College in fall

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Calhoon
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College in fall

Post by Calhoon » Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:55 am

My daughter is graduating from high school this June and is planning on starting college this coming fall a state over.

I know that our state universities have sent students home where they're taking classes remotely online.

Sounds like the best guess at this point is that the virus may or may not wane in the summer months but will most likely rebound in the normal flu season.

Are plans changing for kids going to college next fall? Seems like a lot of money to spend if my daughter is going to wind up taking classes from my basement.

livesoft
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Re: College in fall

Post by livesoft » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:06 am

Fall semester payments are generally not due until a week before classes start (even after that late payment is accepted), but perhaps a deposit is needed for choice living conditions. I would ask this same question at the beginning of August and not worry about it now.
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Megamill
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Re: College in fall

Post by Megamill » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:14 am

DS was awarded significant merit scholarships to a small, private college and I'm wondering if the scholarships will still be there with all this talk about projected enrollments to decline, endowments to drop, etc. Any other parents of HS seniors concerned about this?

Jack FFR1846
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Re: College in fall

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:31 am

I have a little different perspective, but it might help. Both my kids are in college. Both colleges delayed the restart date for post break, then both delayed some more, then went to all online. DS#1 is in his last course, which is a humanities where class participation is expected. The class will take place on zoom. In addition, his expensive private college has given students the choice to go to pass/fail grading. DS has a job lined up and has calculate that anything less than an A will bring his GPA down. Pass/fail does not figure into GPA at his school as their system does not record a fail. It simply shows up as never having taken the class. The motivation for this is to not hold students from taking more challenging courses for fear of tanking their GPA. The system has been in place since 1969 and was in place when I went to the same school. I did indeed try very challenging courses.

DS#2 is in community college. All of his courses will be online. We have not heard anything about grading changes. He's focused on his GPA as he has a tutoring job lined up at the school with the requirement of being over a certain GPA. If they go to pass/fail where a fail doesn't affect his GPA, that would reduce his stress a lot.
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Valuethinker
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Re: College in fall

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:20 am

Calhoon wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:55 am
My daughter is graduating from high school this June and is planning on starting college this coming fall a state over.

I know that our state universities have sent students home where they're taking classes remotely online.

Sounds like the best guess at this point is that the virus may or may not wane in the summer months but will most likely rebound in the normal flu season.

Are plans changing for kids going to college next fall? Seems like a lot of money to spend if my daughter is going to wind up taking classes from my basement.
When I began college in the early 1980s the youth unemployment rate (under 25s) was the highest ever recorded. Even higher than the 2008 9 recession I believe. The final pop of the Baby Boom hitting the market at once coupled w 21% interest rates.

So I had no alternative. It was very hard getting even a summer job. Friends of mine who did have jobs like washing library shelves or mowing grass did so because their fathers were school principals etc.

This Fall is likely to be as bad. Every job will be fiercely competed for by the unemployed whose extended benefits will have run out.

So that's point 1. What reasonable alternatives does she have? If it is relevant work or skills developing work (leadership, emotional intelligence etc) then fine. Working for a year before college is no bad thing. Working at any job will teach them something but a junky job is probably not worth it.

Point 2. Many of my friends parents had attended university alongside returning veterans. Classes were doubled or tripled up. Labs done in shifts 8 to 4, 4 to midnight. Etc. This was not optimal.

We take the cards we are dealt. If your daughter can function academically in an online setting then great. If not she should not attend university this year.

A warning which I think you know. This crisis is very unlikely to be over before 2021. If then.

protagonist
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Re: College in fall

Post by protagonist » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:31 am

Just an idea (I don't know if this would work but others could chime in)....

Assuming your child was accepted in a $60K/year school....when August comes and it seems like they are still only offering online education at full price, ask to defer enrollment for a year and have your child attend community college online for the first year. If they take a full challenging curriculum they should hopefully be able to transfer the credits to the private university and you will have saved the bulk of the $60K. The online education would probably not be much (if at all) inferior .... they would just be taking freshman core courses.

New Providence
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Re: College in fall

Post by New Providence » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am

College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.

tibbitts
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Re: College in fall

Post by tibbitts » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:41 am

protagonist wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:31 am
Just an idea (I don't know if this would work but others could chime in)....

Assuming your child was accepted in a $60K/year school....when August comes and it seems like they are still only offering online education at full price, ask to defer enrollment for a year and have your child attend community college online for the first year. If they take a full challenging curriculum they should hopefully be able to transfer the credits to the private university and you will have saved the bulk of the $60K. The online education would probably not be much (if at all) inferior .... they would just be taking freshman core courses.
It would be unlikely to be able to transfer credits unless agreed to and approved in advance by the private university. So it's not something you can do and assume it will end well, if attending the original university.

protagonist
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Re: College in fall

Post by protagonist » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:55 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:41 am
protagonist wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:31 am
Just an idea (I don't know if this would work but others could chime in)....

