New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:05 am

Hi everyone,

I find myself in a good but difficult situation. I am aware I am extremely fortunate to have a job during this time let alone the prospects of a new position. Appreciate any feedback as I try to navigate this situation.

My wife and I currently work remotely in fairly demanding positions. My work normally requires 30-50% travel (have not been traveling due the pandemic for 2 months now). We have two toddlers (currently at home due to corona virus) and a new baby on the way in late June. As of now both jobs appear to be secure. My company offers 4 weeks paternity leave and I had planned on taking the full leave.

Recently executive recruiter contacted me about a role that would be with a much large organization based locally. The role will be a step down title wise but compensation will be in line or slightly higher than current package. Additionally, potential new role company has a reputation for being family and employee friendly regarding work life and benefits. Regarding financial stability, they are well funded and profitable so no real concerns about being a going concern.

My dilemma relates to my wife being 33 pregnant. I have not yet informed the potential new employer of this detail. Depending on how quickly this moves forward this could prove to be a difficult sticking point. I see three scenarios:

1) Offer is made within 2 weeks and I could accept (give two weeks notice) and start for a week then go on paternity under their company program (6 weeks vs my 4 at current company). This would be discussed during offer process so no one would be surprised.
2) offer is made later than 2 weeks - I would offer to start 2-3 weeks after paternity at current company which would be a lead time of at most 10-11 weeks.
3) offer is made later than 2 weeks - I would ask for a sign on bonus (on top of the normal offer) to cover 1 month of pay. I would then put in my two weeks right away. Take month off for new baby and start right away after the one month period. This would be a lead time of 7-8 weeks.

When and how do I discuss this topic with recruiter/potential employer? What suggestions do people have regarding options to keep me whole and have sufficient paternity time without sacrificing new position?
Last edited by Bb073084 on Sat May 23, 2020 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bayview
Posts: 2184
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:05 pm
Location: WNC

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by bayview » Tue May 19, 2020 8:39 am

4) Offer is made, you accept, you resign from your current employer, offer is rescinded or you are laid off from new job when the second wave of COVID-19 hits.

I would want to know what the healthcare company has done over the last two months re reduction in hours and layoffs among their existing employees. The healthcare industry has had a rough time with COVID-19.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

New Providence
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:10 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by New Providence » Tue May 19, 2020 8:46 am

Have you considered being a stay-at-home dad? Raising 3 little kids full time could be the best job ever have.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 12:50 pm

Fair points on the offer rescinding risk. They say they are stable and I can see their balance sheet and find it hard to believe that they would not be (new employer that is).

I could ask for a severance guarantee of 6 months as part of my job offer to protect against that risk.

wfrobinette
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by wfrobinette » Tue May 19, 2020 3:05 pm

Bb073084 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:05 am
Hi everyone,

I find myself in a good but difficult situation. I am aware I am extremely fortunate to have a job during this time let alone the prospects of a new position. Appreciate any feedback as I try to navigate this situation.

My wife and I currently work remotely in fairly demanding positions both in internal finance (FP&A). My work normally requires 30-50% travel (have not been traveling due the pandemic for 2 months now). We have two toddlers (currently at home due to corona virus) and a new baby on the way in late June. As of now both jobs appear to be secure and I was even fortunate enough to be promoted within the last few weeks. My company offers 4 weeks paternity leave and I had planned on taking the full leave.

About two weeks ago an executive recruiter contacted me about a role that would be with a much large organization based locally. This is a different industry (financial services vs healthcare) but my background is varied (have experience in both fields at one point in my career). The role will be a step down title wise but compensation will be in line or slightly higher than current package. Additionally, potential new role company has a reputation for being family and employee friendly regarding work life and benefits. Many employees have been with this employer for 20-30 years. Regarding financial stability, they are extremely well funded and profitable so no real concerns about being a going concern. While I have only made it to the second round so far I believe I will have a good shot at the position.

