DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
- NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I am interested in opinions on the best way to honor my Mother's name with a scholarship.
Here's what I'm thinking I may want to do:
1. Create a Donor Advised Fund ("DAF") and contribute ~4k shares with a basis of $2 and value of $100. As I understand it this should give me a $392k donation to write off against my income assuming my AGI is over 1.2M, if not there's a 5 year carry forward
2. Create a 501(c)(3) in my late Mother's name that my family (sisters, father, kids, and I) control. One of the questions is *if* I can control any part of it and how much/what %
3. Create a scholarship for kids from my high school that go to my college; and have my extended family pick the scholarship recipient.
I like this approach better than a high school or University scholarship because I want my family to choose the recipient; not another group.
I don't intend to enrich myself or our family other than in choosing the recipients which shall not be family.
Is this kosher and copacetic? Can I get the tax write off to the DAF, and then use that money to fund a 501(c)(3) for proper charity of scholarship over time?
The scholarship approach would be to put the $392k in a diversified portfolio that grows by 4% per year, and offer a $16k scholarship, with $4k/year (so at year 4, we have 4x$4k out the door, $16k, in which case, in theory, the scholarship is endowed).
Perhaps there's a better way you can recommend?
Thanks!
Here's what I'm thinking I may want to do:
1. Create a Donor Advised Fund ("DAF") and contribute ~4k shares with a basis of $2 and value of $100. As I understand it this should give me a $392k donation to write off against my income assuming my AGI is over 1.2M, if not there's a 5 year carry forward
2. Create a 501(c)(3) in my late Mother's name that my family (sisters, father, kids, and I) control. One of the questions is *if* I can control any part of it and how much/what %
3. Create a scholarship for kids from my high school that go to my college; and have my extended family pick the scholarship recipient.
I like this approach better than a high school or University scholarship because I want my family to choose the recipient; not another group.
I don't intend to enrich myself or our family other than in choosing the recipients which shall not be family.
Is this kosher and copacetic? Can I get the tax write off to the DAF, and then use that money to fund a 501(c)(3) for proper charity of scholarship over time?
The scholarship approach would be to put the $392k in a diversified portfolio that grows by 4% per year, and offer a $16k scholarship, with $4k/year (so at year 4, we have 4x$4k out the door, $16k, in which case, in theory, the scholarship is endowed).
Perhaps there's a better way you can recommend?
Thanks!
-- |
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein |
*Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Watching
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Generally, it is important to understand that once you provide a donation to a DAF, you lose final control of where it would go. This lack of final control includes the DAF sponsor reviewing grant recommendations and potentially denying them. My experience with Fidelity's DAF is that it does not permit grants to organizations that the grantor controls. This may be intended to avoid IRS investigation into whether grantors use Fidelity's DAF for abusive practices (avoiding tax and then giving benefits to family members in some way). If other large DAF organizations have the same policy, you would not be able to take this approach.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:31 am I am interested in opinions on the best way to honor my Mother's name with a scholarship.
Here's what I'm thinking I may want to do:
1. Create a Donor Advised Fund ("DAF") and contribute ~4k shares with a basis of $2 and value of $100. As I understand it this should give me a $392k donation to write off against my income assuming my AGI is over 1.2M, if not there's a 5 year carry forward
2. Create a 501(c)(3) in my late Mother's name that my family (sisters, father, kids, and I) control. One of the questions is *if* I can control any part of it and how much/what %
3. Create a scholarship for kids from my high school that go to my college; and have my extended family pick the scholarship recipient.
I like this approach better than a high school or University scholarship because I want my family to choose the recipient; not another group.
I don't intend to enrich myself or our family other than in choosing the recipients which shall not be family.
Is this kosher and copacetic? Can I get the tax write off to the DAF, and then use that money to fund a 501(c)(3) for proper charity of scholarship over time?
The scholarship approach would be to put the $392k in a diversified portfolio that grows by 4% per year, and offer a $16k scholarship, with $4k/year (so at year 4, we have 4x$4k out the door, $16k, in which case, in theory, the scholarship is endowed).
