Protection Against Home Intruders

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willthrill81
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:46 pm

OldBallCoach wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:18 am
Now as far as actually shooting someone think hard and long...we had a friend that shot and killed an intruder in his home in Montana...and Montana is a pretty lay back state..but the investigation, the paper work, the attorneys and the counseling for him due to his guilt was huge. He told me I should have just given the guy 50K in cash and driven him home it would have been easier.
Good advice. When we got our carry permits, the nice but clearly tough gentleman who was doing the training told us about a job he had as a prison guard. He was in a corner tower, guarding the space between two security fences. During a breakout, an inmate got past the first fence and was trying to get past the second. This gentleman told him via loudspeaker to immediately stop or he would be shot. The inmate flipped him off and continued trying to get through the fence, so the gentleman shot and killed him on the spot. He said that he had no regrets and did what he had to do, but he still sees the guy's face every day. Throw legal issues into the mix, which there certainly will be on some level if someone is shot since the intruder bleeding on the ground is suddenly doing a really good imitation of a victim, and it's not a light thing. We are determined to do whatever we have to protect ourselves and especially our young daughter, but defending with deadly force is a very big deal.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

JMitchell2020
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by JMitchell2020 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:18 pm

PoppyA wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 pm
Lots of great suggestions here! I would add; be aware of the shrubs and trees around your home. Overgrown plants often give intruders cover from being seen.

In my area, most break ins occur mid morning. The thought being the homes are empty when people are at work/school.

The film OP was talking about is often used in hurricane/ tornado areas to protect from flying debris.
Your area is not unique. If you check articles on the web regarding such stats, they claim that most burglaries occur during daylight hours when thieves figure the occupants are away at work or school.

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Cubicle
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Cubicle » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 am

OldBallCoach wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:18 am
DW went tback to pool and got out our DeerSlayer and dispatched said drone with great success
Does your wife have a sister of similar attitude & skill? I like long walks on the beach, can cook, great with money, no kids.......
__________________________

I absolutely understand the guilt & consequences of using deadly force. But if the mere sight of a gun doesn't scare an intruder away, I've got to be ready to kill or be killed. I wouldn't anticipate (or hope) them getting cash & goods would satisfy them if they haven't retreated at that point.

An armed home owner would absolutely scare me away. If this whole BogleHeads thing doesn't work out.

sawhorse
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by sawhorse » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:14 am

Here's a tip that I have never tried but makes sense. Put your car keys next to your bed. If you hear a suspicious noise, hit the alarm button to make it go off. The noise will likely be enough to startle the burglars away. Naturally it won't work if you're in an apartment, don't have a car, or don't have a car with a key-controlled alarm.

I imagine that simply flipping on a light might be worth a try as it could drive burglars away.

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unclescrooge
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by unclescrooge » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 am

sawhorse wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:14 am
Here's a tip that I have never tried but makes sense. Put your car keys next to your bed. If you hear a suspicious noise, hit the alarm button to make it go off. The noise will likely be enough to startle the burglars away. Naturally it won't work if you're in an apartment, don't have a car, or don't have a car with a key-controlled alarm.

I imagine that simply flipping on a light might be worth a try as it could drive burglars away.
Good idea. I'll use the broadcast feature on my Android phone to transmit my voice throughout the house via Google home.

Mr. Rumples
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Mr. Rumples » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:01 am

If you have teenagers, think twice about a gun for an intruder. In just the past three years, parents have shot and killed their children by mistake in NV, CO and OH.

While not perfect, when we lived in a high crime area, we had a fence of prickly pear cactus (Opuntia cactus). Those things are brutal.

yohac
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by yohac » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:54 am

I haven't seen a single comment about non-lethal self defense. Maybe those are all completely useless, but if I'm going to screw up fighting off an intruder, I'd prefer not leaving someone dead.

