Daycare closed

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helwardman
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by helwardman » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:53 pm

Our daycare has closed for at least the next month. We got "store credit" on the unused portion of what we paid for March, to put toward tuition when they open back up.

smitcat
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:27 am

SilverGirl wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:52 pm
smitcat wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:48 am
SilverGirl wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:34 am
I own a private preschool and we are contemplating the inevitable. I do plan to pay my staff provided parents pay me. I am thinking of charging 50 percent tuition during the closure and taking a loss. Trust me I will not make any profit at all. I have many other costs that will still need to be paid. This is a nightmare.
Agreed - if you do take in 50% tuition and everyone remains enrolled you will likely 'only' lose 10-20% for any closed months.
Then there are the facts that many will just disenroll and/or not pay so the losses will be much greater if you continue to pay staff.
Consider reviewing your insurance for sections on business interruption and/or forced closure due to health issues unrelated to your operations.
Thank you for the thoughts, our insurance has a clause and will not pay unless we are shut down for a confirmed case. Not helpful. We do plan to offer to coordinate services between our staff and enrolled families for care during any shortage, and families would just sign a liability waiver that we have them do normally when they get babysitting services. In this case the families would not pay us and we would not pay the staff.

Maybe this is not a good solution, we don't know, these are unchartered waters.
I am hearing similar feedback that most child care centers do not have the business interruption rider that we had purchased.
Perhaps collect your recent detailed data as you can request delays on any SBA loans for this issue.
You can also apply and receive a specific SBA loan for operations affected by the outbreak.

There are many actions you can take within your center during this outbreak while you are open - just a few include:
take all children's temps at the door, restrict parents to a vestibule drop-off, restrict all carry in toys and objects, lead each child to a 'fun' handwashing event once inside, wipe each center touch point every 2 hours, ,etc
Good luck with your plans and I hope this fairs reasonably well with you.

stoptothink
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by stoptothink » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:59 am

My MIL watches my son (and a neighbor's daughter), we pay her more than going rate. We are both at home now, so no income for MIL (we paid her upfront for March and are not asking for a refund). She basically begged us to continue watching them because they need the money and then went and told the neighbor at this time that she couldn't watch her daughter because she had to watch my wife's sister's 3 kids (for free of course, and wife's sister doesn't work). So done with the economic outpatient care to my in-laws.

bikesandbeers
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by bikesandbeers » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:08 am

We had a state mandated closure.
Our daycare is closed at least through April 4. They have said there will be no refund for March and they expect everyone will bring their checks the first day they are open again. No idea what they will be doing if they don't open again for a while.
They also put in the message that there is a waiting list of other families if you want to withdraw your kids.

aceoperations
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by aceoperations » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:59 am

Our Montessori preschool is still open but we chose to keep our 2 kids are home. Several public schools are closed in our city. We are still paying our monthly cost of $3k, but if the school were to close, it would be nice if they provided a 20-25% reduction in cost. I would like to keep the teachers employed for sure, but childcare is just expensive.

joe3411
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by joe3411 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:17 pm

Our daycare closed as mandated by the state. The daycare quickly "amended" their agreement with the parents to say everyone needs to pay 50% tuition while they are closed. While I'm sure I have no legal obligation to pay, if I don't pay they will give my kid's spot to somebody else. I'm not sure there's much I can do here except pay the half fee for no services.

RJC
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by RJC » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:47 pm

Will these daycares get the grants from the government? I'd like to continue to pay for the teachers (if they are still on payroll) yet the thought of these companies getting full tuition plus grants give me pause.

mnsportsgeek
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by mnsportsgeek » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:51 pm

Our daycare is still open, but if it did close I would continue paying as long as I was still getting paid.

Prahasaurus
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Prahasaurus » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:54 pm

helwardman wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Our daycare has closed for at least the next month. We got "store credit" on the unused portion of what we paid for March, to put toward tuition when they open back up.
Not sure where you live, but highly unlikely they will open anytime soon. This happened in many European countries, as well. Schools were closed for 3-4 weeks at first. But then they were cancelled through the summer.

It may depend on where you live, as some areas will be very hard hit, others will not be as bad. But start making contingency plans for the daycare to remain closed for many months.

