Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

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Beckeresq
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Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by Beckeresq » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:58 am

I have experienced many "technical issues" over the years with Vanguard's reporting/updating of "Outside Investments" (service provided by Yodlee).

Over the recent past, the updating "sort of" worked--specifically, accounts updated but not automatically. I had to manually update certain funds (Dodge & Cox) on a regular basis.

About two weeks ago even this Dodge & Cox "workaround" stopped. I waited several days before calling Vanguard about the situation.

Vanguard's response has been disappointing-they know about the issue (it affects everyone with accounts at Dodge & Cox), have been working on it with Yodlee, and have no estimate as to how long it will take to correct. To quote Web Tech Services: It may take a few hours or it could take months.

Vanguard's explanation: This updating service is provided to Vanguard by a third-party, so Vanguard can't control the fix.

What? This is one of the weakest excuses Vanguard has proposed to explain their web site's failings.

Anyone else dealing with this issue?

LookinAround
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by LookinAround » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:04 am

I tried creating "Outside Investments" at one time - much easier/better to just use Quicken for complete snapshots of all your accounts

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dwickenh
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by dwickenh » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:29 am

I have used the "other investments" area in vanguard but found it to be lacking. I keep the entire portfolio in Morningstar and have quicken as well.
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fourwheelcycle
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by fourwheelcycle » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:42 am

I have been using the outside accounts aggregator at Vanguard for many years, since before the Yodlee changeover. I have had problems at times, including during the changeover, but recently everything has been working fine, and automatically, except for Marcus. However, since Vanguard's Prime MMF yield went above Marcus I have moved most of my cash back to Vanguard, so my outside balance at Marcus is low and doesn't change.

The sites that are working fine for us at Vanguard are BoA, TIAA, and Fidelity. I don't use any other aggregators because I want to limit the number of sites that have all my log-in info.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 am

I simply use the Other Investments section. I manually update holdings, Vanguard updates prices based on stock symbol, works fine. I see no reason to have any aggregator accessing my accounts elsewhere.

I also use Quicken desktop.
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by pascalwager » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:29 pm

Vanguard Other Investments works well for me. I have some outside DFA funds in a Schwab account and only need to update the quantities after the quarterly distributions-- otherwise, no buying or selling. If it did stop working, I would just stop using it and rely solely on my Google spreadsheet.
Retired, pension, no SS | Vg TSM/TISM, DFA large value/small cap | 50/50 US/intl | 55/45 S/B | Bond funds: TIPS, TBM, LTT

livesoft
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by livesoft » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:37 pm

Updating of outside investments has always had problems. Since I make so few transactions I don't have any automated updates happening in that I have not revealed to Vanguard any of my login credentials for any outside accounts. In fact, I haven't done that at any web site.

But what bugs me is that if I put some Vanguard products via their tickers into my Outside Investments, then Vanguard doesn't seem to know the closing prices of their own products until many hours or days after Vanguard knows them for accounts I have at Vanguard. That means the info reported by Vanguard is just wrong. It is not wrong by much except on days when the market moves more than 2%, but there is really no excuse for this discrepancy.
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Topic Author
Beckeresq
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Beckeresq » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:51 am

Thanks for the responses.
What "bugs" me is Vanguard's indifference to this repetitive and widespread problem.
Although Fidelity's Full View aggregation has some issues, it does update all of my accounts (including Dodge & Cox accounts).
I just stopped using Quicken, because I thought I could rely on Vanguard's aggregation, which should show not only fund price updates but also fund distributions when made.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by UpperNwGuy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:05 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 am
I simply use the Other Investments section. I manually update holdings, Vanguard updates prices based on stock symbol, works fine. I see no reason to have any aggregator accessing my accounts elsewhere.
^^^ This is what I do.

Seasonal
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Seasonal » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:17 am

What is Vanguard supposed to do? If they're using an outside service, they're at its mercy, both to fix the substantive problem and to estimate how long a fix will take. They are not going to be able to bring it in-house or find another service overnight. It's hard to estimate how long it will take to fix a technical problem.

