Simple jobs during FATFire?

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hammond
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Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by hammond »

Me and SO should be on track to FATFire around 45-50. However, I don't want to just sit at home at this time.
In our 40s and 50s I would have worked 20+ years in software engineering and would have developed significant skills there to perhaps do something in that space.
We are currently in our early 30s.
I also have a passion for aviation and would like to somehow develop skills in my 30s (like getting a PPL) that I could potentially use later on in my 50s.

What are some good jobs/occupations during that time that require minimal time (say 20 hours) but yet provide the advantages of having a job, like health insurance, interactions with colleagues, mental stimulation etc.
I am thinking of something like teaching others flying, coding or some other job at the local aviation museum etc.
mlipps
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by mlipps »

This question gets posted over & over (search Barista FIRE to find other threads) and I think it's so patronizing. Don't you think if there were low stress, mentally stimulating, part time jobs that provided health insurance that the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people in our country would be flocking to them in droves?? It's a ridiculous and romanticized question that shows a person who has done a lifetime of well paid white collar work and is disconnected from the reality of millions of other Americans.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

I would think FATFire would be about maximizing your hobbies and interests. If that includes software development look into open source projects.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

mlipps wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:38 am This question gets posted over & over (search Barista FIRE to find other threads) and I think it's so patronizing. Don't you think if there were low stress, mentally stimulating, part time jobs that provided health insurance that the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people in our country would be flocking to them in droves?? It's a ridiculous and romanticized question that shows a person who has done a lifetime of well paid white collar work and is disconnected from the reality of millions of other Americans.
Provided those hundreds of thousands of unemployed people had the skills required for those positions. Your assumption that anyone can do any job is also kind of patronizing. Spent a lot of time over the past couple decades trying to help people understand it is not just about having skills, it is about being able to use those skills to provide value. I'd say roughly 85% of the people I have come in contact with either never get it or don't understand how to apply those lessons.
Last edited by TheTimeLord on Tue May 26, 2020 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ray.james
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by ray.james »

Volunteer opportunities.
Especially with your skill set, a lot of local libraries, non profit organisations that run classes/tech support can be very rewarding.
Meetup groups in your skills/hobbies.
Volunteering to maintain local knowledge groups/meetups for conferences, maker fairies etc.,
Activism/local politics if your are into it.
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mak1277
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by mak1277 »

Start a non-profit.
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FIREchief
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by FIREchief »

How is FATfire different from FIRE?
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by jebmke »

Anyone who can tell you what skills would be in demand 15+ years from now probably isn't hanging around posting on this forum.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

FIREchief wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:54 am How is FATfire different from FIRE?
https://www.financialsamurai.com/what-i ... ire-early/
Fat FIRE allows you to:

* Live in the most expensive cities in the world which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

* Save or have enough to pay for all your children’s college education

* Travel for 8 or more weeks a year while living in 4 or 5 star hotels

* Drive a safe and reliable car that’s not older than five years

* Eat and drink the finest foods

* Afford excellent healthcare

* Take care of all your parents financial needs since they sacrificed so much to raise you

* Have no need for either partner or spouse to work every again

Fat FIRE is at the opposite end from Lean FIRE, where individuals cut their expenses to the bare bones in order to survive.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
yohac
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by yohac »

hammond wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:33 am What are some good jobs/occupations during that time that require minimal time (say 20 hours) but yet provide the advantages of having a job, like health insurance, interactions with colleagues, mental stimulation etc.
Don't want to be as blunt as the other commenter, but there are very few jobs in any field that meet that criteria.
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Watty
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by Watty »

I know two IT workers who became school bus drivers after being laid off in their 50s.

In normal times at least around here they are always looking for school bus drivers since it does not pay enough for someone who needs full time work.

It did not pay a lot but it comes with benefits and they got summers and school holidays off. One downside was that it was a split shift where they worked some hours in the morning, then have the middle of the day off, there worked some more hours late in the afternoon. There are pros and cons to that.

