Refinance Mega Thread

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seawolf21
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 am Thanks for replying to both of you.

I define a true no cost as settling with a slightly higher rate so nothing comes out of my pocket and also meaning NOT rolling in closing cost into the new loan.
The lender credit will cover ALL cost except prepaids/escrow.

Also, Is the Amex credit a statement credit? If so, if I have a zero balance since I pay my credit card every month. Would they send me a check also if I request? I'm sure this question has been answered. I've read a lot of the pages on this thread but my eyes feel crossed and my brain is scrambled trying to process all.
Amex should send a check for the $2500 if you have no balance on the card.
Familyman2012
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:29 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:16 am Just so I understand correctly.

for example: 2.99% for 30 years. True no cost. No escrow.
If I bring this to Better.com and they beat the offer by +$1000 plus Amex ($2500)
Since it's a No cost Refi. Does that mean better will send me a check of $1000? then I get $2500 in statement credit to my AMEX card?
How are you defining no cost? Usually we take that as lender credits covering title/taxes/fees. Aside from prepaids/escrows (which you don't have), what about prepaid interest on the new mortgage? In the end, if your new mortgage is greater than the sum of your loan payoff + closing costs - lender credits, than yes you'll get money from Better.
I don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Thanks for your reply.

reduce principal or check.. I'll take either or

Anyone with this experience. Please chime in and let us know what happen to you.

Thanks boglehead family
Familyman2012
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:41 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 am Thanks for replying to both of you.

I define a true no cost as settling with a slightly higher rate so nothing comes out of my pocket and also meaning NOT rolling in closing cost into the new loan.
The lender credit will cover ALL cost except prepaids/escrow.

Also, Is the Amex credit a statement credit? If so, if I have a zero balance since I pay my credit card every month. Would they send me a check also if I request? I'm sure this question has been answered. I've read a lot of the pages on this thread but my eyes feel crossed and my brain is scrambled trying to process all.
Amex should send a check for the $2500 if you have no balance on the card.
Since my wife and I are co signing the refi.
Do we both need an Amex account?
or is 1 account suffice?
mt2k
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:45 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:29 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:16 am Just so I understand correctly.

for example: 2.99% for 30 years. True no cost. No escrow.
If I bring this to Better.com and they beat the offer by +$1000 plus Amex ($2500)
Since it's a No cost Refi. Does that mean better will send me a check of $1000? then I get $2500 in statement credit to my AMEX card?
How are you defining no cost? Usually we take that as lender credits covering title/taxes/fees. Aside from prepaids/escrows (which you don't have), what about prepaid interest on the new mortgage? In the end, if your new mortgage is greater than the sum of your loan payoff + closing costs - lender credits, than yes you'll get money from Better.
I don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Thanks for your reply.

reduce principal or check.. I'll take either or

Anyone with this experience. Please chime in and let us know what happen to you.

Thanks boglehead family
In my last refinance I got Principal Reduction, no check. I think the limit is $2,500
Familyman2012
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

mt2k wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:45 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:29 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:16 am Just so I understand correctly.

for example: 2.99% for 30 years. True no cost. No escrow.
If I bring this to Better.com and they beat the offer by +$1000 plus Amex ($2500)
Since it's a No cost Refi. Does that mean better will send me a check of $1000? then I get $2500 in statement credit to my AMEX card?
How are you defining no cost? Usually we take that as lender credits covering title/taxes/fees. Aside from prepaids/escrows (which you don't have), what about prepaid interest on the new mortgage? In the end, if your new mortgage is greater than the sum of your loan payoff + closing costs - lender credits, than yes you'll get money from Better.
I don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Thanks for your reply.

reduce principal or check.. I'll take either or

Anyone with this experience. Please chime in and let us know what happen to you.

Thanks boglehead family
In my last refinance I got Principal Reduction, no check. I think the limit is $2,500
Thanks for your reply.

Have a blessed day
ma21n2
Posts: 146
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ma21n2 »

mt2k wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:45 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:29 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:16 am Just so I understand correctly.

for example: 2.99% for 30 years. True no cost. No escrow.
If I bring this to Better.com and they beat the offer by +$1000 plus Amex ($2500)
Since it's a No cost Refi. Does that mean better will send me a check of $1000? then I get $2500 in statement credit to my AMEX card?
How are you defining no cost? Usually we take that as lender credits covering title/taxes/fees. Aside from prepaids/escrows (which you don't have), what about prepaid interest on the new mortgage? In the end, if your new mortgage is greater than the sum of your loan payoff + closing costs - lender credits, than yes you'll get money from Better.
I don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Thanks for your reply.

reduce principal or check.. I'll take either or

Anyone with this experience. Please chime in and let us know what happen to you.

Thanks boglehead family
In my last refinance I got Principal Reduction, no check. I think the limit is $2,500
I think Fannie Mae limits cash back to $2,000 or 2% of loan, whichever is less, subject to other caveats (B2-1.3-02).

