Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:16 pm

mptfan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:21 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:30 am
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:24 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
I guess if you manage your own money you are working as a FA and are similarly categorized !!
You got it!

"The IRP would like you to take this to its extreme logical conclusions, e.g. you’re working as a money manager if you handle your own investments, you’re working as a gardener if you mow your own lawn, you’re working as a chauffeur if you don’t hire a driver, you’re a pro-blogger if you have a blog, and so on."
Nope, not correct. This is really not that complicated... if you save money by doing your own lawn or driving yourself somewhere, that is not the same thing as getting paid to do your own lawn. Geesh people, it really is not complicated. Saving money by doing something yourself is not the same thing as getting paid to do the same thing. And doing a hobby is not working just because that same activity may be a job for someone else. Why do some people insist in making it so complicated?

:oops:
What is the difference between doing your own lawn and paying someone to do your lawn from the earnings from doing your friend's lawn?

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:56 pm

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:16 pm
What is the difference between doing your own lawn and paying someone to do your lawn from the earnings from doing your friend's lawn?
In the former case you are not working for money, whereas in the latter case you are.

bhsince87
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by bhsince87 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:17 pm

TravelforFun wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 pm
bhsince87 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 pm
...
My biggest downside so far is that I am having a hard time spending money. I was planning on a 3% withdrawal rate, with a $9-10k monthly budget. So far, I'm averaging about $2k per month. Not a bad problem to have, but I need to figure out how to get over the $ hoarding mentality!
You set up a budget of $9-10K a month based on, I guess, your spending level at the time. How did you end up spending only $2k per month? Something caused you to cut back on everything?

TravelforFun
We were spending about $60-70k per year before retirement. I added $35k for health insurance/healthcare (ACA) and and extra $10k for increased travel.

Turns out DW is still working, so our health insurance is much less than $35k. That's the biggest difference from what we had planned.

Also, I cut back big time on hobby and entertainment spending, and we have yet to increase travel.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace." Samuel Adams

chuckb84
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by chuckb84 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:48 pm

Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
Then I'm a cook, dishwasher, auto mechanic, motorcycle and bicycle mechanic, plumber, sort of an electrician, roofer, landscaper, drip irrigation specialist, personal trainer for DW, general contractor, travel agent, financial advisor, web site designer, photographer. Planning to add ski bum, master gardener, and who knows what else. What I'm not is bored :).

Lazareth
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Lazareth » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:14 am

Early retirement at 58 from my executive search practice. i envisioned a life of leisure and some consulting. But working from home, the boredom, trying to find the motivation to win and then fulfilling consulting gigs, are not what it's cracked up to be.
I soon answer a posting on a community flier, and I now fully enjoy my low stress, p/t role as a school bus driver. For those physically able to pass a DOT physical, and if you enjoy driving, I highly recommend being a van driver, special ed driver, or just regular big-bus driver likes me. The local school transportation dept, or local school bus company will train you.For those who prefer a less demanding role, get out and be a crossing guard or even a special needs van monitor. It gets you out of the house in the morning, the kids and the responsibility are invigorating, and it keeps me sharp. After a career of corporate sales and consulting it was a big culture change (I recently brought a plate of brownies for the break table), and I'm better for it. It's so nice to just get in my bus each morning and follow the rules.
a/65, retired, married, enjoy p/t employment.

jrbdmb
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by jrbdmb » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:20 am

tm3 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:57 pm
My informal polling suggests that around 10-15% of folks end up being not happy with retirement.

Why is that? No doubt that individual situations differ, but an overly simplified way of looking at it is that having a plan is crucial.

Expecting to wake up to unicorns and rainbows on retirement day #1 is a set up for a fall.
I suspect that 10-15% of folks would be unhappy with just about anything. :) Honestly, i thought that percentage would be higher, maybe I need to look into moving up my retirement by a few years.