This was before the the Affordable Care Act so even if you were doing financially fine you might need to take a job like that just to get health insurance.

I know someone else that got a job working in a school cafeteria for similar reasons.

I have also heard of people who did seasonal work like at ski resorts, national parks, beach towns, etc. Many of those jobs are minimum wage type jobs but they need skilled workers to and in the right situation they will pay well for them.
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FIREchief
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by FIREchief »

TheTimeLord wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:57 am
FIREchief wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:54 am How is FATfire different from FIRE?
https://www.financialsamurai.com/what-i ... ire-early/
Fat FIRE allows you to:

* Live in the most expensive cities in the world which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

* Save or have enough to pay for all your children’s college education

* Travel for 8 or more weeks a year while living in 4 or 5 star hotels

* Drive a safe and reliable car that’s not older than five years

* Eat and drink the finest foods

* Afford excellent healthcare

* Take care of all your parents financial needs since they sacrificed so much to raise you

* Have no need for either partner or spouse to work every again

Fat FIRE is at the opposite end from Lean FIRE, where individuals cut their expenses to the bare bones in order to survive.
Thanks! I'm FIRE'd but a lot of that FATFire stuff has little appeal.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
IMO
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by IMO »

mlipps wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:38 am This question gets posted over & over (search Barista FIRE to find other threads) and I think it's so patronizing. Don't you think if there were low stress, mentally stimulating, part time jobs that provided health insurance that the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people in our country would be flocking to them in droves?? It's a ridiculous and romanticized question that shows a person who has done a lifetime of well paid white collar work and is disconnected from the reality of millions of other Americans.
Honestly, it seems that with things like ACA subsidies for healthcare based on family income, while many jobs do not provide directly for healthcare, it is a subsidized benefit provided by the government. What I find ironic is the current time is that with rampant unemployment, I could go down to a local market and find a job stocking shelves at night, even though I don't even need a job right now.

There are plenty of posts on "fun" jobs during retirement, etc. Will they provide healthcare directly? Probably not. But it seems that many on this site talk about keeping their "income" below this magic amount of $60K per year whereby they can qualify for free or highly subsidized health care from the government. The irony/loophole in this being they may have millions invested. Will this loophole ever get changed in the future? Who knows, but I'd want a back up plan if it did get closed for my healthcare.

So OP, everyone has their personal passions. Can that be a source of extra money for extra fun disposable income in retirement? Sure. Unlikely if those things will provide healthcare coverage. But then again, who knows, things can always change and things like single payer healthcare might be the reality when you're ready to retire (or not). I met a physician who ski instructs on weekends. Guy probably makes more in his normal job in an hour than all day of ski instructing. I'm sure it would provide income when he's retired, not substantial but it's still income.
TravelGeek
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TravelGeek »

jebmke wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:56 am Anyone who can tell you what skills would be in demand 15+ years from now probably isn't hanging around posting on this forum.
Thank you for verifying my math/reading comprehension. It seems a bit premature to think about simple jobs now for a potential FATfire in 15+ years.

But hey, I'll throw a couple of ideas out:

- teaching your neighbors to operate their fancy new flying cars
- volunteer at a non-profit utilizing your software development skills
- build an open source alternative to Quicken
- greeter at Starbucks (the coffee will be automatically brewed, so no more barrista jobs)

(obviously, some are perhaps not completely serious suggestions)
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gr7070
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by gr7070 »

I would think part-time work in one's chosen profession would be rewarding, financially and emotionally, and easiest to obtain some of those things you'd be looking for in FIRE.

That or employment within one's hobbies. Though this may be more difficult and less financially rewarding. Additionally, I've heard some bemoan turning a hobby into a job.

There's also the ubiquitous non-profit employment, which isn't always necessarily rewarding, financially or emotionally.