Any refund above that can be used to reduce principal, up to $2,500 or 2%, whichever is less:
If the borrower receives more cash back than is permitted for limited cash-out refinances, the lender can apply a curtailment to reduce the amount of cash back to the borrower to bring the loan into compliance with the maximum cash-back requirement. The maximum amount of the curtailment cannot exceed the lesser of $2,500 or 2% of the original loan amount for the subject loan. For example, if the borrower received $3,500 cash back at closing on a loan amount of $200,000, the lender could apply a $1,500 curtailment prior to delivery to Fannie Mae. This would result in “net cash back” to the borrower of $2,000, thus meeting Fannie Mae’s limited cash-out refinance requirement.
(B2-1.5-05)
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

ma21n2 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:48 pm
mt2k wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:45 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:29 am

How are you defining no cost? Usually we take that as lender credits covering title/taxes/fees. Aside from prepaids/escrows (which you don't have), what about prepaid interest on the new mortgage? In the end, if your new mortgage is greater than the sum of your loan payoff + closing costs - lender credits, than yes you'll get money from Better.
I don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Thanks for your reply.

reduce principal or check.. I'll take either or

Anyone with this experience. Please chime in and let us know what happen to you.

Thanks boglehead family
In my last refinance I got Principal Reduction, no check. I think the limit is $2,500
I think Fannie Mae limits cash back to $2,000 or 2% of loan, whichever is less, subject to other caveats (B2-1.3-02).

Any refund above that can be used to reduce principal, up to $2,500 or 2%, whichever is less:
If the borrower receives more cash back than is permitted for limited cash-out refinances, the lender can apply a curtailment to reduce the amount of cash back to the borrower to bring the loan into compliance with the maximum cash-back requirement. The maximum amount of the curtailment cannot exceed the lesser of $2,500 or 2% of the original loan amount for the subject loan. For example, if the borrower received $3,500 cash back at closing on a loan amount of $200,000, the lender could apply a $1,500 curtailment prior to delivery to Fannie Mae. This would result in “net cash back” to the borrower of $2,000, thus meeting Fannie Mae’s limited cash-out refinance requirement.
(B2-1.5-05)
Thank you !!!!!!
tuck3979
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:29 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tuck3979 »

Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:57 pm
ma21n2 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:48 pm
mt2k wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:45 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am

I don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Thanks for your reply.

reduce principal or check.. I'll take either or

Anyone with this experience. Please chime in and let us know what happen to you.

Thanks boglehead family
In my last refinance I got Principal Reduction, no check. I think the limit is $2,500
I think Fannie Mae limits cash back to $2,000 or 2% of loan, whichever is less, subject to other caveats (B2-1.3-02).

Any refund above that can be used to reduce principal, up to $2,500 or 2%, whichever is less:
If the borrower receives more cash back than is permitted for limited cash-out refinances, the lender can apply a curtailment to reduce the amount of cash back to the borrower to bring the loan into compliance with the maximum cash-back requirement. The maximum amount of the curtailment cannot exceed the lesser of $2,500 or 2% of the original loan amount for the subject loan. For example, if the borrower received $3,500 cash back at closing on a loan amount of $200,000, the lender could apply a $1,500 curtailment prior to delivery to Fannie Mae. This would result in “net cash back” to the borrower of $2,000, thus meeting Fannie Mae’s limited cash-out refinance requirement.
(B2-1.5-05)
Thank you !!!!!!
Very informative - thank you! Who decides on principal reduction vs. check? I'm at a $3k excess and haven't gotten to closing state yet. Curious as I prefer to max a check back to me first.
dsmil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dsmil »

I received $2k back on my last refinance. There was then an extra amount <$1k that they used for principal reduction. My guy at better.com also mentioned the $2k max. that I can get at closing.
frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

Closed today on an investment property refinance with Northpointe at 2.875/15y/0pts. About $3k closing costs; rolled everything in and took the max $2k cash out. It took about 70 days to close; process was slow but hassle-free. My thanks to the BH community for bringing Northpointe to my attention--nobody else has come within 0.25% of their rate/costs for this investment property refinance since I started looking.

There was one hiccup at the end that leads to this warning: carefully compare your closing disclosure with your loan estimate. The closing disclosure reflected transfer taxes about $300 higher than quoted on the loan estimate. The CFPB regs don’t allow transfer taxes to increase from the LE except in certain limited circumstances. I flagged the issue, citing the applicable reg, and they fixed it (as a “courtesy,” since nobody ever admits a violation). This ended up pushing closing back by another five days, but obviously worth the $300.

So just a reminder to me and everyone else—examine your closing disclosure closely and compare it side-by-side with the LE. Some parts can increase, some can increase by 10 percent, and some can’t increase at all.
SEAworld9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SEAworld9 »

Closed on 5/23, funded 5/29 via better with Amex deal at 3.375% on a super conforming/high balance loan. Just a call from another lender i had reached out to offering 2.99% no cost (would just need to fund impounds).

Tempted to do a couple hours of paperwork to drop this rate further and I don’t see anything in the loan docs that prevent an immediate refi with another lender nor anything in the Amex deal t&c that would disqualify the $2500 statement credit.

Anyone have experience with this?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 amI don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Come to think about it, I concur. I know the $2k cash back, $2.5k principal, forfeit numbers (assuming no escrow), but got hung up with cash-out refi echoing in the mind.