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KlingKlang
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by KlingKlang » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:25 am

mptfan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:56 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:16 pm
What is the difference between doing your own lawn and paying someone to do your lawn from the earnings from doing your friend's lawn?
In the former case you are not working for money, whereas in the latter case you are.
In the latter case the IRS will get involved.

technovelist
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by technovelist » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:29 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:31 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:06 pm
mptfan wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:49 am
I don't get how some people claim to be retired while still working. If you are running two businesses and managing real estate, you are not retired.
It's a mindset change more than anything. Retirement doesn't require that you sit in a Barcalounger watching Matlock reruns interspersed with burial insurance and catheter ads while drinking prune smoothies.

I've been retired since I was 51 for coming on 3 years now and I'm 1 year into a 2 year college course. Am I still retired? How can I be retired since I'm a full time college student? I could also see doing something that made money too if I felt it was interesting but I have no need at all financially to do so.
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a mindset, I think it is more than that. If it was just a mindset change, then I could continue to work full time and claim that I am retired now because I changed my mindset while working full time. I just don't buy that. For the word to have any meaning it has to mean something that is more objective than whatever you think it means or whatever mindset you have at the time.

I agree that being retired does not require sitting in a lounge chair all day, but I think it does require avoiding working for pay. You can do pretty much whatever you want while being retired except work for pay. College courses are not paid work so you can take courses and still be retired, so long as you are not paid to take the courses. I also don't think that you can be retired while working full time and doing paid work that you find interesting but for which you do not need the money. By that logic anyone who continues to work full time can claim that their work is interesting and that they do not need the money and therefore claim that they are retired, and Warren Buffett is not retired and Steve Jobs was not retired while he continued to work long hours because he loved his job and found it interesting and did not need the money because he was a billionare. If that is the definition of retired, then I think the word loses its meaning.

I suppose there can be a little bit of wiggle room for someone who works very little and only for fun or something to do, like one day a week at the golf course to get reduced green fees, but as soon as I say that, someone will come along and say what about two or three days a week at the golf course? And then it quickly becomes a slippery slope. So either you are retired or you are not. If you are not, then you may be mostly retired or partially retired, but if you work for money you are not retired.
How about if you don't work for pay but you spend 40 or more hours a week on your own software project that may or may not wind up with a big payday some day?

Asking for a friend...
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:58 am

technovelist wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:29 am
mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:31 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:06 pm
mptfan wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:49 am
I don't get how some people claim to be retired while still working. If you are running two businesses and managing real estate, you are not retired.
It's a mindset change more than anything. Retirement doesn't require that you sit in a Barcalounger watching Matlock reruns interspersed with burial insurance and catheter ads while drinking prune smoothies.

I've been retired since I was 51 for coming on 3 years now and I'm 1 year into a 2 year college course. Am I still retired? How can I be retired since I'm a full time college student? I could also see doing something that made money too if I felt it was interesting but I have no need at all financially to do so.
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a mindset, I think it is more than that. If it was just a mindset change, then I could continue to work full time and claim that I am retired now because I changed my mindset while working full time. I just don't buy that. For the word to have any meaning it has to mean something that is more objective than whatever you think it means or whatever mindset you have at the time.

I agree that being retired does not require sitting in a lounge chair all day, but I think it does require avoiding working for pay. You can do pretty much whatever you want while being retired except work for pay. College courses are not paid work so you can take courses and still be retired, so long as you are not paid to take the courses. I also don't think that you can be retired while working full time and doing paid work that you find interesting but for which you do not need the money. By that logic anyone who continues to work full time can claim that their work is interesting and that they do not need the money and therefore claim that they are retired, and Warren Buffett is not retired and Steve Jobs was not retired while he continued to work long hours because he loved his job and found it interesting and did not need the money because he was a billionare. If that is the definition of retired, then I think the word loses its meaning.

