Support the site through Amazon?

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JLJL
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Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Wed May 20, 2020 12:54 pm

Is there a way to support the site as an affiliate link when using the Amazon app?

Also, when going through the web browser link, how can you tell that you've entered through a link that supports bogleheads? I just made a purchase from the Amazon link above but other than the front page initially showing all the suggested reading, once I browse I don't see how my session is linked back here.

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CABob
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by CABob » Wed May 20, 2020 1:38 pm

There certainly is.
https://www.bogleheads.org/support.php
Check the Amazon link almost at the bottom of the page.
Bob

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JLJL
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Wed May 20, 2020 2:12 pm

Sorry
CABob wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:38 pm
There certainly is.
https://www.bogleheads.org/support.php
Check the Amazon link almost at the bottom of the page.
I guess I mean if you follow the link and open through the app on a tablet or phone, can you still support the site. And then, in that environment is there any visual indication that you are shopping with the bogleheads affiliation. I couldn't see that when I made a purchase through that link.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed May 20, 2020 2:22 pm

This thread is now in the Forum Issues and Administration forum (support).
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BeBH65
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by BeBH65 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:23 pm

BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

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JLJL
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Wed May 20, 2020 2:36 pm

Sorry let me take one more stab at this. I haven't asked my questions clearly.

In order to support Bogleheads.org while shopping at Amazon, one can follow the link above in the toolbar and make purchases, boglehead-related or otherwise, and the cost of the items is the same, but a small amount is contributed back to the bogleheads.org site.

I do have a couple questions.

1) If you normally shop Amazon using a tablet via the Amazon APP (not a web browser), can you still do it in a way that enables your purchasing (through the app) to support bogleheads.org?

2) When you have followed the link above in the toolbar and are making general purchases on amazon (whether via browser or app), while in the shopping session or at checkout or after, is there any indication on the site/page/app as you shop that you are in an environment that is supporting bogleheads.org? I just made purchases through that link and couldn't see a confirmation anywhere.

Or... do I have the whole idea wrong?

Thank you

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by mega317 » Wed May 20, 2020 5:24 pm

1. I have asked this same question here and in other places. I can't seem to get an answer.

2. The way this works is once you click the link, your session is associated with BH for a certain time frame. I think I've read 2 hours, don't hold me to that. There isn't a way to confirm this. But anything you do on Amazon after clicking that link will be linked to BH.

Another question I haven't had answered--if you add things to your cart, then in another session complete the purchase, do you have to click the link both times? Only when adding? Only when purchasing?

My way around all this uncertainty is to just click the link on a desktop browser and complete the transactions at one time, because the support is important to me.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by margered » Wed May 20, 2020 5:59 pm

Go to smile.amazon.com, sign in, go to account and lists (right of center in black band), halfway down “your lists” is Amazon smile charity list. Choose Bogle heads (I haven’t tried this since I’m supporting a different charity) and whenever you log in, the logo in upper left should be Amazon Smile. I haven’t done this in a while, so you might have to fuss a little. If I click on an Amazon link, it asks me if I want to go to my Amazon Smile account instead.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed May 20, 2020 6:27 pm

^^^ The Bogleheads.org site is not on Amazon smile.

However, this organization is: The John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed May 20, 2020 8:30 pm

mega317 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:24 pm
1. I have asked this same question here and in other places. I can't seem to get an answer.

2. The way this works is once you click the link, your session is associated with BH for a certain time frame. I think I've read 2 hours, don't hold me to that. There isn't a way to confirm this. But anything you do on Amazon after clicking that link will be linked to BH.

Another question I haven't had answered--if you add things to your cart, then in another session complete the purchase, do you have to click the link both times? Only when adding? Only when purchasing?

My way around all this uncertainty is to just click the link on a desktop browser and complete the transactions at one time, because the support is important to me.
Here's Amazon's policy from https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/he ... g/policies
We will pay Standard Program Fees described in Section 3 of this Fee Statement in connection with “Qualifying Purchases”, which (subject to the exclusions described in this Fee Statement) occur when:

(a) a customer clicks through a Special Link on your Site to an Amazon Site; and

(b) during a single session, which is measured as beginning when a customer clicks through that Special Link and ending upon the first to occur of the following: (x) 24 hours elapse from that click, (y) the customer places an order for a Product, other than a digital product (as determined in our sole discretion; for example, an Amazon software download or items sold under the name “Amazon Music,” “Amazon Shorts”, “eDocs”, “Amazon Prime Video”, “Game Downloads”, “Amazon Coin”, “Kindle Books”, “Kindle Newspapers”, “Kindle Blogs”, “Kindle Newsfeeds”, or “Kindle Magazines”) (a “Digital Product”), or (z) the customer clicks through a Special Link to an Amazon Site that is not your Special Link (a “Session”), any of the following happens:

i. the customer purchases a Product via our 1-Click feature, or

ii. the customer purchases a Product by adding a Product to his or her shopping cart and completing the order for that Product no later than 89 days after their initial click-through of the Special Link, or

iii. with respect to Digital Products, the customer purchases such a Product by streaming or downloading it from an Amazon Site; and

