Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
toofache32
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by toofache32 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:09 pm

How is this different or worse than the flu every year? I haven't been following the news on this.

Topic Author
TomCat96
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by TomCat96 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:12 pm

toofache32 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:09 pm
How is this different or worse than the flu every year? I haven't been following the news on this.
It is different from the flu because Governments are not treating it like the flu.

LittleMaggieMae
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by LittleMaggieMae » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:17 pm

How am I prepping? I'm kinda slightly more motivated to revise the beneficiaries on some of my accounts (they are about 10 years out of date). I'm single no kids.. so I'm not too worried about leaving a spouse in financial trouble should I meet an untimely death by Virus.

Unfortunately I know a lot of "old people" and people with some big health issues - the one's most likely to die from this coronavirus. Heck, the regular flu can be a concern for most of them - much less one that's got a higher death rate. That alone makes me a little sad when thinking too much about what it might be like if the coronavirus becomes widespread.

Other than that - there's not much to "prep" - got plenty of food, water, and stuff I could do if I had to stay home for a couple of weeks AND I wasn't sick. Because I live alone - it could be tricky if I do get sick... no one here to make the call on me being sick enough to rate going to the doctor/hospital and taking me there. Don't want to Kodokushi :) I suspect if the virus hits my area - my friends and I would circle the wagons and atleast communicate daily - just to check in on how everyone is doing.

I'm doing a "stock up" of cat food/kitty litter in the next two weeks (this always happens around this time of the year - the stuff from the "early November" stock up is getting low. They've got vet appts so I'll have 90 days of meds for them as well. The cats will be in good shape (and would probably really like it if I was stuck at home for a length of time.)

All that said, at this point I'm thinking we're pretty 'safe' from the virus. I have a morbid streak and know about the previous pandemics (and the other diseases like polo, TB, whooping cough, measles, scarlet fever, etc.)

I do find it very odd that Africa and South America hasn't had a documented case of the coronavirus - China is a big trading partner for both of them.
Last edited by LittleMaggieMae on Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BolderBoy
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by BolderBoy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:18 pm

For those interested, Johns Hopkins U has a regularly updated website map which is tracking the epidemic #s.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

And to answer OP's question, I'm not doing anything different than I usually do (and I spent a career as a healthcare provider).
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

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Watty
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Watty » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:22 pm

One other thing I thought of.

I made sure that I had some household bleach in case I needed to use it as a disinfectant.

I already did.

LuigiLikesPizza
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by LuigiLikesPizza » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:34 pm

I bought a quart of Hibiclens before it goes out of stock.

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SevenBridgesRoad
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by SevenBridgesRoad » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:35 pm

Family is doing nothing different. We are diligent each flu season about hand hygiene, so we don't have to change behavior this season for a new respiratory virus.

I can't remember the name of the cognitive bias that is at play here, throwing off our risk assessment because coronavirus is all over the news and other higher risks are not reported every hour. Maybe someone can remind me.
Retired 2018 age 61 / VPW / VTINX mirrored / No mortgage. No debt / Good enough | "Not using an alarm is one of the great glories of my life." Robert Greene

rjbraun
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by rjbraun » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:45 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:52 pm
rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
I have several months of foreign travel planned starting later this spring. I accept the fact that the coronavirus, or something else that we haven't even thought of yet, might disrupt my plans. I have travel medical and trip evacuation insurance.
I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
Email from MedJetAssist:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEDJET SERVICES ALERT
As of 2/5/2020
Dear Medjet Member,

Please be aware that due to restrictions resulting from the Coronavirus, we regret that MedjetAssist and MedjetHorizon services must be suspended in the following countries:
China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
Macau
New information and increasing flight restrictions continue to be disseminated from the World Health Organization, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. State Department. Due to this, Medjet services to additional countries may become restricted in the future.

Thank you for your understanding.

More information on the Coronavirus and official updates on areas affected can be found below:
http://go.pardot.com/e/130221/navirus-2 ... fJ-1DpvLLo

If you are currently in a restricted or partially restricted area, the State Department contact for emergency assistance is linked below:
coronavirusemergencyUSC@state.gov

Continued updates on Medjet services and any additional restrictions are available on our website. Click the link on our homepage....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RM
Thanks, RM.