Perhaps there's a better way you can recommend?
Thanks!
That said, you may be able to put a family member in charge of a DAF with your mother's name and then use that to recommend grants to a university used to fund a scholarship. I'm not sure how that would work, but you could discuss it with the university and DAF sponsor. Another approach is that you could donate the stock directly to a charitable organization that sponsors the scholarship, which may be the university or another organization. Note that if you control a 501(c)(3) that is not a public charity, there will be additional restrictions on the charitable deduction you can take for your donation of appreciated property.
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
From an article on a website...
https://www.pgcalc.com/support/knowledg ... stly-donts
I would walk your donation thru the itemized deductions form and make sure they are taken as 30% deductions (up to 40% of AGI). Only the amount above your standard deduction (including taxes, interest, etc) will be deducted, and at a max of 30% of your AGI... and as you note, carry forward.
So if you are already itemizing then the full 30% amount of your AGI will be deducted each year... if not, the amount needed to get past the standard deduction will dent you slightly.
Mike
https://www.pgcalc.com/support/knowledg ... stly-donts
so as long as you are not on the selection committee and don't have any control... seems like it passes muster.A grant from a DAF cannot be made to or for the benefit of a certain individual, such as for tuition, a scholarship, or other required fees. For example, a grant cannot be made where the donor has discretion as to which student is to receive a scholarship. Also, grants cannot be made directly to individuals.
I would walk your donation thru the itemized deductions form and make sure they are taken as 30% deductions (up to 40% of AGI). Only the amount above your standard deduction (including taxes, interest, etc) will be deducted, and at a max of 30% of your AGI... and as you note, carry forward.
So if you are already itemizing then the full 30% amount of your AGI will be deducted each year... if not, the amount needed to get past the standard deduction will dent you slightly.
Mike
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Why use a DAF at all? Why not just create the scholarship charity and donate the shares directly to it?
I agree that there may be problems in using Fidelity DAF as a pass-through.
I’m definitely not a tax expert, so I’ll be watching this thread when those who are experts weigh in. I truly don’t know if either idea will pass tax scrutiny.
I agree that there may be problems in using Fidelity DAF as a pass-through.
I’m definitely not a tax expert, so I’ll be watching this thread when those who are experts weigh in. I truly don’t know if either idea will pass tax scrutiny.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
- NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
This is helpful feedback. For the avoidance of doubt, my intention is to minimize taxes on the charitable benefit to others. I intend to be moral ethical and legal and follow IRS guidelines and rules.
The reason for using a DAF is that the DAF gives us optionality control over the future spend of the money for charity. Perhaps college costs go to 1/4th of what they are, or 10x what they are and a scholarship is not the best way to honor my mother in the future.
As a theory, it sounds likes I could instruct the DAF to donate to a 501(c)(3) controlled by people other than me which could be my family members, and they would choose the recipient. With the language in the guidelines, it sounds like while the DAF's donation cannot be for a specific person, it can be for a scholarship fund, which then later picks a specific person?
At the risk of "methinks she doth protest too much" - the intention is to publicize the scholarship and have unknown 3rd parties apply and award a scholarship to them. Perhaps the candidate pool is from High School X (300 graduates per year) to local University. I do not intend for this action to award the scholarship to friends or family.
The reason for using a DAF is that the DAF gives us optionality control over the future spend of the money for charity. Perhaps college costs go to 1/4th of what they are, or 10x what they are and a scholarship is not the best way to honor my mother in the future.
As a theory, it sounds likes I could instruct the DAF to donate to a 501(c)(3) controlled by people other than me which could be my family members, and they would choose the recipient. With the language in the guidelines, it sounds like while the DAF's donation cannot be for a specific person, it can be for a scholarship fund, which then later picks a specific person?
At the risk of "methinks she doth protest too much" - the intention is to publicize the scholarship and have unknown 3rd parties apply and award a scholarship to them. Perhaps the candidate pool is from High School X (300 graduates per year) to local University. I do not intend for this action to award the scholarship to friends or family.
