Airline refusing to issue refunds

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amp
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by amp » Wed May 20, 2020 7:20 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:35 pm
amp wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:13 pm

I didn't say that travel agencies can't set their own fees. I said that as ticket resellers they are subject to the same basic provisions of contract law that airlines are subject to, i.e. if they charge for a service they must provide it. They can't get around this by claiming that they are just go-betweens. That would be an an "unfair or deceptive practice" and subject to DoT regulations that I provided earlier.
The service they (the OTA) provide is to book a ticket for you with an airline. Or to cancel it. They are doing work for you and charge according to their fee schedule.
Did you read the specific federal regulation that I quoted above? It says that travel agents must provide refunds if the service cannot be performed. Not the airline, but the agent, because it would otherwise be a deceptive practice. I fail to see how this is compatible with the idea that the agency is not the one denying service so they can withhold part of the refund as a fee. And I should note that the DOT has other policies regarding the display of ancillary fees. There must be clear disclousre provided to a consumer, not just some fine print in the T&C.

Anyways it's not worth arguing anymore as it's a moot point. There is no travel agency doing business in the U.S. that ever tried to implement a refund fee before the pandemic. Even the sleaziest agencies never tried anything like that as it would run afoul of the plainly stated regulation. Only now, in desperation, do we see agencies trying to pull this stunt.

TravelGeek
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by TravelGeek » Wed May 20, 2020 7:41 pm

amp wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:20 pm
Did you read the specific federal regulation that I quoted above? It says that travel agents must provide refunds if the service cannot be performed. Not the airline, but the agent, because it would otherwise be a deceptive practice.
Yes, a refund for the price of the ticket, in full. Absolutely. But it doesn’t say that the agency isn’t allowed to charge for their work in assisting the traveler in accordance with their schedule that was disclosed and agreed to at the time of the traveler engaging the agency for assistance in booking travel.

Look, I don’t like OTAs at all. After a terrible screwup by Travelocity that a couple of very kind AA ticket agents fixed for me, I will not use any OTA unless there is no alternative to book a ticket. And if Siamond’s OTA did not disclose any cancel fees during the booking process, they should not be allowed to charge them now. But I disagree with the notion that OTAs cannot charge disclosed fees. They pay for services that are being performed, not for cancelled travel.

seawolf21
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Wed May 20, 2020 7:50 pm

amp wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:20 pm
TravelGeek wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:35 pm
amp wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:13 pm

I didn't say that travel agencies can't set their own fees. I said that as ticket resellers they are subject to the same basic provisions of contract law that airlines are subject to, i.e. if they charge for a service they must provide it. They can't get around this by claiming that they are just go-betweens. That would be an an "unfair or deceptive practice" and subject to DoT regulations that I provided earlier.
The service they (the OTA) provide is to book a ticket for you with an airline. Or to cancel it. They are doing work for you and charge according to their fee schedule.
Did you read the specific federal regulation that I quoted above? It says that travel agents must provide refunds if the service cannot be performed. Not the airline, but the agent, because it would otherwise be a deceptive practice. I fail to see how this is compatible with the idea that the agency is not the one denying service so they can withhold part of the refund as a fee. And I should note that the DOT has other policies regarding the display of ancillary fees. There must be clear disclousre provided to a consumer, not just some fine print in the T&C.

Anyways it's not worth arguing anymore as it's a moot point. There is no travel agency doing business in the U.S. that ever tried to implement a refund fee before the pandemic. Even the sleaziest agencies never tried anything like that as it would run afoul of the plainly stated regulation. Only now, in desperation, do we see agencies trying to pull this stunt.
I suppose one can make a case with 14 CFR § 399.80 (l) as you indicated. If Ovago is stating $1,000 to submit the refund, I think most people would agree that they are essentially refusing to refund but it is $25 to cover labor, then it would be understandable.

NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart » Wed May 20, 2020 7:58 pm

sperry8 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:04 am
DOT rules require a refund:

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... on/refunds

"Cancelled Flight – A passenger is entitled to a refund if the airline cancelled a flight, regardless of the reason, and the passenger chooses not to be rebooked on a new flight on that airline."

If they are not doing it send a complaint to the DOT. https://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint ... erForm.cfm
If this happened to me I would sue them in small claims court. The law is clear.

