Refinance Mega Thread

[snorLAX]

Not sure if this is off-topic but could someone help me understand a few things on my refinance loan estimate?

I have around $650k left on a 7 year ARM that's around 68% LTV. Chase gave me an estimate for 30 year fixed with a loan amount of $655k and a 3.49% interest rate. The confusion I have is around the loan amount and closing costs.

Origination Charges: $1387 (total, breakdown below)

• % of Loan Amount (Points): $0

• Processing Fee: $1150

• Project Processing Fee: $150

• Tax Service Fee: $87

Credit Report Fee: $22
Title Fees: $1041
Recording Fees: $174
Prepaids: $1440 ($62.60 for 23 days at 3.49%)
Lender Credits: -$1545
Total: $2519

For some reason, my total refinance loan amount is $655k and minus my remaining loan balance of $650k and closing costs of $2.5k, there's an extra $2.5k that I'm getting back.

• Shouldn't the loan be just for $650k? Or $652.5k if they roll the closing costs in? I assume I should pay the closing costs immediately so it doesn't incur any additional extra interest

• I believe the estimate includes (0.236)% discount points for $1545 but I don't see that anywhere in my fees. Does the 3.49% interest rate on the first page of the loan estimate typically include the discount already?

[dctech]

I just locked a 30 yr fixed @ 2.875% for $249 in points, no origination fee and waived appraisal. $499k loan with $670k estimated value = 74% LTV. I'll end up paying about $1,200 out of pocket including the title work.

I thought I had missed the 2 day period where I could get below 3% back in early March, but here we are again. I am coming from a 3.375% I just funded in February. The original mortgage was at 4.0% from March last year.

This is through First Mortgage Direct which I found through bankrate. The lenders are changing on these sites (bankrate, nerdwallet, zillow, etc) almost minute to minute so keep trying like I have been for about a month now. I'm guessing (hoping) this will be my final refi on this house, but who knows!

Good Luck out there!

15 year?

Nope. 30 year. Otherwise it would not have been worth posting.

[frankandbeans]

Not sure if this is off-topic but could someone help me understand a few things on my refinance loan estimate?

I have around $650k left on a 7 year ARM that's around 68% LTV. Chase gave me an estimate for 30 year fixed with a loan amount of $655k and a 3.49% interest rate. The confusion I have is around the loan amount and closing costs.

Origination Charges: $1387 (total, breakdown below)

• % of Loan Amount (Points): $0

• Processing Fee: $1150

• Project Processing Fee: $150

• Tax Service Fee: $87

Credit Report Fee: $22
Title Fees: $1041
Recording Fees: $174
Prepaids: $1440 ($62.60 for 23 days at 3.49%)
Lender Credits: -$1545
Total: $2519

For some reason, my total refinance loan amount is $655k and minus my remaining loan balance of $650k and closing costs of $2.5k, there's an extra $2.5k that I'm getting back.

• Shouldn't the loan be just for $650k? Or $652.5k if they roll the closing costs in? I assume I should pay the closing costs immediately so it doesn't incur any additional extra interest

• I believe the estimate includes (0.236)% discount points for $1545 but I don't see that anywhere in my fees. Does the 3.49% interest rate on the first page of the loan estimate typically include the discount already?

1. On a refi, you're allowed to take a small (usually lesser of $2k or 2%, but Chase's rule may vary somewhat) amount of cash out without affecting the rate but don't have to. You should be able to ask them to change the loan amount to $650 or 652.5 without changing the other terms. Whether to roll in costs is a matter of preference and how you feel about increasing your principal balance at your interest rate.

2. You listed the $1545 lender credit you are getting as a result of the negative quarter point on this rate. Yes, the interest rate reflects the points insofar as the rate would be slightly lower on a pure "par" transaction without that negative quarter point. The APR on page 3 of the estimate reflects the points more directly, as it will show a smaller spread with the interest rate where there are negative points (as here) and a larger spread if you lowered the rate by buying points.

[papito23]

I started looking around in March. Currently have 5 years left at 3.50% on ~$38K balance, personal loan with my father.

I wanted a cash-out refinance in order to purchase some land. I had been prepaying my mortgage which I guess know I slightly regret for the loss of liquidity.

I got commercial quotes to show my dad where real world offers were coming in and gave him the option of redoing the mortgage if we wanted.

LenderFi: submitted app on 3/8/20. They've been so busy that they never got back to me.

Better.com: 3/6/20, 4.00% for 15 yr and $1,903 points, $40K cash-out

Local credit union: 3/10/20, 2.375% plus $1,805 closing costs, 10 year loan. (APR of 2.869%). Other local banks rates were sub-3% for 10-15 yrs, APR around 2.9-3.2

Quicken Loans/Rocket mortgage: 3/9/10, 15 yr fixed, 3.375%, $3,900 in points, 4.081% APR. They had the worst numbers but the best customer service, agent was very helpful/personable.

In the end, I talked it over with my father. I was intend on this land purchase and so needed a financing mechanism. He just couldn't stomach me paying a bunch of fees to outside entities, so we are redoing the mortgage at 2.75% for 15 years without closing costs, other than filing it at the courthouse. Win-win.

[nolesrule]

Not sure if this is off-topic but could someone help me understand a few things on my refinance loan estimate?

I have around $650k left on a 7 year ARM that's around 68% LTV. Chase gave me an estimate for 30 year fixed with a loan amount of $655k and a 3.49% interest rate. The confusion I have is around the loan amount and closing costs.