Assuming your child was accepted in a $60K/year school....when August comes and it seems like they are still only offering online education at full price, ask to defer enrollment for a year and have your child attend community college online for the first year. If they take a full challenging curriculum they should hopefully be able to transfer the credits to the private university and you will have saved the bulk of the $60K. The online education would probably not be much (if at all) inferior .... they would just be taking freshman core courses.
It would be unlikely to be able to transfer credits unless agreed to and approved in advance by the private university. So it's not something you can do and assume it will end well, if attending the original university.
Thanks for the correction. Like I said. I didn't know if it would work.

Monsterflockster
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Re: College in fall

Post by Monsterflockster » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:58 am

Calhoon wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:55 am
My daughter is graduating from high school this June and is planning on starting college this coming fall a state over.

I know that our state universities have sent students home where they're taking classes remotely online.

Sounds like the best guess at this point is that the virus may or may not wane in the summer months but will most likely rebound in the normal flu season.

Are plans changing for kids going to college next fall? Seems like a lot of money to spend if my daughter is going to wind up taking classes from my basement.
My advice and what many families are doing: deferring admittance for a semester/year and going to the local Junior College to start.

Why pay for a non-refundable room & meal plan if they’re at home anyway? JV classes will be online and save you a lot of money.

As for transferring credits... look into it but to most universities they transfer. I have seen students transfer to Cal, Stanford, Ivy Leagues, etc. from a JC. It is much easier in state as many have to accepted all credits is an AA is earned but if you transfer early still only one or two classes may not be accepted due to the way the course is strictured. I have never heard of a school not accepting any of thevtransfer credits.

One family I know hadbtheir child go to JC then transfer to CAL then to Stanford med school. The money they saved on those two years was upwards of 120k.

I’d look into it. Definitely worth the option.

Topic Author
Calhoon
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Re: College in fall

Post by Calhoon » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:06 pm

Thanks everyone.

Monster -- that sounds like a good idea. Will set that up as a plan b for it things aren't looking good in august.

Sandwich
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Re: College in fall

Post by Sandwich » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:59 pm

Calhoon wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:55 am
... I know that our state universities have sent students home where they're taking classes remotely online.

Sounds like the best guess at this point is that the virus may or may not wane in the summer months but will most likely rebound in the normal flu season.

Are plans changing for kids going to college next fall? Seems like a lot of money to spend if my daughter is going to wind up taking classes from my basement.
My DS moved out of the dorm of our flagship a few weeks ago and his instruction is online. Anticipating low employment opportunities during the summer, he has registered for upper-division major related online courses offered by his school.

Where I live, community college enrollment peaked following the 2008 recession and I anticipate this to occur again. Since 2008, our community college system has added more and more online course degree options. Younger son also anticipates low job prospects this summer (his job was suspended a few weeks ago) and is exploring online community college classes for general education / prerequisite requirements. Some general education courses are also designated "$ 0 Textbook" (i.e., Economics, Writing, etc.) wherein all study materials are available online ... so this may be an option to look for as well.

We are also exploring out-of-state online community college courses as well as our state may be overwhelmed with others in the same predicament. We are checking to make sure the courses can transfer into our home state college and university system. Some regions have multi-state agreements (i.e., Western Undergraduate Exchange) wherein residents of other states are charged a lower tuition rate than full out-of-state tuition. Sometimes this means that tuition from another states community college system is comparable to one's own in-state tuition.

Good luck in considering options.

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willardx
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Re: College in fall

Post by willardx » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:55 pm

We are in the same boat with a high school senior and really wondering what will happen. My wife and I view college as more than taking classes for a diploma, so to pivot to a junior college while our daughter lives at home would be a real disappointment.

We had pretty much settled on which school she would attend, but I asked for more scholarship money than what they originally offered. Then the pandemic hit and I haven’t heard back yet. I figure they are scrambling to figure out how to make sense of this all so I am patiently waiting. We get the sense that upper-tier colleges are offering more acceptances (but perhaps with lower scholarships) to counter the effects of families deciding not to send their kids into an uncertain situation.

OnTrack2020
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Re: College in fall

Post by OnTrack2020 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:28 am

We have a senior who is planning to attend our local community college in the Fall. However, when I mentioned to her there was a possibility that classes will be taught on-line (similar to what is now happening in high school with distance/e-learning), she didn't seem to like that idea at all. She likes the social part of school, so am not sure what will happen in the Fall.

megabad
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Re: College in fall

Post by megabad » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:04 am

In general, I think the next 4 years are going to be a great time to be in college (and a really bad time to be coming out of college). I think I said this in another thread with a similar title...this situation would not affect my overall guidance as a parent. I would prepare but still let student make the call imploring him or her to have a long term outlook. I would not hastily throw away ones college future, but I am an optimist and refuse to live in fear (which seems uncommon these days).