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siamond
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by siamond » Wed May 20, 2020 9:51 pm

seawolf21 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:16 pm
Honestly speaking, you don't have a case with BA as this is not BA's fee. I would try to work it out with Ovago first. If no success, you can try calling BA to see if they are willing to take over the ticket and process the refund directly. Airlines generally will refer you back to OTA but there is nothing preventing the plating carrier (BA if you ticket# begins with 125) from just refunding it from their end because Ovago is essentially charging you a fee to submit the refund request via GDS or BA agency website to BA's refund department for processing.

Your only strength is you found out that Ovago is retroactively applying T&C so you may have some standing with FTC/Chamber of Commerce/DoT etc.

I don't use OTA other than Orbitz/Travelocity(and Expedia) because they don't charge these BS fees. Before someone chimes in, OTA are able to sell some flight combinations that airlines themselves don't make readily available.

Good luck.
Ovago clearly changed their T&C after the fact and tried to use the new terms on a ticket where they don't apply. Will make clear this isn't acceptable, but I doubt this will be enough. I hear you about BA, unfortunately.

Yeah, I've learned my lesson. I never used third-parties except Expedia and Orbitz. For whatever reason, I used two (Ovago and Vayama) to purchase tickets right before the crisis, trying to save a few bucks... In both cases, I'm having a really hard time now. While I did successfully sort out the other tickets we had purchased via Expedia (Jetblue directly refunded one of those tickets, by the way, saving me some grief with Expedia).

seawolf21
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Thu May 21, 2020 12:36 am

siamond wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:51 pm
seawolf21 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:16 pm
Honestly speaking, you don't have a case with BA as this is not BA's fee. I would try to work it out with Ovago first. If no success, you can try calling BA to see if they are willing to take over the ticket and process the refund directly. Airlines generally will refer you back to OTA but there is nothing preventing the plating carrier (BA if you ticket# begins with 125) from just refunding it from their end because Ovago is essentially charging you a fee to submit the refund request via GDS or BA agency website to BA's refund department for processing.

Your only strength is you found out that Ovago is retroactively applying T&C so you may have some standing with FTC/Chamber of Commerce/DoT etc.

I don't use OTA other than Orbitz/Travelocity(and Expedia) because they don't charge these BS fees. Before someone chimes in, OTA are able to sell some flight combinations that airlines themselves don't make readily available.

Good luck.
Ovago clearly changed their T&C after the fact and tried to use the new terms on a ticket where they don't apply. Will make clear this isn't acceptable, but I doubt this will be enough. I hear you about BA, unfortunately.

Yeah, I've learned my lesson. I never used third-parties except Expedia and Orbitz. For whatever reason, I used two (Ovago and Vayama) to purchase tickets right before the crisis, trying to save a few bucks... In both cases, I'm having a really hard time now. While I did successfully sort out the other tickets we had purchased via Expedia (Jetblue directly refunded one of those tickets, by the way, saving me some grief with Expedia).
Come to think of it. Maybe you should dispute the full amount with BA under reason services not received. The reason for it is so that your card issuer will submit a chargeback to BA. BA sees this should be refunded due to cancellation and **hopefully** just agree to the chargeback and thereby bypass Ovago completely.

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siamond
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by siamond » Thu May 21, 2020 6:35 am

seawolf21 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:36 am
Come to think of it. Maybe you should dispute the full amount with BA under reason services not received. The reason for it is so that your card issuer will submit a chargeback to BA. BA sees this should be refunded due to cancellation and **hopefully** just agree to the chargeback and thereby bypass Ovago completely.
I will contact BA first, if only to have traceability of a 'friendly' refund request. If they keep refusing and redirecting me to Ovago, I might do what you suggest, but I feel that I am not on solid ground as BA would not have done anything wrong.

EDIT: just called BA, they (unsurprisingly) refused to refund themselves.
Last edited by siamond on Thu May 21, 2020 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Calico
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Calico » Thu May 21, 2020 7:07 am

I had hoped for a refund for myself (my trip to Germany) but I quickly realized that would never happen. I took a look at the flights on United at that time going to and from Germany. One of the legs of my flight was still going strong. The other wasn't there, but there were multiple return flights within 6 hours of my travel window. United policy is if your flights isn't changed more than 6 hours, you don't get a refund.

I figured, as things improve and some travel restrictions are lifted, my flight to Germany would still definitely happen since it never stopped. On the flight back, they were just going to move me to the flight two hours earlier or later. Those flights are connecting flights too, something I wanted to avoid for a variety of reasons. Not that it matters, I am worried Germany won't be opened up in a month for us to do anything anyway.

They were offering vouchers good for 24 months if you canceled by May 31, so I took it. Just in case we need to delay the trip longer than a year. If anyone is in my shoes and you get a refund, please chime in. I might go back to the airline and argue with them if they change things. I still plan to go to Germany (probably next year) but the tickets were for three people and it was $3000 total. I rather have that money in account earning interest and not give an interest free advance to United.