Origination Charges: $1387 (total, breakdown below)

• % of Loan Amount (Points): $0

• Processing Fee: $1150

• Project Processing Fee: $150

• Tax Service Fee: $87

Credit Report Fee: $22
Title Fees: $1041
Recording Fees: $174
Prepaids: $1440 ($62.60 for 23 days at 3.49%)
Lender Credits: -$1545
Total: $2519

For some reason, my total refinance loan amount is $655k and minus my remaining loan balance of $650k and closing costs of $2.5k, there's an extra $2.5k that I'm getting back.

• Shouldn't the loan be just for $650k? Or $652.5k if they roll the closing costs in? I assume I should pay the closing costs immediately so it doesn't incur any additional extra interest

• I believe the estimate includes (0.236)% discount points for $1545 but I don't see that anywhere in my fees. Does the 3.49% interest rate on the first page of the loan estimate typically include the discount already?

Just realize this estimate does not include the actual payoff cost on your current loan, which includes the interest since your last payment (and like prepaid interest for the new loan is dependent on when the loan actually funds). This won't get shown on a loan estimate. I think they increase the new loan amount on the assumption you will roll that part of the payoff into the loan. Just tell them the loan amount you want, but it changes the amount you'll need to bring to closing.

[snorLAX]

1. On a refi, you're allowed to take a small (usually lesser of $2k or 2%, but Chase's rule may vary somewhat) amount of cash out without affecting the rate but don't have to. You should be able to ask them to change the loan amount to $650 or 652.5 without changing the other terms. Whether to roll in costs is a matter of preference and how you feel about increasing your principal balance at your interest rate.

2. You listed the $1545 lender credit you are getting as a result of the negative quarter point on this rate. Yes, the interest rate reflects the points insofar as the rate would be slightly lower on a pure "par" transaction without that negative quarter point. The APR on page 3 of the estimate reflects the points more directly, as it will show a smaller spread with the interest rate where there are negative points (as here) and a larger spread if you lowered the rate by buying points.

Ah thank you for the clarification! I mistakenly thought that I was paying points the whole time when it was the other way around.

[MortgageOnBlack]

Thank you! I followed the advice of this thraed and used the Northpointe Loan Estimate I received to leverage into a better deal through a local broker. The original deal from Nortpointe was 15 year, 2.625%, for $2280 in total fees (origination, title fees, appraisal , etc..- I do not consider Escrow money and pre-paid interest to be part of price since it's just money being moved around). I used this loan estimate to get 15-year, 2.625% with $756 in total fees through my local broker.
I recommend that you immediately call around to as many lenders as soon you get a loan estimate you like.

I close tomorrow and I'm quite happy, Thank you!

Quick Question: My May mortgage/escrow payment is posting to my current lender today. The closing is tomorrow and all of the closing docs have already been printed. Since all of the closing docs are for the payoff amount prior to my payment today, will my current lender send me a refund check for my May payment once the dust settles? I don't mind swinging the payment for a little bit.

Thanks

[ig77]

Thank you! I followed the advice of this thraed and used the Northpointe Loan Estimate I received to leverage into a better deal through a local broker. The original deal from Nortpointe was 15 year, 2.625%, for $2280 in total fees (origination, title fees, appraisal , etc..- I do not consider Escrow money and pre-paid interest to be part of price since it's just money being moved around). I used this loan estimate to get 15-year, 2.625% with $756 in total fees through my local broker.
I recommend that you immediately call around to as many lenders as soon you get a loan estimate you like.

I close tomorrow and I'm quite happy, Thank you!

Quick Question: My May mortgage/escrow payment is posting to my current lender today. The closing is tomorrow and all of the closing docs have already been printed. Since all of the closing docs are for the payoff amount prior to my payment today, will my current lender send me a refund check for my May payment once the dust settles? I don't mind swinging the payment for a little bit.

Thanks

Congrats. I am planning on doing something similar and have been in touch with Northpointe. My biggest issue with them is the delay in getting questions answered and getting estimates in a timely manner. With so much volatility in the mortgage rates, how quickly was the turnaround time for you to get an estimate and get it matched by other lenders? Also, NP includes appraisal in their estimates. My property does not need an appraisal. Did you need one? If not, when your lender matched their estimate, was it after excluding the appraisal costs?

[BrandonBogle]

Quick Question: My May mortgage/escrow payment is posting to my current lender today. The closing is tomorrow and all of the closing docs have already been printed. Since all of the closing docs are for the payoff amount prior to my payment today, will my current lender send me a refund check for my May payment once the dust settles? I don't mind swinging the payment for a little bit.

Thanks

Typically yes. There is a small chance it would go to the new servicer or closing attorney to forward to the new servicer, but that would only happen if there was paperwork stating as such and it’s rare to see. In all my previous refis, I always got a small check from the old lender a couple weeks later. In my case though, those were all based on a 10-day estimate and the check/wire getting to them before the 10 days, leading to an overpayment. The same should apply in your case.

[SpicyUnagi]

Just closed on our refinance yesterday. We built a new home and closed on it in March of this year. That loan was 30 years at 4.10%, 610k property value and 450k loan. I refinanced through Accunet Mortgage with another 30 year but at 3.625% on what was now a 351k loan with nearly a $500 credit at closing. I was amazed that I was essentially getting paid to switch to a lower interest payment. It was definitely worth the 30 minutes of document gathering and then another 15 minutes of signing the closing documents. We will continue to make our mortgage payment at the old loan’s amount so that additional principal is paid down.

I thankfully could also use them.

What I've been after gathering notes on is if anyone has qualified for 2.875% APR or less on a 15 year refinance, without having to pay points, or egregiously high closing fees (in excess of $2000), on a note that exceeds $200K outstanding. I have about 30% equity into my house. Both wife and I would be 740+. Otherwise I'd do what this person above me just did, and continue making extra principal payments.