(c) the Product is shipped to, streamed or downloaded by, and paid for by the customer.
I think this means that stuff you put in your cart after linking from us will still generate an affiliate fee if you purchase it with 89 days. But, IANAL, and my wife (who is a lawyer, but not a contract lawyer) won't venture an opinion :-)

A quick note on Amazon Smile. It pays .5%, meanwhile purchases made after following an affiliate link currently pay 1% (groceries) to 10% (luxury beauty) with an average around 3%. A cynical person might even suggest that Amazon Smile was developed to cap the amount of money that Amazon potentially has to pay out for referrals.

Finally, I will note that the Bogle Center is a separate organization, its primary focus is presenting the annual Bogleheads Convention. They have made annual grants to bogleheads.org of $2000 to $4000.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by KyleAAA » Wed May 20, 2020 9:45 pm

1.) Please clarify your question. Are you asking if you click a link and then separately open the Amazon app, on this or another device, will the site receive a referral? If you added it to your cart on the web and simply checked out in the app, I believe so. If you didn't add it to your cart on the website first I do not believe it would qualify.

2.) No. When you enter there will be a tag= query string parameter with the bogleheads affiliate code. That's how Amazon knows the referer. But the site won't change in any way and the qs parameter doesn't seem to be persisted across page requests.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed May 20, 2020 11:09 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:45 pm
...
2.) No. When you enter there will be a tag= query string parameter with the bogleheads affiliate code. That's how Amazon knows the referer. But the site won't change in any way and the qs parameter doesn't seem to be persisted across page requests.
If you enter on one of our links, anything you get in that session will give us a referral fee. Most of the fees we get are for stuff that's never mentioned on this site. Amazon tracks the referrer internally rather than sticking the tag in the URL.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by Cranberry44 » Thu May 21, 2020 12:19 am

If the link you click on has "&tag=bogleheads.org-20" in the URL, then qualifying purchases will be credited to appropriate account. That tag, the "&tag=bogleheads.org-20," puts a 24-hour cookie on the user's browser, so any purchase made in that period will result will be treated as a referral from Bogleheads.og. Because it is a cookie, you can browse Amazon.com after clicking such a link, and purchases made on URLs that do not have that tag will will be appropriately credited. Using the app makes it harder to confirm, unfortunately.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by LadyGeek » Thu May 21, 2020 6:16 am

Books listed in the wiki also have the "&tag=bogleheads.org-20" referral. For example: Bogleheads' Guide To Investing

You could go to the wiki's book page, then surf to buy what you want. Every wiki page which uses the referral has this disclaimer:
Affiliate links

Bogleheads.org is an Amazon Associate and may earn from qualifying purchases made through Amazon.com.
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Thu May 21, 2020 2:07 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:30 pm
<snip>

I think this means that stuff you put in your cart after linking from us will still generate an affiliate fee if you purchase it with 89 days. But, IANAL, and my wife (who is a lawyer, but not a contract lawyer) won't venture an opinion :-)

A quick note on Amazon Smile. It pays .5%, meanwhile purchases made after following an affiliate link currently pay 1% (groceries) to 10% (luxury beauty) with an average around 3%. A cynical person might even suggest that Amazon Smile was developed to cap the amount of money that Amazon potentially has to pay out for referrals.

Finally, I will note that the Bogle Center is a separate organization, its primary focus is presenting the annual Bogleheads Convention. They have made annual grants to bogleheads.org of $2000 to $4000.
Wow! Thank you, I had no idea the benefit was this high. I really want to be vigilant about making sure this happens... I was thinking it was a pittance (but every little bit helps). We certainly spend some bills over there at the Amazon... :moneybag

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Thu May 21, 2020 2:18 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:16 am
Books listed in the wiki also have the "&tag=bogleheads.org-20" referral. For example: Bogleheads' Guide To Investing

You could go to the wiki's book page, then surf to buy what you want. Every wiki page which uses the referral has this disclaimer:
Affiliate links

Bogleheads.org is an Amazon Associate and may earn from qualifying purchases made through Amazon.com.
Following that wiki link I do see the tag you reference. But then when I go shopping, let's say for this pressure washer, the URL doesn't give me confidence I'm supporting the site:

"https://www.amazon.com/TACKLIFE-Pressur ... SX4WPKND2V"
Cranberry44 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:19 am
If the link you click on has "&tag=bogleheads.org-20" in the URL, then qualifying purchases will be credited to appropriate account. That tag, the "&tag=bogleheads.org-20," puts a 24-hour cookie on the user's browser, so any purchase made in that period will result will be treated as a referral from Bogleheads.og. Because it is a cookie, you can browse Amazon.com after clicking such a link, and purchases made on URLs that do not have that tag will will be appropriately credited. Using the app makes it harder to confirm, unfortunately.
Oh, so it doesn't show up in my current URL but the cookie is already... in the oven so to speak? :P
KyleAAA wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:45 pm
1.) Please clarify your question. Are you asking if you click a link and then separately open the Amazon app, on this or another device, will the site receive a referral? If you added it to your cart on the web and simply checked out in the app, I believe so. If you didn't add it to your cart on the website first I do not believe it would qualify.