-- |
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*Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
- NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Ignorant question. I am under the impression that if my AGI is > $1.2M and I contribute $400k to a DAF in the same year, I can reduce my income by $400k; which will effectively avoid 37% tax on $400k, saving me $148k in taxes.fabdog wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:43 am I would walk your donation thru the itemized deductions form and make sure they are taken as 30% deductions (up to 40% of AGI). Only the amount above your standard deduction (including taxes, interest, etc) will be deducted, and at a max of 30% of your AGI... and as you note, carry forward.
Is that generally correct?
I'm confused because it's not clear if I can only use a portion of the $400k DAF contribution to reduce taxes?
In this manner, as I think about it - I'm able to contribute a full $400k to charity, not "only" $252k ($400k-$148k in taxes). That is the desire to run the contribution through a DAF, to multiply the scale of the contribution.
-- |
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein |
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I am not an expert, but most legal frameworks define control to include informal control exercised through family members. I am skeptical it would to have the 501(c)(3) controlled by family members.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:51 am This is helpful feedback. For the avoidance of doubt, my intention is to minimize taxes on the charitable benefit to others. I intend to be moral ethical and legal and follow IRS guidelines and rules.
The reason for using a DAF is that the DAF gives us optionality control over the future spend of the money for charity. Perhaps college costs go to 1/4th of what they are, or 10x what they are and a scholarship is not the best way to honor my mother in the future.
As a theory, it sounds likes I could instruct the DAF to donate to a 501(c)(3) controlled by people other than me which could be my family members, and they would choose the recipient. With the language in the guidelines, it sounds like while the DAF's donation cannot be for a specific person, it can be for a scholarship fund, which then later picks a specific person?
At the risk of "methinks she doth protest too much" - the intention is to publicize the scholarship and have unknown 3rd parties apply and award a scholarship to them. Perhaps the candidate pool is from High School X (300 graduates per year) to local University. I do not intend for this action to award the scholarship to friends or family.
- NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I think you are right. The PDF from Fidelity here says:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... OOlqMpUgTr
So while it appears that the donor can have have direct or indirect control of the 501(c)(3) making the scholarship; neither the donor nor familial related persons can have strong input on the scholarship decision.Selection of Scholars
Managed by the public charity
Donor and/or related persons cannot have sole or majority discretion regarding recipients
Anyone have more specific experience or information - sure appreciate it!
First part here is getting the tax advantage, 2nd is getting to the 501(c)(3); 3rd part is properly deciding who to give it to.
I imagine we could hire a trustee to make the decision with an advisory input from my and family members, perhaps?
Big question is where's the line between advisory input, informal control, and actual control....?
-- |
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein |
*Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Have you actually talked with the university? I would expect they deal with this often and would have some affiliate to hold the assets but let you control scholarship recipients.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:09 amI think you are right. The PDF from Fidelity here says:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... OOlqMpUgTr
So while it appears that the donor can have have direct or indirect control of the 501(c)(3) making the scholarship; neither the donor nor familial related persons can have strong input on the scholarship decision.Selection of Scholars
Managed by the public charity
Donor and/or related persons cannot have sole or majority discretion regarding recipients
Anyone have more specific experience or information - sure appreciate it!
First part here is getting the tax advantage, 2nd is getting to the 501(c)(3); 3rd part is properly deciding who to give it to.
I imagine we could hire a trustee to make the decision with an advisory input from my and family members, perhaps?
Big question is where's the line between advisory input, informal control, and actual control....?
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Yes, the DAF (or donating the appreciated shares directly to a charity) allows you to bypass the tax on the gains on the appreciated shares. As noted above, it may be easier to just simply get a local foundation to agree to administer the scholarship under guidelines you set up, and donate the shares to them. The full $400K value (or whatever FMV was at date of donation) is available to deductIgnorant question. I am under the impression that if my AGI is > $1.2M and I contribute $400k to a DAF in the same year, I can reduce my income by $400k; which will effectively avoid 37% tax on $400k, saving me $148k in taxes.
Is that generally correct?
