I'm Buying a Boat...

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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Sunny Sarkar
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Sunny Sarkar » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:03 pm

I'm Buying a Boat..
My condolences :wink:
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle

bstewie
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by bstewie » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:04 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:01 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:49 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pm


We have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costs
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat (being broad here with cleaning)
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care

Which boat make and model and what dollars have your expended to come up with your rule of thumbs?
Call it ~36’-42’ liveaboards - including slip fees - that are 15+yr old. More than moderate use by recreational standards (500+ h/yr)

PS - we are derailing from OP but I am happy to continue to explain my position
You are a full time liveaboard and are comparing those costs to a 21' runaround recreational boat?
Why would you even post such a comparison?
Even with that comparison why are you spending up to 50% of value each year in costs?
What is a drive shaft on a 40' powerboat? Are you referring to the shafts on a straight drive inboard? Shafting, cutlass bearings, props, and struts are all fairly easy to avoid problems and/or handle in larger boats but in any case we are talking about average costs per season not one poor year.

We have had 3 used boats above 45' - all with twin diesels that traveled more than 1,000 nmiles per year and often towing a 19 or 24' larger RIB. These boats also had another RIB on the boat deck and we typically would have slept on the boat more than 60 nights per season.
We do not calculate vacations, food, drinks,and entertainment in our boats maintenance categories which we have always kept in quickbooks.
see above: im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement / disconnect

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whodidntante
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by whodidntante » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:15 pm

I would get rid of the cash in taxable if your taxable account is large (you didn't say).

Option 3 if you can sell without paying taxes. Otherwise, transfer assets to IB and take a margin loan. You could even consider paying it down if the rate gets high enough to think about that.

Or you can go with option whodidntante, which is use someone else's boat and pay rent in jokes, beer, and crazy stories.

smitcat
Posts: 5811
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:19 pm

bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:04 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:01 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:49 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm


- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costs
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat (being broad here with cleaning)
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care

Which boat make and model and what dollars have your expended to come up with your rule of thumbs?
Call it ~36’-42’ liveaboards - including slip fees - that are 15+yr old. More than moderate use by recreational standards (500+ h/yr)

PS - we are derailing from OP but I am happy to continue to explain my position
You are a full time liveaboard and are comparing those costs to a 21' runaround recreational boat?
Why would you even post such a comparison?
Even with that comparison why are you spending up to 50% of value each year in costs?
What is a drive shaft on a 40' powerboat? Are you referring to the shafts on a straight drive inboard? Shafting, cutlass bearings, props, and struts are all fairly easy to avoid problems and/or handle in larger boats but in any case we are talking about average costs per season not one poor year.

We have had 3 used boats above 45' - all with twin diesels that traveled more than 1,000 nmiles per year and often towing a 19 or 24' larger RIB. These boats also had another RIB on the boat deck and we typically would have slept on the boat more than 60 nights per season.
We do not calculate vacations, food, drinks,and entertainment in our boats maintenance categories which we have always kept in quickbooks.
see above: im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement / disconnect
"im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement"
You are a liveaboard and a cruiser who is slipped at an expensive marina and include all costs associated with living there to boating.
I would guess your utility fees are very large and included as well since you are living there.
If that is true surely that is fine but it has little relationship to a 21' rec boat likely trailered on this post.

bstewie
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by bstewie » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:25 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:19 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:04 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:01 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:49 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pm



Which boat make and model and what dollars have your expended to come up with your rule of thumbs?
Call it ~36’-42’ liveaboards - including slip fees - that are 15+yr old. More than moderate use by recreational standards (500+ h/yr)

PS - we are derailing from OP but I am happy to continue to explain my position
You are a full time liveaboard and are comparing those costs to a 21' runaround recreational boat?
Why would you even post such a comparison?
Even with that comparison why are you spending up to 50% of value each year in costs?
What is a drive shaft on a 40' powerboat? Are you referring to the shafts on a straight drive inboard? Shafting, cutlass bearings, props, and struts are all fairly easy to avoid problems and/or handle in larger boats but in any case we are talking about average costs per season not one poor year.

We have had 3 used boats above 45' - all with twin diesels that traveled more than 1,000 nmiles per year and often towing a 19 or 24' larger RIB. These boats also had another RIB on the boat deck and we typically would have slept on the boat more than 60 nights per season.
We do not calculate vacations, food, drinks,and entertainment in our boats maintenance categories which we have always kept in quickbooks.
see above: im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement / disconnect
"im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement"
You are a liveaboard and a cruiser who is slipped at an expensive marina and include all costs associated with living there to boating.
I would guess your utility fees are very large and included as well since you are living there.
If that is true surely that is fine but it has little relationship to a 21' rec boat likely trailered on this post.
based on my experience... a 21’ rec boat would be extremely common to slip in my area...

you must be real fun at parties

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StevieG72
Posts: 1073
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by StevieG72 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm

Pay cash, enjoy the boat. Do you already have a tow vehicle?
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.

il0kin
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by il0kin » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:42 pm

You've probably already figured out the boat, but look into deck boats - aluminum hull and outboards. Much less expensive to maintain than comparable fiberglass inboards, just as fun/fast. If I were to buy a family boat, that is what I'd be buying.

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Ralph Furley
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:42 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Ralph Furley » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:15 pm

A wise man once told me, "If you have to finance a toy, you can't afford the toy." You can afford this toy. I agree with the others - pay cash, replenish the cash from future earnings while you are enjoying the boat.

Have fun!

Trader Joe
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:38 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Trader Joe » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:46 pm

techieguy wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm
I'm getting ready to buy a boat. I've made up my mind in terms of the purchase. This is a way of life for my family. It's what we do for recreation.

Financial Status:

Age: 35, Married, One Child

Desired Retirement Age: 55

Net Worth: 1 Million (80% Investments, 20% Equity)

Income: 250k Per Year

Average Yearly Savings: 33% Gross

Monthly Expenses: $3,750 give or take a bit

Debt: Primary Residence
11 Years Left on Mortgage @ 159k

Emergency Fund: 31k

Boat: 2008 Sea Ray, 21 ft Runabout, 300 hrs. Great shape.

