Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

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mas00
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Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:01 am

Hello,

I've been sitting on some money for a long time and while I'm great at saving, I have a horrible upbringing in investing/making my money work for me. I've been reading books, looking on forums, and reddit and I finally pulled the trigger opening a Vanguard account.

36
No Debt
Cashing Saving for 1 year
50K in Mutual Fund (not vanagurd)

Big thing.. I'm an artist, and I freelance contract, will (probably) never hold a salary job or have a 401K (faculty jobs are hard to get these days)

I maxed out my Roth IRA for 2019 &2020 while I still have the cash. I'm torn between going a 50/50 route or just investing in a target retirement fund. I've read a lot of literature lately that says a 50/50 will out perform a TRF even if it is a couple thousand. I know this bull market may end soon, so perhaps it's good to have bonds? I was planning 85%VTSAX and then 15% low cost bonds or just choose a TRF. Any insight would be helpful as I'm new to this.

I also read about Vanguard’s new fund Total World Index VTWAX, but need to look into that, anyone have any experience with this?

I should also note, that in addition to my Roth IRA I do plan on opening just a plain individual brokerage account to invest in some other ETF's and International stocks with some additional money I have laying around, not much about 10K

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Duckie
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by Duckie » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:55 pm

mas00, welcome to the forum.
mas00 wrote:I'm an artist, and I freelance contract, will (probably) never hold a salary job or have a 401K (faculty jobs are hard to get these days)
<snip>
I should also note, that in addition to my Roth IRA I do plan on opening just a plain individual brokerage account to invest in some other ETF's and International stocks with some additional money I have laying around, not much about 10K
As a self-employed person you can open and contribute to a small-business retirement plan like a SIMPLE IRA, SEP IRA, or solo 401k in addition to your personal Roth IRA. This would be better than investing in a taxable account. The SIMPLE IRA is the easiest to deal with and the solo 401k allows the most amount to be contributed.

retired@50
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by retired@50 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:15 pm

mas00 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:01 am
I'm torn between going a 50/50 route or just investing in a target retirement fund. I've read a lot of literature lately that says a 50/50 will out perform a TRF even if it is a couple thousand. I know this bull market may end soon, so perhaps it's good to have bonds? I was planning 85%VTSAX and then 15% low cost bonds or just choose a TRF. Any insight would be helpful as I'm new to this.
Hello,
Whatever you've been reading (italics above) sounds like a prediction. I wouldn't bother with predictions.

It appears you're struggling with the asset allocation decision. In other words, what mix of stocks and bonds will work for you. Some folks are drawn to the risk of the stock market, while others prefer the relative safety of the bond market. You might try an investor questionnaire, though, even these questionnaires have their detractors. No one can really tell what their risk preference is until they've been an investor for a while and lived through some market ups and downs. For your age, 36, assuming you really intend to put this money aside until retirement age, 59.5 or higher, I'd think somewhere around 70% stock / 30% bond might be a decent place to start. Of course you can make adjustments as time goes by if you're seeking more risk or more safety.

Investor questionnaire link at Vanguard.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/FundsI ... unds/tools

Regards,
Boggle - a game from Parker Brothers. Bogle - investor, founder of Vanguard.

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mas00
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm

Yes, I've taken the questionnaire already which had me at 70/30, but I will go 85/15.
I'm just struggling with if it's worth to go all in on target retirement date fund or just go 100% VTSAX

123
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by 123 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:25 pm

mas00 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
...I'm just struggling with if it's worth to go all in on target retirement date fund or just go 100% VTSAX
Some type of fund-of-funds, like a Target Retirement Date or LifeStrategy fund, will hide some of the day-to-day gyrations of the market from the investor since daily pricing only reflects the consolidated result. A pure index-based fund, like VTSAX, can make an investor more attuned to the daily up and down movements of the US stock market. There can be a certain value to the "buffering" of investment results in a blended fund so that investors don't sell too early based on their own personal anxiety.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by ruralavalon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:51 pm

Welcome to the forum :) .

It's great to see that you are debt free, and good at saving.