My dilemma relates to my wife being 33 pregnant. I have not yet informed the potential new employer of this detail. Depending on how quickly this moves forward this could prove to be a difficult sticking point. I see four scenarios:

1) Offer is made within 2 weeks and I could accept (give two weeks notice) and start for a week then go on paternity under their company program (6 weeks vs my 4 at current company);
2) offer is made later than 2 weeks - I would offer to start 2-3 weeks after paternity at current company which would be a lead time of at most 10-11 weeks.
3) offer is made later than 2 weeks - I would ask for a sign on bonus (on top of the normal offer) to cover 1 month of pay. I would then put in my two weeks right away. Take month off for new baby and start right away after the one month period. This would be a lead time of 7-8 weeks.

When and how do I discuss this topic with recruiter/potential employer? What suggestions do people have regarding options to keep me whole and have sufficient paternity time without sacrificing new position?
IMHO
Option #1 - This one made me laugh out loud. You can't be serious. Will you even have insurance on day 1?
option #2 - Best option in my book
Option #3 - What makes you think sign on bonus is even on the table? Let alone one that pays out before you even show up to work for day 1. Quit then live off sign on bonus then start? No way. Pay cobra?
Option #4 above - Great point.

You're still ahead of yourself on this one. Round two is nothing unless they said only two rounds were happening.

Best option in my book looks like this.

1. Continue interviewing
2. If asked when you can start you state you need to give at least 2 weeks notice.
3. Offer comes - Ask recruiter how to handle. he/she may have better relationship with company to know how to approach. If you are best candidate they will surely wait but you may have to give up some paternity leave. (though I got offered a job at Thanksgiving time once and asked for signing about 1/2 of what the bonus I was giving up or start in March. I started in March. )

What's more important paternity leave of 4 weeks or little to no travel beyond that leave. Heck I'd give up leave altogether to not travel.

jbmitt
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:00 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by jbmitt » Tue May 19, 2020 6:09 pm

Just be careful, you may not be eligible for FMLA. I believe you need to have worked there for 12 months. If you are their top choice, I'd imagine that they would work with you on a start date. Perhaps stay with your current company, take whatever benefit, give notice when you return.

Many people 'look" for jobs during maternity/paternity leaves.

EFF_fan81
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:23 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by EFF_fan81 » Tue May 19, 2020 6:45 pm

Cross the bridge if it comes to it.

Option 2 is the most reasonable to me.

For all you know it could take months to get the offer.

999
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:10 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by 999 » Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 pm

Do you and your wife work at the same company? Wondering if that compiles your risk of something happens to the company.

I would be upfront with the recruiter and see what they say. Don’t dig in on the paternity leave in case it is a sticking point and they weed you out of their section.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I wonder if paternity leave is used more regionally. I don’t think I know anyone first hand who has used it. If I was the employer and my recent hire did option 1, that wouldn’t set the tone well.

birnhamwood
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm

Post by birnhamwood » Tue May 19, 2020 7:17 pm

Switching companies would be a step down in title and roughly the same money, so If your present company is also employee and family friendly, and if it's also financially stable and profitable (you did not say otherwise), why change?

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re:

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:07 pm

birnhamwood wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:17 pm
Switching companies would be a step down in title and roughly the same money, so If your present company is also employee and family friendly, and if it's also financially stable and profitable (you did not say otherwise), why change?
Fair feedback. Current job work schedule is very demanding and unpredictable. I frequently work 50-60 hour weeks which is difficult with young children at home. Additionally current company is headquartered out of state so only growth potential at this point would be to relocate. We chose to move to Minnesota to be near family so that is a deal breaker.

Potential company offers same if not slightly better comp, more stable company, family friendly, and appears to be less demanding on its people. My current company is also a smaller company so it has more dramatic ups and downs than the new potential employer does given their size and balance sheet.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:11 pm

999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Do you and your wife work at the same company? Wondering if that compiles your risk of something happens to the company.