[JimmyD]

Just closed on our refinance yesterday. We built a new home and closed on it in March of this year. That loan was 30 years at 4.10%, 610k property value and 450k loan. I refinanced through Accunet Mortgage with another 30 year but at 3.625% on what was now a 351k loan with nearly a $500 credit at closing. I was amazed that I was essentially getting paid to switch to a lower interest payment. It was definitely worth the 30 minutes of document gathering and then another 15 minutes of signing the closing documents. We will continue to make our mortgage payment at the old loan’s amount so that additional principal is paid down.

I thankfully could also use them.

What I've been after gathering notes on is if anyone has qualified for 2.875% APR or less on a 15 year refinance, without having to pay points, or egregiously high closing fees (in excess of $2000), on a note that exceeds $200K outstanding. I have about 30% equity into my house. Both wife and I would be 740+. Otherwise I'd do what this person above me just did, and continue making extra principal payments.

We did a 2.875% 15-year refi with LenderFi back in early March for ~$240,000 on a ~$410,000 house.$1,150 in fees. Taxes + Escrow extra.

Our FICO scores were around 800 at the time.

[frankandbeans]

My Northpointe loan officer has been extremely quick and responsive--way more so than LenderFi was last month.

4/11 (Sat): Submitted info through contact form on website
4/12 (Sun): Received quote, submitted app and docs, and locked rate
4/14 (Tues): Received/signed initial disclosures and lock agreement and paid deposit
4/15 (Wed): Received confirmation loan sent to processing

Updating this for benefit of others in process with Northpointe:

5/4: Received "initial approval" from underwriting. Nothing has been requested beyond the initial batch of documents submitted with application. Close scheduled for 5/24.

[SpicyUnagi]

Just closed on our refinance yesterday. We built a new home and closed on it in March of this year. That loan was 30 years at 4.10%, 610k property value and 450k loan. I refinanced through Accunet Mortgage with another 30 year but at 3.625% on what was now a 351k loan with nearly a $500 credit at closing. I was amazed that I was essentially getting paid to switch to a lower interest payment. It was definitely worth the 30 minutes of document gathering and then another 15 minutes of signing the closing documents. We will continue to make our mortgage payment at the old loan’s amount so that additional principal is paid down.

I thankfully could also use them.

What I've been after gathering notes on is if anyone has qualified for 2.875% APR or less on a 15 year refinance, without having to pay points, or egregiously high closing fees (in excess of $2000), on a note that exceeds $200K outstanding. I have about 30% equity into my house. Both wife and I would be 740+. Otherwise I'd do what this person above me just did, and continue making extra principal payments.

We did a 2.875% 15-year refi with LenderFi back in early March for ~$240,000 on a ~$410,000 house.$1,150 in fees. Taxes + Escrow extra.

Our FICO scores were around 800 at the time.

They required escrow (I forgot to mention this), yes? This is money they earn float on, so the rate isn't actually what they quoted you at, they make more money on the back end investing your escrow dollars, as minor as that may seem.

30 year 3.875 APR, in year 3 at the moment, making extra principal payments, currently. No escrow required.

[JimmyD]

Just closed on our refinance yesterday. We built a new home and closed on it in March of this year. That loan was 30 years at 4.10%, 610k property value and 450k loan. I refinanced through Accunet Mortgage with another 30 year but at 3.625% on what was now a 351k loan with nearly a $500 credit at closing. I was amazed that I was essentially getting paid to switch to a lower interest payment. It was definitely worth the 30 minutes of document gathering and then another 15 minutes of signing the closing documents. We will continue to make our mortgage payment at the old loan’s amount so that additional principal is paid down.

I thankfully could also use them.

What I've been after gathering notes on is if anyone has qualified for 2.875% APR or less on a 15 year refinance, without having to pay points, or egregiously high closing fees (in excess of $2000), on a note that exceeds $200K outstanding. I have about 30% equity into my house. Both wife and I would be 740+. Otherwise I'd do what this person above me just did, and continue making extra principal payments.

We did a 2.875% 15-year refi with LenderFi back in early March for ~$240,000 on a ~$410,000 house.$1,150 in fees. Taxes + Escrow extra.

Our FICO scores were around 800 at the time.

They required escrow (I forgot to mention this for you), yes? This is money they earn float on, so the rate isn't actually what they quoted you at, they make more money on the back end investing your escrow dollars, as minor as that may seem.

30 year 3.875 APR, in year 3 at the moment, making extra principal payments, currently. No escrow required.

Yes, escrow was hefty, but the refund check I received from my then current lender covered it.

[orangecrushv]

My Northpointe loan officer has been extremely quick and responsive--way more so than LenderFi was last month.

4/11 (Sat): Submitted info through contact form on website
4/12 (Sun): Received quote, submitted app and docs, and locked rate
4/14 (Tues): Received/signed initial disclosures and lock agreement and paid deposit
4/15 (Wed): Received confirmation loan sent to processing

Updating this for benefit of others in process with Northpointe:

5/4: Received "initial approval" from underwriting. Nothing has been requested beyond the initial batch of documents submitted with application. Close scheduled for 5/24.

I’m six days behind you on “sent to processing” so hopefully I’m no more than that from approval... thanks for the update!

[investor2018]

Hi,

I am looking for refinance. We currently have 5/5 ARM from PenFed with 2.89%. The next renewal is coming early 2021. Below is what I am getting for 30 year fixed rate. 3.5% for full current loan amount ($592K). If we reduce the loan amount to $510, we will get 3% rate. What will you recommend? Should we pay about $80K to reduce the current balance to get 3% rate?