Purchase Price: 24k

How should I buy the boat?

a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?

b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?

c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?

d. A method I'm not thinking of?

Thanks TechieGuy
Pay cash. Enjoy your new boat.

tibbitts
Posts: 10528
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by tibbitts » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:53 pm

il0kin wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:42 pm
You've probably already figured out the boat, but look into deck boats - aluminum hull and outboards. Much less expensive to maintain than comparable fiberglass inboards, just as fun/fast. If I were to buy a family boat, that is what I'd be buying.
I've had both fiberglass and aluminum - not seeing the difference in maintenance. Outboard maintenance used to be simpler in the 2-stroke pre-mix era - not so sure the gap hasn't mostly closed now.

Big Worm
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:20 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Big Worm » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:59 pm

I have a 2003 Sea Ray bowrider that I have owned for the last 5 years. Great "starter" boat. Only maintenance is paying a guy to winterize it. I could probably do it myself but I just don't feel like fussing with it.

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mrspock
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Location: Vulcan

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by mrspock » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:01 pm

Without question, cash. I'd say consensus around here is you don't finance "toys", and I think a boat qualifies as such. Do you have a lake side cabin or house? Or is this boat going to be put in the water as needed?

If the former it's probably not a bad purchase, if the latter, my experience is it's such a hassle to do this every time you want to use it, people eventually lose interest and just let the boat sit around and rot. Typically 1-2 years after buying it.... in fact, buy the boat from one of those people, if you aren't already :D .

vested1
Posts: 2094
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by vested1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 am

We have 5 boats. 2019 16' bass boat with a 2 stroke 50 hp outboard and a trolling motor (20k), 20' 2020 pontoon boat with a 2 stroke 90 hp outboard (30k), 16' 20 year old 60 pound canoe, two 16', 15 year old single kayaks, 60 pounds each. We have our own covered dock with a slip and a new boat lift, on a lake. We get very little snow in the winter so no need to trailer the pontoon, just leave it on the lift. We retrofitted the 24' x 24' dock, which has a 65' gangplank, with synthetic boards, replaced the shoring cables with stainless, and installed a kayak/canoe launching platform. All in 72k, not including cost for purchase of the canoe and kayaks. We would do it all again in a heartbeat.

To the OP, pay cash out of taxable or EF. At your age, with a child, the memorable experiences available to you with a boat are irreplaceable.

I would suggest adding a gas treatment to the fuel in the winter to keep the fuel ready to use in the spring. Like any vehicle, adhere to the maintenance schedule and address issues when they arise, including preventive maintenance. Keep the boat on a lift when not in use (if you have a lift) or trailered. Protect the interior of the boat with a quality cover when not in use and regularly treat the cover for waterproofing (yearly if exposed to the weather). Run the engine periodically, even in times of little use. Trickle charge all marine batteries with a solar trickle charger to maintain the battery (marine batteries, if fully discharged, need to be replaced).

Maintenance costs, maybe 5% on our power boats, if that. Just replaced the shock cords on the kayaks, $20, no other maintenance other than upgrades for fishing. The canoe (Royalex composite material) has had zero maintenance, but several upgrades, like kevlar/resin skid pads on the bow and stern for beaching and lowered cane seats for stability, self-installed.

In my opinion if you have to count the pennies involved in owning boats, don't do it. If you can afford it, indulge yourself. You only live once. Don't listen to the naysayers, have fun.
Last edited by vested1 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

smitcat
Posts: 5811
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:09 am

bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:25 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:19 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:04 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:01 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:49 pm


Call it ~36’-42’ liveaboards - including slip fees - that are 15+yr old. More than moderate use by recreational standards (500+ h/yr)

PS - we are derailing from OP but I am happy to continue to explain my position
You are a full time liveaboard and are comparing those costs to a 21' runaround recreational boat?
Why would you even post such a comparison?
Even with that comparison why are you spending up to 50% of value each year in costs?
What is a drive shaft on a 40' powerboat? Are you referring to the shafts on a straight drive inboard? Shafting, cutlass bearings, props, and struts are all fairly easy to avoid problems and/or handle in larger boats but in any case we are talking about average costs per season not one poor year.

We have had 3 used boats above 45' - all with twin diesels that traveled more than 1,000 nmiles per year and often towing a 19 or 24' larger RIB. These boats also had another RIB on the boat deck and we typically would have slept on the boat more than 60 nights per season.
We do not calculate vacations, food, drinks,and entertainment in our boats maintenance categories which we have always kept in quickbooks.
see above: im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement / disconnect
"im clearly considering the %s i tossed out as average annual cost of ownership, hence the disagreement"
You are a liveaboard and a cruiser who is slipped at an expensive marina and include all costs associated with living there to boating.
I would guess your utility fees are very large and included as well since you are living there.
If that is true surely that is fine but it has little relationship to a 21' rec boat likely trailered on this post.
based on my experience... a 21’ rec boat would be extremely common to slip in my area...

you must be real fun at parties
"based on my experience... a 21’ rec boat would be extremely common to slip in my area..."
Your area allows full time liveaboards and also is common to have 21' boats slipped - what general area are you in?
Are boating has been done mostly in the NE but we are also familiar with Florida as well.
Based on your posts I would guess that you are not that familiar with boats and their mechanical systems - that can easily lead to the spending of additional dollars over time.

smitcat
Posts: 5811
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am

vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 am
We have 5 boats. 2019 16' bass boat with a 2 stroke 50 hp outboard and a trolling motor (20k), 20' 2020 pontoon boat with a 2 stroke 90 hp outboard (30k), 16' 20 year old 60 pound canoe, two 16', 15 year old single kayaks, 60 pounds each. We have our own covered dock with a slip and a new boat lift, on a lake. We get very little snow in the winter so no need to trailer the pontoon, just leave it on the lift. We retrofitted the 20' x 20' dock, which has a 65' gangplank, with synthetic boards, replaced the shoring cables with stainless, and installed a kayak/canoe launching platform. All in 72k, not including cost for purchase of the canoe and kayaks. We would do it all again in a heartbeat.

