Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

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inbox788
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by inbox788 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:42 pm

Microsoft milked XP users who needed support and they'll likely profit handsomely on 7.

Navy pays Microsoft $9 million a year for Windows XP
https://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/techno ... index.html

Navy Accelerates Migration to Windows 7
https://www.doncio.navy.mil/CHIPS/Artic ... px?ID=5513

Wonder how much they'll be paying for Windows 7 support.

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/operatin ... t-january/
https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/featu ... r-a-price/

dumbmoney
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by dumbmoney » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:13 pm

Win7->Win10 upgrades are still free (unofficially - Microsoft is silent about it). If you want something more stable, there's Ubuntu LTS (5 years of support, versus 6-12 months for Windows 10 before the next mandatory upgrade).
I am pleased to report that the invisible forces of destruction have been unmasked, marking a turning point chapter when the fraudulent and speculative winds are cast into the inferno of extinction.

CFM300
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by CFM300 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:05 am

I just upgraded two five-year-old Dell Latitude laptops to Windows 10, for free. There are many articles online that explain how to do this.

I made sure than my Windows 7 installation was validated, then did the Windows 10 upgrade, and then validated that installation.

Once your Windows 10 installation is validated, you can do a clean installation with no need for a product key.

That's what I did. After I removed some bloat and changed some update and privacy settings, Windows 10 has been great.

Trism
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Trism » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am

inbox788 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:42 pm
Microsoft milked XP users who needed support and they'll likely profit handsomely on 7.

Navy pays Microsoft $9 million a year for Windows XP
https://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/techno ... index.html

Navy Accelerates Migration to Windows 7
https://www.doncio.navy.mil/CHIPS/Artic ... px?ID=5513

Wonder how much they'll be paying for Windows 7 support.

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/operatin ... t-january/
https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/featu ... r-a-price/
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.

TravelGeek
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am

Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.
The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Trism » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:47 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.
The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.
If OS providers supported every OS version "for free" forever, an OS license would cost three hundred million dollars (give or take).

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.
The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.
How long should the warranty for product defects be?

stlutz
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by stlutz » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:39 am

W10 is the first Microsoft operating system I've ever run that works as well a couple of years after install as it did at first. Win 3.1, 95, 2000, XP, W7 all accumulated problems, started throwing GPFs, and slowed down over time. W10 works great.

I'm submitting this post on an "older machine with 4GB of RAM and a 5400 hard drive" that I upgraded from W7 as opposed to doing a clean install. The machine isn't snappy, but it wasn't with W7 either.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:19 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am
TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.
The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.
How long should the warranty for product defects be?
For as long as such defects exist. None of us paid for a defective product.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

TravelGeek
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:29 pm

Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:47 am
If OS providers supported every OS version "for free" forever, an OS license would cost three hundred million dollars (give or take).
Well, they could also just build better quality products to begin with :)

As a software engineer, I am often embarrassed by the quality of products delivered to paying customers and the acceptance of flaws as “state of the art”.

And in the enterprise world customers pay significant annual support fees for the privilege of getting bug fixes for out-of-the-box defects :annoyed
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am
How long should the warranty for product defects be?
It’s an interesting question. What requirements should there be for software vendors to fix reported/discovered defects in a timely fashion?

Anyway, back to Win 7 - we have a couple of old laptops that we rarely use. I will probably just switch them to Linux or retire them.

tibbitts
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:59 pm

samsoes wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:19 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am
TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.
The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.
How long should the warranty for product defects be?
For as long as such defects exist. None of us paid for a defective product.
Do other products have indefinite warranties for product defects? As it is the defects warranty is already for the "life of the product", and at least now when you purchase software you often have a defined lifetime provided by the manufacturer, such as "10 years after introduction" or some similar, known timeframe.

tibbitts
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:04 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:29 pm
Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:47 am
If OS providers supported every OS version "for free" forever, an OS license would cost three hundred million dollars (give or take).
Well, they could also just build better quality products to begin with :)

As a software engineer, I am often embarrassed by the quality of products delivered to paying customers and the acceptance of flaws as “state of the art”.

