Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

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Millennial
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Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Millennial » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:17 pm

I'm planning a kitchen reno and doing appliance research as a result. One goal is to have an energy efficient dishwasher (therefore no heated dry) that will still produce dry dishes. Miele auto-open doors seem perfect, as right now I've had good luck getting dry dishes when I can open DW right as it finishes. Downside is they're $1,800.

Bosch has a new tech called Crystal Dry which, allegedly, dries dishes using heat produced by zeolite crystals stored in a chamber in the back. This is a much cheaper option, with models around $1,000.

Crystal Dry

This seems way too good to be true - no extra energy usage and bone dry plastics? No need to replace the magic crystals?

Does anyone have experience with this system, either positive or negative?

Thanks!

adamthesmythe
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by adamthesmythe » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:09 pm

ZeoliteS (a class of materials) reversibly adsorb and desorb gases. As far as I know, water vapor would need to be desorbed by heating the material. Not clear to me how this saves energy.

[edit]

Looked at the picture. Apparently there's a pump involved, and adsorption of water vapor is exothermic?

Anyway...looks complicated...complicated + novel = maybe less reliable.

bluebolt
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by bluebolt » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:38 pm

Millennial wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:17 pm
I'm planning a kitchen reno and doing appliance research as a result. One goal is to have an energy efficient dishwasher (therefore no heated dry) that will still produce dry dishes. Miele auto-open doors seem perfect, as right now I've had good luck getting dry dishes when I can open DW right as it finishes. Downside is they're $1,800.

Bosch has a new tech called Crystal Dry which, allegedly, dries dishes using heat produced by zeolite crystals stored in a chamber in the back. This is a much cheaper option, with models around $1,000.

Crystal Dry

This seems way too good to be true - no extra energy usage and bone dry plastics? No need to replace the magic crystals?

Does anyone have experience with this system, either positive or negative?

Thanks!
Bosch also has auto-open in some of their 500 models, starting under $1K.

mrb09
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by mrb09 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:41 pm

Don't know how it works. But after our dishwasher died at Christmas, we went to get a new dishwasher and got one. Didn't specifically look for Crystal Dry, but that's what we ended up with.

The glasses and silverware have visibly less water spots than our old Samsung dishwasher. We generally don't do plastics in the dishwasher, so not sure about that.

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Millennial
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Millennial » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:23 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Bosch also has auto-open in some of their 500 models, starting under $1K.
You're right, thanks for that!
adamthesmythe wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:09 pm
Anyway...looks complicated...complicated + novel = maybe less reliable.
I'm with you - that's what prompted this post
mrb09 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:41 pm
The glasses and silverware have visibly less water spots than our old Samsung dishwasher. We generally don't do plastics in the dishwasher, so not sure about that.
Thanks!

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Bogle7
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zeolite witchcraft

Post by Bogle7 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:23 pm

adamthesmythe wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:09 pm
Anyway...looks novel = maybe less reliable.
In Thermador dishwashers since 2008.
Not “novel”.

More at https://blog.yaleappliance.com/miele-fu ... ishwashers

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Cubicle
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Re: zeolite witchcraft

Post by Cubicle » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:30 pm

https://www.bosch-home.com/us/experience-bosch/crystaldry wrote:Step 5: A small heating element recharges the minerals during the next wash cycle, preparing them for the drying cycle.
Still essentially "burning" the moisture off.
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seawolf21
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by seawolf21 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:53 am

I have crystal dry. Everything is dry after the cycle other than area of plastic that can collect water.

If you want a door opener, 2019 Bosch 500 series should now offer that. Samsung does that as well.
Last edited by seawolf21 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

adamthesmythe
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Re: zeolite witchcraft

Post by adamthesmythe » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:01 pm

Bogle7 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:23 pm
adamthesmythe wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:09 pm
Anyway...looks novel = maybe less reliable.
In Thermador dishwashers since 2008.
Not “novel”.

More at https://blog.yaleappliance.com/miele-fu ... ishwashers
Thermador is owned by Bosch. So perhaps this is best characterized as a high-end technology now moving down into less expensive models.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:55 pm

Our Samsung dishwasher opens the door when finished. This feature has worked it's way down to less expensive dishwashers, if that is a desired feature.

I was rolling by the dishwasher when I experienced my first door-opening session. I had no idea the dishwasher had even been running, as it is very quiet, and music was playing.

Definitely gave me a start. Nothing like seeing something moving towards you in your peripheral vision. :shock:

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Nearly A Moose
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Nearly A Moose » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:05 pm

Reviving this thread - having a similar situation as OP - old GE Profile died in a mildly dramatic way, and just in the middle of a global pandemic, so fun.

Anyone have any experience on how Crystal Dry works with plastic (e.g., tupperware, kids sippy cups, etc.)? Our old dishwasher was great with plates and glasses, but all plastic had to get transitioned to the drying rack. I'd gladly pay a few hundred dollars extra if it means the plastics come out dry.

OP, did you end up getting it?

I guess I'd otherwise be getting an auto-opening model.