Some of Dave Ramsey's or his staff's books and shows discuss encore careers. Might be worth checking out. I'm sure there are others out there who intelligently discuss determining and obtaining encore careers.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by phxjcc »

mlipps wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:38 am This question gets posted over & over (search Barista FIRE to find other threads) and I think it's so patronizing. Don't you think if there were low stress, mentally stimulating, part time jobs that provided health insurance that the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people in our country would be flocking to them in droves?? It's a ridiculous and romanticized question that shows a person who has done a lifetime of well paid white collar work and is disconnected from the reality of millions of other Americans.
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FIREchief
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by FIREchief »

Watty wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:01 pm I know two IT workers who became school bus drivers after being laid off in their 50s.
Along the same lines, teaching something like STEM courses in a Junior High or High School might fit the bill. Good hours, probably decent benefits and you work nine months out of the year with holidays and weekends off. Junior college might also provide some opportunities.
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EddyB
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by EddyB »

TravelGeek wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:18 pm
jebmke wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:56 am Anyone who can tell you what skills would be in demand 15+ years from now probably isn't hanging around posting on this forum.
Thank you for verifying my math/reading comprehension. It seems a bit premature to think about simple jobs now for a potential FATfire in 15+ years.

But hey, I'll throw a couple of ideas out:

- teaching your neighbors to operate their fancy new flying cars
...
- greeter at Starbucks (the coffee will be automatically brewed, so no more barrista jobs)

(obviously, some are perhaps not completely serious suggestions)
It could go the other way. Scavenging nails from buildings destroyed in the revolution might be the best FATfire job.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by CyclingDuo »

FIREchief wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:54 am How is FATfire different from FIRE?
Simply means the amount that falls under the SWR is going to be a larger number because the nest egg is larger. Or in many cases, the pension and SS provide a healthy amount that when coupled with the 4% SWR the total income per day/month/year is larger than other levels of fire.

In today's dollars from CampFIREfinance.com

Image

There's also moFIRE (morbidly obese FIRE) which would bump it up to $200K and beyond of annual income streams coming in from the kitty.

https://thedarwiniandoctor.com/mofire/
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aarondearu
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by aarondearu »

TravelGeek wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:18 pm - build an open source alternative to Quicken
GNU Cash
https://www.gnucash.org/
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Watty wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:01 pm I know two IT workers who became school bus drivers after being laid off in their 50s.
I've seen (and looked at) jobs driving a mini van for student transport. They're described as "split shift" because you'd drive a student into school early and bring them home later. In the job description, it says that you can use the vehicle for your own uses between the student transport times. I could see this working well for being an Uber/Lyft driver or food deliverer. I don't know how the vehicle registering works with Uber/Lyft because obviously the vehicle would not be in the driver's name. But it would be commercially registered, so should be fine from an insurance standpoint.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by Chip »

TheTimeLord wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:57 am https://www.financialsamurai.com/what-i ... ire-early/
Fat FIRE allows you to:

* Live in the most expensive cities in the world which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

etc.
That Fat FIRE budget is an absolute joke. Some examples:

A $3000/yr maintenance budget on a 1.3M home. Property insurance of $1500/year. Seriously?
Children's lessons, toys, books and clothes at a total of $2100/year
$6k/year for "staycations". What happened to traveling 8 weeks a year and staying in 4 and 5 star hotels?
There is no car replacement fund. Guess they're going to drive that 3 year old Accord until it's a 53 year old Accord.
Where's the budget to take care of the parents?

We lived in one of the most expensive cities in the world 25 years ago. Rent back then was 15k per month for a 4 BR apt in a 43 story building (covered by Megacorp). No property taxes, though. :D
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

Chip wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:46 pm
TheTimeLord wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:57 am https://www.financialsamurai.com/what-i ... ire-early/
Fat FIRE allows you to:

* Live in the most expensive cities in the world which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

etc.
That Fat FIRE budget is an absolute joke. Some examples:

A $3000/yr maintenance budget on a 1.3M home. Property insurance of $1500/year. Seriously?
Children's lessons, toys, books and clothes at a total of $2100/year
$6k/year for "staycations". What happened to traveling 8 weeks a year and staying in 4 and 5 star hotels?
There is no car replacement fund. Guess they're going to drive that 3 year old Accord until it's a 53 year old Accord.
Where's the budget to take care of the parents?