And in the enterprise world customers pay significant annual support fees for the privilege of getting bug fixes for out-of-the-box defects :annoyed
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am
How long should the warranty for product defects be?
It’s an interesting question. What requirements should there be for software vendors to fix reported/discovered defects in a timely fashion?

Anyway, back to Win 7 - we have a couple of old laptops that we rarely use. I will probably just switch them to Linux or retire them.
They could possibly build better products, but not perfect products, so the question would remain. In the software world, if a developer waited to release a product until it was closer to perfect, competitors would release a less perfect product and capture the market, because nobody will wait to adopt a technology until it's (nearly) perfected.

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samsoes
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:09 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:59 pm
samsoes wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:19 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am
TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 am
"Milked?"

That's like saying someone is getting milked for repairs on a 14-year-old car whose warranty expired in 2008.
The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.
How long should the warranty for product defects be?
For as long as such defects exist. None of us paid for a defective product.
Do other products have indefinite warranties for product defects?
I don't know. I don't know about you, but I don't like buying a defective product. For-profit companies should fix defective products which they've accepted payment for. If I want to buy junk, I'll go to a garage sale or a flea market.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

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Sheepdog
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Sheepdog » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:19 pm

I still use Windows XP which is in a Dell Desktop from 2004. I do not use it for internet use. I use it daily for all financial matters using Money 2002. I copy all of those considerable files (22 years or more) twice a week via an Easy Computer Transfer Cable to a 2010 Toshiba laptop using Windows 7 (which is the one I am using here), so I have 2 good Money copies. (yes, the laptop is also backed up.)
I am going to purchase a Windows 10 Desktop of some make, when or if I can decide which brand and is simple for a senior to use, and I hope I can still install the Money 2002 there. Suggestion?)
Just because it isn't your fault doesn't mean it isn't your responsibility....Josh Reid Jones

inbox788
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by inbox788 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Didn't realize using the term milk would get such a strong reaction.

As a BH and though TSM a Microsoft stockholder, milking is a good business (and so is the related razorblade model). Buy the cow, sell the milk for as long as she produces, and if she lives a long and productive life, that much more profit. Not withstanding warranties, car companies milk their parts business as long as they can.

I've always found the idea of dumping surplus, such as milk, very troubling. To me it's crop destruction and thinning taken too far, but it seems more and more tech companies are taking analogous strategies by neglecting or destroying old products (even good ones) to sell new ones.
http://time.com/4530659/farmers-dump-milk-glut-surplus/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinning

As a customer, I'm suffering from subscription fatigue. It's hard enough dealing with all the changes, that the constant change simply for the extraction of maximum profit that airlines have mastered has spread to other industries. Even a simple purchase sometimes requires answering 20 question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdKPDsYA7o
TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:29 pm
It’s an interesting question. What requirements should there be for software vendors to fix reported/discovered defects in a timely fashion?

Anyway, back to Win 7 - we have a couple of old laptops that we rarely use. I will probably just switch them to Linux or retire them.
Most old laptops running Win 7 have HHDs. My limited experience is Win 10 doesn't play well and really needs an SSD, but upgrading older laptops isn't really worth it (you might do it if you happen to have an old SSD lying around and it fits).

The bloat on websites made me look for browsers that would take me back to the way things were, and I came across NetSurf.
https://www.netsurf-browser.org/about/screenshots/
After using it a little, I realized there's no going back for me, and I just need to get with the times. I'm even looking to upgrade my few year old Chromebook as web site demands grow and the hardware just seems to get more sluggish. I'm also in need to upgrade my sluggish Windows 10 Laptop. But for now, I limp along with them, and might thin out my electronic devices instead, abandoning Windows altogether.
Last edited by inbox788 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Rob5TCP » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Sheepdog wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:19 pm
I still use Windows XP which is in a Dell Desktop from 2004. I do not use it for internet use. I use it daily for all financial matters using Money 2002. I copy all of those considerable files (22 years or more) twice a week via an Easy Computer Transfer Cable to a 2010 Toshiba laptop using Windows 7 (which is the one I am using here), so I have 2 good Money copies. (yes, the laptop is also backed up.)
I am going to purchase a Windows 10 Desktop of some make, when or if I can decide which brand and is simple for a senior to use, and I hope I can still install the Money 2002 there. Suggestion?)
I am using MS Money (the free sunset edition) and it has been working nicely on Windows 10 for the past year. I've had one issue and a backup cleared that up. If you setup the desktop correctly, it has many similarities to 7.