That said, I also wouldn’t be surprised that if under $2k, they give you a choice. In my case, it was them overpaying the prior lender vs. freed up cash as closing, and that’s even after updating/lowering the loan amount when the closing disclosures were prepared. But lowering the loan amount is akin to a principal reduction, so it may simple have “in essence” been done.

Thanks for the correction!
ddurrett896
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ddurrett896 »

Navy Federal Credit Union
15 year @ 2.625% ($0 points)
15 year @ 2.5% ($600 points)
15 year @ 2.25% ($1,200 points)

I'm happy with the 2.625% coming out of a 30 year 3.625% (7 years in)
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:17 pm
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 amI don’t think they will send you a check, they will reduce principal of new loan if lender credit exceeds closing cost and I believe limit on principal reduction/curtailment is $2k. Anything in excess of that would be forfeited.
Come to think about it, I concur. I know the $2k cash back, $2.5k principal, forfeit numbers (assuming no escrow), but got hung up with cash-out refi echoing in the mind.

That said, I also wouldn’t be surprised that if under $2k, they give you a choice. In my case, it was them overpaying the prior lender vs. freed up cash as closing, and that’s even after updating/lowering the loan amount when the closing disclosures were prepared. But lowering the loan amount is akin to a principal reduction, so it may simple have “in essence” been done.

Thanks for the correction!
It was more of a PSA to public. Don't go pick 3.25% 30 year with $10K credit thinking you will get $4K in cash back due to transaction cost and prepaid being only $6k because you were planning to refi again in a another month or two after closing current refi. :)
MapleSyrup
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MapleSyrup »

I have never refinanced before. Please anyone let me know if I am missing something!

If I refinance at my current rate of 3.75, LenderFi shows a a $2,500 credit. At 3.625, they show a $1,600 credit. The monthly payment for 3.75 is only $14 more per month than the 3.625.

I’m planning on selling the house within a few years, so I think it would be best to refinance for the same rate I currently have and take advantage of the extra $900 credit. Am I missing something? Am I crazy to try to refinance the same as my current rate? Thanks!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:44 pm I have never refinanced before. Please anyone let me know if I am missing something!

If I refinance at my current rate of 3.75, LenderFi shows a a $2,500 credit. At 3.625, they show a $1,600 credit. The monthly payment for 3.75 is only $14 more per month than the 3.625.

I’m planning on selling the house within a few years, so I think it would be best to refinance for the same rate I currently have and take advantage of the extra $900 credit. Am I missing something? Am I crazy to try to refinance the same as my current rate? Thanks!
Much of this will depend on what the closing costa are. Please provide what LenderFi has in Sections A, B, C, and E (or if on the initial screen vs. a Loan Estimate, what are the closing costs without counting “escrow” or “prepaid interest”).

Also, what’s the motivation for refinancing?
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:44 pm I have never refinanced before. Please anyone let me know if I am missing something!

If I refinance at my current rate of 3.75, LenderFi shows a a $2,500 credit. At 3.625, they show a $1,600 credit. The monthly payment for 3.75 is only $14 more per month than the 3.625.

I’m planning on selling the house within a few years, so I think it would be best to refinance for the same rate I currently have and take advantage of the extra $900 credit. Am I missing something? Am I crazy to try to refinance the same as my current rate? Thanks!
Why are you refinancing at same/similar rate? Are you changing loan duration or getting cash out?
MapleSyrup
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MapleSyrup »

seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:15 pm
MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:44 pm I have never refinanced before. Please anyone let me know if I am missing something!

If I refinance at my current rate of 3.75, LenderFi shows a a $2,500 credit. At 3.625, they show a $1,600 credit. The monthly payment for 3.75 is only $14 more per month than the 3.625.

I’m planning on selling the house within a few years, so I think it would be best to refinance for the same rate I currently have and take advantage of the extra $900 credit. Am I missing something? Am I crazy to try to refinance the same as my current rate? Thanks!
Why are you refinancing at same/similar rate? Are you changing loan duration or getting cash out?
My reasoning is to reduce my monthly payment by more than $100, plus the $2500 Amex offer from Better caught my attention. Also, if lender credits cover closing costs or even pay part of my escrow taxes, that seems like a good deal to me.
MapleSyrup
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MapleSyrup »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:47 pm
MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:44 pm I have never refinanced before. Please anyone let me know if I am missing something!

If I refinance at my current rate of 3.75, LenderFi shows a a $2,500 credit. At 3.625, they show a $1,600 credit. The monthly payment for 3.75 is only $14 more per month than the 3.625.

I’m planning on selling the house within a few years, so I think it would be best to refinance for the same rate I currently have and take advantage of the extra $900 credit. Am I missing something? Am I crazy to try to refinance the same as my current rate? Thanks!
Much of this will depend on what the closing costa are. Please provide what LenderFi has in Sections A, B, C, and E (or if on the initial screen vs. a Loan Estimate, what are the closing costs without counting “escrow” or “prepaid interest”).