We lived in one of the most expensive cities in the world 25 years ago. Rent back then was 15k per month for a 4 BR apt in a 43 story building (covered by Megacorp). No property taxes, though. :D
Then be like every other BH and pick a definition you like.
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TravelGeek
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TravelGeek »

aarondearu wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:32 pm
TravelGeek wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:18 pm - build an open source alternative to Quicken
GNU Cash
https://www.gnucash.org/
Heh, yes, I am actually aware of GNU Cash. On my to do list to play with it. But I am also thinking about “just” building my own custom solution one of these days as a FIRE project. Or contribute to/extend/customize GNU Cash.
Chip
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by Chip »

TheTimeLord wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 12:54 pm Then be like every other BH and pick a definition you like.
Not trying to argue with you about it. Just commenting on the lunacy of the financial samurai post. :D
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by Sandtrap »

Buy a 12 unit apartment building
Or better yet, 32 units.
Self manage and cut the lawns yourself.
That’ll keep you busy.😬

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lws
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by lws »

Picture this:

You have many years of engineering experience.
You retired from your engineering company with good pension and health benefits.
There are many full-time job openings in your specialty.
You are willing to work only 20 hours per week with no benefits because you enjoy the work.
Good luck finding a company to hire you part-time.
Shael_AT
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by Shael_AT »

If you are in tech and looking to scale down to PT work, it will take some networking but you can easily get a groove going. The insurance won't be incredible but you won't be left footing a 500k bill for a surgery.

1. Go to a tech vendor or outsource company and perform 1-3-6 month contract work, remote or locally, across a variety of levels.

2. Be clear, communicative and concise that your skill level is X, your commitment level is Y, and your ability to deliver is 110% for what the client is asking for.

3. Develop a reputation and network out with recruiters in this space. Become a reliable and consistent resource working ad-hoc projects. Could be QA work. Could be rolling out 200 desktops at a business. Could be working tech support supplemental staff for a new enterprise IT project roll out. Could be doing some dinky SCCM work for a new OS roll out. Whatever.

4. Half-Assing these things could lead you to a good spot where opportunities come available TO YOIU within 12-18 months of being a go to project work person.

5. Faucet off, low, medium or high. Maintain relationships and go from there.


PS - This is by no means a no to low effort feat. But it reaps rewards. There is a strong dependency on your local market and demand for outsourced and contract IT services. This varies per metro area. This method assumes you know how to sell your brand. If you are naturally a typical introvert, shelled off IT/SWE/SDE/Ops type, you will struggle here. A lot of your peers in this space are not doing this optionally, but because they can't cut it as FTE's.
Last edited by Shael_AT on Tue May 26, 2020 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by CyclingDuo »

hammond wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:33 am Me and SO should be on track to FATFire around 45-50. However, I don't want to just sit at home at this time.
In our 40s and 50s I would have worked 20+ years in software engineering and would have developed significant skills there to perhaps do something in that space.
We are currently in our early 30s.
I also have a passion for aviation and would like to somehow develop skills in my 30s (like getting a PPL) that I could potentially use later on in my 50s.

What are some good jobs/occupations during that time that require minimal time (say 20 hours) but yet provide the advantages of having a job, like health insurance, interactions with colleagues, mental stimulation etc.
I am thinking of something like teaching others flying, coding or some other job at the local aviation museum etc.
I feel the need to say "the sky is the limit"! :mrgreen:

Pun aside, I think that there are all sorts of options that will be available to you. Whether that is within your current industry niche, or pursuing something totally unrelated and surrounding a passion/hobby.