I'm still not clear, though, whether MedJet would honor the coverage that I had (let's say) taken out earlier for an October 2020 China / HK et al trip.

While I would think that they would be contractually required to provide coverage (note to self: check that any future medical insurance / evacuation insurance I take out doesn't have this loophole). At a minimum I would want to be made whole in the event MedJet will not cover my trip and as a result I decide to cancel my plans. And being made whole to me would mean that they would cover any costs in full that I would incur to cancel flights and any other expenses as a result of the cancelled trip (hotel stays, tour costs, tickets for cultural or other events, etc.)

palanzo
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by palanzo » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:51 pm

JediMisty wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:32 pm
TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:56 pm
We have a number of threads on Coronavirus, but I want this one to specifically focus on consumer issues and how you are preparing.

The way I see it, risk of infection is not the same as risk of quarantine; or to put things even more broadly, risk of weathering the effects of quarantine. I do not need to be exposed to be quarantined, I don't even need to be around people who are exposed. All that need happen is that I be around people who are suspected of being exposed.

In the same vein, one does not need to be hit by a hurricane to weather shortages in supplies.

My prep so far:

1. Stocking up on disposable N95 masks. Easier said than done.
2. Stocking up on all non-perishable consumables. (Lotion, Toilet Paper, Paper Towels, etc)
3. Stocking up on long lasting consumables. Rice, Oatmeal, water, cereal, peanut butter, wine, dried meats, oil & spices, beans.


What if anything are you doing to prepare?
The masks are pretty much useless. The virus can be breathed and sneezed right through it. There is a non-zero risk of being short on supplies as a consequence of a quarantine. To your supplies, perhaps add canned soups, and load up on bottled water and Gatorade. Also paper plates and plastic forks, spoons and knives. These items are to aid you in looking after a household member who has the virus. In a pandemic, there will be almost no medical care available. Also, make sure you have disposable gloves and a thermometer that has those little plastic covers. Minimizing contact while offering fluids and food to an infected person is a good strategy. While not as deadly as Ebola, I would treat the waste from persons infected as medical waste. Double bag and avoid touching. Keep elderly and kids from the infected person. Meanwhile, over 12k people have died from the common flu this season. So wash your hands a lot and don't share towels.
The masks are not useless. Respiratory viruses transmit mostly through droplet spread or in some cases by fomite spread. If they were useless then frontline medical staff would not be using them.
Last edited by palanzo on Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

curmudgeon
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by curmudgeon » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:07 pm

I live in earthquake country. If something like the 1964 Alaska earthquake were to be centered here in the bay area, the infrastructure damage and disruption could be massive. Every few years I do a mental inventory of our ability to get by for a couple of weeks without outside support. Since we are in a suburban house, keep a reasonable amount of canned/dry food on hand, and have some camping/backpacking gear, so far it has come out that I don't feel any need for special additional preparation. If I lived in an apartment, I might think about having one of those supply buckets in the closet.

If I had an important dependence on something currently only manufactured in China, I might be more concerned about preparing for coronavirus impact.

I DO expect some level of behavioral change, both now, and more if it becomes widespread here. Not necessarily wearing masks, but things like avoiding handshakes, not going to the grocery store as frequently for small purchases, being more aware of washing hands, avoiding rubbing my eyes, etc.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:09 pm

rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:45 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:52 pm
rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
I have several months of foreign travel planned starting later this spring. I accept the fact that the coronavirus, or something else that we haven't even thought of yet, might disrupt my plans. I have travel medical and trip evacuation insurance.
I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
Email from MedJetAssist:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEDJET SERVICES ALERT
As of 2/5/2020
Dear Medjet Member,

Please be aware that due to restrictions resulting from the Coronavirus, we regret that MedjetAssist and MedjetHorizon services must be suspended in the following countries:
China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
Macau
New information and increasing flight restrictions continue to be disseminated from the World Health Organization, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. State Department. Due to this, Medjet services to additional countries may become restricted in the future.

Thank you for your understanding.