If you stay with 2002 this might help
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 1095ddf867

TravelGeek
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:37 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:09 pm
Didn't realize using the term milk would get such a strong reaction.

As a BH and though TSM a Microsoft stockholder, milking is a good business (and so is the related razorblade model). Buy the cow, sell the milk for as long as she produces, and if she lives a long and productive life, that much more profit. Not withstanding warranties, car companies milk their parts business as long as they can.
And after the warranty is up, I can take my car to a neighborhood repair place and get maintenance and repairs done for decades. Maybe software companies should release their source code to enable third party maintenance when they decide they cannot support the product anymore? :twisted: (more likely, though, as cars become more and more rolling computers with seats the amount of 3rd party maintenance will become an issue there, too... looking at you, Tesla)
As a customer, I'm suffering from subscription fatigue. It's hard enough dealing with all the changes, that the constant change simply for the extraction of maximum profit that airlines have mastered has spread to other industries.
Yes, same here (and I say that, having designed and built cloud products rented to customers via subscriptions). I find that it is not financially beneficial to me.
Most old laptops running Win 7 have HHDs. My limited experience is Win 10 doesn't play well and really needs an SSD, but upgrading older laptops isn't really worth it (you might do it if you happen to have an old SSD lying around and it fits).
One of the laptops is definitely too old for Win10 (remember those HP netbooks from maybe a decade ago)? It serves no real purpose at this time. Time to retire it unless I find an old SSD and find some use in one of my home automation projects (SSD for silence, not for speed). The other one is a Thinkpad. It has a small SSD. It needs a new battery soon as well. It is my wife’s machine, but she uses her iPad for virtually everything, so its main mission in life is for me to boot it up once a month to install the latest security fixes. Upgrading it to Win10 doesn’t seem worthwhile - the software my wife uses very occasionally is MS Word (from Office 2007) isn’t supported anymore either.
But for now, I limp along with them, and might thin out my electronic devices instead, abandoning Windows altogether.
Switching to MacOS (MacBook Pro) in my case has significantly reduced the replacement rate for laptops.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Sheepdog » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:26 pm

Rob5TCP wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:09 pm


I am using MS Money (the free sunset edition) and it has been working nicely on Windows 10 for the past year. I've had one issue and a backup cleared that up. If you setup the desktop correctly, it has many similarities to 7.

If you stay with 2002 this might help
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 1095ddf867
Thank you
Just because it isn't your fault doesn't mean it isn't your responsibility....Josh Reid Jones

tibbitts
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:25 pm

samsoes wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:09 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:59 pm
samsoes wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:19 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 am
TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 am


The difference, to me at least, is that car maintenance generally deals with wear and tear of a mechanical product while all those security fixes over the 10 year lifetime of Windows 7 are essentially product defects.
How long should the warranty for product defects be?
For as long as such defects exist. None of us paid for a defective product.
Do other products have indefinite warranties for product defects?
I don't know. I don't know about you, but I don't like buying a defective product. For-profit companies should fix defective products which they've accepted payment for. If I want to buy junk, I'll go to a garage sale or a flea market.
But realistically you know if they fixed defects that didn't show up for more than ten years, that they would no longer make a profit.

If the software does 100% of what I purchase it for when I buy it, rationally I wouldn't say it's junk only because a defect comes to light many years later, possibly because of an interaction with other software that couldn't have been anticipated at the time the original software was designed. If the defect is found within ten years, it's fixed without cost to me. It seems like the software industry is far better about fixing defects without additional charges for much longer than most other industries.

finite_difference
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by finite_difference » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:40 pm

Over the years, Microsoft has earned my respect. Although I am a proponent of Linux, Microsoft has always treated poor students fairly (pirates), makes a solid office product (including for Mac), and has not had any privacy scandals.