I suppose there can be a little bit of wiggle room for someone who works very little and only for fun or something to do, like one day a week at the golf course to get reduced green fees, but as soon as I say that, someone will come along and say what about two or three days a week at the golf course? And then it quickly becomes a slippery slope. So either you are retired or you are not. If you are not, then you may be mostly retired or partially retired, but if you work for money you are not retired.
How about if you don't work for pay but you spend 40 or more hours a week on your own software project that may or may not wind up with a big payday some day?

Asking for a friend...
I am pretty sure that the IRP would not consider that retired.

protagonist
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by protagonist » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:04 pm

jrbdmb wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:20 am
tm3 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:57 pm
My informal polling suggests that around 10-15% of folks end up being not happy with retirement.

Why is that? No doubt that individual situations differ, but an overly simplified way of looking at it is that having a plan is crucial.

Expecting to wake up to unicorns and rainbows on retirement day #1 is a set up for a fall.
I suspect that 10-15% of folks would be unhappy with just about anything. :) Honestly, i thought that percentage would be higher, maybe I need to look into moving up my retirement by a few years.
Interesting. The numbers tm3 arrived at" via "informal polling" of Bogleheads are very close to those reported in this Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedknutson ... fcda206ab1

I wonder how "happiness quotient" in retirement correlates with wealth. My guess is, much less than one might assume. I think that the "average" Boglehead is probably a fair amount wealthier than the "average" American. Yet the Forbes article suggests that 91% of retirees state they are happy, despite the fact that "over half" are financially insecure.

I also wonder how much perception of financial insecurity correlates with wealth. Judging from the number of posts I have seen on this site over the years suggesting that you need at least a 6 figure salary to survive and some multiple of a seven figure portfolio to retire, my guess would be that the correlation is much less than one might think.

And this is very interesting: "Only 11 percent of those who retired earlier claimed they did because their wealth allowed them to." So many Bogleheads threads are by people worried whether they have enough money to retire.

As jrbdmb stated: "I suspect that 10-15% of folks would be unhappy with just about anything."
Last edited by protagonist on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

andypanda
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by andypanda » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:21 pm

I've been retired since 2012.

I've never met anyone who is disenchanted with retirement. I suppose I don't hang with the right crowd. :sharebeer

Case59
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Case59 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:30 pm

andypanda wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:21 pm
I've been retired since 2012.

I've never met anyone who is disenchanted with retirement. I suppose I don't hang with the right crowd. :sharebeer
I ditto this totally. And I retired in 2012 also. :sharebeer
"Most quotations on the internet are incorrect."-Mark Twain

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VictoriaF
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm

COVID-19 paradox:
- Working people are legitimately staying at home, away from the locations and commutes that they don't like.
- As a retiree, I don't want to stay at home, away from the locations and activities that I like.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

mike77308
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mike77308 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:35 pm

I retired from one of the largest companies in the world. Almost everyone that I worked with considered retirement as a tragic event, a complete loss of purpose. Not surprising considering that the corporate culture certainly encouraged that your career be your number one priority on a daily basis. Very few of my colleagues had interests outside of the office and gave me that "deer in the headlights" look when I told them that I had 20 years worth of projects (mostly car, sailboat and tractor restorations) waiting for me at my workshop. After 7 years of retirement my to-do project list seems to be growing faster than my completed projects list. I couldn't imagine going back into the job market.

protagonist
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by protagonist » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:25 am

mike77308 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:35 pm
I retired from one of the largest companies in the world. Almost everyone that I worked with considered retirement as a tragic event, a complete loss of purpose. Not surprising considering that the corporate culture certainly encouraged that your career be your number one priority on a daily basis.
Retiring should not represent a loss of purpose. It should represent a shifting of purpose.

This is particularly true if you had previously been working for somebody else, to help finance their dream. In retirement you can finance your own.

flyingaway
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by flyingaway » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:32 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm
COVID-19 paradox:
- Working people are legitimately staying at home, away from the locations and commutes that they don't like.
- As a retiree, I don't want to stay at home, away from the locations and activities that I like.