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8foot7
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by 8foot7 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:59 pm

joe3411 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:17 pm
Our daycare closed as mandated by the state. The daycare quickly "amended" their agreement with the parents to say everyone needs to pay 50% tuition while they are closed. While I'm sure I have no legal obligation to pay, if I don't pay they will give my kid's spot to somebody else. I'm not sure there's much I can do here except pay the half fee for no services.
I’d call that bluff. No kid can take a spot at a closed daycare, and I’d love to see them actually tell you that you can’t come back when they reopen. I suspect there will be regulations around this soon. I don’t see much difference between profiteering off hand sanitizer and masks, and threatening to withhold future child care because you didn’t pay a service provider while they were closed and not providing service.
Last edited by 8foot7 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

supalong52
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by supalong52 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:01 pm

We have a nanny and she's not allowed to come anymore. We don't want her to be in distress so we calculated the amount of UI benefits she'd get per week over 26 weeks and we're going to give her a lump sum to make her whole. Then we'll pay the rest of her personal time and then she'll apply for UI benefits. If the stay home order is revoked then the prorated amount remaining will be used towards future services. There's a bit more, but that's the gist. Worst case is only about $5k to us, but a total lifeline for her.

Thegame14
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Thegame14 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:22 pm

both of mine both closed and I expect a credit for future tuition.

motorcyclesarecool
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by motorcyclesarecool » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:52 pm

My coworker is being charged full freight throughout the state-mandated closure. There’s nothing in the contract covering this. I urge him to contact the state attorney general’s office but he won’t. But he will complain.

In our case, the state is continuing to let the subsidies flow, and has made it even easier to claim unemployment. I can see that the business has fixed costs, and I can even see a kindly worded letter explaining what those fixed costs are, how much the day care can absorb, and how much it needs parents to kick in in order to be able to reopen; I’ve not heard of any daycare who is charging parents while closed taking the high road. Instead, some of them seem to want to profiteer knowing that it’s hard to find daycare under normal conditions.
Understand that choosing an HDHP is very much a "red pill" approach. Most would rather pay higher premiums for a $20 copay per visit. They will think you weird for choosing an HSA.

femmefire
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by femmefire » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:09 pm

I agree with previous posters. Our daycare has closed voluntary for at least 30 days. It is a public university run daycare and I expect that the closure will be longer as the students will not be returning to campus. We will have to find alternative care for our two kids which is most likely going to be expensive. If they were only closed for a few weeks we could swing it, but we don’t have the resources to pay for two child care bills for two kids. The irony is that they want to make sure students are payed during this time, but they want to foot the bill to the parents, many of which are students themselves.

smitcat
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:15 pm

RJC wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:47 pm
Will these daycares get the grants from the government? I'd like to continue to pay for the teachers (if they are still on payroll) yet the thought of these companies getting full tuition plus grants give me pause.
There has been no indication of grants or help other then the SBA disaster loans I posted above so far.
SBA disaster loan status - as of now no one has been able to get a completed application in so far let alone an advisor response.
This is based upon the 3 dozen or so centers we are aware of.

smitcat
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:20 pm

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:52 pm
My coworker is being charged full freight throughout the state-mandated closure. There’s nothing in the contract covering this. I urge him to contact the state attorney general’s office but he won’t. But he will complain.

In our case, the state is continuing to let the subsidies flow, and has made it even easier to claim unemployment. I can see that the business has fixed costs, and I can even see a kindly worded letter explaining what those fixed costs are, how much the day care can absorb, and how much it needs parents to kick in in order to be able to reopen; I’ve not heard of any daycare who is charging parents while closed taking the high road. Instead, some of them seem to want to profiteer knowing that it’s hard to find daycare under normal conditions.
Many of the childcare centers in our area are open and now serving many of the folks that have no where else to go - police, nurse, firemen, network repair, electric service , water service, etc.
Enrollments are down in all to a point where fixed costs are not covered so each week is a losing proposition.
The ones we are most aware of are not charging parents full tuition (or none at all) even if they do not come to the center even though they are still open.

smitcat
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:23 pm

Prahasaurus wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:54 pm
helwardman wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Our daycare has closed for at least the next month. We got "store credit" on the unused portion of what we paid for March, to put toward tuition when they open back up.
Not sure where you live, but highly unlikely they will open anytime soon. This happened in many European countries, as well. Schools were closed for 3-4 weeks at first. But then they were cancelled through the summer.