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siamond
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by siamond » Thu May 21, 2020 4:33 pm

siamond wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:51 pm
seawolf21 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:16 pm
Honestly speaking, you don't have a case with BA as this is not BA's fee. [...]
Your only strength is you found out that Ovago is retroactively applying T&C so you may have some standing with FTC/Chamber of Commerce/DoT etc.
Ovago clearly changed their T&C after the fact and tried to use the new terms on a ticket where they don't apply. Will make clear this isn't acceptable, but I doubt this will be enough. I hear you about BA, unfortunately.
I had a very unpleasant call with an Ovago's manager today. He was calling to negotiate the service fee, while making all sorts of claims that I had no case with the DoT or the credit card company. I mean, why would he even call to negotiate if he feels on such solid ground... He downright lied about Ovago's terms of service not changing 'in years'. He ended up refusing to process a full refund with no fee, although I clearly demonstrated that the Ovago's terms and services had no such provision at the time of the booking, while he was repetitively claiming "we don't work for free". I refused to negotiate (plenty of reviews indicated that they take the fee, then do NOT process the refund; oh, and they also post a bunch of fake reviews to try to improve their ratings; what a sleazy company).

I logged a formal complaint with the DoT and will probably do the same with the BBB. I am more hesitant about the credit card dispute though as BA didn't do anything clearly wrong. I might request a voucher from Aer Lingus while waiting for the DoT/BBB process to proceed...

seawolf21
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Thu May 21, 2020 7:16 pm

siamond wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:33 pm
siamond wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:51 pm
seawolf21 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:16 pm
Honestly speaking, you don't have a case with BA as this is not BA's fee. [...]
Your only strength is you found out that Ovago is retroactively applying T&C so you may have some standing with FTC/Chamber of Commerce/DoT etc.
Ovago clearly changed their T&C after the fact and tried to use the new terms on a ticket where they don't apply. Will make clear this isn't acceptable, but I doubt this will be enough. I hear you about BA, unfortunately.
I had a very unpleasant call with an Ovago's manager today. He was calling to negotiate the service fee, while making all sorts of claims that I had no case with the DoT or the credit card company. I mean, why would he even call to negotiate if he feels on such solid ground... He downright lied about Ovago's terms of service not changing 'in years'. He ended up refusing to process a full refund with no fee, although I clearly demonstrated that the Ovago's terms and services had no such provision at the time of the booking, while he was repetitively claiming "we don't work for free". I refused to negotiate (plenty of reviews indicated that they take the fee, then do NOT process the refund; oh, and they also post a bunch of fake reviews to try to improve their ratings; what a sleazy company).

I logged a formal complaint with the DoT and will probably do the same with the BBB. I am more hesitant about the credit card dispute though as BA didn't do anything clearly wrong. I might request a voucher from Aer Lingus while waiting for the DoT/BBB process to proceed...
Confused... if you take voucher, you are effectively agreeing to forgo the refund.

jcar
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by jcar » Thu May 21, 2020 9:28 pm

I just went through a somewhat similar deal with Princess Cruise Lines. They cancelled an April cruise for the obvious reasons. They would not refund fare. This past Friday I contacted my credit card with all my documentation. They had money back to me on Tuesday. I called them to convert to cash, no problem. The BA guy told me he had himself handled over 100 of these type issues from cruises and airlines. There hanging onto cash never mind that it's your cash.

batpot
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by batpot » Thu May 21, 2020 10:35 pm

Airbnb: Super easy cash refund
Alaska Airlines: super easy cash refund
Virgin Atlantic: have a text message promising me my miles will be restored :|
Paid a nominal fee out of pocket in addition to the miles, and will probably have to file a claim w/ credit card for that.

ponyboy
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by ponyboy » Fri May 22, 2020 5:49 am

We were supposed to board a flight yesterday for europe. Our flight was never cancelled, but american airlines allowed us to cancel and receive a full refund. WE did cancel around 1 month ago, all done online. Didnt have to speak to a representative.