Please simply add any new information to your original post using the edit button (the pencil icon near the upper right corner of your post), it helps a lot if all of your information is in one place.


mas00 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:01 am
Hello,

I've been sitting on some money for a long time and while I'm great at saving, I have a horrible upbringing in investing/making my money work for me. I've been reading books, looking on forums, and reddit and I finally pulled the trigger opening a Vanguard account.

36
No Debt
Cashing Saving for 1 year
50K in Mutual Fund (not vanagurd)

Big thing.. I'm an artist, and I freelance contract, will (probably) never hold a salary job or have a 401K (faculty jobs are hard to get these days)

I maxed out my Roth IRA for 2019 &2020 while I still have the cash. I'm torn between going a 50/50 route or just investing in a target retirement fund. I've read a lot of literature lately that says a 50/50 will out perform a TRF even if it is a couple thousand. I know this bull market may end soon, so perhaps it's good to have bonds? I was planning 85%VTSAX and then 15% low cost bonds or just choose a TRF. Any insight would be helpful as I'm new to this.

I also read about Vanguard’s new fund Total World Index VTWAX, but need to look into that, anyone have any experience with this?

I should also note, that in addition to my Roth IRA I do plan on opening just a plain individual brokerage account to invest in some other ETF's and International stocks with some additional money I have laying around, not much about 10K
mas00 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Yes, I've taken the questionnaire already which had me at 70/30, but I will go 85/15.
I'm just struggling with if it's worth to go all in on target retirement date fund or just go 100% VTSAX
In my opinion at age 36 an asset allocation of around 20-30% fixed income (bond fund, CDs, etc.) would be reasonable.

It is important to coordinate investments among all accounts, treating all accounts together as a single unified portfolio.

What fund do you have here "50K in Mutual Fund (not vanagurd)" ? What type of account is this? What fund firm or brokerage is this account with?

I see that you will be putting about $10k into a new taxable brokerage account.

This will all impact what best to use in your new Roth IRA.

About how much (in dollars) do you believe that you may be able to contribute annually to investing? There are plans available for the self-employed like a SEP IRA, SIMPLE IRA, and individual (solo) 401k.

What is your tax bracket, both federal and state?
Last edited by ruralavalon on Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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1789
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by 1789 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:57 pm

85% US TSM and 15% US bonds looks good.Just try sticking with the plan
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by typical.investor » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:24 pm

I vote TRF in the ROTH:

+ high stock allocation at your age
+ includes international equities which have lower valuations
+ will rebalance internally so if US stocks plunge, you'll rotate in at more favorable prices

In a few decades though when the TRF starts in increase bonds, I would go all stocks in the ROTH for growth and put your bonds in a solo 401k or taxable (munis perhaps depending on income).

Or you could 70% VTSAX 30%, VTIAX in the ROTH now.

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mas00
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:31 pm

What fund do you have here "50K in Mutual Fund (not vanagurd)" ? What type of account is this? What fund firm or brokerage is this account with?

I have USAA
USSCX and USGRX. USSCX has never made me any $ It's only $7
To be honest, I've never even looked into this mutual funds, to try and change it. It was given to me by my grandparents at birth at I think $500 or $1,000 and my dad set it up for an aggressive reinvesting dividend plan. I've only taken $3,000 out during grad school for a grant which I put the money right back in when I got the money from my school.
About how much (in dollars) do you believe that you may be able to contribute annually to investing? There are plans available for the self-employed like a SEP IRA, SIMPLE IRA, and individual (solo) 401k.

What is your tax bracket, both federal and state?

Well fIrst i will max out my Roth IRA that I just started. I'm not sure because my income fluctuates every year. Sometimes I go 1 full year making $65 pr/hr then I have about 3-4 months of no work. I would say i hope to invest between $5,000 and $10,000 a year.

I live in TX no state tax, I'm single with a higher than average income, but not wealthy.

Question can I set up a solo 401K in Vanguard?

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ruralavalon
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by ruralavalon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:09 pm

mas00 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:31 pm
What fund do you have here "50K in Mutual Fund (not vanagurd)" ? What type of account is this? What fund firm or brokerage is this account with?