To the OP, pay cash out of taxable or EF. At your age, with a child, the memorable experiences available to you with a boat are irreplaceable.

I would suggest adding a gas treatment to the fuel in the winter to keep the fuel ready to use in the spring. Like any vehicle, adhere to the maintenance schedule and address issues when they arise, including preventive maintenance. Keep the boat on a lift when not in use (if you have a lift) or trailered. Protect the interior of the boat with a quality cover when not in use and regularly treat the cover for waterproofing (yearly if exposed to the weather). Run the engine periodically, even in times of little use. Trickle charge all marine batteries with a solar trickle charger to maintain the battery (marine batteries, if fully discharged, need to be replaced).

Maintenance costs, maybe 5% on our power boats, if that. Just replaced the shock cords on the kayaks, $20, no other maintenance other than upgrades for fishing. The canoe (Royalex composite material) has had zero maintenance, but several upgrades, like kevlar/resin skid pads on the bow and stern for beaching and lowered cane seats for stability, self-installed.

In my opinion if you have to count the pennies involved in owning boats, don't do it. If you can afford it, indulge yourself. You only live once. Don't listen to the naysayers, have fun.
Great post.

vested1
Posts: 2094
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by vested1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 am

smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am
vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 am
We have 5 boats. 2019 16' bass boat with a 2 stroke 50 hp outboard and a trolling motor (20k), 20' 2020 pontoon boat with a 2 stroke 90 hp outboard (30k), 16' 20 year old 60 pound canoe, two 16', 15 year old single kayaks, 60 pounds each. We have our own covered dock with a slip and a new boat lift, on a lake. We get very little snow in the winter so no need to trailer the pontoon, just leave it on the lift. We retrofitted the 20' x 20' dock, which has a 65' gangplank, with synthetic boards, replaced the shoring cables with stainless, and installed a kayak/canoe launching platform. All in 72k, not including cost for purchase of the canoe and kayaks. We would do it all again in a heartbeat.

To the OP, pay cash out of taxable or EF. At your age, with a child, the memorable experiences available to you with a boat are irreplaceable.

I would suggest adding a gas treatment to the fuel in the winter to keep the fuel ready to use in the spring. Like any vehicle, adhere to the maintenance schedule and address issues when they arise, including preventive maintenance. Keep the boat on a lift when not in use (if you have a lift) or trailered. Protect the interior of the boat with a quality cover when not in use and regularly treat the cover for waterproofing (yearly if exposed to the weather). Run the engine periodically, even in times of little use. Trickle charge all marine batteries with a solar trickle charger to maintain the battery (marine batteries, if fully discharged, need to be replaced).

Maintenance costs, maybe 5% on our power boats, if that. Just replaced the shock cords on the kayaks, $20, no other maintenance other than upgrades for fishing. The canoe (Royalex composite material) has had zero maintenance, but several upgrades, like kevlar/resin skid pads on the bow and stern for beaching and lowered cane seats for stability, self-installed.

In my opinion if you have to count the pennies involved in owning boats, don't do it. If you can afford it, indulge yourself. You only live once. Don't listen to the naysayers, have fun.
Great post.
Thanks, edited the dock size, the covered slip is 20' x 10'. I don't understand some people who feel the need to step on the dreams of others, especially when it involves owning and enjoying boats. We're not just here to count our pennies.

smitcat
Posts: 5811
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:21 am

vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 am
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am
vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 am
We have 5 boats. 2019 16' bass boat with a 2 stroke 50 hp outboard and a trolling motor (20k), 20' 2020 pontoon boat with a 2 stroke 90 hp outboard (30k), 16' 20 year old 60 pound canoe, two 16', 15 year old single kayaks, 60 pounds each. We have our own covered dock with a slip and a new boat lift, on a lake. We get very little snow in the winter so no need to trailer the pontoon, just leave it on the lift. We retrofitted the 20' x 20' dock, which has a 65' gangplank, with synthetic boards, replaced the shoring cables with stainless, and installed a kayak/canoe launching platform. All in 72k, not including cost for purchase of the canoe and kayaks. We would do it all again in a heartbeat.

To the OP, pay cash out of taxable or EF. At your age, with a child, the memorable experiences available to you with a boat are irreplaceable.

I would suggest adding a gas treatment to the fuel in the winter to keep the fuel ready to use in the spring. Like any vehicle, adhere to the maintenance schedule and address issues when they arise, including preventive maintenance. Keep the boat on a lift when not in use (if you have a lift) or trailered. Protect the interior of the boat with a quality cover when not in use and regularly treat the cover for waterproofing (yearly if exposed to the weather). Run the engine periodically, even in times of little use. Trickle charge all marine batteries with a solar trickle charger to maintain the battery (marine batteries, if fully discharged, need to be replaced).

Maintenance costs, maybe 5% on our power boats, if that. Just replaced the shock cords on the kayaks, $20, no other maintenance other than upgrades for fishing. The canoe (Royalex composite material) has had zero maintenance, but several upgrades, like kevlar/resin skid pads on the bow and stern for beaching and lowered cane seats for stability, self-installed.