I would be upfront with the recruiter and see what they say. Don’t dig in on the paternity leave in case it is a sticking point and they weed you out of their section.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I wonder if paternity leave is used more regionally. I don’t think I know anyone first hand who has used it. If I was the employer and my recent hire did option 1, that wouldn’t set the tone well.
We work at different companies.

I am planning on not disclosing until I am made an offer or about to be made an offer. Rather not exclude myself by revealing now if I am really the best candidate for the role. Figure if they select me, this will likely be a non-issue if I approach it right. The level of the role is fairly senior so I expect it is not to uncommon to at least have a longer notice period before switching.

As far as paternity, if it is offered people generally take it in my experience. My company offers 4 weeks full pay. I am in my mid 30’s and all my friends have taken paternity as well. Think it is more a generational thing as well as geographical thing (some states seem to offer it more often than others).
Last edited by Bb073084 on Tue May 19, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

catlady
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:31 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by catlady » Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 pm

jbmitt wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:09 pm
Just be careful, you may not be eligible for FMLA. I believe you need to have worked there for 12 months. If you are their top choice, I'd imagine that they would work with you on a start date. Perhaps stay with your current company, take whatever benefit, give notice when you return.

Many people 'look" for jobs during maternity/paternity leaves.
This. Are you sure you’d be eligible for any paternity leave at new company weeks after starting?

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:15 pm

catlady wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 pm
jbmitt wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:09 pm
Just be careful, you may not be eligible for FMLA. I believe you need to have worked there for 12 months. If you are their top choice, I'd imagine that they would work with you on a start date. Perhaps stay with your current company, take whatever benefit, give notice when you return.

Many people 'look" for jobs during maternity/paternity leaves.
This. Are you sure you’d be eligible for any paternity leave at new company weeks after starting?
That would be something I would have to confirm before accepting the offer in that scenario.

jjface
Posts: 2966
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by jjface » Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm

Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.

Do you have vacation time you could use at your old employer?

Sorry that means none of your options get my vote.

But yes I'd certainly be leaning towards a new position if it requires much less travel and is less demanding. Want to be around for those kids and your wife.
Last edited by jjface on Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 pm

jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.

But yes I'd certainly be leaning towards a new position if it requires much less travel and is less demanding. Want to be around for those kids and your wife.
I tend to agree but opportunities also do not always come when you expect or want them to.

jjface
Posts: 2966
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by jjface » Tue May 19, 2020 9:31 pm

Bb073084 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.

But yes I'd certainly be leaning towards a new position if it requires much less travel and is less demanding. Want to be around for those kids and your wife.
I tend to agree but opportunities also do not always come when you expect or want them to.
It is probably a case where you have to give up some benefits if you want the opportunity. Maybe they would be okay delaying your start date so you can take several weeks of unpaid time off? Or with the old employer you have vacation time to use. I don't know I haven't been an employee for a while so not sure what is considered okay these days.

Katietsu
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:48 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Katietsu » Tue May 19, 2020 9:36 pm

Bb073084 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.

But yes I'd certainly be leaning towards a new position if it requires much less travel and is less demanding. Want to be around for those kids and your wife.
I tend to agree but opportunities also do not always come when you expect or want them to.
Right. But 4 - 6 weeks paid paternity leave is not a necessity. It seems like you are so attached to the short term benefit of the paternity leave that you could be damaging the longer term career picture.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:37 pm

Katietsu wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:36 pm
Bb073084 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:28 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.

But yes I'd certainly be leaning towards a new position if it requires much less travel and is less demanding. Want to be around for those kids and your wife.
I tend to agree but opportunities also do not always come when you expect or want them to.
Right. But 4 - 6 weeks paid paternity leave is not a necessity. It seems like you are so attached to the short term benefit of the paternity leave that you could be damaging the longer term career picture.
With twin toddlers and a new baby I have to disagree. It will be a necessity. I have also given the current employer over 5 years dedicated service including sacrificed holidays, weekends, and vacations.