Also, what’s the motivation for refinancing?
Do I have to complete an application first with LenderFi before I see sections A,B,C,E?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:34 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:47 pm Much of this will depend on what the closing costa are. Please provide what LenderFi has in Sections A, B, C, and E (or if on the initial screen vs. a Loan Estimate, what are the closing costs without counting “escrow” or “prepaid interest”).

Also, what’s the motivation for refinancing?
Do I have to complete an application first with LenderFi before I see sections A,B,C,E?
Yes, but prior to applying, you can click on the rate options and see the fee breakdown to get the same info.
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:16 pm
MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:34 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:47 pm Much of this will depend on what the closing costa are. Please provide what LenderFi has in Sections A, B, C, and E (or if on the initial screen vs. a Loan Estimate, what are the closing costs without counting “escrow” or “prepaid interest”).

Also, what’s the motivation for refinancing?
Do I have to complete an application first with LenderFi before I see sections A,B,C,E?
Yes, but prior to applying, you can click on the rate options and see the fee breakdown to get the same info.
Personally, I had to apply at LenderFi, then get the rates on the website. I don't think the website even gave me a detailed Loan Estimate yet, it told me I had to contact their guy for (elevated application approval?). Then I had to call the LenderFi guy assigned to me and ask if they can do better than what the website shows. He was much lower than what the website showed and he sent me a Loan Estimate. Then I took that new LenderFi estimate to Better, and Better beat it by $1k plus had the $2500 Amex credit. When I asked the LenderFi guy if he could compete with Better's new offer, he said to take the Better offer immediately. Northpointe, Rocket Mortgage, Aimloan, a local broker, and a few others I can't remember couldn't compete with Better's offer either when asked. Some seemed to think I was making up the Better offer to try and get them to match when just talking on the phone. When emailed the loan estimate from Better, no one responded via email with competing offers.

It is important to note that your Loan Estimate from Better (and maybe everyone? but I can only say for sure on Better) is only good for exactly 24 hours. They sent me one on a Sunday at 10am, and I had to get the rate locked by Monday at 10am or else they'd have to check their computer for new rates.

Also, Rocket Mortgage will only even consider competing on a Loan Estimate if you send them a Loan Estimate with today's date. If it's a Loan Estimate from yesterday, they won't do anything.
edudumb
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by edudumb »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:33 pm
Hoosier CPA wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:30 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:07 pm
Hoosier CPA wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:57 pm Better.com says they will match the rate, beat the costs and give me the $2,500 Amex credit. I'm dragging my feet because ... this local lender ... continue to service the loans, ... Is it crazy to stick with the existing lender for those reasons and pass up the $2,500? I've heard better.com will end up selling the loan and the servicing, and I don't know who I'd deal with after that...

Either way I'd have a nearly no cost refi, which is what I was seeking and the same rate. The difference would be the $2,500 Amex credit, and dealing with an unknown (to me) lender.
Personally, I think having different servicers and the mortgage moving around isn’t that big a deal. But it is something vs. “set it and forget it”. Also, I don’t have an escrow, so there is nothing to do other than send a monthly check.

Personally, I’d take the $2,500. But ultimately, you should do something where you won’t have trouble sleeping at night.
Thanks. I completed the Better application today to lock the rate - will still need to figure out what to do. I think I'll have a hard time passing up the $2,500 credit plus the negative closing costs, but I do value a local lender.
Just as a reference point, I closed with Better on 5/13 and funded 5/18. Around 5/27 I could see my account on The Money Source. As of 6/13, while I can still see my loan at TMS, I can see my loan at Wells Fargo and the MERS system shows WF as the servicer and investor of my loan. My first payment isn't until 7/1. I had the option to pay online for either of them, and ironically, had my WF checking account already set up to pay TMS monthly. I'll be changing that later this week once my paperwork for the loan transfer comes in (I haven't received official notice yet - I just happen to already have a WF account for it to show up automatically).
We closed around the same time. With the rates keep dropping, do you plan to do another refi anytime soon? I'm so tempted seeing this thread.
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

Gadget wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:36 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:16 pm
MapleSyrup wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:34 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:47 pm Much of this will depend on what the closing costa are. Please provide what LenderFi has in Sections A, B, C, and E (or if on the initial screen vs. a Loan Estimate, what are the closing costs without counting “escrow” or “prepaid interest”).

Also, what’s the motivation for refinancing?
Do I have to complete an application first with LenderFi before I see sections A,B,C,E?
Yes, but prior to applying, you can click on the rate options and see the fee breakdown to get the same info.
Personally, I had to apply at LenderFi, then get the rates on the website. I don't think the website even gave me a detailed Loan Estimate yet, it told me I had to contact their guy for (elevated application approval?). Then I had to call the LenderFi guy assigned to me and ask if they can do better than what the website shows. He was much lower than what the website showed and he sent me a Loan Estimate. Then I took that new LenderFi estimate to Better, and Better beat it by $1k plus had the $2500 Amex credit. When I asked the LenderFi guy if he could compete with Better's new offer, he said to take the Better offer immediately. Northpointe, Rocket Mortgage, Aimloan, a local broker, and a few others I can't remember couldn't compete with Better's offer either when asked. Some seemed to think I was making up the Better offer to try and get them to match when just talking on the phone. When emailed the loan estimate from Better, no one responded via email with competing offers.