I also use the Other Investments service. Numbers of shares don't change that quickly and I don't need a very high degree of precision on portfolio values. If I did, I'd want to check the underlying sources to make sure.

Uniballer
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Uniballer » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:25 am

Seasonal wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:17 am
What is Vanguard supposed to do? If they're using an outside service, they're at its mercy, both to fix the substantive problem and to estimate how long a fix will take. They are not going to be able to bring it in-house or find another service overnight. It's hard to estimate how long it will take to fix a technical problem.
They are supposed to contract with outside services that work, or build it themselves and make it work, or leave it off the platform rather than distract us with things that don't work.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by UpperNwGuy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:30 am

Wow! Lots of emotion on this topic....

Seasonal
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Seasonal » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am

Uniballer wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:25 am
Seasonal wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:17 am
What is Vanguard supposed to do? If they're using an outside service, they're at its mercy, both to fix the substantive problem and to estimate how long a fix will take. They are not going to be able to bring it in-house or find another service overnight. It's hard to estimate how long it will take to fix a technical problem.
They are supposed to contract with outside services that work, or build it themselves and make it work, or leave it off the platform rather than distract us with things that don't work.
The only one of those that is feasible in the short term is to remove it from the platform. I somehow doubt that will make a lot of people happy.

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Beckeresq
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Beckeresq » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:47 pm

Consider that if you "partner" with Vanguard's Investment Advisory Services, it's a fair assumption that your "partner" is probably going to have to rely on the Vanguard's site information about all of your investments.

That's both a short and a long term cause of concern.

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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by LadyGeek » Tue May 19, 2020 10:12 am

New member coolguyjo has a question which I've moved into a new thread. See: [How do I use Vanguard's "Outside Investments" feature?]

This thread is now in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (general question). Also note this thread is from 2019.
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Skiandswim
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by Skiandswim » Tue May 19, 2020 11:04 am

Vanguard was limiting customer access to Vanguard Other Investments feature a few years ago (not a default). Not sure the status currently for new customers. I have used the feature for several years.

I have had challenges with Vanguard Other Investments feature - some accounts don't refresh, no link for international accounts, required to reestablish account information at times. I understand this is the nature of trying to link disparate financial services. I just use a spreadsheet for accurate information. As Vanguard grows their advisory service / robo service, a more robust process might be required.

capgain22
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by capgain22 » Tue May 19, 2020 1:37 pm

Personal Capital has a free portfolio tracker that will import data from many different sources.
It has amazing function to analyse your asset allocation.
Also keeps track of individual transactions, including re-investment of dividends.

I also like Schwab's Portfolio Performance tool.

I find Vantuard's site difficult to negotiate and less pleasing to the eye compared to other sites, though I have many of my investments there.

crefwatch
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by crefwatch » Tue May 19, 2020 1:48 pm

You didn't mention if you've tried updating the login-credentials (I mean, with the same data you had before ... ) Sometimes these problems correct themselves within a week or so. Other times, if you go to the real site (not through Vanguard, but sitting at your desktop as a regular Dodge and Cox customer) you may find that they have added two-factor authentication or are calling for a one-time update of some kind.

An extreme case was my UBS brokerage account, which required logging in and giving specific permission, with loads of releases and disclaimers, to Yodlee (by name ... ) to log in to my UBS account.

These companies (I mean Dodge and Cox and UBS) have little incentive to make it easy. It would be nice if all Fin Serv providers offered to let you create "Inspect but make not changes" logins. But that would be customer centric instead of profit-centric.

I gave up on both Vanguard (old system) Consolidated Accounts and Fidelity Full View. I went direct to Yodlee and opened an account. I don't need to tell you there's a huge trust issue. Many posters on sites like this would NEVER trust a company with all their logins.

capgain22
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by capgain22 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:10 am

That's right about PC asset manager:
when a company requires login SN/PW and THEN a PIN number, the Personal Capital import won't always work on that site. They ask you just to log in to the company to reset it, but again that doesn't always work either. Nor does just reinserting the login info.