I'm confused because it's not clear if I can only use a portion of the $400k DAF contribution to reduce taxes?
In this manner, as I think about it - I'm able to contribute a full $400k to charity, not "only" $252k ($400k-$148k in taxes). That is the desire to run the contribution through a DAF, to multiply the scale of the contribution.
If you sold the shares instead, you'd pay capital gains on them, not regular income tax at 37% (most likely 23.8%, top cap gains rate plus the NIIT) plus any state tax. So your donation strategy is sound from a tax perspective
Just at a high level, 30% of 1.2 million is $360,000, so that would be the max you could deduct on appreciated stock is AGI was $1.2 million. It gets more complex, which is why I recommended running it thru tax forms (using software easiest) as that assumes that was the only charitable contribution you made that year (any others need to be taken into account). As you noted, any overage is carried forward
Mike
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Your university's development office would be delighted to speak with you. They could run through your options using the approach you describe. They could also offer alternatives that may get you close to what you want. They are professionals and know rules. the tax laws and what methods other donors have used.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
It sounds like a DAF may not work because the DAF sponsor will insist on ultimate review and control of grants funded by your donation.
Forming your own charity could be too expensive, and legal requirements for board membership may still frustrate your desire to retain family selection of recipients. Two alternatives to pursue are funding a scholarship directly with your alma mater and funding it with an earmarked donation to a local or regional charitable foundation. Most states, and many cities, have recognized foundations that receive and manage funds for community development and support.
Even with your alma mater or a local charitable foundation, donating funds for the scholarship but retaining control over choosing the recipients could be a sticking point. You'll just have to explore the possibilities. One concern you will encounter is the bite each organization will want to take out of your donation. It is quite possible a local charitable organization would take a smaller bite. Colleges and universities are interested in funding their overall operating expense as well as funding your scholarship; they may want to take 20% or more "off the top", leaving less than you have hoped for to fund annual support to scholarship recipients.
Forming your own charity could be too expensive, and legal requirements for board membership may still frustrate your desire to retain family selection of recipients. Two alternatives to pursue are funding a scholarship directly with your alma mater and funding it with an earmarked donation to a local or regional charitable foundation. Most states, and many cities, have recognized foundations that receive and manage funds for community development and support.
Even with your alma mater or a local charitable foundation, donating funds for the scholarship but retaining control over choosing the recipients could be a sticking point. You'll just have to explore the possibilities. One concern you will encounter is the bite each organization will want to take out of your donation. It is quite possible a local charitable organization would take a smaller bite. Colleges and universities are interested in funding their overall operating expense as well as funding your scholarship; they may want to take 20% or more "off the top", leaving less than you have hoped for to fund annual support to scholarship recipients.
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
+1afan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 pm Your university's development office would be delighted to speak with you. They could run through your options using the approach you describe. They could also offer alternatives that may get you close to what you want. They are professionals and know rules. the tax laws and what methods other donors have used.
If you know you want the money to go to a particular university, they will be happy to work with you to develop a setup you're happy with. In particular, it shouldn't be a problem to have it so that your family is involved in choosing the recipients. They may have their own constraints (they have to answer to the IRS, too) such as having some non-family members involved in the selection to keep it above board. It certainly doesn't hurt to talk with them first to figure out what they can do.
Having them involved will save a lot of the paperwork and cost you would have in running your own charity. The only downside is that it would limit your ability to redirect the money to a different purpose entirely.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I don't think there is a need for the DAF, and it seems to unnecessarily handcuff you. You can donate directly to your 501(c)(3) and receive the same tax benefits. The 501(c)(3) can then invest the money in the same manner your DAF would have.
The only downside I see is that the 501(c)(3) will have a requirement to distribute X% of its assets annually in grants (I believe ~5%) which may be more than you wanted. However, you can just keep some of the money invested outside of the foundation and slowly donate it over time. Since you are donating the appreciated stock, you are not paying taxes on the investment gains anyways. If anything you are increasing your tax benefit because it will be a larger deduction (assuming it continues to appreciate).