Valuethinker
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Re: College in fall

Post by Valuethinker » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:06 am

megabad wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:04 am
In general, I think the next 4 years are going to be a great time to be in college (and a really bad time to be coming out of college). I think I said this in another thread with a similar title...this situation would not affect my overall guidance as a parent. I would prepare but still let student make the call imploring him or her to have a long term outlook. I would not hastily throw away ones college future, but I am an optimist and refuse to live in fear (which seems uncommon these days).
"Insh'allah ... but first, tie up your camel" (as God wills it, but first tie up your camel)

The fear is well founded. A lot of people are going to suffer enormously, economically, in the next few months. A much smaller group are going to suffer medically. In the US those medical costs may compound other money problems.

If, as the UK government is warning its citizens, this is likely to last 6 months at least in some form of restrictions, that's a lot of missed rental payments and mortgage payments.

I agree, however, about long term outlook. 1918-19 flu did not bring about the end of the world, despite killing as many as 50 million people (with a disproportionate impact on healthy young adults). Covid-19 is not the 1919 flu by any stretch of the imagination. It's not even the avian flu we feared.

We will get through this. Whilst there may be geo-political-economic changes that result from this that have lasting impacts, for a young person this is not the end of the world. Things will get better.

It's a "terrible" time to be starting college but that has been true of many other years. It's a much worse one to be graduating college, for sure.

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Re: College in fall

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:13 am

Some requirements may change, but I know from DS#1 taking courses outside of his expensive private college that they specifically disallow all online courses.
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whunter3333
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Re: College in fall

Post by whunter3333 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:08 am

My guess is that is we don't start regular life in the fall then lots of our financial and social bets will be off. The day that they cancel football season (and high school preseason football camps) will be the day when you know that we are moving forward in a different paradigm.

TSR
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Re: College in fall

Post by TSR » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:19 am

My SO is a professor at a competitive small college. Although she has no insight as to what will happen in the fall, the impression I'm getting is that the school would move heaven and earth to have the fall semester start as normal. None of these schools have operating budgets that would allow for a serious decrease in number of students, and the ones that have decent endowments desperately do not want to dip into them now. I would worry about questionable start-back decisions based on these financial imperatives, and would be careful if you have an imuno-compromised kid.

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willardx
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Re: College in fall

Post by willardx » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:05 pm

TSR wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:19 am
My SO is a professor at a competitive small college. Although she has no insight as to what will happen in the fall, the impression I'm getting is that the school would move heaven and earth to have the fall semester start as normal. None of these schools have operating budgets that would allow for a serious decrease in number of students, and the ones that have decent endowments desperately do not want to dip into them now. I would worry about questionable start-back decisions based on these financial imperatives, and would be careful if you have an imuno-compromised kid.
I'm not sure I regret finding this article and database of the financial health of a lot of colleges, but if anyone wants to take a look:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cartercoud ... 32c3e261c4

I would have thought colleges at the top of this list would sooner dip into their endowments (do they have emergency funds like good Bogleheads?), so your remark gave me pause. I'm still watching from the sidelines and not committing, but at some point, we have to move forward. Maybe the first year of college isn't worth the expense, but we are not paying for all four years at once, so that gives us some semblance of flexibility.

DoTheMath
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Re: College in fall

Post by DoTheMath » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:43 pm

The short answer is, like everyone else, colleges and universities are scrambling to be ready for whatever comes next. I am at a large state school and nobody knows if we'll have in-person classes this fall.

Our budget folks are making three plans, one for in-person classes resuming in the fall, one if it happens in the spring, one if it happens after the spring. Even the first is dire as we expect we will lose a bunch of students who no longer can afford to go to college, donations and state budget appropriations (for us public schools) will be down, etc.

A large chunk of a college's endowment is bound to specific purposes by the donors and can't be used to cover ordinary budgets. In any case, the earnings of the endowment are, by-and-large, already built into the budget planning. The only "new" money would be to start spending principle. But this would be a very short term solution, at best.

On the education side classes will run, regardless. There is no alternative. Fortunately, education is an industry that can be done remotely if needed. Doing it online isn't great, but it's manageable.

It is the smaller schools who are in a precarious situation. Many of them basically live check-to-check and could not make it through even a single year of down enrollments and donations. Even before recent events, a number of smaller schools closed every year. If things aren't on track to be more-or-less normal by fall or spring, at the latest, there is going to be a bunch more who close.
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getthatmarshmallow
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Re: College in fall

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm

I don't think anyone knows yet. We (public institution) just moved our summer semester online, and we're cautiously optimistic for the fall being at least somewhat normal. Enrollments are likely to be up if this is like previous recessions, but it's hard to say whether that pattern will hold. Small liberal arts colleges that are tuition dependent are going to have to hope they can be open in the fall; most of them can't survive without it, and moving online isn't as easy for them. That's also not what they're selling (the residential experience, etc.), and if they have to move online it's going to be hard to make the case to students that they shouldn't pay less than a tenth of that cost to study online somewhere else.

But right now everyone is scrambling. I think most people will know more by June.