More information on the Coronavirus and official updates on areas affected can be found below:
http://go.pardot.com/e/130221/navirus-2 ... fJ-1DpvLLo

If you are currently in a restricted or partially restricted area, the State Department contact for emergency assistance is linked below:
coronavirusemergencyUSC@state.gov

Continued updates on Medjet services and any additional restrictions are available on our website. Click the link on our homepage....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RM
Thanks, RM.

I'm still not clear, though, whether MedJet would honor the coverage that I had (let's say) taken out earlier for an October 2020 China / HK et al trip.

While I would think that they would be contractually required to provide coverage (note to self: check that any future medical insurance / evacuation insurance I take out doesn't have this loophole). At a minimum I would want to be made whole in the event MedJet will not cover my trip and as a result I decide to cancel my plans. And being made whole to me would mean that they would cover any costs in full that I would incur to cancel flights and any other expenses as a result of the cancelled trip (hotel stays, tour costs, tickets for cultural or other events, etc.)
Alas... you and we would be just "stuck" and left to our own resources (plus, perhaps the USA government, who will assist citizens needing help getting home... to wit, those flights to the USA - and also in other ways/times).

MJA will not/cannot go if there are the more serious USA government alert levels.
We did not realize this, until now, and we had, indeed, been thinking "at least we have MJA..." Ouch!

Also, don't forget that MJA ONLY kicks in once a subscriber is already admitted as an INpatient.
But I'm guessing that we would have found our own way out/home before it got that bad... but in other situations, there may not be much advance notice/warning/etc.

We aren't happy about this (realizing this), no surprise. We'll look into some other services, but none that we have yet found have some of the key features of MJA.
OTOH, we *can* cover the costs of regular airfare home, even if pricey That's quite different from the cost of inter-continental air ambulance!

Sigh.

But note: regular travel insurance would usually cover those other expenses you've listed, and MJA doesn't ever cover those.
Regular travel insurance might also cover flights home, including air ambulance (assuming they are able to operate). MJA's main calling card for us is the ability for US to decide to be moved, and not left in a small, "inferior" (by our or others'
determinations) hospital.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

Dottie57
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:12 pm

The one thing I worry about is medication. I take 2 -3 medications which help me breathe better (asthma). I am not sure where they are manufactured. Hopefully there won’t be shortages. I think manufactured items may be at risk.

toofache32
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by toofache32 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:29 pm

SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:35 pm
Family is doing nothing different. We are diligent each flu season about hand hygiene, so we don't have to change behavior this season for a new respiratory virus.

I can't remember the name of the cognitive bias that is at play here, throwing off our risk assessment because coronavirus is all over the news and other higher risks are not reported every hour. Maybe someone can remind me.
About 7-8 years ago, shark attacks were all over the news. There were multiple shark attacks at beaches which the media plastered everywhere. Turns out, the number of actual shark attacks that summer was lower than the usual yearly average. But the media business was slow so they created hysteria.

10-15 years before that, a group of mountain climbers died on Mt. Everest. There were multiple journal, newspaper and film documentaries on how this was a horrible tragedy. Turns out, Everest had the lowest number of deaths on the mountain that year compared to the prior decade.

How do we know the same media frenzy is not going on here? How is this virus specifically different from every other virus/flu we see every year?

Topic Author
TomCat96
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by TomCat96 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:35 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:12 pm
The one thing I worry about is medication. I take 2 -3 medications which help me breathe better (asthma). I am not sure where they are manufactured. Hopefully there won’t be shortages. I think manufactured items may be at risk.


https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/file ... 152019.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

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tvubpwcisla
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by tvubpwcisla » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:42 pm

Not sure exactly how wearing a mask will assist you in not getting the virus. More germs enter through your eyes and ears. Perhaps a paper bag over your head?

palanzo
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by palanzo » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:45 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:09 pm
rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:45 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:52 pm
rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm

I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
Email from MedJetAssist:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEDJET SERVICES ALERT
As of 2/5/2020
Dear Medjet Member,

Please be aware that due to restrictions resulting from the Coronavirus, we regret that MedjetAssist and MedjetHorizon services must be suspended in the following countries:
China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
Macau
New information and increasing flight restrictions continue to be disseminated from the World Health Organization, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. State Department. Due to this, Medjet services to additional countries may become restricted in the future.

Thank you for your understanding.