Ill always fly AA moving forward. How they handled this covid thing was top notch.

stocknoob4111
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by stocknoob4111 » Fri May 29, 2020 12:01 pm

Did anyone here successfully dispute Ovago's shady $100 "agent fee"?

basspond
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by basspond » Fri May 29, 2020 12:11 pm

We have had to cancel flights, lodging, and cruises. These are not ordinary times and cancellations. If it was a flight or two, ok, but whole industries were shutdown by government mandates. We have opted for future credits with only one refund due to an elderly relative that was part of the travel. We need to all give these travel businesses a little grace. I don’t think any would be left if everyone requested a refund for their cancelled trips during this pandemic.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri May 29, 2020 12:39 pm

It looks like American cancelled the final leg of my flight (PHL to KEF), leaving only the first leg to PHL booked. Presumably, I shouldn't have a problem getting a full refund instead of a voucher/credit?

tomd37
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by tomd37 » Fri May 29, 2020 2:01 pm

BrandonBogle
I am still waiting on a refund from American Airlines. Had two tickets booked for travel April 16th Nashville>Charlotte>Wilmington. AA canceled the leg from Charlotte to Wilmington for many days in a row including our travel day. Applied for a credit card refund online for both tickets. Mine was approved and credited and wife's was not approved and given offer to use at a later date, but not what I wanted.

Wrote letter to CEO of American with no reply. Submitted online complaint to Department of Transportation. Heard back from the ten days ago they were going to contact airline. Today received email from airline saying they were looking into it. Still want my credit card refund and waiting to see what will happen. :annoyed Can't understand why mine would be approved and wife's not. Submitted same info for both requests.
Tom D.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri May 29, 2020 2:06 pm

tomd37 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:01 pm
Can't understand why mine would be approved and wife's not. Submitted same info for both requests.
Thanks Tom. My girlfriend and I were on the same booking, but while I was on the phone with the rep (who simply told me to do it online after she cancelled the itinerary) said I need to submit each ticket number separately.

With that being the case, I suspect your two submissions got assigned to different people and the one for your wife’s ticket is inept.

In my case, I wasn’t even offered rebooked options (looking at their website, an alternate route through Heathrow is $400 more per person). Given that I’m not even offered a rebook (not that I’d take it), I will hope for no hiccups.

mainiac
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by mainiac » Fri May 29, 2020 11:19 pm

We bought five tickets on Delta in December for a trip to Ireland in late March.
We canceled the trip, Delta gave us trip credits.
I figured that was all we would get.
Imagine my surprise tonight when I logged into my credit card account and saw credits from Delta, posted 2 days ago!
I did not contact Delta other than the original cancellation.
I received no communication recently.
We only received credit for 4 tickets, not 5, but I will call to find out the status of ticket #5.
I am still very surprised!

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri May 29, 2020 11:45 pm

mainiac wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:19 pm
We bought five tickets on Delta in December for a trip to Ireland in late March.
We canceled the trip, Delta gave us trip credits.
I figured that was all we would get.
Imagine my surprise tonight when I logged into my credit card account and saw credits from Delta, posted 2 days ago!
I did not contact Delta other than the original cancellation.
I received no communication recently.
We only received credit for 4 tickets, not 5, but I will call to find out the status of ticket #5.
I am still very surprised!
No such luck for me. My NY trip was supposed to be last week and all Broadway shows are still suspended (not that I would have gone ahead with the trip anyways). Delta shows it as unused credit in my wallet still. But hey, it lists Sept 2022 as the use-by date, so I’m ok with that.

denovo
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by denovo » Sat May 30, 2020 12:32 am

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:08 am
I'll note if UA is that hard up for cash, offering a substantial bonus (20%+) on a voucher as well as removing expiration dates on the vouchers during this period would probably help them quite a bit. As it is they are trying to keep your money at a 0% loan and then hope you forget about it and the "loan" will be forgiven via voucher expiration breakage. If I had a choice between a refund of my $400 flight I booked last December, or a $500 voucher that never expired, my decision might be different than the current choices of a dollar-for-dollar refund vs. a $400 voucher I have to use in the next seven months.
How much is your voucher worth if an airline files for bankruptcy?
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

fatFIRE
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by fatFIRE » Sat May 30, 2020 1:28 am

rm wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:53 pm
we had booked a spring break flight to nyc in feb early. united airlines

now we were ask for a refund. instead airline willing to only give credit. They re-routed the flights but said that's still a valid connection/flight.

Anyone have similar experience converting from credit to refund?
Can you not issue a charge back?

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Rainier
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Rainier » Sat May 30, 2020 5:06 am

Booked a trip to Italy in late 2019 for travel in August 2020 using Delta miles for a running race. The race was cancelled so I went on the Delta website and got an instant refund of my miles and the cash portion (taxes, fees, etc). It was super easy.