Current balance: $592K
Current Home Value: $1M

Jumbo at $595K loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.5% with 0 points
Regular Conforming loan at $510,400 loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.00% with 0 points
So if we bring our loan down to the regular conforming limit the rate is at 3.00%

[frankandbeans]

Hi,

I am looking for refinance. We currently have 5/5 ARM from PenFed with 2.89%. The next renewal is coming early 2021. Below is what I am getting for 30 year fixed rate. 3.5% for full current loan amount ($592K). If we reduce the loan amount to $510, we will get 3% rate. What will you recommend? Should we pay about $80K to reduce the current balance to get 3% rate?

Current balance: $592K
Current Home Value: $1M

Jumbo at $595K loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.5% with 0 points
Regular Conforming loan at $510,400 loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.00% with 0 points
So if we bring our loan down to the regular conforming limit the rate is at 3.00%

What's the index for your rate reset? Not sure I would be in a hurry to refinance to a higher rate given that rates will very likely still be low in early 2021.

[BrandonBogle]

Hi,

I am looking for refinance. We currently have 5/5 ARM from PenFed with 2.89%. The next renewal is coming early 2021. Below is what I am getting for 30 year fixed rate. 3.5% for full current loan amount ($592K). If we reduce the loan amount to $510, we will get 3% rate. What will you recommend? Should we pay about $80K to reduce the current balance to get 3% rate?

Current balance: $592K
Current Home Value: $1M

Jumbo at $595K loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.5% with 0 points
Regular Conforming loan at $510,400 loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.00% with 0 points
So if we bring our loan down to the regular conforming limit the rate is at 3.00%

What's the index for your rate reset? Not sure I would be in a hurry to refinance to a higher rate given that rates will very likely still be low in early 2021.

I would seriously consider it. It is pegged to 5 year Treasury Constant Maturity + 2% (or 1% if the mortgage is from before 2011 or so). Today, that is 0.36% + 2% = 2.36%. PenFed's 5/5 also carries a 2% lifetime floor. 3% is a bitter pill to eat, but the assurance of a fixed rate is very nice.

References to the above: my own PenFed 5/5s from the early 2000s, 2011, and 2017. The early 2000s loan had a +1 index and the rest have +2 on the index.

[BrandonBogle]

Hmm, new wrinkle. Turns out that if I accept having an escrow, the points are a flat $400 less. In essence, I could end up with 2.625% with $100 in my pocket and no closing costs (though, escrow prepay). While I'm not a fan of escrow to begin with, it's tempting. Have people found that lenders are generally easy to drop the escrow down the road, say 2-6 months from now? I have a 46% LTV, so I hadn't expected to essentially be paying a penalty to waive the escrow.

Nice. I pushed them on it and they agreed to use the $400 less costs w/o adding in the escrow. When I spoke to them last, they wouldn't budge further. But I think interest rates moved to my benefit since I locked (I've gotten a few quotes for 2.375% and 2.5%, but w/ fees or points I would never pay) and they agreed to do the small decrease. Now just the waiting game to come out of underwriting.

[investor2018]

Hi,

I am looking for refinance. We currently have 5/5 ARM from PenFed with 2.89%. The next renewal is coming early 2021. Below is what I am getting for 30 year fixed rate. 3.5% for full current loan amount ($592K). If we reduce the loan amount to $510, we will get 3% rate. What will you recommend? Should we pay about $80K to reduce the current balance to get 3% rate?

Current balance: $592K
Current Home Value: $1M

Jumbo at $595K loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.5% with 0 points
Regular Conforming loan at $510,400 loan amount with no escrows and excellent credit. 3.00% with 0 points
So if we bring our loan down to the regular conforming limit the rate is at 3.00%

What's the index for your rate reset? Not sure I would be in a hurry to refinance to a higher rate given that rates will very likely still be low in early 2021.

I would seriously consider it. It is pegged to 5 year Treasury Constant Maturity + 2% (or 1% if the mortgage is from before 2011 or so). Today, that is 0.36% + 2% = 2.36%. PenFed's 5/5 also carries a 2% lifetime floor. 3% is a bitter pill to eat, but the assurance of a fixed rate is very nice.

References to the above: my own PenFed 5/5s from the early 2000s, 2011, and 2017. The early 2000s loan had a +1 index and the rest have +2 on the index.

Thanks for the advice. First time home owner. We bought the house in 2016 and 5/5 ARM is going to renew in Feb 2021. Hope 5 year Treasury Constant Maturity stays below 1% so we get the rates under 3% for next 5 years.

[srqnole]

Longtime lurker here on the forums and gained lots of valuable advice over the past few months! Just wanted to share my current experience with a refinance. I have reached out to a number of lenders recommended on this thread (Northpoint, Lenderfi, Better.com as well as large banks, community banks and credit unions. I have found that the best offers for me have been with small community banks and credit unions. I am currently in the process of refinancing my 15 year mortgage at 3.625% to a 15 year mortgage at 2.375% with no points. Closing costs are a little higher than I would like, but seems like a fair deal overall. This is through a local credit union.

[BrandonBogle]

Thanks for the advice. First time home owner. We bought the house in 2016 and 5/5 ARM is going to renew in Feb 2021. Hope 5 year Treasury Constant Maturity stays below 1% so we get the rates under 3% for next 5 years.

No problem. My 5/5 resets May 2022, but I’m going to close this money on a 2.625% 15-year instead (details on the past few pages of this same thread). Even at 2.875% (where I started the loan search), I would switch to a fixed rate. Once you get to 3%, that is definitely harder to stomach since now one is guaranteed to pay more in the short-term. PenFed generally is competitive To okay (they used to be phenomenal), but at the moment they’ve even dropped the 5/5 altogether from being originated for new loans.

[marshall]

I’m closing on a streamlined VA refinance this week. 2.75% 30 year mortgage rate with $9,000 in lender credits.