It is important to note that your Loan Estimate from Better (and maybe everyone? but I can only say for sure on Better) is only good for exactly 24 hours. They sent me one on a Sunday at 10am, and I had to get the rate locked by Monday at 10am or else they'd have to check their computer for new rates.

Also, Rocket Mortgage will only even consider competing on a Loan Estimate if you send them a Loan Estimate with today's date. If it's a Loan Estimate from yesterday, they won't do anything.
Not 24 hours. Rates usually change over on weekday mornings. As the market is volatile these days, sometimes it is being changed mid-day.
edudumb
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by edudumb »

SEAworld9 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:12 pm Closed on 5/23, funded 5/29 via better with Amex deal at 3.375% on a super conforming/high balance loan. Just a call from another lender i had reached out to offering 2.99% no cost (would just need to fund impounds).

Tempted to do a couple hours of paperwork to drop this rate further and I don’t see anything in the loan docs that prevent an immediate refi with another lender nor anything in the Amex deal t&c that would disqualify the $2500 statement credit.

Anyone have experience with this?
We are on the same boat. Same rate, almost closed at same time. Wondering the same too.
jw2s
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jw2s »

frankandbeans wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:31 pm Closed today on an investment property refinance with Northpointe at 2.875/15y/0pts. About $3k closing costs; rolled everything in and took the max $2k cash out. It took about 70 days to close; process was slow but hassle-free. My thanks to the BH community for bringing Northpointe to my attention--nobody else has come within 0.25% of their rate/costs for this investment property refinance since I started looking.

There was one hiccup at the end that leads to this warning: carefully compare your closing disclosure with your loan estimate. The closing disclosure reflected transfer taxes about $300 higher than quoted on the loan estimate. The CFPB regs don’t allow transfer taxes to increase from the LE except in certain limited circumstances. I flagged the issue, citing the applicable reg, and they fixed it (as a “courtesy,” since nobody ever admits a violation). This ended up pushing closing back by another five days, but obviously worth the $300.

So just a reminder to me and everyone else—examine your closing disclosure closely and compare it side-by-side with the LE. Some parts can increase, some can increase by 10 percent, and some can’t increase at all.
I'll second this. When I received my Closing Disclosure, they doubled my taxes! Of course it was fixed, but it goes to show that these aren't infallible.

Closed on 30yr fixed conforming. 2.875%(2.888% APR)

A+B+C+E=$2,500. Title is $2,000 of that so that's a bear to, um, bear.

Knocked $200/month off my PITI so I'll pay myself back in a year. Was not the holy grail (no cost) but sub 3%, no points, no origination fee, and no appraisal. Rolled prepaid and escrow in. I'll throw my refunded escrow into principal when I get it. Skipped a month of payment so I'll throw that into the cauldron, too.

Reading all these other ppl with lender credits, no cost, even getting money back...but comparison is the thief of joy. I originally set out for sub 3, and got it for a reasonable price(in my mind).
invstar
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by invstar »

Is it worth paying off mortgage if you have cash available? I have 280k mortgage remaining and have around 150k cash in a bank account that's paying around 1%. My 15year term mortgage rate is 2.5%. I want to payoff 75k now towards my mortgage. Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think I can get a better mortgage than current one AND no savings rate that's better than the mortgage rate. Thanks.
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

frankandbeans wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:31 pm Closed today on an investment property refinance with Northpointe at 2.875/15y/0pts. About $3k closing costs; rolled everything in and took the max $2k cash out. It took about 70 days to close; process was slow but hassle-free. My thanks to the BH community for bringing Northpointe to my attention--nobody else has come within 0.25% of their rate/costs for this investment property refinance since I started looking.

There was one hiccup at the end that leads to this warning: carefully compare your closing disclosure with your loan estimate. The closing disclosure reflected transfer taxes about $300 higher than quoted on the loan estimate. The CFPB regs don’t allow transfer taxes to increase from the LE except in certain limited circumstances. I flagged the issue, citing the applicable reg, and they fixed it (as a “courtesy,” since nobody ever admits a violation). This ended up pushing closing back by another five days, but obviously worth the $300.

So just a reminder to me and everyone else—examine your closing disclosure closely and compare it side-by-side with the LE. Some parts can increase, some can increase by 10 percent, and some can’t increase at all.
Confused when you wrote regs don’t allow transfer tax to increase. Source?

Transfer tax is paid to government so if LE has incorrect transfer tax, I do not see why it can’t change to correct value on CD.

