Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

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bitdocmd
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm

Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.

am
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by am » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm

bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:50 pm

am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
How hard is it to convert bitcoin to a local currency at a reasonable cost in large numbers?

Let’s say I decide to move $1 million to New Zealand. How hard would it be to do that via bitcoin? How much would it cost to convert it into the New Zealand dollar?

Coinbase for example has a $25k a day cap.

bitdocmd
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:36 pm

am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
It depends on the country. In most cases U.S. Benjamins would function better. I personally do not think bitcoin is ready for spending as a currency. That is not its value proposition. Bitcoin is digital gold and a safe haven in 2020.

am
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by am » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:49 pm

bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:36 pm
am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
It depends on the country. In most cases U.S. Benjamins would function better. I personally do not think bitcoin is ready for spending as a currency. That is not its value proposition. Bitcoin is digital gold and a safe haven in 2020.
US Benjamin’s would need a suitcase if you needed to live long term somewhere outside the country and had no access to your brokerage and bank accounts for whatever reason. Seems Bitcoin would work assuming Coinbase was operational and you could convert bitcoin to the local currency somehow. What would you do if Coinbase was down?

bitdocmd
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:54 pm

Alaric wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:31 pm
People who need to pay blackmail anonymously.
People still living in 2018.
People who haven't heard that Silk Road was shut down.
Frustrated futurists repeatedly let down by Marvin Minsky, seeking their new false messiah.
This is ignorance.

bitdocmd

boomer_techie
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:47 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by boomer_techie » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm

am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
There's a (former) poker player who used Bitcoin to move funds when he played in foreign casinos. It was apparently faster and easier than internationally wiring the funds via banks. I don't know how he turned Bitcoin into cash and vice versa - perhaps last/next week's players would be on the other end of that exchange?

bitdocmd
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:00 pm

am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:49 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:36 pm
am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm


We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
It depends on the country. In most cases U.S. Benjamins would function better. I personally do not think bitcoin is ready for spending as a currency. That is not its value proposition. Bitcoin is digital gold and a safe haven in 2020.
US Benjamin’s would need a suitcase if you needed to live long term somewhere outside the country and had no access to your brokerage and bank accounts for whatever reason.
Exactly. Bitcoin only requires you to memorize some letters and numbers and you can transport a billion dollars across borders in your brain.

am
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by am » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:11 pm

bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:00 pm
am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:49 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:36 pm
am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm


If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
It depends on the country. In most cases U.S. Benjamins would function better. I personally do not think bitcoin is ready for spending as a currency. That is not its value proposition. Bitcoin is digital gold and a safe haven in 2020.
US Benjamin’s would need a suitcase if you needed to live long term somewhere outside the country and had no access to your brokerage and bank accounts for whatever reason.
Exactly. Bitcoin only requires you to memorize some letters and numbers and you can transport a billion dollars across borders in your brain.
My bitcoin is at Coinbase Here in the US. Say I wanted to live in New Zealand for years. Would I be able to access my US brokerage and bank accounts to live on there? How would I get my bitcoin at US Coinbase converted to local currency? Say there was something truly terrible happening here in the US and Coinbase was down, how could I get my bitcoin?

boomer_techie
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:47 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by boomer_techie » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:42 am

am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:11 pm
My bitcoin is at Coinbase Here in the US. Say I wanted to live in New Zealand for years. ... How would I get my bitcoin at US Coinbase converted to local currency? Say there was something truly terrible happening here in the US and Coinbase was down, how could I get my bitcoin?
First rule of crypto ownership: Never leave it in an exchange (unless you're day trading in which case you have to take the risk.)

To take your crypto to NZ: Get some wallet software, or better yet, a hardware wallet. Transfer from Coinbase to your wallet. Now you can take your wallet to NZ - whether it is your phone, a tablet, a laptop, a desktop tower, or a USB stick like hardware wallet. Or you can memorize the seed used to initialize your wallet. (Don't store this seed on any electronic device - doing so defeats the security!) Now find someone in NZ that wants to buy crypto. (There's a site to help with that, but I won't link to it.) Meet the buyer in a cafe, and use your electronics (with a network connection) to send to your buyer.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:11 am

boomer_techie wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:42 am
am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:11 pm
My bitcoin is at Coinbase Here in the US. Say I wanted to live in New Zealand for years. ... How would I get my bitcoin at US Coinbase converted to local currency? Say there was something truly terrible happening here in the US and Coinbase was down, how could I get my bitcoin?
First rule of crypto ownership: Never leave it in an exchange (unless you're day trading in which case you have to take the risk.)

To take your crypto to NZ: Get some wallet software, or better yet, a hardware wallet. Transfer from Coinbase to your wallet. Now you can take your wallet to NZ - whether it is your phone, a tablet, a laptop, a desktop tower, or a USB stick like hardware wallet. Or you can memorize the seed used to initialize your wallet. (Don't store this seed on any electronic device - doing so defeats the security!) Now find someone in NZ that wants to buy crypto. (There's a site to help with that, but I won't link to it.) Meet the buyer in a cafe, and use your electronics (with a network connection) to send to your buyer.
Ok. So now I have my wallet in NZ. How do I buy a house with it? How do I convert it relatively quickly over a week let’s say into $500k NZ dollars so I can use it?

