciate any feedback.
We need a breakdown of the loan to tell you whether its a good deal or not.

Please give us the amounts in the loan estimate:

Loan Amount: 334631

Interest Rate: 3.25%

A: 1595
B: 112
C: 970
D: 2677
E: 897
F: 149
G: 2377
H: N/A
I: 3373
J: 2496 (D+I of 6050, minus 3554 lender credit)

Calculated Cash to Close
Loan Amount: 334631
Total Closing Costs: -2496
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments: -329631
Estimated Cash to borrower: 2504
Estimated Closing Costs Financed: 2496


In general, unless you’re tight on cash, adding onto your loan is not preferable. Also, and rates may have ticked up I’m not 100% sure, you should be able to get under 3% on a 20 year loan.
Filled in values, asking for quote review- thank you!

3of10
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am

I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.

mx711yam
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:51 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mx711yam » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:20 am

Better has literally given up on my loan, and I was passed to 3 different people in 3 days. By far the worst loan experience I have ever had. Every time I call in, it puts me to a different call center where they try to find my rep and they're not available, only to be contacted later in the day by another person. Glad some people had good luck with them, I certainly have not.

Loandepot has been very responsive and I have a direct line to the rep. However, their initial quote was not competitive with my local lender so I'm sending him a LE to see if he can match it.

armeliusc
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by armeliusc » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:22 am

Jcwcable wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
I must be doing something wrong based on what I’m seeing here. Now I should be able to get the amex credit (I hope) but when I pulled LenderFI rates tonight a 30 year loan ($202k) came back with the best rate of 2.5% but with $7,769 in points/credits. It’s similar from credible 2.5% but with $8,542 in loan costs, and the best that better.com is offering is 2.75% for $6,654.

Is it because a loan of 202k is too small? Credit score is upwards of 780. Current loan is $202700 with 25 years remaining at 4%. Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated!
What I see is similar to yours from LenderFI and Better.com. I have rate-locked with Sebonic about three weeks ago with 15-year fixed at 2.74% with ~$2800 closing costs for ~$232K loan and it's been very slow going. The closing date is still on 7/24.

Some people seems to have gotten better, with about 2.5% 15-year with no closing costs, but I just don't see how I could get there. Some also reported much faster closing experience.

I applied to better.com, and told the loan officer that their closing costs is way higher than the one I have, and he's not replying to me after two days :confused

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am

3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV

DrGrnTum
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am

Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am

DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Yes, the main thing is.. do whatever it takes to get a LE from a competitor lender. So if that means. Applying, credit check, giving your left kidney. Do it.

Don’t get hung up on credit checks. If the bureau sees multiple checks in a certain amount of time. You won’t get ding for every single one. To my understanding

3of10
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:19 am

Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
Thanks Familyman2012. So, it looks like the plan is to bypass the Amex Concierge website, and go with the regular Better website.

3of10
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am

DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Thanks DrGrnTum. Did you bring up the Amex $2500 bonus only after you received the match minus $1,000?

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:31 am

3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:19 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
Thanks Familyman2012. So, it looks like the plan is to bypass the Amex Concierge website, and go with the regular Better website.
I’m not sure what way is better. Just letting you know what i did and what worked for me.

3of10
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 am

Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am
Yes, the main thing is.. do whatever it takes to get a LE from a competitor lender. So if that means. Applying, credit check, giving your left kidney. Do it.

Don’t get hung up on credit checks. If the bureau sees multiple checks in a certain amount of time. You won’t get ding for every single one. To my understanding
Yes, I've found that getting the LE is inconsistent with the lenders. I've tried to get a rate quote before having them provide the LE to see if it was in the range I'm looking for. but some of them just try to wait until I get their LE in order to see their rates. For example, LenderFi sent me their LE electronically (email), while Loan Depot said they will mail it, which will take forever. I'd like to know how others have dealt with going back and forth with Loan Depot if the LE is always mailed out, unless things are done electronically after the first mailing?

Northpointe did provide written quotes for me to review, to see if I would want to get an LE. Unfortunately, they had the highest rates around for a 30 yr fixed $300K+ refi with low costs (3.125%). The lenders are also asking for way more info than is required to get an LE. I've had to push back on that issue, and remind them of what is required (govt) for them to provide a LE.