More information on the Coronavirus and official updates on areas affected can be found below:
http://go.pardot.com/e/130221/navirus-2 ... fJ-1DpvLLo

If you are currently in a restricted or partially restricted area, the State Department contact for emergency assistance is linked below:
coronavirusemergencyUSC@state.gov

Continued updates on Medjet services and any additional restrictions are available on our website. Click the link on our homepage....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RM
Thanks, RM.

I'm still not clear, though, whether MedJet would honor the coverage that I had (let's say) taken out earlier for an October 2020 China / HK et al trip.

While I would think that they would be contractually required to provide coverage (note to self: check that any future medical insurance / evacuation insurance I take out doesn't have this loophole). At a minimum I would want to be made whole in the event MedJet will not cover my trip and as a result I decide to cancel my plans. And being made whole to me would mean that they would cover any costs in full that I would incur to cancel flights and any other expenses as a result of the cancelled trip (hotel stays, tour costs, tickets for cultural or other events, etc.)
Alas... you and we would be just "stuck" and left to our own resources (plus, perhaps the USA government, who will assist citizens needing help getting home... to wit, those flights to the USA - and also in other ways/times).

MJA will not/cannot go if there are the more serious USA government alert levels.
We did not realize this, until now, and we had, indeed, been thinking "at least we have MJA..." Ouch!

Also, don't forget that MJA ONLY kicks in once a subscriber is already admitted as an INpatient.
But I'm guessing that we would have found our own way out/home before it got that bad... but in other situations, there may not be much advance notice/warning/etc.

We aren't happy about this (realizing this), no surprise. We'll look into some other services, but none that we have yet found have some of the key features of MJA.
OTOH, we *can* cover the costs of regular airfare home, even if pricey That's quite different from the cost of inter-continental air ambulance!

Sigh.

But note: regular travel insurance would usually cover those other expenses you've listed, and MJA doesn't ever cover those.
Regular travel insurance might also cover flights home, including air ambulance (assuming they are able to operate). MJA's main calling card for us is the ability for US to decide to be moved, and not left in a small, "inferior" (by our or others'
determinations) hospital.

RM
What is the point of insurance if it can be suspended? It is as if your homeowner's insurance was suspended by the insurance company after a wildfire.

oxothuk
Posts: 514
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by oxothuk » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:00 pm

rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
I have several months of foreign travel planned starting later this spring. I accept the fact that the coronavirus, or something else that we haven't even thought of yet, might disrupt my plans. I have travel medical and trip evacuation insurance.
I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
I haven’t checked, but I’m sure they have language in their policy that allows them to exclude situations like this - risks which are impossible to quantify, and hence impossible to price.

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9-5 Suited
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by 9-5 Suited » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:09 pm

toofache32 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:09 pm
How is this different or worse than the flu every year? I haven't been following the news on this.
Not following the news is why it doesn't feel different. The only thing different is the level of sensationalism in the news. A lot of misplaced worry in this thread and others, as there are dozens of things more likely to kill every Boglehead than Coronavirus.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:25 pm

oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:00 pm
rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
I have several months of foreign travel planned starting later this spring. I accept the fact that the coronavirus, or something else that we haven't even thought of yet, might disrupt my plans. I have travel medical and trip evacuation insurance.
I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
I haven’t checked, but I’m sure they have language in their policy that allows them to exclude situations like this - risks which are impossible to quantify, and hence impossible to price.
I had written to MJA when I heard that they weren't going to "help" in China, after a certain date. They had NOT sent any notification, and that was part of my complaint.

Their response was:

" Thank you for your membership with Medjet! China is currently a level 3 on the U.S. Department of State's travel advisory website travel.state.gov. Per our Rules and Regulations, we do not transport from areas listed as a level 3 or 4. Due to the government imposed travel restrictions resulting from the Coronavirus, we are currently not transporting from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Macau at this time. We have placed this update on the homepage of the website. I apologize for any inconvenience or confusion! Should you have questions about future locations, please feel free to either reference travel.state.gov or give us a call and we would be happy to assist you!"

I complained (strongly) that most of their *current* subscribers were probably *NOT* in the habit of looking at MJA's "homepage", if we aren't seeking information about possibly subscribing, etc.