In my opinion if you have to count the pennies involved in owning boats, don't do it. If you can afford it, indulge yourself. You only live once. Don't listen to the naysayers, have fun.
Great post.
Thanks, edited the dock size, the covered slip is 20' x 10'. I don't understand some people who feel the need to step on the dreams of others, especially when it involves owning and enjoying boats. We're not just here to count our pennies.
"We're not just here to count our pennies."
It appears that some people take great offense if you do not treat money just like they do.
That and the fact that the only purpose of money is to spend it - one way or another.
My theory is if you deny yourself pleasures and even mistakes long enough you reach the point where you really do not want anything at all anymore.
Like most theories - its unsupported and mostly worthless ....
Enjoy your boats, we have had great times on ours.

snowox
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:17 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by snowox » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:27 am

Just make sure the boat is gone through and if all is good Pay cash if you want it or don't buy it. Not sure where peeps are coming up with some of these crazy costs of 10-20% per year for maintenance, the real cost is if you don't use it and enjoy it. I see way to many people that think they want a boat and after one or two times it sits. If your going to use it regularly like we do then it will be worth every penny and if your not spending money on a boat having fun chances are your going to spend money somewhere else. Anyhow good luck.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6699
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by michaeljc70 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:23 am

smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:21 am
vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 am
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am
vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 am
We have 5 boats. 2019 16' bass boat with a 2 stroke 50 hp outboard and a trolling motor (20k), 20' 2020 pontoon boat with a 2 stroke 90 hp outboard (30k), 16' 20 year old 60 pound canoe, two 16', 15 year old single kayaks, 60 pounds each. We have our own covered dock with a slip and a new boat lift, on a lake. We get very little snow in the winter so no need to trailer the pontoon, just leave it on the lift. We retrofitted the 20' x 20' dock, which has a 65' gangplank, with synthetic boards, replaced the shoring cables with stainless, and installed a kayak/canoe launching platform. All in 72k, not including cost for purchase of the canoe and kayaks. We would do it all again in a heartbeat.

To the OP, pay cash out of taxable or EF. At your age, with a child, the memorable experiences available to you with a boat are irreplaceable.

I would suggest adding a gas treatment to the fuel in the winter to keep the fuel ready to use in the spring. Like any vehicle, adhere to the maintenance schedule and address issues when they arise, including preventive maintenance. Keep the boat on a lift when not in use (if you have a lift) or trailered. Protect the interior of the boat with a quality cover when not in use and regularly treat the cover for waterproofing (yearly if exposed to the weather). Run the engine periodically, even in times of little use. Trickle charge all marine batteries with a solar trickle charger to maintain the battery (marine batteries, if fully discharged, need to be replaced).

Maintenance costs, maybe 5% on our power boats, if that. Just replaced the shock cords on the kayaks, $20, no other maintenance other than upgrades for fishing. The canoe (Royalex composite material) has had zero maintenance, but several upgrades, like kevlar/resin skid pads on the bow and stern for beaching and lowered cane seats for stability, self-installed.

In my opinion if you have to count the pennies involved in owning boats, don't do it. If you can afford it, indulge yourself. You only live once. Don't listen to the naysayers, have fun.
Great post.
Thanks, edited the dock size, the covered slip is 20' x 10'. I don't understand some people who feel the need to step on the dreams of others, especially when it involves owning and enjoying boats. We're not just here to count our pennies.
"We're not just here to count our pennies."
It appears that some people take great offense if you do not treat money just like they do.
That and the fact that the only purpose of money is to spend it - one way or another.
My theory is if you deny yourself pleasures and even mistakes long enough you reach the point where you really do not want anything at all anymore.
Like most theories - its unsupported and mostly worthless ....
Enjoy your boats, we have had great times on ours.
Yep. Boats seem to trigger some people. Yet you have people buying very expensive cars, expensive watches and spending $3k a month on groceries on here that barely get a comment.

fatmike91
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:11 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by fatmike91 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:25 am

$24K for a 12 year old boat that is only 21' long??? Oh boy. That feels really expensive to me. Like crazy money.

I just sold my 23' Sea Ray for less than half that (and it was well equipped and well maintained).

Assume $5K per year op-ex. It won't be less unless you do all the wrenching yourself. Over time the Op-Ex is all the matters. The buying price of the boat (and selling price) become irrelevant in the financial model. Do don't pay cash for the boat -- it really doesn't matter. It's irrelevant in the financial cost model.

Run out what $5K operating cost per year does to the cost of ownership and then you'll see a few thousand in depreciation isn't material. It's not like buying a watch (no operating cost), or car (a lot of depreciation and some operating cost) or expensive groceries (you need to eat).

Boating is great fun and relentless money.

/
Last edited by fatmike91 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Presintense
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Presintense » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:27 am

techieguy wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm


How should I buy the boat?

I would do as others have already suggested and pay cash. Then I would get out and enjoy it with friends and family. Be safe and happy boating!
Performance = Potential - Distraction

andypanda
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by andypanda » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:17 am

"$24K for a 12 year old boat that is only 21' long??? Oh boy. That feels really expensive to me. Like crazy money."

I have a small freshwater fishing boat, so my expenses are relatively small. Regular, but small.

I know a guy who recently replaced his tuna boat. He built a house and sold it and then went from Virginia to the gulf to buy an old Post offshore boat for a couple hundred thou give or take. He nursed it back to Virginia. It's a 44'.

Then he built and sold a couple of houses and had two new Caterpillar diesels installed. Call it a couple hundred thou or three if you include all the other upgrades like radar, AC, kitchen, etc. BOAT used to mean Break Out Another Thousand, now it can be a lot more.

He likes to tuna fish. He doesn't run charters, he just likes to fish offshore. It's like Wicked Tuna without all the drama and bad acting. :mrgreen:

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Watty
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Watty » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:41 am

StevieG72 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm
Pay cash, enjoy the boat. Do you already have a tow vehicle?
That is a very good point.

When I briefly looked at buying a camping trailer figuring out your real world towing capacity was a LOT more complicated then just looking up the towing capacity that your truck was rated for so it was easy to think that you would be able to tow more than you really could.

IMO
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by IMO » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:14 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:23 am
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:21 am
vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 am
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am
vested1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 am
We have 5 boats. 2019 16' bass boat with a 2 stroke 50 hp outboard and a trolling motor (20k), 20' 2020 pontoon boat with a 2 stroke 90 hp outboard (30k), 16' 20 year old 60 pound canoe, two 16', 15 year old single kayaks, 60 pounds each. We have our own covered dock with a slip and a new boat lift, on a lake. We get very little snow in the winter so no need to trailer the pontoon, just leave it on the lift. We retrofitted the 20' x 20' dock, which has a 65' gangplank, with synthetic boards, replaced the shoring cables with stainless, and installed a kayak/canoe launching platform. All in 72k, not including cost for purchase of the canoe and kayaks. We would do it all again in a heartbeat.