[tarnation]

Closed on my aimloan refi. Got funded today. I ranted about them up thread, but after that my wife sent a strongly worded letter to the CEO. He responded , apologized, and they took immediate action to remedy our problem. Two days after that email, they had a notary at our house closing (again). So, I would say they redeemed themselves. You can’t assure problems won’t ever happen, but when people do the right things when they do happen, it counts.

[dabrian]

Thanks for the advice. First time home owner. We bought the house in 2016 and 5/5 ARM is going to renew in Feb 2021. Hope 5 year Treasury Constant Maturity stays below 1% so we get the rates under 3% for next 5 years.

No problem. My 5/5 resets May 2022, but I’m going to close this money on a 2.625% 15-year instead (details on the past few pages of this same thread). Even at 2.875% (where I started the loan search), I would switch to a fixed rate. Once you get to 3%, that is definitely harder to stomach since now one is guaranteed to pay more in the short-term. PenFed generally is competitive To okay (they used to be phenomenal), but at the moment they’ve even dropped the 5/5 altogether from being originated for new loans.

Hopefully yours goes smoother than mine. I got a great rate with my local CU but the refi is taking forever. Started the process late March and still no closing date in sight.

[nova148]

Longtime lurker here on the forums and gained lots of valuable advice over the past few months! Just wanted to share my current experience with a refinance. I have reached out to a number of lenders recommended on this thread (Northpoint, Lenderfi, Better.com as well as large banks, community banks and credit unions. I have found that the best offers for me have been with small community banks and credit unions. I am currently in the process of refinancing my 15 year mortgage at 3.625% to a 15 year mortgage at 2.375% with no points. Closing costs are a little higher than I would like, but seems like a fair deal overall. This is through a local credit union.

Congratulations! That's a awesome deal (lowest I have seen for 15 yr. personally). Would you mind sharing some details - type of loan (conventional, high balance, jumbo), amount (approx), state, name of the credit union (if you feel comfortable)?

[nova148]

Dear BHs, Need some guidance.

Last week, I shopped for mortgage and applied to Lender-1 at x% rate. They were able to lock the rate and submit the application to underwriting same day (I completed online application and submitted required docs). Couple days later, received a quote from Lender-2 at y rate (which was 0.25% lower than x). I reached out Lender-1 to see if they would match (even they were advertising a lower rate that day) but was told since application is with underwriting, they cannot adjust the rate. I was advised that I can float down the rate only in the time period between underwriting approval and closing. So, I ended up submitting an application with Lender-2 and locked the lower rate with them. Right now, I have applications in underwriting at two lenders.

Questions:

• Should I keep the application active at both lenders? Lender-1 would be backup in case Lender-2 is unable to close (or delays the process)?

• What is expected to happen if I don't do anything? What's the protocol or nice thing to do?

While I understand loans may be unable to be modified once submitted to underwriting, what's stopping consumers from shopping around? Maybe it's unfair but isn't this part of process (capitalism)?

Thoughts?

[Dmody91]

I'm locked into a rate with Better.com but have been speaking to my local lender and I think they are going to match or beat the deal....problem is that I think Better might have done an appraisal already so I don't know if its too late to cancel it? Does anyone have any experience with this? Better.com waived the appraisal so I have not had to pay for anything at this point.

[BrandonBogle]

I'm locked into a rate with Better.com but have been speaking to my local lender and I think they are going to match or beat the deal....problem is that I think Better might have done an appraisal already so I don't know if its too late to cancel it? Does anyone have any experience with this? Better.com waived the appraisal so I have not had to pay for anything at this point.

Did they waive the need for the appraisal, or the cost? Basically, does your loan estimate list it at $0 or not list it at all?

[Dmody91]

I'm locked into a rate with Better.com but have been speaking to my local lender and I think they are going to match or beat the deal....problem is that I think Better might have done an appraisal already so I don't know if its too late to cancel it? Does anyone have any experience with this? Better.com waived the appraisal so I have not had to pay for anything at this point.

Did they waive the need for the appraisal, or the cost? Basically, does your loan estimate list it at $0 or not list it at all?

Right, its not listed at all. No mention of it in the loan estimate.

[frankandbeans]

Dear BHs, Need some guidance.

Last week, I shopped for mortgage and applied to Lender-1 at x% rate. They were able to lock the rate and submit the application to underwriting same day (I completed online application and submitted required docs). Couple days later, received a quote from Lender-2 at y rate (which was 0.25% lower than x). I reached out Lender-1 to see if they would match (even they were advertising a lower rate that day) but was told since application is with underwriting, they cannot adjust the rate. I was advised that I can float down the rate only in the time period between underwriting approval and closing. So, I ended up submitting an application with Lender-2 and locked the lower rate with them. Right now, I have applications in underwriting at two lenders.

Questions:

• Should I keep the application active at both lenders? Lender-1 would be backup in case Lender-2 is unable to close (or delays the process)?

• What is expected to happen if I don't do anything? What's the protocol or nice thing to do?

While I understand loans may be unable to be modified once submitted to underwriting, what's stopping consumers from shopping around? Maybe it's unfair but isn't this part of process (capitalism)?

Thoughts?

It's part of the process and as long as you give Lender 1 a fair chance to match/beat I don't think anyone will be surprised or upset. I would keep them both going until you are out of underwriting. Then you can give Lender 1 a last clear chance to match/best Lender 2. If they can't/won't, then you probably drop them at that point and ride it out with Lender 2.

[Cash is King]

Closed on my aimloan refi. Got funded today. I ranted about them up thread, but after that my wife sent a strongly worded letter to the CEO. He responded , apologized, and they took immediate action to remedy our problem. Two days after that email, they had a notary at our house closing (again). So, I would say they redeemed themselves. You can’t assure problems won’t ever happen, but when people do the right things when they do happen, it counts.