They gave an "unsatisfactory" reply, but... not long thereafter, they obviously did the mass emailing that I copied above.
Indeed, most of the others with whom I communicate about MJA were not aware of this, either... yet.

So they do have it listed, and it was "on us" to be aware of all of the terms.
(We would have called them immediately upon being admitted as an inpatient that far from home, so it would only have affected us if the timing had been quite a coincidence of several factors. But that's not impossible, obviously.)

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

palanzo
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by palanzo » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:28 pm

tvubpwcisla wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:42 pm
Not sure exactly how wearing a mask will assist you in not getting the virus. More germs enter through your eyes and ears. Perhaps a paper bag over your head?
Respiratory viruses transmit mostly through droplet spread or in some cases by fomite spread.

I don't think a paper bag will help you much!

bob60014
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by bob60014 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:43 pm

I am currently in Singapore and the reports of empty grocery store shelves, no toilet paper and no masks are greatly exaggerated. In a effort to stop hoarding limits are being placed on purchases.

mrsbetsy
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by mrsbetsy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:44 pm

No, I'm not worried about it but I do wash my hands all the time, which is normal for me.

I'm more worried about the >100K in orders we have in China and the plant is still closed and then it still has to make the slow boat ride here. So far, we are okay, but the economic impact of all this is real.

Mrs. Betsy

toofache32
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by toofache32 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:50 pm

Will I get my new iPhone on time???

theplayer11
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by theplayer11 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:30 am

nothing, no need to change a thing at this point

Pierre Delecto
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Pierre Delecto » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:36 am

I bought boxes of high end 3M N95 masks a few weeks back after flying though SFO airport and seeing many Chinese in masks. Might flip them for a profit now as I hear they’re selling at a major premium online.

lostdog
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by lostdog » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:53 am

Just brushed my teeth and went to bed. Good night.
Global Market Cap Equity || Taxable: VTSAX+VTIAX || IRA: VTWAX

Dottie57
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:56 am

TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:35 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:12 pm
The one thing I worry about is medication. I take 2 -3 medications which help me breathe better (asthma). I am not sure where they are manufactured. Hopefully there won’t be shortages. I think manufactured items may be at risk.


https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/file ... 152019.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
I remember reading about this. I just did not save the references.

manatee2005
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by manatee2005 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:30 am

Caduceus wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:40 pm
I am researching places that might have discounted airfares and hotels from all the coronavirus paranoia so that I can fly there at cheaper prices.
Wuhan?

Breezy
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Breezy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:58 am

rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
I have several months of foreign travel planned starting later this spring. I accept the fact that the coronavirus, or something else that we haven't even thought of yet, might disrupt my plans. I have travel medical and trip evacuation insurance.
I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
I read an interview with one passenger stuck on one of the cruise ships that she contacted MedJet & they were willing to evacuate her from the cruise ship but the powers that be nixed that as it basically defeated the whole point of the quarantine. I was impressed with MedJet. I would call before buying it at this point.

Breezy
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Breezy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:02 am

In terms of the original question, I placed an order for my contact lenses earlier than I would have figuring the factory they’re made in might be shut down for a time and life would really be difficult for me without them!

Also, while at Costco this week I was hyper aware of all the things I touched and how many opportunities I had to pick up a virus. I decided that if/when this thing picks up steam I will start having my groceries delivered for sure!

thermalfama
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by thermalfama » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:06 am

I think the OP's concern is valid. CoVid has the potential to be a lot worse than the flu. Ask the Chinese if you have any doubt. The R0 (transmissivity) is way higher (at least in China), the case fatality rate is way higher, the rate of serious complications is way higher, and there's no herd immunity to the virus, and the mighty facts that this can be transmitted without symptoms and it has a long incubation period. So how CoVid's stats in the US so far compare to the flu is irrelevant. They will be relevant once this is all said and done, but not now.