To the OP, pay cash out of taxable or EF. At your age, with a child, the memorable experiences available to you with a boat are irreplaceable.

I would suggest adding a gas treatment to the fuel in the winter to keep the fuel ready to use in the spring. Like any vehicle, adhere to the maintenance schedule and address issues when they arise, including preventive maintenance. Keep the boat on a lift when not in use (if you have a lift) or trailered. Protect the interior of the boat with a quality cover when not in use and regularly treat the cover for waterproofing (yearly if exposed to the weather). Run the engine periodically, even in times of little use. Trickle charge all marine batteries with a solar trickle charger to maintain the battery (marine batteries, if fully discharged, need to be replaced).

Maintenance costs, maybe 5% on our power boats, if that. Just replaced the shock cords on the kayaks, $20, no other maintenance other than upgrades for fishing. The canoe (Royalex composite material) has had zero maintenance, but several upgrades, like kevlar/resin skid pads on the bow and stern for beaching and lowered cane seats for stability, self-installed.

In my opinion if you have to count the pennies involved in owning boats, don't do it. If you can afford it, indulge yourself. You only live once. Don't listen to the naysayers, have fun.
Great post.
Thanks, edited the dock size, the covered slip is 20' x 10'. I don't understand some people who feel the need to step on the dreams of others, especially when it involves owning and enjoying boats. We're not just here to count our pennies.
"We're not just here to count our pennies."
It appears that some people take great offense if you do not treat money just like they do.
That and the fact that the only purpose of money is to spend it - one way or another.
My theory is if you deny yourself pleasures and even mistakes long enough you reach the point where you really do not want anything at all anymore.
Like most theories - its unsupported and mostly worthless ....
Enjoy your boats, we have had great times on ours.
Yep. Boats seem to trigger some people. Yet you have people buying very expensive cars, expensive watches and spending $3k a month on groceries on here that barely get a comment.
A simple rule is that one shouldn't judge what other's spend their discretionary income on in life. Additionally one should not judge if someone's spending on a "material thing" is or isn't morally superior/inferior to spending on some experience. It's your money and it's your life, do what you enjoy.

Big Worm
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Big Worm » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:45 pm

fatmike91 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:25 am
$24K for a 12 year old boat that is only 21' long??? Oh boy. That feels really expensive to me. Like crazy money.

I just sold my 23' Sea Ray for less than half that (and it was well equipped and well maintained).
What kind of Sea Ray was it? Sounds like whoever bought it got a steal!

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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Ependytis » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:33 pm

I would strongly recommend the habit of paying everything with cash. I think delayed gratification for nonessentials prevents you from buying things on impulse. I know the OP is set on purchasing a boat so take that advice for what it is.

The other thing, regarding the sensitivity of bogleheads to boats, I think it stems from the cost per hour. If you look at the cost per hour of actually enjoying the boat especially if you include total costs (gas, insurance, licensing, storage, trailer, a truck to pull the trailer) I am guessing it’s more than $100 per hour. Personally, there’s very few things that cost upwards of $100 per hour on an ongoing I would purchase. For example, I can rent a Porsche 911 for $139 a day not including gas with a hundred mile allowance. I can’t imagine a boat would provide that much fun if I owned it. That’s just me.

andypanda
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by andypanda » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:02 pm

" $139 a day not including gas with a hundred mile allowance."

If I rented one and blasted up I-95 at 100 mph my day would be over in an hour. Plus gas. Of course, I'd have to do it in the middle of the night to sustain 100 mph for an hour. Plus tickets. :)

randomguy
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by randomguy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:14 pm

Ependytis wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:33 pm
I would strongly recommend the habit of paying everything with cash. I think delayed gratification for nonessentials prevents you from buying things on impulse. I know the OP is set on purchasing a boat so take that advice for what it is.
The OP has an EF. Seems like getting a boat this summer is an emergency (otherwise he would have saved up starting in Jan). :) The OP isn't going into debt to buy a boat. He is going to have a massive positive net worth after buying this boat. The debate is just about what the cheapest way to do it is. Pay income taxes by selling investments, pay interest by taking a loan, or run the risk you will need to sell investments if your EF isn't replenished in time. Personally I burn the EF (again lack of boat this summer is an emergency:)), and call it a day. But any of the other options work.

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Kurmudjon
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Kurmudjon » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:30 pm

Did not read all the replies but from what I know OP has 250k income and wants to buy 24k boat. How is even a question? Bogleheads going overboard on analysis as usual.
“Some of its magic some of its tragic but I had a good life all the way.”

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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by tibbitts » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:31 pm

Ependytis wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:33 pm
I would strongly recommend the habit of paying everything with cash. I think delayed gratification for nonessentials prevents you from buying things on impulse. I know the OP is set on purchasing a boat so take that advice for what it is.

The other thing, regarding the sensitivity of bogleheads to boats, I think it stems from the cost per hour. If you look at the cost per hour of actually enjoying the boat especially if you include total costs (gas, insurance, licensing, storage, trailer, a truck to pull the trailer) I am guessing it’s more than $100 per hour. Personally, there’s very few things that cost upwards of $100 per hour on an ongoing I would purchase. For example, I can rent a Porsche 911 for $139 a day not including gas with a hundred mile allowance. I can’t imagine a boat would provide that much fun if I owned it. That’s just me.
The OP didn't say much about the amount of use. There are a lot of variables involved in determining the cost per hour. The vast majority of people would get more pleasure from using a boat for an hour than a Porche.

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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by shawndoggy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:48 pm

fatmike91 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:25 am
$24K for a 12 year old boat that is only 21' long??? Oh boy. That feels really expensive to me. Like crazy money
Feels about right for an I/O in season.

Ha, If you were talking wakeboats I’d think you’d be looking at 40k for a 2008. For a boat that probably sold new for $50-55k.