2.) No. When you enter there will be a tag= query string parameter with the bogleheads affiliate code. That's how Amazon knows the referer. But the site won't change in any way and the qs parameter doesn't seem to be persisted across page requests.
Thanks. I need to check #1 out on my ipad at home but basically when you enter a website on a browser on a device that also has the app, typically it asks you if you would prefer to use the app. So if I enter via this site then switch to the app, will I be ok if something hasn't been already added to the cart, or even if it has, etc? To be safe I can shop from the browser but I guarantee we won't be as good about this in aggregate in the household if this is the process.

Ok so above I've just put that pressure washer in the cart from a laptop. What if I buy it in the next hour from my ipad?

I know I'm over-analyzing, but I really want to capture as many purchases as possible.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by LadyGeek » Thu May 21, 2020 2:47 pm

Here's part of the answer: Why doesn't my tracking ID appear in your URL after a visitor clicks through to Amazon from my Web site?
We understand your concern, but rest assured that it is not necessary for your unique ID to appear in order for us to track sales made after the initial click through. The individual shopping session will be tagged in a way that allows us to track the items purchased and credit you with the appropriate fee.
Here's the other part - The shopping cart has the info: How long do visitors have to add an item to their Shopping Cart after clicking on one of my Amazon.com links...
You earn advertising fees on any qualifying items placed in a customer's Shopping Cart within 24 hours of their arrival at Amazon.com via your Associates link. However, this 24-hour window closes once the customer submits his order or reenters Amazon.com through another Associate's link. Once the window is closed, you will not earn advertising fees on any subsequent purchases. However, if the customer then returns to Amazon.com through one of your Associates links, this opens a new 24-hour window.

It is of course possible that a customer may arrive at Amazon.com via your Associates link, add an item to his Shopping Cart, and then leave Amazon.comwithout placing an order. As long as the item was added to the customer's Shopping Cart during this 24-hour window, you will still earn a referral fee if the order is placed before the Shopping Cart expires (usually after 90 days). The referral fee will not be credited to your Associates account until the customer has purchased the item, accepted delivery, and remitted full payment to Amazon.com.
Once you put it in the shopping cart, it's tracked.
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Thu May 21, 2020 3:11 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:47 pm
Here's part of the answer: Why doesn't my tracking ID appear in your URL after a visitor clicks through to Amazon from my Web site?
We understand your concern, but rest assured that it is not necessary for your unique ID to appear in order for us to track sales made after the initial click through. The individual shopping session will be tagged in a way that allows us to track the items purchased and credit you with the appropriate fee.
Here's the other part - The shopping cart has the info: How long do visitors have to add an item to their Shopping Cart after clicking on one of my Amazon.com links...
You earn advertising fees on any qualifying items placed in a customer's Shopping Cart within 24 hours of their arrival at Amazon.com via your Associates link. However, this 24-hour window closes once the customer submits his order or reenters Amazon.com through another Associate's link. Once the window is closed, you will not earn advertising fees on any subsequent purchases. However, if the customer then returns to Amazon.com through one of your Associates links, this opens a new 24-hour window.

It is of course possible that a customer may arrive at Amazon.com via your Associates link, add an item to his Shopping Cart, and then leave Amazon.comwithout placing an order. As long as the item was added to the customer's Shopping Cart during this 24-hour window, you will still earn a referral fee if the order is placed before the Shopping Cart expires (usually after 90 days). The referral fee will not be credited to your Associates account until the customer has purchased the item, accepted delivery, and remitted full payment to Amazon.com.
Once you put it in the shopping cart, it's tracked.
Very helpful, thank you!

I guess all that's left to learn is if you click through amazon.com via the bogleheads link and move to the app (as prompted in a banner on the page or whatnot), does this let you keep the tracking and give you 24 hours? Basically... can the app be used to earn affiliate payments?

For now I'll just use a web browser until I know for sure...

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by LadyGeek » Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm

I wouldn't worry about it. Consider that Amazon knows very, very well how people shop and is not about to lose revenue because of it.