DrGrnTum
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:55 am

3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Thanks DrGrnTum. Did you bring up the Amex $2500 bonus only after you received the match minus $1,000?
Yes, once I got back Better's match I inquired about the Amex deal and they confirmed that it would be included in my loan.

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 am

DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:55 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Thanks DrGrnTum. Did you bring up the Amex $2500 bonus only after you received the match minus $1,000?
Yes, once I got back Better's match I inquired about the Amex deal and they confirmed that it would be included in my loan.
Also, make sure your Amex card is eligible. I have the Everyday blue. This is from the FAQ:

Eligible Cards include personal consumer American Express Cards issued by a U.S. banking subsidiary of American Express that are not canceled.

Note: Prepaid Cards and products, American Express Corporate Cards, American Express Small Business Cards and American Express-branded Cards or account numbers issued by other financial institutions are not eligible. Additional Card Members on your Account are not eligible for this offer.

DrGrnTum
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:22 am

Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:55 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am


I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Thanks DrGrnTum. Did you bring up the Amex $2500 bonus only after you received the match minus $1,000?
Yes, once I got back Better's match I inquired about the Amex deal and they confirmed that it would be included in my loan.
Also, make sure your Amex card is eligible. I have the Everyday blue. This is from the FAQ:

Eligible Cards include personal consumer American Express Cards issued by a U.S. banking subsidiary of American Express that are not canceled.

Note: Prepaid Cards and products, American Express Corporate Cards, American Express Small Business Cards and American Express-branded Cards or account numbers issued by other financial institutions are not eligible. Additional Card Members on your Account are not eligible for this offer.
Another thing that has been pointed out in this tread.
Make sure the email you use to login to Better's site is the same as what is active on the account for the Amex card.
I had issue with this, but I think I have it worked out.

Good luck.

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:23 am

DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:22 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:55 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am


I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Thanks DrGrnTum. Did you bring up the Amex $2500 bonus only after you received the match minus $1,000?
Yes, once I got back Better's match I inquired about the Amex deal and they confirmed that it would be included in my loan.
Also, make sure your Amex card is eligible. I have the Everyday blue. This is from the FAQ:

Eligible Cards include personal consumer American Express Cards issued by a U.S. banking subsidiary of American Express that are not canceled.

Note: Prepaid Cards and products, American Express Corporate Cards, American Express Small Business Cards and American Express-branded Cards or account numbers issued by other financial institutions are not eligible. Additional Card Members on your Account are not eligible for this offer.
Another thing that has been pointed out in this tread.
Make sure the email you use to login to Better's site is the same as what is active on the account for the Amex card.
I had issue with this, but I think I have it worked out.

Good luck.
Yes, good reminder to anyone new reading this.

psychoslowmatic
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:34 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psychoslowmatic » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:38 am

Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I wanted to pay some points to get the rate down, but what I found is that Better's rate sheet doesn't go very high in points. I was getting quotes on an investment loan at 3.125% but better said they needed a rate showing on their sheet in order to match. So I had to go back to the other lenders and ask for a 3.375% LE.

Better matches by taking their default rate sheet for the day and applying a credit to get their costs for the rate you've provided to beat the other institution's costs, but the offset is applied to all their rates. Flip through and take screenshots because you're locking the whole table but you can't see the other options once locked.

Also this was pretty annoying, I'm on East Coast time and provided them with an LE at about 10am EST. They didn't get back to me until 10pm EST and said the matched rate was only good until 11:59pm PST that day. Good thing I didn't go to bed early.

Familyman2012
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:53 am

psychoslowmatic wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I wanted to pay some points to get the rate down, but what I found is that Better's rate sheet doesn't go very high in points. I was getting quotes on an investment loan at 3.125% but better said they needed a rate showing on their sheet in order to match. So I had to go back to the other lenders and ask for a 3.375% LE.

Better matches by taking their default rate sheet for the day and applying a credit to get their costs for the rate you've provided to beat the other institution's costs, but the offset is applied to all their rates. Flip through and take screenshots because you're locking the whole table but you can't see the other options once locked.