Thanks!
Pardon typos, I'm probably using my fat thumbs on a tiny phone.

michaeljc70
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:38 pm

I have a Bosch non-Crystal non-auto opening dishwasher and don't have a lot of problems with plastics not drying. It is all in the angling. Yes, you will probably not fit as much, but there are two of us and we don't use a ton of plastics (mostly storage containers). Our ceramic coffee mugs have a divot on the underside and that is trickier. There are other brands that auto-open. Samsung, LG and Electrolux are a few I know of. Then there is always manually opening the door which I do sometimes.

PS: I even am able to get the double ended liquor jigger to come out dry with angling.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

123
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by 123 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:50 pm

My grandmothers washed dishes in the sink and placed them in a wire rack on the counter where they dried. Didn't use any purchased energy at all to dry. I wonder how long and at what cost it will take technology to achieve the same result (dry dishes with no purchased energy)? Grandmas method worked day after day without error and never needed a service call. She did buy a new drying rack set every 5 or 10 years I think.
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Starfish
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Starfish » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 pm

I did not open the link and have no idea what zeolite is but there is a lot of wasted heat in the washing process when the hot water is thrown away. If that hot water heats something that stores heat before being dumped, you could save the energy. Drying the dishes should not be a lot of energy anyway.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by daheld » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:58 am

Starfish wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 pm
I did not open the link and have no idea what zeolite is but there is a lot of wasted heat in the washing process when the hot water is thrown away. If that hot water heats something that stores heat before being dumped, you could save the energy. Drying the dishes should not be a lot of energy anyway.
This. Crystals in a dishwasher to dry your dishes is an ultimate gimmick. The energy used to run a tiny fan to dry your dishes is so minuscule it would be imperceptible in your utility bill. Get a normal dishwasher with power dry.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by bob60014 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:31 am

I can't address the Crystal Dry option but, we recently purchased a Bosch 500 series with the AutoAir function and it works perfectly. No spotting, plastics dry ok and after a month of use our dishes look absolutely great.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Cubicle » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:44 am

Also vouching that handwashing the dishes is the best way. My grandparents, parents, siblings, self do not use a dishwasher. Even though they have been in the most of houses we've lived in.
Time.com wrote:Washing Dishes Is a Really Great Stress Reliever, Science Says
https://time.com/4056280/washing-dishes ... ndfulness/

Personally, I find washing dishes therapeutic. I minimize water use, energy, & soap. And no worries about dishes not drying.

I understand it's not for everyone. But I challenged a past girlfriend to stopwatch check the time she spent rinsing, loading, unloading, filling the soap, & cleanup of the counter & dishwasher racks/door compared to my time washing, soaping, placing the drying rack. Multiplied by the final cleanliness. She wouldn't accept that I was right. Every time.
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Starfish
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Starfish » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:19 pm

I did not have a dishwasher for most of my life and I washed a lot of dishes. It's not the worst work but it gives me back pains after a while.
It is also more time consuming.

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Millennial
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Millennial » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:50 pm

Nearly A Moose wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:05 pm
OP, did you end up getting it?
Thanks!
Not yet, reno is planned for this summer. Hopefully.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by slbnoob » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:02 pm

123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:50 pm
My grandmothers washed dishes in the sink and placed them in a wire rack on the counter where they dried. Didn't use any purchased energy at all to dry. I wonder how long and at what cost it will take technology to achieve the same result (dry dishes with no purchased energy)? Grandmas method worked day after day without error and never needed a service call. She did buy a new drying rack set every 5 or 10 years I think.
Not entirely true.
Grandma was a much more complex model with many features than just a regular DW.
Grandma needed energy input, usually multiple times a day. Grandma also errored out sometimes and needed repairs with an increasing frequency annually as the model got older and suffered expected or worse, wear and tear.

michaeljc70
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by michaeljc70 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:35 pm

My dishwasher uses 7 liters of water. I doubt anyone could safely/effectively wash everything I can fit in my dishwasher using less than 2 gallons of water. I read in a study they found the average water usage with hand washing is 13 gallons! It costs around $4 a month in electricity to run my dishwasher according to the energy star sticker. I'll stick with the dishwasher.

MarkerFM
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by MarkerFM » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:39 pm

Odd that you would get so many responses that don't answer your question. Here's one that does.

We have a Bosch-made, Thermador-branded dishwasher with this technology. It works. Not sure about how much energy it uses, but it does leave plastics dry. It has more bells and whistles than we can possibly use, but we always use this one. How much more you should pay I can't answer, we got ours at a steep discount as part of a package including ovens and their Freedom induction cooktop, which is also true witchcraft-in a good way.

Nearly A Moose
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Nearly A Moose » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:39 pm

MarkerFM wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:39 pm
Odd that you would get so many responses that don't answer your question. Here's one that does.