User avatar
Ramjet
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:45 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Ramjet » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:20 am

boomer_techie wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm
am wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:23 pm
Say you had to move to a foreign country from US from whatever reason and markets and banks were closed due to a disaster or emergency, would bitcoin then be the best way to be assured of money to live on in the new country? It would bypass the closed markets, banks, etc. All you would need is the internet and a way to convert bitcoin to local currency.
There's a (former) poker player who used Bitcoin to move funds when he played in foreign casinos. It was apparently faster and easier than internationally wiring the funds via banks. I don't know how he turned Bitcoin into cash and vice versa - perhaps last/next week's players would be on the other end of that exchange?
What's his name?

Topic Author
Jon_PassiveInvestor
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Jon_PassiveInvestor » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:23 am

It’s been a fun ride so far! Headed toward 2% of assets in crypto soon. Already has gained quite a bit.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:27 am

Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:23 am
It’s been a fun ride so far! Headed toward 2% of assets in crypto soon. Already has gained quite a bit.
not bad....congrats...when do you sell to keep the gains?

ochotona
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by ochotona » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:51 am

I opened a RobinHood account for when BTC is $4000 again. :D

staustin
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by staustin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:48 pm

i'm allocating dollars to bitcoin and gold monthly.. marketwatch front page article today only reinforces my conviction. In it, Powell discusses aggressive QE almost as the last tool in the tool box that could be effective in the next downturn, in light of low / negative interest rates and budget deficits. Currency debasement is the steroid that's less and less effective, eventually causing harm to the patient. To each his own of course and in now way is this intended to be a criticism of those that are more comfortable in the current economic environment than I... back to storm shelter now :happy .

Topic Author
Jon_PassiveInvestor
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Jon_PassiveInvestor » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:49 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:27 am
Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:23 am
It’s been a fun ride so far! Headed toward 2% of assets in crypto soon. Already has gained quite a bit.
not bad....congrats...when do you sell to keep the gains?
I’m staying in for 15+ years. I’ll cash out in retirement as it’s forecasted to be valued at 300k someday.

Topic Author
Jon_PassiveInvestor
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Jon_PassiveInvestor » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:54 pm

staustin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:48 pm
i'm allocating dollars to bitcoin and gold monthly.. marketwatch front page article today only reinforces my conviction. In it, Powell discusses aggressive QE almost as the last tool in the tool box that could be effective in the next downturn, in light of low / negative interest rates and budget deficits. Currency debasement is the steroid that's less and less effective, eventually causing harm to the patient. To each his own of course and in now way is this intended to be a criticism of those that are more comfortable in the current economic environment than I... back to storm shelter now :happy .
Couldn’t agree more. Many here will want to slap themselves ten years from now.

IHateCasinos
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:58 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by IHateCasinos » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:20 pm

Better question - Where ARE the customers yachts?

Btw, the` book of that title was written in NINETEEN FORTY. So not much has changed. :(

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:25 pm

Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:54 pm
staustin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:48 pm
i'm allocating dollars to bitcoin and gold monthly.. marketwatch front page article today only reinforces my conviction. In it, Powell discusses aggressive QE almost as the last tool in the tool box that could be effective in the next downturn, in light of low / negative interest rates and budget deficits. Currency debasement is the steroid that's less and less effective, eventually causing harm to the patient. To each his own of course and in now way is this intended to be a criticism of those that are more comfortable in the current economic environment than I... back to storm shelter now :happy .
Couldn’t agree more. Many here will want to slap themselves ten years from now.
I heard those comment every year for the last decade about gold and bitcoin. Looks like bitcoin did well. Gold....meh.

boomer_techie
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:47 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by boomer_techie » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm

Ramjet wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:20 am
boomer_techie wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm
There's a (former) poker player who used Bitcoin to move funds when he played in foreign casinos.
What's his name?
Doug Polk. He has multiple YouTube channels: Poker, Bitcoin, and I think another one. He rarely posts videos these days. (It seems he "won" the "game" (the wealth game, not the card game) and suddenly got financially cautious.)

User avatar
Ramjet
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:45 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Ramjet » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:53 am

He's entertaining, I've seen some of his videos, good analysis too

Vision
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Vision » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114141&p=1659343#p1659343

I was shooed off by Bogleheads in 2013 for suggesting cryptos, my thread got locked ,etc.., but if you look at fundamental truths you will see that:
  • Society is moving towards cashless, which means elimination of cash and thus limiting of black money in cash
  • This means black money from cash has to go elsewhere. Since Bitcoin is decentralised and not controlled by government it is perfect asset for crime
  • Offshores are getting tightened. Now USA gov is fearful Bitcoin will replace Swiss offshore bank accounts. And it will. It already does partially. I also kept talking about this, but nobody paid attention to the offshore regulation aspect. About 21$ trillion in offshores. Only tiny portion of that has to go into Bitcoin to make it pump hard.
  • Crime will not go away and so Bitcoin will also always have intrinsic niche utility.
  • Reducing supply. Bitcoin will be mined x2 less after halving. And lots of Bitcoin will be lost due to lost wallets, forgotten wallets, sending to wrong address or holders dying and not giving anyone access. This means the supply will reduce even more over time, so mathematically that will make them more rare and valuable.
  • Most important aspect: Bitcoin is the first asset in history of mankind that cannot be confiscated. Gold, stocks, real estate, bank accounts can all be frozen and confiscated. But sequence of characters stored in your brain cannot. And if you will mention the 5$ wrench attack then duress phrase or decoy wallet solves that very easily. Nobody can prove you have a private key store in your brain that holds billions in bitcoin. You can pass all borders and airports and nobody will know that you have remembered a seed or sequence that holds access to millions. This is revolutionary and never been done before in history of mankind. This is the main reason why Bitcoin is so useful and has so much potential. Nobody has so far proved me a reliable method for extracting memory from your brain. Once brain scans become available - that could render Bitcoin useless though.
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Learn about wasabi wallet, tumbling and laundering via Monero please. Plenty of options if you don't want to get traced.
Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:16 pm
I’m about to pull trigger and buy bitcoin, ethereum, and some Litecoin tomorrow. Who else is investing in these? What % allocation are you going with?
I don't understand why you are suddenly interested in Bitcoin now when you had 10 years to buy it. I don't believe January 2020 is first time you hard about Bitcoin. There was huge bubble in 2017, collapsing in 2018 and you could have bought at 3-5k easily and also by that time whole world heard about Bitcoin, it became mainstream. So really not sure why this question is posed right now.