If on the other hand the CD had higher transfer tax that what it should be and it wasn’t caught at closing, the settlement agent is suppose to catch it post closing and cut you back a check for the difference.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Gadget wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:36 pm Personally, I had to apply at LenderFi, then get the rates on the website. I don't think the website even gave me a detailed Loan Estimate yet, it told me I had to contact their guy for (elevated application approval?). Then I had to call the LenderFi guy assigned to me and ask if they can do better than what the website shows. He was much lower than what the website showed and he sent me a Loan Estimate.
Meanwhile, when I did the same because of reports people saying the post-app estimate was much more competitive, it wasn't for me. The LE I got when applied matched exactly the breakdown on the website for me - which was not at all competitive compared to other offers (even before cross-shopping). But I guess I didn't fit their ideal borrower that day with my loan amount (~$150k) or some other criteria.
edudumb wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:52 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:33 pm I closed with Better on 5/13 and funded 5/18.
We closed around the same time. With the rates keep dropping, do you plan to do another refi anytime soon? I'm so tempted seeing this thread.
Once my Amex credit posts, I am open to refinancing again. I do not plan on doing it before my credit shows up though, just in case. When I was getting close to closing, I told myself I would be open to refinancing again for no-cost at 2.25% on a 15-year and that seems doable now.
SEAworld9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SEAworld9 »

edudumb wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:01 pm
SEAworld9 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:12 pm Closed on 5/23, funded 5/29 via better with Amex deal at 3.375% on a super conforming/high balance loan. Just a call from another lender i had reached out to offering 2.99% no cost (would just need to fund impounds).

Tempted to do a couple hours of paperwork to drop this rate further and I don’t see anything in the loan docs that prevent an immediate refi with another lender nor anything in the Amex deal t&c that would disqualify the $2500 statement credit.

Anyone have experience with this?
We are on the same boat. Same rate, almost closed at same time. Wondering the same too.
so i decided to go ahead and be the guinea pig for this - and ended up with a unicorn mortgage (which will probably become more common the in the coming weeks/months).

original mortgage balance: $633,126 (super conforming/high balance in my location). 30-year fixed. 74% LTV.

as mentioned above, just closed on 5/23, funded on 5/29 with better at 3.375% for a 30-year fixed on the amex deal. for that, A+B (waived appraisal)+C+E = $1,665.07 - $486 lender credits - $2,500 amex credit = -$1,320.93. waived appraisal. paid the prepaids/impounds out of pocket and purposefully scheduled the close/fund dates to minimize out of pocket prepaid interest. then have the escrow balance coming back to me from the original mortgage totaling ~$3k, which backfills the prepaids/impounds that i paid out of pocket on the refinance.

today, locked on a 30-year fixed with the same principal at 2.99% with a $4,748 lender credit (!!!!). A+B (waived appraisal)+C+E = $3,038.50 - $4,748 lender credit = -$1,709.50. will apply that to prepaids/impounds which i'll do out of pocket again, and after i get the prepaids/impounds and the prepaid insurance back from the first refi, i'll net out with about $1,400 in my pocket.

i could probably shop the LE that i just got for 1 day but have too much going on tomorrow and am happy with the rate and term so will just keep it for now. something must have changed in the high balance/agency jumbo market as until now the rates have been .5-.75 higher than regular conforming. i shopped extensively during the last refi and was able to get to 3.375% PAR only after getting better to match, and i got lucky with them matching a 2 day old LE (better had been at 3.625%). everyone else (11 different lenders) were between 3.5%-4.125% at the time.

lastly, i read through the amex statement credit full T&C and there's nothing about needing to keep the refinanced mortgage for a certain amount of time to get the $2,500 credit, only that you apply and close by certain dates and remain a cardholder. i'm not worried about this not coming through, but have a 60-day lock on the new loan and will be just about at the end of the 8-12 week timeframe that they give before the new loan will be funded. that said i'm planning on closing at the end of july.

crazy times we're living in.
Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

We purchased our home about six years ago and started with a 30y at 4.375%. Three years ago, we refinanced to a 20y at 3.375%. With today's record-low rates, I started looking into a 15y and was hoping to hit 2.5%.

Currently owe $235k with a house value of $380k.

I talked to Loan Depot, LenderFi, Better.com, Quicken, Cardinal and Mutual of Omaha, some of which I found through BankRate and NerdWallet aggregators.

LenderFi started off the competition in earnest with a 2.5% with no points and no fees.

Better beat them with a 2.5% with no points, no fees and $1600 in credits. Toss in the $2500 from Amex and that sounded pretty good! So I locked on Monday night, the lowest day for a 15y.

Loan Depot came back and asked to compete, but I told him about the Amex deal and he made a legit effort to match it: 2.5%, with net credits of $3000!!!

He was still $800 off from Better, but without the Amex rebate it was the best I've seen yet, so I passed it along to Better to see if they'll match it. And then, hopefully, I'll be able to toss the Amex rebate right back on top.

I'll update once they stop falling over themselves to PAY me to refinance.

Crazy times, indeed.
Seattler123
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Seattler123 »

Getting 30 year fixed at 3.125 with 0 points, 0 origination fee, appraisal waived for $620k loan in Seattle area (High balance non-jumbo conforming loan).
This is with a lender I got from Zillow (Sebonic). Still waiting to see if better.com can better this. Their current rates are showing up as 3.75%, so I'll be surprised if they can match this.

Previous mortgage:
06/2019 - Refinance with better.com. $630k loan at 3.75%
06/2018 - Purchase. $650k loan at 4.25%
frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:28 pm Confused when you wrote regs don’t allow transfer tax to increase. Source?