KyleAAA
Posts: 8281
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by KyleAAA » Tue May 19, 2020 10:30 pm

Option 1 is best. Ask the recruiter if there is a tenure requirement before becoming eligible for paternity leave. Most places I've worked, nobody would bat an eye at this. Strong talent is difficult to find and a good hiring manager would gladly let you kick off your employment on leave. I did something similar, although it was several months in instead of weeks, and people who have reported to me have done likewise. It's a benefit just like any other. Use it. The fact that it's within the first few weeks of employment is irrelevant. If the employer has a policy against it, fine. If not, fair game. Some companies let you take paternity leave even if the child is born before you start so long as you use it before their 1st birthday. Obviously they don't set this policy expecting nobody to use it.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Tue May 19, 2020 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cchrissyy
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by cchrissyy » Tue May 19, 2020 10:37 pm

Good luck with the job search

It's not reasonable to think you have time to start a new job and take leave there. Even if they made you an offer this week, gave 2 weeks notice, started the next Monday. That's 36 weeks pregnant! The baby could come right then.

The realistic options are to use paternity leave where you currently work, or to schedule a gap between jobs.

KyleAAA
Posts: 8281
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by KyleAAA » Tue May 19, 2020 10:39 pm

999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Do you and your wife work at the same company? Wondering if that compiles your risk of something happens to the company.

I would be upfront with the recruiter and see what they say. Don’t dig in on the paternity leave in case it is a sticking point and they weed you out of their section.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I wonder if paternity leave is used more regionally. I don’t think I know anyone first hand who has used it. If I was the employer and my recent hire did option 1, that wouldn’t set the tone well.
Benefits are much more generous on the west coast, but as far as I know they are prevalent at mid-large companies everywhere. I don't know anybody who hasn't used it, both in the southeast and on the west coast.

WL2034
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:36 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by WL2034 » Tue May 19, 2020 11:58 pm

I work for a company with a reasonably generous paternity policy, but employees are not eligible for fully paid leave until after the first year. Until then, employees may still take paternity leave in accordance with FMLA, but it’s unpaid. I would be fairly surprised if your new employer would allow you 6 weeks paid leave starting Day 1. However, if that’s their policy—I shouldn’t think they’d be too upset if you took them up on it.

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 19348
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Watty » Wed May 20, 2020 12:29 am

WL2034 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:58 pm
I work for a company with a reasonably generous paternity policy, but employees are not eligible for fully paid leave until after the first year. Until then, employees may still take paternity leave in accordance with FMLA, but it’s unpaid. I would be fairly surprised if your new employer would allow you 6 weeks paid leave starting Day 1. However, if that’s their policy—I shouldn’t think they’d be too upset if you took them up on it.
It might be legal and they might grin and go along with it but unless they knew about it before the job offer that could still leave them with a bad taste that they would not forget. Anyone hiring right now likely really needs someone to be doing that job.
Bb073084 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:05 am
When and how do I discuss this topic with recruiter/potential employer? What suggestions do people have regarding options to keep me whole and have sufficient paternity time without sacrificing new position?
I would talk to the recruiter about how to handle the situation. They have a lot of incentive to find a solution that works for everyone.