It's usually the larger corporations that take on part-time workers where you would find a health plan (of which you would pay a portion of the premiums) and those usually come with a 401k, ESPP, etc... and could keep you occupied, challenged for 20-25 hours per week. Such jobs are more for some of the advantages you listed than they are for pulling in a decent salary: interactions with colleagues, mental stimulation, having a routine that brings in a little income, but is low stress and doesn't involve you having to take any work home with you. Even better if it involves a passion of yours.

I would imagine at least one path to take for giving flying lessons would be that you would already have entered into doing that as a second job/passion job/part-time gig long before retiring from your main job and would use it as a transition into retirement type of job working the hours you mention. It may not be a scenario that provides the health care benefit, but I'm sure there will be something available in 15 - 20 years from now to fill the gap before Medicare.

You're asking the right questions and thinking ahead once you hit the fatFIRE number. At that point, it's not about the money, but just a little something, something to keep you engaged, mentally challenged, maybe get the health care premium split with the employer if working for an established business. Low key, fun and just on a part-time basis.

Me? I already have two of those that I could use either one of them as such a transition job. Or if I lived in Sonoma, I'd be all over it trying to get on for a part-time job to do tours and wine tastings. :mrgreen:

You like flying? Come out to my neck of the woods and sign up with one of our local firms to do crop dusting.
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oldfort
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by oldfort »

There's no point in asking this question now. Come back in 20 years and ask when you're ready to FIRE.
ncbill
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by ncbill »

Flight instructors I've seen at civilian flight schools are all relatively young...they're just building hours until they're eligible to get their commercial license.

But they then have to start out flying at regional airlines, which pays bupkis.

OTOH my kids may end up flying commercial, but only after retiring from flying for the military.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by remomnyc »

The easiest way to find part-time work is with companies for whom you've already worked. You can eliminate the parts of your job you hated and just be hired to do the parts you like with control over your time. The last two companies I worked for both wanted to hire me back as an independent contractor when it was clear I had no desire or need to work full-time again. When you're ready to exit, let your previous employers know you're open to part-time work. You can negotiate hours, pay and benefits.
JD2775
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by JD2775 »

FIRE, FATFire, Barista FIRE, Morbidly Obese FIRE.....

Don't people just "retire" anymore?
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

JD2775 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 am FIRE, FATFire, Barista FIRE, Morbidly Obese FIRE.....

Don't people just "retire" anymore?
That would be RE. The real question is are you FI in regards to your desired lifestyle. Anyone can retire, doesn't mean it is a financially pleasant thing.
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mptfan
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by mptfan »

If you are working part time for money you are not retired, so you would not be any version of FIRE.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by sailaway »

mptfan wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 am If you are working part time for money you are not retired.
Clearly you aren't up with the new trends. The 60 somethings around here dream of retirement jobs simply because they don't know how to be engaged without getting paid. "He is going to retire as soon as he figures out his retirement job" is met with "That makes sense, you can't just sit around and be bored."
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by willthrill81 »

If you're FATFire, you shouldn't care about getting medical insurance from an employer because you should have enough funds to buy it yourself on the market.
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mptfan
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by mptfan »

sailaway wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:03 am
mptfan wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 am If you are working part time for money you are not retired.
Clearly you aren't up with the new trends. The 60 somethings around here dream of retirement jobs simply because they don't know how to be engaged without getting paid. "He is going to retire as soon as he figures out his retirement job" is met with "That makes sense, you can't just sit around and be bored."
Oh I am up with the new trend of people who claim to be retired while continuing to work, but I don't agree that you can be retired while working for money, part time or otherwise. And I think the phrase "retirement job" is an oxymoron.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by sailaway »