OldBallCoach
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by OldBallCoach » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:37 am

yohac wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:54 am
I haven't seen a single comment about non-lethal self defense. Maybe those are all completely useless, but if I'm going to screw up fighting off an intruder, I'd prefer not leaving someone dead.
I think someone mentioned Bear Spray as an idea...I would think in the right setting that could be good...also a good Louisville Slugger can do wonders...be sure to keep the label up and swing thru the perp....might not be much time to hard up your swing but I think its ok anyway...spray em, hit em and run like hell...

BSBHead
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by BSBHead » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:59 am

We had a dog chase off intruders one time. That was perfect.

My list in order of priority:
1. Dog
2. Security doors - expensive, but impossible to break through
3. Alarm system - for window entries
4. Alarm system signs clearly posted outside
5. Dog bowls outside - even if you don’t have a dog, this will be a deterrent
6. Firearms - given they are locked up in my house, I’m not sure they’d be effective. I have pepper spray more readily available. That plus a blunt object would be effective.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by furwut » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:42 am


OldBallCoach
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by OldBallCoach » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:46 am

OldBallCoach wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:37 am
yohac wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:54 am
I haven't seen a single comment about non-lethal self defense. Maybe those are all completely useless, but if I'm going to screw up fighting off an intruder, I'd prefer not leaving someone dead.
I think someone mentioned Bear Spray as an idea...I would think in the right setting that could be good...also a good Louisville Slugger can do wonders...be sure to keep the label up and swing thru the perp....might not be much time to warm up your swing but I think its ok anyway...spray em, hit em and run like hell...

andypanda
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by andypanda » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:00 am

"In my area, most break ins occur mid morning. The thought being the homes are empty when people are at work/school."

More than likely it's because the junkie has been up partying all night, or almost all night, and needs a fix.

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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by JAZZISCOOL » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am

tooluser wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:21 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:38 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 pm
I hang my firing range targets near the entrances so it's the first thing they see.
I did not see this mentioned yet: at least some alarm systems have "panic" buttons you can install near where you are sleeping, or wherever you like. You can set it for normal or silent alarm. Its triggering will generally be treated more seriously than motion or entry sensor alarms, which are more prone to user error.
I've also heard of people keeping their car keys on the nightstand and hitting the car panic button if they hear intruders.

Not possible for everyone, but a gated community helps to some degree. However, there are ways to get through the gates anyway but it does keep some riff-raff out. In my area in non-gated communities, it seems like many people park their cars in their driveways (with valuables) and then forget to lock them and the hoodlums come out at night to steal stuff. This is an easy fix.

I also wondered if getting a tazer would be useful (vs. a gun.) Not sure where you buy one of those or if you need a license.

A Sheriff's deputy once told me he thinks a dog is the best crime deterrent as others have mentioned.

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Prudence
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Prudence » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:30 am

Regarding ADT, does the homeowner pay anything for installation including electrical wiring for outside motion sensors and cameras etc.? While there is a contract, does the homeowner need to perform any maintenance at all (like fixing stuff and changing batteries, bulbs, connections etc. etc.) or does ADT come out and do what needs to be done? At my age, I am trying to avoid performing any work to keep the house and yard in working condition.

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fizxman
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by fizxman » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:00 am

We have two Nest cameras, both inside our ranch house. One camera is pointed in such a way it can see the front door, side door, and down the hallway towards the back of the house where we have a sliding glass door. As soon as the person exits the room with the sliding door, they'd be on camera. The second camera is in our front window, next to the front door, pointing out to the street where we park our cars. We got this camera because the wheels on my wife's car were stolen one night. In the same window, we have a large cardboard face of my best friend, the kind of thing you see at basketball games (https://buildahead.com/fan-takes-big-heads-top/). Basically, when you walk up to our front door and look at the goofy face, you'll look right at the camera. It's only there to try and get people to look towards the camera.

Also, when we go away for a few days or weeks, we call our local police station, tell them we're leaving and they'll send someone out to check on our house while we're away. Basically they just walk around the house to make sure nothing happened while we're gone. We also tell our neighbors too.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:07 am

Mr. Rumples wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:01 am
If you have teenagers, think twice about a gun for an intruder. In just the past three years, parents have shot and killed their children by mistake in NV, CO and OH.

