What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

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Independent George
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Independent George »

It's a moving target. I am projected to be at about 35% in 2020, but this is very much a recent change in behavior.

When I first started working, I invested about 10% of my gross income every year - hitting the $3k Roth IRA max on my $30k gross salary. Once I vested in a 401k, it went up to about 15%-20% (with the Roth limit no longer being a full 10% of my gross income). After the 2008 crash, I took a significant hit to my salary, and my contributions went back town to 12-15%.

I was back up to around 20% in 2016, then 25% in 2017, and then at least 30% from 2018 onwards. I'm actually feeling pretty secure about my retirement accounts these days, and will likely reduce contributions down to the 10-15% level in another year or two.
GraduateStudent
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by GraduateStudent »

Good Question.

For 2019,

Income was 192,757.
Federal Tax was 26,071.
State Tax was 8,804.

We maxed two 403b's and two Roth IRAs, which makes 50,000.

So we saved 25.9% gross and 31.7% net of taxes.
Life after grad school is great.
GraduateStudent
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by GraduateStudent »

birdog wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 pm This is a bit of an eye opener for many. While early retirement is not for everyone, achieving financial independence can be life changing on many levels and afford you the ability to drastically change your life based on your values.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01 ... etirement/


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This is my favorite thing in all of Personal Finance.
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Sic Vis Pacem
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Sic Vis Pacem »

25-30%, depending on bonuses for DW and I, not including her 401k match.
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Thrifty Femme
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Thrifty Femme »

47.25%
MrsRoos
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by MrsRoos »

32% of gross income saved , 23% invested.
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SnowBog
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by SnowBog »

simplesauce wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:35 pm I am completely floored by the responses! Wow.

Is it because the above Bogleheads make a very large income? (and what might that be? $150k? $300k? $600k?)
  • < 21 years old - 2-5% - "just enough" for the company match
  • Decided savings was a important so a large percent of every pay raise/promotion when to 401k
  • By 26 - closer to 15% - had maxed out "my" 401k (wife was contributing to a pension) - joint MAGI was around $90k for context
  • At 35 - probably closer to 25% - mostly from bonuses and employee stock grants that we saved
  • Two years ago - 50%+ - as I realized that "I'm replaceable" - and that I wanted to be in control of my future (aka FI)
Made some hard choices on spending vs. saving two years ago to make it to 50%. If you look at many of the FIRE folks - they primarily focus on spending less... I'm blessed to earn a good living, but needed to apply more of the "frugal" FIRE concepts to hit 50%.
Triple digit golfer
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Triple digit golfer »

GraduateStudent wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:43 pm
birdog wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 pm This is a bit of an eye opener for many. While early retirement is not for everyone, achieving financial independence can be life changing on many levels and afford you the ability to drastically change your life based on your values.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01 ... etirement/


Image
This is my favorite thing in all of Personal Finance.
I love the premise but don't like the assumptions of 5% real return and 4% withdrawal rate. Withdrawing 4% after retiring at age 35 seems like a bad idea.
smitcat
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by smitcat »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:28 pm
GraduateStudent wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:43 pm
birdog wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 pm This is a bit of an eye opener for many. While early retirement is not for everyone, achieving financial independence can be life changing on many levels and afford you the ability to drastically change your life based on your values.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01 ... etirement/


Image
This is my favorite thing in all of Personal Finance.
I love the premise but don't like the assumptions of 5% real return and 4% withdrawal rate. Withdrawing 4% after retiring at age 35 seems like a bad idea.
"I love the premise but don't like the assumptions of 5% real return and 4% withdrawal rate."
Agreed , plus...
I like the premise as well but it also does not take into account that savings need to apply against a retirement budget, taxes, and other potential incomes like SS.
tesuzuki2002
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

Last year 71%.... likely the same or more this year.
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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by MortgageOnBlack »

I'm 36 years old. As long as I'm fortunate to stay healthy and employed, my goal until retirement: 33% after-tax gets invested in my asset allocation (currently 84/16 (age in bonds minus 25).
I'm allowed to enjoy what is left, but if I don't use it (I'm naturally frugal) it gets thrown into Savings. For reference, I'm also not considered to be a high-earner (74k) compared to many on this forum. Although not considered a high earner, I do very well compared to my family and peers. I have no debt other than mortgage, no kids, and share housing expenses 50/50 with my fiancee. My biggest expenses have always been travel/dining out/beer/entertainment. I'm also a minimalist; I hate buying tangible things. I DIY as much stuff as possible. It also helps that my fiancee is on a similar page as me financially.
flaccidsteele
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by flaccidsteele »

simplesauce wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:46 pm My family puts 10% of each paycheck into our investment accounts. We are looking to increase this to 15% moving forward. How about all of you?
Almost zero 0%