One more: About the Shopping Cart
Items added to your Shopping Cart will be available from any compatible web browser or Amazon Mobile app that has been signed in to your account.
Your shopping cart has the affiliate referral - which is accessible from every device and Mobile app that's logged into the account. You're good to go.
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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by inbox788 » Thu May 21, 2020 4:02 pm

JLJL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:18 pm


Following that wiki link I do see the tag you reference. But then when I go shopping, let's say for this pressure washer, the URL doesn't give me confidence I'm supporting the site:

"https://www.amazon.com/TACKLIFE-Pressur ... SX4WPKND2V"


Oh, so it doesn't show up in my current URL but the cookie is already... in the oven so to speak? :P

Thanks. I need to check #1 out on my ipad at home but basically when you enter a website on a browser on a device that also has the app, typically it asks you if you would prefer to use the app. So if I enter via this site then switch to the app, will I be ok if something hasn't been already added to the cart, or even if it has, etc? To be safe I can shop from the browser but I guarantee we won't be as good about this in aggregate in the household if this is the process.

Ok so above I've just put that pressure washer in the cart from a laptop. What if I buy it in the next hour from my ipad?

I know I'm over-analyzing, but I really want to capture as many purchases as possible.
You'll never know and there's very little way to verify what companies and others describe should be happening.

If you go shopping at a store that pays commissions and 3 sales people help you, along with an assistant manager and it's rung up by the cashier, who gets the commission? And at a restaurant, when you leave a tip, does the busboy or cashier or owner/management get a share? And cooks or dishwasher or bartender?

You're being tracked at many levels with many methods, and often they will come into conflict. You sign in to smile.amazon to benefit the Bogle Foundation but click the bogleheads referral button link, which gets credit? double dip?

And if you had something in your cart from another affiliate, does that referral get tracked and credited independently and separately?

There's a lot of randomness, but I always assume (not always corect) that the latest/last click tramples over most of the previous referral codes. Sometimes, you can double or multiple dip. There's your local browser cookies, ISP tracing, server tracking, and Amazon (or whatever website you're visiting) all keeping tabs and potentially providing a referral or other classification information.

And to make things even more complicated, a lot of privacy issues and interventions are actively tampering with and removing these tracking methods.

https://disconnect.me/

https://spreadprivacy.com/do-not-track/

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by KyleAAA » Thu May 21, 2020 6:54 pm

JLJL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:18 pm

Following that wiki link I do see the tag you reference. But then when I go shopping, let's say for this pressure washer, the URL doesn't give me confidence I'm supporting the site:

"https://www.amazon.com/TACKLIFE-Pressur ... SX4WPKND2V"
It would only show up in the URL on the very first page you hit on the Amazon site. If you were redirected or clicked on anything causing a new page to load, it probably would not be persisted. So long as you enter via the link every time you make a purchase, it will count. You shouldn't expect to see any visual indication.

JLJL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:18 pm

Oh, so it doesn't show up in my current URL but the cookie is already... in the oven so to speak? :P
Correct.
JLJL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:18 pm
Thanks. I need to check #1 out on my ipad at home but basically when you enter a website on a browser on a device that also has the app, typically it asks you if you would prefer to use the app. So if I enter via this site then switch to the app, will I be ok if something hasn't been already added to the cart, or even if it has, etc? To be safe I can shop from the browser but I guarantee we won't be as good about this in aggregate in the household if this is the process.
I'm not sure about that case. You'd have to ask Amazon if they consider a web and mobile session to be the same for these purposes or if they pass the contents of the cookie to the app. To be safe, you probably shouldn't do that if it's important to you.
JLJL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:18 pm
Ok so above I've just put that pressure washer in the cart from a laptop. What if I buy it in the next hour from my ipad?
Based on the definition linked above, that would count.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Fri May 22, 2020 5:56 am

inbox788 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:02 pm
Snip
Thanks. I want control and want to know... so I’ll single dip through browser especially on big :dollar spends
Last edited by JLJL on Fri May 22, 2020 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by JLJL » Fri May 22, 2020 5:57 am

KyleAAA wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:54 pm
Snip
Thanks Kyle, makes sense

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Re: Support the site through Amazon?

Post by inbox788 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:28 pm

JLJL wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:56 am
inbox788 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:02 pm
Snip
Thanks. I want control and want to know... so I’ll single dip through browser especially on big :dollar spends
Yes, clicking thru a sponsored link or ad and making the purchase/transaction immediately is most likely to activate that specific offer. If you're really intent, you might take the extra step of clearing your history and cookies (or using a new or different newly installed browser). Incognito mode sometimes works too, but that adds risks that references links and tracking is lost (not that that doesn't already happen). They're still tracking your IP address and might use that to information, so VPN is an option, but that can also lead to other problems (amplifies the shared IP numbers creating mistaken cross-references problems). [I've had rebates rejected on the "one per household" clause because (unbeknownst to me at the time) a roommate also submitted one from the same address.] It's an imperfect system in a complex and changing world.

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