While not perfect, when we lived in a high crime area, we had a fence of prickly pear cactus (Opuntia cactus). Those things are brutal.
Hawaii locals plant decorative flowering Bouganvillia shrubs along their fences and boundaries. The long branches filled with thorns deter most living things.

j :happy
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Sandtrap
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:09 am

JAZZISCOOL wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am
A Sheriff's deputy once told me he thinks a dog is the best crime deterrent as others have mentioned.
In lieu of a dog, then. . . . guard cats.

Intruders will likely flee, either from the claws, or the incessant meowing and pestering for food and head scratches. :twisted:

j :happy
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whomever
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by whomever » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:30 am

"I haven't seen a single comment about non-lethal self defense. Maybe those are all completely useless, but if I'm going to screw up fighting off an intruder, I'd prefer not leaving someone dead."

I'm guessing you are referring to pepper spray and tasers.

I mentioned upthread 'Have a plan for what you will do while waiting for the police'. A little googling will show that 911 responses average several minutes, and obviously that means some are longer than the average.

There's nothing wrong with pepper sprays, but you need to have a plan for what do do after spraying/tasing an attacker, because neither of those offer more than temporary incapacitation - where temporary is not several minutes. When the police use them, they use that momentary incapacitation to cuff the suspect, but that's not a practical option for most homeowners. So you need to be thinking what you'll do after spraying/tasing the attacker. For example, can you run to a neighbor's house for refuge? Get in your car and drive away? That's going to be an individual decision, but it's something you want to have thought through ahead of time.

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Ramjet
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Ramjet » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:41 am

If someone has broken into my house and is likely armed do I want to

A) gather my family, lock the door, call 911, and pray they do not enter or attack

or

B) gather my family, lock the door, call 911, and have the opportunity to defend myself and my family with a firearm if someone enters?

When it comes to my family I will opt to not be helpless every single time

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Ramjet
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Ramjet » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:47 am

sawhorse wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:14 am
Here's a tip that I have never tried but makes sense. Put your car keys next to your bed. If you hear a suspicious noise, hit the alarm button to make it go off. The noise will likely be enough to startle the burglars away. Naturally it won't work if you're in an apartment, don't have a car, or don't have a car with a key-controlled alarm.

I imagine that simply flipping on a light might be worth a try as it could drive burglars away.
Good idea!

smitcat
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:53 am

whomever wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:30 am
"I haven't seen a single comment about non-lethal self defense. Maybe those are all completely useless, but if I'm going to screw up fighting off an intruder, I'd prefer not leaving someone dead."

I'm guessing you are referring to pepper spray and tasers.

I mentioned upthread 'Have a plan for what you will do while waiting for the police'. A little googling will show that 911 responses average several minutes, and obviously that means some are longer than the average.

There's nothing wrong with pepper sprays, but you need to have a plan for what do do after spraying/tasing an attacker, because neither of those offer more than temporary incapacitation - where temporary is not several minutes. When the police use them, they use that momentary incapacitation to cuff the suspect, but that's not a practical option for most homeowners. So you need to be thinking what you'll do after spraying/tasing the attacker. For example, can you run to a neighbor's house for refuge? Get in your car and drive away? That's going to be an individual decision, but it's something you want to have thought through ahead of time.
It is always better to retreat/flee if that is an option.
Most folks have realized that Disco defenses are very limited and have should not typically be used without a backup plan.
"Disco" defenses include: Blaring lights, smoke, loud noises, pepper sprays etc.
- Install perimeter deterrents
- Call for help if possible
- Always retreat/flee
- Utilize Disco defenses but only with a backup plan

When someone knowingly and purposely continues past all of these steps decide for yourself if you want to have a further alternative available and plan accordingly.

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willthrill81
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:16 am

whomever wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:30 am
"I haven't seen a single comment about non-lethal self defense. Maybe those are all completely useless, but if I'm going to screw up fighting off an intruder, I'd prefer not leaving someone dead."