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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:50 pm

Ependytis wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:33 pm
I would strongly recommend the habit of paying everything with cash. I think delayed gratification for nonessentials prevents you from buying things on impulse. I know the OP is set on purchasing a boat so take that advice for what it is.

The other thing, regarding the sensitivity of bogleheads to boats, I think it stems from the cost per hour. If you look at the cost per hour of actually enjoying the boat especially if you include total costs (gas, insurance, licensing, storage, trailer, a truck to pull the trailer) I am guessing it’s more than $100 per hour. Personally, there’s very few things that cost upwards of $100 per hour on an ongoing I would purchase. For example, I can rent a Porsche 911 for $139 a day not including gas with a hundred mile allowance. I can’t imagine a boat would provide that much fun if I owned it. That’s just me.
"I can’t imagine a boat would provide that much fun if I owned it. That’s just me."
That is why it is really great that everyone is free to do what they have fun doing.

OldBallCoach
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by OldBallCoach » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:10 pm

Its a nice Sea Ray for 24 K and you want to have some family fun. Just do it and have some fun. Life is too short to worry about every penny all the time. Plan on some costs for storage, dock, ect....gas and some extras...so ya drop 30K, you gonna miss any meals? We have a Boston Whaler that we use a few months a year to pull tube, ski and have some fun with...I dont know what I paid for it or what it costs to run it...we ENJOY it...buy the boat...if you dont know much about boats take a buddy that does or get it inspected...Ahoy!

Ependytis
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Ependytis » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:01 pm

My dear friend always says do the math. So this is how I figured $100 per hour to own a boat. Your results may vary. My initial estimate was pretty close.

Cost per day for the boat
License- $200
Depreciation- $2400 -10% per year
Insurance- $300
Gas- $2240 -average owner uses it 14 days*10 gallons/ hour* $4/gallon *4 hours/day
Maintenance and repairs- $1200 -5% of boat cost
Storage- $600 -$50/month
Trailer depreciation- $100 -10% depreciation
Cost/day- $503 -for 14 days use
Total- $7040

Own truck- F-150
5 year costs- $33675 -Edmunds 5 year cost
10% for boat use- $3368
Cost /day- $241 -14 days of usage

Grand Total- $10408 -Both boat and car
Cost/day- $744 -14 days use
Cost/hr based on 7 hr/day-$106

smitcat
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:23 pm

Ependytis wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:01 pm
My dear friend always says do the math. So this is how I figured $100 per hour to own a boat. Your results may vary. My initial estimate was pretty close.

Cost per day for the boat
License- $200
Depreciation- $2400 -10% per year
Insurance- $300
Gas- $2240 -average owner uses it 14 days*10 gallons/ hour* $4/gallon *4 hours/day
Maintenance and repairs- $1200 -5% of boat cost
Storage- $600 -$50/month
Trailer depreciation- $100 -10% depreciation
Cost/day- $503 -for 14 days use
Total- $7040

Own truck- F-150
5 year costs- $33675 -Edmunds 5 year cost
10% for boat use- $3368
Cost /day- $241 -14 days of usage

Grand Total- $10408 -Both boat and car
Cost/day- $744 -14 days use
Cost/hr based on 7 hr/day-$106
Is this how you figured it out for a boat you owned or are you just guessing?

IMO
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by IMO » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:11 pm

Ependytis wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:01 pm
My dear friend always says do the math. So this is how I figured $100 per hour to own a boat. Your results may vary. My initial estimate was pretty close.

Cost per day for the boat
License- $200
Depreciation- $2400 -10% per year
Insurance- $300
Gas- $2240 -average owner uses it 14 days*10 gallons/ hour* $4/gallon *4 hours/day
Maintenance and repairs- $1200 -5% of boat cost
Storage- $600 -$50/month
Trailer depreciation- $100 -10% depreciation
Cost/day- $503 -for 14 days use
Total- $7040

Own truck- F-150
5 year costs- $33675 -Edmunds 5 year cost
10% for boat use- $3368
Cost /day- $241 -14 days of usage

Grand Total- $10408 -Both boat and car
Cost/day- $744 -14 days use
Cost/hr based on 7 hr/day-$106
I have a boat and a truck. The truck is the truck, it has nothing to do with having a boat per se, except that I couldn't own a boat unless I have a sufficient vehicle to tow the boat. But the cost of the truck would still be there if I had a boat or not, so I don't think that's really a valid "cost" of owning a boat, unless one specifically bought a vehicle to tow a boat. I ride mt bikes and drive to various trails to ride. I don't factor in the cost of the vehicle per se when it comes to how much it costs to mountain bike each year because I'd own the vehicle regardless. I guess you can factor in cost of gas and depreciation per mile for each trip to a bike trail, but then you'd have to do that for everything, ie. my grocery bill requires use of my vehicle x number of days to get to the market, thus my grocery costs must include the cost of my vehicle, etc. etc.

14 days of boating can significantly change a family's entire summer experience for summer break. Perhaps a family of 4 or 5 can take a summer vacation to somewhere, say hawaii for a week, your costs are probably pretty similar for that week for the boat expense (heck many on this site travel 1st class, so it's probably alot more for them). After factoring in 8 hrs for sleeping/day on the trip, Is it worth it per hour/day? Does it really matter how someone chooses to spend their money to enjoy their summer with their family? Do I have to factor the cost of my car into that summer trip to hawaii, even if it's sitting in airport parking for the week?

But your example is valid. Know the cost of things we one does or wants to do. I think if most people realized it cost 35-50 cents per mile to drive anywhere, they'd probably think twice about how much they drive around.

You forgot to factor in lost opportunity costs, if one didn't own a boat, didn't go an a trip, how much would you have earned in your lifetime for that money.