My recommendation is not to hold more than 5% of your total assets in Bitcoin and not to buy any other cryptocurrency as they are useless copycat projects. Bitcoin has first mover advantage and is truly decentralised.

ochotona wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:51 am
I opened a RobinHood account for when BTC is $4000 again. :D
You had chance in 2017.

And Robinhood has nothing to do with Bitcoin.
DiscoBunny1979 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:28 pm
In my opinion, an approach to 'invest' in Bitcoin is to Dollar Cost Average the same way You would buy into an S&P Index fund. But my holdings in Bitcoin is not for 'investing'. I treat my Bitcoin like Gold/Silver. It's insurance against the unknown - like the collapse of the dollar. And because of that, the only crypto holding I needs is Bitcoin (although I also hold some Litecoin). Diversity for insurance purposes is then Gold, Silver and Bitcoin.
DCA is good approach ,but buying Litecoin is huge mistake. It is just copycat code and totally useless. Bitcoin is speculative asset just as gold and silver, correct. It is not an investment.

Topic Author
Jon_PassiveInvestor
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Jon_PassiveInvestor » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:42 am

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114141&p=1659343#p1659343

I was shooed off by Bogleheads in 2013 for suggesting cryptos, my thread got locked ,etc.., but if you look at fundamental truths you will see that:
  • Society is moving towards cashless, which means elimination of cash and thus limiting of black money in cash
  • This means black money from cash has to go elsewhere. Since Bitcoin is decentralised and not controlled by government it is perfect asset for crime
  • Offshores are getting tightened. Now USA gov is fearful Bitcoin will replace Swiss offshore bank accounts. And it will. It already does partially. I also kept talking about this, but nobody paid attention to the offshore regulation aspect. About 21$ trillion in offshores. Only tiny portion of that has to go into Bitcoin to make it pump hard.
  • Crime will not go away and so Bitcoin will also always have intrinsic niche utility.
  • Reducing supply. Bitcoin will be mined x2 less after halving. And lots of Bitcoin will be lost due to lost wallets, forgotten wallets, sending to wrong address or holders dying and not giving anyone access. This means the supply will reduce even more over time, so mathematically that will make them more rare and valuable.
  • Most important aspect: Bitcoin is the first asset in history of mankind that cannot be confiscated. Gold, stocks, real estate, bank accounts can all be frozen and confiscated. But sequence of characters stored in your brain cannot. And if you will mention the 5$ wrench attack then duress phrase or decoy wallet solves that very easily. Nobody can prove you have a private key store in your brain that holds billions in bitcoin. You can pass all borders and airports and nobody will know that you have remembered a seed or sequence that holds access to millions. This is revolutionary and never been done before in history of mankind. This is the main reason why Bitcoin is so useful and has so much potential. Nobody has so far proved me a reliable method for extracting memory from your brain. Once brain scans become available - that could render Bitcoin useless though.
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Learn about wasabi wallet, tumbling and laundering via Monero please. Plenty of options if you don't want to get traced.
Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:16 pm
I’m about to pull trigger and buy bitcoin, ethereum, and some Litecoin tomorrow. Who else is investing in these? What % allocation are you going with?
I don't understand why you are suddenly interested in Bitcoin now when you had 10 years to buy it. I don't believe January 2020 is first time you hard about Bitcoin. There was huge bubble in 2017, collapsing in 2018 and you could have bought at 3-5k easily and also by that time whole world heard about Bitcoin, it became mainstream. So really not sure why this question is posed right now.

My recommendation is not to hold more than 5% of your total assets in Bitcoin and not to buy any other cryptocurrency as they are useless copycat projects. Bitcoin has first mover advantage and is truly decentralised.

ochotona wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:51 am
I opened a RobinHood account for when BTC is $4000 again. :D
You had chance in 2017.

And Robinhood has nothing to do with Bitcoin.
DiscoBunny1979 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:28 pm
In my opinion, an approach to 'invest' in Bitcoin is to Dollar Cost Average the same way You would buy into an S&P Index fund. But my holdings in Bitcoin is not for 'investing'. I treat my Bitcoin like Gold/Silver. It's insurance against the unknown - like the collapse of the dollar. And because of that, the only crypto holding I needs is Bitcoin (although I also hold some Litecoin). Diversity for insurance purposes is then Gold, Silver and Bitcoin.
DCA is good approach ,but buying Litecoin is huge mistake. It is just copycat code and totally useless. Bitcoin is speculative asset just as gold and silver, correct. It is not an investment.
Yes I’m at 2% of assets. Holding for next 15-20 years.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:06 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114141&p=1659343#p1659343
.....