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Gray
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Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:29 pm

I am deeply, deeply conflicted over this matter. In my case, my daughter has been admitted to the Virginia Tech College of Engineering. The university is currently teaching via Zoom (which is crap for undergrad instruction, tutoring, and collaboration). I have Zoom and WebEx accounts. I’m familiar with them. I can only imagine what will happen in all the weed out courses.

I believe the probability of COVID-19 infection reoccurring in the fall/winter is high. We have no immunity to it, and everyone who has been hunkering down is a sitting duck. It could continue spreading in July, it might start in October/November, or it may not continue. Given how contagious this thing is, my money is on re-emergence.

In light of this situation, I would prefer to have her stay home and take classes at NOVA NVCC. They’re not great, but they don’t cost much, and she can continue her learning. She’s going into computer science, so continuing to learn Java and Python would be a good investment, along with higher level calculus.

BUT.......... look at the exchange below

I have written to the University’s president. I may play the medical card and ask for an accommodation since my wife has two conditions that suppress her immune system. I don’t know.

Ideas?

On Mar 23, 2020, at 11:22 AM, admissions <admissions@vt.edu> wrote:

12 credit hours total; it doesn’t matter when they are taken.

Office of Undergraduate Admissions
Virginia Tech
925 Prices Fork Road
Blacksburg, VA 24061
540/231-6267
540/231-3242 (fax)
admissions@vt.edu
https://vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/

From: Me

I do, thank you.

Is that 12 credit hours over the course of the full year, or 12 credit hours over each semester?


On Mar 23, 2020, at 7:42 AM, admissions <admissions@vt.edu> wrote:

Any and all coursework taken must be reported, and any student who takes 12 college credits must apply as a transfer student. Please let us know if you need further assistance.

Office of Undergraduate Admissions
Virginia Tech
925 Prices Fork Road
Blacksburg, VA 24061
540/231-6267
540/231-3242 (fax)
admissions@vt.edu
https://vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/

From: Me

If my daughter takes courses while not enrolled in any AA degree program, and does not request to transfer any course credits to VT, why would she have to apply as a transfer student?

Key distinction, “attending college elsewhere” (enrolled in a degree program) vs “taking college courses for personal enrichment without any intention of transferring them to VT”.

Please advise. Thank you


On Mar 22, 2020, at 5:12 PM, admissions <admissions@vt.edu> wrote:


Thank you for your email!

We will entertain requests for deferral per normal office policies and procedures. The student needs to emailappchange@vt.edu before the May 1 deadline with the request and reason. That request will be reviewed by the Director and either granted or denied.

Please be aware, however, that policy states that students who request a deferred enrollment date are not allowed to attend college elsewhere during the deferment period. If your daughter plans to take classes in fall 2020/spring 2021, she will have to reapply as a transfer student and will not be considered for deferment. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

Office of Undergraduate Admissions
Virginia Tech
925 Prices Fork Road
Blacksburg, VA 24061
540/231-6267
540/231-3242 (fax)
admissions@vt.edu
https://vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/

From: Me

Dear Admissions Officers,

I hope you and your families are all well.

In light of the Corona Virus pandemic, which is expected to remain an epidemic in the U.S. until late Spring 2020 when vaccinations hopefully become widely available, is Virginia Tech providing students already accepted, and who have paid their matriculation fee, the option to defer their admission until Fall 2021?

If so, what is the time frame (from when to when) and the process for submitting such a request? Is deferred admission guaranteed and formally documented?

If available, this would permit my child to take online classes at NOVA NVCC (enrolling in math, science, and computer science courses) for one year. *If* this option were available, and *if* my child chose to exercise it, she has indicated that she still wants to take ALL of the freshman General Engineering courses at Virginia Tech starting in the Fall of 2021, attend for four years, and pursue graduate school. She is totally committed to attending Virginia Tech.

Thank you very much for any information you can provide.

Kind Regards,

Me

oldfatguy
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Re: College in fall

Post by oldfatguy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:38 pm

Gray wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:29 pm

In light of this situation, I would prefer to have her stay home and take classes at NOVA NVCC. They’re not great, but they don’t cost much, and she can continue her learning. She’s going into computer science, so continuing to learn Java and Python would be a good investment, along with higher level calculus.

Ideas?
If your daughter has no intention of transferring the credits, then why enroll in the courses? She might be able to audit them, so no credit is earned, or she could find free courses/resources online for learning what she is interested in.

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Gray
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Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:47 pm

Having a teacher is better than death-by-PowerPoint. I know my daughter and the pressure of a professor guiding learning and assisting with work is better than none. I’ve never been able to get her interested in Kahn Academy type courses.

She is pretty bored with current senior high school online instruction. She is motivated by teacher/student interactions.

I would happily pay for courses without transferring credits ONLY for the opportunity to keep her learning and growing. For Zoom quality instruction, I’ll pay a community college fare.