Based on this thread it reminds me to avoid these ultra cheap travel websites. The discounts are small and dealing with them is incredibly difficult. Whenever possible buy tickets directly from the airline or a highly reputable agent.

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8foot7
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by 8foot7 » Sat May 30, 2020 7:49 am

denovo wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 12:32 am
8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:08 am
I'll note if UA is that hard up for cash, offering a substantial bonus (20%+) on a voucher as well as removing expiration dates on the vouchers during this period would probably help them quite a bit. As it is they are trying to keep your money at a 0% loan and then hope you forget about it and the "loan" will be forgiven via voucher expiration breakage. If I had a choice between a refund of my $400 flight I booked last December, or a $500 voucher that never expired, my decision might be different than the current choices of a dollar-for-dollar refund vs. a $400 voucher I have to use in the next seven months.
How much is your voucher worth if an airline files for bankruptcy?
Depends. The majors have all been through bankruptcy and have honored their vouchers (I know because I have acquired and redeemed vouchers on each during bankruptcy during my career). I suppose a liquidated airline would pose a problem.

Klaus1411
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Klaus1411 » Sat May 30, 2020 10:25 am

I have flights with Singapore Airlines, purchased through Ovago.

Singapore Airlines cancelled the flight and are offering a full refund. Ovago have confirmed this, but are requesting a $150 admin fee per ticket to be paid up front ($600 total for my four tickets) before they will authorize Singapore Airlines to refund the cost of the flights to my card.

They've referred me to their Terms & Conditions which state...

"You may be entitled to a partial refund if you cancel your booking. In addition to the cancellation terms and conditions of the airline company, our standard fees will apply."

First point; it says if YOU cancel your booking. I haven't cancelled it, the airline did. so does that mean that this part of their T&C's doesn't apply?

Second point; when questioned, the Ovago agent advised that the amount of the cancellation fee can vary depending upon the type of ticket and airline involved, therefore these 'standard fees' are not published anywhere. That suggests that they are not readily available to the customer at the time of purchase, and Ovago are able to impose whatever fee they like at a later date. Is that legal?

Third point; I purchased my tickets using a Visa debit card. Do I still have the ability to use this chargeback facility that I've seen mentioned on here, or is that only available on credit card purchases?

The Ovago agent has provided me with an email address for his supervisor. I thought it would be prudent to start a written record of my conversations with them, and so intend to write to the supervisor to advise that I don't believe their T&C's oblige me to pay their admin fee.

If I don't get anywhere with that, their T&C's mention that any complaints will be dealt with through the US Arbitration Association, so I'll pursue that route. Also, I guess I can file an Air Travel Service complaint with the DoT and a Consumer Complaint with the Texas Attorney General's office.

The issue here seems to be that a reasonable admin fee is acceptable, but Ovago are trying to take advantage of the current situation to extract a grossly inflated one. It feels like extortion.

Does anyone have any further advice?

Klaus1411
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Klaus1411 » Sat May 30, 2020 10:34 am

I've just found this in Ovago's T&C's, under their General Rules and Conditions...

"If there are any issues related to air tickets that have been contracted through our services, do not hesitate to let us know about this. In our turn, we guarantee you to resolve the situation as soon as possible, in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created."

No mention of any admin fees there, and a suggestion that maybe they'll end up owing me for the inconvenience they're causing me.

seawolf21
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Sat May 30, 2020 12:54 pm

Klaus1411 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:34 am
I've just found this in Ovago's T&C's, under their General Rules and Conditions...

"If there are any issues related to air tickets that have been contracted through our services, do not hesitate to let us know about this. In our turn, we guarantee you to resolve the situation as soon as possible, in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created."

No mention of any admin fees there, and a suggestion that maybe they'll end up owing me for the inconvenience they're causing me.
When did you purchase the ticket? As mentioned on earlier thread, it appears Ovago might have added this fee recently and retroactively applied to purchase made before this change. That could strengthen your case with US DoT.

Try reaching out the airline directly to see if they are willing to process the refund directly. What Ovago is really doing is taking the fee and then logging onto the travel agent's version of the airline website or GDS to submit a refund request.
Last edited by seawolf21 on Sat May 30, 2020 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BashDash
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by BashDash » Sat May 30, 2020 12:55 pm

Hi all,
I had a United flight cancelled in mid April to key West. They are refusing to refund my credit card 2400. I purchased through chase portal (not using points). I have been issued an electronic travel certificate that must be used by 2022. I want cash not a travel credit. My last phone call they both United and chase insisted I was issued refund to my credit card but it will take 8 billing cycles. United refund status says ETC for electronic travel certificate.