Bitcoin is speculative asset just as gold and silver, correct. It is not an investment.
Sorry to cut out everything else, but I think your last sentence is key. Buying bitcoin is speculation. Bitcoin has lots of room to potentially grow and it also can fall apart. Even if Bitcoin is completely irrational, if enough people find it rational, it has value and may continue to grow for many years to come.

Personally I think the ship has sailed on Bitcoin speculation where 5% made a substantial difference. Time to buy was when no one knew about it, and it was valued at under $1. Today everyone knows what Bitcoin is. So, the only way to get more demand is to convince others that they somehow need it. Obviously it is happening since the price has been popping up since the collapse in 2017. Remember though that the run up prior to 2017 was in part due to price manipulation. That means the actual demand did not warrant a price of $20k. Since then, more bitcoin has been mined, lots of people lost a lot of money and are scared off. Is there a demand for a price of $20k+ in the near future? Only time will tell.

I do enjoy the Bitcoin show as I watch from the sidelines.

staustin
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by staustin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:16 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:25 pm
Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:54 pm
staustin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:48 pm
i'm allocating dollars to bitcoin and gold monthly.. marketwatch front page article today only reinforces my conviction. In it, Powell discusses aggressive QE almost as the last tool in the tool box that could be effective in the next downturn, in light of low / negative interest rates and budget deficits. Currency debasement is the steroid that's less and less effective, eventually causing harm to the patient. To each his own of course and in now way is this intended to be a criticism of those that are more comfortable in the current economic environment than I... back to storm shelter now :happy .
Couldn’t agree more. Many here will want to slap themselves ten years from now.
I heard those comment every year for the last decade about gold and bitcoin. Looks like bitcoin did well. Gold....meh.
true... who knows when the party will end, but, it will eventually end. Charlie Munger added his voice to the discussion this morning. global debt now approaching 300 trillion which is collectively 330% of GDP, US federal debt stands at 24 trillion with annual tax collections at 4 trillion, household debt now 14 trillion, all time high, etc. etc.. meanwhile, sovereign yields are historically low to negative and the fed chair two days ago says further QE is really the only tool left in the tool box to ward off the next downturn. investors should take heed of these global macro-economics. Those with shorter time frames to retirement are exposed to considerable more downside risk than they probably realize.

PVW
Posts: 629
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:01 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by PVW » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
It's hard to take you seriously when you list brain scanning and leave out market manipulation.

Vision
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Vision » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm

PVW wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm
Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
It's hard to take you seriously when you list brain scanning and leave out market manipulation.
Market manipulation is a meme. Everything is manipulated. The smaller asset is the easier it is to manipulate. That is just normal market dynamic. The larger market cap the harder it is to manipulate. Easier to rock a boat than a cruise ship.

Manipulation does not affect the intrinsic value of bitcoin which is unconfiscateability.

Disprove points please.
true... who knows when the party will end, but, it will eventually end. Charlie Munger added his voice to the discussion this morning. global debt now approaching 300 trillion which is collectively 330% of GDP, US federal debt stands at 24 trillion with annual tax collections at 4 trillion, household debt now 14 trillion, all time high, etc. etc.. meanwhile, sovereign yields are historically low to negative and the fed chair two days ago says further QE is really the only tool left in the tool box to ward off the next downturn. investors should take heed of these global macro-economics. Those with shorter time frames to retirement are exposed to considerable more downside risk than they probably realize.
This is a concern what Charlie said recently, but...what alternatives are there really?

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:24 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm
PVW wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm
Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
It's hard to take you seriously when you list brain scanning and leave out market manipulation.
Market manipulation is a meme. Everything is manipulated. The smaller asset is the easier it is to manipulate. That is just normal market dynamic. The larger market cap the harder it is to manipulate. Easier to rock a boat than a cruise ship.

Manipulation does not affect the intrinsic value of bitcoin which is unconfiscateability.

Disprove points please.
true... who knows when the party will end, but, it will eventually end. Charlie Munger added his voice to the discussion this morning. global debt now approaching 300 trillion which is collectively 330% of GDP, US federal debt stands at 24 trillion with annual tax collections at 4 trillion, household debt now 14 trillion, all time high, etc. etc.. meanwhile, sovereign yields are historically low to negative and the fed chair two days ago says further QE is really the only tool left in the tool box to ward off the next downturn. investors should take heed of these global macro-economics. Those with shorter time frames to retirement are exposed to considerable more downside risk than they probably realize.
This is a concern what Charlie said recently, but...what alternatives are there really?
Ignoring price manipulation is a bit ignorant in my opinion. It is one of the risks of owning Bitcoin and every speculator must understand it and take it into account.

If enough people fear manipulation then there won’t be an increase in demand as supply slowly increases. Value will fall.

Another manipulation or theft in the news would get the price to plummet. Again.

There is a clear risk in speculating in Bitcoin and with that risk there is a potential for some reward.

Vision
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Vision » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:59 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:24 pm
Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm
PVW wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm
Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
It's hard to take you seriously when you list brain scanning and leave out market manipulation.
Market manipulation is a meme. Everything is manipulated. The smaller asset is the easier it is to manipulate. That is just normal market dynamic. The larger market cap the harder it is to manipulate. Easier to rock a boat than a cruise ship.

Manipulation does not affect the intrinsic value of bitcoin which is unconfiscateability.