Victoria
This is a perfect way of adjusting expenses automatically when the market is down, so hopefully the 4% rule still works.

protagonist
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by protagonist » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:37 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm
COVID-19 paradox:
- Working people are legitimately staying at home, away from the locations and commutes that they don't like.
- As a retiree, I don't want to stay at home, away from the locations and activities that I like.

Victoria
If I could humbly offer a piece of advice (just from my own experience)... Maybe use the time to find new ways to occupy your time at home creatively? A new hobby maybe, that is challenging and time consuming? Music, chess, art, writing, Lithuanian hat dancing, raising chrysanthemums, whatever. That could carry over even when the crisis abates, as it would increase your options for happiness. Or take some of your current hobbies (eg comedy) to a new level. There are a lot of skills people are developing online now in lieu of direct contact possibilities.

Just an idea.....

(As far as "locations you like", find beautiful places to hike in the woods, bike rides..... I've found ones since the crisis that I didn't know existed since the crisis).
Last edited by protagonist on Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

beernutz
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by beernutz » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:06 pm

What a great thread. I get a kick out of reading the replies.

I have about 3 years before my planned retirement at 64 and I can't imagine having regrets but who knows until they experience it.

observing
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by observing » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:06 pm

beernutz wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:06 pm
What a great thread. I get a kick out of reading the replies.

I have about 3 years before my planned retirement at 64 and I can't imagine having regrets but who knows until they experience it.
If you're not dreading the thought of retirement now, you probably won't regret it when you do. The people I've known that are unhappy in retirement are the ones who measured their worth solely by where they worked or what they did.

I'm in my sixties and retired three years ago from a job I loved. At the time, I felt like I could have worked at least another ten years. But what if, by that time, my physical (or mental) faculties declined to the point where I couldn't do the things I had delayed because I was working? Instead, after a career of hardware design and software development, I'm now developing woodworking skills and learning a (non-computer) language.

I couldn't wait to retire and I highly recommend it for anyone else in a position to do so, as long as you're not inclined to lay on a couch and watch TV all day.

Barkingsparrow
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Barkingsparrow » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:50 am

beernutz wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:06 pm
What a great thread. I get a kick out of reading the replies.

I have about 3 years before my planned retirement at 64 and I can't imagine having regrets but who knows until they experience it.
I had considered retiring at the end of 2021 (when I'll be 63), but the current coronavirus crisis, the stock market plunge, and the administration's aggressive efforts to terminate the ACA has put me more into a 'survive until 65' frame of mind.

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tennisplyr
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by tennisplyr » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:01 am

beernutz wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:06 pm
What a great thread. I get a kick out of reading the replies.

I have about 3 years before my planned retirement at 64 and I can't imagine having regrets but who knows until they experience it.
As the OP, glad to see the post still going. Now retired 9 years and very blessed to have this time in my life to live on my terms. Am now a grandpa and learning pickleball in addition to tennis. Really enjoying the weather here. Stay well!!
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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Watty
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Watty » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:03 am

I retired about 4.5 years ago just before I turned 59. Since then we have taken about one big trip each year and a number of smaller road trips.

I am very glad I retired when I did because;

1) Even if things go well it will likely be a long time until travel becomes a easy to do. If I had not retired when I did I would have missed out on a lot of travel.

2) I don't need to deal with all the stress of working during the pandemic even though I likely would have been working from at home.

Barkingsparrow wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:50 am
beernutz wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:06 pm
What a great thread. I get a kick out of reading the replies.

I have about 3 years before my planned retirement at 64 and I can't imagine having regrets but who knows until they experience it.
I had considered retiring at the end of 2021 (when I'll be 63), but the current coronavirus crisis, the stock market plunge, and the administration's aggressive efforts to terminate the ACA has put me more into a 'survive until 65' frame of mind.
Assuming that you work for a company where you can get 18 months of COBRA "survive until you are 63.5" might be another option to consider to get around the healthcare issues.

renue74
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by renue74 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:06 am

I'm 45 and just going through my "next chapter in life," after owning a small business for 21 years. I can't say I'm retired...but just working part time and changing my thinking.