User avatar
ICMoney
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:38 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by ICMoney » Wed May 20, 2020 7:55 am

One thought based on our various experiences with maternity/paternity leave:

You will be eligible for up to 12 weeks of FMLA after she gives birth. Do you have much accrued sick time? If so, you may be allowed to take sick time starting the day the baby is born, using FMLA reason "care for family member who is incapacitated due to childbirth". (Maybe double check this with HR ahead of time, they may have a form for you to fill out so this happens seamlessly - and to confirm you would be allowed to do it this way) Then you could take the 4 weeks of paid paternity leave after sick time is exhausted, assuming it would be ok under their paternity leave policy. Maybe that would get you closer to the 6 weeks of paid leave the potential new employer is offering, and since you don't get paid out for sick leave upon termination anyway it could be a good idea to maximize the support you can provide to your wife, newborn, and toddler twins during that time. You could even burn vacation time to have further paid FMLA after that too. Again, not sure the policies would be allowed to work this way, but we have been able to do this in the past.

tashnewbie
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:44 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by tashnewbie » Wed May 20, 2020 8:32 am

Option #2 sounds like the best one.

I think you're counting your chickens before they hatch, to some extent. It's reasonable to think through all of the possibilities and be prepared if an offer is made, and you're doing that.

I'd probably wait to disclose my family situation until after an offer is made. At that point, I would tell the new employer that I couldn't start for 6-8 weeks because of 2 weeks' notice + paternity leave. I assume you were planning to take paternity leave and then give notice when you come back, but it might not work out that way if your wife's labor doesn't coincide with the making of the offer (I think it would be very weird to give notice and then take paternity leave, but it'd be advisable to check your HR policies to confirm it's even possible). If the new employer doesn't want to wait that long, then you'll just have to continue looking for a new job.

Edited to add: I think I would be looking at this situation as basically being unable to start a new job for at least 13 weeks (7 weeks assuming your wife carries to full-term + 4 weeks' paternity leave + 2 weeks' notice). If the new employer can't work with that timeline, I would keep looking. The details of all this could get really fuzzy because you're working with a somewhat unknown variable of when your wife has the baby.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Wed May 20, 2020 12:22 pm

tashnewbie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:32 am
Option #2 sounds like the best one.

I think you're counting your chickens before they hatch, to some extent. It's reasonable to think through all of the possibilities and be prepared if an offer is made, and you're doing that.

I'd probably wait to disclose my family situation until after an offer is made. At that point, I would tell the new employer that I couldn't start for 6-8 weeks because of 2 weeks' notice + paternity leave. I assume you were planning to take paternity leave and then give notice when you come back, but it might not work out that way if your wife's labor doesn't coincide with the making of the offer (I think it would be very weird to give notice and then take paternity leave, but it'd be advisable to check your HR policies to confirm it's even possible). If the new employer doesn't want to wait that long, then you'll just have to continue looking for a new job.

Edited to add: I think I would be looking at this situation as basically being unable to start a new job for at least 13 weeks (7 weeks assuming your wife carries to full-term + 4 weeks' paternity leave + 2 weeks' notice). If the new employer can't work with that timeline, I would keep looking. The details of all this could get really fuzzy because you're working with a somewhat unknown variable of when your wife has the baby.
Thank you. That is where I am leaning. We have a scheduled c-section date so I know the latest it would be but clearly baby could come early. Appreciate the feedback!

User avatar
LilyFleur
Posts: 1174
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:36 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by LilyFleur » Wed May 20, 2020 10:59 pm

I want to commend you for your dedication to your family. I wish you and your family the best!

Olemiss540
Posts: 1319
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Olemiss540 » Thu May 21, 2020 5:49 am

I would be direct when discussing this with your potential employer. You have brought up "family friendly" a dozen times already, so why would you be afraid to approach this issue with them once you receive an offer?

Do not start for a week and then ask for leave. Get the offer and then bring up your wife's pregnancy and see if they would be amenable to paternity leave or a delayed start/bonus. They msy have to pay another hire a relocation package they won't have to pay you, so it might be no big deal. Doesnt hurt to have the discussion and go from there.
I hold index funds because I do not overestimate my ability to pick stocks OR stock pickers.

wfrobinette
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by wfrobinette » Thu May 21, 2020 2:42 pm

999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Do you and your wife work at the same company? Wondering if that compiles your risk of something happens to the company.