Disprove points please.
true... who knows when the party will end, but, it will eventually end. Charlie Munger added his voice to the discussion this morning. global debt now approaching 300 trillion which is collectively 330% of GDP, US federal debt stands at 24 trillion with annual tax collections at 4 trillion, household debt now 14 trillion, all time high, etc. etc.. meanwhile, sovereign yields are historically low to negative and the fed chair two days ago says further QE is really the only tool left in the tool box to ward off the next downturn. investors should take heed of these global macro-economics. Those with shorter time frames to retirement are exposed to considerable more downside risk than they probably realize.
This is a concern what Charlie said recently, but...what alternatives are there really?
Ignoring price manipulation is a bit ignorant in my opinion. It is one of the risks of owning Bitcoin and every speculator must understand it and take it into account.

If enough people fear manipulation then there won’t be an increase in demand as supply slowly increases. Value will fall.

Another manipulation or theft in the news would get the price to plummet. Again.

There is a clear risk in speculating in Bitcoin and with that risk there is a potential for some reward.
Can you actually refute any of the arguments I made?

Stock market is manipulated by the FED also.

Everything is manipulated. It's not an argument.

And it doesn't change the code and functioning of Bitcoin. It's still unconfiscateable and literally nothing else on entire planet is.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:59 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:24 pm
Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm
PVW wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm
Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
Risks for Bitcoin:
  • Governments allowing black money and removing restrictions on cash
  • Offshores becoming less controlled
  • Brain scanning software coming to fruition, but that would be risk for any passwords and everything
It's hard to take you seriously when you list brain scanning and leave out market manipulation.
Market manipulation is a meme. Everything is manipulated. The smaller asset is the easier it is to manipulate. That is just normal market dynamic. The larger market cap the harder it is to manipulate. Easier to rock a boat than a cruise ship.

Manipulation does not affect the intrinsic value of bitcoin which is unconfiscateability.

Disprove points please.
true... who knows when the party will end, but, it will eventually end. Charlie Munger added his voice to the discussion this morning. global debt now approaching 300 trillion which is collectively 330% of GDP, US federal debt stands at 24 trillion with annual tax collections at 4 trillion, household debt now 14 trillion, all time high, etc. etc.. meanwhile, sovereign yields are historically low to negative and the fed chair two days ago says further QE is really the only tool left in the tool box to ward off the next downturn. investors should take heed of these global macro-economics. Those with shorter time frames to retirement are exposed to considerable more downside risk than they probably realize.
This is a concern what Charlie said recently, but...what alternatives are there really?
Ignoring price manipulation is a bit ignorant in my opinion. It is one of the risks of owning Bitcoin and every speculator must understand it and take it into account.

If enough people fear manipulation then there won’t be an increase in demand as supply slowly increases. Value will fall.

Another manipulation or theft in the news would get the price to plummet. Again.

There is a clear risk in speculating in Bitcoin and with that risk there is a potential for some reward.
Can you actually refute any of the arguments I made?

Stock market is manipulated by the FED also.

Everything is manipulated. It's not an argument.

And it doesn't change the code and functioning of Bitcoin. It's still unconfiscateable and literally nothing else on entire planet is.
Stock manipulation by the fed is not accurate. The fed can only adjust interest rates. What people do with that is free market.

The actual demand for Bitcoin has been manipulated. What is the actual demand for Bitcoin? What is the real demand? Will the demand surpass the fake demand in 2017 while supply continues to increase? These are all interesting questions.

Lastly, just because something is unable to be confiscated does not necessarily make it valuable. Bitcoin’s value lies in its demand. If there is no demand there is no value.

We both agree that Bitcoin is a speculative play and we both agree that there is potential for growth. How much growth is speculative and very highly tied to the REAL demand of Bitcoin.

It is all very interesting.

PVW
Posts: 629
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:01 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by PVW » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:25 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:59 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:24 pm


Ignoring price manipulation is a bit ignorant in my opinion. It is one of the risks of owning Bitcoin and every speculator must understand it and take it into account.

If enough people fear manipulation then there won’t be an increase in demand as supply slowly increases. Value will fall.

Another manipulation or theft in the news would get the price to plummet. Again.

There is a clear risk in speculating in Bitcoin and with that risk there is a potential for some reward.
Can you actually refute any of the arguments I made?

Stock market is manipulated by the FED also.

Everything is manipulated. It's not an argument.

And it doesn't change the code and functioning of Bitcoin. It's still unconfiscateable and literally nothing else on entire planet is.
Unconfiscateable does not equate to valuable.

With regulated mining, wallets can be banned from transacting. Boom, your bitcoin is worthless.

teelainen
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:17 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by teelainen » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:28 pm

Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:16 pm
I’m about to pull trigger and buy bitcoin, ethereum, and some Litecoin tomorrow. Who else is investing in these? What % allocation are you going with?
5% in gold is never a bad idea.

Perhaps 2.5% in cryptocurrencies is reasonable?

patrick
Posts: 1706
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Mega-City One

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by patrick » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:30 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
Most important aspect: Bitcoin is the first asset in history of mankind that cannot be confiscated. Gold, stocks, real estate, bank accounts can all be frozen and confiscated. But sequence of characters stored in your brain cannot. And if you will mention the 5$ wrench attack then duress phrase or decoy wallet solves that very easily. Nobody can prove you have a private key store in your brain that holds billions in bitcoin. You can pass all borders and airports and nobody will know that you have remembered a seed or sequence that holds access to millions. This is revolutionary and never been done before in history of mankind. This is the main reason why Bitcoin is so useful and has so much potential.
Keeping access to wealth in your brain is not new. It has long been possible to bury lots of gold, silver, or diamonds in a remote area and not reveal the location, in which case only knowledge in your brain gives access to it. You can pass all borders and airports and nobody will know that you have remembered where the treasure is. I'm sure you can name some advantages of bitcoin over buried treasure, but having advantages over a previous approach doesn't make the new approach the first one in history.