12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i).
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

I made a Bogleheads Mortgage Calculator in Excel. The first sheet shows an amortization table for your current mortgage, and gives an analysis of investing monthly at a given annual return vs putting extra principal payments into the mortgage. The second sheet takes what you entered from your current mortgage and lets you compare 3 different refinance options. It calculates the total savings of each refinance option if you had invested your monthly P&I savings, interest savings over the life of the loan, and any extra P&I payments added or reduced.

Anyone interested in this? I removed all VBA macros so it didn't get flagged as a security threat or anything. But I don't see a good way to post it here.

Someone should also double check my formulas. When using my mortgage, I think the amortization table and math checked out. But there might be other scenarios I'm not accounting for.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Brain wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:32 am We purchased our home about six years ago and started with a 30y at 4.375%. Three years ago, we refinanced to a 20y at 3.375%. With today's record-low rates, I started looking into a 15y and was hoping to hit 2.5%.

Currently owe $235k with a house value of $380k.

I talked to Loan Depot, LenderFi, Better.com, Quicken, Cardinal and Mutual of Omaha, some of which I found through BankRate and NerdWallet aggregators.

LenderFi started off the competition in earnest with a 2.5% with no points and no fees.

Better beat them with a 2.5% with no points, no fees and $1600 in credits. Toss in the $2500 from Amex and that sounded pretty good! So I locked on Monday night, the lowest day for a 15y.

Loan Depot came back and asked to compete, but I told him about the Amex deal and he made a legit effort to match it: 2.5%, with net credits of $3000!!!

He was still $800 off from Better, but without the Amex rebate it was the best I've seen yet, so I passed it along to Better to see if they'll match it. And then, hopefully, I'll be able to toss the Amex rebate right back on top.

I'll update once they stop falling over themselves to PAY me to refinance.

Crazy times, indeed.
Yup. I was within a few days of closing on a 30 year 3.125% no fee loan. I decided to try better and they brought me down to a 30 year 3% no fee plus the $2500 from AMEX which I locked. I went back to my original lender and said "I see stories of rates dropping, etc. can you do better." Received a no. Told him I'm moving forward with someone else. Now he's trying to match the offer from Better. I'm going to turn around and go straight back to Better if he matches. The fact that the $2500 from AMEX is always there makes it impossible for others to compete as long as Better plays ball.

I saw someone above had 2.75% with $3700 in credits from Better, plus the $2500 from AMEX. That is my goal.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LadyGeek »

Gadget wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:59 am I made a Bogleheads Mortgage Calculator in Excel. The first sheet shows an amortization table for your current mortgage, and gives an analysis of investing monthly at a given annual return vs putting extra principal payments into the mortgage. The second sheet takes what you entered from your current mortgage and lets you compare 3 different refinance options. It calculates the total savings of each refinance option if you had invested your monthly P&I savings, interest savings over the life of the loan, and any extra P&I payments added or reduced.

Anyone interested in this? I removed all VBA macros so it didn't get flagged as a security threat or anything. But I don't see a good way to post it here.

Someone should also double check my formulas. When using my mortgage, I think the amortization table and math checked out. But there might be other scenarios I'm not accounting for.
Sorry, we don't allow attachments in the forum. You can upload it to Google Drive or Dropbox and share the link.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Has anyone had their appraisal done from Better yet? The appraiser called me yesterday to setup appt and mentioned that he hasn't done very many like this (photos of every room, etc) and he expects to be here for 2 hours! It sounds more like an inspection vs an appraisal. I was kind of surprised they were doing one at all since I have great credit in a stable area and <60% LTV
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:13 am Has anyone had their appraisal done from Better yet? The appraiser called me yesterday to setup appt and mentioned that he hasn't done very many like this (photos of every room, etc) and he expects to be here for 2 hours! It sounds more like an inspection vs an appraisal. I was kind of surprised they were doing one at all since I have great credit in a stable area and <60% LTV
Had mine yesterday. He was here maybe 15 minutes. Maybe your house is 8x larger than mine though.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Its about 2700 sq ft - I'm wondering if its due to the fact that the tax records show we only paid $100K (we bought the land and then built a house) -perhaps going from $100K to $400K in 4 years triggered something
insahmniak
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by insahmniak »

Brain wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:32 am
Better beat them with a 2.5% with no points, no fees and $1600 in credits. Toss in the $2500 from Amex and that sounded pretty good! So I locked on Monday night, the lowest day for a 15y.

Loan Depot came back and asked to compete, but I told him about the Amex deal and he made a legit effort to match it: 2.5%, with net credits of $3000!!!

He was still $800 off from Better, but without the Amex rebate it was the best I've seen yet, so I passed it along to Better to see if they'll match it. And then, hopefully, I'll be able to toss the Amex rebate right back on top.

I'll update once they stop falling over themselves to PAY me to refinance.