Back to OP question, just pay cash, don't finance things like a boat.

kimura king
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by kimura king » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:27 pm

I'd do option C - sell items from taxable. Safest path. It isn't an emergency. You have the money. Maintain it well and sell if it becomes a huge hassle, it is pretty easy to rent a boat 2-3 times a summer and have plenty of fun doing so. I rented a 27' Cobalt last summer.

vested1
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by vested1 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:39 am

Ependytis wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:01 pm
My dear friend always says do the math. So this is how I figured $100 per hour to own a boat. Your results may vary. My initial estimate was pretty close.

Cost per day for the boat
License- $200
Depreciation- $2400 -10% per year
Insurance- $300
Gas- $2240 -average owner uses it 14 days*10 gallons/ hour* $4/gallon *4 hours/day
Maintenance and repairs- $1200 -5% of boat cost
Storage- $600 -$50/month
Trailer depreciation- $100 -10% depreciation
Cost/day- $503 -for 14 days use
Total- $7040

Own truck- F-150
5 year costs- $33675 -Edmunds 5 year cost
10% for boat use- $3368
Cost /day- $241 -14 days of usage

Grand Total- $10408 -Both boat and car
Cost/day- $744 -14 days use
Cost/hr based on 7 hr/day-$106
I have a truck. I had it before I bought my power boats. Should I deduct a portion of the purchase price and maintenance costs of the truck when I use it for anything other than towing one of my boats? How does $20 sound for when I use it to go to the dump, or $30 if I need to use it to pick up construction materials? And how much should I deduct from the price of the boats for all the fun my family has in them? What happens if we have fun in the truck? Does the cost for fuel for the boats and the truck count against me as an expense, or for me because I'm having fun? How much does a gallon of fun cost anyway?

I'm confused. Maybe I'm not that good at math.

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beernutz
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by beernutz » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:41 am

That price seems high imo.

In 2009 I bought a 2000 Sea Ray 190 Signature bow rider with 235 hours which was also in good shape and paid $8,200 to a MarineMax dealer who had accepted the boat as a trade-in. Yours is relatively older than mine was with more hours and a couple more feet but 3x the cost.

What type and size engine does the one you're considering have? Mine had a 5L Mercruiser which was pretty reliable until it wasn't when the oil pan developed a hole requiring the engine being pulled to replace it and a couple years later after a year of not being run there is zero compression on one cylinder.

Also I'm not sure if your Sea Ray has a EIM (electronic interface module) but mine went bad and fried the switch pad, requiring both to be replaced, which apparently is not an uncommon problem on the Sea Ray's with EIMs.

If you are going to pay more than $20k for a boat I highly recommend having a survey done. They charge by the foot and typically you can expect to pay around $400-$500 for a 21 footer but YMMV.

I would also recommend going to the clubsearay forums and search for / ask questions about the boat you are considering. It is a very good forum with a lot of expertise in Sea Rays of all types.

If you write about buying a boat on bogleheads the naysayers are going to come out of the woodwork, giddy with the chance to tell you what a terrible decision you're about to make.
Last edited by beernutz on Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. --Will Rogers

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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:55 am

With that salary and savings, I'd strongly consider buying a new boat. When I decided to buy a boat, I spent a year preparing. I read everything, I spent days at our local boat ramp talking with owners as they entered and exited the water, I visited all the local dealers. In the end, both the majority opinion I heard and one in particular stuck with me. You can buy new and spend your time in the boat on the water or you can buy used and spend your time fixing things on the boat on the trailer in your driveway. We bought a new Four Winns Horizon 180 (18 foot inboard/outboard) with the usual extras for $15,500. It worked well for us, was a great boat, was easy to winterize (literally pull one plug and if you want, pour anti freeze in to make sure and catch it under the motor). But our use quickly dwindled and at year #4 we sold it for $8k with 20 hours of use on it. For us, it's cheaper to rent a boat (about $250 a day for our exact boat, brand new on the lake we used it on). I get it that some people spend the entire summer on their boat.
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shawndoggy
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by shawndoggy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:21 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:55 am
With that salary and savings, I'd strongly consider buying a new boat. When I decided to buy a boat, I spent a year preparing. I read everything, I spent days at our local boat ramp talking with owners as they entered and exited the water, I visited all the local dealers. In the end, both the majority opinion I heard and one in particular stuck with me. You can buy new and spend your time in the boat on the water or you can buy used and spend your time fixing things on the boat on the trailer in your driveway. We bought a new Four Winns Horizon 180 (18 foot inboard/outboard) with the usual extras for $15,500. It worked well for us, was a great boat, was easy to winterize (literally pull one plug and if you want, pour anti freeze in to make sure and catch it under the motor). But our use quickly dwindled and at year #4 we sold it for $8k with 20 hours of use on it. For us, it's cheaper to rent a boat (about $250 a day for our exact boat, brand new on the lake we used it on). I get it that some people spend the entire summer on their boat.
Dang 20 hours in 4 years.... that's totally one of those "best day of boat ownership is the day you sell" kind of stores. Plus losing half in depreciation... ouch.

My 4 year old boat has 260 hours on it and I often wonder whether we use it enough.

sailaway
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by sailaway » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:26 pm

Engine hours aren't everything, if you hang out, anchor or raft up.

However, 20 hours in 4 years, is just sad. For the boat: I assume the owner decided they were happier doing other things.

Kagord
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by Kagord » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:30 pm

shawndoggy wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:21 pm
My 4 year old boat has 260 hours on it and I often wonder whether we use it enough.
You're running your boat more than I drive for a whole year, and that's pre COVID-19, granted, I'm only 6 minutes from work.

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White Coat Investor
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:30 pm

shawndoggy wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:21 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:55 am
With that salary and savings, I'd strongly consider buying a new boat. When I decided to buy a boat, I spent a year preparing. I read everything, I spent days at our local boat ramp talking with owners as they entered and exited the water, I visited all the local dealers. In the end, both the majority opinion I heard and one in particular stuck with me. You can buy new and spend your time in the boat on the water or you can buy used and spend your time fixing things on the boat on the trailer in your driveway. We bought a new Four Winns Horizon 180 (18 foot inboard/outboard) with the usual extras for $15,500. It worked well for us, was a great boat, was easy to winterize (literally pull one plug and if you want, pour anti freeze in to make sure and catch it under the motor). But our use quickly dwindled and at year #4 we sold it for $8k with 20 hours of use on it. For us, it's cheaper to rent a boat (about $250 a day for our exact boat, brand new on the lake we used it on). I get it that some people spend the entire summer on their boat.
Dang 20 hours in 4 years.... that's totally one of those "best day of boat ownership is the day you sell" kind of stores. Plus losing half in depreciation... ouch.