Resistance to confiscation isn't a pure advantage as it impedes recovering stolen goods. If someone steals stocks, real estate, or bank accounts, the theft can normally be reversed. It's much less likely if someone steals your bitcoins.

Bitcoins aren't immune to government confiscation in practice. See https://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2020/ ... inauction/ for example. I know you meant that they cannot be confiscated from those who take sufficient security measures, but the criminals haven't learned yet.
And lots of Bitcoin will be lost due to lost wallets, forgotten wallets, sending to wrong address or holders dying and not giving anyone access. This means the supply will reduce even more over time, so mathematically that will make them more rare and valuable
This is as much a risk as an advantage. What if you are the one who makes a mistake resulting in your bitcoins being lost forever?
  • Society is moving towards cashless, which means elimination of cash and thus limiting of black money in cash
  • This means black money from cash has to go elsewhere. Since Bitcoin is decentralised and not controlled by government it is perfect asset for crime
  • Offshores are getting tightened. Now USA gov is fearful Bitcoin will replace Swiss offshore bank accounts. And it will. It already does partially. I also kept talking about this, but nobody paid attention to the offshore regulation aspect. About 21$ trillion in offshores. Only tiny portion of that has to go into Bitcoin to make it pump hard.
  • Crime will not go away and so Bitcoin will also always have intrinsic niche utility.
Bitcoin isn't the only thing that could replace illegal use of cash. Gold, silver, cocaine, and many other things would also work, and proceeds of crime could just be hidden in the regulated banking system (as they often are now). Or they might decide on another cryptocurrency, perhaps one that hasn't been invented yet.

If bitcoin does become popular for crime, that may not be good for bitcoin investors as it could lead governments to heavily restrict or ban the use of bitcoins. Governments can't tell who has the keys to bitcoins but they can prohibit above-board business from exchanging bitcoins or accepting them as payment. You'd have to transact in the underground economy, with its extra costs and risks, in order use your bitcoins. Even if the restrictions don't drive the price down, you might find that each bitcoin can buy $100,000 worth of cocaine but little else.

patrick
Posts: 1706
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Mega-City One

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by patrick » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:01 pm

Jon_PassiveInvestor wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:16 pm
I’m about to pull trigger and buy bitcoin, ethereum, and some Litecoin tomorrow. Who else is investing in these? What % allocation are you going with?
If you invest at market weight compared to stocks, the amount would be rather small. According to https://research.ftserussell.com/Analyt ... nual=false the total market cap of global stocks is $56.3 trillion, while according to https://coinmarketcap.com/ the market cap of cryptocurrencies is $0.3 trillion.

More specifically, market weight would mean that for every $1000 you have in stocks you should buy:

$3.31 in bitcoin
$0.52 in ethereum
$0.25 in XRP
$0.15 in bitcoin cash
$0.12 in bitcoin SV
$0.09 in litecoin

.... and small amounts in plenty of others

Nappyloxs
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:06 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Nappyloxs » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:11 pm

Skimmed thru the posts. Sorry if I repeat stuff.

A few of the last posts mentioned that bitcoin can’t be confiscated and discussed crime. I have known about bitcoin since probably 2012. I could have got it for about $80 a share and didn’t because I thought it was black market/ dark web currency and would fail. Dumb me. While it IS black market/dark web currency, there are also legitimate uses. Can it be confiscated? In the early days of bitcoin, a drug dealer in the states got arrested and the feds confiscated millions of bitcoin and this was when it was under $1k a coin. I don’t know if things have changed as I haven’t kept that close of tabs, but if Feds confiscated back then I am sure they can now.

I have heard some experts say they expect bitcoin to go to 30k sometime this decade. Plenty of online stores accept bitcoin. I read some comments how brick and mortar stores do not accepting bitcoin, therefore, it isn’t legit. Well brick and mortar stores are dying, so bitcoin isn’t going anywhere especially when most people who use it are techies and tech is the future.

I am not going to say crypto is the future or anything. My opinion is that bitcoin is the king of crypto and will be around a long time. Other crypto currency I think will eventually be bought out by banks and others for the technology. Facebook, Mercedes, and others are getting involved in crypto. Car companies are already working on using their version of crypto to pay at drive thrus.

I missed bitcoin early as well as marijuana in my state. I was young and didn’t have a lot of money then. But if I would have even invested $1,000 in bitcoin back then, I would be totally debt free today. You live you learn. Don’t be afraid to take a gamble if you think it is a good gamble and you have some change to invest. Paperless money is the future. I don’t know if that means crypto or some other form, but physical credit cards, cash, and coins, are not going to exist in 20 years.

Vision
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Vision » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:06 am

Keeping access to wealth in your brain is not new. It has long been possible to bury lots of gold, silver, or diamonds in a remote area and not reveal the location, in which case only knowledge in your brain gives access to it.
Incorrect. You are just going to conveniently gloss over aspect of mobility?

So you burry your gold in Nevada.

You can't take a chunk of it and pay for something.

You can't transport it all through airport to Honk Kong.