What is my next step??

Klaus1411
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Klaus1411 » Sat May 30, 2020 1:33 pm

I purchased my tickets in January. At that time, Ovago's T&C's were...

General Conditions:
If there are any issues related to air tickets that have been contracted through our services, do not hesitate to let us know about this. In our turn, we guarantee you to resolve the situation as soon as possible, in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created.

Ticketing Policies:
You may be entitled to a partial refund if you cancel your booking. In addition to the cancellation terms and conditions of the airline company, our standard fees will apply.

Since then, they've changed their T&C's to omit...

"in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created."

… and to include a section on Force Majeure, advising that any refunds will be subject to an admin fee. It also states that for this admin fee, Ovago will simply send your request for a refund to the airline. Whether you receive the refund or not is not their concern.

I'll update as my situation progresses.

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siamond
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by siamond » Sat May 30, 2020 1:42 pm

Klaus1411 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:34 am
I've just found this in Ovago's T&C's, under their General Rules and Conditions...

"If there are any issues related to air tickets that have been contracted through our services, do not hesitate to let us know about this. In our turn, we guarantee you to resolve the situation as soon as possible, in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created."

No mention of any admin fees there, and a suggestion that maybe they'll end up owing me for the inconvenience they're causing me.
Ovago changed their terms of service in the course of April 2020, adding some text which does seem to imply service fees. I assume you bought your ticket before that, therefore their new T&C do not apply. I had a rather stormy discussion with their management on this topic, they lied to me about this T&C change, then they flat-out refused to honor their past commitment claiming "we don't work for free" (I kind of sympathize with their biz plight, but NOT with the downright dishonest business practices). See more details here, including a snapshot of their April 2nd terms of service:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=310168&start=50#p5264308

Also note that there are numerous reviews online (including a number of obviously fake reviews) about Ovago, quite a few people caved about the service fee and they didn't seem to have received any actual reimbursement.

Do try to deal directly with the airline. They DO have the power to directly reimburse you (JetBlue is very good with it; British Airways or Aer Lingus are not). If this doesn't work, either you have to fall back to a travel credit or to escalate the dispute with Ovago... But I wouldn't send them one cent.

Klaus1411
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Klaus1411 » Sat May 30, 2020 2:03 pm

siamond wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 1:42 pm
Klaus1411 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:34 am
I've just found this in Ovago's T&C's, under their General Rules and Conditions...

"If there are any issues related to air tickets that have been contracted through our services, do not hesitate to let us know about this. In our turn, we guarantee you to resolve the situation as soon as possible, in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created."

No mention of any admin fees there, and a suggestion that maybe they'll end up owing me for the inconvenience they're causing me.
Ovago changed their terms of service in the course of April 2020, adding some text which does seem to imply service fees. I assume you bought your ticket before that, therefore their new T&C do not apply. I had a rather stormy discussion with their management on this topic, they lied to me about this T&C change, then they flat-out refused to honor their past commitment claiming "we don't work for free" (I kind of sympathize with their biz plight, but NOT with the downright dishonest business practices). See more details here, including a snapshot of their April 2nd terms of service:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=310168&start=50#p5264308

Also note that there are numerous reviews online (including a number of obviously fake reviews) about Ovago, quite a few people caved about the service fee and they didn't seem to have received any actual reimbursement.

Do try to deal directly with the airline. They DO have the power to directly reimburse you (JetBlue is very good with it; British Airways or Aer Lingus are not). If this doesn't work, either you have to fall back to a travel credit or to escalate the dispute with Ovago... But I wouldn't send them one cent.
I've absolutely no intention of giving them any money. I'll write to them, stating my case that I don't believe they can charge me these fees as they weren't upfront about them at the time of purchase.

At the same time, I'm going to try and contact the airline directly to see if my refund can bypass the agent. After all, the original payment was taken from my account by the airline themselves.

If I don't receive satisfaction from Ovago, my next recourse will be to register a complaint with the Texas Attorney General, the DoT, and to raise my dispute with the US Arbitration Association (as per Ovago's own T&C's).

seawolf21
Posts: 602
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Sat May 30, 2020 3:26 pm

siamond wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 1:42 pm
Klaus1411 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:34 am
I've just found this in Ovago's T&C's, under their General Rules and Conditions...

"If there are any issues related to air tickets that have been contracted through our services, do not hesitate to let us know about this. In our turn, we guarantee you to resolve the situation as soon as possible, in which we will reimburse all additional costs incurred by you, including the inconvenience created."

