I'm Buying a Boat...
I'm Buying a Boat...
I'm getting ready to buy a boat. I've made up my mind in terms of the purchase. This is a way of life for my family. It's what we do for recreation.
Financial Status:
Age: 35, Married, One Child
Desired Retirement Age: 55
Net Worth: 1 Million (80% Investments, 20% Equity)
Income: 250k Per Year
Average Yearly Savings: 33% Gross
Monthly Expenses: $3,750 give or take a bit
Debt: Primary Residence
11 Years Left on Mortgage @ 159k
Emergency Fund: 31k
Boat: 2008 Sea Ray, 21 ft Runabout, 300 hrs. Great shape.
Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?
Thanks TechieGuy
Financial Status:
Age: 35, Married, One Child
Desired Retirement Age: 55
Net Worth: 1 Million (80% Investments, 20% Equity)
Income: 250k Per Year
Average Yearly Savings: 33% Gross
Monthly Expenses: $3,750 give or take a bit
Debt: Primary Residence
11 Years Left on Mortgage @ 159k
Emergency Fund: 31k
Boat: 2008 Sea Ray, 21 ft Runabout, 300 hrs. Great shape.
Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?
Thanks TechieGuy
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Make the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Sounds like 123 has some experience in boat buying and results thereof!
Tom D.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I'd never remotely sell my boat to you if that was the condition. You can't return a boat in the same condition if you use it, you just put hours on the engine which lowers it's value. Besides, what typical boat owner wouldn't want the full purchase price funds right away. Do boat dealers offer that type of financing (0%) and let you return the boat at any time?123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
Is this the condition you'd sell/buy a car? Just seems unreasonable.
But maybe I'm wrong and this is frequently done?
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I am an member of a very big boating forum and always giggle a little when people come to it and ask finance questions. Glad yours is finance related haha. I have owned boats for last 25 or so years and they are a lot of work. My stance is this - I don’t want to finance one out of warranty. I don’t want to pay for repairs (there will be a lot), especially a repower on something I’m making payments on.
Coming from a coastal community, I’m not very familiar with Sea Ray but believe they are no longer in biz.
Coming from a coastal community, I’m not very familiar with Sea Ray but believe they are no longer in biz.
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I would pay cash. I see your AA 80 % Investments, 20% Equity but wonder if the 20% is actually Bonds. If so, take from your Emergency Fund and Bonds or Stocks.
seaRay continues to do well in the recreational marine segment but closed the yacht and sporting yacht biz.
Enjoy your boat!
seaRay continues to do well in the recreational marine segment but closed the yacht and sporting yacht biz.
Enjoy your boat!
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Pay cash. A boat is a toy. Don't go into debt, especially not for toys.
-TheDDC
-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 75-80% VTSAX piled high and deep, 20-25% VTIAX, 0% given away to banks.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Pay cash. Unless your spending is very high, and I suspect that with your age and net worth it is not, you can cash flow this, replenishing that EF quickly.
See username.
See username.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I'd do A (cash and replenish with income since you have a high income and savings rate). Surprised you've waited this long to buy one.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Any self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
You forgot to demand that they wash and wax the boat for you monthly and pay for your gas. Seriously that's completely unrealistic you would never get those terms in a million years.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP I'd use your emergency fund and replenish over a few months.
Last edited by eye.surgeon on Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"I would rather be certain of a good return than hopeful of a great one" |
Warren Buffett
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
d. Save it up from earnings.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm I'm getting ready to buy a boat. I've made up my mind in terms of the purchase. This is a way of life for my family. It's what we do for recreation.
Financial Status:
Age: 35, Married, One Child
Desired Retirement Age: 55
Net Worth: 1 Million (80% Investments, 20% Equity)
Income: 250k Per Year
Average Yearly Savings: 33% Gross
Monthly Expenses: $3,750 give or take a bit
Debt: Primary Residence
11 Years Left on Mortgage @ 159k
Emergency Fund: 31k
Boat: 2008 Sea Ray, 21 ft Runabout, 300 hrs. Great shape.
Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?
Thanks TechieGuy
My second best choice would be c.
Emergency funds aren't for boats and credit isn't for boats either.