I’m in my 40s. $5m+ NW. No debt

It’s not a fortune, but it compounds well enough

Back when I first tried to retire I got bored so I went back to work

I didn’t see the point in investing much of my pay. I spent it on some vacations and toys and stored some of it as cash

The stored cash deployed during the virus crisis worked out well
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat
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CyclingDuo
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by CyclingDuo »

simplesauce wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:35 pm
Jacobi wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:45 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:43 pm
lowndes wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:36 pm
simplesauce wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:46 pm My family puts 10% of each paycheck into our investment accounts. We are looking to increase this to 15% moving forward. How about all of you?
Same as you: 10-15% of base pay. I’m all over the map with what I do with my annual bonus.
I’ll bet you guy were not expecting the kind of answers your getting in this thread.
Yeah, this is a rather elite and high-earning group we're talking to on this forum.
I am completely floored by the responses! Wow.

Is it because the above Bogleheads make a very large income? (and what might that be? $150k? $300k? $600k?)

Or is it because they already have filled their savings accounts and emergency funds to comfortable levels, and therefore can lock away much of their income into the market for the future?

We can’t imagine investing so much of each paycheck at the moment. We have bills, expenses, mortgage, etc. Maybe once our savings gives us a year or two (?) of security. I really can’t believe the responses.
Don't get discouraged about what you think household incomes may or may not be for Bogleheads. You might be surprised just how vast and wide the salary range is for all members (many who never post). There have been threads regarding how to build wealth on household incomes below $100K. Here are a couple of threads from recent...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=269184
viewtopic.php?t=264011

We are a dual income household and our combined incomes were under $100K from 1985 - 2010 for a total of 26 IRS years. This is only our 10th year of having a combined household income over $100K and we are in our final years of working.

Is yours a dual income household?

In my previous post, I meant to include a link to an article that aptly describes a dual income household by calling it the Starve and Stack Method:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/try-t ... 2018-02-12

Whether the combined dual income is $60K, $75K, $80K, $90K, $100K, $120K, $150K, $200K, etc.... - the idea is to live off of one of the salaries and stack the rest into savings (and debt servicing). This can also be done in a single income earner household if the earner also has a side gig where the extra money from the side gig gets used as the stack.

Our Starve and Stack strategy worked the best during the years before we had children and is now working well once again as empty nesters. We were not able to do it quite as well on our salaries during the 20-25 years of having children at home where our scenario usually revolved around saving in the 15-20% range for ourselves, and the rest went into saving for our children's education.

The best way is to dive into your human capital income producing potential between the two of you, take an honest look at your budget, and develop a plan to be able to starve and stack that meets all of your needs. Plenty of others have been able to do it on sub $100K household incomes.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
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teen persuasion
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by teen persuasion »

CyclingDuo wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:10 am
simplesauce wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:35 pm
Jacobi wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:45 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:43 pm
lowndes wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:36 pm

Same as you: 10-15% of base pay. I’m all over the map with what I do with my annual bonus.
I’ll bet you guy were not expecting the kind of answers your getting in this thread.
Yeah, this is a rather elite and high-earning group we're talking to on this forum.
I am completely floored by the responses! Wow.

Is it because the above Bogleheads make a very large income? (and what might that be? $150k? $300k? $600k?)

Or is it because they already have filled their savings accounts and emergency funds to comfortable levels, and therefore can lock away much of their income into the market for the future?

We can’t imagine investing so much of each paycheck at the moment. We have bills, expenses, mortgage, etc. Maybe once our savings gives us a year or two (?) of security. I really can’t believe the responses.
Don't get discouraged about what you think household incomes may or may not be for Bogleheads. You might be surprised just how vast and wide the salary range is for all members (many who never post). There have been threads regarding how to build wealth on household incomes below $100K. Here are a couple of threads from recent...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=269184
viewtopic.php?t=264011

We are a dual income household and our combined incomes were under $100K from 1985 - 2010 for a total of 26 IRS years. This is only our 10th year of having a combined household income over $100K and we are in our final years of working.

Is yours a dual income household?

In my previous post, I meant to include a link to an article that aptly describes a dual income household by calling it the Starve and Stack Method:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/try-t ... 2018-02-12

Whether the combined dual income is $60K, $75K, $80K, $90K, $100K, $120K, $150K, $200K, etc.... - the idea is to live off of one of the salaries and stack the rest into savings (and debt servicing). This can also be done in a single income earner household if the earner also has a side gig where the extra money from the side gig gets used as the stack.