I saw your early rant and was surprised because we closed with AIM mid-March on a 20yr@3.00% no closing cost, appraisal waived, no escrow. The service level was outstanding! Good to know it ended well.

[9999]

Can anyone with Northpointe share how long it took for underwriting approval? I was told it typically takes 3 days and we're on day 10...

[frankandbeans]

Can anyone with Northpointe share how long it took for underwriting approval? I was told it typically takes 3 days and we're on day 10...

I posted my timeline above.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=289559&start=1150#p5230445

[investor2018]

Thanks for the advice. First time home owner. We bought the house in 2016 and 5/5 ARM is going to renew in Feb 2021. Hope 5 year Treasury Constant Maturity stays below 1% so we get the rates under 3% for next 5 years.

No problem. My 5/5 resets May 2022, but I’m going to close this money on a 2.625% 15-year instead (details on the past few pages of this same thread). Even at 2.875% (where I started the loan search), I would switch to a fixed rate. Once you get to 3%, that is definitely harder to stomach since now one is guaranteed to pay more in the short-term. PenFed generally is competitive To okay (they used to be phenomenal), but at the moment they’ve even dropped the 5/5 altogether from being originated for new loans.

I am little confused.. are you suggesting for refinancing now for 30 year fixed or wait for 5/5 ARM renewal?

[BrandonBogle]

Right, its not listed at all. No mention of it in the loan estimate.

If it isn’t listed at all, then that likely means they obtained a waiver to even needing an appraisal, so one never was done. Otherwise, they typically disclose the fee and collect the fee when you rate-lock to credit at closing. Thus, it is likely there is nothing sunk into the existing process.

I am little confused.. are you suggesting for refinancing now for 30 year fixed or wait for 5/5 ARM renewal?

In my case, I’m refinancing right now because I’m getting an even better rate. If I wasn’t getting a better rate, I’d still be willing to pay something to match the rate. When I started my refi, I was going to do a 2.875% with $1,415 closing costs so then I’d have the reassurance of a fixed rate. I’ve since found a better deal. I know you said you found a 3%, but what were the closing costs? Have you kept looking to see if you find a better deal? Northpointe is offering 2.75% and they aren’t the only competitive lender at the moment.

[mattshwink]

Certainly interesting times. Currently working with Keystone (locked 2.75/2.854% APR 30 yr).

First Mortgage Direct Quote 3% with 0 fees/points but no other details (I hate when they don't send me an APR upfront - makes it hard to compare).
Loan Depot also was quoting me 3.125% but I think it was almost $1,000 in fees (they made offer over the phone, opened a web portal with disclosures, credit score, etc, but no written details on the loan - again, ugh).

I locked with Keystone yesterday evening (Tuesday). Both FMD and Loan Depot came back to me today asking if I wanted to move forward. I told them the rate and APR I was quoted. Both told me they would get back to me. I'm skeptical they can beat what I have locked with Keystone, but I'm all for competition. It would have been better for them if they came stronger out of the gate (and sent me quotes in writing).

Everybody I have talked to recently says they can get this done without an appraisal. We do have recent comps in our community.
Details for anyone interested:
Current rate: 3.375, 30 year, 47 months in.
Value: $875,000 (Loan Depot came back at $900,000)
Mortgage Balance: $458,791
30 year locked: 2.750, 0.977 points (APR 2.854)
Points/Origination: $4,672
Credit Fee: $75
Flood Cert: $14
Title Insurance: $1,173
Settlement Fee: $450
Closing Letter: $35
Taxes/Prepaid/Escrow: $4,820
Total Cash to Close: $11,203

[Rey]

I just refinanced a 30yrs fixed @3.125% (no points) with appraisal waived for a total cost of $700. This was after getting a $1000 price match from better.com. Coming down from a rate of 3.75%, I feel pretty good about the deal. What do the BHs think?

Negotiations paid off, and I think I did good. Today locked in a 30yrs fixed refi with Loandepot @2.875% (no points) with appraisal waived off for a cost of $1900. Better.com matched price once but couldn't better loandepot's offer the second time.

[Absolute]

Hey everyone,

Would like some insight from the BH community on the below refinance proprosal.

Details of proposed loan:
Current rate: 4.366%, 30 year, 56 months in.
Credit Score: ~770 (middle score)
Value: $270,000
Mortgage Balance: $198,000
20 year locked: 3.25 (no points)
Lender Credit: -$400 (appraisal waived)
Origination: $1290
Title (Shoppable Fees): $1,910
Taxes/Prepaid/Escrow: $3,371
Total Closing Costs: $6,640
Total Cash to Close: $7,389

Costs seem higher than what I've seen from other posts. How about the below breakdown of title fees.

Title - Closing Protection Letter $75
Title - Courier Fee $70
Title - Document Storage Archive Copies $90
Title - Lender's Endorsements $100
Title - Lender's Title Insurance $550
Title - Municipal Search $70
Title - Notary Fee $25
Title - Recording Service Fee $50
Title - Release Prep Fee $75
Title - Settlement Fee $425
Title - Tideland Search $50
Title - Title Examination $100
Title - Title Search Abstract $100

This adds $10 to the monthly payment and shaves ~5 years where I can also start adding to principal monthly with flexibility. Any advice? Costs seem high as I mentioned. I understand the taxes/escrow/prepaid are just moving money around.

Cheers

[srqnole]

Longtime lurker here on the forums and gained lots of valuable advice over the past few months! Just wanted to share my current experience with a refinance. I have reached out to a number of lenders recommended on this thread (Northpoint, Lenderfi, Better.com as well as large banks, community banks and credit unions. I have found that the best offers for me have been with small community banks and credit unions. I am currently in the process of refinancing my 15 year mortgage at 3.625% to a 15 year mortgage at 2.375% with no points. Closing costs are a little higher than I would like, but seems like a fair deal overall. This is through a local credit union.