You make $250K. It's only a $24K boat. You should be able to save it up no problema in a couple of months.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
- White Coat Investor
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- Location: Greatest Snow On Earth
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
That's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe on a $4K boat, but certainly not on a $200K and I doubt on a $25K boat like the one the OP is considering. He can certainly afford the cost and ongoing costs of a $25K boat on a $250K income.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I mean, we have probably averaged around 20-25%, but that includes upgrades and a refit on a liveaboard 30+yo boat, not maintenance on a low hour bow rider.White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pmThat's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe on a $4K boat, but certainly not on a $200K and I doubt on a $25K boat like the one the OP is considering. He can certainly afford the cost and ongoing costs of a $25K boat on a $250K income.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Not sure if he’s keeping it dry or slipped. Cheaper slipped boats + maintenance will still average 20-25%/yr where I’m located. One year in dry dock for a couple days + labor and you’re almost at 20% of 24k /shrugWhite Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pmThat's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe on a $4K boat, but certainly not on a $200K and I doubt on a $25K boat like the one the OP is considering. He can certainly afford the cost and ongoing costs of a $25K boat on a $250K income.
Last edited by bstewie on Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I’m mentally rolling slip fees in, if he’s keeping it dry it will be a lot less, agreedsailaway wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:47 pmI mean, we have probably averaged around 20-25%, but that includes upgrades and a refit on a liveaboard 30+yo boat, not maintenance on a low hour bow rider.White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pmThat's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe on a $4K boat, but certainly not on a $200K and I doubt on a $25K boat like the one the OP is considering. He can certainly afford the cost and ongoing costs of a $25K boat on a $250K income.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Dude. You make 1/4 million a year. Buy the boat with cash. If you can’t do this you’re doing it wrong.
I’d trade it all for a little more |
-C Montgomery Burns
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Sure and now he is buying a boat in September and for a good chunk of the country has missed out on the best boating months of the year. Paying taxes to fund the boat also seems stupid. Seems like A or B is the best choice. The interest doesn't matter much when you pay the loan off in 3 months. Obviously the best way would have been to decide to buy the boat back in Janaury and save up the 5k/month. But we don't have a time machine.White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:37 pm
d. Save it up from earnings.
My second best choice would be c.
Emergency funds aren't for boats and credit isn't for boats either.
You make $250K. It's only a $24K boat. You should be able to save it up no problema in a couple of months.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
+1White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:37 pm Emergency funds aren't for boats and credit isn't for boats either.
You make $250K. It's only a $24K boat. You should be able to save it up no problema in a couple of months.
Pay cash.
Either save it up over a few months or sell something in your taxable account.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I've had boats and they don't need 20-25% annually for maintenance unless you base it on current value after many years. Even after mine sank, which isn't the greatest thing for engines and electronics, it didn't need 20% for maintenance.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 pmAny self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Clarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...tibbitts wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:43 pmI've had boats and they don't need 20-25% annually for maintenance unless you base it on current value after many years. Even after mine sank, which isn't the greatest thing for engines and electronics, it didn't need 20% for maintenance.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 pmAny self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Did you have a sinking fund for expenses like that?
(Sorry, I could not help myself.)
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
So you're asking, can I afford it? I think even Suze Orman would say, you go guy, go get your boat.
Just remember, it's very easy to buy a boat, you're in the winning negotiation position here. Selling a boat flat out sucks, it truly is the best day of one's life when you don't want one (or that one) anymore and the sale is complete.
Just remember, it's very easy to buy a boat, you're in the winning negotiation position here. Selling a boat flat out sucks, it truly is the best day of one's life when you don't want one (or that one) anymore and the sale is complete.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Pay cash for the boat and start having fun. In 2011 we purchased a 2005 Sea Ray Select 200 and have never had one bit of trouble. Just routine maintenance. Summerize it, put it in the water, then pull it out for the winter and have it winterized. Best depreciating asset we ever purchased. A great family toy and now that my wife and I are empty nesters, we still enjoy it immensely.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
123 backbstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 pmAny self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
If the seller's spouse told the seller to effectivelly "get rid of that damn boat" there may be no end to the concessions available.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
OP, congrats on the second happiest day of your life!