Your memory does not allow access to it, but with Bitcoin you have option to access it anywhere if you want to do so.

False equivalence at its best.
Unconfiscateable does not equate to valuable.
It actually does. It means it has intrinsic added value in crime. It has solved two general's problem.
Gold, silver, cocaine, and many other things would also work, and proceeds of crime could just be hidden in the regulated banking system (as they often are now). Or they might decide on another cryptocurrency, perhaps one that hasn't been invented yet.
They wouldn't work, because of cumbersome nature.

Gold is hard to transport, hard to divide, hard to pay with, hard to check for authenticity.

Cocaine is illegal everywhere, but that is not the problem. It is hard to check for authenticity also. It can be mixed. With Bitcoin you always know you are getting Bitcoin.
If bitcoin does become popular for crime, that may not be good for bitcoin investors as it could lead governments to heavily restrict or ban the use of bitcoins.
Bitcoin was mostly used for crime initially. Now it is used for crime less than in years prior to normie invasion. So if regulators did not ban it then then now there is way less chance of them banning it. Also, they can't really ban bitcoin. Since it is not centralised there is no office to go after. How can you ban me telling you a sequence of characters to remember in brain? Impossible. Banning bitcoin is a meme.
Governments can't tell who has the keys to bitcoins but they can prohibit above-board business from exchanging bitcoins or accepting them as payment.
This is true, but unlikely.
You'd have to transact in the underground economy, with its extra costs and risks, in order use your bitcoins. Even if the restrictions don't drive the price down, you might find that each bitcoin can buy $100,000 worth of cocaine but little else.
Underground economy is huge. 27$ trillion in offshores. That is underground economy as well. You can always exchange Bitcoin with other people, there is no way to prevent it. Even if McDonald's does not accept it I can always pay a person for services using Bitcoin. Bitcoin can be used for money laundering and bribes and this is an area which is not going away anytime soon.
I’m about to pull trigger and buy bitcoin, ethereum, and some Litecoin tomorrow. Who else is investing in these? What % allocation are you going with?
Buying Bitcoin during bubble and buying any other crypto than bitcoin is a huge mistake. You had years to buy Bitcoin low and now want to buy it? It makes no sense. You are making a mistake.
More specifically, market weight would mean that for every $1000 you have in stocks you should buy:

$3.31 in bitcoin
$0.52 in ethereum
$0.25 in XRP
$0.15 in bitcoin cash
$0.12 in bitcoin SV
$0.09 in litecoin
Why are you suggesting him buy XRP? It is not even a cryptocurrency. Obviously people who talk about buying XRP or shitcoins haven't really done homework. I suggest avoiding going into crypto if you haven't studied it to deep level.
A few of the last posts mentioned that bitcoin can’t be confiscated and discussed crime. I have known about bitcoin since probably 2012. I could have got it for about $80 a share and didn’t because I thought it was black market/ dark web currency and would fail.
Yes, it was wrong assumption, since why would dark markets go away? They will alway exist.
Can it be confiscated? In the early days of bitcoin, a drug dealer in the states got arrested and the feds confiscated millions of bitcoin and this was when it was under $1k a coin. I don’t know if things have changed as I haven’t kept that close of tabs, but if Feds confiscated back then I am sure they can now.
If you don't tell the seed / private key, it can't be confiscated. If you leave your private key exposed anyone can take it. That is common sense.
I have heard some experts say they expect bitcoin to go to 30k sometime this decade. Plenty of online stores accept bitcoin. I read some comments how brick and mortar stores do not accepting bitcoin, therefore, it isn’t legit. Well brick and mortar stores are dying, so bitcoin isn’t going anywhere especially when most people who use it are techies and tech is the future.
This is true. We are moving toward cashless economy. And Bitcoin is a good online replacement for cash.
I am not going to say crypto is the future or anything. My opinion is that bitcoin is the king of crypto and will be around a long time.
Agree 100%.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:17 am

I deleted my original post

Topic Author
Jon_PassiveInvestor
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Jon_PassiveInvestor » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:23 am

Nappyloxs wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:11 pm
Skimmed thru the posts. Sorry if I repeat stuff.

A few of the last posts mentioned that bitcoin can’t be confiscated and discussed crime. I have known about bitcoin since probably 2012. I could have got it for about $80 a share and didn’t because I thought it was black market/ dark web currency and would fail. Dumb me. While it IS black market/dark web currency, there are also legitimate uses. Can it be confiscated? In the early days of bitcoin, a drug dealer in the states got arrested and the feds confiscated millions of bitcoin and this was when it was under $1k a coin. I don’t know if things have changed as I haven’t kept that close of tabs, but if Feds confiscated back then I am sure they can now.

I have heard some experts say they expect bitcoin to go to 30k sometime this decade. Plenty of online stores accept bitcoin. I read some comments how brick and mortar stores do not accepting bitcoin, therefore, it isn’t legit. Well brick and mortar stores are dying, so bitcoin isn’t going anywhere especially when most people who use it are techies and tech is the future.

I am not going to say crypto is the future or anything. My opinion is that bitcoin is the king of crypto and will be around a long time. Other crypto currency I think will eventually be bought out by banks and others for the technology. Facebook, Mercedes, and others are getting involved in crypto. Car companies are already working on using their version of crypto to pay at drive thrus.