I trust Microsoft more than I trust Google with my data.

So to those of us with old PCs, let’s upgrade and reward Microsoft a little bit for their hard work and long support cycles. Won’t hurt to help the PC market a little bit as well. Make sure the new PC has an SSD in it.

However a couple more years of support for Windows 7 wouldn’t hurt ;)
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

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Electron
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Electron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:44 pm

I just upgraded a six year old computer with i5-4440 processor and it seems to be working very well with Windows 10. I followed the zdnet article referenced earlier.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how ... 0-upgrade/

The installation came up activated with digital license.

One surprise was that I also tried a second installation booting the Windows 10 iso file from flash drive. This alternative did not preserve my Windows 7 files and settings but it did provide a clean install. The surprise was that the installation accepted my Windows 7 Product Key and once again came up activated with digital license.
Electron

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by rivercrosser » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:46 pm

Electron wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:44 pm
I just upgraded a six year old computer with i5-4440 processor and it seems to be working very well with Windows 10. I followed the zdnet article referenced earlier.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how ... 0-upgrade/

The installation came up activated with digital license.

One surprise was that I also tried a second installation booting the Windows 10 iso file from flash drive. This alternative did not preserve my Windows 7 files and settings but it did provide a clean install. The surprise was that the installation accepted my Windows 7 Product Key and once again came up activated with digital license.
I'm running it on a 11 year old HP with no problems. Upgrading brother in laws 9 year GateWay from Windows 7 to 10 last week. No problem. As long as you have a legit license on computer to start with it will upgrade. You just have to go to Microsoft site and get install tool.

Conch55
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Conch55 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:01 pm

Another last minute holdout for the Windows 7 EOL upgrade but I successfully made the change yesterday. Other than a microphone driver requiring a manual installation things went smoothly. I opted for the upgrade PC option after downloading the Media Creation Tool. My laptop is a 2011 Dell Latitude with a recently added SSD. So far, so good.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by anakinskywalker » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:38 pm

I followed the exact same steps (boot from USB) on two Win 7 laptops. On the first one everything worked. The second and more important (powerful) one failed with "Operation system not found." (yes it said operation, not operating) after the first restart. I tried changing the boot order, running diagnostics, run chkdsk, various other such "fixes" mentioned in several dozen websites on Win10 installation problems, reformat HDD, recreate the Win10 installation tool and try again from scratch, etc etc. Nothing worked.

Had to go back to Win 7. Luckily I was able to find the Win7 installation disk and it worked. Took another entire day to install all drivers and windows updates, just to get back to where I was before I tried installing Win10 on this laptop.

Wasted several days on this whole Win10 misadventure. Valuable weekend downtime. Life is too short for this. Not happy with Microsoft at the moment.

Anakin

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Cubicle » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:06 am

I thought this would be kinda relevant. As with any end of life software, be alert. Possibly an exploit to be revealed Tuesday, 01-14-2020.

Rumors mount that a major bug could be disclosed on the day Microsoft ends support for Windows 7

Edit: fixed url link
Last edited by Cubicle on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by rh00p » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:53 am

https://www.techradar.com/news/ahead-of ... -to-get-it

After reading the above story regarding some of the BS behind the update I drank the Kool-Aid and clicked the download link before bedtime. When I woke up this morning I had Windows 10. Played with it a little before work and everything seems good. I suppose waiting till the last minute will give you the most stable version.
Preparing for the worst. Hoping for the best.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by TheEternalVortex » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:18 am

It’s easy enough to turn off all the annoying stuff (no telemetry, cortana, or start menu ads) and after that it’s arguably the best windows ever.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:29 am

Realistically if you refuse to click on links in your e-mail, don't insert random USB sticks into your computer, and don't run the OS exposed directly to the Internet (instead being behind a firewall, which you almost certainly are), then Windows 7 will continue to be fine for a while.