Also this was pretty annoying, I'm on East Coast time and provided them with an LE at about 10am EST. They didn't get back to me until 10pm EST and said the matched rate was only good until 11:59pm PST that day. Good thing I didn't go to bed early.
I emailed the LE to my rep at 8pm on Friday. I’m in PT zone. I didn’t expect him to get back to me till Monday. He calls me at 9pm PT saying he sent me an email with a beating offer. But the offer was only good till midnight. Not sure if it’s a scared tactic. But it got my wife and i a little frantic to make a quick decision. Good thing I was up late that night when I’m usually getting ready for bed.

BarDownHockey
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:37 am

Hi all, I'd really appreciate help on the following loan options. I currently have a 3.75%, $780k loan remaining with 70% LTV. I've been shopping jumbos really hard and have it down to the following three options. All options do not have an escrow requirement (yay!) and the closing costs would roll into the loan balance:

1. 30 year, 3.375%, $1,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,460 per month (~$400 per month decrease)
2. 30 year, 3.125%, $3,100 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,370 per month (~$500 per month decrease)
3. 30 year, 2.875%, $7,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,260 per month (~$600 per month decrease)

Option 1 is the lowest in closing costs, which is typically what boggleheads recommend. But for a loan my size, I feel like the additional $1,500 in closing costs to get to option 2 is a no brainer. It would get me a better interest rate and that means I'd recover that additional $1,500 pretty quickly. So I'm very much leaning option 2.

Option 3 is intriguing. The additional $4,500 in closing costs is purely paying points to get to the 2.875 rate. I paid points on my first mortgage (only a couple years ago) and I'm regretting that now as I'm looking to refi now, so I lost that gamble. But 2.875% on a jumbo (above the conforming loan limits) almost feels like an option that may not exist again, or anytime soon. Am I wrong for thinking that it might be better to go option 3, and not need to keep looking at the market to refi?

Either way, I think option 2 or 3 is a huge win, so I'd love to hear if there's a compelling reason to go one way or the other. Thanks in advance!

wanabecmper
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wanabecmper » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:46 am

Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:55 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am


I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
Thanks DrGrnTum. Did you bring up the Amex $2500 bonus only after you received the match minus $1,000?
Yes, once I got back Better's match I inquired about the Amex deal and they confirmed that it would be included in my loan.
Also, make sure your Amex card is eligible. I have the Everyday blue. This is from the FAQ:

Eligible Cards include personal consumer American Express Cards issued by a U.S. banking subsidiary of American Express that are not canceled.

Note: Prepaid Cards and products, American Express Corporate Cards, American Express Small Business Cards and American Express-branded Cards or account numbers issued by other financial institutions are not eligible. Additional Card Members on your Account are not eligible for this offer.
Thank you everyone for all of the informative posts on this topic. In reference to the above quote, I'm having a hard time determining what 'American Express-branded Cards' means. Does anyone know if the Delta SkyMiles card is eligible for the $2500 credit?

ChiKid24
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

BarDownHockey wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:37 am
Hi all, I'd really appreciate help on the following loan options. I currently have a 3.75%, $780k loan remaining with 70% LTV. I've been shopping jumbos really hard and have it down to the following three options. All options do not have an escrow requirement (yay!) and the closing costs would roll into the loan balance:

1. 30 year, 3.375%, $1,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,460 per month (~$400 per month decrease)
2. 30 year, 3.125%, $3,100 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,370 per month (~$500 per month decrease)
3. 30 year, 2.875%, $7,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,260 per month (~$600 per month decrease)

Option 1 is the lowest in closing costs, which is typically what boggleheads recommend. But for a loan my size, I feel like the additional $1,500 in closing costs to get to option 2 is a no brainer. It would get me a better interest rate and that means I'd recover that additional $1,500 pretty quickly. So I'm very much leaning option 2.

Option 3 is intriguing. The additional $4,500 in closing costs is purely paying points to get to the 2.875 rate. I paid points on my first mortgage (only a couple years ago) and I'm regretting that now as I'm looking to refi now, so I lost that gamble. But 2.875% on a jumbo (above the conforming loan limits) almost feels like an option that may not exist again, or anytime soon. Am I wrong for thinking that it might be better to go option 3, and not need to keep looking at the market to refi?

Either way, I think option 2 or 3 is a huge win, so I'd love to hear if there's a compelling reason to go one way or the other. Thanks in advance!
What if rates continue to fall and in 6 months you are able to refinance into a 30 year at 2.5% at no cost? Then the additional $1,500 you paid for option 2 is wasted. I personally always look for a no cost refi where lender credits cover all closing costs (aside from prepaids and escrow if needed). That way I never have remorse about going through another refi down the road.