I would be upfront with the recruiter and see what they say. Don’t dig in on the paternity leave in case it is a sticking point and they weed you out of their section.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I wonder if paternity leave is used more regionally. I don’t think I know anyone first hand who has used it. If I was the employer and my recent hire did option 1, that wouldn’t set the tone well.
I used paternity leave in 2005 while working for a PE run firm in Norfolk VA area. Its popping up at more places as time goes on. IT's usually 2 to 4 weeks max.

wfrobinette
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by wfrobinette » Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm

jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.
Yet his company would have no issue laying him off tomorrow. Its no different than taking vacation and coming in a quitting upon your return.

I'd probably resign halfway through the leave to give them more than 2 weeks?

jjface
Posts: 2966
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by jjface » Thu May 21, 2020 3:00 pm

wfrobinette wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.
Yet his company would have no issue laying him off tomorrow. Its no different than taking vacation and coming in a quitting upon your return.

I'd probably resign halfway through the leave to give them more than 2 weeks?
Though what you say about companies is probably true I try not to live with a mindset like that. They would do this to you so you should do that to them. Probably why I don't work for one. OP sounds like they are comfortable taking the leave one way or the other so no use in arguing. They know more about the situation than either of us anyway.

rich126
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by rich126 » Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm

wfrobinette wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.
Yet his company would have no issue laying him off tomorrow. Its no different than taking vacation and coming in a quitting upon your return.

I'd probably resign halfway through the leave to give them more than 2 weeks?
I find it "amusing" how many people here are obsessed with doing the right thing by the company and ignore all of the things companies do to employees. I try not to screw anyone over but I'd have no serious issues if I got a great offer and needed to leave with 1 week or even 1 day notice. It wouldn't be my first choice but I'd do it. Companies will get rid of people before they become eligible for certain incentives, they have constantly screwed people over with changes to pension plans that cost people significant amounts of money.

Anyone who really believes you should worry about the company is fooling themselves. And the only reason they are giving you a job is because they are making money off your labor not because they are charitable.

This may sound harsher than intended but too many people here are living in the past or some alternate reality.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:38 pm

rich126 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
wfrobinette wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.
Yet his company would have no issue laying him off tomorrow. Its no different than taking vacation and coming in a quitting upon your return.

I'd probably resign halfway through the leave to give them more than 2 weeks?
I find it "amusing" how many people here are obsessed with doing the right thing by the company and ignore all of the things companies do to employees. I try not to screw anyone over but I'd have no serious issues if I got a great offer and needed to leave with 1 week or even 1 day notice. It wouldn't be my first choice but I'd do it. Companies will get rid of people before they become eligible for certain incentives, they have constantly screwed people over with changes to pension plans that cost people significant amounts of money.

Anyone who really believes you should worry about the company is fooling themselves. And the only reason they are giving you a job is because they are making money off your labor not because they are charitable.

This may sound harsher than intended but too many people here are living in the past or some alternate reality.
I ideally would like to give them 3-4 weeks notice but I do have to agree if this is a great opportunity I would be willing to only give 2 weeks. I do think that, unless absolutely necessary and for an extremely good opportunity, giving less than 2 weeks is bad form and will burn bridges. I think anything over two weeks should be viewed as professional and satisfactory so long as effort is put in those last two weeks to leave everything in a good place. I have never burned a bridge in my career and not planning to do so now either.

e5116
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:22 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by e5116 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:55 pm

Wait for offer, then discuss options. Company may have benefits begin Day 1, or may not. I personally wouldn't have any qualms with taking paternity leave with either company. Some companies restrict PTO once you give your notice though..worse comes to worse, you take a few weeks off unpaid. Not the end of the world (hopefully). Make the decision to change jobs based on the job/company and not the optimal way to take paternity leave..Your current company may want you to come back after paternity for a week or whatever to transition some things if you've been there five years. good luck!