We have a Bosch-made, Thermador-branded dishwasher with this technology. It works. Not sure about how much energy it uses, but it does leave plastics dry. It has more bells and whistles than we can possibly use, but we always use this one. How much more you should pay I can't answer, we got ours at a steep discount as part of a package including ovens and their Freedom induction cooktop, which is also true witchcraft-in a good way.
Thanks, very helpful. We’re unfortunately not in a position to wait for a sale, so I think we’re going to try it. Now let’s see if I can figure out how to install it.
Pardon typos, I'm probably using my fat thumbs on a tiny phone.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by dratkinson » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:17 pm

Another non-answer.


Moved into current home 20yrs ago. It had a Kenmore Ultra Wash dishwasher. On it's control panel are options for "Water Heat" and "No Heat Dry". I've always used both options. Dishes seem to be dry in the morning.

Since I've seen steam venting from top of dishwasher after a cycle, I assumed residual heat was drying the dishes.


From another forum topic (other uses for dishwasher). My dishwasher's typical use is as place to put dishes for drying after I hand wash them. Why? Because I can do the job faster (5min vs ~1hr). So it has spent the majority of its life being an expensive drying rack.

I do run it occasionally to ensure it's still working. Or to clean hairbrushes and combs.



It should not be too hard to install a dishwasher. Remember seeing one installed in <1hr. (Replaced dead dishwasher for a friend's mother. Arranged to have Sears installer come when she was out of the house. It was a great surprise. We got a good meal out of the deal. And didn't have to wash dishes afterwards.)

Look for YouTube instructional videos.
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longterm100
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by longterm100 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:35 pm

I have a new Bosch crystal dry. It works gear and dries most plastics. There is always some small amount of water on the top of plastics if they have a lip or similar e.g the water gets trapped. But over all I am very pleased with it. The crystal dry cycle takes 2.5 hrs. I assume a lot of that time is the drying.

michaeljc70
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by michaeljc70 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:15 pm

MarkerFM wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:39 pm
Odd that you would get so many responses that don't answer your question. Here's one that does.
Bogleheads always go beyond what is asked.

VaR
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by VaR » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:00 pm

Here's another non-answer... :)

Zeolite is also used in dessicant dehumidifiers. The zeolite adsorbs moisture that is then released by heating the zeolite, causing the water to fall into a storage tank that you empty.

It's kind of interesting to see this used in a dishwasher. If the Bosch marketing department is to be believed, the heat from the washing cycle is used to recharge the zeolite, making its use for drying very efficient. I could see some combination of air venting and dehumidification being pretty efficient at drying dishes.

Myself, I use the "crack the door open and procrastinate" method of getting fully dry dishes out of the dishwasher - though most dishes (but not plastics) are actually dry at the end of the cycle in my decade-old Bosch 800-series with just condensation drying.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:08 pm

Starfish wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:19 pm
I did not have a dishwasher for most of my life and I washed a lot of dishes. It's not the worst work but it gives me back pains after a while.
It is also more time consuming.
Get thee to Amazon and search for “kitchen pad.” Simple and effective.

ETA: I use my dishwasher, but our pad is wonderful to stand n when working in the kitchen.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

EHEngineer
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by EHEngineer » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:44 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:08 pm
Starfish wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:19 pm
I did not have a dishwasher for most of my life and I washed a lot of dishes. It's not the worst work but it gives me back pains after a while.
It is also more time consuming.
Get thee to Amazon and search for “kitchen pad.” Simple and effective.

ETA: I use my dishwasher, but our pad is wonderful to stand n when working in the kitchen.
But if you already have a pad, get rid of it :happy For me, the extra thickness requires extra bending and makes it worse, not better. YMMV.
Or, you can ... decline to let me, a stranger on the Internet, egg you on to an exercise in time-wasting, and you could say "I'm probably OK and I don't care about it that much." -Nisiprius

Starfish
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by Starfish » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:09 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:08 pm
Starfish wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:19 pm
I did not have a dishwasher for most of my life and I washed a lot of dishes. It's not the worst work but it gives me back pains after a while.
It is also more time consuming.
Get thee to Amazon and search for “kitchen pad.” Simple and effective.

ETA: I use my dishwasher, but our pad is wonderful to stand n when working in the kitchen.
The pads like the apposite of my problem. I need to be smaller not taller :).

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:16 pm

Starfish wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:09 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:08 pm
Starfish wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:19 pm
I did not have a dishwasher for most of my life and I washed a lot of dishes. It's not the worst work but it gives me back pains after a while.
It is also more time consuming.
Get thee to Amazon and search for “kitchen pad.” Simple and effective.

ETA: I use my dishwasher, but our pad is wonderful to stand n when working in the kitchen.
The pads like the apposite of my problem. I need to be smaller not taller :).
A friend of mine, considerably taller than me, uses the pad successfully. It’s maybe a half inch thick, but it cushions your feet, easier on your knees and back. Whatever, don’t believe me, but it worked for me, who couldn’t stand at the sink for more than 15 minutes without back pain.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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Re: Bosch Crystal Dry - any personal experiences with this witchcraft?

Post by cmwahl » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:23 pm

We purchased a Bosch 800 series in December 2019 with the Crystal Dry. It works great! Everything is dry, including plastics on upper two shelves. We love this dishwasher! It replaced a 17 yr old Bosch that we loved, but this one is even better.

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