Our Starve and Stack strategy worked the best during the years before we had children and is now working well once again as empty nesters. We were not able to do it quite as well on our salaries during the 20-25 years of having children at home where our scenario usually revolved around saving in the 15-20% range for ourselves, and the rest went into saving for our children's education.

The best way is to dive into your human capital income producing potential between the two of you, take an honest look at your budget, and develop a plan to be able to starve and stack that meets all of your needs. Plenty of others have been able to do it on sub $100K household incomes.

CyclingDuo
Thanks for the starve and stack link.

Reading it, I realized we did a similar process. Even though I was a SAHM for nearly 20 years until the youngest was in school (no second income), my "side income" was our tax refunds. The EITC and CTC were either created and/or expanded as our family was growing, so we had gradually growing refunds. With time on my hands, I delved into how the credits worked and a little dumb luck showed me how to try to maximize them. We also had an ugly 9.75% mortgage, which I wanted gone ASAP. I wrote out an amortization schedule on the back of an envelope, so I could see exactly how much a lump sum prepayment would save us in future payments avoided. So I began using the refunds to lump sum prepay the mortgage. Increasing 401k contributions decreased both w2 wages and AGI, so they increased federal EITC, which increased state EITC, on top of decreased taxes, for even larger refunds, which further reduced the mortgage balance.

We paid off the mortgage more than 15 years early, so then shifted the refunds to funding Roth IRAs for both of us, and finally could max DH's 401k fully.

About that time I began working very part-time, slowly increasing income over years, we added an HSA, hit 50 and higher catchup contribution limits, and I *finally* got access to a retirement plan in my name (a SIMPLE IRA, but something). And the kids are leaving the nest, reducing refundable credits gradually.
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marti038
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by marti038 »

15% of gross is our minimum. Sometime we do a little more depending on the year, although this has been more challenging since we had kids. We have stuck to the 15% rule since we started investing shortly after we were married in 2006. I'm 38, she's 36 and we're doing very well compared to our peers in terms of net worth. Our income is less than $200k/year.

With all of that said, I'm always looking to improve this amount, but I don't beat myself up as long as we're over 15%.
i<3Investing
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by i<3Investing »

25% pre tax, 35% post tax.

We crunched the numbers to figure out our spending rate so we could figure out when we could retire early. Added bonus is we were able to back into our savings rate.

This is pure savings, not Principal reduction on homes which i guess is a form of savings as well.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by CyclingDuo »

teen persuasion wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:10 am Thanks for the starve and stack link.

Reading it, I realized we did a similar process. Even though I was a SAHM for nearly 20 years until the youngest was in school (no second income), my "side income" was our tax refunds. The EITC and CTC were either created and/or expanded as our family was growing, so we had gradually growing refunds. With time on my hands, I delved into how the credits worked and a little dumb luck showed me how to try to maximize them. We also had an ugly 9.75% mortgage, which I wanted gone ASAP. I wrote out an amortization schedule on the back of an envelope, so I could see exactly how much a lump sum prepayment would save us in future payments avoided. So I began using the refunds to lump sum prepay the mortgage. Increasing 401k contributions decreased both w2 wages and AGI, so they increased federal EITC, which increased state EITC, on top of decreased taxes, for even larger refunds, which further reduced the mortgage balance.

We paid off the mortgage more than 15 years early, so then shifted the refunds to funding Roth IRAs for both of us, and finally could max DH's 401k fully.

About that time I began working very part-time, slowly increasing income over years, we added an HSA, hit 50 and higher catchup contribution limits, and I *finally* got access to a retirement plan in my name (a SIMPLE IRA, but something). And the kids are leaving the nest, reducing refundable credits gradually.
Well played! Kudos on being mortgage free as well!!! :beer

All the best with continued progress as the nest empties out.

Although the catchy title of Starve and Stack simply means living below your means (LBYM) - it never hurts to hear a new name attached to it that sounds like a twist on a time honored strategy such as LBYM.

According to Pew Research, the percentage of dual income households in the US rose from 25% in 1960 to 60% in 2015. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics says it had climbed to 61.1% by 2017. At least for that percentage of the US household population (which is now the majority), the simple concept of attempting to budget out the income by living on one salary and saving the other is an available strategy. This is, of course, provided that wise consumerism is practiced along with avoiding buying more house or rent than one can afford, and keeping transportation and food costs low. I think we can all account how many times we have seen threads or read posts that make us cringe when we see how much is going to housing, transportation and food which is preventing savings, let alone starve and stack from being able to take place. Cue KlangFool and his neighborhood. :mrgreen:

Challenges of day care and being able to remain a dual income household through the child rearing years is an obstacle for many. That's a tough one to make cost effective depending on one's income, location, cost of day care in one's area, etc... . We had 7 years as a couple that included full-time dual income where we starved and stacked before the first child was born which gave us a great start. We used day care for two years in the US and at least 1/2 days for two years in Europe, then dropped to one income for a few years while the children grew to school age, then became dual income again for a segment of years, then dropped back to one income for a few years due to an international move back to the US. Out of the 33 years of being together to date, about 9-10 of those years were single income only where far less stacking was accomplished.