The realistic limiting function will be that the web in general, and specific sites, evolve in such a way that browsers must be reworked to render new apps properly. You'll then find browser vendors won't update their software to run on Windows 7 since it's well beyond EOL. But that is at least a year away, probably 2 and perhaps even more. New versions of stuff like Quicken may refuse to run at first, although likely a couple of tweaks will keep them going for another year or two. But at some point, probably 2022-ish, you'll find a lot of new software simply won't install, and that marks the point at which you need to make a real choice: do you remain versions and versions behind on programs, or do you update?

Despite the fearmongering, the likelihood of you catching some zero-day exploit randomly through an unsolicited connection that did not occur because you clicked a link or somehow allowed something to execute is near zero. (It's not absolutely zero, and the bigger your internal network the further from zero you are.) Then again, that likelihood is not zero with Windows 10 either. If you find yourself unable to tell phishing emails apart, you regularly click links in e-mails because you just can't help yourself, or you trade USB sticks frequently with other folks, then you are at risk and should upgrade to Windows 10 and get decent protection like OneDrive's ransomware protection or some type of additional antivirus layer.

Sorry, but that's the real story. I find Windows 10 to be inferior to Windows 7 from a quality/stability standpoint and will remain on 7 for the foreseeable future, at which point I will likely go to a Mac or a Linux flavor. And I've spent 25 years in IT, many of them closely following IT security.
Last edited by 8foot7 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

mpnret
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by mpnret » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:44 am

Hard to believe the free upgrade is still available. I just upgraded my 10 year old Sony VAIO All in One yesterday without a hitch. I upgraded memory and also to a SSD a few years ago so it wasn't completly 10 years old. Only small issue was a screen driver wasn't available so I had to use a Microsoft generic flat panel driver. Because of that I had to select a close enough screen resolution and don't have a screen brightness adjustment or sleep mode (only hibernate). Both of these are part of the driver. There is a work around but it involves a lot of editing of system files. I'll get to it sometime. I still prefer Windows 7 but 10 is good. I kept my spare drive on Windows 7 so I can boot into that at any time.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:51 am

I noticed nothing. Of course I have windows updates turned off. I got tired of updates making programs and games I use unusable and me going off and searching for the update that screwed it all up.

Also not a fan of 10 or 8 or Vista.
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Electron » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:50 pm

anakinskywalker wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:38 pm
I followed the exact same steps (boot from USB) on two Win 7 laptops. On the first one everything worked. The second and more important (powerful) one failed with "Operation system not found."
Sorry to hear of the major difficulties and time spent. It's not clear if you booted the USB drive or ran setup.exe within the ISO file after booting into Windows 7. Here is the key text from the zdnet article:

"After the download is complete, double-click the ISO file to mount it and open a File Explorer window; or, if you chose the option to create a bootable drive, open the USB flash drive in File Explorer and run Setup from there. Note that you cannot boot from the newly created USB drive or DVD to perform an upgrade. You must run the Windows 10 setup program from your currently installed and activated copy of Windows."

https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how ... 0-upgrade/

I upgraded my machine as described by booting Windows 7 and then running setup in the ISO file. In my case the ISO file was in a flash drive plugged into the computer.

As an experiment I also tried booting the flash drive. This did work for me but with two key differences. I had to enter a Product Key and the installation did not keep any files or settings. It was basically a clean install. The original Windows folder was preserved as Windows.old. One surprise was that the installation accepted my Windows 7 Product Key.
Electron

anakinskywalker
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by anakinskywalker » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:05 pm

You're right Electron. The ZDNet article is incorrect when it says you must run setup.exe from within a running instance of Win7. I followed the second approach as that was recommended in a microsoft support forum article/answer.

I followed the exact same steps on both laptops. The process worked on one laptop and not on the other.