mptfan wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:10 am
sailaway wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:03 am
mptfan wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 am If you are working part time for money you are not retired.
Clearly you aren't up with the new trends. The 60 somethings around here dream of retirement jobs simply because they don't know how to be engaged without getting paid. "He is going to retire as soon as he figures out his retirement job" is met with "That makes sense, you can't just sit around and be bored."
Oh I am up with the new trend of people who claim to be retired while continuing to work, but I don't agree that you can be retired while working for money, part time or otherwise. And I think the phrase "retirement job" is an oxymoron.
What about folks who retire from the military to a civilian career?
mptfan
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by mptfan »

sailaway wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 am What about folks who retire from the military to a civilian career?
What about them? They may be "retired from the military" but they are not "retired" if they are working for money.
TravelGeek
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TravelGeek »

TheTimeLord wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:45 am
JD2775 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 am FIRE, FATFire, Barista FIRE, Morbidly Obese FIRE.....

Don't people just "retire" anymore?
That would be RE. The real question is are you FI in regards to your desired lifestyle. Anyone can retire, doesn't mean it is a financially pleasant thing.
To just retire would be “R”. The “E” stands for early.

And to RE without being FI doesn’t seem like a very aspirational goal and tends to be an involuntary situation.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

TravelGeek wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:37 am
TheTimeLord wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:45 am
JD2775 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 am FIRE, FATFire, Barista FIRE, Morbidly Obese FIRE.....

Don't people just "retire" anymore?
That would be RE. The real question is are you FI in regards to your desired lifestyle. Anyone can retire, doesn't mean it is a financially pleasant thing.
To just retire would be “R”. The “E” stands for early.

And to RE without being FI doesn’t seem like a very aspirational goal and tends to be an involuntary situation.
Thus the answer to why things are more gradually defined than just retire. I would be more curious about the definition of early. Surely it is more then just before 65.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
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gr7070
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by gr7070 »

TheTimeLord wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:46 am I would be more curious about the definition of early. Surely it is more then just before 65.
I would think early starts at first SSI eligibility age??? I suppose one could consider anything before FRA as early, as well. Heck, maybe 59.5 would be the first consideration of early.

After (before, technically?) that/those I presume there will degrees of early with appropriate monickers attributed. ; )
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by fallingeggs »

I think the answer is to start your own business, such as a small restaurant / bar, bed and breakfast or something tourist related (depending on where you live). Of course these aren't easy, but if you don't actually need to earn a profit to eat, it could be interesting and not as stressful. The goal would be to hire / train someone to run the day-to-day after a few years, so that you can cut back to 20 hours per week and still generate enough revenue to pay the bills (including health care).
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by H-Town »

hammond wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:33 am Me and SO should be on track to FATFire around 45-50. However, I don't want to just sit at home at this time.
In our 40s and 50s I would have worked 20+ years in software engineering and would have developed significant skills there to perhaps do something in that space.
We are currently in our early 30s.
I also have a passion for aviation and would like to somehow develop skills in my 30s (like getting a PPL) that I could potentially use later on in my 50s.

What are some good jobs/occupations during that time that require minimal time (say 20 hours) but yet provide the advantages of having a job, like health insurance, interactions with colleagues, mental stimulation etc.
I am thinking of something like teaching others flying, coding or some other job at the local aviation museum etc.
Umm.... when I get to FatFI (I leave out RE on purpose), I plan to do exactly what I want to do, at any given moment. I don't even care about any jobs/occupations with hours requirement, benefits, etc.