I have lots of different positions in lots of banks and brokerages. So for the most part, the PC imports most of it and analyses in a way I can understand and follow. So it's a great help to me.
I track it along with Schwab Portfolio Checkup and if the two are close, it gives me more confidence.

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Harry Livermore
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Harry Livermore » Fri May 22, 2020 6:30 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:05 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 am
I simply use the Other Investments section. I manually update holdings, Vanguard updates prices based on stock symbol, works fine. I see no reason to have any aggregator accessing my accounts elsewhere.
^^^ This is what I do.
Ditto for me.
I use it mostly to double-check my eponymous spreadsheet that tracks our net worth/ investment portfolio. Since probably 75% of our money is in Vanguard, it's fairly easy to track down any large discrepancies between the spreadsheet and the amounts on the Vanguard website.
I thought I read somewhere that this feature is not on the brokerage platform? I'm on the old MF platform.
Cheers

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri May 22, 2020 6:31 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:30 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:05 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 am
I simply use the Other Investments section. I manually update holdings, Vanguard updates prices based on stock symbol, works fine. I see no reason to have any aggregator accessing my accounts elsewhere.
^^^ This is what I do.
Ditto for me.
I use it mostly to double-check my eponymous spreadsheet that tracks our net worth/ investment portfolio. Since probably 75% of our money is in Vanguard, it's fairly easy to track down any large discrepancies between the spreadsheet and the amounts on the Vanguard website.
I thought I read somewhere that this feature is not on the brokerage platform? I'm on the old MF platform.
Cheers
I am on the brokerage platform, and the feature is definitely there.

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Harry Livermore
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by Harry Livermore » Fri May 22, 2020 6:44 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:31 am

I am on the brokerage platform, and the feature is definitely there.
Great, good to know. It's a feature I actually find useful, as described, and if and when I'm finally forced to convert I'd still like to use it.
Cheers

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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by bayview » Fri May 22, 2020 7:45 am

I track my TSP investments in Outside Investments. NOBODY (that I’ve found) handles TSP in their aggregator.

I use Vanguard equivalent tickers for the various TSP funds. Divide the dollars in each TSP fund by the cost of the Vanguard equivalent, and enter the result as numbers of shares. They track reasonably well. Once a week or so (biweekly when I was working and had new deposits with each paycheck), I’d update the number of “shares” according to the new balances in TSP.

I’d argue (“suggest”, maybe) that if anyone wants something more precise on a daily basis, they’re getting a bit obsessive. The purpose of an aggregator should be to get a big picture of how things are looking, not a to-the-penny reckoning.
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Nowizard
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by Nowizard » Fri May 22, 2020 7:56 am

A company with what I believe is more than a trillion dollars invested and millions (?) of investors, each with detailed preferences and concerns regarding their portfolios which may vary from about a thousand dollars to many millions will have numerous issues at the individual level. Vanguard is not perfect but meets most needs. Fidelity, Dodge and Cox, American Funds, etc. meet needs better for others. In many cases, Vanguard will listen and change. In others, they either cannot for other reasons or will not because of their philosophy. This appears to be the former.
Tim

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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site

Post by sixtyforty » Fri May 22, 2020 7:58 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:05 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 am
I simply use the Other Investments section. I manually update holdings, Vanguard updates prices based on stock symbol, works fine. I see no reason to have any aggregator accessing my accounts elsewhere.
^^^ This is what I do.
Me as well. Works just fine.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Updating Outside Investments on Web Site [Vanguard]

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Fri May 22, 2020 6:06 pm

I use both type updates of the Vanguard aggregator, so some accounts are updated automatically, others are updated manually.

My ongoing issue is with a small $$$ account I have at my alma mater's credit union.

Every few months I have to reset access for the account. All the other accounts update flawlessly.

The only reason I even keep the account is because I have a link to a DD's account
, in case I need bail money or something.

The aggregator is absolutely available on the brokerage platform.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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