SR II
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by SR II » Thu May 21, 2020 9:04 pm

999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I wonder if paternity leave is used more regionally. I don’t think I know anyone first hand who has used it. If I was the employer and my recent hire did option 1, that wouldn’t set the tone well.
Agree.

Savvy
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 3:09 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Savvy » Thu May 21, 2020 10:20 pm

Best of luck. I'm in the same state, same function, and roughly same age. Its a great market for finance and if its the company i think it is the work life balance is great (i dont work there). DM me if you want to talk in more detail.

User avatar
Tamarind
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Tamarind » Fri May 22, 2020 8:43 am

I think you should take the leave you can take - I don't agree with those above thinking it "looks bad" to arrange a job change so that you get as much time as possible with a major family event coming up.

If the new place is family friendly and really trying to hire someone to stay 20 years, they should not have a problem with option 1. But you have the tricky task of figuring out how real their commitment to family time and benefits is. I've worked for plenty of companies that talked the talk but employees somehow never returned from maternity leave or took paternity leave.

On the flip side I went on my 2-week honeymoon 1 week after starting a new job. It just required some negotiation. I find that it helps to present what you want as obvious and sensible, just about the scheduling, rather than apologizing. It makes them think twice before saying no.

I think you would have to disclose to new employer after getting an offer but before accepting it. There's no real way to confirm that paternity leave applies to brand new employees without letting the cat out of the bag. If that caused your offer to be rescinded... Well they didn't mean what they said. Under no circumstances should you give notice at your old job without confirming that the new one will extend the leave to you.

If you really want the new job but don't want to risk disclosing, you could try to negotiate a later starting date, but the economy being what it is that could carry its own risk.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Fri May 22, 2020 1:23 pm

Tamarind wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:43 am
I think you should take the leave you can take - I don't agree with those above thinking it "looks bad" to arrange a job change so that you get as much time as possible with a major family event coming up.

If the new place is family friendly and really trying to hire someone to stay 20 years, they should not have a problem with option 1. But you have the tricky task of figuring out how real their commitment to family time and benefits is. I've worked for plenty of companies that talked the talk but employees somehow never returned from maternity leave or took paternity leave.

On the flip side I went on my 2-week honeymoon 1 week after starting a new job. It just required some negotiation. I find that it helps to present what you want as obvious and sensible, just about the scheduling, rather than apologizing. It makes them think twice before saying no.

I think you would have to disclose to new employer after getting an offer but before accepting it. There's no real way to confirm that paternity leave applies to brand new employees without letting the cat out of the bag. If that caused your offer to be rescinded... Well they didn't mean what they said. Under no circumstances should you give notice at your old job without confirming that the new one will extend the leave to you.

If you really want the new job but don't want to risk disclosing, you could try to negotiate a later starting date, but the economy being what it is that could carry its own risk.
Thank you. I will disclose after receiving an offer. Timing appears to be slowing so most likely scenario is I start a few weeks after my paternity at current company if I am extended an offer.

New Providence
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:10 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by New Providence » Sat May 23, 2020 12:04 pm

rich126 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
wfrobinette wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.
Yet his company would have no issue laying him off tomorrow. Its no different than taking vacation and coming in a quitting upon your return.

I'd probably resign halfway through the leave to give them more than 2 weeks?
I find it "amusing" how many people here are obsessed with doing the right thing by the company and ignore all of the things companies do to employees. I try not to screw anyone over but I'd have no serious issues if I got a great offer and needed to leave with 1 week or even 1 day notice. It wouldn't be my first choice but I'd do it. Companies will get rid of people before they become eligible for certain incentives, they have constantly screwed people over with changes to pension plans that cost people significant amounts of money.

Anyone who really believes you should worry about the company is fooling themselves. And the only reason they are giving you a job is because they are making money off your labor not because they are charitable.