I missed bitcoin early as well as marijuana in my state. I was young and didn’t have a lot of money then. But if I would have even invested $1,000 in bitcoin back then, I would be totally debt free today. You live you learn. Don’t be afraid to take a gamble if you think it is a good gamble and you have some change to invest. Paperless money is the future. I don’t know if that means crypto or some other form, but physical credit cards, cash, and coins, are not going to exist in 20 years.
30k? Try 300k.

lexor
Posts: 607
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Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by lexor » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:42 am

bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:05 pm
bitdocmd wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Despite our treasury secretary saying he does not believe the U.S. dollar has been used for illicit activities I think it has.
We know that both bitcoin and the US dollar have be used in conjunction with crimes. It doesn’t matter what “they” say since people lie all the time. I don’t the US is prepared to deal with privacy, encryption, electronic crimes, spam calls, etc.

If you want to buy bitcoin, buy bitcoin at your own risk.
If you want to conduct a financial transaction anonymously use cash. Bitcoin has much less privacy.
Or Monero
“The miracle of compounding returns is overwhelmed by the tyranny of compounding costs.” -Mr. John C. Bogle

MotoTrojan
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Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:00 am

Invest outside the US 1st.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:37 pm

The things that Bitcoin appears to do, I have no use for.

I almost never use cash. Credit cards cover me plus I get points.
I can travel overseas and use the same credit cards there and get more points.
My credit cards are accepted all around the world.
I can store my wealth electronically.
I can easy take out cash and anonymously pay for a crime (not that I would.)
I have no fear of confiscation.
I can easily transfer money between people.
I have no fear of theft.
I have no need for gold or gold equivalents.
I prefer not to speculate in my investments.

Bitcoin answers a question that most people aren’t asking to get answered. Bitcoin has no value added for me.
Last edited by EnjoyIt on Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bitdocmd
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:41 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:37 pm
I the things that Bitcoin appears to do, I have no use for.

I almost never use cash. Credit cards cover me plus I get points.
I can travel overseas and use the same credit cards there and get more points.
My credit cards are accepted all around the world.
I can store my wealth electronically.
I can easy take out cash and anonymously pay for a crime (not that I would.)
I have no fear of confiscation.
I can easily transfer money between people.
I have no fear of theft.
I have no need for gold or gold equivalents.
I prefer not to speculate in my investments.

Bitcoin answers a question that most people aren’t asking to get answered. Bitcoin has no value added for me.
It sounds like you should not buy bitcoin.

bitdocmd
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Vision wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:11 am
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114141&p=1659343#p1659343

I was shooed off by Bogleheads in 2013 for suggesting cryptos, my thread got locked ,etc.., but if you look at fundamental truths you will see that:
In 2013 the price was I think $145 and you mentioned that as an all-time high. One responder said he wanted to get in but thought he was too late. Yet seven years later some people almost as a knee-jerk reaction still write it off as a fad, scam, pyramid scheme. I just don't get it. I'm a huge Scott Adams fan - this is a "two movies on one screen" scenario.

User avatar
WingsFan4Life
Posts: 49
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Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by WingsFan4Life » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:33 pm

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

This is the reason why I don't believe bitcoin is the future.

The carbon footprint of the currency is the size of New Zealand and the energy use per year is the same as Chile, just to keep the transactions rolling.

One transaction has the same carbon footprint as 764,000 Visa transactions.

over45
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by over45 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:51 pm

I don't understand Bitcoin. Tried to learn about it but it appears that it's value is derived as being part of the system. Take away electricity and throw in a govt reg or two and what could happen to it? Seems like pure speculation to me - but then again tulips were once the rage. I've got a yard full of tulips coming up this spring.

EnjoyIt
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:28 pm

bitdocmd wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:41 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:37 pm
I the things that Bitcoin appears to do, I have no use for.

I almost never use cash. Credit cards cover me plus I get points.
I can travel overseas and use the same credit cards there and get more points.
My credit cards are accepted all around the world.
I can store my wealth electronically.
I can easy take out cash and anonymously pay for a crime (not that I would.)
I have no fear of confiscation.
I can easily transfer money between people.
I have no fear of theft.
I have no need for gold or gold equivalents.
I prefer not to speculate in my investments.

Bitcoin answers a question that most people aren’t asking to get answered. Bitcoin has no value added for me.
It sounds like you should not buy bitcoin.
You are correct, I will not be buying Bitcoin. I have no use for it.

franks
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:07 am

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by franks » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:12 am

"Yes it’s a digital currency. 50 million users. Whole Foods and Starbucks accept bitcoins!" I wonder how exactly you would pay for these products? is bitcoin like something you take out of your wallet and pay or is it a virtual wallet you pay with your phone and it sells enough of your holdings to cover the purchase. just curious.

Anon9001
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Location: भारत

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by Anon9001 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:20 am

I am far more flexible in regards to my investments than other people here but even I would not invest in this. The only value it has is it's use for evading capital controls and buying illegal goods. The issue is why should it be trading at the current price for this purpose? The more people who use it the slower it gets at processing transactions so people who want to use it for this purpose would want the price to be as low as possible.

nocebo
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:39 pm

Re: Who’s Buying Bitcoin?

Post by nocebo » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:04 pm

over45 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:51 pm
I don't understand Bitcoin. Tried to learn about it but it appears that it's value is derived as being part of the system. Take away electricity and throw in a govt reg or two and what could happen to it? Seems like pure speculation to me - but then again tulips were once the rage. I've got a yard full of tulips coming up this spring.
how do you reconcile the time length of tulip mania vs the length of bitcoin "mania"?

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