(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Over how many years? If you're spending 25% a year on maintenance why not just let it go to pot and buy a new one every 4 years. Same price!sailaway wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:47 pmI mean, we have probably averaged around 20-25%, but that includes upgrades and a refit on a liveaboard 30+yo boat, not maintenance on a low hour bow rider.White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pmThat's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe on a $4K boat, but certainly not on a $200K and I doubt on a $25K boat like the one the OP is considering. He can certainly afford the cost and ongoing costs of a $25K boat on a $250K income.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I agree he should have started saving for it in March, but he didn't post here until June so I could tell him.randomguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:16 pmSure and now he is buying a boat in September and for a good chunk of the country has missed out on the best boating months of the year. Paying taxes to fund the boat also seems stupid. Seems like A or B is the best choice. The interest doesn't matter much when you pay the loan off in 3 months. Obviously the best way would have been to decide to buy the boat back in Janaury and save up the 5k/month. But we don't have a time machine.White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:37 pm
d. Save it up from earnings.
My second best choice would be c.
Emergency funds aren't for boats and credit isn't for boats either.
You make $250K. It's only a $24K boat. You should be able to save it up no problema in a couple of months.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I don't buy it. Put it up for sale on Memorial Day and price it accurately. It'll go fast. I think mine sold in 2 days, for $1500 more than I paid for it 5 years earlier.Kagord wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:13 pm So you're asking, can I afford it? I think even Suze Orman would say, you go guy, go get your boat.
Just remember, it's very easy to buy a boat, you're in the winning negotiation position here. Selling a boat flat out sucks, it truly is the best day of one's life when you don't want one (or that one) anymore and the sale is complete.
But sure, if you want to sell it in November in Minnesota for top dollar it might be a little trickier.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
I'd go with option A. Easy to cash flow with your income. Congratulations.
Another option, depending in your brokerage and how much you have in a taxable investment account is to use a low cost margin loan. IB has 1.6% now. I cannot imagine borrowing $24k at 5% with your income.
Another option, depending in your brokerage and how much you have in a taxable investment account is to use a low cost margin loan. IB has 1.6% now. I cannot imagine borrowing $24k at 5% with your income.
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Suze actually owns a 50 or 60 ft boat. At the moment I can not remember the brand. Must be a good investment!
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
true, you’re probably a better negotiator than me123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:54 pm123 backbstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 pmAny self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
If the seller's spouse told the seller to effectivelly "get rid of that damn boat" there may be no end to the concessions available.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Yeah, it's an interesting thing with wakeboard boats. The new models are so expensive that your boat can actually appreciate when it's a more moderate priced boat. Just looked up my boat out of curiosity (mine's over 10 yrs old), same model 4 years older than mine is selling for what I bought mine for new. Not sure where one gets 25% maintenance annually???White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pmI don't buy it. Put it up for sale on Memorial Day and price it accurately. It'll go fast. I think mine sold in 2 days, for $1500 more than I paid for it 5 years earlier.Kagord wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:13 pm So you're asking, can I afford it? I think even Suze Orman would say, you go guy, go get your boat.
Just remember, it's very easy to buy a boat, you're in the winning negotiation position here. Selling a boat flat out sucks, it truly is the best day of one's life when you don't want one (or that one) anymore and the sale is complete.
But sure, if you want to sell it in November in Minnesota for top dollar it might be a little trickier.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Liveaboard vs toyIMO wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:43 pmNot sure where one gets 25% maintenance annually???White Coat Investor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pmI don't buy it. Put it up for sale on Memorial Day and price it accurately. It'll go fast. I think mine sold in 2 days, for $1500 more than I paid for it 5 years earlier.Kagord wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:13 pm So you're asking, can I afford it? I think even Suze Orman would say, you go guy, go get your boat.
Just remember, it's very easy to buy a boat, you're in the winning negotiation position here. Selling a boat flat out sucks, it truly is the best day of one's life when you don't want one (or that one) anymore and the sale is complete.
But sure, if you want to sell it in November in Minnesota for top dollar it might be a little trickier.
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
OP, congrats on the boat. Pay cash. You won't have much bargaining power in the middle of summer, but who cares on a 24k boat.
FWIW, we upgraded our pontoon this year and it took less than 5 hours to sell our old one on FB Marketplace. It is very easy to sell a boat at the beginning of the season.