This may sound harsher than intended but too many people here are living in the past or some alternate reality.
I completely agree that they are giving you a job because they are making money off your labour. However, it is also rather "amusing" that with 2 toddlers at home and a baby on the way OP is more concerned with taking time off than working harder to provide for a fast-expanding family.

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Sat May 23, 2020 12:46 pm

New Providence wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:04 pm
rich126 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
wfrobinette wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm
jjface wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Personally whilst I am strong about the need for paternity leave I think in your situation it is bad form to expect your current employer to give you 4 weeks paid off and then leave them or your new employer to give you 6 weeks paid off pretty much as you start. I don't know if either is normally considerded acceptable but it sounds bad to me.
Yet his company would have no issue laying him off tomorrow. Its no different than taking vacation and coming in a quitting upon your return.

I'd probably resign halfway through the leave to give them more than 2 weeks?
I find it "amusing" how many people here are obsessed with doing the right thing by the company and ignore all of the things companies do to employees. I try not to screw anyone over but I'd have no serious issues if I got a great offer and needed to leave with 1 week or even 1 day notice. It wouldn't be my first choice but I'd do it. Companies will get rid of people before they become eligible for certain incentives, they have constantly screwed people over with changes to pension plans that cost people significant amounts of money.

Anyone who really believes you should worry about the company is fooling themselves. And the only reason they are giving you a job is because they are making money off your labor not because they are charitable.

This may sound harsher than intended but too many people here are living in the past or some alternate reality.
I completely agree that they are giving you a job because they are making money off your labour. However, it is also rather "amusing" that with 2 toddlers at home and a baby on the way OP is more concerned with taking time off than working harder to provide for a fast-expanding family.
Just to be clear, I am not more concerned with taking time off than working harder. I have been successful cause I do work hard but I also work smart. Working hard is simply not enough. But, I also have a family to care for and that includes financial considerations as well as being present in their lives. I plan to work hard and provide much more value than my compensation in any role I take on. If a company is not understanding of family needs immediately after the birth of a child in this day and age it is likely not a place I would consider working for at this point.

I would appreciate if assumptions about motive, for asking a question that was meant to find a reasonable proposal if I am selected for the position, would be left at the door. I am merely preparing for a discussion that will occur during the process. Both parties are free to make their own choices on what is acceptable or not.

User avatar
Sandi_k
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Sandi_k » Sat May 23, 2020 1:57 pm

You will not be eligible for FMLA at the new job. So, are you willing to take it as Leave Without Pay, and without the job protection that FMLA provides?

https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ ... hdfs28.pdf

ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES: Only eligible employees are entitled to take FMLA leave. An eligible employee is one who:

• Works for a covered employer;
• Has worked for the employer for at least 12 months;
• Has at least 1,250 hours of service for the employer during the 12 month period immediately
preceding the leave*; and
• Works at a location where the employer has at least 50 employees within 75 miles

Topic Author
Bb073084
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:24 am

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Bb073084 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pm

Sandi_k wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:57 pm
You will not be eligible for FMLA at the new job. So, are you willing to take it as Leave Without Pay, and without the job protection that FMLA provides?

https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ ... hdfs28.pdf

ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES: Only eligible employees are entitled to take FMLA leave. An eligible employee is one who:

• Works for a covered employer;
• Has worked for the employer for at least 12 months;
• Has at least 1,250 hours of service for the employer during the 12 month period immediately
preceding the leave*; and
• Works at a location where the employer has at least 50 employees within 75 miles
Paid paternity is not part of FMLA so this is sort of irrelevant. It is a company offered benefit. I think people are missing the point here. Companies can decide what benefits they offer above and beyond what is required by law.

User avatar
Sandi_k
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: New job / wife 33 weeks pregnant / paternity

Post by Sandi_k » Sat May 23, 2020 3:05 pm

I understand that companies can differ from law. I wanted to make sure that the many responders who mentioned FMLA to you understood clearly that you will not qualify for it at the new job.

Post Reply