The only downside I see is that the 501(c)(3) will have a requirement to distribute X% of its assets annually in grants (I believe ~5%) which may be more than you wanted. However, you can just keep some of the money invested outside of the foundation and slowly donate it over time. Since you are donating the appreciated stock, you are not paying taxes on the investment gains anyways. If anything you are increasing your tax benefit because it will be a larger deduction (assuming it continues to appreciate).
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
A 501(c)3 corporation cannot exist for the purpose of private benefit: the benefit MUST be a public one.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:09 am Anyone have more specific experience or information - sure appreciate it!
First part here is getting the tax advantage, 2nd is getting to the 501(c)(3); 3rd part is properly deciding who to give it to.
I imagine we could hire a trustee to make the decision with an advisory input from my and family members, perhaps?
Big question is where's the line between advisory input, informal control, and actual control....?
So the restriction actually goes further than simply preventing the family from controlling the decisions of the 501(c)3. To the extent that any the donor to a 501(c)3 receives ANY material (direct or indirect) personal benefit as a result of their donation, the tax-deductibility of the donation is reduced by an amount equivalent to the value of the benefit.
In other words, if person A donates $100 to a 501(c)3 organization and that organization turns around an gives a $100 scholarship to the brother/child/granddaughter or the donor then person A can deduct $0 (i.e. none) of their donation on their taxes.
I am not a tax attorney, but I've worked for (and set up) several 501(c)3 organizations. The IRS is neither vague nor ambivalent on this topic.
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I did not get the impression the OP wanted to direct the scholarship to relatives. I thought the goal was to choose the recipients, who would be unrelated.
Being able to make those choices limits flexibility otherwise. How important is it beyond the requirement that the students be from your high school and attend your university? If you leave it at that, then you could probably make a direct donation to the university, which would use it as you want.
One could speculate all day about ways to accomplish these goals. Far better to talk with experts.
Being able to make those choices limits flexibility otherwise. How important is it beyond the requirement that the students be from your high school and attend your university? If you leave it at that, then you could probably make a direct donation to the university, which would use it as you want.
One could speculate all day about ways to accomplish these goals. Far better to talk with experts.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either |
--Swedroe |
We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right |
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
We have both a DAF at Schwab and a 501c3 operating foundation. In theory you could do all of this but the cost of the foundation is going to be an issue. You will have to pay to set it up, annually pay for insurance, state filing fees, accounting fees, etc. It's possible you could do most of this yourself or have someone on the board do it to keep the costs down. Donate to your DAF as planned and then direct the money to a university or find someone with a 501c3 who will administer the scholarships for you.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Agreed. In this case I believe what I plan to do is for the public benefit, as we are awarding a scholarship to a 3rd party person initially unknown to us that is not a family member, taken from a pool that may be similar to FROM High School X GOING TO College Y.
Thanks for the input, I don't plan to do the things you say are naughty.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I think you might be right.mgensler wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:12 pm We have both a DAF at Schwab and a 501c3 operating foundation. In theory you could do all of this but the cost of the foundation is going to be an issue. You will have to pay to set it up, annually pay for insurance, state filing fees, accounting fees, etc. It's possible you could do most of this yourself or have someone on the board do it to keep the costs down. Donate to your DAF as planned and then direct the money to a university or find someone with a 501c3 who will administer the scholarships for you.
Putting the money in the DAF gets the tax deduction and preserves future optionality for decisions at the last responsible moment.
AFAIK nothing is stopping us from setting up a group of volunteers that forms an informal search committee who decides where we award the DAF money; and perhaps we could donate to the University with a restriction for the money to benefit the selected (by the committee, not by us) for the scholarship?
-- |
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein |
*Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Sounds fine as long as the university can handle this. If not, just find a 501c3 who will do it. There are plenty out there.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:13 pmI think you might be right.mgensler wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:12 pm We have both a DAF at Schwab and a 501c3 operating foundation. In theory you could do all of this but the cost of the foundation is going to be an issue. You will have to pay to set it up, annually pay for insurance, state filing fees, accounting fees, etc. It's possible you could do most of this yourself or have someone on the board do it to keep the costs down. Donate to your DAF as planned and then direct the money to a university or find someone with a 501c3 who will administer the scholarships for you.