In terms of a dual income household and living on one salary as a strategy, it also prepares one for times such as we have just entered where layoffs, terminations, and unemployment rises. Provided, of course, only one member of the dual income household loses their job things should be fine for those who are used to living on one salary and may have to pull back on the stacking for a period of time. For those who have not stacked, have not built up an emergency fund, are carrying high debt, and perhaps both incomes are lost - it's going to be a very tough row to hoe going forward.

CyclingDuo
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Planner01
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Planner01 »

55% gross, 71% net income.
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Bogle1984
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Bogle1984 »

GraduateStudent wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:43 pm
birdog wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 pm This is a bit of an eye opener for many. While early retirement is not for everyone, achieving financial independence can be life changing on many levels and afford you the ability to drastically change your life based on your values.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01 ... etirement/


Image
This is my favorite thing in all of Personal Finance.
Could be even less if you move to a country with lower cost of living.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by TheTimeLord »

Roughly 40% of gross, but it probably varies between 35%-45%.
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Starfish
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Starfish »

dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:55 pm The “for many” you speak of are highly compensated professionals (of which I am also). For most people, bare bones basic necessities eat up their entire income. Saving money isn’t a possibility let alone saving more than half their income.
This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
iamlucky13
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by iamlucky13 »

This type of thread tends to show many Bogleheads do well either by their income, or by controlling their expenses, or both. I'm certain far more Bogleheads have modest savings rates than tend to chime in.

Regardless, Bogleheads is far from typical. You are doing better than most households by saving 10%, and if you can reach your goal of 15%, then even better.

I've increaseed over time to 17% of gross income as a combination of my 401k contribution and a good employer match. Depending on how my taxable savings do each year, I also try to make a Roth IRA contribuition. This year it looks I can do 4%.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by TheTimeLord »

iamlucky13 wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:57 pm This type of thread tends to show many Bogleheads do well either by their income, or by controlling their expenses, or both. I'm certain far more Bogleheads have modest savings rates than tend to chime in.

Regardless, Bogleheads is far from typical. You are doing better than most households by saving 10%, and if you can reach your goal of 15%, then even better.

I've increaseed over time to 17% of gross income as a combination of my 401k contribution and a good employer match. Depending on how my taxable savings do each year, I also try to make a Roth IRA contribuition. This year it looks I can do 4%.
Most of my life my savings rate was way lower than it is today.
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rivendell
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by rivendell »

I invest at least 20% of net income after taxes. I got at late start but years of sticking with this plan have proven effective.
I appreciate how fortunate I am to be able to do this. I have friends and family that can barely make ends meet every month; sometimes this is due to circumstances beyond their control and sometimes not.
“On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.” | ― Chuck Palahniuk
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by iamlucky13 »

TheTimeLord wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:50 pm
iamlucky13 wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:57 pm This type of thread tends to show many Bogleheads do well either by their income, or by controlling their expenses, or both. I'm certain far more Bogleheads have modest savings rates than tend to chime in.

Regardless, Bogleheads is far from typical. You are doing better than most households by saving 10%, and if you can reach your goal of 15%, then even better.

I've increaseed over time to 17% of gross income as a combination of my 401k contribution and a good employer match. Depending on how my taxable savings do each year, I also try to make a Roth IRA contribuition. This year it looks I can do 4%.
Most of my life my savings rate was way lower than it is today.
Thanks for mentioning that. I won't presume your savings rate history, but I'm sure many people with high savings rates have generally had a long upward trajectory for their income, but passed their peak expenses in life. I wouldn't expect many people to achieve a high savings rate early in their career, especially around the age many of us buy our first homes, have kids, etc.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by TheTimeLord »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:56 am
TheTimeLord wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:50 pm
iamlucky13 wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:57 pm This type of thread tends to show many Bogleheads do well either by their income, or by controlling their expenses, or both. I'm certain far more Bogleheads have modest savings rates than tend to chime in.

Regardless, Bogleheads is far from typical. You are doing better than most households by saving 10%, and if you can reach your goal of 15%, then even better.