To give you an idea of what VT costs, for the 2020-2021 in-state, undergrad, on-campus students, it is:

Tuition: $11,750
Fees: $2,350
College of Engineering Fees: $2,000
Room: ($5,670) and Board ($4,220): $9,890
Books and Supplies: $1,100
Personal: $1,780
Transportation: $1,500
Loan Fees: $70
Total: $30,440
Last edited by Gray on Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oldfatguy
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Re: College in fall

Post by oldfatguy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Gray wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:47 pm
Having a teacher is better than death-by-PowerPoint. I know my daughter and the pressure of a professor guiding learning and assisting with work is better than none. I’ve never been able to get her interested in Kahn Academy type courses.

She is pretty bored with current senior high school online instruction. She is motivated by teacher/student interactions.

I would happily pay for courses without transferring credits ONLY for the opportunity to keep her learning and growing. For Zoom quality instruction, I’ll pay a community college fare.
Sounds like auditing might be your best bet, then.

https://www.nvcc.edu/Catalog/cat2018/en ... udits.html

megabad
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Re: College in fall

Post by megabad » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:00 pm

...stay the course?...

Once again, seems a bit early to me to be applying for deferment...just my thoughts...you can apply for deferment later right?

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Re: College in fall

Post by Prahasaurus » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:12 pm

New Providence wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am
College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.
This crisis will completely transform US universities. Prices are obscene. US universities will look completely different in 3-4 years. And prices will drop significantly.
Asset Allocation: 50% cash (USD), 30% VT, 20% Bitcoin

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Gray
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Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:46 pm

megabad wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:00 pm
...stay the course?...

Once again, seems a bit early to me to be applying for deferment...just my thoughts...you can apply for deferment later right?
VT's deadline for choosing to defer for 1 year is May 1. That's not much time. No doubt it's because that's when they'd let all the folks on their wait list know that they have a spot available.

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Gray
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Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm

oldfatguy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Gray wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:47 pm
Having a teacher is better than death-by-PowerPoint. I know my daughter and the pressure of a professor guiding learning and assisting with work is better than none. I’ve never been able to get her interested in Kahn Academy type courses.

She is pretty bored with current senior high school online instruction. She is motivated by teacher/student interactions.

I would happily pay for courses without transferring credits ONLY for the opportunity to keep her learning and growing. For Zoom quality instruction, I’ll pay a community college fare.
Sounds like auditing might be your best bet, then.

https://www.nvcc.edu/Catalog/cat2018/en ... udits.html
Good idea.

I followed up on your suggestion by engaging NVCC's online advisor (transcript below). The bottom line is it's a crap shoot. If a professor or department doesn't want to play ball, then my daughter is SOL. My impression is that I would need to plan out her year--right now--and reach out to all the departments to obtain approval. The trick will be getting courses with pre-requisites approved when the previous course was audited with an X.

I've added a secondary track by engaging my Congressman. It will be my first test of his constituent services. It *might* help me get some pull with VT on the medical/accommodation waiver angle--but if VT did go along, I'll get in writing.

I just can't for the life of me imagine spending $30,000 for my daughter to be sent home to take classes online. Ever since my daughter expressed interest in VT, I've been following the VT student Reddit forum. The students hate the remote learning. They're calling it Zoom University. I just finished a Master's last fall at Georgetown and although I used Zoom for many group projects (we were all professionals), I made sure every last class was classroom-based. There is so much you gain through in-person interaction, not to mention student-to-student networking.

The NVCC Transcript....