Separately, have you considered paying down your principal to get it below a jumbo? You generally can get more lenders to compete which will lead to better pricing. Not sure where you are, but in California jumbos start at $765,600 so you would be out less than $15k to get below the threshold and it would go straight to building more equity rather than a wasted cost. I'm just below that level and got Better to refi at 3.0% with a $5k lender credit that more than covered the $2.5k closing costs. I've seen others do even better.

BarDownHockey
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:04 pm

ChiKid24 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am
BarDownHockey wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:37 am
Hi all, I'd really appreciate help on the following loan options. I currently have a 3.75%, $780k loan remaining with 70% LTV. I've been shopping jumbos really hard and have it down to the following three options. All options do not have an escrow requirement (yay!) and the closing costs would roll into the loan balance:

1. 30 year, 3.375%, $1,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,460 per month (~$400 per month decrease)
2. 30 year, 3.125%, $3,100 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,370 per month (~$500 per month decrease)
3. 30 year, 2.875%, $7,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,260 per month (~$600 per month decrease)

Option 1 is the lowest in closing costs, which is typically what boggleheads recommend. But for a loan my size, I feel like the additional $1,500 in closing costs to get to option 2 is a no brainer. It would get me a better interest rate and that means I'd recover that additional $1,500 pretty quickly. So I'm very much leaning option 2.

Option 3 is intriguing. The additional $4,500 in closing costs is purely paying points to get to the 2.875 rate. I paid points on my first mortgage (only a couple years ago) and I'm regretting that now as I'm looking to refi now, so I lost that gamble. But 2.875% on a jumbo (above the conforming loan limits) almost feels like an option that may not exist again, or anytime soon. Am I wrong for thinking that it might be better to go option 3, and not need to keep looking at the market to refi?

Either way, I think option 2 or 3 is a huge win, so I'd love to hear if there's a compelling reason to go one way or the other. Thanks in advance!
What if rates continue to fall and in 6 months you are able to refinance into a 30 year at 2.5% at no cost? Then the additional $1,500 you paid for option 2 is wasted. I personally always look for a no cost refi where lender credits cover all closing costs (aside from prepaids and escrow if needed). That way I never have remorse about going through another refi down the road.

Separately, have you considered paying down your principal to get it below a jumbo? You generally can get more lenders to compete which will lead to better pricing. Not sure where you are, but in California jumbos start at $765,600 so you would be out less than $15k to get below the threshold and it would go straight to building more equity rather than a wasted cost. I'm just below that level and got Better to refi at 3.0% with a $5k lender credit that more than covered the $2.5k closing costs. I've seen others do even better.
Thanks. In my county, the conforming limit is $690,000, so I'd need to pay down $90,000 just to get into the more competitive "non-jumbo" market. Tying up that much cash in my house right now isn't something I'd like to do. The jumbo market is incredibly tight right now. I've only found 3 lenders able to even offer options (one of which I weeded out because the rate they offered was 4.75%). The other 10 I've called are not even offering jumbo refi's. So I'm confident these offers are as pretty close to the best I can find right now. As far as I can tell, there are no "no cost" jumbo refi's at the moment. Rates might continue to drop, which is why I'm hesitant to go with option 3. But the additional $1,500 in closing costs to drop 0.25% down to 3.125% seems way too good to pass up for a high $ jumbo. Especially when an actual 0.25% drop would cost me about $4,500 in points (i.e. option 2 to 3).

FootballFan5548
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FootballFan5548 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:17 pm

Can someone explain prepaids to me?

I'm working with a broker.
Original loan 3.375% on 780k 4 years ago. I have paid extra principal and have $677k remaining on loan. Payment is 3448/month

New refi option - 3% 30 year, no fees/no cost. Lender credit matches up dollar for dollar on all costs, (title, application fee, waived appraisal). The monthly payment would be roughly 2880, saving me $568 per month which is great.

My question, is the above is based on a loan balance of $683,000. My current principal is $677k. What is making up that extra $6k in difference between current principal and new principal?

My broker was saying something about per-diem interest from my existing loan and new interest for the new loan or something like that... but I can't come up with the 6k difference and feel like i'm getting ripped off.