I have USAA
USSCX and USGRX. USSCX has never made me any $ It's only $7
To be honest, I've never even looked into this mutual funds, to try and change it. It was given to me by my grandparents at birth at I think $500 or $1,000 and my dad set it up for an aggressive reinvesting dividend plan. I've only taken $3,000 out during grad school for a grant which I put the money right back in when I got the money from my school.
About how much (in dollars) do you believe that you may be able to contribute annually to investing? There are plans available for the self-employed like a SEP IRA, SIMPLE IRA, and individual (solo) 401k.

What is your tax bracket, both federal and state?

Well fIrst i will max out my Roth IRA that I just started. I'm not sure because my income fluctuates every year. Sometimes I go 1 full year making $65 pr/hr then I have about 3-4 months of no work. I would say i hope to invest between $5,000 and $10,000 a year.

I live in TX no state tax, I'm single with a higher than average income, but not wealthy.

Question can I set up a solo 401K in Vanguard?
Please include fund names, don't just use ticker symbols. That makes more work for anyone who wants to help you, it requires us to lookup what you are referring to.

USAA Cornerstone Conservative (USCCX) ER 0.63%, 25% stocks and 75% bonds.

USAA Growth & Income (USGRX) ER 0.89%, large-cap U.S. stocks.

About how much is in each fund? What type of account is this? Is this an IRA?

. . . . .

Both USAA funds have fairly high expense ratios. Low expense ratios are critical to long-term investing performance. Seemingly small annual fees have a large cumulative impact over time. Here is a calculator you could use to estimate the impact of investing expenses. Bankrate.com, "Mutual fund fees calculator".

Also, low expense ratios are the best predictor of future performance. Morningstar, 8/9/10 . “If there's anything in the whole world of mutual funds that you can take to the bank, it's that expense ratios help you make a better decision. In every single time period and data point tested, low-cost funds beat high-cost funds.” “Investors should make expense ratios a primary test in fund selection. They are still the most dependable predictor of performance.”

"The expense ratio is the most proven predictor of future fund returns." "There are many other things to consider, but investors should make expense ratios their first or second screen." Morningstar, 5/5/18.

. . . . .

Do you have any other employees in your business? If not then you can set up a solo 401k plan.

Since you are self-employed you could consider using a SEP IRA, SIMPLE IRA, or individual (solo) 401k. Vanguard, small-business plans,"Compare plans". That link has a nice table comparing the features (like contribution limits, amount of paperwork required, etc.) of the three types of plans.

Do you have any employees in your business? If so, how many?

Both Fidelity and Schwab also offer the same types of plans. Fidelity "Retirement plans for small businesses ". Schwab, "Small business retirement plans".

The College Investor (12/11/2017), "Comparing The Most Popular Solo 401k Options".

The Bogleheads' wiki has articles on each type of plan. Boglehead's wiki, "SEP IRA". Boglehead's wiki, "SIMPLE IRA". Boglehead's wiki, "Solo 401k Plan".

. . . . .

Here are methods you can use to estimate your federal tax bracket. First estimate your "taxable income". Moneychimp, "Tax Calculator". Or if your income etc. is fairly consistent from year to year, then look at line 43 on your 1040 tax return for last year for your "taxable income". Then use your "taxable income" to estimate your "tax bracket". Moneychimp, "Federal Tax Brackets".
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Topic Author
mas00
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:30 pm

USSCX: science & tech fund, Market value 6.5K USGRX: growth &Income Fund, Market Value 42K
This is no special account it is a normal taxable brokerage account.
The gains in dollars for this year total is 7K est. 5K for USGRX and 2K USSCX.

I also just got some advice that I should roll over this account to Vangaurd. USAA stocks are a dud, high expense ratios, however I have just been told my account is strickly a USAA mutual funds account and NOT a brokerage account so I can't exchange or purchase any other funds with it just USAAs However, Schwab just recently bought USAA accounts so I'm not really sure how things are going to work.