Crazy times, indeed.
Quick question from someone new to this:

After locking it's still possible to negotiate even better terms with another competing LE? I locked with Better a week ago.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
You need to receive a targeted e-mail to be eligible for the offer as I understand it. No guarantee signing up for a card will trigger the offer.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
You need to receive a targeted e-mail to be eligible for the offer as I understand it. No guarantee signing up for a card will trigger the offer.
I wasn't targeted. Seems like quite a few members on here was able to get the bonus without being targeted. Hopefully when I bring it up to my better rep that he approves. I'll sign up for the card anyways and roll the dice.
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

Bogleheads Mortgage Calculator

Here's my mortgage calculator/refinance spreadsheet. It's an Excel file, but with my new version Google Docs seems to automatically adjust for all the formulas if you save it as a Google Sheets document. If you want the Excel version, just download it. There are no macros or links in the spreadsheet for security reasons, even though my VBA macros were originally easier to calculate some of this.

I think it's relatively straightforward. I formatted everything a user enters in yellow. Purple highlights are calculated automatically. Start with the "Current Mortgage" worksheet first to get all your current info. Then move to the "Refinance" worksheet and enter data there. If you want to play with the analysis that takes into account extra principal paid each month, then just look at the "Current Mortgage" sheet. I'm not sure my Refinance sheet will accurately take into account extra principal paid on its investment analysis for the comparison. It made my head hurt comparing too many variables at once.

If anyone finds it useful, let me know. I don't guarantee any of the numbers yet. Someone should probably check over that, but I think it's correct...

I tried to make myself anonymous when posting this. If someone smarter than me finds out I failed, please PM me...
ma21n2
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ma21n2 »

I already did appraisal with Better.com and have the report, but I may have to find a new lender now because Better.com has some issue with my 2nd mortgage that I’m keeping. They were supposed to let me know whether they can proceed by yesterday, but they didn’t. Better.com was really good when they wanted my business but then after I locked it’s been a completely different experience. The processing expert doesn’t respond to my emails and doesn’t call me when we have an appointment.

Thankfully I didn’t have to pay for appraisal because of the AMEX deal. If I switch lenders now, would I be able to transfer the appraisal from Better.com to the new lender?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:36 am
Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
You need to receive a targeted e-mail to be eligible for the offer as I understand it. No guarantee signing up for a card will trigger the offer.
I wasn't targeted. Seems like quite a few members on here was able to get the bonus without being targeted. Hopefully when I bring it up to my better rep that he approves. I'll sign up for the card anyways and roll the dice.
In 2019 and Jan-Feb of 2020, it was targeted. Since then, Amex reps when called have been (usually) telling folks it is available to all card members who use the link.
Monsterflockster
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Monsterflockster »

The thread title of this thread should be changed to “how to get $2500 in refinancing from better.com as it’s no longer about rates. 😂
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

frankandbeans wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:55 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:28 pm Confused when you wrote regs don’t allow transfer tax to increase. Source?

12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i).
Is your transfer tax is section C or E of CD? It should be section E and if so, 12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i) doesn’t apply as it is not a settlement service; it’s a tax.
frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

seawolf21 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:56 am
frankandbeans wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:55 am
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:28 pm Confused when you wrote regs don’t allow transfer tax to increase. Source?

12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i).
Is your transfer tax is section C or E of CD? It should be section E and if so, 12 CFR 1026.19(e)(3)(i) doesn’t apply as it is not a settlement service; it’s a tax.
CFPB is explicit about this in its official comment to the rule. It sounds like you disagree with CFPB's interpretation of its regulations but I think that's beyond the scope of the forum rules.

1. Requirement. Section 1026.19(e)(3)(i) provides the general rule that an estimated closing cost disclosed under § 1026.19(e) is not in good faith if the charge paid by or imposed on the consumer exceeds the amount originally disclosed under § 1026.19(e)(1)(i). Although § 1026.19(e)(3)(ii) and (iii) provide exceptions to the general rule, the charges that are generally subject to § 1026.19(e)(3)(i) include, but are not limited to, the following:

i. Fees paid to the creditor.

ii. Fees paid to a mortgage broker.

iii. Fees paid to an affiliate of the creditor or a mortgage broker.

iv. Fees paid to an unaffiliated third party if the creditor did not permit the consumer to shop for a third party service provider for a settlement service.

v. Transfer taxes.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Monsterflockster wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:56 am The thread title of this thread should be changed to “how to get $2500 in refinancing from better.com as it’s no longer about rates. 😂
Sorry. I've been a big contributor to that distraction. I do intend on actually having it focused on sharing the best deals vs. being specific about one lender. :oops:
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:54 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:36 am
Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am I just read that American Express Small Business Cards is not eligible. Bummer. I should learn to read the details before jumping the gun.

Has anyone applied recently for Blue cash everyday card and gotten approved for the $2500 better deal?

Thanks
You need to receive a targeted e-mail to be eligible for the offer as I understand it. No guarantee signing up for a card will trigger the offer.
I wasn't targeted. Seems like quite a few members on here was able to get the bonus without being targeted. Hopefully when I bring it up to my better rep that he approves. I'll sign up for the card anyways and roll the dice.
In 2019 and Jan-Feb of 2020, it was targeted. Since then, Amex reps when called have been (usually) telling folks it is available to all card members who use the link.
Thanks Brandonbogle for always answering my questions, Appreciate you
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