No mention of any admin fees there, and a suggestion that maybe they'll end up owing me for the inconvenience they're causing me.
Ovago changed their terms of service in the course of April 2020, adding some text which does seem to imply service fees. I assume you bought your ticket before that, therefore their new T&C do not apply. I had a rather stormy discussion with their management on this topic, they lied to me about this T&C change, then they flat-out refused to honor their past commitment claiming "we don't work for free" (I kind of sympathize with their biz plight, but NOT with the downright dishonest business practices). See more details here, including a snapshot of their April 2nd terms of service:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=310168&start=50#p5264308

Also note that there are numerous reviews online (including a number of obviously fake reviews) about Ovago, quite a few people caved about the service fee and they didn't seem to have received any actual reimbursement.

Do try to deal directly with the airline. They DO have the power to directly reimburse you (JetBlue is very good with it; British Airways or Aer Lingus are not). If this doesn't work, either you have to fall back to a travel credit or to escalate the dispute with Ovago... But I wouldn't send them one cent.
My understanding is their change is an addition of force majeure. I don’t see their definition of force majeure even applying to COVID. It’s not a labor strike. Airspace is not closed and airlines are free to keep whatever schedules they want. So these schedule changes are well within airline controls.

BashDash
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United not giving a cash refund

Post by BashDash » Sat May 30, 2020 7:40 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Hi all,
I had a United flight cancelled in mid April to key West. They are refusing to refund my credit card 2400. I purchased through chase portal (not using points). I have been issued an electronic travel certificate that must be used by 2022. I want cash not a travel credit. My last phone call they both United and chase insisted I was issued refund to my credit card but it will take 8 billing cycles. United refund status says ETC for electronic travel certificate.

What is my next step??

TravelGeek
Posts: 3583
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Re: United not giving a cash refund

Post by TravelGeek » Sat May 30, 2020 7:49 pm

Eight billing cycles? They must be joking; I’d file a DOT complaint.

You might want to review this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=5283547#p5283547

fabdog
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Location: Williamsburg VA

Re: United not giving a cash refund

Post by fabdog » Sat May 30, 2020 7:50 pm

My last phone call they both United and chase insisted I was issued refund to my credit card but it will take 8 billing cycles
Sorry, I'm confused. Both United and Chase said you will get a refund but it will take 8 billing cycles? But you also got a certificate?

Mike

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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by LadyGeek » Sat May 30, 2020 8:24 pm

I merged BashDash's thread into a similar discussion.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

BashDash
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by BashDash » Sat May 30, 2020 8:34 pm

I can see why you are confused. I've gone through the online refund process and gotten a electronic travel certificate. Then, unhappy with this I called United directly to ask for a cash refund to my cc. They went as far as taking my cc number and telling me to just wait six weeks and it will come even though they refused to document this. I wait six weeks and nothing. I called United yesterday and they have no memory of this conversation. Today, I called Chase ( who I purchased the tickets with thru their portal) and they call United while I'm on the line and they keep repeating that I am getting a cc refund but it's on the form of an electronic travel certificate. Weird! This is exhausting.

BogleBoogie
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Location: AK

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by BogleBoogie » Sat May 30, 2020 8:46 pm

student wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:15 pm
If they are not cancelling or changed it "sufficiently" enough, I do not know there is much you can do. See viewtopic.php?f=11&t=309791 for a recent discussion.
I cancelled two flights referring to the change they made as "significant" and cited the Department of Transportation direction to airlines. I got refunds on both. One changed only by 1 hour.

student
Posts: 4805
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by student » Sun May 31, 2020 8:12 am

BogleBoogie wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 8:46 pm
student wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:15 pm
If they are not cancelling or changed it "sufficiently" enough, I do not know there is much you can do. See viewtopic.php?f=11&t=309791 for a recent discussion.
I cancelled two flights referring to the change they made as "significant" and cited the Department of Transportation direction to airlines. I got refunds on both. One changed only by 1 hour.
Can you tell me which airline? I have a trip coming up that I don't want to go and you far the change is insignificant. Thanks.

Yukon
Posts: 306
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Yukon » Sun May 31, 2020 12:48 pm

Iberia refuses to offer a refund for our trip to Spain from DC in July. They are only offering credit or change. Customer service suggested refunds are only eligible for a cancelled flight and the flight is still a go for July
Don't Work Forever.

Chip
Posts: 2925
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:57 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Chip » Sun May 31, 2020 1:28 pm

Yukon wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 12:48 pm
Iberia refuses to offer a refund for our trip to Spain from DC in July. They are only offering credit or change. Customer service suggested refunds are only eligible for a cancelled flight and the flight is still a go for July
If you haven't cancelled yet, be patient and wait until they cancel the flight. THEN ask for a refund.