I've increaseed over time to 17% of gross income as a combination of my 401k contribution and a good employer match. Depending on how my taxable savings do each year, I also try to make a Roth IRA contribuition. This year it looks I can do 4%.
Most of my life my savings rate was way lower than it is today.
Thanks for mentioning that. I won't presume your savings rate history, but I'm sure many people with high savings rates have generally had a long upward trajectory for their income, but passed their peak expenses in life. I wouldn't expect many people to achieve a high savings rate early in their career, especially around the age many of us buy our first homes, have kids, etc.
I don't have the history but I would guess throughout my 20s and 30s I was mainly try to max out my 401K. I do remember starting somewhere in my 30s trying to start directing 1% of each raise to savings. That initially went to my emergency fund until I reached 18 months of expenses.
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smitcat
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by smitcat »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:56 am
TheTimeLord wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:50 pm
iamlucky13 wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:57 pm This type of thread tends to show many Bogleheads do well either by their income, or by controlling their expenses, or both. I'm certain far more Bogleheads have modest savings rates than tend to chime in.

Regardless, Bogleheads is far from typical. You are doing better than most households by saving 10%, and if you can reach your goal of 15%, then even better.

I've increaseed over time to 17% of gross income as a combination of my 401k contribution and a good employer match. Depending on how my taxable savings do each year, I also try to make a Roth IRA contribuition. This year it looks I can do 4%.
Most of my life my savings rate was way lower than it is today.
Thanks for mentioning that. I won't presume your savings rate history, but I'm sure many people with high savings rates have generally had a long upward trajectory for their income, but passed their peak expenses in life. I wouldn't expect many people to achieve a high savings rate early in their career, especially around the age many of us buy our first homes, have kids, etc.
Yes exactly - your savings rate on gross income can be fairly large when you are fairly young due to many reasons... less tax, no mortgage, no kids, etc.
If both income and those expenses rise over time you end up with a lower savings rate vs gross income.
The key is not your savings rate vs income but your savings rate vs your future needs (retirement and/or FI expenses).
Future needs - any fixed incomes (SS/pension/etc) = need from portfolio
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birdog
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by birdog »

My first year out of college I lived very frugally. I only grossed $17K that year (1997) but my savings rate of take-home pay was still a respectable 20%. Now I have much higher expenses (house, family, etc) and am less frugal but my income is higher so my current savings rate is 65%.
alfaspider
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by alfaspider »

Asking on a "per paycheck" basis can be a bit complicated for those whose income is not even throughout the year. Usually, all of my bonus an annual stock compensation is invested, but some paychecks just see a 7% 401k contribution. There's also a question of how to classify pension contributions (it's additions to a retirement account and based on a percentage of pay, but it's not part of my paycheck).

On an annual basis, the goal is to make savings equal expenses (50% savings rate). That happened most years, but not last year when we bought and remodeled a house. We've been very privileged to be able to do it, and it's more of a product of having two careers each sufficient to support a nice lifestyle independently than any great saving strategy.
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by TheOscarGuy »

simplesauce wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:46 pm My family puts 10% of each paycheck into our investment accounts. We are looking to increase this to 15% moving forward. How about all of you?
25-33%.
We have increased the percentage over the years and are quite comfortable where we are for now.
dbadalam
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by dbadalam »

Starfish wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:55 pm The “for many” you speak of are highly compensated professionals (of which I am also). For most people, bare bones basic necessities eat up their entire income. Saving money isn’t a possibility let alone saving more than half their income.
This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
OMG, this is not mentality this is reality! You must think you live in a different world than I.
Starfish
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Starfish »

dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am
Starfish wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:55 pm The “for many” you speak of are highly compensated professionals (of which I am also). For most people, bare bones basic necessities eat up their entire income. Saving money isn’t a possibility let alone saving more than half their income.
This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
OMG, this is not mentality this is reality! You must think you live in a different world than I.

It is definitely not reality, just an excuse.
As long as you can survive with 10-20% less income it means you can save it. As long as there are people who live with 10% of your income on earth, it's ridiculous to pretend that "this is reality".
The world I live in ... I lived on tens of $ a month (as student), 200$/month, and 1k$ a month (net) in one of top 3 most expensive counties in US. I have always saved money.
dbadalam
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by dbadalam »

Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:09 pm
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am
Starfish wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:55 pm The “for many” you speak of are highly compensated professionals (of which I am also). For most people, bare bones basic necessities eat up their entire income. Saving money isn’t a possibility let alone saving more than half their income.
This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
OMG, this is not mentality this is reality! You must think you live in a different world than I.