(Advising) Advisor: Welcome to Virtual Advising. Please be prepared to provide your 7 digit student number. I'll be with you in one moment.
Me: Need guidance regarding auditing a course. Concerning prerequisites.
(Advising) Advisor: Good evening
Me: Hello, I'm inquiring on behalf of my daughter, who is a rising freshman accepted into Virginia Tech's college of Engineering. She has previously taken CSC 200 at NVCC. We are exploring the option of her taking a gap year (deferred enrollment for VT), but VT has a policy where if you take 12 credits at any college, you have to reapply as a transfer student. I realize there is curricular and non-curricular enrollment at NVCC. I'm not sure if the latter is referred to as auditing or not. The question is, is there a way that she could take CSC 201, and CSC 202, and other courses, without earning credit, while being able to progress, meet prerequisites for the subsequent courses?
(Advising) Advisor: NCURR refers to workforce development classes
(Advising) Advisor: but unfortunately you need a grade in order to get into higher level classes
Me: That doesn't help me
(Advising) Advisor: so auditing or pass/fail will not be possible for the next tier of classes
Me: Is a grade distinguishable from earning credit.
Me: so if she takes a course for personal enrichment, or personal development...
(Advising) Advisor: grade and credit are one in the same thing
(Advising) Advisor: for us at least
(Advising) Advisor: would she be taking it as audit ?
Me: The objective here is continued learning, taking courses during the gap year in physics, computer science, higher level calculus, etc. The intent is not to transfer the credits. She wants to take the freshman college of engineering classes at VT
(Advising) Advisor: so all the classes you listed are credit bearing classes, so this is the grade policy for them: https://www.nvcc.edu/Catalog/cat2018/po ... rades.html
Me: What about this https://www.nvcc.edu/Catalog/cat2018/ad ... tions.html
(Advising) Advisor: A-F, Incomplete, or Audit
Me: non-curricular student
(Advising) Advisor: a transient (visiting) student. Such students may be enrolled at NOVA while maintaining primary enrollment with another college or university.
(Advising) Advisor: and she'd fall under that category
(Advising) Advisor: but the classes she's taking still issue credits
Me: See, that would lose her admitted status at VT, and she'd be forced to reapply as a transfer applicant
Me: Even if she doesn't request to transfer any credits
(Advising) Advisor: yes, that's frustrating
Me: Is there a solution?
(Advising) Advisor: so auditing is a possibility, but she may have to just work with the divisions and deans to gain access to higher level classes
(Advising) Advisor: so semester 2 or part II will require more paperwork, self advocating
Me: We would need to have greater certainty in advance of making this decision. Presumably, three different departments, at least: Math, Computer Science, and Science.
Me: All would have to be onboard.
(Advising) Advisor: and they may not be able to give that certainty, given they won't be able to see how she's progressing yet etc.
Me: Well, if she didn't pass the exams, she shouldn't progress. I'm saying, if she did, say, get a B or an A, even if auditing, the grade could be recorded, but she wouldn't earn any credit.
Me: Do audited courses earn letter grades with 0 credits earned? or just individual grades within a course?
(Advising) Advisor: audited courses receive a grade of X
(Advising) Advisor: no credits
(Advising) Advisor: Students auditing a course may attend without taking examinations or receiving credit for the course. Permission of the instructor and the academic dean is required to audit a course no later than the census date for the course. See “Auditing a Course,” under “Enrollment,” for more information.
Me: Is Auditing the same or different from non-curricular transient student status?
(Advising) Advisor: different concepts.... curricular students are students who are placed into a degree program wiht us
(Advising) Advisor: ncurr are not, here to upskill for a job, employment training, transient students etc.
(Advising) Advisor: they all take credit based classes which receive a grade or can be audited for non credit and an X
Me: So either can audit a course for an X
(Advising) Advisor: correct (with permission of the instructor)
Me: Ok, then the question for VT would be, if she audits a course as a transient student for no credits, does that count against her? In that circumstance, the only hurdle would be the professor. If that is acceptable, then we would need to reach out to individual departments to see if the progression planned (assuming she passes all the classes with good grades) is approved by them. We would need to get that documented.
(Advising) Advisor: correct
(Advising) Advisor: https://www.nvcc.edu/academics/divisions/index.html
Me: ok, you've given me much to think about. Thank you.
(Advising) Advisor: you can reach the various divisions there
(Advising) Advisor: you're welcome

MAandMEMom
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Re: College in fall

Post by MAandMEMom » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:35 pm

I work at a community college and have a college freshman and a high school senior. For my high school senior who was planning to lifeguard this summer after earning her credential, I will plan to have her take classes (likely Online and we are about to make that decision) this summer if she can’t finish the lifeguard class. Jobs will likely be hard to come by. Because she has yet to matriculate, she can likely take courses at my college as long as I confirm they align with the four year university. Taking a deferral and enrolling elsewhere will cause a student to be viewed as a transfer student and likely forgo any merit scholarships.

College freshman son will likely now not be able to secure a related (civil engineering) job so he will also take classes at my college to get ahead. He will need preapproval as he’s already matriculating.

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Gray
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Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:01 am

The concern I have is the word “reapply” which is not a guarantee. She’s been accepted by the university, the college of engineering, and the female engineering dorm. All separate essays, because to some—it’s just so freakin important...

After the soul sucking experience of applying to colleges, I would rather trade in both kidneys than do it again. I’ll do it once more to help her get into VT’s new innovation campus.

We cannot risk her losing her spot in a really good engineering program at a school that teaches engineering effectively, and is nationally ranked. Bureaucracy is what it is, and policies are what they are, and she will need to network her butt off in the first part of the semester to gain friends and build a support system.

ncbill
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Re: College in fall

Post by ncbill » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:58 am

I'm not letting my kid sign a new apartment lease until we know for sure they're actually going to be on campus for class this fall.

I'm already paying rent on their empty apartment (corporate landlord won't negotiate) through the summer.

Fortunately we have a relative ~30 minutes from campus who has a nice trailer on their property...a little far out, but it is likely that is my kid's residence for at least the first few weeks of fall semester.

Megamill
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Re: College in fall

Post by Megamill » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:27 pm

What about renewable scholarships that have been awarded for Fall 2020 incoming freshmen? Anyone worried that they will remain?

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Gray
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Location: Virginia

Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:53 pm

Megamill wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:27 pm
What about renewable scholarships that have been awarded for Fall 2020 incoming freshmen? Anyone worried that they will remain?
I can’t imagine why they would be impacted unless the student doesn’t show up, or fails to achieve the necessary GPA. It’s possible that colleges may have to gravitate to more paying-full-freight (like me) customers. As an aside, I would love colleges to refer to students as customers as they are (most of them) paying for and (all of them) receiving a service. The attitude of many universities is entitled—kiss my golden ring b.