I've stocked up on non-perishable food (lentils and beans mainly, mostly food I'll eat anyway), toilet paper, sanitizer, bleach, etc., any medicine we regularly use, and also ibuprofen, cough syrup, and oral rehydration salts (although a paper published by Chinese scientists later said that diarrhea is rare). I'm prepared to self-isolate if necessary, and to treat at home if we get it and hospitals are overwhelmed. I already had N95s (if you don't need them right away, don't try to get them now that they are already in short supply), and I purchased safety goggles that wrap all-around (it can be transmitted through the eyes) just in case. I also got some cash out of the bank in case ATMs become unreliable.
This virus could end up not being much of a threat outside China when it's all over, but if that's not the case, I don't want to be in the same boat as the unprepared masses when an entire country realizes that they want to prepare and chaos ensues.
peakprosperity.com has been doing an excellent coverage of the virus, and a lot of misconceptions that have been voiced above have been debunked (their Youtube videos are free).

Anon9001
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Anon9001 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:23 am

TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:56 pm
We have a number of threads on Coronavirus, but I want this one to specifically focus on consumer issues and how you are preparing.

The way I see it, risk of infection is not the same as risk of quarantine; or to put things even more broadly, risk of weathering the effects of quarantine. I do not need to be exposed to be quarantined, I don't even need to be around people who are exposed. All that need happen is that I be around people who are suspected of being exposed.

In the same vein, one does not need to be hit by a hurricane to weather shortages in supplies.

My prep so far:

1. Stocking up on disposable N95 masks. Easier said than done.
2. Stocking up on all non-perishable consumables. (Lotion, Toilet Paper, Paper Towels, etc)
3. Stocking up on long lasting consumables. Rice, Oatmeal, water, cereal, peanut butter, wine, dried meats, oil & spices, beans.


What if anything are you doing to prepare?

Edited:
Additional things I am doing.
-Moving up doctors appointments and lab tests. I tend to procrastinate on my checkups anyways.
-Picking up extra HEPA air filters.
I am doing absolutely nothing considering I am young guy living outside of China. Most of deaths seem to effect elderly people who are living in China. My country recently had a Nipah outbreak which had a 50% mortality rate compared to this virus which is having 2% fatility rate and I made it out fine.

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mhc
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by mhc » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:50 am

nisiprius wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:50 pm
Many, many years ago I would refrain from shaking hands with people when I had a cold, but that is so impolite and it sort of half-freaked people out... and it's downright insulting to refuse somebody else's hand if they offer it. I kind of wish the authorities would conduct a serious campaign to convince people to stop doing it, but I'm not ready to fight centuries of human tradition on my own.
Some segments of our culture have moved away from shaking hands. There are alternatives.

> The fist bump
> The chest bump
> The ‘sup head nod
> The one-finger point
> The wink and gun
> The standard wave

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ResearchMed
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:53 am

Breezy wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:58 am
rjbraun wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:37 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
I have several months of foreign travel planned starting later this spring. I accept the fact that the coronavirus, or something else that we haven't even thought of yet, might disrupt my plans. I have travel medical and trip evacuation insurance.
I too have medical evacuation insurance (MedJet), but they have already suspended coverage in China. If the pandemic spreads widely, this could extend to other areas as well.
How does that work? I am asking out of general interest -- not because of immediate concerns about coronavirus or any particular travel plans.

Do you mean that MetJet isn't writing new policies at this time for coverage in China? But if one bought a policy, before news of the coronavirus outbreak, for travel to China in, say, October 2020 would MetJet still honor the policy (assuming flights resume, etc. and one could get themselves to China for said trip)?
I read an interview with one passenger stuck on one of the cruise ships that she contacted MedJet & they were willing to evacuate her from the cruise ship but the powers that be nixed that as it basically defeated the whole point of the quarantine. I was impressed with MedJet. I would call before buying it at this point.
The cruise ship is in quarantine in Japan. I haven't heard that MJA (or the US government) has categorized Japan with the other affected locations in China.

But the problem is still dealing with governments. Their "rules" are going to override any contracts we all have with any companies: MJA, the cruise lines, or others.

I think the poor Holland America Westerdam finally country/port that was willing to take them so they could offload their passengers. I'm not sure what their Plan B would have been if they hadn't found any place. (And I'm not sure they had any known coronavirus cases on board. Everyone is so worried.)