It is definitely not reality, just an excuse.
As long as you can survive with 10-20% less income it means you can save it. As long as there are people who live with 10% of your income on earth, it's ridiculous to pretend that "this is reality".
The world I live in ... I lived on tens of $ a month (as student), 200$/month, and 1k$ a month (net) in one of top 3 most expensive counties in US. I have always saved money.
I so disagree with you. My income is irrelevant. So is yours. There are people who can’t survive with 10 or 20% less income . Why, because their income doesn’t even cover medical expenses , let alone food. There’s a certain mentality of people who grew up in privileged households that simply assumes everyone lives like them. I grew up in a household that was well into the top 20% of society , but I’m aware that the bottom 20% exists, and how they survive.
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Stef
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Stef »

Just because your fridge is always full it doesn't mean that there is no world hunger.
Starfish
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Starfish »

dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:25 pm
Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:09 pm
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am
Starfish wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:55 pm The “for many” you speak of are highly compensated professionals (of which I am also). For most people, bare bones basic necessities eat up their entire income. Saving money isn’t a possibility let alone saving more than half their income.
This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
OMG, this is not mentality this is reality! You must think you live in a different world than I.

It is definitely not reality, just an excuse.
As long as you can survive with 10-20% less income it means you can save it. As long as there are people who live with 10% of your income on earth, it's ridiculous to pretend that "this is reality".
The world I live in ... I lived on tens of $ a month (as student), 200$/month, and 1k$ a month (net) in one of top 3 most expensive counties in US. I have always saved money.
I so disagree with you. My income is irrelevant. So is yours. There are people who can’t survive with 10 or 20% less income . Why, because their income doesn’t even cover medical expenses , let alone food. There’s a certain mentality of people who grew up in privileged households that simply assumes everyone lives like them. I grew up in a household that was well into the top 20% of society , but I’m aware that the bottom 20% exists, and how they survive.
So it's "most people" or bottom 20%?
The history of my income is very relevant because you implied that I am privileged. I assure you I wasn't, at least from the material point of view.
While I had a great life, most of it I was much poorer than the average/median person in US. And I am absolutely sure for every person living with 100$ you can find another one alive and well living with 80$. Heck, probably even the person making 100$ was making only 80 several years ago.

For vast majority of people who "cannot save" it's a expense issue not an income issue.
Stef wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:24 am Just because your fridge is always full it doesn't mean that there is no world hunger.
US has obesity, not hunger. And no, it's not the same.
dbadalam
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by dbadalam »

Starfish wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:35 am
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:25 pm
Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:09 pm
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am
Starfish wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm

This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
OMG, this is not mentality this is reality! You must think you live in a different world than I.

It is definitely not reality, just an excuse.
As long as you can survive with 10-20% less income it means you can save it. As long as there are people who live with 10% of your income on earth, it's ridiculous to pretend that "this is reality".
The world I live in ... I lived on tens of $ a month (as student), 200$/month, and 1k$ a month (net) in one of top 3 most expensive counties in US. I have always saved money.
I so disagree with you. My income is irrelevant. So is yours. There are people who can’t survive with 10 or 20% less income . Why, because their income doesn’t even cover medical expenses , let alone food. There’s a certain mentality of people who grew up in privileged households that simply assumes everyone lives like them. I grew up in a household that was well into the top 20% of society , but I’m aware that the bottom 20% exists, and how they survive.
So it's "most people" or bottom 20%?
The history of my income is very relevant because you implied that I am privileged. I assure you I wasn't, at least from the material point of view.
While I had a great life, most of it I was much poorer than the average/median person in US. And I am absolutely sure for every person living with 100$ you can find another one alive and well living with 80$. Heck, probably even the person making 100$ was making only 80 several years ago.

For vast majority of people who "cannot save" it's a expense issue not an income issue.
Stef wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:24 am Just because your fridge is always full it doesn't mean that there is no world hunger.
US has obesity, not hunger. And no, it's not the same.
No, I did not imply...you inferred. Don't make this about you, the discussion is about people who don't make enough to live on and they do die early because of it. If you need to view it as an "expense" issue, then it is because "expenses" for basic necessities exceed income. The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%. I know I can't change a persons belief because it based on emotion. I learned that growing up in the states. So we are going to continue to disagree.
Last edited by dbadalam on Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Independent George
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Independent George »

dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 amI know I can't change a persons belief because it based on bigotry, faith and emotion. I learned that growing up in the states. So we are going to continue to disagree.
The fact that you immediately call him a bigot ensures is what ensures you will not changes anyone belief.
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birdog
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by birdog »

dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 am I know I can't change a persons belief because it based on bigotry, faith and emotion. I learned that growing up in the states. So we are going to continue to disagree.
I don't like it when people do this. If you disagree with me it's because you are... (insert derogatory term). It's nothing but name calling and isn't helpful at all. Quite the opposite.
Starfish
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Starfish »

dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 am No, I did not imply...you inferred. Don't make this about you, the discussion is about people who don't make enough to live on and they do die early because of it.
You keep changing the target. First time was "most people". Second time was bottom 20%. Now is people who don't make enough to live. What is it then?