Putting the money in the DAF gets the tax deduction and preserves future optionality for decisions at the last responsible moment.
AFAIK nothing is stopping us from setting up a group of volunteers that forms an informal search committee who decides where we award the DAF money; and perhaps we could donate to the University with a restriction for the money to benefit the selected (by the committee, not by us) for the scholarship?
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
You seem very set on using the DAF, but you need to talk with the university and explore other options first because you will cede some control to DAF if you just send the money there.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:13 pmI think you might be right.mgensler wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:12 pm We have both a DAF at Schwab and a 501c3 operating foundation. In theory you could do all of this but the cost of the foundation is going to be an issue. You will have to pay to set it up, annually pay for insurance, state filing fees, accounting fees, etc. It's possible you could do most of this yourself or have someone on the board do it to keep the costs down. Donate to your DAF as planned and then direct the money to a university or find someone with a 501c3 who will administer the scholarships for you.
Putting the money in the DAF gets the tax deduction and preserves future optionality for decisions at the last responsible moment.
AFAIK nothing is stopping us from setting up a group of volunteers that forms an informal search committee who decides where we award the DAF money; and perhaps we could donate to the University with a restriction for the money to benefit the selected (by the committee, not by us) for the scholarship?
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
With respect, why is it so important that you and/or your family members pick the recipients?NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:12 pmAgreed. In this case I believe what I plan to do is for the public benefit, as we are awarding a scholarship to a 3rd party person initially unknown to us that is not a family member, taken from a pool that may be similar to FROM High School X GOING TO College Y.
Thanks for the input, I don't plan to do the things you say are naughty.
If you insert conditions in the scholarship (first in family to attend college; member of specific faith group; whatever), isn’t that enough?
I would not want to do the picking. We all have preferences and biases, many of which we are unaware, and I wouldn’t want to choose one person over another when some of these unconscious feelings might be in play.
It is very generous of you to want to honor your mother this way.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Reason 1 - My wife works in academia and serves on scholarship committees (to choose who gets scholarships). Her experience is that many others a/ do not enjoy the experience b/ do not take it seriously c/ make poor decisionsbayview wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:25 pm With respect, why is it so important that you and/or your family members pick the recipients?
If you insert conditions in the scholarship (first in family to attend college; member of specific faith group; whatever), isn’t that enough?
I would not want to do the picking. We all have preferences and biases, many of which we are unaware, and I wouldn’t want to choose one person over another when some of these unconscious feelings might be in play.
It is very generous of you to want to honor your mother this way.
Reason 2 - I prefer my unconscious biases over others
Reason 3 - The Golden Rule v. 2 - "Whoever has the gold, makes the rules!!"
Reason 4 - The Golden Rule v. 1 - "Treat others as you'd like to be treated" - I wasn't able to get any scholarships because of certain choices and traits - I am excluding those issues from my decision making criteria. In practice, the guidelines will/would be given to the arm's length scholarship committee who will make the decisions.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
In comparing a DAF over your own PF (501c3 private foundation) compare the costs and control:
DAF less control
DAF fees (% of assets charged annually?)
PF more control
PF costs & considerations include:
1. File Form 1023 to form a PF with scholarship intention
2. Legal fees for formation documents
3. File Form 990PF annually (pay a CPA)
4. Each year the PF pays 1.39% excise tax on net investment income. No carryover of losses
5. When any gains are realized by the PF on selling the stock you funded the PF with (component of PF's net investment income), the 1.39% excise tax is due on the gain over your original cost basis
6. About 5% of the average of the monthly averages of the FMV must be distributed by the end of the following year, each year.
DAF less control
DAF fees (% of assets charged annually?)