I'm guessing you are referring to pepper spray and tasers.

I mentioned upthread 'Have a plan for what you will do while waiting for the police'. A little googling will show that 911 responses average several minutes, and obviously that means some are longer than the average.

There's nothing wrong with pepper sprays, but you need to have a plan for what do do after spraying/tasing an attacker, because neither of those offer more than temporary incapacitation - where temporary is not several minutes. When the police use them, they use that momentary incapacitation to cuff the suspect, but that's not a practical option for most homeowners. So you need to be thinking what you'll do after spraying/tasing the attacker. For example, can you run to a neighbor's house for refuge? Get in your car and drive away? That's going to be an individual decision, but it's something you want to have thought through ahead of time.
Indeed.

Also, pepper spray has no effect on some people, and it's quite easy to spray yourself. Tazer type devices usually require you to be extremely close to the attacker and may not work if the attacker has heavy clothing.

Occasionally, someone will ask something to the effect of what they can use as a means of self-defense that will be effective in a variety of situations without extensive training (e.g. months or longer). The answer is a firearm.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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willthrill81
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:19 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:53 am
- Always retreat/flee
That's far from realistic in many, probably most, home invasion scenarios, especially at night. You might be able to get out of a bedroom window in time, but that could easily require more time than you have and might require physical dexterity that you do not possess.

There are good reasons why most states do not impose a duty to retreat when you are in your home.

In many other situations (e.g. very large stores, outdoors), I agree with you that the 'Nike defense' is generally best, assuming that you have the physical ability to run reasonably well.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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BolderBoy
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by BolderBoy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:57 am

jabberwockOG wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:29 pm
Shooting an intruder, even inside your home and in righteous self defense, will almost certainly put you into a world of serious hassle, expense, and significant legal issues - civil and well as criminal risk/danger.
It depends on the state. Some states castle doctrines protect the homeowner from criminal liability but not civil liability and that could create a whole world of trouble, you are right.

Colorado was one of the first adopters of a real castle law in the 1980s and the press made a big deal of it by calling it the, "Make My Day" law. Ironically, Colorado did not add protection from civil liability until just a few years ago.

I think the bigger issue for someone who kills an intruder would be the psychological after effects.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

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BolderBoy
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by BolderBoy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 pm

Cubicle wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 am
An armed home owner would absolutely scare me away.
If the intruder isn't whacked out on drugs. The last two home invasion-type homeowner shootings that happened in Boulder, CO involved college kids who'd experimented with the wrong drugs. The homeowners quite literally were in fear of losing their lives.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by jabberwockOG » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 pm

BolderBoy wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:57 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:29 pm
Shooting an intruder, even inside your home and in righteous self defense, will almost certainly put you into a world of serious hassle, expense, and significant legal issues - civil and well as criminal risk/danger.
It depends on the state. Some states castle doctrines protect the homeowner from criminal liability but not civil liability and that could create a whole world of trouble, you are right.

Colorado was one of the first adopters of a real castle law in the 1980s and the press made a big deal of it by calling it the, "Make My Day" law. Ironically, Colorado did not add protection from civil liability until just a few years ago.

I think the bigger issue for someone who kills an intruder would be the psychological after effects.

Agree the emotional and psychological impact can be significant for some folks.

Also agree the castle law has helped a lot in some of these cases. Even so I have seem a few estimates of $20-50K cost just to retain and establish adequate and competent legal representation - even in a legal and seemingly fully justified use of a firearm in your home. Even brandishing a weapon at a would be attacker can put you in a world of hurt. Using a gun anywhere to defend yourself should be the very last (I am totally cornered and fear severe injury/death) option.

rj342
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by rj342 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:27 pm

Apart forma an alarm system and perhaps visible cameras to deter a break-in or alert you of entry, or various lethal or nonlethal weapons to protect yourself if you are home when they actually come in -- the in-between option is enhancing the physical security, actually make it more difficult to break in.