I'm 22% tax bracket for 2019. No I don't own a business. no employee none of that, although I may file as a sole proprietor or LLC this year but it will still be just for me. Vangaurd, Fidelity and Schwab solo 401K's are pretty shit too, I've researched i hear E-Trade has a great one.

I don't want a SEP IRA or Simple I already have a Roth, but I think the best like you said would be a solo 401k

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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:21 pm

mas00 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:30 pm
USSCX: science & tech fund, Market value 6.5K USGRX: growth &Income Fund, Market Value 42K
This is no special account it is a normal taxable brokerage account.
The gains in dollars for this year total is 7K est. 5K for USGRX and 2K USSCX.
What are the unrealized capital gains in each fund?


I also just got some advice that I should roll over this account to Vangaurd. USAA stocks are a dud, high expense ratios, however I have just been told my account is strickly a USAA mutual funds account and NOT a brokerage account so I can't exchange or purchase any other funds with it just USAAs However, Schwab just recently bought USAA accounts so I'm not really sure how things are going to work.
Since the account is not an IRA, you don't do a "roll over". You just transfer the mutual funds in-kind to a different fund firm, or sell the funds and transfer the cash to the different fund firm.


I'm 22% tax bracket for 2019. No I don't own a business. no employee none of that, although I may file as a sole proprietor or LLC this year but it will still be just for me. Vangaurd, Fidelity and Schwab solo 401K's are pretty shit too, I've researched i hear E-Trade has a great one.

I don't want a SEP IRA or Simple I already have a Roth, but I think the best like you said would be a solo 401k
What features do you want in a solo 401k?

Why do you say that Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab solo 401ks are not good?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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mas00
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:37 pm

What are the unrealized capital gains in each fund?
USGRX: $4,201.00
USSCX: $1,855.15

And by roll over, yes I meant transfer the funds to a taxable Vanguard Account, sorry my language usage is not specifically correct, still new to this.

What features do you want in a solo 401k?

Why do you say that Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab solo 401ks are not good?
I'm debating whether to file a sole proprietor or make an LLC/S-Corp, but I think you need to make at least 75K for a LLC so I just may have to S.P. Vanguard's solo 401k doesn't allow rollovers from other plans and charges annual fees for each fund you hold in it unless you're over $50k in assets.

Fidelity's solo 401k doesn't have a Roth option, which some people want, and you can't fund it via bank transfer, only via check, so it's not great either.

Schwab doesn't offer a Roth option, only accepts contributions via check, and doesn't allow IRA rollovers (which matters if part of the goal is getting rid of a traditional IRA in order to do backdoor Roths), so it's also poor.

I have researched Ameritrade and etrade are the best for solo 401k. I want a 401k that allows after-tax contributions and Roth conversions “mega backdoor”. Problem is self employment tax is high, then there is capital gaines tax, etc.

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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:45 pm

mas00 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:37 pm
What are the unrealized capital gains in each fund?
USGRX: $4,201.00
USSCX: $1,855.15

And by roll over, yes I meant transfer the funds to a taxable Vanguard Account, sorry my language usage is not specifically correct, still new to this.
I suggest selling the funds and transferring the cash to a taxable account at a low cost provider like Vanguard or Fidelity. There will be income tax liability.

mas00 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:37 pm
What features do you want in a solo 401k?

Why do you say that Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab solo 401ks are not good?
I'm debating whether to file a sole proprietor or make an LLC/S-Corp, but I think you need to make at least 75K for a LLC so I just may have to S.P. Vanguard's solo 401k doesn't allow rollovers from other plans and charges annual fees for each fund you hold in it unless you're over $50k in assets.

Fidelity's solo 401k doesn't have a Roth option, which some people want, and you can't fund it via bank transfer, only via check, so it's not great either.

Schwab doesn't offer a Roth option, only accepts contributions via check, and doesn't allow IRA rollovers (which matters if part of the goal is getting rid of a traditional IRA in order to do backdoor Roths), so it's also poor.