If you need to view it as an "expense" issue, then it is because "expenses" for basic necessities exceed income. The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.




I realize this but before starting to shift the discussion towards more niche personal tragedies, you wrote "most people". Most people have a lot of non-essential expenses. Just look around, there is an entire economy built on these, from nail salons to boat dealerships. There is plenty of fat to cut to increase savings a little.
dbadalam
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by dbadalam »

Starfish wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:24 am
dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 am No, I did not imply...you inferred. Don't make this about you, the discussion is about people who don't make enough to live on and they do die early because of it.
You keep changing the target. First time was "most people". Second time was bottom 20%. Now is people who don't make enough to live. What is it then?


If you need to view it as an "expense" issue, then it is because "expenses" for basic necessities exceed income. The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.




I realize this but before starting to shift the discussion towards more niche personal tragedies, you wrote "most people". Most people have a lot of non-essential expenses. Just look around, there is an entire economy built on these, from nail salons to boat dealerships. There is plenty of fat to cut to increase savings a little.
It’s all of it. The bottom 20% are a subset of the bottom 51% (most people). Those who don’t make enough to live are are a subset of the bottom 51% as well. No trickery here. Look, I know there are some people wasting money in nail salons as you say, and maybe some of them are in the bottom half. Im saying that an absolute such “everyone” is wasting money instead of saving strikes me as extremely insensitive. You did use the absolute of “everybody” and are complaining about my use of “most”. If you can’t dial the absolute back just a little, I’m at a loss for any common ground.

Personally, I save over 60% of my income and saving is just part of my nature. So I wouldn’t need a lecture on saving. We clearly have a different mentality regarding the world around us, and that’s fine.
index2max
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by index2max »

15% of paycheck to 401(k).

Max out HSA (over first few paychecks) and Roth IRA (front-loaded 1st trading day of each year) too.
Blender
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Blender »

dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.
A single medical expense could wipe out my entire lifetime of earnings and I make and have saved a decent amount.
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am I know I can't change a persons belief because it based on bigotry, faith and emotion. I learned that growing up in the states. So we are going to continue to disagree.
I would humbly request that you refrain from inferring that people here are bigots or have misguided faith simply because you do not agree with them, that is out of line.
dbadalam
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by dbadalam »

Blender wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:22 pm
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.
A single medical expense could wipe out my entire lifetime of earnings and I make and have saved a decent amount.
dbadalam wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 am I know I can't change a persons belief because it based on emotion. I learned that growing up in the states. So we are going to continue to disagree.
I would humbly request that you refrain from inferring that people here are bigots or have misguided faith simply because you do not agree with them, that is out of line.
I can’t infer, you mean imply. But your point is taken, I intended it in a general sense, but it doesn’t matter. I’ll edit original post.
Last edited by dbadalam on Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
arsenalfan
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by arsenalfan »

You'll drive yourself crazy comparing.
IowaFarmWife
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by IowaFarmWife »

I am investing 10% at this time, and like you, I would like to increase this as much as possible.
“The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it in your back pocket.” —Will Rogers
reln
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by reln »

Starfish wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm
dbadalam wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:55 pm The “for many” you speak of are highly compensated professionals (of which I am also). For most people, bare bones basic necessities eat up their entire income. Saving money isn’t a possibility let alone saving more than half their income.
This is the wrong mentality. Pretty much everybody can save 10-20%, regardless of income.
The idea that they "cannot save" just damages their future.
Agreed. Even if you only earn $8 an hour, you can save 50% of your income.
Starfish
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Starfish »

dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:57 pm
Starfish wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:24 am
dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 am No, I did not imply...you inferred. Don't make this about you, the discussion is about people who don't make enough to live on and they do die early because of it.
You keep changing the target. First time was "most people". Second time was bottom 20%. Now is people who don't make enough to live. What is it then?


If you need to view it as an "expense" issue, then it is because "expenses" for basic necessities exceed income. The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.




I realize this but before starting to shift the discussion towards more niche personal tragedies, you wrote "most people". Most people have a lot of non-essential expenses. Just look around, there is an entire economy built on these, from nail salons to boat dealerships. There is plenty of fat to cut to increase savings a little.
It’s all of it. The bottom 20% are a subset of the bottom 51% (most people). Those who don’t make enough to live are are a subset of the bottom 51% as well. No trickery here. Look, I know there are some people wasting money in nail salons as you say, and maybe some of them are in the bottom half. Im saying that an absolute such “everyone” is wasting money instead of saving strikes me as extremely insensitive. You did use the absolute of “everybody” and are complaining about my use of “most”. If you can’t dial the absolute back just a little, I’m at a loss for any common ground.