Congratulations! That's a awesome deal (lowest I have seen for 15 yr. personally). Would you mind sharing some details - type of loan (conventional, high balance, jumbo), amount (approx), state, name of the credit union (if you feel comfortable)?

Sure! This is for a conventional loan with a loan amount of $153k in Florida. The credit union is First Commerce Credit Union.

[Contango1025]

What do you guys think about this offer I just got from Loan Depot?

In our first year of a 30-Year fixed at 3.875%. We plan on staying here forever. House value is $840K, loan balance is $655K.

Loan Depot offered a 30-year fixed at 2.99% with $1.6K origination, $3.0K 3rd party. There are 2.5 points on that rate, they'll cover 1.5 and I would pay $7K for the other 1 point. Alternatively, I can do 3.25% with no points. It seems like if I pay to get 2.99% after three years I've covered my out of pocket expenses of ~$11.7K and taken ~$120K of interest off the loan. Any reason to not jump all over this? This is substantially lower than anything I've gotten over the last few weeks.

[BrandonBogle]

So I'm coming down the home stretch as I'm out of underwriting and awaiting my closing disclosures. I'm still able to switch my options if I so choose. With the numbers in play now that my title stuff is completed, I am looking at the following:

Code: Select all

Rate    Points   Breakeven*   Closing Costs^
------  ------   ----------   ----------------------
3.00%   -0.29%               -$1,688 (credit to me)
2.875%   0.18%               -$1,047 (credit to me)
2.75%    0.55%   56 months   -$  549 (credit to me)
2.625%   0.93%   59 months   -$   45 (credit to me)
2.5%     1.44%   68 months    $  648

* = Breakeven is from 2.875% (since 2.875% matches what I have at par for another lender)
^ = if after a promotional credit I receive after closing (not at closing)

While I know the conventional wisdom is to not pay points (especially if beyond a 2-3 year payback), I'm considering doing the 2.625%. Because of this promotional credit, all the options except for 2.5% end up with money coming back to me. Given my financial situation, even $1,688 coming back to me wouldn't really be used for anything, and I'd likely just make a principal reduction to my loan. With that in mind, using these funds to pay points and buy down the rate vs. a principal reduction would make sense. However, there is always the thought that if rates go down further, it might be worthwhile to refinance again with a low/no-cost loan. At that point, I could have just pocketed the money back to me if the refi is just around the corner.

What would you all choose to do? If it weren't for the promotional credit, it would be easy as another lender locked me in at 2.875% with 0 points and $1,295 in closing costs. With the promotional credit, so I do my own "point calculation" and consider the 2.625% as 0 points b/c of no cost to me? Or should I keep in mind the underlying numbers and keep to the usual thoughts of not paying points?

Your thoughts would be most welcome!

[BrandonBogle]

Hey everyone,

Would like some insight from the BH community on the below refinance proprosal.

Details of proposed loan:
Current rate: 4.366%, 30 year, 56 months in.
20 year locked: 3.25 (no points)
Lender Credit: -$400 (appraisal waived)
Origination: $1290
Title (Shoppable Fees): $1,910

Personally, I'm not a fan of origination fees. That said, $1,290 isn't unreasonably assuming it is the ONLY lender fee. Another way to look at it vs. an imaginary lender without lender fees is that you are paying a 0.65% point to get the 3.25% rate. I can't help but feel that a more competitive offer can be found, but they have indeed being flying left and rate the past few weeks.

How about the below breakdown of title fees.

Title - Closing Protection Letter $75
Title - Courier Fee $70
Title - Document Storage Archive Copies $90
Title - Lender's Endorsements $100
Title - Lender's Title Insurance $550
Title - Municipal Search $70
Title - Notary Fee $25
Title - Recording Service Fee $50
Title - Release Prep Fee $75
Title - Settlement Fee $425
Title - Tideland Search $50
Title - Title Examination $100
Title - Title Search Abstract $100

There are lots of "nickel and dime" items there. That said, you can shop the title services and you will hopefully find a firm that would charge less. For instance, $90 doc storage fee? A recording service fee + a courier fee? A title search + minimal search fee? All told though, again, $1,260 in fees (since $650 is the policy and endorsements) is again, not unreasonable. And this is an estimate that could potentially go down when all is said and done.

Personally, I would view this as a good deal, not a great deal. As a side note, have you gotten a feel for what you can find as a 30-year mortgage and just pay it ahead? 20-year loans sometimes are not priced competitively compared against 15 and 30 year loans. Just keep in mind what they say though about perfect being the enemy of good!

[mervinj7]

So I'm coming down the home stretch as I'm out of underwriting and awaiting my closing disclosures. I'm still able to switch my options if I so choose. With the numbers in play now that my title stuff is completed, I am looking at the following:

Code: Select all

Rate    Points   Breakeven*   Closing Costs^
------  ------   ----------   ----------------------
3.00%   -0.29%               -$1,688 (credit to me)
2.875%   0.18%               -$1,047 (credit to me)
2.75%    0.55%   56 months   -$  549 (credit to me)
2.625%   0.93%   59 months   -$   45 (credit to me)
2.5%     1.44%   68 months    $  648

* = Breakeven is from 2.875% (since 2.875% matches what I have at par for another lender)
^ = if after a promotional credit I receive after closing (not at closing)

While I know the conventional wisdom is to not pay points (especially if beyond a 2-3 year payback), I'm considering doing the 2.625%. Because of this promotional credit, all the options except for 2.5% end up with money coming back to me. Given my financial situation, even $1,688 coming back to me wouldn't really be used for anything, and I'd likely just make a principal reduction to my loan. With that in mind, using these funds to pay points and buy down the rate vs. a principal reduction would make sense. However, there is always the thought that if rates go down further, it might be worthwhile to refinance again with a low/no-cost loan. At that point, I could have just pocketed the money back to me if the refi is just around the corner.