Anakin

LiterallyIronic
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by LiterallyIronic » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:08 pm

TheEternalVortex wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:18 am
It’s easy enough to turn off all the annoying stuff (no telemetry, cortana, or start menu ads) and after that it’s arguably the best windows ever.
Got links for instructions on turning all that stuff off? I'm holding out on Windows 7 because of that stuff: telemetry, Cortana, Windows Store, and forced updates. My work computer is Windows 10 and even if I kill Cortana in the task manager, it just comes right back. How do I completely remove the things I listed? I am considering Windows 10 LTSC, though. Definitely going to back up my data today.

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Electron
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Electron » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:16 pm

anakinskywalker wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:05 pm
The ZDNet article is incorrect when it says you must run setup.exe from within a running instance of Win7.Anakin
The zdnet article seemed correct for my computer since I wanted to keep all files and settings and didn't want a clean install. I think the term upgrade implies keeping files and settings. My system is a desktop built by a local computer shop running Windows 7 Home Premium.
Electron

TravelGeek
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 pm

Cubicle wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:06 am
I thought this would be kinda relevant. As with any end of life software, be alert. Possibly an exploit to be revealed Tuesday, 01-14-2020.

Rumors mount that a major bug could be disclosed on the day Microsoft ends support for Windows 7
Double-check that link - it's a story titled "The Healthcare Industry is Letting Surgeons Behave like Muggers". :)

Anyway, looks like the NSA found a major bug... alas, in Windows 10 :)

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/14/mic ... und-by-nsa

Makefile
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Makefile » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:52 pm

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:08 pm

Got links for instructions on turning all that stuff off? I'm holding out on Windows 7 because of that stuff: telemetry, Cortana, Windows Store, and forced updates. My work computer is Windows 10 and even if I kill Cortana in the task manager, it just comes right back. How do I completely remove the things I listed? I am considering Windows 10 LTSC, though. Definitely going to back up my data today.
If you're command line oriented, I recommend this script: https://github.com/Disassembler0/Win10- ... tup-Script

I'm not sure you can get rid of the Cortana process entirely. But that script will at least hide it in the UI if you ask it to disable Cortana.

rj342
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by rj342 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:04 pm

FYI, anyone hesitant to move to Windows 10 in art because of UI changes...

Stardock Software makes a tool called Start10 that lets you make 10s Start Menu look and work more like Windows 7's.
IIRC about $5.00
Very well regarded, been around for years. When I had Windows 8, which tried to do away with Start Menu completely in favor of forcing a touch screen friendly interface layout on desktop users :oops: , I happily used their Start 8 for the same purpose.

https://www.stardock.com/products/start10/

anakinskywalker
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by anakinskywalker » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:35 pm

Electron wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:16 pm
anakinskywalker wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:05 pm
The ZDNet article is incorrect when it says you must run setup.exe from within a running instance of Win7.Anakin
The zdnet article seemed correct for my computer since I wanted to keep all files and settings and didn't want a clean install. I think the term upgrade implies keeping files and settings. My system is a desktop built by a local computer shop running Windows 7 Home Premium.
Ah I see what you mean, Electron. Yes you're right.

On second thought, it sure would be quite disturbing if you weren't right, given we're talking about Electronics after all. :D

I sure would trust a light-footed hard-working Electron on these matters way more than pretty much anyone else -- certainly not those fat lazy Protons or do-nothin Neutrons!

Anakin

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Poorman
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Poorman » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:54 pm

rj342 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:04 pm
FYI, anyone hesitant to move to Windows 10 in art because of UI changes...