I was hoping no cost/no fee meant my existing loan with balance of 677k goes away (gets paid off), and new loan with balance of 677k starts at lower rate.
Can someone explain?

mt2k
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:23 pm

BarDownHockey wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:04 pm
ChiKid24 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am
BarDownHockey wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:37 am
Hi all, I'd really appreciate help on the following loan options. I currently have a 3.75%, $780k loan remaining with 70% LTV. I've been shopping jumbos really hard and have it down to the following three options. All options do not have an escrow requirement (yay!) and the closing costs would roll into the loan balance:

1. 30 year, 3.375%, $1,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,460 per month (~$400 per month decrease)
2. 30 year, 3.125%, $3,100 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,370 per month (~$500 per month decrease)
3. 30 year, 2.875%, $7,600 in closing costs (after lender credit and excluding prepaids) - new payment is $3,260 per month (~$600 per month decrease)

Option 1 is the lowest in closing costs, which is typically what boggleheads recommend. But for a loan my size, I feel like the additional $1,500 in closing costs to get to option 2 is a no brainer. It would get me a better interest rate and that means I'd recover that additional $1,500 pretty quickly. So I'm very much leaning option 2.

Option 3 is intriguing. The additional $4,500 in closing costs is purely paying points to get to the 2.875 rate. I paid points on my first mortgage (only a couple years ago) and I'm regretting that now as I'm looking to refi now, so I lost that gamble. But 2.875% on a jumbo (above the conforming loan limits) almost feels like an option that may not exist again, or anytime soon. Am I wrong for thinking that it might be better to go option 3, and not need to keep looking at the market to refi?

Either way, I think option 2 or 3 is a huge win, so I'd love to hear if there's a compelling reason to go one way or the other. Thanks in advance!
What if rates continue to fall and in 6 months you are able to refinance into a 30 year at 2.5% at no cost? Then the additional $1,500 you paid for option 2 is wasted. I personally always look for a no cost refi where lender credits cover all closing costs (aside from prepaids and escrow if needed). That way I never have remorse about going through another refi down the road.

Separately, have you considered paying down your principal to get it below a jumbo? You generally can get more lenders to compete which will lead to better pricing. Not sure where you are, but in California jumbos start at $765,600 so you would be out less than $15k to get below the threshold and it would go straight to building more equity rather than a wasted cost. I'm just below that level and got Better to refi at 3.0% with a $5k lender credit that more than covered the $2.5k closing costs. I've seen others do even better.
Thanks. In my county, the conforming limit is $690,000, so I'd need to pay down $90,000 just to get into the more competitive "non-jumbo" market. Tying up that much cash in my house right now isn't something I'd like to do. The jumbo market is incredibly tight right now. I've only found 3 lenders able to even offer options (one of which I weeded out because the rate they offered was 4.75%). The other 10 I've called are not even offering jumbo refi's. So I'm confident these offers are as pretty close to the best I can find right now. As far as I can tell, there are no "no cost" jumbo refi's at the moment. Rates might continue to drop, which is why I'm hesitant to go with option 3. But the additional $1,500 in closing costs to drop 0.25% down to 3.125% seems way too good to pass up for a high $ jumbo. Especially when an actual 0.25% drop would cost me about $4,500 in points (i.e. option 2 to 3).
In my opinion you should go with option2. It is just $1,500 additional that you can breakeven in a year or so..
Paying an extra $4,500 for an additional 0.25% rate drop is not that appealing specially if the jumbo mkt gets better and you do another refinancing in a year or so..

Berean
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:30 pm

DrGrnTum wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
Familyman2012 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.
I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV
I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.
DrGrTum: You got a great deal from Better. May I ask the amount of your loan and the date you locked?

ChiKid24
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:33 pm

FootballFan5548 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:17 pm
Can someone explain prepaids to me?

I'm working with a broker.
Original loan 3.375% on 780k 4 years ago. I have paid extra principal and have $677k remaining on loan. Payment is 3448/month

New refi option - 3% 30 year, no fees/no cost. Lender credit matches up dollar for dollar on all costs, (title, application fee, waived appraisal). The monthly payment would be roughly 2880, saving me $568 per month which is great.