Things may change a lot in 10, 20 years. So I agree with a poster above saying that you should come back when you achieve your financial goal.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by alfaspider »

mlipps wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:38 am This question gets posted over & over (search Barista FIRE to find other threads) and I think it's so patronizing. Don't you think if there were low stress, mentally stimulating, part time jobs that provided health insurance that the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people in our country would be flocking to them in droves?? It's a ridiculous and romanticized question that shows a person who has done a lifetime of well paid white collar work and is disconnected from the reality of millions of other Americans.
I can understand the resentment here, but the fact is that a lot of folks who are professionally successful enough to be talking about FIRE have access to much better opportunities than the unemployed folks you are referencing. Obviously, it depends a decent bit on your career and skill set- some lend themselves better to part time work than others.
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by randomguy »

fallingeggs wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 11:18 am I think the answer is to start your own business, such as a small restaurant / bar, bed and breakfast or something tourist related (depending on where you live). Of course these aren't easy, but if you don't actually need to earn a profit to eat, it could be interesting and not as stressful. The goal would be to hire / train someone to run the day-to-day after a few years, so that you can cut back to 20 hours per week and still generate enough revenue to pay the bills (including health care).
I think that is a great way to lose enough money so that you need to go back to work full time:) Seriously those are brutally hard bussiness that tend to only be profitable because the sweat equity put in by the owners. Yes some people do ok. The odds are just stacked against you. For most people it would be much more relaxing to keep working their existing job for several years to save enough money not to have to work 60+ hours/week running a small bussiness.

As Alfaspider points out for these type of jobs to exist, you need opportunites that others can't do. Maybe a job that is only around for 4 months of the year (or 15 hours week) so it isn't appealing to people that need to make a 2000 hr/year salary. Maybe it requires special skills. But in general those jobs and contract opportunities tend to be relatively hard to find.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by CyclingDuo »

JD2775 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 am FIRE, FATFire, Barista FIRE, Morbidly Obese FIRE.....

Don't people just "retire" anymore?
Sure. That's what my spouse and I will have to do.

Besides, we've been informed by other posters here at BH that we don't qualify to be members of any flavor of FIRE since we are both over the age of 55. :shock:
fatFIRE wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 amAge 55 is like min-requirement to FIRE. Age 45 is like standard age from interacting with people in this community. Age 35 is gold standard.
So there is no worrying about joining any of the special clubs like regular FIRE, Lean FIRE, Fat FIRE, Barista FIRE, Coast FIRE, MoFIRE, Fart FIRE, etc... for our household.

We'll just have to retire.

Hey, at least it takes all the pressure off of having to have a blog... :mrgreen:
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by cherijoh »

hammond wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:33 am Me and SO should be on track to FATFire around 45-50. However, I don't want to just sit at home at this time.
In our 40s and 50s I would have worked 20+ years in software engineering and would have developed significant skills there to perhaps do something in that space.
We are currently in our early 30s.
I also have a passion for aviation and would like to somehow develop skills in my 30s (like getting a PPL) that I could potentially use later on in my 50s.

What are some good jobs/occupations during that time that require minimal time (say 20 hours) but yet provide the advantages of having a job, like health insurance, interactions with colleagues, mental stimulation etc.
I am thinking of something like teaching others flying, coding or some other job at the local aviation museum etc.
If benefits are avaible for part-time work (rare in this day and age I've heard), I think you may need to work at least 30 hours/week for the employer to subsidize them at anything close to the same rate as a full time employee. You may be able to opt-in to benefits (and pay 100% of the cost yourself) if you want fewer hours per week.
fatFIRE
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Re: Simple jobs during FATFire?

Post by fatFIRE »

CyclingDuo wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 2:18 pm
fatFIRE wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 amAge 55 is like min-requirement to FIRE. Age 45 is like standard age from interacting with people in this community. Age 35 is gold standard.
So there is no worrying about joining any of the special clubs like regular FIRE, Lean FIRE, Fat FIRE, Barista FIRE, Coast FIRE, MoFIRE, Fart FIRE, etc... for our household.

We'll just have to retire.

Hey, at least it takes all the pressure off of having to have a blog... :mrgreen:
The acronym after all is Retire Early. Retirement age is 62-67 depending on when you draw SSN. So early has to be before 62. If it helps, I'll create a new category called lateFIRE (those who retire between 55-62). So now you're part of the club.
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