Stardock Software makes a tool called Start10 that lets you make 10s Start Menu look and work more like Windows 7's.
IIRC about $5.00
Very well regarded, been around for years. When I had Windows 8, which tried to do away with Start Menu completely in favor of forcing a touch screen friendly interface layout on desktop users :oops: , I happily used their Start 8 for the same purpose.

https://www.stardock.com/products/start10/
I upgraded to 10 for free years ago when end of 7 was announced. I used Start10 for awhile, but now windows 10 can look like 7. No need for Start10

Buccaneer82
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Buccaneer82 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:44 pm

It took several hours to upgrade 7 pro to 10 today but done till 2025 yay!

moshe
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Location: Boston, MA

Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by moshe » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:57 pm

CardinalRule wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:49 am
iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.
I agree with this.
How soon they forget.... Windows ME was ^^&&*@#&~!!
My money has no emotions. ~Moshe | | I'm the world's greatest expert on my own opinion. ~Bruce Williams

Exterous
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Exterous » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:23 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:29 am
Despite the fearmongering, the likelihood of you catching some zero-day exploit randomly through an unsolicited connection that did not occur because you clicked a link or somehow allowed something to execute is near zero. (It's not absolutely zero, and the bigger your internal network the further from zero you are.) Then again, that likelihood is not zero with Windows 10 either. If you find yourself unable to tell phishing emails apart, you regularly click links in e-mails because you just can't help yourself, or you trade USB sticks frequently with other folks, then you are at risk and should upgrade to Windows 10 and get decent protection like OneDrive's ransomware protection or some type of additional antivirus layer.
It's been my experience that many people are not great judges of their ability to practice safe computing habits. I've seen many people who are very vocal about their safety habits fall victim to phising (both malicious and educational). Even IT people, although that tends to be more habit based as Steve normally sends links for them to click on, which is quickly followed by an "oh shit" moment.

No judgment here on any stated skills but I'd err on updating especially while it's still free.
LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:08 pm
TheEternalVortex wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:18 am
It’s easy enough to turn off all the annoying stuff (no telemetry, cortana, or start menu ads) and after that it’s arguably the best windows ever.
Got links for instructions on turning all that stuff off? I'm holding out on Windows 7 because of that stuff: telemetry, Cortana, Windows Store, and forced updates. My work computer is Windows 10 and even if I kill Cortana in the task manager, it just comes right back. How do I completely remove the things I listed? I am considering Windows 10 LTSC, though. Definitely going to back up my data today.
They brought telemetry to Windows 7 via a security update.

If it's Windows 10 enterprise (and I think pro) there is a GPO under Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Search that disables Cortana but you'll need admin rights. I'm a little surprised that your company didn't do that already as that seems like a fairly common practice

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Cubicle
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Cubicle » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:58 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 pm
Double-check that link - it's a story titled "The Healthcare Industry is Letting Surgeons Behave like Muggers". :)

Anyway, looks like the NSA found a major bug... alas, in Windows 10 :)

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/14/mic ... und-by-nsa
Thanks for catching that! Good thing it wasn't actually my secret stash of ETF prospectuses in provocative positions...

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Cubicle
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Cubicle » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:02 am

moshe wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:57 pm
CardinalRule wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:49 am
iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.
I agree with this.
How soon they forget.... Windows ME was ^^&&*@#&~!!
I'm having flashbacks of Windows ME now... I very much disliked Vista as well. The days of Windows NT & Windows 2000 were good days...

rj342
Posts: 632
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by rj342 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:44 pm

moshe wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:57 pm
CardinalRule wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:49 am
iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.
I agree with this.
How soon they forget.... Windows ME was ^^&&*@#&~!!
8.1 was ok, as long as you used a Start menu utility like I mentioned above.

Vista and 8 both blew chunks.

02nz
Posts: 2930
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by 02nz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:23 pm

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Have you actually used Windows 10? Which version?

Microsoft did make some mistakes with Windows 10, such as an obtrusive update process and games that would install themselves (e.g., Candy Crush Saga). But they've also listened to feedback and fixed the bad stuff much more quickly than in the days of Windows 98/ME/XP. Windows 10 in 2020 is very different from Windows 10 in 2015. It's generally fast and reliable, and it's still a free upgrade from Windows 7.

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CardinalRule
Posts: 244
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Location: United States

Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by CardinalRule » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:28 am

moshe wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:57 pm
CardinalRule wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:49 am
iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.
I agree with this.
How soon they forget.... Windows ME was ^^&&*@#&~!!
Not exactly "soon" - wasn't it like 20 years ago? :happy But yeah, it was bad.

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