It may depend on where you live, as some areas will be very hard hit, others will not be as bad. But start making contingency plans for the daycare to remain closed for many months.
In our area our childcare centers are still mostly open - also now catering to all the folks out there taking care of us during this virus outbreak: nurse, Dr, police, firemen, electric service, water service , etc.

Mako
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Mako » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:31 pm

Ours is open, and if they close they will be charging full cost. This was clear in the contract, so whatever. There isn’t a big shortage in my area though, so if this happens I can see people quitting and going elsewhere.

pkay
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by pkay » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:21 pm

Our thought is this: As long as DW and I are still getting paid, we will continue to pay our kids daycare through it’s closure bc the center has made it clear that it intends to keep paying their staff during closure. The workers also need to be paid too. We should do whatever we can do help.

Pghbuckeye
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Pghbuckeye » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:25 am

Our contract states similarly that tuition is due regardless of attendance. Our operator has been very open about communications and had intended to keep the facility open initially, but when the state closed them, was quick to communicate with us. Our state was a 2 week shutdown (1 week in..) and they have waived all fees for those first 2 weeks. I'm pretty much in agreement with others that as long as they are paying their workers, I'm OK to support our daycare during this time assuming we have the means. Should our situation change, we may have to revisit this.

alfaspider
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by alfaspider » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:31 am

Ours has "urged" us to keep paying tuition (which we may monthly). We will pay April tuition (assuming I'm still employed), but May will be a tough pill to swallow if they have not reopened.

mneumann
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by mneumann » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:27 pm

Ours is open but we have made the decision to keep the kids at home as of today, although it's tough with both of us working at home and unsure about at least one job not being cut off in the long term.

We are still expected to pay, but have been told we can cancel with 2 weeks notice and then re enroll afterwards as they will ensure there is space. We offered to instead pay them 50% tuition for the balance of our work from home arrangement with the ability to drop the kids off for a few hours 1 day a week if absolutely necessary (its possible we could have a day with back to back to back calls where we cant give the kids attention, but would really prefer not to leave the house unless absolutely necessary). Supposed to hear back with their response soon.

TigerNest
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by TigerNest » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:48 pm

Ours is still charging the full cost while closed: $800 / week for our 2 kids.

It's an in-home daycare in New York City with 10-12 kids. The owner is saying they're not technically closed and is waiting for guidance from the state, and one child was still going as of last week.

Some of the other parents are starting to feel financial strain, and noting that there are other daycares in the area that are not charging or have reduced rates.

My wife and I are lucky to both remain employed for now while working remotely, so we plan to continue paying. I do worry about how much of it is making it to the providers though, since they're hourly employees. The owner has not been very transparent about her plans yet, though given what the last 10 days have looked like it's understandable. These are very difficult times for small business owners.

Blue456
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Blue456 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:47 am

dm200 wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:19 pm
Not in this situation, but I believe many jurisdictions (mine is) have temporarily liberalized rules for home daycare. There also might be some other parents that are not working their regular jobs because of this Corona Virus mess - and they might be willing to watch or take care of your children.
Mine did the same for health care workers. And it is horrible idea. Just shows me how much this country is not taking this issue seriously....

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galving
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by galving » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:55 am

ddurrett896 wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:37 pm
Mine sent packets of material home. Figured that was there way or saying we are keeping the tuition.
Same here.
I actually provided feedback that I understood that school tuition was a fixed cost and not to try and BS that the virtual learning + packets was somehow equivalent.
It would just be a better message. . . we're doing all we can, want people to stay safe, and need to continue to provide for the staff or there won't be a school to return to in the future.

njdealguy
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by njdealguy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:09 am

Our daycare remains open but since hardly anyone is still sending child, a plan was announced that April tuition will be reduced by 40% and reimbursed in future months in the form of a $100 credit per month towards tuition until fully reimbursed. Doesnt feel right to be reimbursed would be fine with just the discounted tuition (Hopefully enough to cover fixed costs)

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Cobra Commander
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Cobra Commander » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:14 am

Home daycare is still open although they urged non-essential people to pull their children out. We pulled our kids out and are staggering work shifts to alternate watching the children and we got a 10% discount for April. Every year we get 2 weeks of vacation where we only pay 50% so if the daycare closes we get to use those two weeks. Uncertain what happens after that.