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

thermalfama
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by thermalfama » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:57 am

Anon9001 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:23 am
I am doing absolutely nothing considering I am young guy living outside of China. Most of deaths seem to effect elderly people who are living in China. My country recently had a Nipah outbreak which had a 50% mortality rate compared to this virus which is having 2% fatility rate and I made it out fine.
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipah_virus_infection ) says there were ~700 human infections with Nipah. The Chinese are kind of past 700 cases in the first 2 months, so the ease of transmission of Nipah must be a tad lower. I wouldn't compare them.

squirm
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by squirm » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:36 am

doing nothing.

MDfan
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by MDfan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:44 am

Going to try and get through Narcos-Mexico season 2 before it hits Maryland.

lazydavid
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by lazydavid » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:57 am

We were already planning on going on a cruise next summer (July/Aug 2021), but haven't booked anything. I'm now starting to watch fares closely, though I suspect it will be a month or more before they bottom out. Read yesterday that bookings are already down by 15%. "Be bold while others are fearful", and all that jazz. :twisted:

Call_Me_Op
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Call_Me_Op » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:22 am

tvubpwcisla wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:42 pm
Not sure exactly how wearing a mask will assist you in not getting the virus. More germs enter through your eyes and ears. Perhaps a paper bag over your head?
How do they enter through the ears when that path is blocked by the tympanic membrane (eardrum)?
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

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Ramjet
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by Ramjet » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:30 am

lazydavid wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:57 am
We were already planning on going on a cruise next summer (July/Aug 2021), but haven't booked anything. I'm now starting to watch fares closely, though I suspect it will be a month or more before they bottom out. Read yesterday that bookings are already down by 15%. "Be bold while others are fearful", and all that jazz. :twisted:
You are playing with fire my friend!

Good luck

quantAndHold
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by quantAndHold » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:34 am

toofache32 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:09 pm
How is this different or worse than the flu every year? I haven't been following the news on this.
It’s different because China is pretty much completely closed and shows no signs of reopening anytime soon. The rest of the world gets all its stuff from China. There’s already another thread where people are complaining about their eyeglass orders being hung up because they’re coming from China.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.

flaccidsteele
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by flaccidsteele » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:36 am

15 cases in the US?

How am I preparing?

I look both ways before crossing the street so I don’t get run over by a driver infected with coronavirus
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat

carne_asada
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by carne_asada » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:53 am

At the moment: I'm more concerned about Chinese supply chain disruptions. I stocked up on formula ,wipes and diapers (but not much else) as these things are already pricey and I wanted to hedge any price shocks caused by potential upstream supply chain issues for these products. Even if products are domestically made - packaging and some ingredients may still be Chinese sourced.

seawolf21
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by seawolf21 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:00 pm

I echo comments earlier on people being really bad at risk assessment.

A lot more people infected/die from the flu each year yet a lot of people don't get flu shots but make a run on N95 and surgical masks.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

You have better luck winning a lottery prize than getting this virus in the US thanks to the steps airlines/governments have taken to contain it. Furthermore getting virus does not equate death. There are 1,400 deaths in China out of 60,000 cases (less than 3%).
TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:12 pm
toofache32 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:09 pm
How is this different or worse than the flu every year? I haven't been following the news on this.
It is different from the flu because Governments are not treating it like the flu.
Governments are treating it differently because there is an opportunity to contain it.

dknightd
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by dknightd » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:18 pm

I do find myself washing my hands more than normal. So I guess stock on hand wash?
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds.

GaryA505
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by GaryA505 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:22 pm

The mortality rate from the modern seasonal Flu is something approximately 0.1% and kills about 300,000 to 600,000 people per year.
The mortality rate from Covid-19 (the Chinese novel virus) is between 2% and 3%, which is 20X to 30X higher than the seasonal Flu.
The Chinese authorities are most certainly under-reporting both total cases and deaths.
If this goes pandemic before a vaccine is available (reported to be about 18 months out), it could get real ugly.

Incidentally, I am a survivor of the 1957-1958 Asian Flu which only had a mortality rate of about 0.2% but killed somewhere between 1 million and 2 million people worldwide. They didn't see that one coming, either.

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grayfox
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by grayfox » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:37 pm

TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:56 pm
We have a number of threads on Coronavirus, but I want this one to specifically focus on consumer issues and how you are preparing.