PF more control
PF costs & considerations include:
1. File Form 1023 to form a PF with scholarship intention
2. Legal fees for formation documents
3. File Form 990PF annually (pay a CPA)
4. Each year the PF pays 1.39% excise tax on net investment income. No carryover of losses
5. When any gains are realized by the PF on selling the stock you funded the PF with (component of PF's net investment income), the 1.39% excise tax is due on the gain over your original cost basis
6. About 5% of the average of the monthly averages of the FMV must be distributed by the end of the following year, each year.
Last edited by Flora on Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
- NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
This is excellent and helpful - thank you.
I am told that AEF and Fidelity have always followed the advice of the donor, as long as it's legal - does anyone have any falsifying examples?
- AEF fees are 1% < $1M
Fidelity is 0.6% + 0..015% to 0.99% (investment fees on mutual funds)
Vanguard is 0.6% < $500k
It looks like a Private Foundation is limited to 20% of the AGI for tax deduction with the 5 year carry forward, so I'd probably still be okay. Maybe Private Foundation is the way to go.
Thanks!
-- |
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein |
*Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
I am a little rusty on this, but in my career in no-profits I recall that there are certain operational requirements that must be met in order to qualify for the favorable tax treatment of the 501(c)(3) designation. The 501 designation defines a public charity. A public charity must file an informational 990 tax return each year. The 990 must describe the sources of funds for the charity. There must be a reasonable number/amount of donations from the “public”, i.e. not from only one person or family. I believe there also must be a board consisting of people other than the donor or donor’s family. It doesn’t sound as if what you are trying to do is consistent with these rules. So you could go with a private foundation structure (tax treatment not quite so favorable), or look into establishing your scholarship program as a component of a university endowment or a community foundation. I believe a community foundation is your best option.
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Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Here’s a link to a Fidelity Charitable pdf that explains a few options for using a DAF to support scholarships.
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/cont ... cation.pdf
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/cont ... cation.pdf
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
That’s a really good document for OP.JonnyBeRetired wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:02 am Here’s a link to a Fidelity Charitable pdf that explains a few options for using a DAF to support scholarships.
https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/cont ... cation.pdf
I expect that the rules for Fidelity DAF would be pretty much the same for other DAFs.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Resurrecting a 1.5year old Zombie….to ask the OP: what did you wind up doing?NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:19 amReason 1 - My wife works in academia and serves on scholarship committees (to choose who gets scholarships). Her experience is that many others a/ do not enjoy the experience b/ do not take it seriously c/ make poor decisionsbayview wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:25 pm With respect, why is it so important that you and/or your family members pick the recipients?
If you insert conditions in the scholarship (first in family to attend college; member of specific faith group; whatever), isn’t that enough?
I would not want to do the picking. We all have preferences and biases, many of which we are unaware, and I wouldn’t want to choose one person over another when some of these unconscious feelings might be in play.
It is very generous of you to want to honor your mother this way.
Reason 2 - I prefer my unconscious biases over others
Reason 3 - The Golden Rule v. 2 - "Whoever has the gold, makes the rules!!"
Reason 4 - The Golden Rule v. 1 - "Treat others as you'd like to be treated" - I wasn't able to get any scholarships because of certain choices and traits - I am excluding those issues from my decision making criteria. In practice, the guidelines will/would be given to the arm's length scholarship committee who will make the decisions.
I have the same desire to setup a scholarship with what some would view as idiosyncratic (x, y & z) selection criteria.
Don’t want to the the selector, not a George Costanza type of thing.
Thanks, in advance, for your reply.
- NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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- Location: Midwest
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Hired an attorney to create a c-corp, make it non-profit, and work with IRS to get 501(c)(3) status and permission to grant scholarships. This required some paperwork and decisions.phxjcc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:57 pm Resurrecting a 1.5year old Zombie….to ask the OP: what did you wind up doing?
I have the same desire to setup a scholarship with what some would view as idiosyncratic (x, y & z) selection criteria.
Don’t want to the the selector, not a George Costanza type of thing.
Thanks, in advance, for your reply.
Contributed ~10% of net worth which gave a nice tax write off. Gave our first scholarship after selecting ~6 friends and family to serve on the scholarship committee which chose the beneficiary from ~10 applicants.