She does a good job with the kids and she's had the three assistants with her for some time who are also good with the kids so I don't want their income interrupted and for them to take other jobs. It's tough eating the daycare bill while not receiving services but she does a great job and I wouldn't want her or the assistants to incur a financial hardship. We will probably have to pull them out though if DW gets laid off as I don't think it will be easy for her to get another job right now.

joe3411
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by joe3411 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:54 am

Update- I spoke to Office of Consumer Affairs, State Atty General, etc and no one had a good answer.
I finally found the answer on the state of MA website under early childhood care.
Basically, it said if the existing contract made no mention of closing due to state mandate, that one can't be charged. However, it went on to say that daycare facilities can keep charging in order to "hold your spot." So I could certainly not pay, but the facility would not be required to keep the kids' spots. The waiting list is so long they often don't add anyone to it.

With that in mind, we will be paying the 50% charge until they open back up.

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8foot7
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:00 am

Our daycare said yesterday we could keep our children at home and pay only 50% (they are still open), but in order to withdraw and pay no tuition they want people to honor the two week withdrawal notice period, although they will allow 50% tuition during that notice period. There was a line like "you'll have to go through the enrollment process again later if you withdraw" which I assume means that you have to pay a registration fee to join again, but on balance since they charge that to everyone in the summer anyway I'm not really sure what the difference is.

Altogether I thought this was a more than fair approach when they remain open and ready to serve. Very considerate of them.

...so considerate, in fact, that my wife and I discussed this more and we decided in the event they closed because of a state regulation, we would (a) let them keep whatever "unearned" tuition we had already paid and then (b) provide two weeks' worth of full tuition to the facility, and if they decided to close on their own volition when they weren't mandated to close, we would provide one weeks' worth of tuition. We both work in sectors that have been hit hard by current events and so are conserving cash to navigate a downturn in case of job issues, so we simply cannot commit to paying over a thousand bucks a month for a service we're not getting, but also feel a need to spread the love as much as we can and take care of the great staff as we can.

minimalistmarc
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by minimalistmarc » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 am

TheGreyingDuke wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:22 pm
dm200 wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:19 pm
Not in this situation, but I believe many jurisdictions (mine is) have temporarily liberalized rules for home daycare. There also might be some other parents that are not working their regular jobs because of this Corona Virus mess - and they might be willing to watch or take care of your children.
Bad idea, kids need to be kept separated just like adults. I know this is an incredible hardship for many folks, we are on fulltime care of our grandkids these days.
Makes me shudder to hear this. Grandparents must not spend any time with their grandkids in the current Covid era unless they want to expose themselves.

In the U.K. the government has explicitly stated this.

Be safe, stop caring for your grandkids !

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bostondan
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by bostondan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 am

Our daycare initially closed voluntarily, which was reasonable, but there is now a statewide mandated closure of childcare centers. There are some emergency centers allowed to stay open for essential workers, but our daycare is not one of those.

We were told that we must continue to pay full tuition throughout the closure. If we do not pay, we were told that our spot will be given to someone else. Our daycare has a >1 year waiting list, and our children seem to really like it, so we would not take the risk of losing our spot.

In addition to continuing to pay for daycare, we are now paying $20/hour to have someone watch our children so that my wife and I can continue to work. As a physician, I cannot be out of work right now. Our salaries will also be reduced due to cancellation of elective procedures and most of our non-urgent outpatient visits. So we will be paying double childcare with reduced salary. Will we starve? Obviously not, but it's not ideal.

At the end of this pandemic there will be many debates regarding who should take the financial hit for situations like this and many others. Is it my responsibility to float money to the daycare because of this crisis? You could make the argument that it is in my best interest to help it stay in business, or you could say that I'm not receiving the service I pay for so should not have to pay.

What about restaurants? If we go weekly to our local restaurant and order $100 of food, but now cannot due to COVID-19, should I continue to give them $100/week if I want to continue being allowed to eat there when they reopen? If I don't, they might go out of business. Yet continuing to give them money feels odd since I'm not longer receiving the service.