People have mentioned items for Windows, and presumably in this day and age deadbolts are beyond a no-brainer, but the door itself is key as they burglars overwhelmingly prefer entering and exiting thru a door versus clambering over a windows sill, getting cut, etc. it can be surprisingly easy for them to simply give a few kicks and crack the door frame around the latch.

There are various bars that mount to the floor and other things on the inside but they are only useful when you are home, not when you leave.

Easiest thing to do is to replace the short screws in the strike plates where the lockset bolts of the latches enter the door frame. Long security screws are available which will penetrate the flimsy door frame all the way into the studs of the house framing. About 15 years ago somebody tried to kick in my back door (daytime while we were at work) and they failed. Door flexed enough to trip the alarm sensor so they gave up and ran.
Per cops, even if they're surprised by an alarm, once they are already inside they are fairly likely to go ahead and play beat the clock instead of immediately fleeing.

A step up from that is door reinforcements like Door Armor from Armor Concepts. I have bought a set but have not installed it yet.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Doom&Gloom » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:38 pm

Not only must one be prepared to use a firearm if they choose to have one in their home, but one must also be prepared to use all of the other suggestions in this thread as they are intended to be used.

A relative of mine was attacked in her own home a couple of years ago because she was talked into opening her door (which was equipped with burglar bars) a crack. The perp then kicked the door open and voila'. Preventing a lapse of common sense is very important when one is acting on the spur of the moment against someone who has a well thought-out plan.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:46 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:19 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:53 am
- Always retreat/flee
That's far from realistic in many, probably most, home invasion scenarios, especially at night. You might be able to get out of a bedroom window in time, but that could easily require more time than you have and might require physical dexterity that you do not possess.

There are good reasons why most states do not impose a duty to retreat when you are in your home.

In many other situations (e.g. very large stores, outdoors), I agree with you that the 'Nike defense' is generally best, assuming that you have the physical ability to run reasonably well.
"That's far from realistic in many, probably most, home invasion scenarios, especially at night. You might be able to get out of a bedroom window in time, but that could easily require more time than you have and might require physical dexterity that you do not possess."
The first goal is to retreat or flee to the best of your ability.
In our case we have methods for that which may work (or may not).

"There are good reasons why most states do not impose a duty to retreat when you are in your home."
I do not view it as a duty just that it is the best method to achieve the goal if it is available.

"I agree with you that the 'Nike defense' is generally best, assuming that you have the physical ability to run reasonably well."
I have assisted in installing "disco' types of systems in larger boats and the security team always noted that there needs to be a back up plan to these systems. If they work great but never rely on them as an 'only' plan.
The NIKE defense may work for me but not for others in my family - therefore if we cannot retreat/flee effectively I/we have a backup plan for that.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:50 pm

Reading this thread, I feel like I need a Toyota HiLux with a .50 cal mounted in the bed and maybe 12,000 rounds or so. Geez....some of you people need to move. If I shot someone coming into the house after I went to bed, it would be one of my sons or my wife. Or maybe one of the deer or bears that wander around my woods.
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smitcat
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:50 pm
Reading this thread, I feel like I need a Toyota HiLux with a .50 cal mounted in the bed and maybe 12,000 rounds or so. Geez....some of you people need to move. If I shot someone coming into the house after I went to bed, it would be one of my sons or my wife. Or maybe one of the deer or bears that wander around my woods.
Mass. statistics - 3.8% of population are victims of violent crimes annually.

dukeblue219
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by dukeblue219 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:14 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Mass. statistics - 3.8% of population are victims of violent crimes annually.
That looks awfully high at first glance. You sure it's not 3.8 per 1000? The vast majority of those are going to be assaults - think two drunk people starting a fight at 3am.

The rate of violent crimes by a stranger in your home is (and I don't have the numbers handy) really, really low.

smitcat
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:20 pm

dukeblue219 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:14 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Mass. statistics - 3.8% of population are victims of violent crimes annually.
That looks awfully high at first glance. You sure it's not 3.8 per 1000? The vast majority of those are going to be assaults - think two drunk people starting a fight at 3am.