My 4 year old boat has 260 hours on it and I often wonder whether we use it enough.
I feel guilty any year I put less than 100 hours on it, and we have a pretty short season here. I told myself when I stop putting 20-40 hours a year on it that I'll sell it. Due to various COVID-related factors, this year will likely be the least of the last six years, but I think I'll still have at least 50 hours.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

IMO
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by IMO » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:49 am

sailaway wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:26 pm
Engine hours aren't everything, if you hang out, anchor or raft up.

However, 20 hours in 4 years, is just sad. For the boat: I assume the owner decided they were happier doing other things.
One can spend lots of hours on an engine if you are trying to teach many people to wakeboard/ski and basically go nowhere! :D

Hrs depend on things like who/how many people are wakeboarding/skiing, how big of a lake your at, and if your someone who likes to just drive around and burn gas.

I myself keep the hours low because lots of time is spent just "chilin" on the lake. In fact, it annoys me when boaters just drive around making wakes and ruining good flat water. On a full 10 hr day on the lake it's not that unusual to just put 3 hrs on the engine which is just fine with me. However, go to a big lake like Lake Powell, and it's easy to put alot of hrs on a boat for day just sightseeing different spots.

I see fishermen out early, I bet they put at best an hour on their engine for the day.

criticalmass
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by criticalmass » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:22 am

barnburner4444 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:57 pm
I am an member of a very big boating forum and always giggle a little when people come to it and ask finance questions. Glad yours is finance related haha. I have owned boats for last 25 or so years and they are a lot of work. My stance is this - I don’t want to finance one out of warranty. I don’t want to pay for repairs (there will be a lot), especially a repower on something I’m making payments on.

Coming from a coastal community, I’m not very familiar with Sea Ray but believe they are no longer in biz.
There are plenty of Sea Rays on the east coast. Sea Ray is a brand of Brunswick, just like its sister Brunswick brands Bayliner, Meridian, Boston Whaler, and a bunch of others.

smitcat
Posts: 5811
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by smitcat » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:52 am

criticalmass wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:22 am
barnburner4444 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:57 pm
I am an member of a very big boating forum and always giggle a little when people come to it and ask finance questions. Glad yours is finance related haha. I have owned boats for last 25 or so years and they are a lot of work. My stance is this - I don’t want to finance one out of warranty. I don’t want to pay for repairs (there will be a lot), especially a repower on something I’m making payments on.

Coming from a coastal community, I’m not very familiar with Sea Ray but believe they are no longer in biz.
There are plenty of Sea Rays on the east coast. Sea Ray is a brand of Brunswick, just like its sister Brunswick brands Bayliner, Meridian, Boston Whaler, and a bunch of others.
Agreed - when we were rafted up with other boats in NY and CT typically half of all the boats were Sea Rays. They are building plenty of boats but have suspended building their bridge boats about a year back. Not the first time a boat manufacturer has cut back producing some types of their boats.

barnburner4444
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:47 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by barnburner4444 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:43 am

criticalmass wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:22 am
barnburner4444 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:57 pm
I am an member of a very big boating forum and always giggle a little when people come to it and ask finance questions. Glad yours is finance related haha. I have owned boats for last 25 or so years and they are a lot of work. My stance is this - I don’t want to finance one out of warranty. I don’t want to pay for repairs (there will be a lot), especially a repower on something I’m making payments on.

Coming from a coastal community, I’m not very familiar with Sea Ray but believe they are no longer in biz.
There are plenty of Sea Rays on the east coast. Sea Ray is a brand of Brunswick, just like its sister Brunswick brands Bayliner, Meridian, Boston Whaler, and a bunch of others.
Sorry I should have said Coastal Florida. I see some bigger Sea Rays , but the runabouts or bow riders or whatever they are called are just not popular here. None of those brands are. I know Whaler is a popular boat in NE, but not so much here.

getthatmarshmallow
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:43 am

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:50 am

I'm possibly the opposite of a boat person but it's easy to see that you can afford it. This board sometimes! It's not a cheap hobby but one can certainly make it work on far less money than the OP has. My next door neighbor (in my non spendy neighborhood) has a Four Winns something and he lives for going out on the lakes in the summer. It's the cost of a Honda Fit (plus apparently you then have to throw your money in the water according to my boating friends😂).

criticalmass
Posts: 1516
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: I'm Buying a Boat...

Post by criticalmass » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:50 pm

getthatmarshmallow wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:50 am
I'm possibly the opposite of a boat person but it's easy to see that you can afford it. This board sometimes! It's not a cheap hobby but one can certainly make it work on far less money than the OP has. My next door neighbor (in my non spendy neighborhood) has a Four Winns something and he lives for going out on the lakes in the summer. It's the cost of a Honda Fit (plus apparently you then have to throw your money in the water according to my boating friends😂).
If you are handy and can perform normal basic maintenance and repairs, owning a boat of the OP’s size is really not that expensive. Much of the boating expenses are professional maintenance, engine care, winterizing, etc. Much of the engine care isn’t hard, but may require working in inconvenient spaces. Know how things work and what is needed to keep them working. Expect wiring/electronic components to have weird failures due to salt air over time. Buy the parts yourself and replace when needed. Avoid the states with ad valorem taxes on your ship. I now recommend a four stroke outboard over an IO. Avoid two cycles as they are gross polluters; even with improvements they still produce excessive noxious emissions, plus dumping unburned oil into the water we swim and fish from.

If you keep it in salt water then you also have bottom paint expenses (pay someone to do that!) every 2 years and maybe slip fees if your manse doesn’t have riparian rights.

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