My question, is the above is based on a loan balance of $683,000. My current principal is $677k. What is making up that extra $6k in difference between current principal and new principal?

My broker was saying something about per-diem interest from my existing loan and new interest for the new loan or something like that... but I can't come up with the 6k difference and feel like i'm getting ripped off.

I was hoping no cost/no fee meant my existing loan with balance of 677k goes away (gets paid off), and new loan with balance of 677k starts at lower rate.
Can someone explain?
Your $677k is the remaining principal today. Your monthly payment covers principal and interest over the past month. So between your last payment and when your refi is complete your old loan will be accruing interest. So your payoff on the $677k is actually higher than $677k. My current loan is at Wells and you can actually go online and pull a payoff quote if you provide an estimated closing date.

Additionally, your new loan won't have a first payment until at 1-2 months after close. Since your monthly payments on the new loan contain 1 month of interest, anything over 1 month will need to be paid as a pre-paid interest amount.

Finally, are they doing any escrow of property taxes or homeowners insurance? If so, that is also something they could be rolling into the new loan. You are welcome to pay these with cash at close if you don't want to roll in the costs to the loan.

Berean
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:42 pm

Jcwcable wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
I must be doing something wrong based on what I’m seeing here. Now I should be able to get the amex credit (I hope) but when I pulled LenderFI rates tonight a 30 year loan ($202k) came back with the best rate of 2.5% but with $7,769 in points/credits. It’s similar from credible 2.5% but with $8,542 in loan costs, and the best that better.com is offering is 2.75% for $6,654.

Is it because a loan of 202k is too small? Credit score is upwards of 780. Current loan is $202700 with 25 years remaining at 4%. Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated!
If it is any consolation, I am having the same issue, only worse. The outstanding balance I am trying to refi is only $150,000. In my initial conversations with two lenders, each told me that my amount was too low to merit their best terms. But I got an LE from another lender, forwarded it on to the others, and one offered to match it. I am trying to get an even better LE from a fourth lender and shop it to the other three. If you press on with this same strategy, I bet you too will generate much more favorable terms. You got nothing to lose but a few hours of your time.

Jags4186
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm

FootballFan5548 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:17 pm
Can someone explain prepaids to me?

I'm working with a broker.
Original loan 3.375% on 780k 4 years ago. I have paid extra principal and have $677k remaining on loan. Payment is 3448/month

New refi option - 3% 30 year, no fees/no cost. Lender credit matches up dollar for dollar on all costs, (title, application fee, waived appraisal). The monthly payment would be roughly 2880, saving me $568 per month which is great.

My question, is the above is based on a loan balance of $683,000. My current principal is $677k. What is making up that extra $6k in difference between current principal and new principal?

My broker was saying something about per-diem interest from my existing loan and new interest for the new loan or something like that... but I can't come up with the 6k difference and feel like i'm getting ripped off.

I was hoping no cost/no fee meant my existing loan with balance of 677k goes away (gets paid off), and new loan with balance of 677k starts at lower rate.
Can someone explain?
Your loan balance and your payoff balance are not the same. Very simplistically, let's pretend you have $100,00 loan with a $1000 payment and $500 of that payment is interest and $500 of that payment is principal. When you log into your bank website on June 1 it says "$100,000 balance". If you log in on June 30, the balance is $100,000. But you've accrued $500 in interest, and when you make your July 1 payment, $500 will pay that interest accrual and $500 will pay down the loan. Now your balance shows $99,500.

Depending on the day you close you will accrue interest that needs to be paid. If your new loan is paying off the $100,000 balance is on June 15 your payoff isn't $100,000 it is $100,250 (1/2 a month worth of interest).

Additionally, since mortgage payments are always due on the 1st and since they are paid in arrears, you will pay a partial month of interest on the new loan. So if you close on June 15, you need to pay off $100,250 and you will also need to pay for 15 days of interest on the new loan. Then your first new month begins July 1 and you'll make your first regular payment on the new loan on August 1.

There also may be some overlap where you are paying interest on 2 loans at once. Let's say you get funding for your new loan on the 15th of the month, but the old loan isn't paid off until the 18th of the month. You'll pay interest on both loans for 3 days.


There are also escrow prepaids which include home owners insurance premiums and property taxes. Depending on your taxes and insurance costs are those costs could be substantial.

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