I have researched Ameritrade and etrade are the best for solo 401k. I want a 401k that allows after-tax contributions and Roth conversions “mega backdoor”. Problem is self employment tax is high, then there is capital gaines tax, etc.
I believe that the Vanguard account service fee is waived if you sign up for e-delivery.

If you want both a Roth option and incoming rollovers then E*Trade may be useful for a solo 401k.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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mas00
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 am


I suggest selling the funds and transferring the cash to a taxable account at a low cost provider like Vanguard or Fidelity. There will be income tax liability.
Here's a whopper, I just called USAA and I got sent to "Victory Capital" apparently they are the middle man who know hold my mutual funds, and sometime this summer it will become a Schwab account. Now I just need to do some more research and see if Schwab is better than Vangaurd. I'd rather to get a head of the ball, open up a Schwab account and put my funds in there already if it's eventually going to happen.

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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:03 pm

mas00 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 am

I suggest selling the funds and transferring the cash to a taxable account at a low cost provider like Vanguard or Fidelity. There will be income tax liability.
Here's a whopper, I just called USAA and I got sent to "Victory Capital" apparently they are the middle man who know hold my mutual funds, and sometime this summer it will become a Schwab account. Now I just need to do some more research and see if Schwab is better than Vangaurd. I'd rather to get a head of the ball, open up a Schwab account and put my funds in there already if it's eventually going to happen.
Although Vanguard is my personal preference, Schwab is a good fund firm and brokerage to use.

Schwab offers some good index funds with low expense ratios, and index ETFs. Wiki article, "Charles Schwab".

In my opinion, at Schwab the better funds to use include:
1) Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWTSX);
2) Schwab International Index Fund (developed markets only) (SWISX); and
3) Schwab US Aggregate Bond Index Fund (SWAGX)
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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mas00
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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by mas00 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:56 pm

Although Vanguard is my personal preference, Schwab is a good fund firm and brokerage to use.

Schwab offers some good index funds with low expense ratios, and index ETFs. Wiki article, "Charles Schwab".

In my opinion, at Schwab the better funds to use include:
1) Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWTSX);
2) Schwab International Index Fund (developed markets only) (SWISX); and
3) Schwab US Aggregate Bond Index Fund (SWAGX)

I came up with the same ETF's in my search. Thank You very much for all the advice you have provided me and for what it is worth, if I wasted your time, my apologies. I never took the reigns of my USAA account because I never understand how MF, or ETF's stocks work. Glad I called and got all this information or else I would've never know about my account being purchased by Schwab. I never have time to understand this stuff, but I've ha some time to read and research recently, and I'm also getting older trying to prioritize my future. I know I'm late to the game, but better late than never. :oops:

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the extra cash I have either invest in individual stocks or like you mentioned solo 401K which seems like a lot of work considering I would have to do an S-Corp, because I'd like to protect my assets from another person "just in case".

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Re: Just opened Roth IRA TRF or 50/50 portolfio?

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:50 pm

mas00 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:56 pm
Although Vanguard is my personal preference, Schwab is a good fund firm and brokerage to use.

Schwab offers some good index funds with low expense ratios, and index ETFs. Wiki article, "Charles Schwab".

In my opinion, at Schwab the better funds to use include:
1) Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWTSX);
2) Schwab International Index Fund (developed markets only) (SWISX); and
3) Schwab US Aggregate Bond Index Fund (SWAGX)

I came up with the same ETF's in my search. Thank You very much for all the advice you have provided me and for what it is worth, if I wasted your time, my apologies. I never took the reigns of my USAA account because I never understand how MF, or ETF's stocks work. Glad I called and got all this information or else I would've never know about my account being purchased by Schwab. I never have time to understand this stuff, but I've ha some time to read and research recently, and I'm also getting older trying to prioritize my future. I know I'm late to the game, but better late than never. :oops:

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the extra cash I have either invest in individual stocks or like you mentioned solo 401K which seems like a lot of work considering I would have to do an S-Corp, because I'd like to protect my assets from another person "just in case".
From the Boglehead's wiki, "Solo 401k Plan": "You can qualify if your business is organized as a sole proprietorship, a partnership, or a corporation (including both subchapter S and C corporations)."
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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