I’m glad we live really close to VT’s new graduate school, the Innovation Campus, which will teach cohorts of 750 computer science, machine learning, artificial intelligence, technology policy, and data sciences. It will be fully constructed (not using temporary space) by the time she graduates.
Last edited by Gray on Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 8 times in total.

Megamill
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Re: College in fall

Post by Megamill » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:05 pm

Just wondering if the financial crisis caused by this pandemic will negatively impact scholarships and other awards...I don't have any experience with this during the '08-'09 economic downturn, except that i recall college enrollments shot up along with tuition because demand was so huge from all the newly unemployed...

NJdad6
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Re: College in fall

Post by NJdad6 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:11 pm

Prahasaurus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:12 pm
New Providence wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am
College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.
This crisis will completely transform US universities. Prices are obscene. US universities will look completely different in 3-4 years. And prices will drop significantly.
Disagree. There will be little to no long term impact or changes.

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Gray
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Location: Virginia

Re: College in fall

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm

I don’t think the unemployment will be sustained. There are lots of service workers who interact with the public that businesses can’t keep on the rolls. With the stimulus to help businesses and individuals get by, the unemployment rate should drop once the stay home orders are lifted and the plague recedes.

I imagine the people getting killed by this economic shock are high roller service workers that were already over extended. Making too much to qualify for support—no savings, burning up the credit cards and taking 401K withdrawals.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: College in fall

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:50 pm

Prahasaurus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:12 pm
New Providence wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am
College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.
This crisis will completely transform US universities. Prices are obscene. US universities will look completely different in 3-4 years. And prices will drop significantly.
People have been predicting the change in US education for many years. It might happen, but I’m not holding my breath; it’s too late for our family in any case, so I don’t have a dog in this discussion.

This virus will change many things. Not sure about college.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

rich126
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Re: College in fall

Post by rich126 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:34 pm

It would be nice if this would change colleges. Just too much money, too large of endowments, etc. I don't have any kids so thankfully this isn't an expense that I will have to deal with.

I do think they need to change and allow some professions to graduate tuition free. Most notably medical professions. Much of the current medical profession is from overseas otherwise we'd have even bigger shortages. I'm out in AZ and there is certainly a shortage of skilled medical professions.

As far as this fall goes, geez it sure would be nice if this is done by then.

dcabler
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Re: College in fall

Post by dcabler » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:19 pm

Yes, our daughter is finishing up her 2nd semester in college online. We had to go and empty out her dorm a couple of weeks ago. However, they did do a partial refund of her housing and meal plan. She's setting everything up for the fall for on campus just as before. And, I expect that if this ends up not being an option because of coronavirus, then the university will adapt, including costs - just as it's currently doing.
Last edited by dcabler on Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oldfatguy
Posts: 620
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Re: College in fall

Post by oldfatguy » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:24 pm

rich126 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:34 pm
It would be nice if this would change colleges. Just too much money, too large of endowments, etc.
You are talking about a tiny fraction of universities in the US

stoptothink
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Re: College in fall

Post by stoptothink » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:17 pm

NJdad6 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:11 pm
Prahasaurus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:12 pm
New Providence wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am
College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.
This crisis will completely transform US universities. Prices are obscene. US universities will look completely different in 3-4 years. And prices will drop significantly.
Disagree. There will be little to no long term impact or changes.
That doesn't seem to be the opinion of my countless colleagues who teach. I was expecting to go back and teach at local U this fall (I gave it up 1.5yrs ago after doing it for 4yrs), but now I'm not sure the new program that I was slated to teach in is even going to happen.

reimann
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Re: College in fall

Post by reimann » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:43 pm

My daughter is finishing her Freshman year online after the virus struck. She goes to a Big Ten School.
It's hard to imagine having regular classes in the fall. The virus will still be around, lurking, just waiting to be transported to over 30,000 college-age kids and teachers. Parties and close contact.

Nope, I don't see it happening. No parent is going to allow it.
My opinion by the way.

RetiredCSProf
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Re: College in fall

Post by RetiredCSProf » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:40 pm

ncbill wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:58 am
I'm not letting my kid sign a new apartment lease until we know for sure they're actually going to be on campus for class this fall.

I'm already paying rent on their empty apartment (corporate landlord won't negotiate) through the summer.

Fortunately we have a relative ~30 minutes from campus who has a nice trailer on their property...a little far out, but it is likely that is my kid's residence for at least the first few weeks of fall semester.
I am also paying rent on my son's apartment near campus. He and his roommates (all juniors in college) left the apt in mid-March, and classes will be online through the remainder of the semester. Landlord has agreed to early cancellation of lease, with 30-day notice, plus an additional month's rent as a penalty for ending the lease early -- so, they are paying for April and May. The penalty seems unfair, but better than the alternative to pay rent through mid-August, when the one-year lease expires.