Personally, I save over 60% of my income and saving is just part of my nature. So I wouldn’t need a lecture on saving. We clearly have a different mentality regarding the world around us, and that’s fine.
Yes, I wrote "pretty much everyone" which leaves plenty of room for exceptions.
I stand by my opinion. If I make $1297.27 it's impossible to have essential expenses in precisely the same amount. Unless it's not a coincidence, but a self adaptive behavior.
Anyway it was not my intention to discuss the bottom 20%.
The bottom 20% are a subset of the bottom 51% (most people).
And the top 1% are a subset of the population, can I say that most people are rich?
dbadalam
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by dbadalam »

Starfish wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:41 pm
dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:57 pm
Starfish wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:24 am
dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 am No, I did not imply...you inferred. Don't make this about you, the discussion is about people who don't make enough to live on and they do die early because of it.
You keep changing the target. First time was "most people". Second time was bottom 20%. Now is people who don't make enough to live. What is it then?


If you need to view it as an "expense" issue, then it is because "expenses" for basic necessities exceed income. The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.




I realize this but before starting to shift the discussion towards more niche personal tragedies, you wrote "most people". Most people have a lot of non-essential expenses. Just look around, there is an entire economy built on these, from nail salons to boat dealerships. There is plenty of fat to cut to increase savings a little.
It’s all of it. The bottom 20% are a subset of the bottom 51% (most people). Those who don’t make enough to live are are a subset of the bottom 51% as well. No trickery here. Look, I know there are some people wasting money in nail salons as you say, and maybe some of them are in the bottom half. Im saying that an absolute such “everyone” is wasting money instead of saving strikes me as extremely insensitive. You did use the absolute of “everybody” and are complaining about my use of “most”. If you can’t dial the absolute back just a little, I’m at a loss for any common ground.

Personally, I save over 60% of my income and saving is just part of my nature. So I wouldn’t need a lecture on saving. We clearly have a different mentality regarding the world around us, and that’s fine.
Yes, I wrote "pretty much everyone" which leaves plenty of room for exceptions.
I stand by my opinion. If I make $1297.27 it's impossible to have essential expenses in precisely the same amount. Unless it's not a coincidence, but a self adaptive behavior.
Anyway it was not my intention to discuss the bottom 20%.
The bottom 20% are a subset of the bottom 51% (most people).
And the top 1% are a subset of the population, can I say that most people are rich?
Yes the top 1% are a subset of a population, Certainly not the population I was discussing.

You can say that, The real question is whether or not you would be correct. First you have to define rich. Second you have to have an understanding of the needs and circumstances relevant as they pertain to the population.

You also use the phrase “all incomes” which doesn’t leave any room.
smitcat
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by smitcat »

dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:57 pm
Starfish wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:24 am
dbadalam wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:25 am No, I did not imply...you inferred. Don't make this about you, the discussion is about people who don't make enough to live on and they do die early because of it.
You keep changing the target. First time was "most people". Second time was bottom 20%. Now is people who don't make enough to live. What is it then?


If you need to view it as an "expense" issue, then it is because "expenses" for basic necessities exceed income. The disagreement is you believe it is their own fault and not a function of basic expenses being far greater than incomes. You don't realize a single medical expense can wipe out an entire lifetime of earnings even if you saved 100%.




I realize this but before starting to shift the discussion towards more niche personal tragedies, you wrote "most people". Most people have a lot of non-essential expenses. Just look around, there is an entire economy built on these, from nail salons to boat dealerships. There is plenty of fat to cut to increase savings a little.
It’s all of it. The bottom 20% are a subset of the bottom 51% (most people). Those who don’t make enough to live are are a subset of the bottom 51% as well. No trickery here. Look, I know there are some people wasting money in nail salons as you say, and maybe some of them are in the bottom half. Im saying that an absolute such “everyone” is wasting money instead of saving strikes me as extremely insensitive. You did use the absolute of “everybody” and are complaining about my use of “most”. If you can’t dial the absolute back just a little, I’m at a loss for any common ground.

Personally, I save over 60% of my income and saving is just part of my nature. So I wouldn’t need a lecture on saving. We clearly have a different mentality regarding the world around us, and that’s fine.
"Personally, I save over 60% of my income and saving is just part of my nature. So I wouldn’t need a lecture on saving. We clearly have a different mentality regarding the world around us, and that’s fine."
But your SO does not follow your lead - what is the savings rate when you combine income and savings? What is your family savings rate?
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: What percentage of your paycheck do you invest?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

Right now, for the first time in our adult lives, my wide and I are investing nothing from our earned income since the governor of our state declared we close our businesses, thus having earned income of $0.
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