FWIW, we upgraded our pontoon this year and it took less than 5 hours to sell our old one on FB Marketplace. It is very easy to sell a boat at the beginning of the season.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
We have had many larger boats and none of them were near 50% - not even near 20%. Please keep me away from your friends.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pmClarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...tibbitts wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:43 pmI've had boats and they don't need 20-25% annually for maintenance unless you base it on current value after many years. Even after mine sank, which isn't the greatest thing for engines and electronics, it didn't need 20% for maintenance.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 pmAny self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pmMake the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.techieguy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:07 pm ...Purchase Price: 24k
How should I buy the boat?
a. Use the cash in emergency fund, replenish through income?
b. Put down 9k from emergency fund take out 36 month loan at 5% for 15,000k?
c. Sell taxable investments and pay with cash?
d. A method I'm not thinking of?...
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Our definitions of maintenance are probably quite far apart. 50% incident was a driveshaft failure.smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pmWe have had many larger boats and none of them were near 50% - not even near 20%. Please keep me away from your friends.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pmClarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...tibbitts wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:43 pmI've had boats and they don't need 20-25% annually for maintenance unless you base it on current value after many years. Even after mine sank, which isn't the greatest thing for engines and electronics, it didn't need 20% for maintenance.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 pmAny self respecting seller would laugh you away at this request.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pm
Make the purchase contingent on a 0% loan from the current owner (or dealer) for 24 months ($1,000 a month) with the right to return the boat (for any/no reason in the same condition it was at purchase) at any time during the loan with the balance of the loan canceled. Make payments from current income.
OP, make sure to save approx 20-25% of the value of the boat annually for maintenance. Boats need their own EF.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
We have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:20 pmOur definitions of maintenance are probably quite far apart. 50% incident was a driveshaft failure.smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pmWe have had many larger boats and none of them were near 50% - not even near 20%. Please keep me away from your friends.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pmClarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
To counteract all the "best day of a boat owner" and it is so expensive comments...I had a cabin cruiser I bought 1 year old. I only had minor repairs in 10 years and sold it after 10 years for 70% of what I paid. All that being said, it not all laughs but can be exceptionally enjoyable.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:20 pmOur definitions of maintenance are probably quite far apart. 50% incident was a driveshaft failure.smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pmWe have had many larger boats and none of them were near 50% - not even near 20%. Please keep me away from your friends.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pmClarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat (being broad here with cleaning)
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
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Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
A slip is NOT part of maintenance. Do you count property tax as maintenance on your house??bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:20 pmOur definitions of maintenance are probably quite far apart. 50% incident was a driveshaft failure.smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pmWe have had many larger boats and none of them were near 50% - not even near 20%. Please keep me away from your friends.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pm
Clarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
if i consider the slip a requirement for proper enjoyment in use of the boat, it’s a maintenance / operating costmichaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:37 pmA slip is NOT part of maintenance. Do you count property tax as maintenance on your house??bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
see above where i specifically stated we probably have differing opinions of what is considered maintenance
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:20 pmOur definitions of maintenance are probably quite far apart. 50% incident was a driveshaft failure.smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pmWe have had many larger boats and none of them were near 50% - not even near 20%. Please keep me away from your friends.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pm
Clarified above, accounting for slip fees as well. Not sure if op plans to keep it dry. If op keeps it dry definitely *way* less. My experience is based on larger boats. I’ve had friends with slightly larger boats with less severe incidents that were 50% repairs...
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat (being broad here with cleaning)
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
Which boat make and model and what dollars have your expended to come up with your rule of thumbs?
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- Posts: 10843
- Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Now you added a slash and included operating cost.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pmif i consider the slip a requirement for proper enjoyment in use of the boat, it’s a maintenance / operating costmichaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:37 pmA slip is NOT part of maintenance. Do you count property tax as maintenance on your house??bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
see above where i specifically stated we probably have differing opinions of what is considered maintenance
Operating costs are not the same as maintenance.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Call it ~36’-42’ liveaboards - including slip fees - that are 15+yr old. More than moderate use by recreational standards (500+ h/yr)smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pmbstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat (being broad here with cleaning)
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
Which boat make and model and what dollars have your expended to come up with your rule of thumbs?