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celia
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Re: College in fall

Post by celia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:21 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:41 am
protagonist wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:31 am
Just an idea (I don't know if this would work but others could chime in)....

Assuming your child was accepted in a $60K/year school....when August comes and it seems like they are still only offering online education at full price, ask to defer enrollment for a year and have your child attend community college online for the first year. If they take a full challenging curriculum they should hopefully be able to transfer the credits to the private university and you will have saved the bulk of the $60K. The online education would probably not be much (if at all) inferior .... they would just be taking freshman core courses.
It would be unlikely to be able to transfer credits unless agreed to and approved in advance by the private university. So it's not something you can do and assume it will end well, if attending the original university.
I can confirm that some of the well-known, expensive universities will ONLY accept classes taken with them as they don’t know how rigorous the “same” class is when it is taught elsewhere. If they are granting the degree and companies expect a certain level of competence from them, that’s what they need to provide.

Students at these colleges do not take “freshman core classes” their first year there. They entered with many AP classes (to be competitive during admissions), and are thus taking harder classes from the get-go. They also do not leave after three years just because they had a year’s worth of credits via AP courses. They graduate in 4 years with double majors or masters at the same time they get their bachelor’s.

(One of my kids went to such a school.)

NJdad6
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Re: College in fall

Post by NJdad6 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:44 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:17 pm
NJdad6 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:11 pm
Prahasaurus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:12 pm
New Providence wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am
College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.
This crisis will completely transform US universities. Prices are obscene. US universities will look completely different in 3-4 years. And prices will drop significantly.
Disagree. There will be little to no long term impact or changes.
That doesn't seem to be the opinion of my countless colleagues who teach. I was expecting to go back and teach at local U this fall (I gave it up 1.5yrs ago after doing it for 4yrs), but now I'm not sure the new program that I was slated to teach in is even going to happen.
Not sure how that is related to the comments above. Of course there is short term impact and colleges are cutting back on costs including employees. In a year or 2 it will return to normal and prices will not drop.

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Vulcan
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Re: College in fall

Post by Vulcan » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:02 pm

Monsterflockster wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:58 am
My advice and what many families are doing: deferring admittance for a semester/year and going to the local Junior College to start.

Why pay for a non-refundable room & meal plan if they’re at home anyway? JV classes will be online and save you a lot of money.
This may or may not work depending on what college one's high school senior is headed to next year.

Ours is headed to MIT (having just turned down full-tuition merit offer from Vandy, tempting as it was, particularly considering Vandy's proximity), and I do not think they would accept community college credits - not that there are any that would be beneficial to him.

If first year happens to be online, well, yes, it's a bummer, but we will save room and board: as other well-endowed schools have, MIT refunded unused room and board to their students they sent home.

If anything, in the uncertain future the added value of great education is likely to be even greater, and well-endowed private institutions are more likely to be able to weather the storm and provide students financial support if their family encounters rough waters along the way.

So we are sticking to the plan.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

Normchad
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Re: College in fall

Post by Normchad » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:08 pm

I'm in a similar, but slightly different boat.

My daughter is graduating from undergrad now. She is at home, finishing up everything on-line; and I think it stinks. She will not have commencement etc.

She has fully funded offers to start PhD programs in the fall, and also have good job offers. And she is trying to figure out what to do. If she goes the PhD route, and that starts out online, I think that is a complete waste of her time. On the other hand, if she commits to the jobs, who knows if they will still actually be there when she is supposed to start.

For undergrad, honestly, I would commit to the school and give them as little money as humanly possible. If everything in the fall in on-line, I would bail out of it somehow. I think a lot of the benefit of going to school, is going to school. It's being instructed face-to-face by professors. It's living with other people. It's living on your own. If you;'re not getting that, I wouldn't pay full freight. No way.

stoptothink
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Re: College in fall

Post by stoptothink » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:12 pm

NJdad6 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:44 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:17 pm
NJdad6 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:11 pm
Prahasaurus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:12 pm
New Providence wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:37 am
College is tremendously overpriced even if the classes are in person and not on-line.
This crisis will completely transform US universities. Prices are obscene. US universities will look completely different in 3-4 years. And prices will drop significantly.
Disagree. There will be little to no long term impact or changes.
That doesn't seem to be the opinion of my countless colleagues who teach. I was expecting to go back and teach at local U this fall (I gave it up 1.5yrs ago after doing it for 4yrs), but now I'm not sure the new program that I was slated to teach in is even going to happen.
Not sure how that is related to the comments above. Of course there is short term impact and colleges are cutting back on costs including employees. In a year or 2 it will return to normal and prices will not drop.
I was just mentioning the short-term because it directly impacts me; at least this fall and possibly long-term (I can't say whether the program I was supposed to teach in ever opens now). Most of my colleagues in academia expect long-term changes, at the very least increased emphasis on remote learning.

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