What would you all choose to do? If it weren't for the promotional credit, it would be easy as another lender locked me in at 2.875% with 0 points and $1,295 in closing costs. With the promotional credit, so I do my own "point calculation" and consider the 2.625% as 0 points b/c of no cost to me? Or should I keep in mind the underlying numbers and keep to the usual thoughts of not paying points?

Your thoughts would be most welcome!

Don't overthink it. Take the closest interest rate to no cost. In your case, that's the 2.625%. When I look at points, I only look at effective points after all credits and discounts are accounted for. It's the only way to compare across different quotes. In the future, if you ever want to refinance again you would again compare against the best no cost refinance rate offered at the time.

[BrandonBogle]

Don't overthink it. Take the closest interest rate to no cost. In your case, that's the 2.625%. When I look at points, I only look at effective points after all credits and discounts are accounted for. It's the only way to compare across different quotes. In the future, if you ever want to refinance again you would again compare against the best no cost refinance rate offered at the time.

Thank you Mervin! That is what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure I wasn't out in left field. Your clarity as an outside party about all this has been most helpful, especially when I was inadvertently double-discounting point payback a few pages back. I will focus on effective cost to me and work from there.

[frankandbeans]

Don't overthink it. Take the closest interest rate to no cost. In your case, that's the 2.625%. When I look at points, I only look at effective points after all credits and discounts are accounted for. It's the only way to compare across different quotes. In the future, if you ever want to refinance again you would again compare against the best no cost refinance rate offered at the time.

Thank you Mervin! That is what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure I wasn't out in left field. Your clarity as an outside party about all this has been most helpful, especially when I was inadvertently double-discounting point payback a few pages back. I will focus on effective cost to me and work from there.

You can't go wrong either way, but just to provide an alternative viewpoint, I would probably be inclined to take 2.5 in these specific circumstances for two reasons: (1) the $700 cost delta between the two is quite low, and (2) at these rates, I would be more likely to bet that 2.5 will be the lowest rate I ever get, so I will be more likely to hold this mortgage for the duration of the note and therefore reap the benefit of the lower rate over the upfront costs. But definitely nothing wrong with the CW route and taking the 2.625 here.

[onyxlinkia]

Hi, need some advices on which refinance option to go with.

Balance of current mortgage is 387k, about 6.5 yrs into the original 30 yrs loan @3.75.

Got the following quotes:

30 yr
3.00% no cost
2.875% $1500
2.75% $2900

15 yr
2.753% no cost
2.625 $1000
2.5 $1900

Which option is better? I'm leaning towards 30 yrs 2.875% with $1500 cost for flexibility over 15 yrs. Should I choose this over 3.0% with no cost? Thanks.

[Absolute]

Hey everyone,

Would like some insight from the BH community on the below refinance proprosal.

Details of proposed loan:
Current rate: 4.366%, 30 year, 56 months in.
20 year locked: 3.25 (no points)
Lender Credit: -$400 (appraisal waived)
Origination: $1290
Title (Shoppable Fees): $1,910

Personally, I'm not a fan of origination fees. That said, $1,290 isn't unreasonably assuming it is the ONLY lender fee. Another way to look at it vs. an imaginary lender without lender fees is that you are paying a 0.65% point to get the 3.25% rate. I can't help but feel that a more competitive offer can be found, but they have indeed being flying left and rate the past few weeks.

How about the below breakdown of title fees.

Title - Closing Protection Letter $75
Title - Courier Fee $70
Title - Document Storage Archive Copies $90
Title - Lender's Endorsements $100
Title - Lender's Title Insurance $550
Title - Municipal Search $70
Title - Notary Fee $25
Title - Recording Service Fee $50
Title - Release Prep Fee $75
Title - Settlement Fee $425
Title - Tideland Search $50
Title - Title Examination $100
Title - Title Search Abstract $100

There are lots of "nickel and dime" items there. That said, you can shop the title services and you will hopefully find a firm that would charge less. For instance, $90 doc storage fee? A recording service fee + a courier fee? A title search + minimal search fee? All told though, again, $1,260 in fees (since $650 is the policy and endorsements) is again, not unreasonable. And this is an estimate that could potentially go down when all is said and done.

Personally, I would view this as a good deal, not a great deal. As a side note, have you gotten a feel for what you can find as a 30-year mortgage and just pay it ahead? 20-year loans sometimes are not priced competitively compared against 15 and 30 year loans. Just keep in mind what they say though about perfect being the enemy of good!

Thank you for your response! There are two title agencies down the road from here with great reviews on Google, I'll give them a look. I'll inquire about more lender credits. Thanks again.

[holycow007]

Better is incredibly fast..almost two weeks close from start to finish. Certainly very efficient.

[darkhorse]

Hi, need some advices on which refinance option to go with.

Balance of current mortgage is 387k, about 6.5 yrs into the original 30 yrs loan @3.75.

Got the following quotes:

30 yr
3.00% no cost
2.875% $1500
2.75% $2900

15 yr
2.753% no cost
2.625 $1000
2.5 $1900

Which option is better? I'm leaning towards 30 yrs 2.875% with $1500 cost for flexibility over 15 yrs. Should I choose this over 3.0% with no cost? Thanks.

Hi, if you plan to stay in home for foreseeable features, I would also choose 30 years 2.875