PS - we are derailing from OP but I am happy to continue to explain my position
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
my point is money is fungible and boat use is % / yr depending on preferences and use, get over the semantics.michaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:45 pmNow you added a slash and included operating cost.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pmif i consider the slip a requirement for proper enjoyment in use of the boat, it’s a maintenance / operating costmichaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:37 pmA slip is NOT part of maintenance. Do you count property tax as maintenance on your house??bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pm
We have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
see above where i specifically stated we probably have differing opinions of what is considered maintenance
Operating costs are not the same as maintenance.
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- Posts: 10843
- Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Yeah, specifics don't matter. We can know the slip fees, pretty well estimate gas usage, winter storage (if applicable) and things like that. Maintenance/repairs is more unknowable.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:50 pmmy point is money is fungible and boat use is % / yr depending on preferences and use, get over the semantics.michaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:45 pmNow you added a slash and included operating cost.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pmif i consider the slip a requirement for proper enjoyment in use of the boat, it’s a maintenance / operating costmichaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:37 pmA slip is NOT part of maintenance. Do you count property tax as maintenance on your house??bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm
- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costs
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
see above where i specifically stated we probably have differing opinions of what is considered maintenance
Operating costs are not the same as maintenance.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
Yes, in that light my %s are wrong. I guess my original estimates are more in line with average annual cost of ownership.michaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:56 pmYeah, specifics don't matter. We can know the slip fees, pretty well estimate gas usage, winter storage (if applicable) and things like that. Maintenance/repairs is more unknowable.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:50 pmmy point is money is fungible and boat use is % / yr depending on preferences and use, get over the semantics.michaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:45 pmNow you added a slash and included operating cost.bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pmif i consider the slip a requirement for proper enjoyment in use of the boat, it’s a maintenance / operating costmichaeljc70 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:37 pm
A slip is NOT part of maintenance. Do you count property tax as maintenance on your house??
see above where i specifically stated we probably have differing opinions of what is considered maintenance
Operating costs are not the same as maintenance.
Re: I'm Buying a Boat...
You are a full time liveaboard and are comparing those costs to a 21' runaround recreational boat?bstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:49 pmCall it ~36’-42’ liveaboards - including slip fees - that are 15+yr old. More than moderate use by recreational standards (500+ h/yr)smitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pmbstewie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:35 pm- are you slipped? do you consider that part of annual maintenance? is it a desirable slip or do you have it the cheapest place possible and you count fuel separately from maintenance and have to compensate to enjoy time out with fuel? depending on size of boat and storage location this significantly changes baseline % i would consider annual maintenance / operating costssmitcat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:25 pmWe have owned numerous used boats sometimes more than one at a time for over 25 years - not even close to 20% maintenance on any of them. Typically under 10% or less ...a few of them were twice the size that the OP is contemplating buying.
I do not know which boats you have owned or how many but perhaps you can more clearly explain how your boat(s) cost over 25% and sometime 50% of value per year in maintenance.
- how often do you clean your boat? what do you consider clean? an annual cleaning vs monthly or bi weekly cleanings depending on use might be a contributing factor based on size and cost of boat (being broad here with cleaning)
- how often do you inspect your engine and replace worn parts? most people wait for a part to fail, if you’re on a day trip on a lake or close to shore this isn’t a big deal and you probably don’t spend $ on preventative maintenance
- how much exterior space are you maintaining? how frequently are you replacing exterior upholstery, repairing fiber, replacing canvas? again, depends on size of boat and your preference and use. some folks will never incur these costs because they don’t own the boat long enough or don’t care
Which boat make and model and what dollars have your expended to come up with your rule of thumbs?
PS - we are derailing from OP but I am happy to continue to explain my position
Why would you even post such a comparison?
Even with that comparison why are you spending up to 50% of value each year in costs?
What is a drive shaft on a 40' powerboat? Are you referring to the shafts on a straight drive inboard? Shafting, cutlass bearings, props, and struts are all fairly easy to avoid problems and/or handle in larger boats but in any case we are talking about average costs per season not one poor year.
We have had 3 used boats above 45' - all with twin diesels that traveled more than 1,000 nmiles per year and often towing a 19 or 24' larger RIB. These boats also had another RIB on the boat deck and we typically would have slept on the boat more than 60 nights per season.
We do not calculate vacations, food, drinks,and entertainment in our boats maintenance categories which we have always kept in quickbooks.