The way I see it, risk of infection is not the same as risk of quarantine; or to put things even more broadly, risk of weathering the effects of quarantine. I do not need to be exposed to be quarantined, I don't even need to be around people who are exposed. All that need happen is that I be around people who are suspected of being exposed.

In the same vein, one does not need to be hit by a hurricane to weather shortages in supplies.

My prep so far:

1. Stocking up on disposable N95 masks. Easier said than done.
2. Stocking up on all non-perishable consumables. (Lotion, Toilet Paper, Paper Towels, etc)
3. Stocking up on long lasting consumables. Rice, Oatmeal, water, cereal, peanut butter, wine, dried meats, oil & spices, beans.


What if anything are you doing to prepare?

Edited:
Additional things I am doing.
-Moving up doctors appointments and lab tests. I tend to procrastinate on my checkups anyways.
-Picking up extra HEPA air filters.
I ordered a case of 12 MREs from Amazon.com for $98.98. Free shipping. Along with a box of instant oatmeal for breakfast I can stretch one case to last for 2 weeks. This is also good hiking and camping food.
For road trips, I will throw a case of MREs in the trunk. If my automobile gets stuck in a snowstorm, or I get stuck in the mud off-road, I have 2 weeks worth of food. I usually try to keep between 1 and 2 cases of MREs on hand. I consume one MRE per month.

For water, I have about 48 one-gallon plastic milk jugs full of water. This is mostly for washing and flushing the commode, if the water gets cut off.
I also live near a river, so I can re-fill water jugs from the river, as long as there are no zombies about.

I am also making sure I have two of most things in the pantry. E.g. when I finish a can of Spam, I buy another can, and so have 3 cans in the panty.

I need to pick up a gallon of white gas for a Coleman camping stove, in case the gas and electric go out.

I can probably stay holed up at home for at least a 6 to 8 weeks, if necessary.
Sic transit gloria mundi. [STGM]

cs412a
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by cs412a » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Blueskies123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:21 pm
If you want information by a qualified medical expert, be sure to check this guy's Youtube update each morning. No hype, only science-based information from reputable sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v16llL6YspY
Very informative, thanks.

:thumbsup

After watching a few of this gentleman's videos, I have a better understanding of why health officials are concerned and what the actual (as opposed to perceived) risks are. As I understand it, the measures he suggests one might take are actually very similar to the measures one would take to reduce risk of getting the flu.

clip651
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by clip651 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm

Many of us live in areas that are susceptible to one or more things like blizzards, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, power outages, wildfires, etc. It's always a good idea to have some emergency supplies available in case you need to shelter in place or evacuate.

So if you are the type that usually waits until you are on your last roll of toilet paper before heading out to buy more, you may want to rethink that. Not for coronavirus in particular, but for life in general. Various public health organizations have been recommending emergency preparedness plans and kits for many years. The topic often gets revisited during hurricane season, after other natural disasters, etc. And they keep reminding us because lots of people ignore the advice.

So being prepared with a few weeks of basic supplies is always a good idea. Panicking and buying bunches of supplies this week because coronavirus is in the news is not needed. And if lots of people do this, the panic itself will spread and cause its own problems.

So stay calm and take normal precautions. Have some basic emergency supplies. Wash your hands. Cover your cough or sneeze, stay home if you're sick. And stay calm. One of the reputable medical videos pointed out that something as simple as getting enough sleep can help your immune system protect you from viruses, including the ones you're likely to run into right now ... the flu!

cj

lazydavid
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Re: Coronavirus (Consumer Issues) How you are preparing?

Post by lazydavid » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:49 pm

Ramjet wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:30 am
lazydavid wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:57 am
We were already planning on going on a cruise next summer (July/Aug 2021), but haven't booked anything. I'm now starting to watch fares closely, though I suspect it will be a month or more before they bottom out. Read yesterday that bookings are already down by 15%. "Be bold while others are fearful", and all that jazz. :twisted:
You are playing with fire my friend!

Good luck
Why?

The primary risk is that 18 months from now:

1. There is still a significant chance of getting infected or quarantined on a US/Caribbean cruise, and
2. The cruise is not cancelled as a result of #1

The likelihood of both of those things being true seems pretty remote to me.

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