The rate of violent crimes by a stranger in your home is (and I don't have the numbers handy) really, really low.

"That looks awfully high at first glance. You sure it's not 3.8 per 1000? The vast majority of those are going to be assaults - think two drunk people starting a fight at 3am."
Your are probably correct - look it up here.....
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ma/crime

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willthrill81
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:29 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:46 pm
The NIKE defense may work for me but not for others in my family - therefore if we cannot retreat/flee effectively I/we have a backup plan for that.
Great. I hope that your backup plan includes something that goes boom.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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willthrill81
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:50 pm
Reading this thread, I feel like I need a Toyota HiLux with a .50 cal mounted in the bed and maybe 12,000 rounds or so. Geez....some of you people need to move. If I shot someone coming into the house after I went to bed, it would be one of my sons or my wife. Or maybe one of the deer or bears that wander around my woods.
That's why you must be 100% sure of your target before you engage.

Home invasions occur even in 'nice' neighborhoods. After all, it's houses in those areas that have 'nice' stuff.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:34 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:29 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:46 pm
The NIKE defense may work for me but not for others in my family - therefore if we cannot retreat/flee effectively I/we have a backup plan for that.
Great. I hope that your backup plan includes something that goes boom.
I have not had to use a weapon in life...
- we have used fire extinguishers twice
- and we used an AED once
- and had to use self defense on two occasions
- also did water rescues twice, one that required CPR
So far not a weapon, thankfully.

whomever
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by whomever » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:38 pm

"Regarding ADT, does the homeowner pay anything for installation including electrical wiring for outside motion sensors and cameras etc.? While there is a contract, does the homeowner need to perform any maintenance at all (like fixing stuff and changing batteries, bulbs, connections etc. etc.) or does ADT come out and do what needs to be done? At my age, I am trying to avoid performing any work to keep the house and yard in working condition."

Of course, the voluminous contract they will have you sign is the place for definitive answers.

FWIW, from when we have gone alarm shopping: the places, like ADT, that had full page ads in the Yellow Pages (remember them :-)) generally had a business model where the system was installed either free or at a teaser rate, with the idea they would charge you a high monthly rate to pay off the install.

I'm sorry, I don't know how much maintenance is included in that.

I would sure recommend that you at least talk to a local alarm company that uses the different model where you pay upfront for the install of a system that you own, and then use one of the cheap by-the-month monitoring services. This recommendation is partly that it is cheaper after just a few years, as the cheaper monthly cost exceeds the more expensive initial cost.

The other reason is that when we were alarm shopping the 'big name' places just came across like sleazy used car merchants. It seemed that their target demographic was scared people who had just been broken into and weren't in the mood for comparison shopping. The sales people came across as pushy and didn't have good knowledge of their products. The contracts were onerous, e.g. they retained ownership of the system in perpetuity and if you ever cancelled reserved the right to remove the equipment without liability for damage to the house, etc, etc. We found it offputting enough to look at the smaller local installers and found them to be much more competent. I think we calculated the payback time for the higher upfront/lower monthly to be 3 years or so, and we stayed in that house 28 years.

We didn't have any repair issues in that time, with the exception that the small gel-cell battery that powers the system during power outages had to be replaced twice, IIRC. You could call someone to do that, although it's a trivial DIY - order a similar battery from Amazon and unplug the old/plug in the new. It's roughly as difficult as changing a light bulb. We had zero issues with the various sensors, etc.

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willthrill81
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:43 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:34 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:29 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:46 pm
The NIKE defense may work for me but not for others in my family - therefore if we cannot retreat/flee effectively I/we have a backup plan for that.
Great. I hope that your backup plan includes something that goes boom.
I have not had to use a weapon in life...
- we have used fire extinguishers twice
- and we used an AED once
- and had to use self defense on two occasions
- also did water rescues twice, one that required CPR
So far not a weapon, thankfully.
I'm glad that you've had the skills/items you needed for all of that.