I agree...those who tie their existence to their job title might find it difficult, but I look at it this way....over the years, I've had many clients and had many agency/client relationships. Those clients are simply numbers...cogs in a machine. Once they leave their positions (fired, quit, retire), they leave no lasting effect on these companies they worked for. Someone comes in and changes everything because their ways are different from the previous employees. Why work a whole life with this outcome?!?

I look forward to retiring because it is a new chapter in life...one that should be exciting...filled with plans and ideas. If you regretted retiring, you may have not prepared mentally or physically for this next chapter.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am

protagonist wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:37 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm
COVID-19 paradox:
- Working people are legitimately staying at home, away from the locations and commutes that they don't like.
- As a retiree, I don't want to stay at home, away from the locations and activities that I like.

Victoria
If I could humbly offer a piece of advice (just from my own experience)... Maybe use the time to find new ways to occupy your time at home creatively? A new hobby maybe, that is challenging and time consuming? Music, chess, art, writing, Lithuanian hat dancing, raising chrysanthemums, whatever. That could carry over even when the crisis abates, as it would increase your options for happiness. Or take some of your current hobbies (eg comedy) to a new level. There are a lot of skills people are developing online now in lieu of direct contact possibilities.

Just an idea.....

(As far as "locations you like", find beautiful places to hike in the woods, bike rides..... I've found ones since the crisis that I didn't know existed since the crisis).
You got it backwards. I am the last person needing an advice for spending my time.

One of my retirement activities is looking for interesting turns of phrase in stand-up, on this site, and elsewhere.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

protagonist
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by protagonist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:10 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am
protagonist wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:37 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm
COVID-19 paradox:
- Working people are legitimately staying at home, away from the locations and commutes that they don't like.
- As a retiree, I don't want to stay at home, away from the locations and activities that I like.

Victoria
If I could humbly offer a piece of advice (just from my own experience)... Maybe use the time to find new ways to occupy your time at home creatively? A new hobby maybe, that is challenging and time consuming? Music, chess, art, writing, Lithuanian hat dancing, raising chrysanthemums, whatever. That could carry over even when the crisis abates, as it would increase your options for happiness. Or take some of your current hobbies (eg comedy) to a new level. There are a lot of skills people are developing online now in lieu of direct contact possibilities.

Just an idea.....

(As far as "locations you like", find beautiful places to hike in the woods, bike rides..... I've found ones since the crisis that I didn't know existed since the crisis).
You got it backwards. I am the last person needing an advice for spending my time.

One of my retirement activities is looking for interesting turns of phrase in stand-up, on this site, and elsewhere.

Victoria
That was always my impression of you actually.
I suppose I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying that staying at home was preventing you from doing things you like. And so I was trying to be helpful.
If I did I apologize.

travelspot
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by travelspot » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:42 pm

renue74 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:06 am
I'm 45 and just going through my "next chapter in life," after owning a small business for 21 years. I can't say I'm retired...but just working part time and changing my thinking.

I agree...those who tie their existence to their job title might find it difficult, but I look at it this way....over the years, I've had many clients and had many agency/client relationships. Those clients are simply numbers...cogs in a machine. Once they leave their positions (fired, quit, retire), they leave no lasting effect on these companies they worked for. Someone comes in and changes everything because their ways are different from the previous employees. Why work a whole life with this outcome?!?

I look forward to retiring because it is a new chapter in life...one that should be exciting...filled with plans and ideas. If you regretted retiring, you may have not prepared mentally or physically for this next chapter.
Well stated and agree 100%. Especially regarding your middle paragraph; coming to this realization was a major factor in deciding take my foot off the career pedal, once I had “enough.”
If you don't do stuff, then you don't do stuff.

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