Worked out well.
If you don't want control of choice, I imagine you don't need to take the private foundation approach - you could just approach a University to do it. Or have my foundation do it for you according to your criteria
-- |
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein |
*Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
This is what we have done in the past - not sure if it will help you. When we set up named endowed scholarships at our colleges/universities we met and negotiated with them the selection criteria that the school would use to select beneficiaries of the scholarship - we have zero input as to who the school selects as recipients each year.
We made an initial pledge/commitment to the university to fund it over a certain number of years. We started funding it through direct donations of appreciated mutual funds initially, but for many years now have been using a DAF that we set up at Fidelity to donate to the scholarship. We have had no problems with our recommended contributions from the DAF, being approved by Fidelity, and going to the named scholarship at the university.
The one thing that I seem to recall is that you can not use a DAF to satisfy a legally binding personal pledge, but the university used verbiage in our agreement that avoids that issue (such as the donors intend to fund a scholarship) or some other statement that meets the legal criteria and allows the DAF funds to go toward the scholarship.
We made an initial pledge/commitment to the university to fund it over a certain number of years. We started funding it through direct donations of appreciated mutual funds initially, but for many years now have been using a DAF that we set up at Fidelity to donate to the scholarship. We have had no problems with our recommended contributions from the DAF, being approved by Fidelity, and going to the named scholarship at the university.
The one thing that I seem to recall is that you can not use a DAF to satisfy a legally binding personal pledge, but the university used verbiage in our agreement that avoids that issue (such as the donors intend to fund a scholarship) or some other statement that meets the legal criteria and allows the DAF funds to go toward the scholarship.
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
Two points:
Deductibility of DAF contributions are limited to 30% of AGI, so the max for $1.2M income is $360k rather than the $400k that was mentioned. But $40k would roll over to the next year.
If you want to be able to control the funds, a DAF will probably not work. That’s because *the DAF sponsor* risks its own nonprofit status if it allows this. Vanguard Charitable is super conservative about this.
Deductibility of DAF contributions are limited to 30% of AGI, so the max for $1.2M income is $360k rather than the $400k that was mentioned. But $40k would roll over to the next year.
If you want to be able to control the funds, a DAF will probably not work. That’s because *the DAF sponsor* risks its own nonprofit status if it allows this. Vanguard Charitable is super conservative about this.
Re: DAF -> 501(c)(3) -> Scholarship
As others have pointed out, the DAF is an unnecessary step.
Since you want the scholarship to be for students attending a particular college, you might want to check with the college to see whether you can set it up there. Colleges and universities typically administer numerous endowment funds. They pool the money for investment purposes but keep records as to how much is allocable to which fund. They typically disburse a percentage of the fund each year. The tradeoff is that the family gives up the ability to change the purpose in the future.
Alternatively, you could create a private foundation. While many foundations are that size or smaller, $392,000 is generally considered to be on the small side for a foundation. The start-up cost (legal fees and the IRS fee for obtaining a tax exemption) will probably be in the high 4 figures. The annual cost (mainly accounting fees to do the annual tax returns) will probably be a couple of thousand dollars. Note that the IRS has additional requirements for foundations that give scholarships (to make sure you're not trying to set up a foundation to give scholarships to your family).
Since you want the scholarship to be for students attending a particular college, you might want to check with the college to see whether you can set it up there. Colleges and universities typically administer numerous endowment funds. They pool the money for investment purposes but keep records as to how much is allocable to which fund. They typically disburse a percentage of the fund each year. The tradeoff is that the family gives up the ability to change the purpose in the future.
Alternatively, you could create a private foundation. While many foundations are that size or smaller, $392,000 is generally considered to be on the small side for a foundation. The start-up cost (legal fees and the IRS fee for obtaining a tax exemption) will probably be in the high 4 figures. The annual cost (mainly accounting fees to do the annual tax returns) will probably be a couple of thousand dollars. Note that the IRS has additional requirements for foundations that give scholarships (to make sure you're not trying to set up a foundation to give scholarships to your family).