Self-defense is one of those things that you may never need in your life, like an insurance policy. But if you do need it, there is no substitute.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by surfstar » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:53 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:20 pm
dukeblue219 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:14 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Mass. statistics - 3.8% of population are victims of violent crimes annually.
That looks awfully high at first glance. You sure it's not 3.8 per 1000? The vast majority of those are going to be assaults - think two drunk people starting a fight at 3am.

The rate of violent crimes by a stranger in your home is (and I don't have the numbers handy) really, really low.

"That looks awfully high at first glance. You sure it's not 3.8 per 1000? The vast majority of those are going to be assaults - think two drunk people starting a fight at 3am."
Your are probably correct - look it up here.....
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ma/crime
...and it still doesn't get into the detail level for this thread. Home invasion burglaries, when the residents are home, are very, very rare.

This thread did prompt me to buy some Simplisafe stickers for the home. While we only have a Wyze cam for the front entry, I feel these stickers will be a better deterrent than the previous tenant's generic "protected by electronic security system" single sticker. Especially if the Simplisafe sticker is placed near the conspicuous Wyze cam that faces out. Make it even easier for potential burglars or package thieves to realize there's at least one camera and who knows what else.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:56 pm

dukeblue219 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:14 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Mass. statistics - 3.8% of population are victims of violent crimes annually.
That looks awfully high at first glance. You sure it's not 3.8 per 1000? The vast majority of those are going to be assaults - think two drunk people starting a fight at 3am.

The rate of violent crimes by a stranger in your home is (and I don't have the numbers handy) really, really low.
Now that I think about it, I was stared down by a masked property intruder once. But my training (from summer camp) kicked in and I started yelling and ran towards the intruder. He turned around and waddled up a tree. Raccoons do that, you know. That's about the speed of our town. We're not Dorchester out here.
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3504PIR
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by 3504PIR » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:05 pm

We use blink with 6 cameras around our house. We also have some older cameras which don’t work in various locations. We have a large, well trained dog and as we live fairly rural, are well armed with a variety of firearms everyone has been trained on specific to what they can manage in a crisis. I have no expectation that anyone in my family would target another human being except for me so that was an important part of the training (I.e where to shoot not to harm each other, rate of fire, etc).

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queso
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by queso » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:16 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:35 pm
queso wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:05 am
1) call 911 and pray that they find some easy to grab stuff and leave without harming your family (LE response to an alarm in my HCOL suburban area is 12 minutes the last time I timed them. That's a really long prayer..)
Wow, that's a pretty terrible response time in a suburban area. I suppose the saying "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away" really is true.
Yep. I had a head start since ADT called me first before phoning LE. I was driving to dinner with my wife and wasn't too far away so I pulled a U turn and headed home. By the time they arrived I had turned the car around, gotten home (parked down the street with lights off and left wife in driver seat with car running and instructions to bolt if anybody comes toward the car other than me), entered through a back door that was ajar (the source of the alarm) and cleared the house. I saw flashing lights outside and knew they were there so I secured my weapon in a safe and went outside with my hands visible to meet them. They asked me my name to verify who I was (wife had given them a description) and then asked if I was armed (wife told them I was). I explained that I had already secured my weapon and that the place was clear. They offered to clear it again for me and I graciously accepted. Afterward they hung around and chatted for a bit while we made them some coffee to take with them. I have the utmost respect for LE and have trained with and am friends with a few of them, but in my experience they are there to investigate crime and arrest bad guys - not stop you from being hurt by them. There simply aren't enough of them for that.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Inframan4712 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm

galawdawg wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:51 am
Just a couple of suggestions: You may want to check with your homeowner's insurance provider to see if they have a discount if you use SimpliSafe and if not, what the discount would be for a centrally monitored system. I found that the insurance discount through my carrier more than pays for the monthly cost for central monitoring.