Should we just let the government bail out everyone who suffered and not require individuals to be directly burdened by the cost? I guess that would be ideal, but I'm not sure we can trust the government to bail out the institutions that are important to us individually, such as our children's daycare, so need to take on the cost ourselves for now.
Last edited by bostondan on Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

RJC
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by RJC » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:22 am

bostondan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 am
Our daycare initially closed voluntarily, which was reasonable, but there is now a statewide mandated closure of childcare centers. There are some emergency centers allowed to stay open for essential workers, but our daycare is not one of those.

We were told that we must continue to pay full tuition throughout the closure. If we do not pay, we were told that our spot will be given to someone else. Our daycare has a >1 year waiting list, and our children seem to really like it, so we would not take the risk of losing our spot.

In addition to continuing to pay for daycare, we are now paying $20/hour to have someone watch our children so that my wife and I can continue to work. As a physician, I cannot be out of work right now. Our salaries will also be reduced due to cancellation of elective procedures and most of our non-urgent outpatient visits. So we will be paying double childcare with reduced salary. Will we starve? Obviously not, but it's not ideal.

At the end of this pandemic there will be many debates regarding who should take the financial hit for situations like this and many others. Is it my responsibility to float money to the daycare even because of this crisis? You could make the argument that it is in my best interest to help it stay in business, or you could say that I'm not receiving the service I pay for so should not have to pay.

What about restaurants? If we go weekly to our local restaurant and order $100 of food, but now cannot due to COVID-19, should I continue to give them $100/week if I want to continue being allowed to eat there when they reopen? If I don't, they might go out of business. Yet continuing to give them money feels odd since I'm not longer receiving the service.

Should we just let the government bail out everyone who suffered and not require individuals to be directly burdened by the cost? I guess that would be ideal, but I'm not sure we can trust the government to bail out the institutions that are important to us individually, such as our children's daycare, so need to take on the cost ourselves for now.
We are going through the same thing and feel like we are stuck in the middle. We want the daycare to succeed; however, it feels odd to continue to pay the full tuition while our kids are at home...

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8foot7
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am

I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation. There is obviously some cost reduction in not having kids in the facility and I would expect at the very least to get all of those savings applied to tuition during a closure.

tibbitts
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by tibbitts » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:33 am

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:50 pm
As far as the large airlines etc not having cash, well, I think it's unconscionable and the management teams should all be fired. No joke.
The idea that the likes of United and American will run out of cash in weeks right now after a near-decade of billions of profit and free cash flow is simply unacceptable.
I understand your feelings - on a personal level we all keep some emergency cash. But if management of a business was found to have money sitting in cash not earning anything significant - when that was not a standard industry practice - there would probably be a scandal, and management would be fired for not optimizing shareholder value. Even here on Bogleheads, we've had posts about people not having a cash emergeny fund due to zero or negative net rates, and just saying they are willing to take the hit on selling equities during a downturn.

So either way, in your model the management team gets fired. I guess that's how they justify those giant serverance packages.

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bostondan
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by bostondan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:38 am

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation.
My initial gut instinct was to agree with you.

However, how do you expect the daycare to remain financially solvent? I assume the employees do not make much money compared to me, so it isn't like they're making a huge profit off this situation. Until the government announces some type of financial solution for these situations, which they might never do, I'm not sure what the right solution is.

I would have preferred a 50% reduction in tuition, but even that might not be sustainable for our daycare. They charge a reasonable price considering it is located in downtown Boston, so they certainly have never price gouged before.

My next thought was that my employer (hospital) or wife's employer (law firm) should consider paying for our excess childcare so that we can continue to come to work, which is in the employer's benefit (since we are now paying double - closed daycare AND temporary nanny). However, both our employers have made it clear that the companies are taking massive financial hits right now and there is really no extra money to pay for childcare without significant salary cuts (which might happen anyway).

So, I don't know what the solution is. I don't think there is one.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

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simplesimon
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by simplesimon » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:40 am

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation. There is obviously some cost reduction in not having kids in the facility and I would expect at the very least to get all of those savings applied to tuition during a closure.
Not sure about your area, but at least in Boston there is a serious daycare shortage as demonstrated by these massive waitlists. I'm in a similar situation as bostondan. I completely agree with you on the principle but one may be searching at least a year for alternative daycare. It's just not practical.