1130Super
Posts: 445
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by 1130Super » Sun May 31, 2020 1:43 pm

They don’t have to issue a refund unless they cancel the flight.
1. Either hope they cancel and then ask for refund
2. Go on trip as planned if they don’t cancel
3. Take the credits toward future flight
4. Try and dispute charges with CC

seawolf21
Posts: 602
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:12 pm

1130Super wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:43 pm
They don’t have to issue a refund unless they cancel the flight.
1. Either hope they cancel and then ask for refund
2. Go on trip as planned if they don’t cancel
3. Take the credits toward future flight
4. Try and dispute charges with CC
There is no basis for initiating a dispute if the flight time is not changed or cancelled.

1130Super
Posts: 445
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by 1130Super » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:23 am

seawolf21 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 8:12 pm
1130Super wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:43 pm
They don’t have to issue a refund unless they cancel the flight.
1. Either hope they cancel and then ask for refund
2. Go on trip as planned if they don’t cancel
3. Take the credits toward future flight
4. Try and dispute charges with CC
There is no basis for initiating a dispute if the flight time is not changed or cancelled.
I did say “try” with the Covid-19 environment some companies are being very forgiving.

Generator515
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Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Generator515 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:59 am

Booked a flight using chase ultimate rewardS on TAP to Portugal which should have been last week. Airline c cancelled three weeks ago but still only thing voucher. Chase had been no help only willing to email TAP. Now they say TAP will not be responding to US based agents until mid July.

seawolf21
Posts: 602
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by seawolf21 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:11 am

1130Super wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:23 am
seawolf21 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 8:12 pm
1130Super wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:43 pm
They don’t have to issue a refund unless they cancel the flight.
1. Either hope they cancel and then ask for refund
2. Go on trip as planned if they don’t cancel
3. Take the credits toward future flight
4. Try and dispute charges with CC
There is no basis for initiating a dispute if the flight time is not changed or cancelled.
I did say “try” with the Covid-19 environment some companies are being very forgiving.
So are you essentially suggesting OP to “try and ask card issuer to pay for the ticket out of the bank’s pocket” as there is no valid dispute with what OP provided within the chargeback framework?

Yukon
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Yukon » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:02 am

Chip wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:28 pm
Yukon wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 12:48 pm
Iberia refuses to offer a refund for our trip to Spain from DC in July. They are only offering credit or change. Customer service suggested refunds are only eligible for a cancelled flight and the flight is still a go for July
If you haven't cancelled yet, be patient and wait until they cancel the flight. THEN ask for a refund.
That's the plan!
Don't Work Forever.

CharacterCounts
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:58 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by CharacterCounts » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:20 pm

SAS cancelled round trip flight and offered a refund. Originally told to expect refund in 30 days. When I inquired at 30 days I was told it will now be 90 days. Should I wait or file a complaint with the credit card (which I've never done before)?

Klaus1411
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 8:55 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Klaus1411 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:30 am

Summary and (potential) Solution:

I bought tickets through Ovago in January.

Airline notified me that they had cancelled the flight and that a full refund was available.

Contacted Ovago and they advised that a $150 per ticket admin fee had to be paid up front before they would request the refund from the airline.

Investigation of their T&C's reveals that they were changed recently to include wording covering Force Majeure (acts of god, such as the current pandemic). This wording states that although the airline may offer a full refund, Ovago will charge an admin fee to process a request for it. The actual amount of the fee is not published.

The original T&C's (in effect at the time of purchase) make no mention of an admin fee being imposed in such circumstances.

I contested the fee with the Ovago agent and requested supervisor contact details so I could escalate.

Email sent to supervisor to state I will not pay the fee and to request refund in full.

The following day, Ovago attempt to debit the fee from my account ($600 in total), without permission and after having been told not to do so. I contact my bank to put a block on the transaction, and cancel my card.

Noticing that the original payment for the tickets was taken from my account by the airline (and not by Ovago), I file a transaction dispute (chargeback) with my bank. My bank have (tentatively) issued a refund to me, whilst they wait to see if the airline will contest whether they should be paid for providing the service I purchased (flights which have since been cancelled).

I wait with fingers crossed.

Forzamilano10
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:04 am

Re: Airline refusing to issue refunds

Post by Forzamilano10 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:51 am

Norwegian airlines finally deposited our refund about three weeks ago. Amtrak was very fast with their refund.

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