Also, rather than fake cameras, why not install an actual video surveillance system? If you are handy you can get a wired system for a few hundred dollars and self-install or you can get a couple of wireless cameras. The ability to receive email or text alerts of motion detected by the cameras (along with a still photo of the motion or a link to view video) and having the video footage recorded in the event of break-in or other suspicious activity is well worth the nominal cost of a system. Burglars will often "case" a house by going during the day (or other time when they believe nobody is home) and ringing the doorbell. Having that on video is very helpful to law enforcement. A fake camera may deter some burglars, but nothing substitutes for the real thing.
Arlo. So easy to install. No wires. No monthly fee for 5 cameras or less. Works great if pointed in the proper direction - directly at the approach or retreat. Doesn’t work from the side. You’ll only get video of back leg leaving the frame.

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queso
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by queso » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm

Inframan4712 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm
galawdawg wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:51 am
Just a couple of suggestions: You may want to check with your homeowner's insurance provider to see if they have a discount if you use SimpliSafe and if not, what the discount would be for a centrally monitored system. I found that the insurance discount through my carrier more than pays for the monthly cost for central monitoring.

Also, rather than fake cameras, why not install an actual video surveillance system? If you are handy you can get a wired system for a few hundred dollars and self-install or you can get a couple of wireless cameras. The ability to receive email or text alerts of motion detected by the cameras (along with a still photo of the motion or a link to view video) and having the video footage recorded in the event of break-in or other suspicious activity is well worth the nominal cost of a system. Burglars will often "case" a house by going during the day (or other time when they believe nobody is home) and ringing the doorbell. Having that on video is very helpful to law enforcement. A fake camera may deter some burglars, but nothing substitutes for the real thing.
Arlo. So easy to install. No wires. No monthly fee for 5 cameras or less. Works great if pointed in the proper direction - directly at the approach or retreat. Doesn’t work from the side. You’ll only get video of back leg leaving the frame.
One thing I have found that really helps with Arlo is getting into the modes and setting cameras that have somewhat overlapping/interlocking fields of view or are covering the same side to come on when only one of them senses motion. That helps overcome some of the lag in motion detection. For example, on the front of my house I have three of them so I have the modes set so when "front door - right" senses motion it automatically starts recording on "front door - left" and "front bedroom windows" at the same time. Often you can catch something/someone moving across an area in pretty good detail by looking at the recordings from all 3.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by NJdad6 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:31 pm

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by abuss368 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:53 pm

We have this gatling gun behind our door!

Image
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Cubicle
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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by Cubicle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:22 am

BolderBoy wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Cubicle wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 am
An armed home owner would absolutely scare me away.
If the intruder isn't whacked out on drugs. The last two home invasion-type homeowner shootings that happened in Boulder, CO involved college kids who'd experimented with the wrong drugs. The homeowners quite literally were in fear of losing their lives.
Exactly. If the sight of a home owner hold a gun doesn't make an intruder retreat, he's in a state of mind that he/she/it won't think twice about harming you.

I'll go to jail before I get killed. In jail I at least have a chance to plead my case.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by brcarls » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:59 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:35 pm
I don't care for traditional security systems, which usually require a door or window to be opened to activate (while you're home at least);
I installed door and window sensors which detect an opening but also have shock sensors. The shock sensor will set off the alarm if someone kicks the door but fails to open it... The window shock sensors will go off if my cleaning lady slaps at a wasp on the glass... much to her surprise :mrgreen: I've had this self-installed Ademco system for about 15 years now and that was the only "false" alarm.

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by smitcat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:02 am

abuss368 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:53 pm
We have this gatling gun behind our door!

Image
How did you know which door to place it at?

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Re: Protection Against Home Intruders

Post by brcarls » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:06 am

Prudence wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:30 am
Regarding ADT,
FWIW, I consider ADT to be the Edward Jones of home security. They have their place, but their business is built on charging enormous recurring fees for things that should be cheap or free if someone puts a tiny bit of effort into understanding the basics.

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