Supply and demand in action.

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8foot7
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:40 am

bostondan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:38 am
8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation.
My initial gut instinct was to agree with you.

However, how do you expect the daycare to remain financially solvent? I assume the employees do not make much money compared to me, so it isn't like they're making a huge profit off this situation. Until the government announces some type of financial solution for these situations, which they might never do, I'm not sure what the right solution is.

I would have preferred a 50% reduction in tuition, but even that might not be sustainable for our daycare. They charge a reasonable price considering it is located in downtown Boston, so they certainly have never price gouged before.

My next thought was that my employer (hospital) or wife's employer (law firm) should consider paying for our excess childcare so that we can continue to come to work, which is in the employer's benefit (since we are now paying double - closed daycare AND temporary nanny). However, both our employers have made it clear that the companies are taking massive financial hits right now and there is really no extra money to pay for childcare without significant salary cuts (which might happen anyway).

So, I don't know what the solution is. I don't think there is one.
Well I guess I would say if they have waitlist then they have plenty of people waiting to take my place so they will be fine.
I'd also reiterate there must be some cost savings in not having kids in the facility (not ordering food, less cleaning, no transportation/buses/field trips, less consumables, fewer supplies), so not passing that on to customers in a time of crisis-- well, is that not profiteering? If you continue to charge full freight but don't have to offer service then your margins increase, do they not?

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8foot7
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:41 am

simplesimon wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:40 am
8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation. There is obviously some cost reduction in not having kids in the facility and I would expect at the very least to get all of those savings applied to tuition during a closure.
Not sure about your area, but at least in Boston there is a serious daycare shortage as demonstrated by these massive waitlists. I'm in a similar situation as bostondan. I completely agree with you on the principle but one may be searching at least a year for alternative daycare. It's just not practical.

Supply and demand in action.
Fair enough. Perhaps my bluff is called in that environment. I just try to operate in a principled way.

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bostondan
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by bostondan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:56 am

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:40 am
Well I guess I would say if they have waitlist then they have plenty of people waiting to take my place so they will be fine.
I'd also reiterate there must be some cost savings in not having kids in the facility (not ordering food, less cleaning, no transportation/buses/field trips, less consumables, fewer supplies), so not passing that on to customers in a time of crisis-- well, is that not profiteering? If you continue to charge full freight but don't have to offer service then your margins increase, do they not?
Having a waitlist only means they will be fine once they can open again. It does not mean they will remain solvent if this closure goes on for too long.

However, your point about cost savings is valid and I agree those costs should be passed on to families.

Again, I'm not sure of the right answer and don't think there is one.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

Mako
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Mako » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:02 am

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation. There is obviously some cost reduction in not having kids in the facility and I would expect at the very least to get all of those savings applied to tuition during a closure.
In my state daycares are not required to close, but mine has just decided it will only accept children of essential employees for the time being, so they are closed to us, and I am still expected to pay. As I noted above somewhere, my daycare had it in the contract that full tuition would be due regardless of closures. Of course there's no way I could have bargained otherwise, and no one probably ever expects that part of the contract to apply, but I agreed to it.

So, I begrudgingly accept that I am required to pay as long as I stay with them, but I am giving my two weeks notice and going elsewhere. While I understand these are difficult times, I'm not interested in paying for no service while they are still capable of providing service. On the other hand if the state had required closure I'd be 100% understanding. Fortunately there are not large wait lists in my area so I have options.

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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:14 am

simplesimon wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:40 am
8foot7 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
I can only speak for myself but if a daycare extorted full tuition out of me during this time using the threat of the waitlist, I'd be searching for an alternative daycare immediately. I won't do business with people like that. My decision may not matter but it's the principle of the situation. There is obviously some cost reduction in not having kids in the facility and I would expect at the very least to get all of those savings applied to tuition during a closure.
Not sure about your area, but at least in Boston there is a serious daycare shortage as demonstrated by these massive waitlists. I'm in a similar situation as bostondan. I completely agree with you on the principle but one may be searching at least a year for alternative daycare. It's just not practical.

Supply and demand in action.
I take no sides in whether or not someone should pay for partial or full services if the center is closed - all areas and contracts are different and these are unusual times.
My opinion is that they should not charge but opinions are worth nothing....
But please do note...
- if you do have a binding contract and you do not pay they can take that claim to court rather easily.
- if you return they could charge any increased rate they want if you break the contract
- if you want to return they will not have to accept you back
Make decisions based on as many facts about your specific area and contract that you can possibly collect.

femmefire
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by femmefire » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:00 pm

It’s good to help others and feel a sense of loyalty and community. If we weren’t a student family already with a tight budget, I’d have a more generous spirit and just pay full price because I could. Although in my case I don’t think they actually need my help since the workers are state employees with a huge amount of PTO.

I’m generally curious though to those who feel a sense of responsibility towards the daycare. If the tables were turned and you lost your job, would the provider not ask you to leave if you couldn’t pay for a month? Would the employees watch your kids on a Saturday so you could apply for jobs? I don’t think mine would but then maybe I’d be surprised.

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8foot7
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:13 pm

Our daycare just offered to make everyone a take-home dinner on Friday, whether one's kids are currently going or not. Stuff like that makes me feel like part of a family and want to do more than just treat things like pure business transactions.

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Re: Daycare closed

Post by femmefire » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:54 pm

After a couple of incidents, I don’t like my daycare very much and have been planning my exit for a while now. Perhaps my experience is coloring my opinion. I hope the next daycare has a community that makes me feel similar to other posters.

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Go Blue 99
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Go Blue 99 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:05 am

Our closed daycare (local chain) announced they are doing full refunds for Infants and Toddlers, and 50% tuition for the older classes (where our child is). They are going to do some distance learning to justify the 50% tuition. They are also waiving all advanced notice policies, so people can withdraw immediately and stop getting billed.

Teague
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Teague » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:58 am

Having a close relative in the daycare industry for decades, I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience. Not only are the workers low-paid, but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat, e.g. a hospital based facility that cares for the kids of healthcare workers. It seems often these folks do this as a calling rather than as a genuinely viable business.
Semper Augustus

smitcat
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:22 am

Teague wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:58 am
Having a close relative in the daycare industry for decades, I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience. Not only are the workers low-paid, but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat, e.g. a hospital based facility that cares for the kids of healthcare workers. It seems often these folks do this as a calling rather than as a genuinely viable business.
Here is some data FWIW -
"I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience."
Some barely break even but others make a decent margin even with capacities less than stellar.

"but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat"
Some are subsidized by various programs, and some go out of business after losing money. The vast majority of larger centers do make a profit and that profit varies greatly much like any other business's out there.

Teague
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by Teague » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:24 am

smitcat wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:22 am
Teague wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:58 am
Having a close relative in the daycare industry for decades, I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience. Not only are the workers low-paid, but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat, e.g. a hospital based facility that cares for the kids of healthcare workers. It seems often these folks do this as a calling rather than as a genuinely viable business.
Here is some data FWIW -
"I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience."
Some barely break even but others make a decent margin even with capacities less than stellar.

"but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat"
Some are subsidized by various programs, and some go out of business after losing money. The vast majority of larger centers do make a profit and that profit varies greatly much like any other business's out there.
Good to know!
Semper Augustus

smitcat
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Re: Daycare closed

Post by smitcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:27 am

Teague wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:24 am
smitcat wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:22 am
Teague wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:58 am
Having a close relative in the daycare industry for decades, I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience. Not only are the workers low-paid, but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat, e.g. a hospital based facility that cares for the kids of healthcare workers. It seems often these folks do this as a calling rather than as a genuinely viable business.
Here is some data FWIW -
"I'd just offer that most of these places, even the larger ones, barely break even in my experience."
Some barely break even but others make a decent margin even with capacities less than stellar.

"but they are barely profitable for the owners. Some have to be subsidized on top of tuition to remain afloat"
Some are subsidized by various programs, and some go out of business after losing money. The vast majority of larger centers do make a profit and that profit varies greatly much like any other business's out there.
Good to know!
FWIW - I am typing this now from a moderately sized childcare center (10,000 sq feet).

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